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Codependency - Understanding the underlying needs
16 Plays6 months ago
Vernon and Michelle introduce a short series on co-dependency. Today, they talk through God's design of man and how our total being is designed for relationship. They also touch on the core needs inherent in every human being. Needs that demand fulfillment. Understanding this foundation is vital as they unravel some of the unique challenges of a codependent relationship over the next few weeks. This series will prepare you for the more comprehensive 3-hour workshop hosted by Michelle on June 1, 2024. You can find out more at https://gmint.org/codependency
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Transcript
Introduction of Michelle on Walking Free
00:00:02
Speaker
This is your host, Vernon Terrell, with Grace Ministries International, and it's time for Walking Free. And welcome back. This is Vernon Terrell, and today I have the privilege of introducing my wife, Michelle. Welcome, Michelle. Thanks for having me back.
Series Overview: Understanding Codependency
00:00:32
Speaker
Absolutely. We are going to have a bit of a series over the next couple of weeks. We're going to unpack at a very high level. Just have a conversation on this idea of codependency. Sounds like fun.
00:00:50
Speaker
It's gonna be fun because you're actually doing a workshop.
Michelle's Codependency Workshop
00:00:54
Speaker
You did a one hour lecture at our Network 220 convention in Dallas, Texas about a week ago or so and got rave reviews and that was also a high level introduction to set a foundation for this upcoming workshop. Can you tell us
00:01:18
Speaker
a little bit about the workshop, the when, and the where, and all that. Well, it's going to be Saturday, June 1st. It's going to run from 10 a.m. to 1 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, and it's going to be online, so anyone can join us from anywhere.
00:01:36
Speaker
and it will remind you at the end of the podcast but you can find it at our website at gmet.org forward slash codependency and all the information is there and that's gmint.org forward slash codependency or if you just go to gmet.org it's on the main page there as well. So that's the workshop and
Defining Codependency with Dr. James Richards' Insights
00:02:05
Speaker
We hope you will register for that. It's gonna be a very in-depth three-hour workshop with breakout rooms facilitated by some of our staff at Grace Ministries International. And we think it's gonna be an incredibly valuable time for you and perhaps you know others who may struggle with this. And we're gonna get started on this podcast with just the very basics
00:02:35
Speaker
What is codependency?
00:02:38
Speaker
One of my favorite resources and books on codependency is Take Control of Your Life by Dr. James Richards. And I love the way that he presents the concept of codependency. A lot of times we think of codependency very behaviorally and he breaks it down to the root of what's going on. So let me read for you what his definition is. So codependency,
00:03:08
Speaker
a simple root definition is to look to someone or something outside of ourselves to meet a need that can only be met inside ourselves. And when I first read that, I was like, oh, so I have everything inside of me. That doesn't quite ring true. There was something. I was a little concerned about that. And as I kept reading, I got clarity about what he was saying. So he expands on that and says, in reality,
00:03:37
Speaker
codependency is when we depend on anyone to do for us what only God himself can do. So when you think of the believer having the Spirit of God in dwelling them and being their source,
00:03:51
Speaker
He's saying the root issue is trying to go outside of yourself to find a source instead of going internally to the Spirit of God to be the source for what
Biblical Foundations: Interdependence vs. Codependency
00:04:03
Speaker
you need. So that's the root issue, but it's going to be fun. Let's jump into what is it? What does it look like? Right, and I know back for many years I would use
00:04:15
Speaker
First of all, what you said is such a more robust definition. I used to use the definition that said it's when I depend on someone else's dependency.
00:04:31
Speaker
Their dependency is vital to meet my needs. As long as they're, quote, sick, especially with those who are stuck in addiction, it's doing something for me. I'm in there. I need them to stay sick so I can be okay.
00:04:49
Speaker
Right, you're saying I need to be needed. It feels so good for you to depend on me, to fix you, to heal you, to help you, and we get a sense of worth, value, significance out of being needed. And I know you're going to unpack this in a lot more detail at the workshop, but what is God's design for a healthy relationship?
00:05:18
Speaker
Well, God's design is, first of all, just talking about our own individual design. God designed us with spirit, soul, and body, and we get clarity on that in 1 Thessalonians 5.23. So these three elements of what make us up, our spirit, our soul, and our body, is starting to understand that is the foundation of understanding
00:05:44
Speaker
what codependency is and how we can break out of it. So God gave each of us, we're going to start with a body because that's the most external, tangible, you can look in the mirror and see what your body is, but your body is designed to interact
00:06:01
Speaker
and have intimacy with the environment around you. Right now, we're sitting in the studio, and our bodies are making contact with the chair. Our feet are making contact with the floor. And our bodies are also intended to have connection with other physical beings. So we've got all of our fur babies out there that we love to have up in our lap and pet. We've got people that we can grab a hold of and shake hands and hug. So our bodies have some basic needs.
00:06:31
Speaker
God made our body to need air, to need food, we need sleep, we need touch. And so God intended to provide all of those things for us. And when we go back to the creation account in Genesis 1 through 3, we're seeing that God created this environment that we live in. He created the world with water, with air. We have land formations that we can live on.
00:06:58
Speaker
And then he goes and plants this garden and he gives, not just gruel to eat, but this amazing variety of food for us to consume with all the nutrients that we need. And it has sustained us, this amazing environment.
00:07:14
Speaker
this amazing earth that we live in. It testifies to the glory of God, and it is God's provision for us. So, yes, the food comes from the tree, or maybe from the cow, depending on what your diet is. But ultimately, all of that has come from the hand of God. It's his provision for us. And so the body is not evil. The body is not something that we need to despise.
00:07:42
Speaker
Is that right? The body is part of God's design? It's part of God's design. It's definitely impacted by the fall. When you look at our bodies, the way God created Adam and Eve in perfection in that garden, there were no ailments. It was good. It was very good, in fact. But now sin has entered the world, and our bodies are impacted, but our bodies are not evil. In fact,
00:08:10
Speaker
Our body is the dwelling place as a believer of the Holy Spirit of God. Boy, that's a very impactful statement. And we need to understand that sometimes our body can work against us. That's just the results of the fall, the results of sin in this world that we live in. But the body itself is not evil. It is part of God's design.
Soul's Needs and God's Presence
00:08:38
Speaker
As you were saying that Paul described a spirit, soul, and body, we hit on the body. What about the soul? Right. So inside our body is our soul. And our soul is made of our mind, our emotions, and our will. So with our mind, we think. With our emotions, we feel.
00:08:58
Speaker
And with our will, we're making choices. So our soul, you could also call it our personality, is designed to have intimacy with other soul beings. So who are the beings out there with souls? Well, other people have souls. A lot of people are looking for their soulmate. But God also has a mind, has emotions, has a will. And so we get to connect and have intimacy with God through our soul.
00:09:25
Speaker
And then back to our fur babies, those creatures that God put in this world that He gave us dominion over, they have bodies and souls. They don't have spirits, but a lot of people have very special connections with their pets. So we are designed to have connection and intimacy through our souls.
00:09:46
Speaker
And what our soul needs, just like our body needed air and food and sleep, our soul has a different set of needs. Really deep, core needs that we each have. We need love. We need acceptance.
00:10:01
Speaker
We need worth, we need security, significance, faithfulness, companionship, purpose, belonging. We need to be seen, we need to be understood. There's so many ways that we can describe this set of what our soul really needs.
00:10:16
Speaker
And God's design is first and foremost, he provides his presence as the source to meet those deep needs. So he is the source. And then he provides others around us, the people around us, even our pets to some degree, to be a resource. So he is the source of love, acceptance, worth, security, and people and pets are meant to be a resource that through them we get to experience God's provision.
00:10:46
Speaker
And would you say that they're a resource, but that doesn't mean we are to use people. Definitely not.
00:10:54
Speaker
but they're part of the design that we are dependent on God, but as a human, we are interdependent, if you will, on other people, and we're designed for relationship. And part of relationship is that physical presence, and it's that soul presence and intimacy that we get to experience at all different levels, but that's part of the design.
Community: Healthy Connections vs. Unhealthy Enmeshment
00:11:19
Speaker
Absolutely. In fact, one of the risks that you can run in talking about codependency is you paint the picture that this enmeshment, this entanglement that people have of trying to get their needs met from each other is a problem. It is. And there's a knee jerk reaction to say, well, the solution is, well, I don't need anybody.
00:11:38
Speaker
I just need God. And God did not make us to be an island. We are not meant to dwell as hermits and to exist exclusively in relationship with Him. He designed us to be in community.
00:11:56
Speaker
in connection, we're actually designed for human connection, but there's going to be some difference that we're going to try to tease out of the difference between a healthy connection with the people around us and an unhealthy enmeshment with them.
00:12:13
Speaker
back to the garden where the Lord said, it's not good for Adam to be alone. And that's not saying that the marriage relationship is the only relationship for those out there who are single.
00:12:26
Speaker
it's still not good to be alone. You need to surround yourself with healthy friends and friendships and others just, whether it's family or friends, where you can be in a community with other people and you're actually encouraging each other in your soul as well as with your presence. So important, but there is one more aspect. We talked about the body.
00:12:54
Speaker
and we talk about the soul, what about this idea of spirit?
00:12:58
Speaker
right, this mysterious part of us that has connection with God. And so it is what makes us spiritual beings. Our soul, our spirits are meant to have intimacy with God. John 4 says that God is spirit and those who worship worship in spirit and in truth. So our spirit allows for a spirit to spirit connection with God and
00:13:26
Speaker
we also, through our spirit, have connection with other spiritual beings. So those who, especially, have you had this example, this experience before, Vernon, where you come across a new person, a complete stranger, but there is just something that draws you instantly to them, or as they start to speak, you connect with them, and you realize, oh my goodness, they are a believer, and there's an instant spirit-to-spirit connection. Absolutely, absolutely.
00:13:56
Speaker
So what our spirit needs is connection, connection with God, and God provides his presence as that source. And you get the sense as well, why does God tell us about the importance of finding a healthy, believing community to connect with?
00:14:14
Speaker
It's on that soul level, but I believe it's on that spirit level too. There's something very healing and powerful and healthy as we join together. We worship God together. That corporate worship is all of us coming together and spiritually praising and worshiping God. Even when we enter into lament together, there is a powerful corporate experience of that spiritual connection with God.
00:14:44
Speaker
And the author of Hebrews also echoed this idea that Paul puts forth from the Lord that we're a spirit-soul body. And the author of Hebrews says that the Word of God actually can pierce between this division of soul and spirit.
00:15:05
Speaker
And it's easy if we were on a video and we had these diagrams and we show here's the spirit, here's the soul. It's not quite that clear cut. I mean, we're all just kind of together.
00:15:21
Speaker
although there is a division and there's different roles and aspects of our being, our spirit being, and our soul personality, but they are vitally connected. Your spirit and soul in a sense are one, yet they're separate.
00:15:40
Speaker
and the beautiful thing as a believer, you also have the Holy Spirit that is inside you that has, in fact the word uses this word picture of baptism, baptism, to take a bath, to fully immerse, and the Holy Spirit has actually immersed your spirit soul, and you're joined with him
00:16:09
Speaker
as in one spirit joined together, yet separate. Isn't that wild to think about? I mean, it's his omnipresent, omniscient, all-powerful God of the universe is living in your body. That just blows my mind
00:16:34
Speaker
But when we talk about our source, your source isn't way out yonder somewhere.
God as the Source of Love and Security
00:16:41
Speaker
He has placed himself in you. And that's where you draw life from. Not only did he create a brand new spirit in you as a new identity, but he as the very source of life is in you, providing that power, that grace,
00:17:03
Speaker
all that you need in Christ in you. So there's a big difference between the intellectual realization, the theology of God as our source, and the practical experience. So a lot of believers understand cognitively, they see it written in the Bible, and yes, they can understand God is ultimately my source, or he's supposed to be my source,
00:17:32
Speaker
But they're really struggling in a practical, experiential way. But how is it that God really is enough? Let's just pick one of these. For example, I need love.
00:17:47
Speaker
You know, I need someone to give me a hug once in a while. And I feel like I need words of affirmation once in a while. I know that I definitely need love. And am I supposed to exclusively get that from God? Am I not supposed to need other people in that? And it can become very confusing. And we do get entangled. We tend to fixate on certain relationships. A lot of times this is mom and dad.
00:18:17
Speaker
especially growing up and in our youth, but we can carry this all the way through life. A lot of times this will be a spouse or a friends group that we put all the weight on and say, I need this person to show me love in order for me to believe.
00:18:36
Speaker
that I am loved. So we start coming from a belief, I lack love, I don't have love, I'm empty, I'm running empty on love, and I need to fill that love
00:18:49
Speaker
with the people around me. And I know I should fill that love, and it's coming from that same place. I have this deficit, I have this lack, I lack love, and I should let God fill that love. And so part of the core issue with codependency is starting from a place of believing that I don't have what God has promised that he's already given me. Is there a quick fix for that or a pill we can take to
00:19:18
Speaker
magically, to use that word in quotes, come to this belief. I mean, that's just, I can't hold on to that. Sure, let me just give you a Bible verse and fix it for you. There it is. We'll just give you a Bible verse and you're okay now. No.
00:19:34
Speaker
You actually are already okay. But there is a revelation that needs to come. And some of it is just having the conversation today and starting to challenge, do I believe I'm already loved? Do I believe I'm on this performance cycle to try to earn?
00:19:52
Speaker
either from God or from the people around me, what does it mean to really rest? And it's really fun when we start to think of, well, what kind of love are we talking about? Because if we're talking about performance-based love, well, that's something you got to earn. If we're talking about transactional love, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. We're always counting the beans in this transactional version of what love is. Again, it's earned. You have to keep track of it.
00:20:22
Speaker
There's codependent love. You're the needy person and I'm trying to fix you and take care of you and you're hoping that I can help pull your life back together. There's toxic love. There's all kinds of these counterfeit loves. So what is the love that God is offering us?
00:20:42
Speaker
And I think as we start to at least wrap up this quick first segment that we're going to, as we talk about over the next few weeks, one very important thing is just to identify, is to understand, am I in a codependent relationship?
Indicators of Codependency and Relationship Expectations
00:21:05
Speaker
Because it's hard to break free of something that you don't realize that you're actually in.
00:21:12
Speaker
It's hard to step out of that if you don't see that you're in it. Are there some indicators just, and I know I'm catching you right off the top here, but some things that might indicate someone is in this codependent relationship or cycle.
00:21:31
Speaker
Well, we talked about one already, it's the need to be needed. If I set myself up in relationships where I'm drawn to needy people, it could be a strong indicator that I have that codependent trait that I'm looking for people that are needy. So I can fix them, rescue them, save them. Maybe I'm the needy person. And instead of me taking responsibility for my life,
00:21:56
Speaker
I'm codependent on the people around me to come and rescue me, come take care of me. Um, and this is where we have to be really careful. There are people with legitimate disabilities. And, um, I've recently been through being through a very physical, a limited time where I did have to depend on a lot of people because I wasn't capable. I literally,
00:22:18
Speaker
had limited physical capacity, and I'm so blessed that my community came around and supported me. That's not codependency. Codependency is now that I'm up and on my feet and moving around. Am I still relying on everybody else to live my life for me and meet my needs for me? Did I get sort of hooked on what it feels like to have people jump in and take care? So there's really appropriate times as the body of believers we
00:22:43
Speaker
We really jump in and help each other, help unbelievers. But if that becomes the standard operating system, we got a big red flag that we need to look out for. But when we get together next time, we're going to talk. That's the initial, initially what it looks like, but there's a lot more phases of what that codependent cycle can really look like.
00:23:04
Speaker
I think one more for me is if I feel that, well, you owe me, I'm doing this for you, you owe me, and that could be more performance, but it could be an indicator that, hey, you're perhaps in this codependent cycle, which we are gonna touch on. Yeah, so if I'm doing things with strings attached, and I'm loving you, but I'm looking for, wait, where's my payback? I scratched your back, wait, my back is itchy.
00:23:33
Speaker
and I'm feeling this and these things are going through my mind, maybe flag, step back, you could be,
00:23:41
Speaker
in this co-dependent cycle.
Workshop Registration Encouragement
00:23:44
Speaker
What is that co-dependent cycle? We're going to talk about that over the next few weeks and you really want to sign up for the workshop. The workshop is going to really unpack all of this in detail and with breakout groups to really get personal and intimate as much as you would like to share but to really break down where you are and to help drive this home
00:24:11
Speaker
and you don't want to miss it. So I would encourage you to head over to gmet.org forward slash codependency or just gmet.org, g-m-i-n-t dot o-r-g. And on there you'll see a learn more button that will take you where you can learn more and actually register for the workshop. You don't want to miss it. So I hope this segment was encouraging. Thank you, Michelle.
00:24:41
Speaker
My pleasure. And we will do this again as always as I end the podcast I ask you just to seek the Lord and ask the Lord what are some steps that I could take right now maybe that step is registering for the workshop but ask the Lord what are some next steps that I can take so I can stop talking and start walking
00:25:07
Speaker
You've been listening to Walking Free, a production of Grace Ministries International in Marietta, Georgia. For more information, go to our website at gmint.org. That's gminc.org.