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Codependency - How Did I End Up Here?
16 Plays6 months ago
Vernon and Michelle continue their discussion on codependency, building on our last episode, where we discussed God's design and understanding needs. This podcast discusses the possible origins of your codependent lifestyle and the typical codependency cycle, where you feel trapped with no hope. The good news is that there is always hope! If you want more, Michelle is hosting a 3-hour workshop on this very topic Saturday, June 1, 2024. You can register at https://gmint.org/codependency
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Transcript
Introduction to Walking Free Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
This is your host, Vernon Terrell, with Grace Ministries International, and it's time for Walking Free.
Introducing Michelle and Workshop Announcement
00:00:21
Speaker
And welcome back, this is Vernon Terrell, and I have with me my incredible wife, Michelle. Hi, Vernon. Hello, and we're gonna continue
00:00:31
Speaker
our discussion on co-dependency. In fact, we have an incredible workshop coming up. And by the time you hear this recording, it may be over, but that's okay. We might offer another one. Yeah, June 1st, 2024. So June 1st is the actual workshop. So if you haven't registered, I encourage you
00:00:55
Speaker
to head over to gment.org forward slash codependency. And you can register right there. And I'll have a link in the show notes and description.
Understanding Co-dependency
00:01:10
Speaker
So let's, we talked a little bit about God's design, a little bit about needs, but let's start again just to remind everybody what is this definition of codependency?
00:01:23
Speaker
Well, we're just going to break it down into two parts. Co is indicating there's more than one person involved. And the dependency is showing that these two people are depending on each other to be their source to meet their needs. They're trying to draw life from each other. So how does this start? How does somebody get drawn into a co-dependent relationship?
00:01:51
Speaker
It's helpful to realize that there's usually codependency before the codependency. So if I find myself in a codependent relationship today, probably I could look back into my roots, look into my family of origin and discover there was a codependent pattern that started decades ago. And when you're living in that codependent pattern, I guess you learn the pattern.
00:02:18
Speaker
you learn the pattern and no one gives a name to it. So you don't realize until you're sitting with a counselor, Oh, this is that thing called codependency. So can you give us a little bit more on that?
00:02:31
Speaker
Sure, so some of the top family dynamics that would normalize codependency are going to be having a parent or a family member who is alcoholic or addicted. Inside of that alcoholic addiction community is where the word codependency even originated.
00:02:52
Speaker
As people were working with addicts, they realized there are a set of traits that the family members of these addicts consistently portray. And those group of traits put together is what was termed codependency. And then over time counselors and therapists realized, oh, it's not just those in relationship with
00:03:15
Speaker
and alcoholic, there's many situations where that codependency is the response to a certain family member.
Family Dynamics and Codependency
00:03:27
Speaker
So another one would be having a parent or a caretaker who's narcissistic. Another would be if a parent or a caregiver is abusive in some way, verbally abusive, physically, spiritually abusive,
00:03:42
Speaker
What is spiritual abuse and that's a big topic we can go on we're not that's a whole other podcast We'll have to book that one on another day, but it's a it's a lopsided balance of spirituality where the family member let's pick a parent let's pick a
00:03:59
Speaker
Dad, say dad is very religious and dad demands that all the family members follow all the religious rules so that dad can feel okay about his relationship with God or about his role as a dad. So his family makes him look good. His family makes him look good. His family is meeting his need for significance by their religious behavior.
00:04:24
Speaker
and those that are following it are really meeting their need to get accepted by dad. Right. They want dad's love and approval or they're just trying to keep dad calm so he's not yelling at them or punishing them. They're trying to keep themselves safe. It already sounds like there's a whole bunch of codependent relationships out there.
00:04:48
Speaker
There's a whole bunch. I haven't met a person
Codependency and Spiritual Needs
00:04:51
Speaker
yet who doesn't have some level of codependency. Cause if we go back to our definition, we're saying that codependency is when I look to other people to try to be a source to meet my needs. And really when we're born into this world, we are looking to mom and dad very appropriately to meet our needs. That's the way God designed it is that parents meet the needs of the children and they model to the children.
00:05:15
Speaker
how God ultimately is the one that we depend on to meet our needs. There's supposed to be a transition that happens. Instead of continuing to depend on mom and dad to meet my needs, I learned to depend on my Heavenly Father to meet my needs. And the break in there is where when we don't do that, we're looking somewhere else to get my needs met. Yes. And in relationships, that can become a very codependent relationship.
00:05:41
Speaker
It can. Now there are some families and not every family has such an extreme as a narcissistic parent or an alcoholic parent or an obvious abuse situation going on. Sometimes there's just a parent who is controlling, domineering, or overbearing. Sometimes you have unhealed trauma
00:06:03
Speaker
in one of the parents or both parents that is impacting the family dynamic. Sometimes as kids where there's ruptures that happen in the relationship between mom and dad and we never get to see the repair happen and so that can be an indicator that that the family will respond with a codependent pattern to try to maintain a sense of safety and well-being. Or sometimes I know in
00:06:31
Speaker
from experience, there's no rupture because the whole existence of that family is keeping that one person happy. And that can be very damaging. So what is this codependent relationship look like for the one who is trying to navigate
00:06:56
Speaker
around that person. Typically as a new relationship begins it is generally going to start with one person being more needy and the other person coming in with a sense of getting their significance out of being the rescuer
00:07:16
Speaker
being the caregiver, being the helpful one. So one person comes in lopsided in being needy, the other person comes in lopsided in the need to be needed. So is there a pattern
00:07:36
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in this. So when you have this star of the show who is really demanding a lot of the attention and that could be positive or negative attention either way. And then you've got another person who's in there that's really trying to rescue or do whatever to get their needs met in this weird dynamic. I can only imagine you can only take so much when you're trying to do that.
Phases of Codependent Relationships
00:08:03
Speaker
You'd be surprised. Some people can take it for decades and they're in a phase that we call appeasement where they are appeasing the needy one at the center. And that's really based out of a sense of trying to get their needs met.
00:08:20
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by playing nice, being kind, being helpful. Maybe we'd even use the word being enabling to that needy person so that they themselves can get their needs met. If they can get that, like you said, the star of the show, if they can get them to not be quite so needy,
00:08:45
Speaker
then they can finally get the love that they're hungry for or to get the approval that they're needing. And how, what would that look like? I mean, in real life, if someone is in this cycle, they think they might be in this codependent relationship, perhaps they're in this appeasement. What might that appeasement look like or sound like?
00:09:09
Speaker
What it sounds like is maybe a dialogue that's going on inside of your head that says, I can't say no, because if I say no to you, I would be a bad person. I would be a bad Christian. I'd be a bad husband or a bad wife. So I have to say yes, even when I want to say no or
00:09:31
Speaker
My goodness, even if I need to say no because there can be an inner belief and inner dialogue that says I'm not allowed to have needs again, if you're raised in a family where a parent is the needy one and all of the kids learn to just Cycle around that star of the show then you were raised to believe You know dad gets to have needs but none of the kids get to have any needs your needs don't matter You need to stuff them. You need to deny them
00:10:01
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So, fast forward a couple of decades, I can still be operating out of that belief system. My needs don't matter. I'm not allowed to have needs. Oh, but you're allowed to have needs. And my purpose, the reason God put me on this planet, is so that I can meet everybody else's needs. In fact, is that the Christianized? It sounds so... What's wrong with that? I mean, I'm going to deny my needs. Deny myself. Take up my cross. Deny myself and take up my cross and be in this very unhealthy relationship for Jesus.
00:10:31
Speaker
Yeah, it is very unhealthy because God is the one who actually gave us those needs. So needs aren't bad. Needs are not bad. Needs are a blessing. Think about it this way. God gave mankind a need for water.
00:10:48
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When we don't get water, we feel thirst. That's very uncomfortable. It's very painful to be thirsty. But the thirst, the pain of that drives me to go get that need filled appropriately. I go and drink water. And where did the water come from? The water came from God. He provides the water. So when you think about that with our emotional needs that we have, I need love. I need love. Well, what does the Bible say? God is love.
00:11:18
Speaker
Why did God, who is love, create me with a need for love? Because He wants me to draw from Him that love, just like He wants me to take a sip of clean, fresh water, because it hydrates my body, and His love, it nurtures my soul, it nurtures my being.
00:11:40
Speaker
But he gave us other humans and even other creatures to experience love, right? I mean, that's not bad. We don't just go off in a cave and say, God, I need your love. Let me experience it. God designed us to interact with one another.
00:11:56
Speaker
Right? So where does that fit in? He designed us for community and in fact humans who are not in community do not tend to thrive well. We as humans need the connection with other people but it is much about our mindset and our understanding of am I drawing life from the people around me? Are they that source of life?
00:12:18
Speaker
or is God the source of life? So we're in a relationship, we're married, happily married, and there is a flow of love that comes back and forth between us. But when I'm extending love to you, I don't manufacture that love for you. It is the love that God has poured into my heart
00:12:37
Speaker
that I am experiencing God's love and there is an abundance of love now that I have so I have overflow to flow and you get to experience God's love through me and I daily get to experience God's love through you.
00:12:53
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And I think that's one axiom that I've said for many years and really taken from 1 John 4, but 1 John 4.16, but it talks about to know and believe the love that God has for us. And to the extent that we can receive God's love is the extent that we're going to express
00:13:18
Speaker
That love and so I think that's that's the flow. I can't if I try to just love out of my own resources out of my own Well, actually just most of the time if I'm trying to manufacture love it's because I'm trying to get something I
00:13:35
Speaker
Right. And then we get into all the counterfeit loves. So then we're getting into a transactional love. You think, oh, I'm taking the car and getting your car washed for you because I love you. But when I don't say thank you and give you a pat on the back, you could get really hurt because, well, I didn't get something back for that. It wasn't a gape. It wasn't no strings attached.
00:13:59
Speaker
there were actually some hidden strings that you might not have even been aware of when you took the car to go get it washed. So what you just shared about really knowing and experiencing God's love is the preventative medicine for our souls to prevent codependency. It's like the verse on forgiveness to those who've been forgiven little
00:14:26
Speaker
they will only forgive little. To those who've been forgiven much, they will forgive much. And the idea is when we understand the magnitude of God's forgiveness, then we have that spiritual and divine capacity through Christ to forgive. And it's hard to forgive when we haven't really experienced God's forgiveness.
00:14:50
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And the same with love. As we
Love and Spiritual Fulfillment
00:14:53
Speaker
really open up our hearts to hear from God and experience His love, then that true agape can flow through us, out from us to others. And God made us, and it's awesome to connect and actually have authentic love and authentic relationship. That's a beautiful thing, a part of God's design.
00:15:14
Speaker
And one thing we can do is really reflect on, am I holding fast to a belief that I have to prove my love to others? Am I holding fast? Do I really believe that I get to simply be loved because of who I am? Or do I believe I have to earn love and earn that acceptance? Am I on this performance track?
00:15:36
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and everything I do is because I'm trying to earn it. If I'm trying to earn it, I am stuck in the codependency cycle because what God gives us isn't earned, it's grace. Grace isn't something that you earn, it's something that is freely bestowed upon you because of the character of the giver, because of God's character He gives it to us. If I believe I lack love,
00:15:59
Speaker
And I have to earn love. I am going to either the people around me. I could even try to be codependent with God. I can try to earn God's love. And I never feel like I quite earn it because that's not the kind of love God is offering. God doesn't ask us to earn his love. He asks us to rest and abide and receive his love. We already are loved. We're not performing to try to get love. Well, I know we're going to go
00:16:28
Speaker
in much more detail in the workshop. But give us an overview. We talked about this idea of appeasement. Can you give us a quick overview of what is this cycle? We can hear about a codependent cycle. What is that?
00:16:47
Speaker
Well, you may have figured out by now that appeasement doesn't work. Ultimately we get frustrated and we don't get our needs met, even though we're pouring out and pouring out, we're giving and giving. And that person that we're codependent with just seems to always want more and never be satisfied. And so it gets frustrating. We want them to do better, to be better, to love us better, to value us better. And eventually we get to a place where we go into fight mode.
00:17:16
Speaker
and we start to make the demands. How dare you treat me that way? After all that I've done for you, you've got to clean up your act. You need to do better. And so we flip from being kind and sweet and enabling to being vicious. And maybe we fight them to their face. Maybe we go to all of our friends and gossip about how unfair and unjust it is of how we're being treated.
00:17:42
Speaker
And we try to use more assertiveness, more threats or demands to try to get our needs met from the other
Breaking the Codependent Cycle
00:17:50
Speaker
person. We need to put the pressure on. That's why you're still in a codependency. It's not like you're standing up with a voice, in a sense, to be healthy.
00:18:01
Speaker
it's still trying to get your needs met through them. I still believe I'm lacking. I don't have my needs met and I still am looking to you and I'm letting you know you're failing at meeting my needs and I'm really not receiving those from God.
00:18:17
Speaker
so we go and have moved from this appease portion to this fight portion yeah i got some bad news that it doesn't work it doesn't work it might work short term but long term we are caught in this loop and we end up
00:18:36
Speaker
getting stuck. What happens to our hearts is we fight and we fight and we exhaust ourselves and we shut down. We call that we get frozen. And sometimes we say that we're in a victim mode.
00:18:52
Speaker
Woe is me After all that I've done and woe is me and it doesn't matter what I do. It's very hopeless It's very depressing. It's very immobilized. We just want to go back to bed why even get out of bed in the morning because it's hopeless and is helpless I Come to the place where I feel like I've tried everything I was nice to you I was mean to you none of those worked I'm out of options if I can't be nice and I can't be mean
00:19:22
Speaker
goodness what else is there to get you to change so that I can get my needs met. So I hope you hear in that that every step along the way there actually is a choice to turn away from the person that we're trying to get life from and
00:19:39
Speaker
and lift our eyes up and actually look to God to meet those deepest needs. And the first and foremost deepest need that we have is for spiritual life. When we're born into this world, we are born separated from God, spiritually dead, physically and soul alive, but our spirits are dead. And that very first step of faith that we take is receiving the free gift of life from God.
00:20:04
Speaker
And that's always step one, if you've never received Christ and his death, burial and resurrection as your savior, as your life, if you've never received his forgiveness and eternal life, you can do that. And trust me, if you are a believer,
00:20:29
Speaker
You can still get stuck in this because that's the first step. I mean, that's transformational, but the enemy, and yes, we have an enemy, wants to deceive you to say, well, that's great. You did that fantastic. Now look to your husband or look to your wife or look to your job or look to your drug of choice.
00:20:51
Speaker
And they're gonna help you escape the pressure or they're gonna be enough to satisfy you And it's a lie only God can do that So we want to encourage you we want to encourage you to take a look take a deep look and perhaps this this codependent codependency workshop
00:21:16
Speaker
is a great next step for you.
Invitation to Workshop and Personal Experience
00:21:20
Speaker
And you can learn a little bit more. Even a three-hour workshop is still gonna scratch the surface. There's so much! But this may, I think, will be a very necessary beginning for so many.
00:21:34
Speaker
as you take your steps out to break out of this co-dependency cycle. Any last words of encouragement you might have?
00:21:47
Speaker
I just want to say that I am a recovered codependent. I don't mind being vulnerable and putting it out there that I was raised to deny my own needs and to put all the focus on somebody else.
00:22:07
Speaker
And it costs us dearly. It costs us so much, so much pain, so much heartache. We get trapped into making pretty poor life decisions because we live in this just sort of twisted reality about how our needs are gonna get met. And the loving thing that God does
00:22:35
Speaker
is he doesn't let it work. He doesn't let us satisfy us because he does want us to be thirsty for him. So God loves you so much. And if you know that intellectually, but you have not experienced what it feels like to be deeply, tenderly loved by your heavenly father, then you have hope. Experiencing that shifts everything.
00:23:03
Speaker
So I would just encourage people again to turn away, look up, and receive from your Heavenly Father his agape, unearned, beautiful love for you.
00:23:22
Speaker
I don't know what your next step is. You might have been talking to many folks about this relationship for a long time, or maybe you're just talking in your head, in your own mind for a
Encouragement and Next Steps
00:23:38
Speaker
long time. You know something's wrong.
00:23:41
Speaker
Well, I want you to ask your heavenly father who loves you so much, what would be a next step for you? Maybe it's the workshop, maybe it's counseling through grace ministries or another grace-based counseling office. But whatever that next step is, I want you to take courage and to stop talking and start walking.
00:24:04
Speaker
You've been listening to Walking Free, a production of Grace Ministries International in Marietta, Georgia. For more information, go to our website at gment.org. That's gminc.org.