Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 355: Garth Lagerwey looks back on eight years with Sounders ... and maybe more
75 Plays3 years ago
Few would argue that Garth Lagerwey's eight-season tenure as Seattle Sounders GM has been anything short of highly successful. The trophies and finals and playoff appearances are all material accomplishments. But with him up for re-election and possibly other suitors lining up, now is as good of a time as any to reflect. He spent nearly an hour talking with us about the past eight years and why he's bullish on the future.
This week's music: Perry Como - "Seattle", "RVIVR - "Ocean Song", Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia", "Your Journey Begins" - OurMusicBox (Jay Man) (CC BY 4.0)
Thanks to James Woollard, Sounders Public Address Announcer, for doing our sponsor reads. You can follow him on Twitter at @BritVoxUS - if you’re looking for a British Voice to advertise your business or non-profit, please reach out to him.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Full Pool Wines and '36 Bottles of Wine'
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of No Sadietes is sponsored by Full Pool Wines, a Seattle-based wine seller who recently released their first book, 36 Bottles of Wine. The ethos of the book, a highly curated look at wine categories that provide exceptional value right now, should be familiar to full pool readers. But there's loads of fresh content, and since it's not trying to sell any wine through the book, there's a bit more of a sass factor.
00:00:21
Speaker
And there's food. Lots of it. Fullpool's unique writing styles applied to recipes like leftover Thanksgiving, turkey, schmaltz-a-ball soup, and pregnancy nachos. This book can be purchased through Sasquatch Books.
Meet Christian Roldan and Jordan Morris
00:00:32
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! I want to say bye-bye!
Celebrating Seattle Sounders' MLS Cup Victory
00:00:46
Speaker
The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup win!
00:00:52
Speaker
important the KSA's genius. Here comes Rui Diaz through the middle to crowd it for Seattle. They have climbed the mountain and now are masters of all that they survey. Michael Odero leaves absolutely no doubt the Saldars rule the region. Seattle Saldars is convinced
How Does Seattle's Natural Beauty Enhance Life Quality?
00:01:18
Speaker
Seattle Sounders, the greatest MLS team in history. How does this one feel? This feels fucking awesome. The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle. And the hills the greenest green in Seattle.
00:01:53
Speaker
I didn't know what it was. Is that what you young people call twerking? I have no idea. I don't know.
Plans for New Seattle Sounders Facility
00:02:04
Speaker
Welcome back to a special edition of the Sounder at Heart podcast and Nos adiates. I'm Jeremiah Shan joining me today. Garth log away in his office. Uh, this is the first time we've been able to do this in like three years. That is, man. Uh, hopefully this, we can get this pandemic in the rear view mirror. Yeah. Uh, and Hey, in the meantime, this is probably the last time we ever talk here. No, that's not true. I guess it's going to be a little longer.
00:02:29
Speaker
But why don't we start there? I hadn't necessarily planned on starting here. You guys are going to be moving into a new facility in a couple of years, less than a couple of years from now.
00:02:40
Speaker
Are you at the point now where you're imagining what that's going to be like and how that might end up influencing this organization? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and that's definitely part of the process is that big picture vision of what we want that facility to be. And we're far enough along with some of the details where you're designing floor plans and rooms and spaces and that thing that we've been talking about for five years that we know we weren't able... Now we can do that.
00:03:08
Speaker
there's a whole bunch of kind of long range things that I think come to fruition in
Vision and Impact of the New Facility on Sounders
00:03:12
Speaker
that facility. And look, I think it's going to be better not just for our players, but for our staff and for the fans and for media. And, you know, I think it's just a chance to really kind of build a Sounders wonderland, if you will. Do you think it ends up changing anything about like the core elements of the Sounders or does it feel like it's just kind of raising the bar?
00:03:35
Speaker
Can it be both? I think we literally are going to get better on a lot of fronts and really build off the vision of what this was. When Starfire was built or when the Sounders occupied Starfire, I should say, that was one of the best facilities in MLS. I remember coming here when I worked for Salt Lake and
00:03:54
Speaker
taking the Chris Henderson, taking me on a tour and being like, this is unbelievable. Like, and you know, you know, it's just, it is such a beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. One. And it's a beautiful setting. When you come in here and it's the tree line avenues and there's the park and the Eagles are fishing in the green river and they're like, this is this bucolic Northwestern. Like it's, it is gorgeous. And you feel like you're part of something special, right? So it's, it's been a really good home for us here. And
00:04:19
Speaker
Hopefully, we can take the best elements of this and bring them across the street, so to speak, because I think it is kind of minimally disruptive that way as well. And then you have this awesome campus over there where again, we're part of something bigger than us as part of the UNICO project. And again, you got lakes and forests and a bunch of soccer fields. All the stuff you love about Starfire, but the saturation turned up quite a bit.
00:04:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's very exciting. Do you imagine that the offices will move before the training facility moves?
Logistics of Moving Offices Before New Facility
00:04:50
Speaker
Or is it ever going to move all over once? Look, pragmatically, yes, that's more likely. But I think that's all a function of the return to work posture. We've been fully remote on the business side now for two years. And so I think that we'll probably... I don't think that that'll be our posture permanently or anything like that.
00:05:08
Speaker
I do think that we will inevitably mirror what happens with the big employers in this, you know, in the city in the region. And so I think that's still playing out as to how that what that's going to look like with what that's going to happen. But we've always kept some footprint of you know, we kept the 90 during the pandemic, even so people can come in, they can work, there are certain groups that you know, are better function better on site and are more cohesive collectively. So
00:05:32
Speaker
I think it'll be more case by case, department by department, you know, that folks will move in and look at it again. It's part of a five story office commercial real estate project. So there are going to be some pragmatic factors of that too, just in terms of, you know, as one example,
00:05:50
Speaker
can you, is the kitchen functioning or not? And if it's not, that's not the end of the world, but then you have to go offsite to eat. And there's just practical things like that that I think will impact kind of a timeline of when do we start? How many people start? Do we all show up together at once or do we?
00:06:09
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. All that stuff. And by the way, the bathrooms to code or whatever other stuff that you have to get certified before you can occupy. So, but it's an exciting project and we're definitely going to move in there to your point. We're going to move in there in some form or fashion, I think in a year or so. And then, you know, ramp up slowly over time as to when the field, you know, that depends on when the fields get built and all the other stuff.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah, so this is also an exciting time for you, I suppose, personally, in that it's election season.
What is the Sounders' GM Vote Tradition?
00:06:40
Speaker
You know, we have, we're in the, literally the ballots have, are now officially open for the third ever Sounders GM vote. It's a very, you know, it's, it's a unique thing in North American sports. It's really a pretty unique thing in, in world sports. There's no, it's not bad turn of phrase, but it's not the most common thing anywhere in sport, let alone North American sport where it doesn't happen anywhere. But your vote, your position is obviously being, is up for election.
00:07:10
Speaker
Is this, I don't know, you're someone who likes the world of politics. Do you enjoy this a little bit? Yes and no. I mean, I enjoy it holistically in the sense that this is a really cool part of the sounders, right?
00:07:27
Speaker
amazing foundational piece, democracy and sports. And, you know, just the other, just at the last game, I was doing an event before the game and, you know, came up on two season ticket holders. And, you know, again, these are folks that I always, always like shake people's hands and congratulate like, Oh, you've been since 2009. They're like, actually since 1978 or whatever, you know, like, I'm like, Oh yeah, that doesn't happen anywhere else. Like literally it's unique to Seattle, right? That you have people that have supported the team for that long period of time. And, um,
00:07:57
Speaker
Um, you know, that's the kind of thing where like there is, this is somewhat hallowed ground in that sense that they are like, if, if those folks feel like they're okay, who am I to tell you, there shouldn't be a vote. Right. I mean, so I think there's that part of it, you know, the pragmatic aspect of, you know, the, the, the, you know, the vote could go badly. Right. I mean, and, and I'd like to think that it won't, but, uh, it started two weeks ago, maybe it would be going differently.
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, in the middle of that stretch and hopefully we've turned that around and hopefully we build momentum to playoffs now. I think we think we have. I think we will. But but look, even then, I think you step back again, you're like, OK, but this isn't about me personally, like in terms of what's good for the club, you have to put this in that context always. Right. And that's that's the idea. Right. Is if you're the GM of the Sounders, you are a steward of the club and part of this, you know, almost 50 year history.
00:08:53
Speaker
And that's what you got to kind of stay, I mean, not even stay focused on, but you got to believe in. That's part of the, that's part of the job. That's part of who it is. And look, that's why you get, you know, 40,000 people on the weekend because people are part of this. We are part of the community. It is authentic. We have fan funded fields and we're hosting the world. Like all these things that go into that, this is part of that. And I think it's important. I think, I think that holistic vision is super important when it comes to the GM vote, you know, to get out and vote and support and exercise your,
00:09:23
Speaker
You're being a part of the Sounders. I've always thought of the GM vote more of a vote on the direction of a commentary on the direction of the team than on any individual's performance in that position. Do you look at it as a personal, like people are personally judging you or do you look at it more as, okay, the Sounders have done X, Y, and Z and that's the third kind of
00:09:52
Speaker
Look, the honest answer to that is it's hard to completely divorce yourself personally, because if you lose the vote, your family has to move, right? I mean, we lose our friends in our schools and all the cool things that come into being part of Seattle, right? But look, I also recognize that no one cares about that, nor should they. I mean, it is literally personal to me in that sense. And now you do have to look at that big picture and say, it's a referendum on everything. And look, I mean, literally Adrian, as the majority owner,
00:10:19
Speaker
went through this process, right? So if the majority owner can be evaluated in terms of how's everything going, seems fair that a working guy like me can be evaluated for it. So I think that's the right
Garth Logaway Reflects on His Sounders Career
00:10:31
Speaker
perspective.
00:10:31
Speaker
Well, I think this also gives us maybe a good chance to look back on your time with the Sounders. You obviously started here in 2014, ahead of the 2015 season. When you looked at this job in 2014, you saw something that was attractive to you. I imagine that's evolved over time as you've done the job for eight years. I'm just curious.
00:10:58
Speaker
What is still driving you to get up in the morning and do this job? Look, at the end of the day, I work for a kid's game and they pay me for it, you know, and you kind of pinch yourself every once in a while and be like, this is my job. Like I, you know, I joke with my wife, like, hey, I kind of watch TV tonight, got to watch the other games, got to watch, I got to rewatch the Sounders game, you know, like, it's a good gig, you know. Is it fun still?
00:11:28
Speaker
There are days when it's fun. I can't, you know, it would be silly of me to say that it's not fun, but there's stress. And as you would also expect, and, you know, eight years here, 15 years in overall, you know, the good news is we've had some success with the Sounders. You know, the other side of it is like any job you do,
00:11:51
Speaker
You do it for long enough. You know where the moles are too. It's important to have a positive attitude. The thing that's fun is working with the people on the soccer side of the business and the 40 people over here and how we came through the pandemic and people that were the frontline workers.
00:12:13
Speaker
how well organized we were and, you know, the tip of the cap, certainly Chris Cornish specifically on that and Dr. Norsen and the Virginia Mason staff that kept us, Dr. Morris, the folks who kept us safe. So, you know, that's the kind of stuff that is, you know, I think it's own reward, so to speak. So, yeah, I'm rambling, but, you know, yes, it's a fun job and, you know, look, you get,
00:12:42
Speaker
What I would say is, I'd say the longer it goes, the less any game matters. But the more focus you get on bigger picture stuff. And so like Champions League was, that was a historic thing. And we planned and schemed that we, you know, Weibull came up with this injury prevention program so we could get perfect rotation of our player, not perfect, but the best we could rotation of players between league games and
00:13:06
Speaker
Champions League and you know worked on that with the performance staff and the coaches the medical staff and it was just really high level of coordination and it was a really intricate thing and so like that was really fun to work on to then have this historic
Memorable Moments with the Sounders
00:13:19
Speaker
outcome and you know look I have said this in other places but you know
00:13:24
Speaker
When the second goal is scored, and there's 70,000 people, for the second time, by the way, because after 2019, we've replicated this incredible thing. Again, to come back to the foundations of why this is a cool job, they're just maybe in Atlanta, but there's no other place in America that you could put that crowd together and to do it twice in four years, I guess, in 19 and 22.
00:13:49
Speaker
And then the flashlights come on. And it was like a spiritual experience. I stand by that. And I'm an atheist, so maybe I'm not appreciating spirituality enough. But people are literally swaying back and forth. And I don't know that anyone was singing. But it was this incredibly shared, it was like being at a rock concert. I mean, it was a shared moment that we all collectively had together. And then we scored the third goal. And you thought the building was going to collapse.
00:14:18
Speaker
That will be with me forever. Like that. I can't imagine having a memory that's better than that. And my family was there with me and like it was like it was everything you'd ever hope. Like what do you work in sports for? It was that. And so, you know, a long-winded way to say, I don't know if I get up for the midweek game in March sometimes anymore, but, uh, you know, if you're working on these big things, these big picture things that are literally for immortality.
00:14:48
Speaker
That's fun. And that's challenging. And that's rewarding. So you were a fair number of hats. I mean, quite literally, you're the president of soccer and GM and chief soccer officer of the Sounders.
00:15:02
Speaker
And I imagine that requires you to have your fingers in parts of this organization that you don't necessarily have if you are just like the GM or you're not just a talent evaluator, you're not just hiring people, you're doing a little bit of everything presumably. But if you were to write your job description and say, this is what I have to do better than anyone else to be successful, what do you think that is?
00:15:31
Speaker
I'm trying to answer this humor. Let's shoot with some humor first, which is my wife asked me, what is it that you actually do? And, you know, my answer is I generally manage. So it's a version of that where I'm a mile wider than in steep. I have to, as you said, I have to be involved in lots of different things and I have to be competent in most of those things.
00:15:52
Speaker
But at least with my management style, what I really need to do is hire experts in each one of those fields and then get the experts working together toward that bigger overall goal. And if I do that, then I figured out the best story that I can tell about this is I came here and we had a staff of 11 people at Salt Lake. And I came here
00:16:12
Speaker
Chris Henderson, who I had known forever and had a good relationship with coming in. Chris could have sunk me or made me. He was incredible, wonderful from day one, accepting. He didn't have to do any of that. I was literally the new guy that was imposed on him.
00:16:32
Speaker
And we had conversations early on, and I worked out that this guy's a really elite talent evaluator. And yeah, I had done that for Salt Lake, but I was like, well, what's the thing I can do to make this relationship work, knowing that Chris has really done me more than a solid? All right, well, I'm going to keep him doing what he was doing. He's done a great job on talent evaluation. I'm going to keep him in that role, and I'm going to empower him to go further with it. And so what kind of clicked there was,
00:16:59
Speaker
you know, I can work harder and I can make myself 2%, 5% better, something like that. But now that I'm at the sounders and there are 40 people here instead of 11, the real, it's not magic, but the real systematic difference you can make is if you can make
00:17:14
Speaker
8 or 10 department heads, 2 to 5% better. Now all of a sudden the organization's 40% better, and now everything is holistically. And at that time, S2 existed, but there was not an academy in a functioning sense. I mean, again, it existed, but it was literally-
00:17:32
Speaker
That's too, hadn't played a game. So that was being built from scratch. And so you had this kind of bare bones infrastructure and the academy was, I think was part-time employees for the most part. Maybe there's one or two full-time guys and any, and not that those folks didn't work their tails off, like to the contrary, they probably did more work, you know, for less money and, and all that. But we, we, we identified early on that that was a space that we really needed to invest in infrastructure wise. And, and again, like this is the kind of stuff too. Then you find out in your right place, if you're in the right place or not, because infrastructure.
00:18:03
Speaker
literally has no ROI most of the time, right? It is just, I'm asking for money to do this thing that will pay off in five years, six years, seven years. It's the ultimate, trust me, I know what I'm doing kind of thing.
00:18:17
Speaker
And look, player development hadn't been a part of the Sounders traditionally. I mean, we need to acknowledge that, right? And so I give Adrian credit. He gave me a chance to kind of put this program together. And again, I think it's paid off, you know, won three youth championships now. And the MLS NP team is has a chance to win the whole to win the supporters shield on Friday. And, you know, hopefully they have a chance to win a championship.
00:18:43
Speaker
Um, and obviously the first team has, has won three titles as well. So, um, you know, we're, we built an organization, you know, when I, when I, what I like to say, Jeremiah is this was, this is a soccer team when I came here. Um, and I believe now we've built a soccer club. And again, I don't mean that in any kind of.
00:19:00
Speaker
derogatory manner toward what came before. We've invested on many different levels, now many different platforms. And again, ownership took a risk with that. And they made significant investments. And I think that's the stuff that people don't see. And it's worth my singing the praises of the ownership here in the sense that they've consistently reinvested our fans' hard-earned money back in the club. And they've done it, I think, in strategic ways that are going to be a long-term benefit to the club.
00:19:30
Speaker
So I guess this is a question that you can either take as one answer or maybe it's two questions, but how do you either see this job evolving in order to keep like you excited about it or what do you think you're like eventually someday down the road, whether it be in six months or six years or six years.
00:19:53
Speaker
But a long time ago. Hopefully I'm not working at 60 years. Hopefully you're not working at 60 years. That was a very depressing thing that just came out of my mouth. But I mean, what's the next, I guess, what's the next challenge that you're looking for is maybe the easier way to end the one question. Yeah, look, I will answer this again in an attempt at humor, but every time there's an article written somewhere that speculates about what might happen, you know, in the future and stuff like that, my wife always comes up to me and she usually gives me a nice hug and says,
00:20:23
Speaker
none of these people ever call me and I'm the one who's going to make this decision. So why are they bothering with these articles? So, you know, it's one of those where we're like, look, you know, to go back to the, you know, to the, with the job stuff. I mean, Seattle is awesome and the community is awesome and, you know, friends and schools and, you know, stuff like that. Like we were just over at our,
00:20:49
Speaker
our neighbors don't be your audience
Family Life's Influence on Career Decisions
00:20:51
Speaker
doesn't care about this. So I won't go on, but I mean, it's, it's, we have a good life and, and that means a lot and the family means a lot and the family's happiness means a lot. And I think, yes, there's always going to be career things and are you challenged and all that stuff. But I think you got to weigh that always against family. I mean, even going back to when I came here, you know, I, again, I don't know what ultimately would have happened, but there was another club that, that, you know, had mooted the idea of me going as the CEO there and,
00:21:18
Speaker
Purely career-wise, maybe that was the right choice, but family-wise, this was the right choice. And so, you know, family has a way of, I think, really informing that. And I think that's the right balance. I mean, if you want to be happy and, you know, if you want to have fun days and stuff like that, then I think that goes a long way and that's where you have to weigh. And so, you know, we'll have to see how it plays out. Although I actually think that's a very useful answer for what it's really, I don't know if you're trying to avoid it, but I feel like there is, I don't know.
00:21:46
Speaker
I don't want to give it, give my thoughts too much away, but that felt like, I don't know how much insight you meant to give there, but that felt like interesting that you, uh, that, I mean, it does sound like family is like, it's one thing to say it, but it, it, it feels like a real consideration for you that like the happiness of your kids and you've got kids, three kids in school. Now you've got a wife who seems to be enjoying the Seattle area, which I'm guessing factor into whatever you do.
00:22:16
Speaker
Yeah, look, our neighborhood is beautiful. When you go take the dog for a walk, we're not that far from Washington. You can go to a public park down the road and we're in Kirkland so folks can imagine. There are turtles and a blue heron and an osprey and eagles fishing. I grew up in Chicago.
00:22:38
Speaker
It flattens cornfields. Like that's, that's, that's what it is. And then you gotta fight the traffic to get downtown and you can see it there. But like, you know, it's the same with Seattle, right? I mean, the pews are, but like, even to stay on it, you know what I do sometimes share my is after games, before games. And I come in depending on what time sometimes more often before games, night games, um, you go to, you drive up to the top of the parking deck at, at Looman. And as you know, you from a parking garage,
00:23:05
Speaker
anywhere, maybe anywhere in the world. Yes. So you know what I'm talking about. Yes. So you get up there and I get out of the car and I'm just like, man, this doesn't suck. And you get those pink skies over here. Even when we did the nightfall jersey, when I was first suggested, I was like, pink, it's odd. And then I thought about it and I looked at the pictures we had from the archives and stuff and I was like,
00:23:30
Speaker
That's stunningly breathtakingly beautiful. And again, to what's important in life, right? That natural beauty, you can't find it everywhere. And it's worth thinking about how that impacts your life, right? Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned the
Playing D&D with Family: Garth Logaway's Experience
00:23:49
Speaker
kids. This feels like a good transition into this. You have previously mentioned that you re-entered the realm of
00:23:59
Speaker
Um, how, how has that been? Have there been any, like, is that is still an ongoing, you still have ongoing adventures with your, with your boys. And, uh, I don't know. Do you, do you learn things about yourself in, in like putting the cloak back on and I assume you're the dungeon master?
00:24:16
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. No, no, no, that's all pretty good. Um, and, and, and again, I will, I will, I'll tell this through the lens of my, my 10 year old. Um, he already knows more about it than I do. And, and, and so he was like, you know, daddy, you're supposed to do this and this and this year. Like he kind of just like rolls, roll. He'll roll his eyes at me and be like, dad, did you really, you should really include this and that.
00:24:42
Speaker
So there's an element that, you know, look, it's first and foremost, I'm, I get to be dad and we get to have fun with them. And, you know, you're using your imagination, right? And, um, I always loved the South Park episode where they, um, you know, they had Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and a bunch of the characters, you know, they say sometimes you're imaginary, it's literally the imagination land trilogy. So we're going to really get into,
00:25:01
Speaker
our loserdom here. The big line at the end is sometimes your imaginary friends are more important than your actual friends. Just the idea of ideologically to be able to imagine a couple of things. Again, when you look at the world through a kid's eyes and you can create something to imagine it together, that's really cool. The picture in my office that I kind of
00:25:24
Speaker
Center on is there's it's a picture of my two oldest boys and they're chasing bubbles in our backyard and the bubbles are framed and you can see that rainbow and it's a pretty picture but it's just like look if I do anything today that is as happy as them chasing those bubbles when they were four and six years old like
00:25:44
Speaker
That's that's that's the point that's that's that's that's what we are aiming for here. So Again, I don't know that I make it there every day, but we strive for that So at long-winded way to say I am I am a basic level D&D player I don't want to oversell that like my ten-year-old knows literally more than I do about it and look somebody's just like when I played
00:26:08
Speaker
Not shockingly, when I played 40 years ago, not everything had developed as much as it is now, and it's now more sophisticated and more colored and more layered. And so you wind up telling the story, and that part is really fun. But a lot of it, honestly, is just seeing how enthusiastic they are about it, and the idea that they can create a character, and they have agency then about this avatar of theirs. And that's the fun part. It's being a dad that's... Would you recommend this for
00:26:36
Speaker
parents to pick up? Yeah, I would. I mean, and not least of which, because Wizards of the Coast is a Seattle company. I mean, the inventors and purveyors of, and maybe not the inventors, but I think, I can't remember whether they originally did it or they bought it. But, you know, it's a local company. You are doing the right thing by supporting it. And again, I think the other cool thing about Dungeons and Dragons has always been you can make it whatever you want to make it. You know, you can have any kind of adventure you want. You can put it in any kind of campaign around the world.
00:27:04
Speaker
Um, you know, and so you can tweak it and tailor it to what you, what you want to do, but it, look, Jeremiah, I mean, to answer your question again, like I've done interviews this year about the Avengers, Dungeons and Dragons. You and I have had hour long conversations about comic books and the MCU.
00:27:22
Speaker
I'm not convinced that, for better or worse, this is my tribe, I think. Look, I don't mean to tar everyone with that terrible brush and be associated with me and all my flaws and faults, but I guess the other thing I come back to is just
00:27:42
Speaker
to always kind of approach these things with humility because it certainly can be worse, it certainly has been worse. And again, you want to be fulfilled, you want to be challenged, but if you approach it with humility, the fun things, it all kind of comes back to the same things. What's fun? It's putting a whole bunch of people together. It's building an organization.
00:28:03
Speaker
It's working collectively on something that's bigger than you. If you have, in Seattle, all of these smart people doing all of these different creative things, then you can do even media interviews where you talk about this stuff. I do think that that's unique. I do think that if nothing else eight years ago, we made the right decision.
00:28:31
Speaker
Full Pool Wines are based in Seattle, owned and operated by Sanders fans, and have been sponsoring Nota Adieira since 2011. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest. Their model is simple. One, they email compelling offers.
00:28:50
Speaker
Two, you request bottles that sound appealing, and three, your wine arrives at their soda warehouse and is ready for pickup or shipping. Their soda tasting room is also open to the public. If you're interested in joining their mailing list or learning more about them, visit fullpaulwines.com.
00:29:10
Speaker
Thanks to Watson's Counter for sponsoring this episode. Located in Ballard, Watson's Counter is your neighborhood specialty coffee shop, brunch spot, and now, coffee roaster. Sourcing exclusively high-scoring coffees, Watson's Counter has started their coffee roasting project to showcase amazing coffees grown around the world. Their first featured coffee is the beautifully complexed, washed Ethiopian Odola.
00:29:32
Speaker
Follow them on Instagram at Watson's Counter to keep up with all the upcoming releases or check out their website at www.watsonscounter.com. Whether you want to stop by for your daily coffee to go or sit down for delicious Korean inspired brunch, Watson's Counter has got you covered.
00:29:52
Speaker
So, you know, I would imagine in those eight years, I have to assume seeing the way that you reacted to winning champions league, that has to be your top sporting memory.
00:30:04
Speaker
Uh, but do you have favorite, like, uh, like whether it be. No, just let me jump in here, drill quick, Joe. And just cause the one argument that I've read online is, uh, you know, Hey, Garth might want to move cause he's accomplished everything he can. Like who gets tired of winning? Like who, like that one's bizarre to me. Like, Oh, I I've won so much. I don't want to win anymore. Like, like I would, I must have to, I have to leave because we keep winning. Like that was weird. Like anyways, but go on. I was skeptical of that particular one for what it's worth.
00:30:33
Speaker
But yes, that is a I don't know people that get tired of winning. And it's a weirdly it's a not to get to not this very well scripted interview I have here. But I I always think it's a funny thing because I don't think we ask this question of people in other sports. Like we don't ask the GM of
00:30:57
Speaker
the we don't ask Bill Belichick if he it's time to move on because like where are you gonna think are you tired of winning with the Patriots like what's what's what's the you know it's like no it's accepted that if you keep winning that continues to be its own like the continue winning is its own
00:31:16
Speaker
And look, the league gets better every year, right? And it gets more complicated than ends. Yeah. So I think there's a continuous challenge.
Sounders' Achievements and Sports Management Goals
00:31:27
Speaker
Fair enough. But yeah, I mean, do you have a favorite either? These are kind of two questions. Do you have a favorite memory that's soccer related off the field that may be not related to like a game? And do you just sort of have a favorite Seattle memory like of like in these eight years?
00:31:47
Speaker
Yeah. So, I mean, look, the, the first one I think is, again, I don't know how profound this is, but I coached my, my now eight year old and, and when he was four or five and you know, my, my little one right now is four and just like,
00:32:02
Speaker
When you go to the local public park and your coach are playing in peewee ball, again, there's no more pure form of joy than on a sunny Saturday morning, watching your kid run around and play and stuff like that. It's like a happy thing to think about and to do.
00:32:21
Speaker
In terms of non-soccer memory, the pandemic was tough, man. It was tough on a lot of people, and you're isolated and stuff. We've kept this kind of core group. I wouldn't say that we have lots and lots of runs. My wife does, but I'm not able to maintain lots of friendships outside.
00:32:40
Speaker
But we have these couple friends and we've really become long-term friends because their kids are similar ages and we've grown up and we went through this pandemic together. For kids' birthdays, we had to come up with all these creative things. We did one where everybody lined up and drove their cars past the house and honked their horns. One of my sons waved at them and stuff. Early in the pandemic, that was all you could do.
00:33:02
Speaker
But we got, as it progressed, and we would go and we would meet in parks, because then at that point, it was kind of like, hey, this is still really scary. But if you go outside, probably you're OK. And the way it worked was the parks were all open, because people weren't going to work all the time and stuff. So anyway, we did this. And my wife came up with this obstacle course, what we called the Olympics. And we had a couple of the kids that had birthdays around similar ages. And so we had a couple of families.
00:33:30
Speaker
had this Olympics course where you're running over stuff and jumping stuff. And we had a tube and I don't know how to describe it, you know, those recording things that literally like four-year-olds kind of crawl through, like when they're learning how to crawl and stuff. And we had one with dinosaurs on it and stuff like that. And again, it's meant for four-year-olds. But one of the things was, you know, you do your running and jumping. And then the last one was you got to dive through the tunnel and then, you know, get up and go to the finish line. And
00:33:54
Speaker
Um, suffice to say, Jeremiah, I'm not, I'm not a small man and, uh, I did this, I did this and, uh, I didn't, I didn't, I made it out eventually, but there was, there was a little bit of friction in terms of getting me through the tube. Um, it was, yeah, there was no honey available to, to unstick me, but, but I did have to kind of wiggle my way out and, uh,
00:34:16
Speaker
my wife, who's always supportive and loving, uh, made sure that she documented that, uh, with pictures and stuff. And, um, there are people looking on and horror in the background, you know, wondering if I'm in physical pain or danger or anything like that. And of course I wasn't. Yes. Yes. Yes.
00:34:31
Speaker
The result of all this was that a series of pictures, and I was able to make my wife a throw pillow for Mother's Day. I didn't make it to be clear. I ordered it, but I was able to use the pictures. And so we have a throw pillow that has me emerging from the child-size tube that is now sitting prominently in our living room. And so to this day, years later now, at least two years later, my wife will laugh every single time. And she tells me she's laughing with me.
00:35:00
Speaker
It doesn't always feel that way, Jeremiah. It's a little bit of laughing at me. Let's do it after a fight. Yes. So anyway, that was a cool way to celebrate a birthday during the pandemic and everybody had a great time and that was a special day.
00:35:18
Speaker
So I don't know if this counts as a soccer memory, but it's a memory related to soccer that I think a lot of Sounders fans will recall fondly. But you gave a speech prior to the Champions League final on the field.
00:35:33
Speaker
Take me behind the scenes of that. Did you write it? Was it freestyle? Who were you channeling? Well, first of all, there was more traffic for that game than any sounders game I've been to in eight years. I think there's a concert and a Mariners game. So I'm not exaggerating when I say that I had to just
00:35:58
Speaker
I just barely made it. And like, and as I pulled into the parking garage, like they were ready to, for me to walk out on the field and like, I like drifted my car like in without stopping, you know, and just like, just shoved it up against the wall and like literally ran to the field. So I wouldn't, I don't know if it was.
00:36:14
Speaker
calmest frame of mind I've ever been in when I, I'm not exaggerating. I did not, from the time I entered the parking garage to when I began speaking, I was at no point was I lower than like a slow jog at the very least in order to make it. Cause we had a six minute window or something like that. So, um, uh, you know, but it was, yes, it was, uh, it was, it was scripted. We wrote it and, and, uh,
00:36:36
Speaker
Uh, and certainly it was practiced and prepared and all that stuff. And, and I was aware that the acoustics might not be great. Cause I think a lot of people who liked it, liked it more after the fact. And so it was one of those where you could, you kind of wanted to do it with a cadence in the sense of.
00:36:56
Speaker
The only way to interact with a crowd would be to kind of say something and then wait. Yeah. And then let's, you know, as you build in, and it's in the exact science. But that was what I think played out. And, and, you know, given that, uh, you know, we said, you know, it was, it was, I think people were excited. Like at the end of the day, it was authentic, right? So yeah, you sold 70,000 tickets. Yes.
00:37:16
Speaker
Yes, and I don't know that I did. But we did. And I got enough compliments. And I think on your website, there was a motivational video that was memed off of that and stuff like that. So again, with that humility, people are making funny. Then probably that means they're enjoying it. So anyway, I think it was part of the ecosystem of the Champions League. It was a lot of fun to do. And I think it was one of those things that was
00:37:44
Speaker
You know, I think it was well prepared. If nothing else, I don't know how it, you know, ultimately it seemed like it was well received, but we certainly, we tried hard to make the best impression we could.
00:37:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think it's hard to argue with the end results at the very, very least. But it was a lot of fun to... I think the energy was what people were responding to. Like you said, like it was... I worked 11 years for that Jeremiah. I mean, 11 years. And like, I'm not exaggerating that story. Like I put that picture up on my fireplace and I looked at it every day for 11 years. I didn't think I would get a chance to do that. And so I think that comes through as well as this was.
00:38:22
Speaker
This was it. Like, this was that thing that I had worked my whole career for. And again, it's not personal. But if you ask where the energy came from, I mean, when ECS invited me up after the game, I mean, I had some energy then, too. Yeah, you did. You had some energy in the post game, too, for us in the mix zone. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I remember, I think Sam Staysco was making fun of me that I was bouncing up and down or something like that while I was... Yeah, I was standing next to Sam and I had to say, that's a bear. That's a bear.
00:38:51
Speaker
So I mean, you guys have known me for a while. So I mean, it just was that I couldn't believe it. It was awesome. Yeah, that was gone. I was going and, and, and yeah, we just credit to our players, man. Our players are amazing. And, and, uh, you know, they worked so hard at that. I was to, to have accomplished that historic thing as a classic club. It's just, that's just awesome to say. And then we'll be with the sounders forever.
00:39:12
Speaker
So, you know, the thing you were actually glowing about in that postgame and that, you know, in that discussion, if I remember correctly, was you seem really, really genuinely excited about getting a spot in the club World Cup.
Club World Cup Prospects for Sounders
00:39:30
Speaker
You know, it's gone through some roller coasters in terms of what's going to happen. It's looking, I think maybe you know more than me. It looks like it could happen. It looks like it might even happen in the United States, which would be, I have to imagine way beyond what you had ever really thought was possible. We change our preseason. Yeah. I mean, how does that, how does playing, like assuming it happens or no, actually that's the wrong way of putting this. How does.
00:39:54
Speaker
whether or not the club World Cup happens this, you know, presumably in the upcoming off season, preseason I guess would be a better way of putting it.
00:40:04
Speaker
How does that impact the way that you build the roster? This is going to sound strange, I think, Jeremiah, but I don't know that it does. Here's what I mean. We don't know yet when, we don't know where, and we don't know yet when the transfer windows are going to be. So if the transfer windows were lined up as they were this year,
00:40:27
Speaker
we wouldn't literally, and it were played, you know, if the tournament's played in early February and the transfer window opens in mid February, there is a scenario under which we can't sign any players. Now, again, do I think that there'll be in a comment? Like, I think we'll find a solution to that, to be clear. But like, that's the level of where we're at in terms of planning and trying to adapt to this. And so there's just a ton of uncertainty around it. I don't know more than you. I mean, we have nothing in writing from anyone about the tournament.
00:41:04
Speaker
I really didn't know that that that was coming from. I mean, it seems like the papers that are mostly reporting on it are in Spain and they're mostly papers that are.
00:41:14
Speaker
like affiliated with. We all legit. Interesting. You know, look, and always what I would say is in my experience that those big clubs have their own agendas as well. And they certainly have the ability to push those into the media and influence FIFA. And suffice to say that we're not influencing FIFA here. We're going to, for better or worse,
00:41:37
Speaker
We're going to wait and see how it plays out. And, you know, I do think that the competition is going to get held based on what we know. Um, but beyond that, I know, you know, I don't know how to plan for something when I don't have any of those things. It's, it's, uh, you know, so, so yeah, we'll get excited, but look, I, I just, again, logistically it's two to three games. And so are you going to sign? I mean, just, just rationally, are you going to sign up a player for two to three games? Like.
00:42:06
Speaker
And you still don't know if you have added resources, right? The league still has not said, if you guys qualify, you're going to get X amount added. And I think the answer to that question is probably going to be nothing. Yeah, nothing. And as we've talked about in other forums, we had three years of flat salary cap. And because we kept winning, we pushed all of those salaries back in the next year.
00:42:31
Speaker
Again, this is, this goes back to the summer and everything we've talked about, but you know, we are, we're effectively paying the Piper next year for the last run of success. And I, and I, you know, again, you can undo that. You can, you, there's always things you can do, but I think you're going to want to balance like, okay, what's the chance of winning the club world cup? Sure.
00:42:52
Speaker
I'm not sure how likely that is. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, do you want to risk JP's ACL reconstruction on playing a game the first week of February? Now he might, to be clear, he might be fine, but if he's not,
00:43:10
Speaker
Do you go all in for two games or do you look at, because next year, keep in mind that the MLS fundamentally changes next season. It's not just the salary cap, but it's the structure of the season. So you have now 34 league games. You have potentially seven league's cup games.
00:43:28
Speaker
Right plus open cup. So now as a plus playoffs, so you're probably playing a good team at least is playing 45 games a year and a minimum so literally a Champions League schedule every single season with the By the way champions, someone's champions league itself. Yes, it's gonna also be be there exactly exactly and and obviously we have to win MLS Cup to qualify for Champions League and but someone some team is gonna be it. Yes, I
00:43:54
Speaker
And so, you know, it is not in, you know, when we heard of like last year, you know, when Liverpool played the last game, it was their 60th game or something like that. When they, when they played or man city, one of the two of them, I think it was Liverpool when they played in the final was, it was Liverpool. Cause that was their 16th game.
00:44:10
Speaker
I don't know that anybody's going to get to 60, but we could be in the fifties and like it fundamentally changes how you approach a season and you have to have more players, like more players that you are playing. You have to rotate your team more and you have to evolve because you have to understand then how to, yes, we're always going to try to win every competition. We're always going to put out a fair effort, but
00:44:35
Speaker
I think there's a little bit of this, well, if you play a couple of young kids or if you play some of the reserves, you're not trying to win that game. That means you're not putting a priority on that competition. I just don't think that's true. I had a version of this conversation with Casey on the TV broadcast the other day.
00:44:53
Speaker
That's also not how it works in Europe. You don't play 13 guys 60 times. You have a 24 to 30 man squad and you rotate that squad. And that's how you manage that game load. And we have to do the same things. Long-winded way to say, yes, the two to three games we have, if it's in February, super important. But I honestly don't think we're going to get embarrassed. I mean, I think we have a very good team.
00:45:17
Speaker
I don't view, you know, is real material better than us? Yeah. On paper, I would concede that. But, you know, the, you know, the other teams, you know, I don't think that we're gonna, we need to approach this and be like, Oh, we gotta make sure we're not embarrassed. We're gonna be fine. We're a good team. But likewise, again, do you emphasize the two or do you emphasize the
00:45:37
Speaker
the 45. And I think no matter how tempting this, this, the two are, uh, so you probably have to weigh as much the 45, uh, in terms of how you approach that. Do you think the way champions league ended up having, I think an undeniable impact on the regular season affects your thinking or was this sort of vaguely within your expected
00:46:07
Speaker
Like you probably knew there would be some struggles. I don't know if you knew the degree, but I don't know. Does it change? Did like, did going through that process change the way you would view it in the future?
00:46:19
Speaker
No, I mean, look, for better or worse, Jeremiah, I believe what I believe at this point. I believe in player development. I believe in playing young players. I believe in you can structure things as long as you have a set system where a number of young players can succeed. If you surround them with veterans and put them in positions to succeed and you play them consistently.
00:46:42
Speaker
conceptually, I believe and I believe I certainly wouldn't change anything we did with Champions League, right? I mean, we won, we did something no one's ever done before. So, you know, kind of whatever the cost of that, I'll pay. Now, do I want to miss the playoffs? No. And I don't think that we should. I mean, I think that there's a scenario in which we're favorite in every game the rest of the way. It doesn't make it easy. And it's in fact, it's very, very hard. I mean, that's why, you know, websites like FiveThirtyEight have us with a 29% chance because
00:47:10
Speaker
Um, you know, we haven't previously won six games in a row, but we certainly are capable of that, you know, and, and, uh, you know, as recently as I think it was June 25 or July two, we were playing at the second highest points per game clip post champions league. Um, and so, you know, women, you know, just the last game, you know, we were fielding seven best 11 players. And in the entirety of the Sounders history, I think they've had.
00:47:34
Speaker
14 or 15 best 11, you know half of which are playing right now for this team on the weekend And that's with two out in JP and Christian roll dance. So this is this is a really good team and so if you To tie back to Ruth Club World Cup and stuff then, you know, I don't think we're gonna get embarrassed Maybe that's naive but that's not my concern And then it's just a question of how much how all in do you go there versus you know? The balance of the rest of the the season what's good for the group? I
00:48:03
Speaker
So one of the other costs, I guess, of the Champions League was, and you've been upfront about this, but you really pushed your chips into the beginning of the season. You put as good of a roster as you could put out really from first kick.
00:48:18
Speaker
But the end result of that was that there wasn't much room for doing a lot in the summer. Was this a tough summer for you? I know you guys didn't do nothing. You spent a lot of time looking at various possibilities, but was it a hard summer to go through and seeing like, man, I'd love to do this move, but we just can't?
00:48:40
Speaker
Yeah, look, it was, it was a test of faith, if you will. Like we had this plan. Again, we knew the downsides of the plan and, you know, we had seen the upsides of it and it was almost like the upsides having won the Champions League kind of steeled us for, you know, as we chased rabbits down various holes, you know, again, like
00:49:00
Speaker
You and I talked before the interview about Mendez going to LAFC and stuff like that. We were offered Mendez. A bunch of the guys that moved, we were offered. All of which were significant investments. If you did it, that would cost you a starter next year.
00:49:19
Speaker
that was, that was it. And it was, you know, if you believe that the team is really good and if you believe that you have young players that are really good, um, which I do when we do, um, you know, and, and look at little play out now, right? I mean, lay even attention. I have both been very good for us for parts of two years. And
00:49:39
Speaker
we're going to make it or not make it in part because of their efforts. Now, again, you've surrounded them with nine other veterans and I think put them in a position to succeed. And you've played them consistently now and given them the best chance to succeed. So we're going to see it play out. And, you know, are we always reflecting and always second guessing ourselves? And like, yeah, that's that's what you should be doing. But I do think again, if, you know, the theme of the organization, you know, what's what's how does the vote drive this? What's the culture club like?
00:50:09
Speaker
For the long-term sounders what we
MLS Growth Leading to 2026 World Cup
00:50:13
Speaker
did was the right thing. I feel confident of that answer and You know, we got to live with that one way the other and we'll look we'll find out if it was right and and making if we make the playoffs will be some Indication of that, you know, like like it that was you know, that was the bat is can you Can you go forward with this group with these talented young players and make the playoffs?
00:50:36
Speaker
without having sacrificed what next year could be, which we believe could be another championship winning team. You know, I guess looking a little farther ahead and taking a broader view as well, MLS is sort of gearing up for positioning itself ahead of the 2026 World Cup. I don't know. From your perspective, what do you think MLS really needs to do to
00:51:11
Speaker
I think the Apple deal's really interesting, the idea of global distribution. And I think one of the things that'll play out, this is the stuff now, Jeremiah big picture stuff that's really fun to think about. Nobody's really had a global TV deal yet. Like you've sold different rights and even the Premier League in Asia and different places and maybe the World Cup is the only truly global television rights kind of thing. But I think it's really interesting. And if you reach a truly global audience through Apple,
00:51:31
Speaker
and as good of a position as it can be.
00:51:40
Speaker
Does that spur all of these other ecosystems to come to life around MLS? I think a lot of people are still fascinated, at least historically, with America. I think MLS hasn't gotten the respect that maybe it deserves. That's why fundamentally winning Champions League is worth doing. It's really hard.
00:51:59
Speaker
But it was worth trying because I do think that that's the first step. Now that's not the whole mountain. You've climbed the mountain once, now you're going to stay on top of the mountain. But the League's Cup thing I think is going to be really, really awesome in terms of the profile of MLS. And as we build toward the World Cup.
00:52:14
Speaker
soccer is only going to get bigger. I mean, if you look at the valuations, I think Forbes and Sportico, I think if they haven't come out, they're coming out soon again about the MLS teams and that stuff is consistently ticked up and stuff. And I just think there's going to be a ton of investment in the sport. I mean, there's going to be a ton of investment in Seattle specifically as well in terms of hosting the World Cup. And if you look at that infrastructure going in place all around the United States,
00:52:41
Speaker
It's pretty exciting. I just remember when I was working at the law firm in DC. I was offered the RSL job at the time. Most of the people thought I was nuts. You're at a Fortune 500 law firm. You've got a career path here that's stable and steady.
00:53:03
Speaker
What are you doing? You're going to the worst team in the league that might fail. And, you know, this is kind of the bet. You know, this, this was, I didn't know when we'd host the world cup. I didn't know if we would, you know, but like post the world cup, like that's, that's kind of a lifetime of work for a lot of people. I think culminating and I'd even say, you know, members of the media and stuff, you know, what, what's, cause I think the whole ecosystem is going to grow and be elevated.
00:53:25
Speaker
And I think there are going to be more and more opportunities for everyone that's in that ecosystem. And then I think we see what it can be. And I'm really excited to be part of it. And again, other questions that have been asked over the last months and years, do you want to go to Europe and stuff? And I just can't fathom
00:53:45
Speaker
going to Europe right now before the World Cup comes to America. And maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems like the opportunity of a lifetime.
00:53:57
Speaker
I mean, it does. It really does. And I don't know, that feels probably like a good place to end this. I really appreciate the time you've given me, you've given our listeners. I'm hopeful that we'll have another opportunity to have these conversations. And I'll give a personal plug. I think
00:54:21
Speaker
whether or not you vote to retain Garth as the GM of the Senators, I think it's really important for people to just go out and vote in this thing. I've said this a million times, but I do think what makes this vote special is not so much that it's an opportunity to fire otherwise successful GM. It's that it sends a message that this is an important part of our culture and that hopefully in 10, 20, 30 years,
00:54:48
Speaker
Uh, if this, you know, when we get to, you know, the whole point that when, uh, when Drew Carey thought of this thing, it was because it was the Browns were driving them crazy. And it's like keeping in mind that it's like, uh, you know, the good times might last forever. And it's important to have a process like this, I think in place. And at the very least, uh, you know, it gives, I don't know. I, I don't know if it, if it changes the way you do your job, but I would imagine it makes it feel a little bit more like visceral and real that like,
00:55:16
Speaker
the fans can can like make a binding vote about your performance essentially it looks and it's said a different way you know to have the fan support i think is is powerful right i mean to know that that the wins at your back and the ever the folks that are going they're literally paying their money to watch the team want you in charge i think that that's a it's a hugely powerful endorsement yeah i mean that's a more positive i think
00:55:43
Speaker
Yeah, if you like the way the organization is going, it's also good to vote and say that that's how you feel. But anyway, Gar, thank you so much for doing this. I'm Jeremiah Shan, signing off on behalf of the Center at Heart podcast, and no study yet. Remember, you'll never get alone. Thanks, Jeremiah.
00:56:04
Speaker
Green Douglas spur where the waters cut through. Down to wild mountains and tangents you flew. Canadian Northwest to the ocean so blue. It's Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Your power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll On, Columbia Roll On.
00:56:41
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!