In this episode, Rustam Irani sits down with SEO expert Julian Hooks to unpack the growing confusion around declining traffic, AI’s impact on search, and what higher-ed marketers should actually focus on right now. Together, they cut through the hype around AEO, GEO, and LLMs, revealing that while the discovery landscape is shifting, the fundamentals of SEO—and great marketing—are still the foundation. The conversation explores how user behavior is evolving, why attribution is getting harder, and how marketers can adapt without abandoning what already works.

Resources Mentioned

 * RGI AEO Dashboard - https://aeo.rgiconsulting.net/

Timestamps

 * 00:00 – The Problem: Traffic and conversions are declining despite doing “everything right” in SEO
 * 01:00 – Meet Julian Hooks: 20 years in SEO and deep experience in higher ed marketing
 * 04:00 – Is SEO Dead?: Why AI isn’t replacing SEO but reshaping how discovery works
 * 08:00 – AEO vs GEO vs SEO: Breaking down the terminology and what actually matters
 * 10:30 – The Attribution Problem: Why AI-driven traffic is hard to measure (but still impactful)
 * 13:00 – New Signals to Watch: Direct traffic, branded search, and behavioral shifts
 * 15:30 – AEO Measurement Framework: Visibility, share of voice, citation rate, and sentiment
 * 22:00 – How to Prioritize Efforts: 80–85% fundamentals vs 15–20% AI-specific adjustments
 * 25:00 – Content Strategy Shift: Don’t abandon long-form—just surface answers faster
 * 28:00 – Why Traffic Is Down: LLMs are capturing top-of-funnel informational queries
 * 31:00 – Higher Intent Users: Fewer visitors, but stronger conversion and engagement
 * 32:00 – Final Advice: Think holistically, focus on fundamentals, and build a great product/experience

SEO is Changing

In this episode, Rustam Irani shares a pivotal early-career moment that reshaped how he presents data, and breaks down four essential rules for delivering clear, credible, and impactful insights that drive action. 

Resources Mentioned


ChatGPT — https://chat.openai.com/
Google Gemini — https://gemini.google.com/


Timestamps
00:00 – The CEO Meeting That Changed Everything: A high-stakes presentation goes wrong and reveals a critical gap in data storytelling.
04:53 – Introduction to the 4 Rules of Presenting Data: Rustam frames the episode and the lessons learned over years of experience.
05:44 – Rule #1: Clarity and Simplicity: Why overcomplicating data loses your audience and how to present at the right level.
08:08 – Rule #2: Accuracy and Reliability: The importance of validating data, checking formulas, and spotting red flags.
09:23 – Rule #3: Tell the Story Behind the Data: Focusing on what changed, why it changed, and what it means.
10:33 – Rule #4: Use Effective Visuals: Leveraging charts, graphs, and modern tools to make insights instantly clear.
12:00 – From Reporting to Responsibility: Shifting mindset from sharing numbers to owning the narrative and outcomes.


Sent Back

In this episode, Rustam Irani sits down with Chris Shepard to unpack what it really takes to build performance-driven marketing systems that create trust, align teams, and generate measurable results. Chris shares his path from early email marketing and agency ownership to leading digital strategy in higher education, along with the lessons he’s learned about vendor collaboration, data visibility, and the practical role AI can play in modern marketing.

Resources Mentioned

 * The Prompt — Chris Shepard’s weekly AI-focused newsletter for higher education marketers - https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/the-prompt-7432956494280683520/

Timestamps

 * 0:01 - 2:43 — Intro and Chris’s marketing background
   Rustam introduces Chris Shepard and previews a conversation on digital marketing, leadership, and AI.
 * 2:44 - 8:10 — From record-label email marketing to building an agency
   Chris shares how he got started in digital marketing, taught himself website building and SEO, and grew an agency serving home-service businesses.
 * 8:11 - 13:44 — Selling the agency and moving into higher education
   Chris reflects on selling WebRocket after COVID, what he learned from building trust at scale, and why Tricoci felt like the right next chapter.
 * 13:45 - 20:07 — Why alignment and data matter more than marketing activity
   The conversation shifts to silos in higher ed, why marketing is too often treated as a cost center, and how lead, enrollment, and start data drive smarter decisions.
 * 20:08 - 29:12 — Breaking down vendor silos and building collaborative systems
   Chris explains how he manages multiple agency partners through weekly calls, biweekly strategy sessions, and annual summits that include leadership and admissions.
 * 29:13 - 35:36 — AI dashboards, automation, and the purpose behind The Prompt
   Chris describes building his own live dashboard, using AI for summaries and forecasting, and launching a newsletter to help higher ed marketers keep up with AI change.
 * 35:37 - 40:56 — Career advice for modern marketers
   Chris closes with advice on growth: show up consistently, know your numbers, deeply understand your audience, and stay curious as the industry keeps evolving.

Why They Win

In this episode, Rustam Irani sits down with longtime colleague Charlie (Vice Chancellor of Enrollment Management & CMO at Kaiser University) to unpack what it means to be a “modern CMO” in higher ed. They trace the shift from old-school, performance-first tactics to a brand-and-trust-led approach where authenticity, earned media, and mid-funnel experience matter more than ever. Along the way, they dig into how AI is changing research and decisioning, why attribution and yield tracking are still a major gap for many institutions, and what young marketers need to do to grow into real leadership.Resources Mentioned

Chat with Charlie:https://www.youtube.com/@ChatWithCharlieAndFriends/featured

Charlie Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlie-parker-94989b7/


00:01–02:24 — Welcome + “OG in the industry”: Rustam introduces Charlie and frames the episode around marketing + enrollment leadership.
02:24–06:24 — What a “modern CMO” means now: From standing out to staying a student of the game; the evolution from old media buys to today’s landscape.
06:24–13:40 — Earned media, mid-funnel, and the authenticity challenge: Why organic trust-building is the new “tip of the spear,” and how paid/organic has blurred (especially in social).
12:44–14:44 — The brand vs. performance flip: Charlie’s “triangle” view—performance as the tip, brand as the base; budgeting for reputation and the long game.
15:06–16:39 — AI as a modern CMO toolset: Charlie’s example of using Claude to generate a market study; tools without losing culture and human connection.
16:39–18:35 — Yield over volume + the attribution gap: “More inquiries isn’t the metric”; tracking marketing investment to enrollments is still missing at many institutions.
18:53–21:12 — Brand radius, zoning, and smarter geo strategy: Rustam’s “brand has a radius” idea and Charlie’s story about finding an unexpected out-of-state sweet spot by reverse-engineering graduates.
22:10–25:37 — Bringing the art back: Marketing as science + art; storytelling, belonging, and avoiding becoming a “widget creator in a human business.”
26:05–32:19 — Advice for young marketers: Put in the extra work, understand the full ecosystem, and bring solutions (not just problems—especially in the AI era).
32:42–36:02 — Enrollment isn’t just marketing + admissions: Charlie’s push to elevate financial aid training and soft skills; Rustam’s “FAM framework” alignment (finance/admissions/marketing).
37:02–38:18 — Close + how to connect: Charlie points listeners to LinkedIn; Rustam signs off with the show’s closing line.

The Modern CMO

In this episode, Rustam Irani challenges the assumption that affiliate partners are low-quality, fraudulent, or ineffective for higher-ed marketing. Drawing from firsthand attribution analysis, he reveals how more than 20% of prospective students engaged with a school through affiliate or directory sites before ever landing on the institution’s website. Rustam breaks down five key factors for evaluating affiliate partnerships—lead quality, compliance, partner selection, performance tracking, and brand reputation—while reframing affiliates not as a risky expense, but as a hidden pipeline and awareness layer that can meaningfully impact enrollment outcomes.

Resources Mentioned

 * LeadID (later Jornaya, then Verisk, now acquired by ActiveProspect)

Timestamps

 * 00:01 – The Affiliate Myth: Why many higher-ed marketers dismiss affiliates as fraud or low-intent traffic.
 * 00:38 – Attribution Discovery: The 20% insight that changed Rustam’s perspective on affiliate value.
 * 01:53 – Tracking the Ecosystem: How LeadID/Jornaya enabled cross-site visibility and anonymous user tracking.
 * 06:04 – Factor #1: Lead Quality & Qualification: Evaluating intent, demographics, custom questions, and lead scoring.
 * 08:06 – Factor #2: Compliance & Ethical Practices: FTC guidelines, traffic sources, and the risks of co-registration.
 * 10:35 – Factor #3: Partner Selection: Vetting affiliates through checklists, traffic sources, and longevity.
 * 12:03 – Factor #4: Performance Tracking & ROI Models: CPC vs. CPL, cost expectations, and enrollment targets.
 * 14:05 – Factor #5: Brand Reputation & Placement Transparency: Protecting brand standards while gaining exposure.
 * 17:08 – Reframing the Channel: Why cutting affiliates may shrink your pipeline and assisted conversions.

Affiliate Myth

In this episode, Rustam Irani welcomes AI marketing consultant and podcast host Dan Sanchez to dive deep into the role of AI in higher ed marketing. Together, they unpack the difference between AI hype and real, actionable strategies marketers can use today. Dan shares his journey into marketing, why AI has become his favorite tool, and how it empowers teams to move faster and smarter. From addressing security concerns to demystifying tools like OpenClaw and custom GPTs, this conversation offers valuable insights for higher ed leaders looking to thoughtfully integrate AI into their workflow.

Resources Mentioned:

 * AI Driven Marketer Podcast - https://www.aidrivenmarketer.com/
 * Dan Sanchez's Free Course - https://www.danchez.com/courses

Timestamps:

 * 00:00 – Rustam introduces the theme: cutting through the AI hype in higher ed marketing
 * 01:06 – Dan shares his marketing background and early adoption of AI tools
 * 03:29 – Efficiency vs. shiny object syndrome: where AI offers real value
 * 04:57 – The AI adoption curve and the dangers of lagging behind
 * 06:32 – Exploring the risks of OpenClaw and agentic AI tools
 * 10:28 – Why security is a top concern for higher ed institutions
 * 13:47 – Where to start: focusing on one core AI tool like Copilot or Gemini
 * 18:24 – What to avoid: automation tools and AI app-building traps
 * 20:27 – Power of custom GPTs and how to build secure, scalable AI workflows
 * 24:13 – AI-powered outbound: promising use cases and ethical considerations
 * 28:04 – Using mascots as AI voices for fun and authentic user experience
 * 31:36 – Dan's final advice: create dedicated AI project folders in ChatGPT

AI Hype?

In this episode, Rustam Irani shares a powerful personal experience from his time as a higher ed CMO, highlighting the hidden dangers of over communication in student marketing and admissions. He walks through a pivotal project where his team audited every piece of communication sent to students from inquiry to graduation and uncovered an overwhelming and chaotic messaging environment. Through this eye opening exercise, Rustam emphasizes the importance of aligning teams, reducing overlap, and crafting a streamlined, student centered communication strategy.

Resources Mentioned:• 

Miro Student Journey Framework - https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVK7WgQac=/?share_link_id=90885879347

Timestamps:• 00:00 – The disconnect between campaign performance and enrollment rates
• 01:30 – The chaos of overlapping campaigns across departments
• 03:00 – Launching a full audit of student communications
• 04:15 – Mapping communications in a giant conference room
• 06:30 – Realizing the sheer volume and redundancy of messaging
• 08:00 – How cross-team alignment sparked real change
• 09:20 – Rebuilding automations and streamlining messaging
• 11:00 – Navigating tough interdepartmental conversations
• 12:15 – Introducing a Miro-based framework for auditing communications
• 13:20 – Final challenge: take the first step to uncover your own opportunities

Invisible Problem

In this episode, Rustam Irani unpacks a leadership moment that blindsided him—a silent, frustrated team member and two words on a whiteboard that changed his entire approach to leading marketers. Through this story, Rustam breaks down how purpose, identity, and challenge drive performance, and why conversations always beat assumptions.

Resources Mentioned

 * AdRoll — https://www.adroll.com

Timestamps

 * 00:00–01:15 — The gut‑punch moment: Setting the stage with the harshest feedback Rustam ever received.
 * 01:15–03:41 — The silent treatment: A team member withdraws, creating tension and confusion.
 * 03:41–05:26 — Leadership crossroads: Choosing between ignoring the issue or addressing it head‑on.
 * 05:26–07:32 — The whiteboard moment: "Analyst" vs. "Scientist" — identity becomes the root issue.
 * 07:32–10:52 — Reframing the role: Rustam explores new challenges and hands over a high‑impact project involving DSP remarketing.
 * 10:52–14:11 — Lessons learned: Purpose, identity, challenging work, and the power of real conversations.
 * 14:11–16:25 — Final reflections: Encouragement for leaders to rethink how they engage team members and handle tension.

When I Got Schooled

In this episode, Rustam Irani unpacks one of the biggest wake-up calls in his marketing career—the campaign that looked flawless on every dashboard but failed to deliver real-world results. He shares the story of a “perfect” set of ads that hit every metric yet missed a critical human insight: students couldn’t physically get to class. Through the now-famous Bus Route Story, Rustam shows how collaboration across finance, admissions, and marketing (the FAM framework) uncovered the truth and led to more empathetic, student-centered solutions.

Timestamps

 * 00:00 – 01:00 | When perfect dashboards deceive: the illusion of success
 * 01:00 – 03:30 | The setup: campaigns, demographics, and the ideal healthcare student
 * 03:30 – 06:00 | Data looks perfect—but something deeper isn’t adding up
 * 06:00 – 08:00 | Enter the FAM Framework: connecting marketing, admissions, and finance
 * 08:00 – 10:30 | The aha moment: transportation barriers behind the enrollment drop
 * 10:30 – 13:30 | Turning insights into action: rethinking schedules, hybrid options, and messaging
 * 13:30 – 16:00 | Lessons learned: what data can’t tell you about your students
 * 16:00 – 17:45 | Rustam’s final reflection: where true ROI really lives



Blinded By Data

In this episode, Rustam Irani introduces the FAM framework—Finance, Admissions, and Marketing—and explains how aligning these three departments can dramatically improve enrollment outcomes for higher education institutions. Drawing from his extensive experience in higher ed marketing and leadership, Rustam shares real-world examples, practical tips, and insights on how to dismantle silos, streamline communication, and build cohesive strategies that serve a common goal.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – The misalignment problem in higher ed despite individual KPIs being met
• 00:28 – Introduction to the FAM Framework: Finance, Admissions, and Marketing
• 01:49 – Rustam's background and experience in higher ed marketing
• 02:36 – Real-world success through alignment at a high-growth institution
• 03:53 – Why shared budgeting and top-down alignment matter
• 05:31 – Understanding lead volume and internal operational needs
• 06:37 – Why treating FAM like a family drives performance
• 07:10 – The power of cross-departmental training and collaboration
• 09:08 – Transparent campaign communication with admissions and finance
• 10:13 – Joint planning for budget, targets, and performance
• 11:47 – Importance of having one integrated system for tracking
• 13:26 – Creating a cohesive message and student experience
• 14:41 – Shared goals, systems, and data across FAM
• 16:01 – Daily dashboard visibility as a unifying tool
• 17:29 – Pushing for better tracking and accountability
• 18:22 – Final takeaway: Don’t start with ads, start with alignment

The FAM Framework

ROI University is the podcast for higher-ed marketers ready to lead meaningful change. Hosted by Rustam Irani, this solo series helps you unlock higher enrollment, deeper student connection, and the internal clarity to do your boldest work. It’s not just about tactics, it’s about becoming the kind of leader your institution needs. Get ready to raise outcomes across the board: for your students, your team, and yourself.

ROI University: A Higher Ed Marketing Show