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Breaking Pottery Norms with Carol Horst
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In this episode of 'Shaping Your Pottery,' Nic Torres interviews Carol Horst, a ceramic artist known for her unique stacking sculptures. Carol shares her perspective on unconventional practices in ceramics, the importance of trusting artistic instincts, and the value of being part of a creative community. She discusses her journey into sculpture, overcoming traditional pottery constraints, and evolving through technique development. Carol also touches on how her identity as a twin influences her work, the significance of continually looking at art, and offers insights for artists aiming to find their own voice and succeed in the art world. You can learn more about Carol by checking out her instagram https://www.instagram.com/carolhorstceramics/
Get your 53 themes by clicking this link shapingyourpottery.com/53themes
For more episodes go to shapingyourpottery.com
00:00 Introduction and Free Themes Offer 00:30 Interview with Carol Horst Begins 01:14 Challenging Pottery Norms 02:46 Journey into Sculpture 04:14 Techniques and Evolution of Sculptures 05:42 Building Larger Sculptures 07:16 Importance of Creative Community 10:42 Inspiration from Materials 12:17 Multiplicity in Artistic Vision 15:01 Business Side of Pottery 18:36 Discovering Your Voice 24:57 Final Thoughts and Parting Words
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Transcript
Introduction to Pottery Themes with Nick Torres
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, real quick before we get started. If you would like to find your own theme for your pottery so you your voice really stands out and you're not getting bored with making the same thing over and over again, I put together 53 themes for you guys and it's completely free.
00:00:18
Speaker
All you have to do to get it is just go to shapingyourpottery.com forward slash 53 themes. That's shapingyourpottery.com forward slash five three themes. I'll see you guys in there.
Interview with Carol Horst on Stacking Sculptures
00:00:30
Speaker
What is up Shaping Nation? This is Nick Torres here. And on today's episode, I got to interview Carol Horst. Carol makes some incredible sculptures she calls stacking sculptures. In this episode, you'll learn why Carol goes down the route of making sculptures instead of making something else.
00:00:46
Speaker
You'll also learn about trusting your artistic instincts and how this can help you with finding your own voice. One of the last things you'll learn about is the power of being around other creative people.
00:00:57
Speaker
And there's so much more in this episode. I hope you guys enjoy it and I'll see you guys in there. If you love pottery and want to take your skills to the next level, you're in the right place.
00:01:08
Speaker
Find your own pottery style right here on Shaping Your Pottery with Nick Torres. Let's get started.
Carol's Unconventional Pottery Techniques
00:01:15
Speaker
Carol, welcome Shaping Pottery and share with me what is a commonly held belief in the pottery world that you passionately disagree with?
00:01:22
Speaker
Okay. So I think that for me, it's more the other way around because I've run into some pearl clutching around things that I do all the time in my ceramics sculpture practice, like things like using cold finishes, which are finishes that aren't fired on or firing to the wrong clay, wrong temperature for the clay body, like under firing content clay, for example.
00:01:51
Speaker
My background, my academic background is in art, not specifically ceramic. So for me, clay is just another medium to use expressively. I use it like any medium to fit my creative um purposes. And sometimes the pottery rules and restrictions that people talk about and I run into seem unnecessary when applied to sculpture. So they seem a little nutty sometimes.
00:02:18
Speaker
And of course, my processes wouldn't make sense if I was making functional wear. And then you have a whole different set of concerns. But for sculpture, you know,
From Painting to Sculpture: Carol's Artistic Journey
00:02:27
Speaker
people will say, well, how can you put paint on ceramics or how can you not fire soldate to Conten?
00:02:34
Speaker
It now its just seems a little, it can be a little weird. Agree, Shaping Nation, not every rule in pottery needs to be followed. You could make your own rules and go with the flow that way. Absolutely love that.
00:02:46
Speaker
Tell me this story how you got started making sculptures. Okay, good question. I've been doing ceramics for about eight years. It wasn't my background. i was i did painting, I did photography, i was a teacher, but but so ceramics is fairly new to me.
00:03:02
Speaker
So I took a few typical beginning classes, but quickly moved into sculpture as soon as I learned how to handle clay. And as you know, it takes a while to learn how to handle clay competently because sculpture seemed to fit me and you know, what I wanted to do with art. And it also seemed limitless.
00:03:22
Speaker
Tell me more about that. It seemed limitless. Well, like I took a wheel throwing class and I'd come into the studio and I'm like, oh man, i have to throw another round thing.
00:03:34
Speaker
And, or I would take a hand building class and we'd be learning how to use slabs. And it's like, okay, I got to build another rectilinear square box type thing. And but then when I learned how to handle clay more and learn some sculpture processes, there was just a sense of freedom with what I could do.
00:03:54
Speaker
Absolutely agree. Shaping Nation, you don't have to be stuck doing just wheel throwing or hand building. If you want to make sculptures, you do that. And sculpture is also more freeing as well because you you don't have any other rules to go with it.
00:04:07
Speaker
Absolutely love that.
Innovative Sculpture Techniques
00:04:09
Speaker
So how would you say your sculptures have evolved into what you make now? My practice took a big leap when I learned ah this technique of making a form exactly like I wanted it out of solid clay. So you make whatever shape you want and you can make it look exactly well what, you know, the size you want and the shape you want and the texture you want. And then you cut it apart and you hollow it out and you put it back together.
00:04:36
Speaker
And That might sound like a tedious process, but for me it was really freeing because it meant that I could make whatever forms I wanted. So now I'm not only unlimited because I'm a sculptor and not you know making just functional wear, but it's also freeing because I can make whatever kind of forms I want with much fewer limitations. So it didn't have to be round like a coil pot or square like a slap box.
00:05:03
Speaker
or a cylindrical, like a wheel throne thing. It could be literally anything. And so I took a big leap with that technique development. And the other thing I think that led me to what I make now is that, you know as we know, there's a lot of sort of clay and size restrictions or there's clay, there's size restrictions with clay, I should say.
00:05:25
Speaker
Because, you know, you have kiln restrictions and you have just the material itself imposing restrictions on you, you know, it wants to collapse at a certain point and all that, that you're very familiar with. But I learned a few tricks for building larger and that was another door opening.
00:05:42
Speaker
Tell me more about the few tricks you learned to help you build larger sculptures.
Materials and Techniques for Large Sculptures
00:05:47
Speaker
Well, there's a lot of them, but it has to do with clay body, what clay body you choose, what you mix with it. And it has to do with the infrastructure that you can build inside of your piece.
00:06:01
Speaker
to strengthen it as you're building and it has to do with drying techniques so yeah i mean i'm i'm still learning things but those techniques are leading to be able to build bigger and bigger what are the what is the clay you are currently using for your sculptures well i use too many too many different kinds of clay but So I just moved to, I'll talk about that later, but I moved to a studio that doesn't have a gas kiln. So I'm trying to limit myself to mid-range electric kiln firing. So that gives me some options. I really like, like there's some sculpture clays out there that are great. They're very groggy and they're very strong and they practically join themselves when you put two pieces together.
00:06:51
Speaker
They're awesome, but they are rough, so you couldn't throw with them. So there's like FSB sculpture clay, there's Dixon sculpture clay that I like working with in mid range. There's a new clay that Laguna has, it's called Dark Horse, and it's a beautiful black clay that's very groggy and works great for sculpture.
00:07:10
Speaker
absolutely love that might have to try some new clays out for my own sculpture as well i absolutely love that yeah so you contribute growth as an artist to being a part of a creative community tell me more about this yeah that's been an important part of my growth as a ceramic artist i think it's been a really important part And I learned ceramics at a
The Communal Studio Experience
00:07:33
Speaker
communal studio. So it was a large studio.
00:07:36
Speaker
Every day you walked in, you were you know you had people to say hi to You were working right next to someone, sometimes not quite allowing them to have space. But the point was you were interacting with people all day, every day.
00:07:50
Speaker
And being around other creative people was an important part of my creative and technical growth in ceramics because I learned so much working beside other people who knew more than I did.
00:08:04
Speaker
And I would say I probably learned more just with casual conversations with people than I did from classes. I mean, classes were great, but, you know, the everyday thing like, how do you do this? Or what, you know, how much water to you use for this? Or, you know, it was just invaluable, really, that constant interaction. And I feel like coming from a different background, a non-ceramics background, I just feel like the ceramics community is so generous with knowledge. Like people just love to share.
00:08:32
Speaker
There's so many little tricks and stuff in ceramics and people just love to share what they've learned. And that was super valuable to me. And then year and a half ago, I started my own communal studio on a much smaller scale. so i I, grew out of that studio. i was working too big. I, I,
00:08:51
Speaker
was making too much for that you know particular setup. So i I started my own studio. It's called Umo Studios. It's in Pasadena. And I rent out individual studios to five other ceramic artists. And it's really wonderful ah because there's, you know I've never been a type of person that can work all day by myself in a studio.
00:09:16
Speaker
I go a little nutty. so In this studio, there's this creative energy that just kind of imbues the place. There's this opportunity to exchange ideas. So we're always in and out of each other's studios, asking questions or, Hey, can you come tell me what you think of this design kind of thing. And there's this inspiration that you don't get by working you know alone, I think, because you're seeing what other people are doing and it just it just kind of ups the ante a little bit. It ups the energy level.
00:09:49
Speaker
And so i I just see a lot of benefit from working with other people. I think we're all part of communities. I mean, there's there's the Instagram community and there's the actual community that you work with. And, you know, with the recent fires in Los Angeles, I think we were reminded that there's this larger art community that we're all super impacted by and connected to.
00:10:13
Speaker
And there's a lot of support out there. So whether your community is small, like my studio or digital, like Instagram or large, like the Los Angeles art community, I just, I just think that's an important part of, so definitely important part of my practice.
00:10:30
Speaker
Absolutely agree. And we were talking about that before we even started that, how I started this podcast actually helped me learn a lot more and seems it's the same thing as you talking with other people.
00:10:42
Speaker
Yeah. So, so you are inspired by the material you work with. Can you tell me more about this?
The Inspiration of Clay
00:10:50
Speaker
Well, you know it's hard to talk about clay without sounding cliche because as soon as you run into anyone who works with clay, it's like, oh, you know, this material is so great. It's like, you know, the most elemental thing. And, but you know, it's all, it's all true. Like the malleability of clay and the ability to turn it into whatever shape you want is really, i mean, it's kind of profound.
00:11:12
Speaker
And, and so i just love the medium and like most people who use it, I just love it. You know, it just goes back to your kid, your childhood, you're playing with mud and all those kinds of elemental primal things.
00:11:25
Speaker
And so if I want to start something new, i mean, usually I approach a project with sketchbook drawings. I often have my ideas fairly well worked out in a sketchbook before I start, especially if it's something complex, but Sometimes I just like i pick up a piece of clay and start squishing it and some idea will come out of that. So the material itself can be the inspiration for the art. I don't always come at every project with with this fully resolved idea.
00:11:55
Speaker
So I don't know, Nick, I'll never get tired of it. How about you? Definitely agree. I do find that just kind of starting to make, that's where the ideas start to come by simply just starting to make with the materials.
00:12:08
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. and and And it's really, Clay just kind of begs for that, doesn't it? That kind of approach. Yeah. Definitely agree. Something interesting I found from your website is you said, multiple please multiplicity is an essential component of artistic vision.
00:12:25
Speaker
Can you explain this to me further?
Art and Identity: Creating in Multiples
00:12:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question. So think we all come at our art from...
00:12:37
Speaker
with an identity and then that identity becomes intertwined with the kind of work we do in all kinds of ways. But one of the identities that I bring to my art practice is that I'm an identical twin.
00:12:51
Speaker
And so when I was young, friends would ask me, what's it like to be a twin? And how do you answer that? Because what's it like to not have a twin? I would wonder, I didn't have an answer for that because that was my only reality.
00:13:06
Speaker
In hindsight, I can look back and say that one way that I think it was different was that in my family or at school or whatever, i was always referred to as one of a set.
00:13:18
Speaker
So in other words, here's Peter, here's Barbara, here's Jane, and here are the twins kind of thing. So I was rarely an individual. And you can, you know, there were times when that was good and there was times obviously when it was not good, but that was my reality. So from that, my reality as an artist is that single objects don't quite seem complete.
00:13:41
Speaker
They always need something else there to play off against. So I'll make something and I'll be like, eh, just need something, you know? And then and then I'll make something else.
00:13:54
Speaker
And then the relationship between between the two things and the space in between them is meaningful. And I i love that. And so to me, it's satisfying to create things in multiples.
00:14:06
Speaker
For example, stacks, where the objects refer to each other for meeting. It just that just feels right to me because of who I am. That was a wonderful explanation of that. i absolutely love that.
00:14:18
Speaker
So very briefly, can you explain to me how you make one of your stacking sculptures? Well, if they're smaller stacks, I just join them in the traditional way that you join clay.
00:14:31
Speaker
If they're larger, then they need support. So I'll have a metal rod that goes through the center and that rod is welded onto a steel base. And then I found with that, I can go really high. so So i've I've got sculptures that are, I think, six and a half feet. That's probably the highest I'll ever go because it gets kind of crazy after that. but But yeah, that's how I that's how i stack things.
Retirement and Pursuing Art Full-Time
00:15:00
Speaker
I absolutely love that. So let's talk about the business side of pottery. Can you tell me about the moment when you decided to become a full time artist? Yeah, so I had a career in art education through college.
00:15:14
Speaker
And doing that along with raising children didn't give me enough time or headspace for a regular art practice. I see people that can do it all. I don't know how they do it. I bow down to them.
00:15:28
Speaker
i i couldn't do it. So I knew that I i was never able to be a fight ah you know a full-time artist really in my life until I retired from teaching, which I did kind of on the early side.
00:15:40
Speaker
And then when I retired, there was no drama around retirement because I knew exactly what I wanted to do. And I hit the ground running. and I think it took me about two days to get the tools to get started.
00:15:52
Speaker
And I've been working full-time on it ever since. What were you feeling when you finally became a full-time artist? I just felt like I finally get to do this and I'm so happy. And I honestly feel thankful for it every day. i mean it was just awesome.
00:16:09
Speaker
So now you have had a lot of your sculptures put into galleries. When was the moment you started applying to have your work put into your gallery into galleries? Well, I had this solo show opportunity drop into my lap really relatively early in my ceramics career. it was And then since then, I try to have my work included in at least a couple of shows a year.
00:16:31
Speaker
Now you are someone that has that primarily makes sculptures. What advice would you give to someone that also wants to have more success on their own sculptures?
Getting Art into Galleries: Strategies and Advice
00:16:41
Speaker
You mean in general or getting their work out there?
00:16:46
Speaker
both Okay. Well, I'm not sure about the general sculpture advice. I just think you, you need to, you know, you need to, decide where you want to go and then develop the techniques for going there. I i would have to get more specific.
00:17:03
Speaker
I would have to know the person better before I would give advice to anybody on how to be successful with sculpture. But in terms of being successful in the art world and galleries and whatnot, there's great resources online and in ceramic publications to learn about opportunities for juried and invitational gallery shows, and those are great. But the problem is that as you look through them, so many charge entry fees. And this this can be almost predatory because if you if you enter like X number of years, say if you want to if you want to be really aggressive about it and enter like 50 a year, you're out like over $1,000 in entry fees. So that's kind of crazy. Who can afford that? so
00:17:47
Speaker
I don't enter shows that are open to everyone and everything because you're not going to get in probably. And they're going to make a lot of money off those entry fees. And so I looked for, I look for theme shows that are a good fit stylistically for me and also location wise, because I'm not going to pay to ship my stoneware, you know, all over the country. So if there's something close by, and if I feel like my work is a fit for the gallery or for the invitational or for the juried show or whatever,
00:18:16
Speaker
I'll apply to that. So I really limit my applications to things that I think I have a chance of getting in. Absolutely love that advice. Shaping Nation, if you're looking about trying to put your work into galleries, look for theme shows.
00:18:30
Speaker
That way can cater your work towards those themes for the gallery. Absolutely love that. So let's talk about discovering
Instincts and Artistic Voice
00:18:39
Speaker
your voice. Can you tell me about the moment you knew you were heading in the right direction with your body?
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, I'm... So I think this, these kinds questions are hard for me to answer because I, that's not quite how it it is from my experience. So I will tell you this, I have a drive to draw and make things that is so strong.
00:19:01
Speaker
And it has been for as long as I can remember that to talk about like when I find my voice isn't, doesn't really apply to me because I, I don't think like that.
00:19:12
Speaker
I make things because I need to make things. And to be honest, I don't know whether I'm headed in the right direction or not. I never do. But I have a lifelong habit of of trusting my artistic instincts. So I guess it works.
00:19:27
Speaker
So you mentioned trusting your artistic instincts. Can you tell me more about that? Well, I just mean that I make things and I'm not always questioning whether this is good or whether it fits my voice or whether I should be making these things or whether they're good or whether they're bad.
00:19:48
Speaker
I can't, that's not a good place for me to be as an artist. I just make things. And then I trust that it's valuable because i had this drive to make them.
00:20:03
Speaker
Absolutely agree. Shaping Nation, trust your instincts and make what you want to make. And that's where your voice will be heading in that moment. Absolutely love that. What would you say has been your biggest obstacle when it's coming to find your own voice?
00:20:18
Speaker
Well, my voice was always there. I didn't really have to find it. The shapes I make, I i mean, they're my friends. That's really the best way to think about it making work now feels pretty much like it did when I was a little kid. If you want to watch, if you watch a kid that's in the process of making something, they're just absorbed in their own universe that they've designed, you know?
00:20:47
Speaker
And if I can get to that place, my work is strongest. So don't, I just tried to live in that world, you know? where you're absorbed and you're the zone and you're making your work and that's your voice, you know, if you can get to that. Absolutely agree.
00:21:09
Speaker
Absolutely agree. Absolutely love that. So outside of being part of a community, you also contribute your growth as an artist to looking at art.
Historical Inspiration and Artistic Influence
00:21:18
Speaker
Can you tell me more about this?
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah, I look at a lot of art and I feel like it's important to me as a person and to me as an artist and to my career. I am deeply moved by art that's made throughout human history.
00:21:34
Speaker
You know, I can look at ancient clay figures from ancient Greece at the Getty Villa. I can see third century sculptures from Peru at the Crocker Art Museum in Sacramento, which I did recently And these things grabbed me because i can imagine the people that made these forms had the same impulse to create as I do. And it feels like that transcends place and time. And I feel like it connects us as human beings. So I i find looking at art throughout the ages to be really moving.
00:22:16
Speaker
Absolutely love that. Shape of Dation, the more you look at art, even if it's just some something old or something new new, new ideas start to come to your head simply by looking at it. Absolutely love that.
Exploring Personal Interests to Find Your Voice
00:22:27
Speaker
So now what advice would you give to someone looking to discover their own unique voice with their pottery?
00:22:32
Speaker
Well, you can guess it one thing I'm going to say, which is maybe get offline for a bit and sit down with, if it were me, I mean, people have a different way of approaching their creativity. if This is what I do.
00:22:47
Speaker
Sit down with a sketchbook with no expectations or prejudgments. You just got to get in that place where you're not questioning whether it's good or bad. And sometimes that's hard. So in that case, you I might go to the art history section of the public library and get lost in those books for an afternoon.
00:23:07
Speaker
Or i might spend time looking up close at the sculpture collection at the Norton Simon Museum, which is my neighborhood museum. So whatever museum you have access to, I might visit other artists' studios and I might go to galleries regularly and look at contemporary art in real life.
00:23:27
Speaker
And then, you know, you can process that. Like what what moves you? Notice the commonalities of the art that moves you, whether you've seen it in a book or at a contemporary art gallery,
00:23:40
Speaker
or whatever, or online even. What are the commonalities of things that move you? Is it the form? Is it the color or texture or how, what the size is, is you know this the teaminess of it or the or the big scale of it? Is it the materials that move you or is it um a technical skill or craft?
00:24:03
Speaker
Is it cultural commentary? Is it expressive qualities? Is it the story it tells? I mean, it can be so many things, but sort of notice when you're moved by art, what it is that moves you. And, you know, it could be more than one thing, obviously, but it's probably going to focus on one thing. Like for me, I find form to be really beautiful. And I'm always kind of moved like that. And I'm always i'm always chasing forms that are meaningful to me.
00:24:35
Speaker
So then after you do those things, then grab your sketchbook and start drawing and thinking. And you might surprise yourself. I absolutely love that advice. Shape Nation, go out there and find stuff that you enjoy and then start making art, whatever it's if you're painting, drawing, sculpting, throwing on the wheel, whatever it is, just start making. Absolutely love that advice.
00:24:57
Speaker
Carol, it has been wonderful chatting today. And as we come to a close here, what is one thing you want to hammer home with my listeners today? Well, I'm not going hammer anything because you're listening your listeners are going to have to travel their own paths, and I respect those.
00:25:12
Speaker
But I think for all of us, I'm not going to give any advice, but it's good to be reminded that we're so lucky to be able to make things that we don't have to be behind desks staring at screens all day and in cubicles.
00:25:27
Speaker
And honestly, I'm thankful every day that I get to have the time to be creative. It really doesn't get better than that. So that's not really my advice, but it is a reminder that we're the lucky ones.
00:25:42
Speaker
I agree. Some excellent parting words. Carol, it's been wonderful chatting today. Where can my listeners go and learn more about you? They can go to, well, if you just Google me, you'll hit my Instagram page. You might hit my artwork archive database.
00:25:56
Speaker
And I just set up a webpage. So those three things, carolhorsceramics.com, you can start there. That'll take you to a few other links that you can use. Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of Shaping Pottery with Nick Torres.
00:26:09
Speaker
If you want your own theme for your pottery to stand out and to not be bored with whatever you're making, I put together 53 themes just for potters like yourself.
00:26:20
Speaker
Go to shapingyourpottery.com forward slash 53 themes to get these 53 themes that elevate your own pottery. See you guys in the next one.