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Episode 14: work, work, work
174 Plays1 year ago
In this (slightly delayed) episode (sorry!), Kate & Tony talk about work. Stop works & members meetings, insecure work via the roll-out of the Ph.D. fixed-term program, and the Fair Work Commission hearing Monash's non-payment of student consultations.
If you have questions about the process you'd like answered, or any topics you would like to hear covered on the podcast, drop us an email at myunionwroteaneba@gmail.com
You can also stay up to date with everything happening with bargaining at our new bargaining website, and with the branch on Facebook and Twitter. All of which can be found here - https://linktr.ee/myunionwroteaneba
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:18
Speaker
G'day, everyone, and welcome to My Union Wrote an EBA. This is a podcast to chronicle the progress towards a new enterprise bargaining agreement at Monash University and is brought to you by members of the Monash branch of the NTEU. We're here to take the old agreement and hashtag change it. And unlike our namesake, my dad wrote a porno to everything we can to avoid being fucked in the process.
00:00:41
Speaker
Those involved with the podcast would like to acknowledge that it is being recorded on the unceded lands of the Kulin nations, on whose lands we live, teach and work. We would like to acknowledge and pay our respects to the traditional custodians and elders, past and present, and to the continuation of the cultural, spiritual and educational practices of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land.
Expired Agreement and Pay Issues
00:01:09
Speaker
My name is Adam Fernandez and I'm your national counselor for the Monash branch. A special welcome to all our new members since the start of the month. The branch would also like to extend a special welcome to the execs at Monash or tune into our podcast. You know who you are.
00:01:26
Speaker
It has been 337 days since our agreement expired and our Vice Chancellor has earned $1,268,131 since then. Vice Chancellor, I want to thank you for taking the time to explain your apparently large increase in your pay.
00:01:46
Speaker
It is so important to restore our pay increases now that the pandemic is over. Did you forget that your staff also took a pay cut during the pandemic years? We certainly didn't. And I know that because I have bills to pay. And so do you, dear listeners. This is Adam Fernandez, signing out.
Strike Recap and Plans for Industrial Action
00:02:06
Speaker
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the podcast this week. This week, we're going to be talking about some of the industrial action we've taken recently, the PhD fixed term contract proposal, and give an update on the Fair Work Commission as well. All right. So starting off with our stop work meeting and strike from the 16th from a couple of weeks ago now, it wasn't a particularly
00:02:32
Speaker
good day in terms of the weather. It sort of intermittently poured down with rain upon us. Luckily, because it was the graduations, the university had provided plenty of ad hoc undercover areas for us to congregate, which was nice of them. We heard a series of stirring speeches from people like Branch President Ben Eltham,
00:02:53
Speaker
MSA President Seb Schultz, Grace Hill, the queer officer at the National Union of Students, as well as branch committee members, Jed Morton, Adam Fernandez, who was dressed up as a graduation bearer on the day and took photos with a bunch of people, and also Kate Clark, who was sick on the day, wonderful
00:03:13
Speaker
podcast co-host. I nearly said sitting next to me, but that would only be if we were doing this in person. We did some chants, ate some cupcakes. Some lovely graduates came and took photos with Adam as the graduation bear. And then after, you know, an hour or so, I guess, of speeches and congregating and catching up with each other and
00:03:38
Speaker
and that kind of thing. We marched from in front of the Mendez building to the lecture theatre, the science lecture theatre for an all-members meeting. We're after discussing where we wanted to go next in terms of industrial action. We move to the following motion. Noting the Monash University Enterprise Agreement expired 320 days ago. That the university's pay offer is well below CPI.
00:04:03
Speaker
that the university's offer on job security comprehensively fails to deliver for insecurely employed staff. And that the university has still not responded in data claims in many other important areas. So the meeting on the 16th of NTU Monash members resolved to continue industrial action at Monash University until acceptable offers on pay and working conditions are made specifically.
00:04:29
Speaker
To continue to make statements about why industrial action is being taken. To take industrial action in the form of work bans, pickets and operational disruptions in the first week of semester one examinations. So the week of 5th of June, 2023. To take industrial action in the form of work bans, pickets and operational disruptions on open days on the 5th and 6th of August, 2023.
00:04:55
Speaker
to take industrial action in the form of a one or more day strike in week seven of semester two, which is the week of 4th of September, 2023. And finally, to take any other industrial action as NTU Monash members see fit. So get those dates in your diary so you can be organised for the industrial actions coming up.
00:05:20
Speaker
So that motion passed overwhelmingly, both with members in the room and over Zoom. After that, we had a professional staff picnic to celebrate World Education Support Personnel Day, which is a bit of a mouthful, but it's in recognition of the work professional staff do to keep things going around the university. It was just a chance for professional staff to catch up, eat cupcakes and discuss bargaining.
00:05:47
Speaker
People from the libraries, Monash Connect, faculty-based staff, buildings, property division, campus communities, and other areas, we're all there in solidarity with
PhD Contract Proposals and Concerns
00:05:55
Speaker
one another. And in other news, in lieu of actually negotiating an enterprise agreement, Uni Management is proposing fixed-term contracts for current Monash PhD students. So being a long-term casual and a PhD student myself, this is an issue that has real-world impacts on my life.
00:06:14
Speaker
Secure work while working on my PhD would have been life changing. Unfortunately, the uni didn't consult people like me when crafting this proposal. Because of this, the current proposal does nothing to address the stipend for PhD students being below the poverty line.
00:06:33
Speaker
PhD students produce value for the university through their research. They organise conferences, they write papers, they speak to the press, and are an active and important part of Monash's research output. The fact that their appreciation is shown by paying PhD students less than minimum wage is a poor reflection on the values of Monash University.
00:06:55
Speaker
The proposal also does nothing to address the wage theft that is currently being experienced by teaching associates, which we'll talk about more in a minute when we do an update on the Fair Work Commission. And the proposal also is a really short-term solution for a problem that literally structures the whole career of PhD students if they decide to stay in academia.
00:07:19
Speaker
So speaking for many of my fellow PhD students, there's a huge amount of anxiety about finishing a PhD. For many, becoming a doctor is an incredible accomplishment that is rewarded by the university through rolling contracts with no support to begin to build our research profiles and careers.
00:07:40
Speaker
Essentially, contracts for PhD students only for the life of their PhD don't solve the problems that we face. Insecure work, wage theft, and unhealthy workloads will follow us for our whole careers. And these contracts won't. So what we need to do is we need a wholesale structural change to how we work at universities. Not the university just tinkering at the margins and not actually really doing anything to support us.
00:08:08
Speaker
PhD students want to stand with their colleagues who are not studying, not to be split off into a separate group in an attempt to divide and conquer by giving us all slightly different shitty contracts. And with that in mind, Tony and I are going to go over some key points of what is in that PhD proposal. So everyone knows what's up and everyone can make informed decisions about their employment futures.
00:08:31
Speaker
So the first question that's probably the one that's on most people's lips is at what level will these be paid at? So the answer to that is that normally, but not always, ultimately it's up to the faculty. You will start at step six of level eight, which is a full-time yearly salary of a bit under $84,000.
00:08:56
Speaker
That means that it's likely a pay cut for people that are already teaching casually. For it to come closer to not being a pay cut or maybe for it to even bump into being slightly better off, you have to take into consideration a whole bunch of other things, these sort of benefits that ongoing staff get. So things like
00:09:19
Speaker
professional development, you know, remuneration for university holidays, you get 17% employer superannuation contributions rather than the 10.5% that you would get as a casual. You would also be eligible for annual salary.
00:09:36
Speaker
incremental increases and accrued paid leave as well. It is worth noting though that particularly for that accrued paid leave, that you would only get that at the pro rata rate at which you're being employed. So it can range anywhere from 0.1 to 0.6.
00:09:56
Speaker
So you would only be getting, you know, 20 to 60% of what the full-time equivalent would be for that paid leave, which would mean that for people that would be doing things like going to conferences and stuff,
00:10:11
Speaker
If you would have to take a week off to be able to travel to the UK, the US, wherever it is for that conference, that's likely more than a year's worth of what your accrued annual leave might be, depending on what your fractional contract would be at, which is
00:10:36
Speaker
Not something the university is being particularly up front about but it's something that i think it's important for people to keep in mind. The other thing to know as well is that as it states in the phd student handbook is the phd students need to commit to four days a week of study.
00:10:55
Speaker
And some of these roles can be up to 0.6 FTE. So that would suggest that during those times that the contract is 0.6 FTE, PhD students would have to work Monday to Sunday. And apparently during semester, PhD students don't need weekends. So that's something to consider as well.
00:11:17
Speaker
Only people in proper, secure jobs get weekends, Kate. Don't be silly. Another one of the questions is around how much certainty these roles would give to PhD students. And there's been concern that, you know,
00:11:34
Speaker
People won't know exactly how much they'll be paid or what their fractional contract will be until they apply. Is there the possibility that that can change? The answer is yes, it can change and built into the structure of it is intentionally that it will change.
00:11:58
Speaker
The argument for that from the university's perspective is that your fraction will decrease outside of teaching periods, which is natural. But there's also nothing to stop that fraction changing just normally from semester to semester. So it might be that, you know,
00:12:17
Speaker
you go in expecting or hoping to be at 0.6 or 0.4 and that for whatever reason, at the start of the semester, they say to you, oh, sorry, we can only give you 0.2 this semester. That's all there is available. And one of the other things that needs to be kept in mind with that as well is that if you take up one of these PhD fixed term contracts with very, very limited exceptions, you can't hold additional casual positions in addition to that.
00:12:47
Speaker
So you can't be a casual TA as well as being a PhD fixed term teaching associate. So there's not as much wiggle room as you might think to try and ameliorate any of those.
00:13:04
Speaker
reductions in your FTA if that is something that does happen. And if you are someone who, for perfectly normal reasons, needs to have a certain amount of money to pay rent and bills and that kind of thing.
00:13:19
Speaker
And another thing to consider in tying your employment at the university to your PhD is that if for any reason you need to withdraw from your PhD, it means you will automatically lose your teaching as well, even if it's halfway through the semester. And just on another note, this will obviously also impact your students. The university has nothing
00:13:43
Speaker
no guarantees or nothing in this proposal to say what would happen to students in a case like that. So that's another thing to consider. That's probably all we'll run through in terms of the PhD proposal at the moment. But if you have any other questions, feel free to contact the union or use the podcast email address, myunionrotoneba at gmail.com.
Fair Work Commission Proceedings and Legal Tactics
00:14:06
Speaker
All right, so onto now our final topic for this week, which is the casual consultation campaign and the recent Fair Work Commission hearing about it. So some of you will remember, some of you may have been part of this campaign as well, that about 12 months ago,
00:14:26
Speaker
The NTAU delivered a petition signed by over 450 staff to the university raising a claim of underpayment regarding scheduled consultation hours that teaching associates like myself had been doing and that we had not been being paid for. After failing to get a satisfactory response from the university, surprise, surprise,
00:14:49
Speaker
The people that had been involved in beginning that campaign, so most of us members of the Monash Casuals Network and some of us also branch committee members at the union voted to
00:15:03
Speaker
proceed to federal court to basically force Monash to take action on our claim and on what we were saying. We then did that, and then less than three weeks later, in which is lightning speed for the usual speed that the bureaucracy of the university moves, Monash decided to take us to the Fair Work Commission as a way of trying to derail the federal court action.
00:15:30
Speaker
and to avoid potentially being held accountable for their alleged wage theft, which estimates run north of $10 million. What was so unusual about Monash's application to the Fair Work Commission? Well, they wanted to vary the wording of our agreement, the agreement that has expired almost a year ago now, and that we allege that they've breached. They want to do this due to an apparent ambiguity
00:15:59
Speaker
over the word contemporaneous as it relates to consultation, i.e. consultation that is or is not contemporaneous with a tutorial or lecture. And how this is remunerated. Because the law is a bit of a shit show for workers, Monash's variation application to the Fair Work Commission meant that we had to go there before we went to the federal court. Cue law and order music. So what happened the other day at the Fair Work Commission, Tony?
00:16:28
Speaker
All right, so the short version is this. From my perspective, as a layperson in the room on the day, our barrister, Siobhan Kelly, absolute legend, made a stronger argument that was more convincing and also did a better job of challenging the case of the opposing side, Bork, the Klutz lawyer acting for Monash.
00:16:47
Speaker
Um, he kind of just restated what he had already said in his rebuttal rather than challenging what Siobhan had put forward. Um, which I didn't find particularly convincing. So that might be a little bit too short, Tony. Was there a slightly longer version? Sure. Um, so the EBA, which as I said, expired nearly a year ago now, um, states the following regarding casuals and what is covered by what is known as the rolled up rate.
00:17:18
Speaker
For the purposes of payment of a tutorial or repeat tutorial rate, associated work may encompass the following activities. And then there's a list of five dot points. The fourth of which reads, quote, contemporaneous consultation with students involving face-to-face and email consultation prior to and following a tutorial, end quote. Central to Bork's argument and Monash's case is the definition of the word contemporaneous.
00:17:46
Speaker
And they pulled out this definition from the shorter Oxford dictionary, um, which had been sent through by his instructor. I don't know what his instructor, I don't know what that means. Like, it feels like a driving instructor, but I'm, I don't know what to be more firm. I'm sure there's plenty of people above board. Um, anyway, the definition that they used says the following, or this is, this is for quoting from the transcript. So in the right-hand column, about a third of the way down, you have a definition of contemporaneous.
00:18:17
Speaker
One, existing or occurring at the same time. So that definition simply cannot work. Sorry, I'm bored. This is unquoting from what he said. So that definition simply cannot work. It must mean something else with greater latitude because it is not contemplating at the same time as the tutorial, which I think is wrong, but we'll circle back.
00:18:39
Speaker
He continues, then too, of the same historical or geological period of the same age. In our submission, that's probably a better guide to what they're talking about. He then goes on to graciously say that Monash doesn't think and Monash isn't asking for contemporaneous to be considered as anywhere within the same geological period, that within a week either side of the tutorial should be fine.
00:19:06
Speaker
This means, as far as I can tell, that a casual could hold a tutorial at 8 a.m. on a Monday morning and that on 4 p.m. on a Friday afternoon, that would be reasonably expected to have a contemporaneous consultation with that student if they asked for it, would essentially relegate us to being permanently on call. Does that sound like an appealing prospect to you, Kate? Look, it doesn't sound great for tutors and also sounds pretty cheap for students as well.
00:19:33
Speaker
So you were also saying that there was another problem with their argument around how they are defining contemporaneous. Oh, yeah. So when he rules out the notion that it could be contemporaneous in this sense of existing or occurring at the same time, I just don't think that's true. So a tutorial goes for a set amount of time, right? So Monday, 8 a.m. to Monday, 10 a.m.
00:19:58
Speaker
But we don't actually start talking on the hour and then stop two hours later. There is time within that two hours, most normally in the first five minutes or the last 10 minutes where people are getting settled or getting ready to leave, respectively. Students can ask questions then. Students do ask questions then.
00:20:21
Speaker
That's apparently inconceivable to Bork and to the university. They would prefer that all consultation be considered contemporaneous so long as they are within the semester, which seems to be, you know, patently bullshit and massively exploitative. But what do I know? Yeah, I mean, that sounds like pretty classic university shiftiness. What was the union's position? So our primary position, as I understand it, and again,
00:20:49
Speaker
I am not a lawyer. A lot of what they were saying in the commission went well over my head. But as I understand it, our primary position is that Monash's variation application should be rejected outright. Monash is saying that this needs to be fixed because there is ambiguity. From our perspective, there is an ambiguity. We should be paid for the consultation hours. That's why we took them to court.
00:21:14
Speaker
And they took us to the Fair Work Commission as a way of trying to dodge that, as a way of rewriting history and turning back the clock to retrospectively justify not paying us when we should have been. I mean, that sounds pretty logical and sensible to me. Was there anything else worth talking about from the commission hearing? Less relevant to the case as such, but they definitely speak to the attitude of the university and its lawyers.
00:21:37
Speaker
The first is this weird bit in Bork's opening remarks where he detours really significantly just to shit talk me and essentially say that I don't understand how to do my job. I'm sorry, what? Yeah, so sort of two thirds of the way through his opening sort of argument, he pivots from talking about Monash's position that something needs to be done about the clause to saying that I'd given quote baffling evidence
00:22:02
Speaker
that when students come to talk to me during consultation hours, they sometimes talk about issues they are having in their own lives or ask questions about their futures. And then he says, quote, we don't know how this fits into the case. Well, then why did you bring it up, mate? Like you've taken this detour to specifically say this. Anyway, he then goes on to show that he has no idea about the reality of what we do. Like he literally says on page 24 of the transcript, they shouldn't do it.
00:22:32
Speaker
meaning, you know, talk to students and answer their questions if they have, you know, if they come to us and they have problems. The reality, though, is anyone who has actually done the job will know is that these things are almost always linked. Students come to us and they say, you know, I'm sorry, I haven't been able to see my essay. And then they explain why. And sometimes those reasons are about problems at home, about mental illness, about breakups, any number of things that
00:23:00
Speaker
are just honest reasons why they haven't been able to do something. We're not going to invite them to start an intensive therapy regime with this, but we're not going to turn them away. We're going to work with them to try and find a solution if there's one that can be found. That's not us thinking we're Sigmund Freud. It's us facilitating their education, attempting to find a way for students to be able to continue with our units and to be able to do the work that most of the time they desperately want to do.
00:23:26
Speaker
It speaks volumes about how wide the gap is between what we do and what they think we do. That for Bork, it's as simple as saying no and handballing them off to someone else. It might be the norm to be a heartless prick in some professions, but it isn't an education. Part of our job is helping people, not hurting them, especially if they've come to us for that help. Anyway, now I've taken a detour. Sorry. The other thing that was interesting was that right at the end of his closing statement,
00:23:55
Speaker
Bork let slip that from the perspective of the university quote we could still be years down the track end quote from having a new agreement which sounds to me a lot like the university is slow walking this. There's no reason an agreement should still be years away other than the university is so slow in getting back to us about our proposals and so reticent in putting forward their own.
00:24:18
Speaker
It's also worth noting that Monash can't sign off on the new agreement with us without losing standing in this Fair Work Commission case. They can only amend the agreement if people are still being covered by it. And if we have a new deal, the old one ceases to be in effect and it cannot be amended. It is relegated to history. So for as long as Monash thinks it has a chance of being able to dodge a potentially multi-million dollar wage theft case at the federal court, it'll likely drag this out.
00:24:43
Speaker
Doing that will mean slow walking bargaining for a new agreement, which is perhaps what fork is gesturing towards. That sounds rough, Tony. I'm so sorry to hear that. I also personally know quite a few of your ex-students and they only have glowing things to say about you, which is always nice. So where does the Fair Work Commission case go from here, Tony?
00:25:04
Speaker
Well, in his final comment before we adjourned, Commissioner Bell said that he would endeavor to get a decision out as soon as possible. I don't really have any frame of reference for what that means. It could be weeks, it could be months. The wheels of these things sometimes turn slowly, even when the best efforts are afoot. But once we have a result, we'll definitely let everyone know. Oh, absolutely we will.
00:25:27
Speaker
I just want to say a quick shout out to our barristers, Siobhan Kelly. She'll likely never hear this, but in the off chance that she does, please know that we all really appreciate the work that you're doing, getting up there and fighting for us. I particularly owe you an even bigger debt of gratitude because my other job, I remember of Rafwoo, the retail and fast food workers union, and Siobhan was the barrister that got a dodgy SDA, EVA thrown out that resulted in me getting about 150 bucks a week back in penalty rates.
00:25:55
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much, Siobhan, for fighting the good fight.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:26:01
Speaker
And just as well, a reminder to everyone, if you have any questions about the Fair Work Commission, the PhD fixed-term contract proposal, or further industrial action, or any questions about the EA process at all, please just give us an email at myunionrodeneba at gmail.com. And otherwise, we'll see you all next time.
00:26:22
Speaker
Alright folks, that's it for this episode. Thanks to Kate, Danny, Adam, Bernard, and Pod Daddy Sofio for all the work they've put into this, and we'll catch you next time.