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Episode 20: hype the strike!
146 Plays1 year ago
In this episode, - the second of two strike-related episodes - Kate & Tony bring everyone up to speed with the logistics of the strike; what is happening, when and where, as well as covering some FAQs and other important information for the strike itself. Tony & Adam then talk to Madi & Kelly, two student activists, about the student perspective on industrial action and why it is important that we keep up the fight.
If you have questions you'd like answered, or any topics you would like to hear covered on the podcast, drop us an email at [email protected]
You can also stay up to date with everything happening with bargaining at our new bargaining website, and with the branch on Facebook and Twitter. All of which can be found here - https://linktr.ee/myunionwroteaneba
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Transcript
Introduction to 'My Union Wrote an EBA'
00:00:18
Speaker
G'day, everyone, and welcome to My Union Wrote an EBA. This is a podcast to chronicle the progress towards a new enterprise bargaining agreement at Monash University and is brought to you by members of the Monash branch of the NTEU. We're here to take the old agreement and hashtag change it. And unlike our namesake, my dad wrote a porno to everything we can to avoid being fucked in the process.
00:00:41
Speaker
Those involved with the podcast would like to acknowledge that it is being recorded on the unceded lands of the Kulin nations, on whose lands we live, teach and work. We would like to acknowledge and pay our respects to the traditional custodians and elders, past and present, and to the continuation of the cultural, spiritual and educational practices of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land.
Meet the Hosts: Adam Fernandes and Anna Phillips
00:01:08
Speaker
Hi everyone, I'm Adam Fernandes, your friendly neighbourhood national councillor. I thought I would take a break from my neutral reports by welcoming our new Chief People Officer, Anna Phillips, to the Monash aristocracy. Anna hails from the Australian Catholic University in the wake of a restructure crisis, as it proposed to cut the world-leading Dyanoy Institute of Philosophy and the disestablishment of the medieval and early modern studies program.
00:01:33
Speaker
After all, what is theology anyway without the study of history and philosophy?
Monash University's Corporate Transformation
00:01:39
Speaker
With cuts like this to the quality of education and the academic mission, she'll fit right here at Monash University in their mission to turn Monash into a corporate environment. But be warned Anna, in the last 10 years at Monash, we have had over four chief people officers. Now talk about insecure work. I wonder why they leave after a three-year contract.
00:02:02
Speaker
Well, that's it from me.
Strike Episode Introduction and Logistics
00:02:04
Speaker
I'm Adam and I'll see you on the picket line. Hi everyone and welcome back to the second of our strike focused episodes. Last episode, we spoke to Abigail and Thomas from Melbourne Uni about organizing their strikes. So if you haven't listened to that one, make sure you go back and give it a play. There was a lot of really interesting insights into what it is like to be on strike and about the importance of organizing and talking to your students and colleagues.
00:02:30
Speaker
So today in the second part of our strike series, we're going to cover two things. In the first half, we're going to go through the logistics of the strike and what we're going to be doing over the 48 hours that we are on strike and some of the other important information around the strike itself.
00:02:46
Speaker
Then in the second half, you'll hear an interview that Adam and I did with a couple of student activists, Maddie and Kelly, who gave us some insights into the way that students are seeing everything that is going on and why they feel it is important for students to be backing staff in taking industrial action. It was a great chat, so let's get to it. But first up, the strike.
Union Conversations and Mobilizing for Strikes
00:03:06
Speaker
So first off, we want to start by letting you know the most important thing you can be doing in preparation for the strike. And that is just talking to your colleagues, both Tony and I, and pretty much everyone you hear from on the podcast who are active in the union really are just regular university employees who put their hand up and say, Hey, I want to make things better and help with union organizing. Tony and I both just started off by chatting to our work colleagues about what improvements we wanted to see.
00:03:33
Speaker
and what the main issues in our work areas were and bringing these issues to the unions. I definitely didn't have any background in organizing or anything like that, you know, as recently as two years ago. We quickly found that the only way that the union has a presence and an impact in our work areas is if we are talking to our colleagues and that the people best positioned to know what the union can do are the people that are working in that area.
00:03:59
Speaker
So for anyone who wants to see progress in bargaining or a great turnout at the 48 hour strike coming up soon, or better conditions in your work area, the most effective thing that you can do is talk about it with your colleagues. You could do something like send an email to your fellow tutors, seeing if they want to come on strike with you, or talking to your office mates about your plans for the strike and why you're joining.
00:04:23
Speaker
Tony and I can talk about how important it is to join the strike and to wear absolutely blue in the face. But what really gets people involved is when people who they work with every day stand up and say, hey, I'm going on strike because I think this is important and will improve our working conditions. Will you join me? If you're keen to get involved but want a hand with how you might approach your workplace, either send the union branch an email or you can always send an email to us at the podcast and we can give you some tips to get you started.
00:04:52
Speaker
But really, this sort of thing is best if it just comes from your own experience. And I know these kind of conversations can feel like they're going to be
Impact of Campus Visibility During Strikes
00:05:00
Speaker
uncomfortable. But I always find that you're not actually selling something that nobody wants to buy. Most of the conversations that we have with our colleagues, people are pretty much already on board. They might just not know anyone else who they can go on strike with, or they might have just been meaning to join the union but haven't gotten around to it yet.
00:05:18
Speaker
The other big thing that you can do to help with the strike is not just to stop work, but to show up at the university. As we heard from Thomas and Abigail last episode, having a big visible presence on campus led to an increase in members and meant that as the week went on, more and more people joined the strike and joined the union. We've only got 48 hours to show the university where we are all working together for a better enterprise agreement. So being physically on campus is really important.
00:05:47
Speaker
Now onto the strike timetable. We have a full slate of activities planned for the 48 hours. As Tony just mentioned, it's really important that even though we are on strike that we still turn up to our workplace and we still make sure our presence is felt. If you strike and just sit at home, the action itself holds much less power.
00:06:07
Speaker
The same goes for if you're a casual. If like me, you're casual and have classes in some of that time, but not all of it, stick around and get involved in as much as you can. The more bodies that are taking part, the louder our message and the harder it is for Sue Elliott and Peter Marshall to ignore it and for one or both of them to feed lies or spin about it back to the university council or to the general staff body through one of those dreaded all staff emails.
00:06:30
Speaker
Yeah, and that's another great reason to chat to your students if you're running classes as well to get them to show up. And as Tony just said, and we heard in the last episode, strikes are also great at a recruiting opportunity. Being as visible as possible means that people know that we, the union, are there. There are definitely staff at the university who don't know what we're up to, and that there are a group of people fighting to improve their pay and conditions.
00:06:57
Speaker
We want to give them the opportunity to find and join us because we are the university. We do the work and we represent and fight for all the workers of Monash University. All right. So with that said, here's the timetable of stuff that we have planned.
00:07:12
Speaker
So the first day of the strike is Monday and the strike begins at 12 o'clock. 12 o'clock is tools down. From 12.30 to 1.30, we are going to be rallying outside the Chancellery Building. From 1.30 onwards, there'll be a barbecue and banapading led by the folks at Marta. And on to Tuesday. So from 8.30 to 10.30, there will be a picket at the Learning and Teaching Building and at the bus terminal at Clayton.
00:07:37
Speaker
And from 10.30 to 11.30, there'll be a radical rest for World Mental Health Day. And then 11.30 to one, there'll be a teaching featuring academics from history, media studies, and the Department of Management. And from one to 3.30, you can come to the strike salon and come and relax after all that busy picketing and striking. And then from 3.30 onwards, you can come for drinks at the counts, which is also in Clayton.
00:08:04
Speaker
Then on to Wednesday. So Wednesday is the last day of the strike. This is a half day strike. So from 8.30 till 10 a.m. we'll be picking in the train station entrance at Caulfield campus.
Strike Fund and Financial Support for Staff
00:08:15
Speaker
So right there as you get off the train and then from 10 a.m onwards, there'll be a coffee and solidarity also at Caulfield and then back to work at 12 o'clock. Okay, so onto some of the other logistics of the strike. The first is the strike fund.
00:08:33
Speaker
This is such an important safety net, especially for casual staff, and is something that we get a lot of questions about. So if you face financial hardship as a result of engaging in this protected industrial action, you may apply for access to the NTEU Industrial Defence Fund. To qualify, you must either be sessionally employed or experience demonstrable financial hardship as a result
00:09:00
Speaker
and face a loss of 20% or more of your weekly income due to strike action. It is important to note too that the access to the fund remains at the discretion of the General Secretary of the NTAU and is assessed on a case-by-case basis. The purpose of the fund is to provide income relief, not full income supplementation.
00:09:21
Speaker
That said, I don't know anybody that applied for access to the strike fund after the full day statewide strike earlier in the year that didn't get some income relief. So it is there to be used. We are on strike. So if you, if you do qualify, please don't be scared to apply. Yeah, absolutely. And essentially just because it is run by the general secretary of the NTU rather than the Monash branch.
00:09:44
Speaker
We can't say, yep, 100%, you'll get it, you know, all that sort of stuff. But it is still there and from our experience, it is very accessible. So next up, we have some frequently asked questions that I'm going to ask Tony. So first up, do I have to reschedule activities or make up for lost time because I've struck?
00:10:07
Speaker
No, so management cannot require you to reschedule classes, assessments or other activities missed due to taking protected industrial action. Industrial action is meant to be disruptive. It should cause the employer, in this case Monash, to feel your absence and recall your value. Strike action is intended to remind management who does the work
00:10:29
Speaker
and who holds ultimate power in the workplace. If you have been directed to reschedule or perform additional work, please contact the branch immediately at monash at nteu.org.au. So Tony, if I'm cancelling classes because of a strike, do I need to tell my students?
00:10:49
Speaker
Technically, no. That said, it's a bit of a dick move to not. And it's also a good opportunity to talk to them about what's going on. Be honest with them. Tell them how you feel and the way that your working conditions impact you. And that the reason that you're going on strike is to help them as well. We all know that our working conditions are student learning conditions. The two are inseparable.
00:11:14
Speaker
And in my experience, students have been overwhelmingly supportive and appreciative of the honesty and transparency of having those kinds of conversations with them. Most of them know or can feel on some level that things aren't right. And for some of them, it might actually help to clarify the way that they are feeling and bring it into a clearer light. You can also encourage the students to come along to the actions in solidarity. After all, as I said, our working conditions are their learning conditions. And as we'll hear in the interview in a little bit,
00:11:40
Speaker
you know, students do support what we're doing and they understand why we're taking these actions. And so can I be disciplined or adversely impacted for taking industrial action? No. So long as you're a union member, you are protected by law from any adverse action by management. Your contract cannot be terminated, your hours cannot be cut, or your performance called into question as a result of partaking in any protected industrial action. And also, so what should I do if I can't afford to go on strike?
00:12:13
Speaker
The decision to strike and to take strike action can be difficult. We're not trying to hide that that is the case, particularly while we are all suffering under cost of living pressures that are continuing to get worse. We will do our best as the union to ensure that members are not substantially worse off as a result of engaging in industrial action.
00:12:37
Speaker
As we said before, if you are sessional or if you're low income and face a loss of 20% or more of your weekly income due to taking the strike action, you can apply to access to the NTU Industrial Defence Fund. You will also have gotten an email from the branch on the 28th of September that includes links to an FAQ pack with the answers to these and other questions. A link to both donate to and apply for relief from the strike fund
00:13:05
Speaker
templates for making statements to colleagues or students, a slide plaque that you can use to show your students in class, as well as posters and flyers that you can print off and stick up or hand out around the office. And as well, I don't think we mentioned before, having visible flyers and posters and visible markers of the union is another really great way to bring your colleagues in and
00:13:30
Speaker
help them feel more comfortable about undertaking industrial action as well. 100%, I was just out earlier today in the rain sticking up posters around Clayton. You will also see in the most recent bargaining update email that hit our inboxes just as we were writing the script for this, that there is a list of what we're asking you to do for the strike. So here is that list. Don't cross any picket line, cancel any teaching or research activities in the window of the strike,
00:13:57
Speaker
Don't attend any university committees. Do not speak at any Monash events. Do not do research. Consider not performing experiments and where possible safely mothballing laboratories for the period of the strike. Put an auto respond on your email and please join us in strike activities, including our picket line on the mornings of the 10th and the 11th.
00:14:19
Speaker
With that, Tony and I are off to get strike ready. You'll hear from us again after the strike action is over, but feel free to come up to us and say hi during the strike. And as always, if you have any questions, send us an email at myunionroteneba at gmail.com. See you all in the picket line.
00:14:35
Speaker
All right, so now we have joining us a couple of fantastic student comrades who have been a constant presence at all of the actions that we have been having throughout this period of bargaining, Kelly and Maddie. And they're going to give us a bit of insight into the student side of this and how they feel about all of this kind of stuff. Cool. Thanks for having us on, guys. Yeah, thanks guys so much. Yeah, it's really exciting, you know, having more industrial action happen and more action. Yeah, I think it's an opportunity for students to support you guys.
00:15:02
Speaker
All right. So Kelly and Maddie, could you tell us who you are and what is it that you study here at Monash University? So my name's Kelly. I've been an activist at Monash for a few years now. And the thing that I've been studying is a Bachelor of Arts in majoring in film and history. Yeah. My name's Maddie. I've been a student activist at Monash for about two years now. I'm studying a Bachelor of Arts and Science. So my majors are chemistry and history.
00:15:32
Speaker
Cool. And full disclosure, I have definitely taught Kelly before, and I'm not sure, Maddie, if I have also taught you. One of your colleagues has taught me, actually. So how did you guys get involved in supporting the staff industrial action?
00:15:47
Speaker
Well, I got involved in supporting the industrial election because I'm a member of Monash Socialists. So part of our group is that whenever staff are going out on strike or having industrial election that we as students sort of do our bit to support that kind of action in terms of it happening. As well as I've just in the few years that I've been at Monash been a part of like a few campaigns in terms of like education and supporting the staff. So back in 2018, when I think it was about a third of the arts budget got cut,
00:16:16
Speaker
I was involved in a student group there that tried to support the staff and to try and undo some of the cuts in 2020 during the course of the pandemic when hundreds of staff were being sacked there. I got involved in the activism around that to try and fight to maintain people's jobs and conditions. So it's just been a part of the activism I've been doing at Monash for a while. And so whenever there is stuff like this that happens, I really want to get involved.
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah, me too, actually. I mean, I started out by being political through being a socialist and a lot of that came with, yeah, being supportive of union members whenever they go on strike. I'm a unionist myself. I consider, you know, every attack on workers in whatever workplace to be an attack on me too. I'm in my own union, you know, trying to get other people to join as well. But yeah, also I think that supporting star strikes is a part of being left wing, part of being an activist.
00:17:08
Speaker
And yeah, I think that more students should be involved with this sort of stuff. I actually initially got involved because of climate activism. That was my sort of gateway drug into being a bit of an activist on campus and everything else came after that. But yeah, I think supporting staff is one of the key kind of parts about being left wing, is that you have to be on the side of workers when they go on strike. So of course at Monash, when staff go on strike, it should be that students support them as well.
00:17:32
Speaker
Thinking back to before you started university, what did you envision your university experience to be like?
Student Expectations vs. University Reality
00:17:39
Speaker
And how does that compare to the reality of your experience as a student at Monash? The idea that I had when I came to university initially was a bit utopian, I guess, or just a bit unrealistic in the sense that
00:17:50
Speaker
You know, I thought that staff would be given, you know, fair wages, a fair go and able to do their job in the sense that, you know, you can put all this effort in and be thorough through your teaching and all of that kind of thing. And yeah, like universities are supposed to be these spaces where you're allowed to learn about all kinds of things. And it's like this, you know, massive learning opportunity. It's something where you can learn how to be, yeah, either just to learn how to do your job in the future, but also just to learn a bunch of cool and interesting ideas that you might be
00:18:20
Speaker
into. So yeah, I guess I've had a bit of a, you know, a glossy expectation of what that might look like. And it's sad to say that the reality is very much not the case, because education is actually for profit in the societies that actually makes it very, very different.
00:18:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think I had a very similar view of universities before coming to a university myself, the sort of idea that you're going into an institution for education that actually providing the sort of like best quality of education possible in terms of like actually being able to explore a whole range of different ideas.
00:18:53
Speaker
explore whole different areas of research and that sort of thing would be the thing that would be prioritised and that staff as a part of that would actually be given the resources, the pay, the hours required to be able to do all of that stuff to a really high quality and that universities would actually care about their staff. Coming to university, yeah, I really agree with Maddie about actually a lot of university experience
00:19:17
Speaker
through a lot of it you just learn actually that this institution like other businesses in this system are just totally run in the way of making profit or just actually catering students and the efforts of staff into what is considered profitable in the Australian economy and so it's meant like massive underpayment scandals in which staff have been robbed of like literally millions of dollars in wages that they should have been paid but then even beyond the things that are just like the most like actually illegal and like by the courts ruled wrong
00:19:47
Speaker
actions of the university. There's also just been a whole bunch of things like bigger class sizes, the cutting of like specific units or courses. The theatre major a couple of years ago was just like totally gotten rid of. The amount of hours that staff get to do marking all of this kind of stuff just like yeah is actually what the reality
00:20:06
Speaker
of university education is like and so it puts the staff in a really difficult position in terms of wanting to provide a good education but being so restricted by the university management and then students who obviously have their education impacted by that fact as well. I think sometimes like what we've seen in ACU in the last couple of weeks with a huge chunk of their philosophy and medieval history departments being disestablished that's quite an obvious example of that.
00:20:33
Speaker
But do you think it's safe to say that across the student body, do you feel like you both sort of particularly attuned to that because you are more political or do you think that's fairly obvious to all students across the university that there is this sort of mismatch and there is this sort of progressive deterioration in condition?
00:20:48
Speaker
I definitely think that insofar as students are actually aware about the situation, they are quite pissed off about it. The fact that you have a bunch of courses that you want to enroll in, you can't anymore. That's been something that's been noticed by students, I think. I've seen a bunch of Facebook posts before of students being like, hey, I wanted to enroll in this unit and it actually doesn't exist anymore. What's going on? I think that a lot of the time, especially if you're in a different department or something that doesn't tend to get cut,
00:21:13
Speaker
maybe you're a little less aware of what's going on but I think that through speaking to students about what's actually happening at universities in the sense that your management is cutting courses and all of this kind of thing through becoming aware of what's going on have come to the conclusion that well actually this is really messed up and why is it that the university just continues to cut courses that they don't see are worthwhile or just don't see as important or either that or the government doesn't see as important for whatever jobs they want to want people to enter into so
00:21:43
Speaker
I definitely think being political is an advantage in the sense that we know a little bit more about what's going on. But I definitely do think that the problem isn't that people know about this and don't care. I think the problem is that a lot of students probably just aren't aware at all. The real issue, and I think one of the things that we're constantly trying to figure out is
00:22:02
Speaker
How do we do that in a way that reaches beyond just our students who are thinking more critically as part of the curriculum to other areas that might not be as aware?
Impact of Staff Conditions on Student Experience
00:22:11
Speaker
Now, something we say a lot is that staff working conditions are student learning conditions. How do you feel like your experience at Monash has been impacted by staff working conditions?
00:22:21
Speaker
I think that's actually one of the, it's one of the best, maybe you call it a slogan or just like a phrase that comes out of sort of organizing at university, whether it's on the staff end or student end. Cause I think it's really true. And I think there's a bunch of ways in which students sort of like experience this.
00:22:37
Speaker
And I think those are actually the ways in which like people sort of first and foremost start to think about their university experience actually being contrary to what they thought it might be in the sort of ways in which we've talked about. And that can come out in like the whole variation of ways. Like sometimes it is actually just tutors talking to their like students about what are their conditions and how they don't get enough time to mark their assessments or to mark their assessments to the degree that they would want to.
00:23:03
Speaker
or issues around the hours in which tutors have outside of the tutorial to then talk to their students about the assessments or sort of just the whatever they're studying in general and so experiencing that but also tutors talking about that to their students I think has been the way in which like I've seen it happen in my classes and I know other people have experienced that as well and it's like really direct and obvious then when you sort of see the impact of just like
00:23:28
Speaker
how the conditions in which the tutors and the staff are forced to work in actually just do impact the quality of the education that they can deliver. Not in a way in which students then I think come to blame the tutoring like the tutors or the staff itself for it but come to sort of understand how much the management is just restricting people's ability to teach and to teach how they would like to.
00:23:49
Speaker
And it's really good, I think, when tutors talk about this stuff in their class because actually you just get to hear it from their perspective and you get to hear their own stories about how they've been impacted by the university's management or their administration, et cetera, in a way that sometimes students get a sense of in their classes, but can understand in a more deeper level when the people who are experiencing these things talk about it.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely think the key is staff talking to students about this. A lot of the time, I've tried to make arguments to people about the fact that staff working conditions are student learning conditions. Those two things are interlinked. They're not counterposed to each other at all. Actually, the reason that your class sizes are bigger is because the management employees, you know, not enough people or it tries to cut down on wage costs in a bunch of different ways. So those two things are actually interlinked. You know, there's a reason that you get less
00:24:40
Speaker
essay feedback, all this kind of stuff. But I do think it's a much stronger argument when it comes from staff. I know in some of my classes there have been announcements by staff to say, hey, yeah, you know, we're going on strike, you guys should support us. And a lot of the time the students are like, oh, what? You guys are going on strike? That's awesome. So the important part is actually making the argument. I think in terms of how this has affected my experience as a university student is that, well, yeah, I have noticed that bar sizes are bigger than they used to be.
00:25:07
Speaker
The fact that my lectures are recorded, I don't know of many arts classes that have actual lectures on campus in person. I actually don't have any in my own units myself. So I'm sure that some students have noticed that too. So I think the argument is basically that, well, there's a connection between that and when management attacks staff, those two things are directly linked to each other.
00:25:30
Speaker
I think it's kind of depressing that for students that started at Monash or started at any university during COVID and during those lockdowns, they have likely gone through their degree so far and not even had the experience of an in-person lecture.
Financial Pressures on Students and Education Costs
00:25:43
Speaker
All they have ever known are these recorded ones that we pivoted to during COVID because we had to. And then afterwards, the university just said,
00:25:51
Speaker
just keep doing it that way. For most students in most of the units that I teach, it means they have no interaction, like no direct interaction with the unit coordinators of their unit and beneficial as I'm sure it is for them to be able to see teaching associates like me. It's not the same and I think it's also really atomizing as well, like for both the students and for the staff.
00:26:09
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely think as well because students are paying a lot more for their degrees than they're used to. That's another part of it as well. It's like, why am I paying so much more for my degree than people who enrolled before me? And at the same time, you know, all of my lectures are online. Why is it that I'm not getting much feedback from my tutor or, you know, their consulting hours are
00:26:29
Speaker
You know, very limited. And if the tutor actually wants to give enough feedback to all their students, they end up just having to do unpaid overtime. It's literally impossible to do quality education in a context like that where you're not being paid to actually do it. I think that that aspect as well as having to pay more for your degree really, really makes it a bit more obvious, I think.
00:26:50
Speaker
Especially as well, just because earlier in the year, students' hex debt got indexed as well, so I think on top of already having to pay more for a university degree than previous years, while the university management have tried to erode the quality of that education,
00:27:07
Speaker
also our debts are growing at the same time so especially in a cost of living crisis when like young people are trying to like or one afford to live right now as it is like particularly when you're renting when your bills are getting like larger and larger when just like groceries are costing more and more
00:27:25
Speaker
But then you think about your future as well and you think about, OK, the prospect of ever owning a home and then you look at your student debt and all of these kinds of things. I think it is something that is making more and more people actually sort of look at that kind of stuff and pay attention to it just because actually everything is getting more expensive. But that is not changing in terms of the wages in which most young people get.
00:27:44
Speaker
or as well particularly the wages that the university staff are getting as well because it's not only students obviously dealing with the cost of living crisis it's staff as well. Given that many staff and factor union, our union members have voted for taking protected industrial
Student-Staff Solidarity and Strike Impact
00:28:00
Speaker
action. Why do you think it's important for students to support staff who will be taking that action in the next few weeks?
00:28:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's really great to hear that it's three days. I think there's sort of like two important reasons for it. One is some of that stuff that we've talked about, about how the staff work in conditions of the student learning conditions, that there's actually like a tie between these two parts of the university that mean that when one section of that two sides of the equation are fighting for their rights, that actually can have a positive impact on the other section. And so staff who go out to fight for their rights in terms of wages and conditions,
00:28:35
Speaker
Class sizes assessment time, whatever it may be that actually them fighting for that is also fighting for the interests of students education getting better and better actually But then I think there's also just the other thing of just having solidarity like just saying that you know a lot of the issues that like sort of what I said before actually like a lot of the like issues that are being faced by students in terms of this cost of living crisis and
00:28:58
Speaker
like to actually have the understanding that that is also affecting our staff members and so our staff members even without the cost of living crisis they have a right to actually fight for better wages and conditions and to improve that for themselves and us as students the other part of the university that the management would love to pit against the staff when they take this kind of action have then a responsibility to come out and support the staff
00:29:22
Speaker
in solidarity with them fighting for our conditions, but also their own conditions in this context as well. Yeah, I definitely think that, especially because uni management and they've done this at other universities as well.
00:29:36
Speaker
They tend to try to pit the students against the staff in a kind of strike breaking type tactic of trying to get students to guilt trip the staff or trying to use students as an argument to guilt trip the staff to not go on strike because how could you go on strike when you've got a bunch of students that you have to worry about? I think that in the context of that, it's like, well, it's even more important for students then to support the strike because of all the links that we talked before about staff conditions and student conditions.
00:30:04
Speaker
But yeah, also, it's something that's used quite often in industries like education. It's used in healthcare as well to nurses, you know, how do you abandon your patients when you know, you're going on strike and everything like that. It's like, well,
00:30:18
Speaker
you know, all of these things are interlinked with each other, patients and nurses and students and staff. Like all of these things are not counterposed to each other at all in terms of when one group fights for their rights, it's not putting down another group, it's actually everybody fighting together. So I do think that it'll be especially important in that context for students to support the staff in the next track as well. One of the things that very often comes up mainly from staff, but also a little bit from students, is this idea about
00:30:47
Speaker
the detrimental impact of industrial action and particularly strikes on students' education. What would you say to staff or students who might be concerned about that being a sort of flow-on effect from the industrial action that we'll be taking?
00:31:02
Speaker
Well one thing about that is I think you just actually have to weigh what does it mean for over a long period of time for education just to get worser and worser and worser and for the teaching conditions of staff to get worser and worser and worser and measure that against the impact that like industrial action has in the here and now because actually taking that industrial action
00:31:23
Speaker
While you may miss a class on a day or a week of uni or whatever it may be, actually that industrial action is the only thing that is standing and students supporting that. That's the only thing that is standing in the way of a long-term decline in students' education and in staff conditions. And so I think actually when we think about what is going to overall improve the quality of education and the staff's ability to be able to provide that.
00:31:49
Speaker
it is going to be taking industrial actions like this where staff can defend their rights at work and can defend then the conditions of the students in which they teach and whatever sort of like sacrifice that people have to make in terms of, yeah, missing a day here or there, like that is not in any way
00:32:05
Speaker
like equal to that of what could happen if staff don't stand up for themselves and stand up for students. So really the blame needs to be laid at the feet of the university for them worsening education. And it's actually the staff who are like standing up for our rights. So I think that's sort of one way in which I would respond to that.
00:32:23
Speaker
I wanted to ask you, just on the flip side to Tony's question, what advice could you give staff to better educate their students about why they're taking industrial action? Why the students should also get active? Yeah, I think the first thing is just have conversations with your students. Tell them about what's going on.
00:32:43
Speaker
I think that making the argument about the staff conditions being student conditions is something that's really compelling and to students. So I think that the first thing is just to talk to your students, you know, make an announcement in your class or something, or even then as well. I think that campaigns are really, really important to be able to get the word out there, which means that whenever strikes like this happens, there should be a conversation around it, not just in the classes between staff and students, but also I think there should be, you know, different campaigns, like we've
00:33:13
Speaker
Kelly and I have been involved with Students Support the Strike staff strikes campaign over the last year. And that's been quite useful, actually, telling people about the strike that's going to happen. You know, when it's happening, you've got to argue to students don't go to your class, you should actually come to the strike instead. All of those things make it easier to argue to students that they should be supporting the staff.
00:33:31
Speaker
campaigns, but also I remember I got an email as well from Tony, actually, when the Star Strike was on. I think it was a few months ago, actually, saying we're going out on on strike. Our classes aren't happening for this reason and come out and support us as well. Here's where it's going to be. Here's a place it's going to be and the time. So I thought that was actually quite useful in getting the students to support them as well.
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah, I really agree with that. Like actually just having staff members who are involved in this, talking to their students about it can be, well one, extremely informative, but also extremely persuasive as well. Like these people that you build up a relationship with over the course of a semester who teach you.
00:34:09
Speaker
to actually have those people in their classes be open about the strike and to actually yeah just like put forward an argument about why people should support it and talk a little bit about well actually yeah why are they going on strike what's the sort of demands of the strike that sort of thing
00:34:25
Speaker
But then also why it's explicitly important for students then not to go to their classes as a big element to that. And like Maddie said, to instead come and support the different actions that get put on. And actually, I think part of like getting the word out there, too, is just having those actions in the first place as well. It's just like, I think actually when the like when the staff organize like previous like this sort of most recent thing, when there was that rally outside of the Chancely building.
00:34:52
Speaker
I thought that was quite useful in terms of then being able to actually just be a bit of a point of on the campus, like physically where students could walk past and say, Oh, what's going on? Can I know a little bit more about that? And we had students coming up to our campaign group to actually just like talk about that and to ask questions. And so I think even just having those actions as well as a way to sort of build up momentum and build up support for bigger actions in the future. I also agree that the campaign stuff is really important too. Like,
00:35:21
Speaker
And that's part of our responsibility as students as well, is to reach out to other students. But staff participating in those kinds of campaigns and letting us know what sort of the stuff that you really want to get out there to students. Using actually the Student Union to get stuff out there as well to students, I think that is extremely helpful.
00:35:40
Speaker
And it would be good to see a lot more of that as well, just being able to contact every student on the campus and let them know what's going on and putting a case to them about why they should join into the strike actions and industrial actions as well. I think all of that would be really positive.
00:35:55
Speaker
I guess that's it. Thank you, Kelly. Thank you, Maddie, for coming and joining us. It was really great to be able to get an opportunity to hear the perspective of students. And as I was saying to you both before we started recording, one of the things that I think holds people back from getting more involved sometimes, especially teaching staff, is this fear that students don't understand or don't support what is happening. I think both of you did a really amazing job at dispelling a lot of the myths around that kind of stuff today.
00:36:22
Speaker
And I guess the other thing, maybe, Maddie and Callie, if there are students listening, which seems unlikely, but is possible, and they want to get involved and help support what you're doing in helping support what we're doing, how can they find you?
00:36:36
Speaker
So if students want to get involved, they should find our Facebook page called Monash student support staff strikes, and they can message the page as well as join a Facebook group of the same name so they can get updated on actually what we're doing in terms of supporting the staff strike and get involved in that activity. And we will shortly have an Instagram made as well under the same name, hopefully that people can contact as well. And yeah, I guess we'll see you at the strike. Cool. Definitely. Yeah. See you guys soon.
00:37:04
Speaker
Alright folks, that's it for this episode. Thanks to Kate, Danny, Adam, Bernard, and Pod Daddy Sofio for all the work they've put into this, and we'll catch you next time.