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Episode Seven: PABO time! w/Amelia & Sofie
205 Plays1 year ago
In this episode, Kate & Tony talk to Amelia Sully and Sofie Onorato (former and current Monash Branch Organisers respectively) about industrial action at Monash. We discuss what the PABO process looks like, the actions that we endorsed at the all-members meeting earlier in the month, and what actions we've taken at Monash in the past to #changeit
If you have questions about the process you'd like answered, or any topics you would like to hear covered on the podcast, drop us an email at myunionwroteaneba@gmail.com
You can also stay up to date with everything happening with bargaining at our new bargaining website, and with the branch on Facebook and Twitter. All of which can be found here - https://linktr.ee/myunionwroteaneba
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Transcript
Introduction to EBA and Land Acknowledgment
00:00:18
Speaker
G'day, everyone, and welcome to My Union Wrote an EBA. This is a podcast to chronicle the progress towards a new enterprise bargaining agreement at Monash University and is brought to you by members of the Monash branch of the NTEU. We're here to take the old agreement and hashtag change it. And unlike our namesake, my dad wrote a porno to everything we can to avoid being fucked in the process.
00:00:41
Speaker
Those involved with the podcast would like to acknowledge that it is being recorded on the unceded lands of the Kulin nations, on whose lands we live, teach and work. We would like to acknowledge and pay our respects to the traditional custodians and elders, past and present, and to the continuation of the cultural, spiritual and educational practices of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land.
Salary Update and Bargaining Frustrations
00:01:07
Speaker
Hello everyone, it is I, your friendly neighbourhood National Councillor Adam Fernandes. I'm here with another salary update fresh from the Vice-Chancellor's office. It has been 236 days since the expiry of the last agreement and our Vice-Chancellor has finally cracked the $750,000 mark, earning a sweet $775,732.
00:01:33
Speaker
We can expect a missive from her office reflecting on the return of students to campus, world pride and other distractions concocted by the PR team at Monash. Just so we don't notice the parking fee hikes and the slow descent of staff into grinding poverty. Well, on that note, I'm signing out. Enjoy the rest of this podcast.
Bargaining Progress and Inflation Concerns
00:01:55
Speaker
As most of you are probably aware, we've now been bargaining, if you can call it that, given the shit-full levels of engagement from the university with what we've been proposing, since October last year. In that time, inflation and the cost of living have become really serious issues facing many staff. Mortgage stress, rent increases, the cost of food and fuel constantly rising are taking its toll on all of us.
00:02:16
Speaker
Last year, as this was starting to really take hold, the NTAU launched a petition for a pay rise. With the uni dragging its feet and an expired agreement, the only way this could happen was with an administrative pay rise, in other words, by forcing management to offer it. Hundreds of signatures later, the university did just that, giving us 3%, which was less than what we petitioned for and patting themselves on the back so hard they nearly fell over.
00:02:40
Speaker
That was below inflation then, and sure as shit is now. So one of the main requests that the bargaining team have been making with each meeting is, can we talk about pay? Our VC who rakes in 3K a day may not be feeling the pinch, but ordinary workers definitely are. Their response? Fuck off. Not going to happen. Well, not in as many words, but that's clearly the implication.
Union's Plan for Industrial Action
00:03:00
Speaker
And so last year, in an all members meeting in November, we asked members to endorse a position that said, if we don't get a meaningful pay offer by the end of January,
00:03:08
Speaker
we will begin the process of moving towards industrial action. That motion was very strongly backed in that meeting and with January coming and going without the University's representatives even pretending to care, we had another all members meeting to vote on whether to apply to the Fair Work Commission for a parvo, a protected action ballot order. That motion too was strongly endorsed with 96% of people saying that they had had enough and it was time to take action.
00:03:32
Speaker
That brings us to now. Last episode,
Episode Recap and Focus on Industrial Action
00:03:34
Speaker
which we released a couple of days before the meeting on the 7th, we spoke to Campbell Smith about what industrial action is. If you haven't listened to that yet, maybe considering pausing this and going back to listen to it as it sets the stage for a lot of the conversation today. This time around, we're going into more detail about what the parbo process looks like and what the actions that we voted to endorse might look like in practice.
00:03:57
Speaker
who has to engage
Guest Introductions: Amelia Sully and Sophie O
00:03:58
Speaker
in them, and also historically what, where's the Monash branch we've been able to do in the past in terms of industrial action and what has worked. To help us work through all that, today we're going to be talking to Amelia Sully, a former organizer at the Monash branch, but who now works at Melbourne University, and the always name checked but never before on Myak Sophie O, one of the two Monash branch organizers.
00:04:19
Speaker
So hello and
Importance of Industrial Action in Bargaining
00:04:20
Speaker
welcome Amelia and Sophie. Welcome to the mic. To begin with, perhaps you can both tell us a little bit about yourselves and what you do. Yeah, thanks for having us. It's good to finally have some mic time. So I am an organizer at the Monash branch at the moment. I've been here since sort of April last year. Basically, I suppose my job is to
00:04:47
Speaker
help coordinate, you know, members campaigns, get people active and engaged and joining the union. But before I was an organizer as well, I was a casual academic over at the University of Melbourne and was a delegate in the NTU and was quite heavily involved in a lot of the wage theft and casuals organizing that we did over there. Amelia. Thanks, Comrade, for having me on the pod.
00:05:13
Speaker
Sorry in advance for all the edits you're going to have to do. I
Voting Process for Industrial Action
00:05:18
Speaker
also was a casual at Melbourne. I was a tutor in the art history department. And now I work as an organiser at the Melbourne branch. But as Kate said, I was at Monash for a little while before that.
00:05:32
Speaker
I had a baby in 2020, and when I came back from leave, I'm now at Melbourne. So, hi. Thanks for that, and it's good to have you back within the union fold, Amelia. It's great to have you both here talking with us today. To start with, what might be a bit of a big question, but one that I think is important to ask, why do we take industrial action? What effect does it have and what effect do we want it to have? Yeah, I might jump in first, if that's okay. Go for it, comrade.
00:06:00
Speaker
That's, yeah, obviously that's quite a big question, Tony. But I think, I suppose, really it comes down to a lot of the power dynamics sort of at play during bargaining and really I suppose in, you know, outside of bargaining times as well. The university, as we know, has a lot of resources, a lot of money.
00:06:21
Speaker
And at the bargaining table, you know, our team, people like Ben or Scott or Michelle or Alice, who hasn't yet been on the pod, you know, they can make the most sort of reasonable, logical or moral arguments for why something should be changed. But I think, and as we're saying as well, you know, HR.
00:06:38
Speaker
can just sort of say no or we'll think about it and get back to you. And there isn't really a lot of recourse at that table for our team to kind of push back. You can keep sort of going over the same ground again and again. So I suppose what industrial action or in the context of bargaining or direct action outside of bargaining can do is sort of shift the university's position. So I think by people kind of coming together
00:07:07
Speaker
and doing something to really disrupt operations, it makes the ultimate decision makers, people like our 3K a day VC, it holds them kind of accountable, I suppose. And when those disruptions happen, they want to make that problem go away and they will move to make that happen.
00:07:30
Speaker
So, yeah, I don't know, Amelia, if you want to jump in and add anything. Yeah, no, that was like perfect answer. The only thing, small thing I would add to that is just to say that like it would be good if we could sort it all out through talking with management in negotiations. But negotiating for a new enterprise agreement isn't a level playing field. And as Sophie said, if it were just a matter of getting in the room together, making a good case for the changes,
00:07:59
Speaker
and reason would prevail, we would wipe the floor with them. Our members trade literally is making rational argument. So like the reality is in bargaining, workers are up against it. And so industrial action is a way to, you know, if management were to decide not to listen to staff, industrial action is a way to balance out that imbalance at the negotiating table.
00:08:29
Speaker
So at the All
Engaging Union Members in Action
00:08:30
Speaker
Members Meeting on February the 7th, 96% of members endorsed a motion to apply to the Fair Work Commission for a parbo to start the process of industrial action. With that motion now having been passed, what happens now? What does the journey between the vote last week and actually taking industrial action look like?
00:08:48
Speaker
So I suppose I know in last week's episode, Campbell spoke quite a bit about the technical side of a protected action ballot, you know, applying to fair work and giving the university a chance to potentially challenge our actions and that sort of behind the scenes work. But I think basically for us on the ground, what happens now is that at some point, probably in the second half of March,
00:09:16
Speaker
members will be, and every NTU Monash member will be asked to vote on a list of nine actions that were endorsed at that meeting. So during that voting period, we'll need at least 50% of the NTU Monash branch to participate in that vote. And of those who vote, we need 50% of them to vote yes.
00:09:41
Speaker
to each action. It's quite a big, I suppose, like turnout that we are required to do, but we do have a lot of things
00:09:50
Speaker
I suppose planned in that time between now and then to sort of ramp up our engagement and our outreach to members and to people who aren't union members who should always join. So yeah, we've got phone banking and workplace meetings and coffee stalls. Shout out to the Parkville and St Kilda Road members who are organizing workplace meetings. We haven't forgotten about you.
00:10:15
Speaker
So yeah, I think all of those things, you know, door knocking, one-on-one conversations, we just really want to, I suppose, cut through the noise and have everyone engaged and ready for what's to come. Yeah, and just
Casual Staff Involvement in Industrial Action
00:10:28
Speaker
to add on that, make sure you've got your details up to date with the union to make that voting process as smooth as possible.
00:10:36
Speaker
Wow, that really does sound like a lot of work. So once it's all done, how long do we have to actually do it? Are the actions time limited? Do we have to do them within a period of time? I can take this one, Soph, if you like. Good question. So once the ballot is declared, if we win the ballot, then we first need to give three clear days notice to management. And we also need to take each of the actions within 30 days in order to enliven them.
00:11:05
Speaker
Once they've done that, they're on the table for members to take for the duration of bargaining if they choose to. Cool. The other question I think that we had a lot in our all members meeting on the 7th of February was, does everybody have to participate in all of the nine actions? Particularly if they voted yes to them, is that then a contract that they then have to fulfill or anything?
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah, so the vote in the protected action ballot is not a vote to take industrial action. It's a vote to give yourselves the right to be able to take industrial action down the track later in semester if you choose to. So if members that might actually win the ballot, then it will be up to members to decide collectively about whether you decide to take any of the actions at all. And then if collectively you decide to take
00:11:56
Speaker
action, then it's up to you as an individual whether you choose to participate in that action. And there's some actions that will apply to some people's work and some that may not apply to your work. So for example, one of the questions is a ban on consultation with or providing support to students outside the delivery of tutes, lectures or workshops. And so if you're not teaching, then that then you can't participate in that action, but you can still vote yes or no on that question. And we still need
00:12:26
Speaker
50% of all members are working at Monash to participate in the vote and a majority of those voting to vote yes for those members who could, if they chose to take that action, actually be able to do it down the track.
00:12:40
Speaker
Yeah. And so I think it's important like in that sense that just because you can't do that, don't deny someone else the ability to do that. So if you don't teach, don't vote no to that because you don't think that's something you're going to be doing because in effect, what you're doing is depriving people who might want to do that and take that action from being able to do it when the time comes. And so speaking
Personal Experiences from Past Strikes
00:13:00
Speaker
of that kind of differentiation as well, how do casuals go about engaging in industrial action? Is it different for us versus full-time or part-time staff?
00:13:08
Speaker
Short answer is no, it's not really different. You know, say there is a ban on consulting with students and you are a casual tutor. Obviously you can participate in that ban.
00:13:19
Speaker
But for instance, if there is an action that is a strike on a particular day and you maybe aren't working on that day, you can't really technically participate in that industrial action. But it doesn't mean that you can't go along to the picket line or participate in some other way or help organize it. So I know
00:13:43
Speaker
Um, at the last round of enterprise bargaining negotiations at Melbourne Uni, I was a casual, um, and I wasn't working on the day that there was, you know, a strike called, but I still was in the rally and, you know, participated and wore my purple shirt and waved my little purple flag. And it was amazing. It was so much
Types of Industrial Actions Endorsed
00:14:02
Speaker
fun. And, you know, there's like friends and colleagues and, you know, supervisors and other tutors and stuff, and everyone was there together and it was, it was really fun. Um, so yeah, I suppose yes and no to that question.
00:14:13
Speaker
Um, that was, that was also the first strike in TU strike that I was a part of as well. And I remember like, um, the morning of it and realizing that organizing a strike is like literally like having a party and like in the hours leading up to it, like starting to worry that no one's going to come to my party. And I remember the morning of the strike at Melbourne. Um, um, I was there for it the start of the day when a few people arrived maybe a bit earlier on time and they were, you know, looking around and
00:14:42
Speaker
You could imagine them feeling like, am I going to be one of the only people who come to these? Like, maybe I shouldn't have come. And then someone put on, oh, the speakers music. And I think it was Dancing in the Dark by Bruce Springsteen, which is like, super cheese. Excellent choice. My vibe is more Diana Ross, but, you know, all of a sudden, like, there were just a couple of people and then all of a sudden there were hundreds of people there. And then there were speeches and then we marched down to join
00:15:12
Speaker
rally that was on the same day to try to change our unfair workplace laws and I remember that feeling of like we kind of marched down from Melbourne Uni and we joined the rally somewhere near Trades Hall and you couldn't, there were so many people you couldn't really hear what was going on and couldn't see what was going on and then after a while after the speeches we started to move and we like turned that corner into Lonsdale Street and because we're at the back of the rally just like as far as the eye could see the street was full of
00:15:42
Speaker
of people marching, it was the best, most joyful feeling. That sounds like so much fun. Excited to get to it again in this round of bargaining. So the meeting that we had on the 7th of February endorsed a list of nine actions, which covers the things that we as a branch, as members can do. So just to remind everyone, I'm just going to really quickly read through the actions that we endorse to the all members meeting and from the basis of our parbo.
00:16:10
Speaker
So the first one is stoppages of work between five minutes and 24 hours in duration.
00:16:16
Speaker
The second is an indefinite stoppages of work. The third is a ban on participation in Monash University events. Number four is making statements explaining why the union is taking industrial action. Number five is a ban on the transmission of assessment results to the employer. Number six, a ban on the use of Monash University's online systems. Number seven is writing emails in all caps and or without punctuation.
00:16:44
Speaker
Number eight is a ban on consultation with or providing support to students outside the delivery of tutorials, lectures or workshops. And number nine is a ban on working outside your usual hours of work. So a pretty good list covering a wide array of different types of action. And all of these actions will potentially look a little bit different, like Amelia was saying, depending on where in the university are and what your job is.
00:17:09
Speaker
So to help support these industrial actions, are there things outside of industrial action that's related to the parbo that members can do to organize and build pressure on the university? And what's the kind of relationship between something that's considered industrial action and something that is probably considered more organizing? Good question.
Community Building through Industrial Action
00:17:31
Speaker
So how do we organize ourselves to get ready for industrial action?
00:17:34
Speaker
Um, well, I think the main thing is talking with each other as colleagues. So it's, um, the, the organizing work of getting ready for something like industrial action is really fun. Um, it's just like just really, it's just a matter of getting together with, um, a colleague or a friend in your department or in your school or in your work area and getting together for a beer or for a coffee, whatever, and sitting down and making a list of everybody who works in your work area.
00:18:01
Speaker
and mapping out who knows who and who's friends with who and working out how you're gonna get the word out to everybody. And you don't need to talk with everybody, you just work out who's gonna talk with each person. And it's really fun. And that feeling of getting together with colleagues and doing something to start to change something at your workplace that you think should be better than what it is, is such a good feeling. The first thing I remember doing when I was just a member of the NTU, when I was a tutor at Melbourne Uni,
00:18:31
Speaker
was we had a campaign where we were trying to get people secure jobs at the university. And I remember there was one day where we were going around putting up posters about this campaign. I remember going around with a couple of other mates who were also union members and with members who I hadn't really met before but was just getting to know. We were putting up posters all over the university and then like at the end of the day we all got together to have a beer at SOOBOO.
00:18:55
Speaker
And I remember feeling like for the first time, I was like, oh, wow, it could be different. The feeling that management has this control over my life, that I didn't have a secure job because there was something wrong with me or with my work, that feeling, I started to realize, oh, maybe that power relationship could be different. And so just that act of doing something together with colleagues to try to make the university a fairer place to work.
00:19:24
Speaker
is so empowering. So that organizing for the action itself is really fun. So recommend getting amongst it. Something that I think sticks out to me in particular about my time as an activist and a delegate in the union, particularly I think as a casual staff member is when you're getting ready for an event or a rally or something like this,
00:19:45
Speaker
The sense of community, I think that it helps build is I think in contrast to the sense of like alienation and isolation that you feel when you're
00:19:56
Speaker
you know, a casual and, you know, you don't have an office or something or you don't really feel part of the department. And I think that union organizing and doing that sort of stuff and that relationship building can really help combat that. And it's
Challenges and Strengths of Collective Action
00:20:12
Speaker
quite fun. And, you know, you feel like whiner for me. I felt like I, you know, sort of I found a sense of like belonging and community and built like really, you know, long lasting friendships with some of those people.
00:20:25
Speaker
And I think as well, particularly for casuals, like I've worked at Monash for nearly a decade and there are people that I have been friends with and colleagues with for years and years and years who I can go months and months without saying just because of the atomized nature of the work that we do. And I think this is the perfect opportunity to reach out to those people and connect with those people again. And it gives you an excuse to talk to them and to sort of engage with them again.
00:20:51
Speaker
So just now, I guess, to turn our heads back a little bit to the last round, Amelia, you were at Monash during that. What are some of the actions that the branch took last time? People may remember last time we were negotiating an agreement, members working in the libraries, taking an action that if you were to return a book, they would treat you as if you had paid any fines you had on your account.
00:21:20
Speaker
And that was a fun action and like members had fun with it. So when they, at the point when they decided to call it off, they called it off specifically at 3.31.20 AM on the day that they called it off because that's the Dewey Decimal Code for books on compensation and other conditions of employment. I remember there was like, I had a good lull like reading the coverage of
00:21:48
Speaker
the action in Canvas Morning Mail as well because I think that the heading of the article was something like, what do we want? Do we? And then like subtitles like industrial action shelved in the Monash U library. So that was fun. There were also, of course, stoppages. So there were a number of strikes. Members also took the action of making statements about why union members were taking industrial action.
00:22:15
Speaker
As a branch for Monash, what are some of the challenges do you think that we face this time? And what are some of the strengths that we have as well as a branch? What can be a bit of a challenge is that we have so many campuses.
00:22:28
Speaker
You know, people are quite spread out. We have Clayton, Corfield, Parkville, Peninsula, Bendigo Rural Health people in St Kilda Road. So just purely in terms of getting in front of members, that can be a little bit of a challenge. And I think probably another one is the last few years have been a bit hard on Monash staff with, you know, restructures and redundancies and COVID and that sort of thing. But the flip side of that is that that also becomes a strength in that members are fed up.
00:22:55
Speaker
I think people are actually quite angry at the university and I think that the constant sort of predictions of a deficit and a decline in student enrolments which hasn't really occurred. We've said it a million times
Global Academic Strike Movements
00:23:09
Speaker
already but last year Monash made an operating surplus of $416 million. Things like that and the fact that just yesterday it was announced that parking fees at Monash were going to be hiked in line with CPI while
00:23:23
Speaker
pay hasn't hasn't really gone up and it's definitely not going up in line with CPI. So I think that those sorts of things really are feeding into people's anger and I think that that can be channeled into taking action. But I think that also another strength which is sort of more broadly is that over the last couple of years at the same time it's been quite challenging for our sector. We've actually made some really really important gains and wins around
00:23:49
Speaker
you know, wage theft. And I think with other universities like we had Gavin Smith from Western Sydney Uni come on the pod at the end of last year talking about some of the permanent jobs that, you know, they were able to win there and some of the better conditions. So I think
00:24:03
Speaker
In that sense, there's a lot of anger, but there's also a lot of hope and a lot of, I think, traction for the claims that we're making, and they resonate quite deeply with members. So I'm quite optimistic, and I think that we're in a really interesting sort of turning point for our sector more widely, particularly in this round of bargaining.
00:24:22
Speaker
I guess as maybe a final question then, our path towards industrial action now is sort of coinciding with a wave of strikes in industrial action in Australia and around the world in all kinds of different sectors. Why do you think that is? Good question. Yeah, so people would know that colleagues working in our sector in the UK are currently taking action themselves. I think it's something like 70,000 colleagues working at 150 different
00:24:51
Speaker
institutions in the UK are taking action right now. In fact, they're taking strike action today. They are trying to win a fair pay rise, to win more secure jobs at their universities, to resist changes to their pension scheme. And there's really interesting debates happening within among union members in the UK in our sector about different forms of industrial action and strategy. So they're sort of right now, they're in the middle of a kind of stepped up strike.
00:25:21
Speaker
this kind of current set of strikes started a few weeks ago with two days a week and then the following week they're moving up to three days a week and then four days a week and then five days a week and I think then there was maybe a break or a plan for a break so that's kind of there sort of in the middle of that at the moment which is really interesting when there's a debate there about like the efficacy of that approach to strikes versus an indefinite strike and what the pros and cons of each would be
00:25:46
Speaker
People would also know that there was a long strike at the University of California towards the end of last year. So there were, I think, 48,000 workers in the UC system who were affected by that action. So some of whom were out for three weeks, some of whom were out for five weeks. And I think that was perhaps the biggest strike in US history and academia. So that happened only a few months ago. UK
00:26:12
Speaker
colleagues were on strike at the moment. So it's definitely something is in the water in our sector at the moment comrades. It's called the corporate university. Absolutely.
Encouragement for Union Participation and Membership
00:26:24
Speaker
Excellent little quip there Sophie.
00:26:27
Speaker
And just as a reminder to everyone, if you want to take part in industrial action, whether it's writing emails in all caps or going on strike or anything in between, you've got to be a union member. So if you or your mates and coworkers want to stick it to management,
00:26:44
Speaker
make sure you're signed up and that they are too. And for members, please take a minute to make sure your contact details are up to date. As I was saying before, that'll make the parbo process go much more smoothly. And when the time comes, it'll be really important that we can get in contact with you. And thanks so much, Amelia and Sophie, for your time today and for explaining to us and everyone out there what the path forward looks like and what the next few months of bargaining at Monash is going to look like.
00:27:10
Speaker
Thanks for having me, Comrades. Dead to struggle. Thanks, Comrades. I'm looking forward to it. All right, folks. That's it for this episode. Thanks to Kate, Danny, Adam, Bernard, and Pod Daddy, Sofio, for all the work they've put into this. And we'll catch you next time.