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Letting Go Of Overthinking In Pottery with Sage Morgan
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In this episode, Nic Torres interviews Sage Morgan, a talented potter known for her sgraffito designs inspired by small creatures and plants. The discussion covers Sage's journey into pottery, starting at age 15, the importance of patience in pottery, and how assistance roles have shaped her skills. Sage explains her unique approach to pottery, incorporating 2D designs into 3D forms using porcelain, inspired by Japanese and Korean pottery. She also shares valuable advice on overcoming anxiety, the benefits of in-person vs. online sales, and the significance of discovering one's unique artistic voice. The conversation emphasizes the importance of community, continuous experimentation, and learning from others in the pottery craft. You can learn more about sage by checking out her instagram https://www.instagram.com/grumpydwarfpottery/
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00:00 Introduction and Newsletter Invitation 01:07 Interview with Sage Morgan Begins 02:20 Sage's Journey into Pottery 03:23 The Role of Being an Assistant 06:11 Discovering Sgraffito Pottery 07:59 Overcoming Artistic Anxiety 16:01 Business Side of Pottery 22:57 Finding Your Unique Voice 28:39 Final Thoughts and Advice
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Transcript
Invitation to Pottery Insights
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, real quick, before we get started, if you want to dive deeper into the techniques and the lessons I've learned from the potters I've interviewed, come join the Shaping Your Pottery newsletter to dive deeper and learn more about pottery. Go to shapingyourpottery.com forward slash newsletter or click the link in the description.
Interview with Sage Morgan
00:00:17
Speaker
What is up, Shaping Nation? This is Nick Torres here, and on today's episode, I got to interview Sage Morgan. Sage makes some incredibly awesome sgraffito designed pottery that is inspired by small creatures and the plants that they live in.
00:00:30
Speaker
In this episode, you will learn about how Sage makes these graffiti styled pots. You will also learn how Sage lets go of overthinking how this frees her up to make pottery that she truly enjoys. You'll also learn about Sage's best advice to selling in person and online for her own pottery business. And there's so much more in this episode. I hope you guys enjoy it and I'll see you guys in there.
00:00:56
Speaker
If you love pottery and want to take your skills to the next level, you're in the right place. Find your own pottery style right here on Shaping Your Pottery with Nick Torres. Let's get started.
Patience in Pottery
00:01:08
Speaker
Sage, welcome to Shape Your Pottery and share with me what is something you wish you knew before starting pottery.
00:01:14
Speaker
Oh, I would definitely say patience. Pottery is not something that is immediate. And previously, I was focusing mostly on 2D work. And that could be, you know, you draw it from pen to paper and you have it. And with pottery, there is a lot more time, a lot more stuff that's out of your hands, even though you're working on it with your hands, funny. But and having a lot of trust in the kiln while also having trust in the kiln, but being okay with something that's maybe not what you initially thought. And I think most of the pots that I get that come out of that circumstance are my favorites that I don't plan on that yeah in ah even in like ah oxidation to soda firing, to gas firing, it can all vary in very beautiful ways.
Collaborative Artistic Growth
00:02:10
Speaker
Definitely grease shaping nation. Have patience and not everything's going to go your way, but sometimes those are the best things that come out of the kiln. Absolutely love that. Yes, I yeah. So tell me the story how you got started making pottery.
00:02:24
Speaker
So I started throwing when I was 15 years old. So I am 26 now. So 10 years, that's pretty crazy to think about. But it was actually a filler class because I couldn't get the 2D class that I wanted because I had to take French for high school. And my teacher, we had wheels in in my school. I don't know how.
00:02:52
Speaker
Common that is now sadly, but she threw me in the clay to class and was like I think you can do it and I struggled but I think One it was humbling. I think clay is one of my best teachers along with my art teachers from high school but again, it's a different medium and any medium is going to teach you something different and clay was patient time in patience and patience and I absolutely agree. Definitely love that. So you contribute growth as an artist to being an assistant. Can you tell me more about this? Yeah. So from high school, I grew up in Gainesville, Florida. I moved up to North Carolina and Western North Carolina. And I went to school at Haywood Community College. And they have an amazing craft program that kind of coincides with a community college program.
00:03:50
Speaker
I went there and because I was in an area that was so packed full of art, of craft, of people, you're going to find jobs working for them.
00:04:02
Speaker
and an assistant No, you can have a traditional assistantship, but I think I lean more towards working with a lot of different people. So somebody would call me up and say, hey, I need my kiln cleaned. Come and clean my kiln. And of course, I'm being paid. I should make that clear. But come clean my kiln. Come make a glaze for me. Come help me set up for a show. And I think that passive learning is one of the most
00:04:34
Speaker
important and unseen things when learning about not just like making, but you know organizing yourself in a making space. So how did this experience help you with your own pottery journey?
00:04:50
Speaker
so many things i mean Even just being invited to somebody's studio to work in it You just get to look around see how they organize stuff see how maybe they're prepping their pots and even if And maybe like what i'm trying to get at is that even if it's not specifically geared towards what i'm doing in that moment learning from somebody else can be very I mean life-changing for what you do because i would say a majority of people that i work for do atmospheric firings and work in an electric kiln i'm probably not going to use that in my day-to-day basis but if i need to use that skill at another point say at a school assisting somebody it's in the it's in my back burner or in the back of my head but in terms of like
00:05:45
Speaker
let's say my work, from those opportunities, I get to go to places where I learn and get to focus on my work more, if if that's a good answer. I love that. Shaperdation, the more you get around other people, the more you're going to learn and you're just going to absorb so many more things that can help you with your pottery and your journey. Absolutely love that. Yes, yeah.
00:06:08
Speaker
So let's talk about your pottery. Can you tell me the story, how you started making the graffito pottery that you make
Fusion of 2D Art and Pottery
00:06:15
Speaker
today? Mm hmm. So. So I started out doing 2D work before the clay. And when I started really fight like throwing pots that I was like, okay, I want to start putting work or 2D work on it, struggled because i I wasn't getting that like pen on paper, black on white. And it wasn't until I got to college that I started throwing with porcelain that something clicked.
00:06:43
Speaker
And of course, you could put white slip over red clay and all that goodness. But something about the porcelain really clicked my brain into gear. And I started researching a lot of Japanese, Korean inspired pottery, or I should say Japanese and Korean or ancient pottery. And I was inspired from those.
00:07:09
Speaker
to put my own motifs on my pottery, based on a lot of those pots from back then. And I think Scraffito is what I finally landed on, because it's very literal. You're just drawing on a pot, at least to me. And I think that's what was very helpful to like simplify that 2D and 3D gap, because as soon as I was like, oh, it's like a 3D piece of paper, which seems silly to say out loud, but Yeah, that that porcelain really did something for me. What were you feeling when you when that moment clicked for you?
00:07:46
Speaker
Oh, I got to make like 10 pots and make a ton and test. I don't know. And maybe that's just like
Embracing Imperfections in Art
00:07:54
Speaker
getting over a little artist block hump. Maybe people can relate to that. Um, maybe that's the feeling I was getting like, uh-huh, to where I was finally comfortable and putting something on the pot because I think I, for me, I struggle ah in previously, I struggled a lot with overthinking kind of like,
00:08:17
Speaker
ah ah andm I'm going off on another tangent in my head, but I'm overthinking what to put on the pot when in reality, kind of like what I was saying earlier, the piece that you experiment on is almost always going to be your favorite. ah Kind of letting go of that tightness around having not everything be perfect, but the way you want it to look.
00:08:41
Speaker
per se, and once you like step back and let yourself do, which this is, i'm I'm simplifying it and making it sound a lot easier, but like that anxiety, that do you know what I'm talking about? Am I explaining? Yeah. Yeah. Because everything has to be so perfect, but once you let that go, it becomes free.
00:09:00
Speaker
Right it's free and I think that's a very good example word for it because when you're in your head you can feel very you see that image that you want and and you really want to produce that but being okay with it maybe yeah being a little bit different is Yeah, ah a part of that journey. And I think that's the thing that I appreciate and love more in my work is finding that place, maybe not even that finished product sometimes.
00:09:34
Speaker
I absolutely love that. What do you think are, so what are some things you have done to help you get over that and anxiety of trying to be perfect with your pots? Yeah. And ah people may not like the answer, but Sketchbook, I'm sorry, Sketchbook. And I think that coincides with the Sketchbook tour is going to use this as an example because you want your Sketchbook to be perfect. Do you sketch in a Sketchbook at all?
00:09:58
Speaker
every once in a while. i will And do you get like that feeling of I want this page to look perfectly formatted and like when someone opens it I want them to be like oh it's a masterpiece like immediately like and I think I felt that way.
00:10:14
Speaker
growing up. um Now I draw off for myself um and those motifs happen to go on my pottery so like plants. I love plants. I love creatures. I love bugs and drawing those bring me joy and when you combine the pottery and that thing I think it makes the process all the better.
00:10:41
Speaker
I absolutely agree. Now earlier you mentioned that before you were doing pottery, you were focusing more on 2D work. How did that help you with your sgraffito pottery that you make today? You can't just think of.
00:10:54
Speaker
The pot as like a drinking device, it becomes like, how am I supposed to describe this? it like I want there to be intention in the pottery while you're using it. So it's not just I'm sipping a cup, maybe. like Maybe a story is coming out on the pot. So you have to think about how somebody picks up a pot. like What's the first thing somebody does when they pick up a pot? You look at the bottom. So I'm like, OK.
00:11:24
Speaker
i Want there to be a surprise there or I want to think about how the pot Holds food and like when you're done eating Oh surprise slug when all of my food is gone and I've eaten it all and I think once I started thinking about the intention of how people use it that made me put my drawings on it and It may be more of a playful way because I like my work in 2020 to 2021 like these very dense mushroom patterns I would almost call them compared to the work I do now which is more scenic. Like you have maybe a bush of like jewelweed and you have a single slug reaching out doing something rather than like
00:12:11
Speaker
this very dense pattern. And I think I love that play with the piece more than just stacking a pattern on it, if that makes sense. Absolutely love that. And I love to hear about that. So as you mentioned earlier, you are inspired by small creatures and the plants to call home. Tell me more about this.
00:12:33
Speaker
Well, I guess like, and if you could find something under a rock, I love it. It's creepy crawly, moist. I don't know. And I see my favorite stuff. Love our decomposers. I mean, slubs are my favorite. I think I've loved them maybe since I would say early middle school and along with mushrooms, but.
00:12:54
Speaker
I guess now, as I've grown up in reading, ah so much important stuff goes on in our soil that, yeah, I could go on. But just maybe bringing attention to that beauty and then maybe in part we could pay attention more and see them rather than seeing them as pests in our yard or something. Because if you're seeing creepy crawlies, do you have a healthy environment? You're doing something right.
00:13:23
Speaker
Absolutely love that shaping nation. If you have something that you love try to put that into your own pottery And that's how you grow your party voice and how you make party that you call your own.
Avoiding Common Pottery Mistakes
00:13:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yes So now what do you think are the most common mistakes people make when trying to do scruffy dough? Oh maybe not testing enough and maybe going back to that anxiety, test don't be afraid of testing, but also maybe like something in the back of my mind that I've been thinking about recently is like that conversation of copying. And I think that word can be very scary, but I think if you are
00:14:09
Speaker
Being unintentional, it could be a very powerful learning tool because what did every master do when they were learning? They copied other masters.
00:14:20
Speaker
But they also didn't, well, they might have not credited people. But I mean, if it hits this you're learning, I think copying something you love is foundation stone. While giving, of course, giving people credit, we have to do that. Don't sell it or all that good stuff. But for practicing, I think people Get a little scared because they don't want to insult or step on the toes. If I don't know of other people um and also I think our teachers will be like talk like a little or or even like fellow artists or crafts people in a community, but I think
00:15:04
Speaker
I mean, I draw my favorite Potter's pots in my sketchbook and learn so much from that because I can one draw a line and see how I mean it's very different from drawing, but there is a learning by looking and yeah, and you'll stop there. Yeah, there's a learning by looking. I think that's something to say.
00:15:26
Speaker
Absolutely love that. Shaping Nation, copying isn't a bad thing. Use it as a tool to help you build your skills and find your own voice. As long as you're not continuing copying what other people are doing, use it as a tool to help you. I absolutely love that. Yeah. And I think the tool word is very important. And I think the beautiful thing about, like say, a pottery community is if you love somebody's work, send them a message. They are almost 1,000% willing to share X, Y, and Z if you were curious. Absolutely agree. Definitely agree 100% on that. yeah yeah So let's talk about the business side of pottery. Can you tell me about the moment when you decided to become a full-time potter?
Path to Full-Time Pottery
00:16:07
Speaker
So my school that I went to, Hayward Community College, had a pottery and business program. So I was very lucky to kind of go to school having that making and learning side of like the art of the art. But then we had to go to marketing class. We had to go to business class, learn about business tactics and all that good stuff.
00:16:34
Speaker
So I came out of school very much ready, but I still had to work a job. So it wasn't like straight out of college, I was able to do this by myself. And I was like living with a parent, that should be said. And after that, saving all that good stuff, you eventually get there. you know What do you think, sorry, what do you wish you knew before becoming a full-time potter? Who knows?
00:17:01
Speaker
And again, I should say, I'm so lucky to be in an area that's so condensed full of people that can ask if you have anything, but maybe I'm drawing a blank there because I think it was very innate that I wanted to do this as my job, like since I was 15, even before this specialized program up in the mountains, because yeah, I think I struggled a lot with finding out what I wanted to do and I knew I wanted to do art in some way. Yeah, I'm not answering that very well. and No worries. So you saw both online and in person. Where do you think more people should focus their time on? Well, I think both. it really Well,
00:17:51
Speaker
Both is my answer, but I should say if you...
Selling Pottery: Online vs. In-Person
00:17:57
Speaker
I think there are pros and cons. Let's say that. I think online you have reach. Selling online is great because you can get far and wide. But I just came off of doing a couple shows in person for the first time in a while.
00:18:12
Speaker
And there is nothing like being able to go to a show and see people. I think they're just very different vibes in these two things. So like online, you have that reach, but in person, I feel like it's more community driven. So if you're looking for that, going to shows, meeting the people that are selling in your community, even if it's not say like clay,
00:18:39
Speaker
I think that's very fulfilling and I think that's something I very much want to focus on next year more than selling online, even traveling maybe even further than the East Coast. But being able to have that conversation in person I think is Yeah, something you don't get while selling online. But online, yeah, if if you're somebody that likes to be a little Herman on the inside, it's fabulous. You just click any click button. So now what do you think for selling in person or at shows, what do you think makes a good in person show to be able to sell your party like that?
00:19:19
Speaker
Well, it depends. I think knowing, would you mind expanding on that question a little bit? I think people should be making to sell their pottery more easier. I think having a wide range product price-wise, so for selling, for instance, from like Even a five to $20 range, I think, is wonderful, like little tokens, um little clay tiles. People loved tiny things. Gosh, do they love tiny things.
00:19:56
Speaker
But yeah, adapting what you're doing to have a broad price range because I myself am definitely more on that high zone because I'm doing all of this and carving by myself. green Excuse me. So if I, if someone walks up, they're like, oh, $90 mug. I can get that, but maybe.
00:20:18
Speaker
$10 coin. It's around that price range or you can just see someone not wanting to pay $90 for a month that day. That was some excellent advice right there. I absolutely loved that. So now what what advice other advice would you give to someone who could you also become a full-time potter?
00:20:37
Speaker
yeah I think community is very important. I think you're always going to find artists no matter what. And yeah, again, I love to say that I, I feel like, like Western North Carolina, for instance, it's so packed full of, of people who have like sketchbook clubs or, and and maybe I shouldn't say just that Western North of Carolina, but well, let me like start my thought over maybe a good way.
00:21:07
Speaker
to start his community, but who? Do you mind asking the question again? It was, what advice would you give to someone looking you to also who is also going to become a full-time potter?
00:21:24
Speaker
I think selling in person. i think Yeah, okay. Here's a good one. I i really like selling in person because I get to see people's actual reaction to the pot. like and know maybe Maybe this is very specific, but um if you're at the point where you're wanting to sell work,
00:21:47
Speaker
You're starting out doing some shows. I think it's very important seeing how people interact with your work, seeing what people are drawn to the most. And I think this goes the same for like buying things online. I feel like I have more popular things online than in person, if that makes sense.
00:22:10
Speaker
and maybe like gearing towards those things. like When I am in person, I think people like my small things a lot more than online because they can see them. They're tangible. They can hold them.
00:22:24
Speaker
Well, online, I think a lot of these big ticket items go faster. Excuse me. A lot of these big ticket items go faster because it's easier to click a button. And honestly, when you're online and and when I'm online, I feel like it's a lot easier to buy something that's a little bit more expensive. So maybe there's like a benefit impulse. I don't know. I'm rambling.
00:22:53
Speaker
No worries. so let So let's talk about discovering your
Finding Your Pottery Style
00:22:57
Speaker
voice. Can you tell me about the moment when you knew you were heading in the right direction with your pottery? Oh, I think it was that porcelain clip. I think it was that. When I started painting mushrooms, I also used to do a lot more human figures on my work, kind of like in a mushroom forest.
00:23:17
Speaker
I immediately, we would have holiday sales at my school and those would one go quick, which I was very flattered by. I was like, oh my goodness, I never imagined people would like naked ladies on a cup like I do. But I think that also goes back to the like copying as a tool conversation we were having because I think once you kind of marry the things you love and the things that you're trying to sell together,
00:23:51
Speaker
people can people can like feel that like excitement off of you. like If you're making something that genuinely makes you excited, I think people will gravitate towards that no matter what you're doing. And I think when I started finding my voice, started expanding my love of like plants and these little creatures and people coming up to me during shows, like I never thought a slug could be cute. Or I never, I haven't seen this plant since I was at my grandma's house when I was little. um And I think that I build off of that because yeah, it reminds me of my plant stories or different things like that. I absolutely love that. Shaper Nation, the more you focus on what you love, the more other people start to notice it as well. And that's how you find your voice. I absolutely love that.
00:24:42
Speaker
What would you say was the hardest thing about discovering your own voice? Oh, or not being, oh, I think embarrassed is a very strong word, but yeah, not being embarrassed or anxious.
00:24:55
Speaker
anxious Those are two words I would use. Yeah. Cause what, like a lot of what ifs come into play when you start putting something that's maybe a little bit sensitive or that, I mean, that's you on piece of work and that could be raw too.
00:25:13
Speaker
What has helped you with getting over this anxiety about your work? I think doing more of it helps.
00:25:22
Speaker
sh eat Each day there's a little bit of that a in anxiousness, imposter syndrome, what have you, when when like working starts because Yeah, the internet is how the internet is. And I think that kind of influences art now, sadly, because that is a tool of marketing. And you have to think about how you market with, with the product. ah But think, yeah, I think of repetition. But again, I think it goes back to that, like, once you start putting yourself out there, I think it really does get a lot easier. Yeah. I don't know.
00:26:03
Speaker
Absolutely love that. Shaping Nation, the more you put yourself out there, the more you're going to have to start putting more reps in, and the more reps you put in, the better your work becomes, the less anxiety you have, and the less impostions you have because you you gain confidence with yourself. Yes, I think confidence in that word was like a little right above my head. I think confidence, then it bob confidence in throwing, confidence in being able to explain yourself and why you love something. I think that comes so naturally when You've been one doing it for a while, like, ah you you know, when kids are like, Oh, I don't have my style or something. And and I think style only becomes your style. And I mean, your, your hand moves the way it does. I don't know. I don't think it's conscious. I think it's you, like you, but not you are your style, but
00:26:55
Speaker
You become your style. Become your style. Yeah. And I think that's something like if I had a room full of like middle schoolers, because that's when I was my most like, well, I'm not like doing the best I can. and I'm not drawing like this 30 year old that I'm looking at on the internet, like step back and be like, what can I do and how can I improve in myself? And I think that's really hard. Full heart.
00:27:19
Speaker
absolutely agree. That was some excellent advice right there. So now, what advice would you give to someone looking to discover their own unique voice with their pottery? Keep throwing by pots from people you love, support artists. I mean, I've bought pots because I i love the artists and I hope I can make pots as good as them one day. Using pots, see why you love pots, or I should say see the pots you choose in your kitchen and why you love it. Talking a lot about intention, but I think you really do bring a lot of that to the wheel once you start
00:27:56
Speaker
Not just using their work, but your work, too. I don't know how you feel, put like but when I was in college, I was like, oh, I don't want to use my work. It feels like I'm hanging. or like i'm I'm being like, I don't know, overconfident. I don't know what I'm trying to say because I think it's silly now. I can't even explain how I was feeling, but I think using your work is also a very good tool for discovering like what to improve on and what you like. Like I still have pots from college that I like for some reason, but I maybe don't know yet. I can like see them in my head right now.
00:28:38
Speaker
Some excellent advice right there. Sage, it has been a wonderful chat today and as we come to a close here, what is one thing you want to hammer home with my listeners today?
Kindness and Learning in Creativity
00:28:45
Speaker
Well, I would say be kind to yourself in the making process and remember you can always make another pot. I think it's okay if you flop a couple and if you break a call.
00:29:01
Speaker
if you break a couple because Clay is so willing to let you make another. And God, is that fabulous or what? I absolutely love that. Sage, it's been a wonderful time today. Where can my listeners go and learn more about you? So I am Grumpy Dwarf Pottery on all socials. am That's about it. I don't have deals. I don't have much else, but yeah, he's trying to be there.
00:29:29
Speaker
Hey thanks for listening to this episode of Shaping Your Pottery with Nick Torres. If you want to master the art of pottery and dive deeper into the techniques of the potters I interview, I created a newsletter that does just that. It dives deep into the techniques of the potters I interview. If you want to learn more, go to shapingyourpottery.com forward slash newsletter or click the link in the description to learn more.