Transcript
Speaker: It's a series of simple steps, but as you get better, you know at the beginning I was saying practice your craft, learn, get better. If you can do each simple step really well, the outcome is going to be really good.
Speaker: What is up Shaping Nation, this is Nick Torres here and today I had the great pleasure of interviewing Drew Kainz. Drew makes some really incredible sculptures, some are robotic toy themed, some are just nature inspired theme, but in this episode you will learn how Drew creates his unique sculptures. You also learn about how Drew adds multiple influences and enthusiasm in his life into his own sculptures and finally you will learn about why you need to be making
Speaker: Great work every time you're making pottery. And there's so much more in this episode. I hope you guys enjoy it. I'll see you guys in there. If you love pottery and want to take your skills to the next level, you're in the right place. Find your own pottery style right here on Shaping Your Pottery with Nick Torres. Let's get started. Drew, welcome to Shaping Your Pottery and share with me what is something you believe potters should be doing to have success in pottery.
Speaker: Oh, what a big question to start with, eh? I think the answer's quite straightforward, though, right? First of all, you want to do your best work. You want to be improving all the time. Yeah, that would be the main thing, I would say. Just keep improving your craft. Definitely agree. Learn from people. Do your best work. Don't cut corners. Don't copy people.
Speaker: and develop your own voice. I absolutely love that advice. Some great advice right there. So now tell me the story how you got started making pottery. Right. Well, let's let's go back to the beginning. When I was when I was a kid, I used to really love plasticine, you know, like modeling clay that you can get in brick or plasticine anyway.
Speaker: and when I was about six I went to my mum's friend's house and her son had plasticine but he had tools, he had knives, he had like a tray, he had a whole set up going on so I did that and I played with plasticine and I loved it and then like years later
Speaker: I was actually doing a night class in art and this guy said, oh, I do pottery. I teach a pottery night class. You might like it. So I started doing it. And suddenly everything that I used to do as a kid just all came flooding back, you know, because without realising it, I'd sort of developed techniques that were immediately useful for doing pottery. So that's how I began.
Speaker: So now what made you continue the pottery journey?
Speaker: Well, at the time I was doing, I was working as an illustrator and then I was doing like digital fix, web designing, that sort of stuff. But I really enjoyed, I just really enjoyed doing the pottery nightglass. And I just realized this is, this is what I want to do. And then, but I was diverted by doing other stuff, but eventually I came back to it in a more full -time way. If that makes sense.
Speaker: So you mentioned that you were doing some other stuff before and like you were doing freelance illustrator stuff before you really started diving deep into pottery. How did this experience help you with your own pottery and your own sculptures? Well, I mean, it's all design, isn't it? It's all creativity. It's all design. So obviously that side of it, thinking of ideas, developing ideas, that was all very useful.
Speaker: I used to have a very intricate illustration style. I used to use the called Isograph pens, the little fine ink pens down to a third of a millimetre nib and stuff. And it took me a few years after I was doing pottery to sort of take what I'd been doing.
Speaker: in illustration and realise how I could do it in pottery but once I did I had all that experience to draw on and I think also because I've done quite a lot of work doing things like logos and
Speaker: like simple graphics but high impact I had a sort of mindset so when I was making pottery I sort of brought that to it as well so I like I like a lot of strong silhouettes I like a lot of detail yeah
Speaker: I love that. Shaping Nation, if you have experience in other art forms or other, just experience in general, you can bring those experiences and put them into your own pottery. Absolutely love that. So let's talk about your sculptures. Well, can I just go back on something like that? Because since I've been on Instagram, I've met quite a lot of other hotters or I miss sculptors or whatever. And I've noticed that you get quite a few people who come from a different
Speaker: background so designers just by chance I met a lot of art doll makers who sort of they cross over into pottery because they're making like porcelain heads and stuff like that and it's interesting that they have a different do you know if you're I don't know what your story is but if in Britain do you know like you go to night classes you might do a degree whatever
Speaker: there's like a process you go through and it's the same process wherever you are and it's a certain mindset if you come from a different discipline you bring a different mindset to it so you're maybe going to make things that
Speaker: someone who'd been brought up in a traditional pottery background wouldn't think of making or just hear what I'm saying. So I think it's really interesting actually and I think some of the people who are doing the most interesting stuff with clay are people who maybe come from a different background rather than the traditional route.
Speaker: absolutely agree 100 % on that. So let's talk about your sculptures. Can you tell me the story how you started making sculptures that you make today?
Speaker: right yeah so when when i started like i don't know right but first at that night class first thing we did was a pinch pot then we did a slab pot then we did oh well so i can't remember but you know we were doing that sort of thing and i realized that why i really like doing his hand building so i like that i like the broken area
Speaker: Yeah, you might have to edit this bit. No worries. Sometimes there's too many things to say and it's thinking of what's important. How did I come to make the sculptures that I made today? It's just incremental, isn't it?
Speaker: You know, I started making a small thing and then I worked, I developed on that and I developed on that. And now I make, sometimes I make really big things and super detailed or over ornamented things. So I think it's just a gradual process of building up to it. So now you mentioned that you really enjoyed the hand building aspect of pottery. Can you tell me more about that?
Speaker: Well, I just love it. I'm sure you feel the same. Clay is lovely, isn't it? It's beautiful. The feel of clay, all the different stages, when it's dry, when it's wet, has different qualities, different types of clay, just fascinated me that you could make things. And then, of course, when you fire them,
Speaker: they become permanent. I really like soft things that become hard without being a double entendre. But do you know the idea that your thumb goes into the clay and he makes a mark and then it's fired. And then potentially that could last for thousands of years. It's just amazing. I absolutely agree. I love that aspect of pottery. It's so cool.
Speaker: So now you are inspired by historical and folklore as well as nature art. Can you tell me how this impacts the way you make your own sculptures? Well, yeah, like I'm a person, I have enthusiasm. You know, like when I was a kid, I was really into comics. And later on, I was into like illustration and things like this. And the last few years, my main
Speaker: thing has been like really ancient art like going back to paleolithic you know like cave art I saw a picture and it was it was two bison made out of clay river river clay deep in a cave in France it was unfired
Speaker: but it was 15 ,000 years old and when I saw that it just like totally blew my mind because I feel ceramics is such an ancient art form that you're working in a tradition goes right, right, right back but
Speaker: when you think of those people who are making those clay bison like 15 ,000 years ago they were probably thinking similar things to what we would think you know when we're making because we're you know like i think oh how can i how shall i do this hair or do you know i need to fix that and so so yeah i love it i love being in the long tradition of makers
Speaker: going right back to the earliest times. And what's interesting is people often think of cave people as being primitive. Obviously they had exactly the same brains as us.
Speaker: So they were exactly as intelligent as us. They just had a different cultural background and obviously like really different. But their emotions, their feelings, their creative urge is the same. And some of the artwork from there, there's a cave in France called Chauvet Cave, which they found in the 90s. And it's one of the oldest.
Speaker: People think that art has become more and more sophisticated over time, but actually the art in Chauvet is just amazing. They were geniuses. So I really like, I partly like the look of it.
Speaker: But what I really like is the spirit, the feel of it, the feel of being a maker. And that's mainly what I bring to my work. But also because, like I said before, because I'm a person who has lots of enthusiasms and I'm knocking on now, I'm 57 now. So I've experienced a lot of things. I've seen a lot of things.
Speaker: I've learned about a lot of things so if you take, you know, I often make robots and I always think like when I look at my robots there's like
Speaker: There's a teaspoon of sort of Victorian, you know, cyberpunk, veneering. There's a teaspoon of sort of Japanese tin toys and nostalgia. There's a teaspoon of sort of oceanic tickies and African fetish idols and stuff like that. So, you know, if I was giving advice to people, just say like, just bring as much as you can to your work.
Speaker: absolutely great shaping nation, you can combine all of your interests into your pottery. And you're going to make something really, really beautiful and great. I love that so much. So now can you walk me through your process of how you create your robot sculptures?
Speaker: Okay, so you may, I'll just digress a bit. You may notice I do digress a bit because I do think of about 10 things to say all at once. So I was making a lot of hand built stuff, but I was more making vases and vessels and stuff like that. And then I was watching late night, I was watching, do you know American Choppers? Have you ever heard of that?
Speaker: No, I don't think I have. It's like, it's a pretty lowbrow program. It's like some guys in Orange County in America and they make custom chopper motorbikes. But there was a guy in that called Rick who does a lot of metal fabrication and he was making, you know, the tanks for the motorbikes and stuff like that. And he was like stretching the metal and he was doing this and he was doing that. And I suddenly realized like, I could do that with clay.
Speaker: I could do something similar to that. So I thought, yeah, and I like robots. So I started making a robot. So the way I do it, it's very hard to explain it. Basically, I make the components and then gradually fix them together. And I think a lot of my work is very complicated.
Speaker: but if I was going to give some advice to people I'd say everything that's complicated is a series of simple steps you know like no one no one gets up and makes something amazing in one go do they they you know like say an easy one to explain is like I make quite a lot of wall mounted animal heads so I start with a pinch pot basically very simple
Speaker: then I seal it, put a piece of clay on the back so I've got a bubble and then I just start refining it and refining it and then once it's in the basic shape then I'm like I'm adding the eyes then I'm adding the ears and
Speaker: So it's just a series of simple steps. But as you get better, you know at the beginning I was saying, practice your craft, learn, get better. If you can do each simple step really well, the outcome is going to be really good. Hopefully.
Speaker: I love that so much. Shaping Nation, if you have this big complicated idea, break it down into simple, simple steps and then your idea is going to most likely come to life. I love that so much. Yeah. So let's talk about the business side of pottery. Can you tell me about the moment when you decided to go full time with your pottery? Well, so I've been working freelance
Speaker: about 15 years doing illustration web design that sort of stuff but to be honest I was doing it in my spare you know my spare bedroom in front of a computer and not seeing anyone and I got a bit fed up with that so I got a job at I was lucky to get a job at a community pottery well it was an art studio really but it had a really cool pottery
Speaker: and i was like the technician but i was doing a bit of informal tutoring and all this sort of stuff and then my wife got pregnant we had twins and i became a stay -at -home dad for six years and then when that finished like i'd love you know i'd lost i couldn't go back to that job i couldn't really go back to the web designing and stuff because i'd lost all my clients that i'd built up so i was like well i'm either gonna get a job
Speaker: working at a local shop or something, because I still had kids that I had, you know, youngish kids that I had the responsibility for. Or I'm gonna, I'm gonna just try and do my pottery. And I thought, right, now or never, I'll just go for it. And luckily, where I live,
Speaker: There's an organization called East Street Arts that rent out studio spaces to artists. And they've got a specific ceramics unit. So I got a studio with them and that's how I started. So it was basically like, I can either do something sensible or I can just take a leap of faith and just go for it. And that's what I wanted to do. So I did, I tried it.
Speaker: I love the leap of faith. I love it so much. So what would you say was your biggest obstacle when you went full time? My biggest obstacle was not knowing what.
Speaker: I nearly was saying about cursing. I didn't know what I was doing. So yeah, and because I've been a stay -at -home dad for this six years, I hadn't done, you know, I had done nothing creative for six years, really. So I had to start slow. I sort of, I took like a run up to it. So I just, first thing I did was get my studio. Second thing I did was like start making some stuff and developing ideas and things like that.
Speaker: And I did that for about six months, which I was lucky to have the time to do it. And then someone at the studio, the studio manager said, you really should get in, you should get on Instagram. And I'm like, no, do you know, like I've been sat in my bedroom on a computer for 15 years. I'm sick of that. The whole reason I want to do pottery is because it's to do with your hands. It's not ephemeral, like, like digital stuff. Anyway, she convinced me to do it.
Speaker: then I spent about a month both of the work that I'd made and then I made a big mistake I just put it all up on Instagram in one day and obviously like no one I had no followers and so all like six months of work just went went there I love it so much so you primarily sell your sculptures through galleries why did you choose galleries to show off your sculptures
Speaker: Well actually I'd say I'm more sell direct through Instagram now just because in Britain it's very traditional way I mean you can if you're selling strikes or pottery and you can you can do like markets and things like that or you can sell direct through Instagram
Speaker: or there's quite a large network of crafts or craft galleries and I'm quite lucky where I am there's quite a lot in this area so I just started I just started approaching them then luckily they started saying yes and I started exhibiting with them and then I got a good break early on
Speaker: in Leeds where I live. There's the Craft and Design Gallery which is a really high end gallery and the woman who run it at the time, whose name escapes me actually, but she was very supportive and she gave me a lot of advice, a lot of good advice.
Speaker: So yeah that really launched me actually. She gave me like a showcase and I got some publicity from that and then based on that I could then approach other galleries and say well I had a showcase at this quite prestigious place and gradually I got more.
Speaker: and also because of that a lot of people had seen my stuff in real life they then started following me on instagram and then and then gradually over the over time i built a following on instagram and um the great thing about that is you can sell all around the world and no matter what you do if you like what i do i think it's i mean weird is probably the wrong word but it's it's a bit unusual
Speaker: but there's a billion people on Instagram and if only like 0 .0001 % of people on Instagram like what I'm doing that's still like you know 100 ,000 and I only need like
Speaker: probably only need about a thousand people in the rest of my life to buy stuff from me so you know like the the mathematics just work that way but I still I still the up the upside with selling through galleries is a good gallery this is another thing right I'd give advice to people like some galleries are rubbish
Speaker: some galleries are really good. They all charge a commission. I don't mind paying the commission to the galleries that are good because they'll have a good clientele. They'll publicise your stuff. And it works out where as a bad gallery. I went to this one place when I first started and the woman was like, oh yeah, I'll take loads of stuff. So I dropped the stuff off and then I went back
Speaker: about a month later and it was all just like you know some of it was under tables it was it was just terrible i never i never sold anything there so i'd say to people like if you can get into a good gallery it's worth it and also a lot of the time
Speaker: people might find you in the gallery and then they'll contact you on Instagram later. Like even today, like literally today, I had a guy who had bought stuff when I had that showcase in Leeds, like then I was in 2019 and he contacted me last night and said, can I come down to his studio tomorrow? And he came and he bought quite a lot of stuff today. So it's worth it for the exposure.
Speaker: And also if you can get, if you can build up a network of galleries or, you know, I'm saying galleries, but depending on what you're making, if you're making like small production, pottery type functional wear or something, maybe it's not a gallery, but it's some sort of outlet.
Speaker: And if you can have like 10 outlets and each outlet sells a couple of pieces a month, that's like a good basis. And then if you're selling stuff direct on Instagram or whatever, then you're laughing really. I love that. So what advice would you give to someone that wants to get their own pottery, their own sculptures into galleries?
Speaker: Well, I would say, right, I did an online, during Covid, I did an online residency with East Street Arts, the people who I have here, my studio with, and I've got a profile on Instagram called GorillaGram101.
Speaker: And it was all to do with using Instagram to sell pottery, right? So it's art for artists basically. So I'd advise people if they've got time, go and have a look at that. But to get one of the things I mentioned in that is in the old days, right, if you wanted to get into a gallery, you would have to rock up.
Speaker: where you work you'd have to physically go to the shop or the venue and show it to them and they might just say no no thanks and it's really you know that's crushing and really you might only be able to go to physically go to three or four places and if they all say no then you've had it because the other thing a side issue is like research your galleries
Speaker: so it's no it's no good going to a sculpture gallery if you're making tea pots and it's no point going to a craft gallery that specializes in tea pots if you make sculptures so research galleries develop an online presence because then you can if you contact them it gives you the air of professionalism you know i think it
Speaker: no matter what you're doing if it's the first thing you've ever done or you've been doing it for years you can present yourself as though you know what you're doing and then people will just look at your work and don't be dispirited if people turn you down because I know from my experience that say say I contact 10 galleries maybe six of them might
Speaker: except me four might say no it's just they're the wrong place for me so what i'd say is like get your best work get it photographed as best as you can get it presented on instagram or a website or whatever you want to do get an artist's state maybe a bio and sort of present it all in that way
Speaker: Well, another good thing about being on Instagram is that once you've sort of established yourself to be the best, the galleries that I deal with now that are best for me are ones that found me and approached me because it's another dynamic, you know, like if they, you, Nick, have set up a gallery and I come to you, you know, maybe you feel a bit grumpy that day or
Speaker: You know what I mean? You're like, nah, I'm just not feeling this, get lost, sort of thing. But if you find me on Instagram and you think, oh, this is good work, and you approach me, then the dynamics completely switched, isn't it? And that's nice, actually.
Speaker: That was some excellent advice right there. I love that so much. So let's talk about discovering your voice. What is the best experience that you have had that has helped you with your growth as an artist?
Speaker: That's a tricky one. It's like I said, I've been an enthusiast all my life. I love art of all kinds. So when I was a kid, I grew up in quite a small seaside town in Britain. Had a local library, had a small art section.
Speaker: So like one week I'll get a book about Art Nouveau jewelry. The next week I'll be getting a book about Picasso. The next week I'll be doing this. I like going to places. I like going to art galleries. I like doing things. It's hard to say. I've got obviously sketchbooks. I would recommend people keep sketchbooks. I mean, I have sketchbooks.
Speaker: And if you look through them, you wouldn't see a picture of anything that I've made. But it's maybe got things that just occurred to me or little doodles or just like a creative process that's going on in your mind. Yeah, that's a real tough one, really. So now, what advice would you give to someone that is looking to discover their own unique voice with their pottery?
Speaker: oh yeah so well like i was saying like we all have influences we all see things that we like but i'd say yeah don't copy you're never going to find your own voice if you copy
Speaker: I think the great thing about clay is you can, because it's 3D and it's a physical object, when I was starting I used to start making something and it would be like oh I'm going to make a teapot and now I'd start making how I'm building the teapot or something. But just the way I'd push my thumb into it would suggest something else and it would just end up being
Speaker: something else and I would just follow follow that so I'd be like free be free you know explore suck suck influencing like a sponge but like I say don't copy like suck you know expose yourself to as much good art of all type of all types not just not just ceramics or pottery
Speaker: but don't copy it like bring it in let your brain mash it up and then get it out and then hopefully hopefully you'll find your own voice excellent advice right there so as we're coming to a close here today what is one thing you want to hammer home with my audience today one one thing that's tough
Speaker: everything I've already said in the rest of the thing. What I just said before really, it's like have your mind open to stuff, to influences.
Speaker: Look at great art. Look at great pottery. Learn. You learn. Constantly strive. Yeah, alright. The one thing I would say is do your best. Always do your best. Like, I've done things. I've made things in the past.
Speaker: and i've sort of thought well you know i can't really be bothered finishing this or you know i've got a kill on to fire tomorrow or i need it finishing right and i've sort of compromised on it and it's never worked out it's never been a good decision it's like do do everything as best as you can and just have a high just have a high standards
Speaker: I'd say that's the one thing like have high standards and stick to them. Definitely agree and that was some excellent parting words of advice. Drew, it was so great chatting with you today. Where can my artist go and learn more about you?
Speaker: yeah well i'm on instagram obviously at drew canes ceramics which is it's like a daily one so i'll be posting things that i'm making things that are interesting to me but i've also got another profile which is at drew canes
Speaker: gallery which is more just finished pieces and i'd actually say that it's good advice to i picked it up from somebody else but it's like if you have if you have two profiles have one that's your sort of day to day making or you know your process because people like to engage you know if people are going to buy your work they quite like to buy into the the whole process of how it's made and that sort of stuff
Speaker: But on the other hand, that can get a bit tedious to people who don't want to see all that. So it's good to have another profile where you just have.
Speaker: this is finished this is finished this is finished so you can refer so if I'm approaching a gallery I will always point them to my Drew Kain's gallery profile because it's just the finished pieces or if someone approaches me about doing a commission or something I'll send them to that so yeah at Drew Kain's ceramics and at Drew Kain's gallery
Speaker: Thanks for listening to this episode of Shaping Your Pottery with Nick Torres. If you want to start discovering your own unique voice, you must first start with the right questions. That's why I put together a free 15 question booklet for you to start discovering your own unique pottery voice. All you have to do is go to shapingyourpottery .com forward slash questions to get this free booklet.
