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Xbox 20th Anniversary
274 Plays3 years ago
In this episode, Fraser (Satsunami) and Adam discuss what makes the Xbox so special after 20 years, from its dizzying highs to it's...less than stellar ones.
For more content from Satsunami, please click here!
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Transcript
Introduction and Xbox Anniversary
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chat Tsunami. I'm Sat Tsunami and looking back with me today on 20 years of Xbox, would you believe? God, I feel old. I better not fall down this rabbit hole. It is Adam. Welcome Adam. Hi there. Hi there. Good to be back and yeah, I was just wondering if it's been 20 years.
00:00:39
Speaker
At the time, well, at the time flies, but also drags at the same time. See, this is true. This is indeed true. Because this is the thing, you came to me like, I can't remember, I think it was just after we did last week's episode, and you said, oh, this would be a really good topic to discuss. And I thought, yeah, you know, discussing the Xbox would be like a really good idea. I mean, how long has it been, you know, like 10, 15 years? What is it? And you turned around, you were like, actually it's the 20th anniversary this year. And I was like, wait, what?
00:01:10
Speaker
84 years!
Evolution of Gaming Consoles
00:01:12
Speaker
It's been 84 years! Yeah, we'll be like old men just like on rocking chairs thinking back to the days of the Xbox D60.
00:01:22
Speaker
When is the Xbox One XS XS? Whatever, like many of the letters I'd like to put at the end of it. Yeah, it'll be like the Xbox like Phantom or like the Xbox. Yeah, just Xbox. You can hear it in a name, I feel. Now they've set a precedent for it being like just random letters. Usually X's or S's. Yeah, it'll just be like, it'll be like one word like Madonna, just Xbox. It'll be like Elon Musk's child name.
00:01:51
Speaker
That'll be the thing they'll go for. What did he call his child again? Don't make me try and get the things. Yeah okay, we'll move on from that. A random collection of letters and numbers
The Rise of Xbox in the Market
00:02:02
Speaker
and symbols. Oh yeah. Do you remember back in the day, this is me going off on a tangent, do you remember the day when if a celebrity was going to name their baby after something, it would be something wacky but simple like Apple or a country name, you know?
00:02:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's just numbers and letters. It's just rude. It's rude for people to look at it. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, as, you know, that very subtle introduction, yeah, kind of led you, kind of led the breadcrumbs into the discussion. Today we're going to be talking about a baby celebrity name. No, I'm joking.
00:02:39
Speaker
I'm going to be talking about the Xbox and of course it's 20 years and again I honestly I keep saying 20 years and then kind of like slowly and silently crying I don't think I would have even been 10 years old like 20 years ago that's kind of what's worrying me I'm thinking my god
00:02:58
Speaker
I wasn't, I wasn't, I was still single digits when it was when the Xbox released, when the original Xbox was released. It is very strange because I was actually talking to you about this before we came on but if you think about the kind of gaming landscape that we grew up with, don't get me wrong, we are not that old that were like 80s children but you know we kind of grew up through the kind of, would it be correct to say like the aftermath of the 80s?
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, well, definitely. I mean, like, well, I for myself was born early 90s, and so dealing with the hangover from the previous decade. Yeah, because I mean, I have to admit, I was fortunate in the sense that I had like older brothers that got those consoles, like, you know, the NES, the SNES and everything. And those were the kind of consoles or the kind of companies like Sega and Nintendo
00:03:49
Speaker
they were the ones that were like dominating the market at the time and even I don't I think it was the late 90s where like even the PlayStation came about and it was really like it was just these kind of three companies wasn't it like you had Atari and everything but let's face it see other than this style just like when was the last time you heard Atari like as a main player
00:04:13
Speaker
And I'm sorry for all the Atari fanboys out there. I'm sorry. Nobody's an Atari fanboy. I refuse to believe there's Atari fanboys out there. There's a lot of things you can hit your wagon to. Why would you hit your wagon to Atari? I refuse to believe it.
00:04:30
Speaker
Yeah, if there's any Atari fanboys out there, like if you want to email us anonymously,
Microsoft's Console Market Challenges
00:04:36
Speaker
at chatsanami, or sorry, chatsanami at gmail.com, please feel free and let us know if you're an Atari fanboy. Tell us how the spectral realm is because you clearly don't exist. Oh no. Yeah, okay, that's half our base going.
00:04:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's like a Venn diagram where it's like Atari fans. What's the other half of the Venn diagram? The other part of the Venn diagram. Well, according to you... Sorry, Dan's being blank. I was going to say, like, according to you, no taste. Just in the middle, that tsunami, it just kind of messled in there nicely. The one bit of taste they have. Yeah, the one crumb. Anyway, aside from bashing Atari,
00:05:25
Speaker
Aside from bashing Atari, so those were the kind of companies Sega, Nintendo and then eventually Sony came into the mix and they were like really big brands and correct me if I'm wrong but they were all like Japanese brands weren't they? Yeah well the three big ones were the ones that came to dominate for that period were old Japanese developers because the Western market had like kind of
00:05:50
Speaker
I might be wrong on this, but if I am wrong, apologies. But from what I understand, the Western market kind of kickstarted the console thing because Atari was, you know, much of his back to Atari there. They were like the early leader in that field. And then, you know, in the early is early 80s, early mid 80s with many high profile disasters, particularly the tee game and basically sunk the whole market. And they've never recovered. They never recovered from that. And it took quite, you know, the Japanese companies were the ones, particularly Nintendo were the ones to take that lead. But then Sony then took the baton on afterwards.
00:06:20
Speaker
it is, that's a whole discussion in itself of how it evolved. So probably so much in just a decade, you know, like just arcade to, you know, like home consoles and kind of introducing it to that. And my god, I mean, we could do a chat tsunami alone on just the kind of micro scale of
00:06:39
Speaker
and the wacky gadgets and things that came out of it. You know, the pivot glove. Maybe one day. That would be a great one one day, but I've had that down below. Exactly. We need to source one. Yeah, the virtual boy. There's loads of them anyway. But as you said, or rather confirmed, yeah, these were all like Japanese companies and I mean, they were like Western companies and I think the most prominent up until the Xbox
00:07:07
Speaker
was Atari. I mean, there would have been others trying to cash in. But it's kind of strange because I know Microsoft, obviously, that small indie company was starting to make strides in it, looking at gaming, thinking, oh, I want a taste of that. And then in 2001, which thank God I can say for definition it's 2001 because it's been 20 years of Xbox,
00:07:32
Speaker
The Xbox, or the original one, came into fruition and that was around the same generation as the PlayStation 2 and the Gamecube, wasn't it? They were the three big. That's what I vividly remember. It was that console. I think it was the sixth generation. That's what I thought, yeah. And those were the three big. I actually don't know if there was a
00:07:55
Speaker
Because there's a Dreamcast, and I don't quite know where the Dreamcast falls. No, the Dreamcast maybe falls more into the fifth generation. It might be more that level. But yeah, these were the three big ones, the Xbox, the PS2 and the GameCube. And I mean, you're getting the wrong. The PlayStation was absolutely massive. The first one was massive.
00:08:14
Speaker
The second one just blew everything out the water. I would say like hands down that is. Well, you just need to look at the sales of units like the PlayStation, the Xbox in its whole lifetime, I think sold 26 million units. The GameCube was 24 million units.
00:08:29
Speaker
The PS2 sold 115 billion. It wasn't even close. It wasn't even close in any respect in the sixth generation. It got a bit closer. It got much closer with the next generation of all their sequels. But yeah, this sixth generation wasn't even close. Sony were far and away the dominant player.
00:08:48
Speaker
And something that I find quite interesting, and I suppose this kind of reflects in my own experiences with the console growing up, so for full disclosure, I never owned a original Xbox. It's weird because my brothers owned, kind of one of them would get the Nintendo ones, and then the other one would get the Sega ones, and of course- Well, was there a war in your factory?
00:09:11
Speaker
your boring brothers. Surprisingly not, surprisingly. Well, you know, brotherliness, but not beyond the consulars, but it was quite interesting because I got to experience, like, I was lucky that I got to experience, like, both sides of it, you know, therefore, like, harboring a terrible habit of becoming a Sonic fan at that young age. Something that I am working on. Yes, I am talking to someone about it, so, you know, that's fine.
00:09:39
Speaker
But yeah, I think by that point, my brother had a PlayStation 2. I don't know if he got it himself or if it got it for his birthday. I can't remember, but I ended up getting a GameCube instead. And I always remember seeing the Xbox and kind of being very curious and being like, oh, can I get it? And at the time my parents were like, nah, not really.
00:09:59
Speaker
They were very much in the mindset, which obviously, for any parents listening out there, you'll know where a child says, oh, can I get that? And it's like, you're the meme. Oh, can I have Xbox? Oh, we've got Xbox at home. And they go home and it's like, I don't know, the VR virtual body.
00:10:18
Speaker
Gamecube painted black. Yeah exactly, oh god imagine. Do you know after that I was always jealous at the fact that, yeah it was, I think it was a Japan exclusive that they got a Gamecube that was just
Technological Innovations and Xbox Live
00:10:29
Speaker
bright orange and I was like, oh that would be your idea. Oh that would, I mean a Nintendo console that's bright orange like, sign me up coach, I am ready.
00:10:39
Speaker
But, like, that was the only kind of console I had at the time. Which I'm not saying that as an au-per-me and I've had an Xbox, but the only time I ever got exposed to an Xbox was either when I went to a friend's house, you know, like I would go over and be like, oh, you know, what are you playing? And I think one time they were playing like a Star Wars game, there was like all the other games out for it at the time, like Conquers Bad Third Day. There was even another game called
00:11:05
Speaker
and you're gonna laugh at this because i don't know if you know about this one that's called like blink or something yeah it was like their version of their animal mascot wasn't it it was like a mix a weird mix of like from what i'm excited only played a little bit but it was like a kind of weird mix of there's certain elements of mario
00:11:24
Speaker
and it was a bit like Luigi's Mansion as well because he had the um blinks had like a who the vacuum type thing that Luigi has yeah so they're kind of kind of keeping those Nintendo games yeah i always remember seeing that and thinking oh i really want to play it and i never got the chance because yeah i didn't get the xbox but i don't think i really missed correct me if i'm wrong did i miss much i mean it never really you know it's one of these games i think i played for a little bit
00:11:50
Speaker
But I did have a copy, but I think I'm going to get rid of my copy, so I was going to say, oh wait, you've got my copy, but I don't think I have it anymore. But no, like not one that released out of the games. I fondly remember the Xbox. I have to admit that's not one of them. I think they made a sequel technically. So there was one, I think.
00:12:06
Speaker
it was maybe it was like positive but the other one that was going to bring up though was Rareware you know a very famous punching bag that I like to bring up on the show because as I've said I was like a big fan of Rareware back in the day when it was still under Nintendo
00:12:23
Speaker
And that was the period, I'm sure, that they went over to Microsoft. And the only reason I remember that is because they brought out Conker's Bad Third Day on the Xbox, but it was like a remastered version to kind of show off what they... It was an added content as well, yeah.
00:12:39
Speaker
In fact, I think it was actually more censored on the Xbox version. But really? Yeah, there is a lot of the Swedens kind of bleeped out in some bits and there's certain bits that are taken out. It's a really weird design choice but I can kind of understand.
00:12:57
Speaker
because i'll remember seeing that in the shops and there was just like this huge sticker on the front of them and they would be like don't buy this for kids just don't don't buy this for kids please just it's not for kids don't buy it just just go away
00:13:16
Speaker
But, yeah, what was your experience of the Xbox? Well, the Xbox, original Xbox was the first ever console, was the first ever video game console I ever had. I'd played video games, like, on PC and stuff, and I had a Game Boy Color, and so I played some of the things there, but I never really, like, I never, like, really got into video games as such, but I kind of really always wanted a console.
00:13:37
Speaker
And I think after much badgering, my parents eventually relented. And that's why I vividly remember the three contenders, because it was trying to decide my 9 to 10-year-old self, trying to decide which one to get.
00:13:49
Speaker
out of the three of them. I think I've swung up points to all three. I was like, I want to get a PS2. No, I want to get a GameCube. But eventually I settled on, and I can't even remember really why, but I eventually settled on getting an Xbox. I think I quite like the color scheme. I like the kind of green and black, and maybe there's some games where I can't really remember it's that. But I decided to get an Xbox, and that's what made me the man I am today. I'd love to go visit like Alternate Reality Adams, where I chose one of the other consoles and just see.
00:14:19
Speaker
What changed in my life if I go to GameCube or something instead? Um, but that was the one I got so the original Xbox it it released in Europe in March 2002 so a few months after the um months after the November 2001 release in the States I must have got it about Mike my birthday's in April So I think I probably would have got it then maybe about my birthday time. I
00:14:41
Speaker
I kind of remember I'd have been 10 at that time. And yeah, I fell in love with Xbox and the games and everything. I bought my Xbox. I might have said the story already, but I bought my Xbox with a kind of racing game bundle.
00:14:56
Speaker
But I managed to finagle my way into replacing one of the racing games with Halo, which was obviously the flagship, the big flagship title that people were talking about. So I managed to finagle my way into getting one. I don't know how, but I managed to replace one of the games with Halo and got the bundle. And yeah, that kick-started me off. And we all know where we stand on Halo on this channel, don't we? That's what I get. He goes to that one, that episode. Episode two. Yep, go look for it.
00:15:22
Speaker
It's a very good retrospective. That's all I'm saying. It's a good retrospective. I would agree. But it's funny you actually mentioned the reason you chose an Xbox was because of the colour scheme and everything. Because when it was actually looking into the old Xbox, apparently this console wasn't very... I think it did well in the American market, but it didn't do well in Japan or Europe. Oh, it bombed in Japan. I was really surprised about Europe, but
00:15:52
Speaker
Japan, yeah Japan didn't know what to eat to the Xbox and I know we're gonna talk about it later but the Xbox C60 as well wasn't that big of a hit over there and I think obviously the reason for that is probably just the domestic companies like you know you've got
00:16:07
Speaker
Nintendo obviously is the flagship of gaming over there, or rather the olden art nowadays. You've got Sony, which let's face it, Sony and Microsoft are both like the huge contenders nowadays, even though they kind of faltered at times, but again that's another thing we'll definitely come to.
00:16:25
Speaker
but with the original Xbox, it just
Xbox 360: A Cultural Phenomenon
00:16:28
Speaker
boomed. And you would think that maybe that would have deterred them, but it must have done really well. That was the same console, mind you. As you were saying, you got Halo from this, and Halo 2 came out for this as well, didn't it? Yeah, Halo 2 was the biggest selling, I think, was the biggest selling game for the original Xbox. I mean, what's interesting is, from what I've read, the original Xbox was actually a huge money loser.
00:16:51
Speaker
Microsoft. I think it ended up losing them like something they lost like about five billion dollars with the Xbox and stuff it was a but being a big company they could absorb you know they could absorb that loss and it was worth it in the end because obviously a very profitable part of their business now.
00:17:06
Speaker
so you know it's that it's that kind of way of you know what's the old phrasing to spend money to make money and they put all yeah and they spent a lot of money to put a lot of dollars on this but it ended up being a success story for them but yeah like it kind of did set that i mean it was interesting as well as i find is that
00:17:24
Speaker
As Microsoft enters the console race, this seems to just be the end for Sega. They've obviously been faltering with their console, been faltering for a while, but with the entry of Microsoft, I think they looked at it and went, we're just going to get edged out of this now. There's no real space for us with this, so that's why they moved away from making consoles. It's interesting that the entry of this one just killed off one of the old guards.
00:17:49
Speaker
towards the beginning of the like sixth generation Sega had completely backed out of like console development so that kind of left like a ripe market for you know companies like Microsoft to kind of I wouldn't say weasel the way in they did like put effort like they didn't get like a shoddy product to get like rich quick they actually did innovate and considering the graphics at the time because I know the Xbox has always been praised for having
00:18:17
Speaker
really good graphics. Same with the PlayStation, but in terms of the Xbox, they've always said that, especially compared to what was around those days, you know? It was definitely a trailblazer in some senses. It was ahead of its time as well. One thing that I always laugh about now is that the original Xbox had a built-in hard drive, so you didn't need to have memory cards or anything like that.
00:18:41
Speaker
And I remember when I eventually got a PlayStation 2, I didn't realize at all about what, you know, I think I knew about memory cards, but I kind of forgot. So I was playing this game and I was like, oh, I'm done. You know, closed it down, opened it in a couple of days later. I was like, where the hell is all my progress? And I was like, oh, and then this is when I found out the pain of memory. But I'm keeping that. But the Xbox and the built-in ones, it wasn't something I never had to like, my child brain never really had to develop the part of your brain that remembers to say things on a memory card. But as well, like,
00:19:10
Speaker
With the original Xbox, it was another thing that was really kind of ahead of its time, in a way, and set a treble as with Xbox Live, which really took off with the 360. But it did start with the original Xbox, like 2003, 2003. That's when it kicked off. And that was, you know, that really did set a trend for what was to come. You know, and I was hearing something interesting that, like, when the original Xbox came out, there was still a lot of dial-up internet, you know, kind of broadband was coming in.
00:19:36
Speaker
but it was still mostly dial-up and I think people were worried. I think the Xbox was kind of built around the idea of using broadband as opposed to dial-up for your kind of online gaming. People thought this might be something that like was too niche but actually ended up being very precious because shortly after that, broadband is completely like...
00:19:51
Speaker
wiped out dial-up internet pretty much. So it was ahead of its time in many respects. Because I mean the PlayStation, not the PlayStation, I mean the PlayStation did. I think the PlayStation 2 had online play as well. It did, yes. Not to the same extent, I suppose, as like what it is nowadays. Not as well integrated. Yeah, so much better in terms of integration. But even, I think,
00:20:15
Speaker
I can't say for definite this was the first console that did it but I remember even the Dreamcast cap was revised on it I don't know whether it was because again as you were saying is it too early in the timeline let's say you know like no one's really wanting to use slow dial-up internet nobody's wanting to you know no one's wanting to use up you know the phone line yeah exactly yeah and get yelled at by your parents it's like get off the phone and it's like I can't I'm playing sonic adventure online
00:20:47
Speaker
And yeah, even though the exports kind of, as we've been saying, trundled along, I mean the success of it then probably paled completely in comparison to what was about to come for the 360.
00:21:03
Speaker
I feel as if the 360 is definitive and I'm not being like hyperbolic here and saying it is definitive of gaming but I mean it's so kind of ingrained in the culture probably as much as the PlayStation 2 was like when people talk about like here's a question for you and I'm sorry to put you on the spot but see when someone says to you Xbox what console do you think of first out of the lineup?
Technical Issues and Market Impact
00:21:29
Speaker
I think of the 360
00:21:31
Speaker
I don't think of the 360 first, probably. Yeah, no, I'm the same. I don't know what it is, maybe it's just because I honestly think in a way the 360 was almost like the, and again, maybe this is a lukewarm take, so apologies, but we do like our lukewarm takes, or sorry, I like my lukewarm takes, but
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, I feel as if the 360 is probably that generation's version of the PlayStation 2 because there was just so many games that came out for the Xbox. They came out really fast and they eventually came out really cheap towards the end of its life.
00:22:06
Speaker
I mean, it is a fantastic console, but I don't think the original Xbox got to that kind of height. The GameCube, everyone remembers the GameCube, and everyone, of course, remembers the PlayStation 2. For the original Xbox, everyone remembers it, but I don't think everyone had access to it.
00:22:26
Speaker
yeah like not everybody had that kind of accessibility to say oh i had an xbox and everything which obviously are what people must have because i mean considering hero has such a huge following and everything that is that's indicative of the console doing its job you know i was just gonna say i think what
00:22:46
Speaker
really what really helped the 360 and I think part of the reason like compared to like the original Xbox the original Xbox came out after the PS2 so the PS2 came out a year before in 2000 and you know with it and this was already like you know the PlayStation one was already wildly popular so lots of like PlayStation fans now who are waiting for the next console so it could build on that and of course the Xbox was starting out
00:23:09
Speaker
And I think most people who are Xbox gamers now or played in Xbox, it will have been, they'll either have started with the 360 or else they'll have like, the Xbox console they'll have or have had was the 360. And part of the reason was that it was the first one to come out in that seventh generation of consoles. And it came out a year before the PS3. I can't remember when the Wii came out. Was the Wii 2006 maybe as well?
00:23:35
Speaker
Yeah the Wii was 2006. I remember like just sorry in a kind of side tangent, do you remember the fuss that the Wii you know caused? Oh god yeah like the Wii was like people yeah like people having to you know like order it from Germany and that seemed to be the go-to place. I don't know why they were all in Germany.
00:23:56
Speaker
But that seemed to be the thing. Everyone was phoning up being like, oh yeah, I can't get a wee for Christmas. So we're getting a shipment of them from Germany. And it's like, why does Germany have so many of them? I don't know. I don't know whether it was like they shipped it there and then over. But that was honestly, every time I heard someone trying to get a wee in 2006, it was always from Germany. It was always that. And it was like, I don't know.
00:24:22
Speaker
was strange but you know like eventually they got their wee and yes for those of you wondering yes it was in english so it was okay i think once he got past the start up you know the going through the languages and things it was like yeah that's fine but it's old yeah looking back um that kind of leads us on nicely i think to yeah the 360 era which as you said it's just such a definitive era in the xbox's life isn't it and my life as well
00:24:52
Speaker
I'd say my gaming life certainly anyway. It's definitely the one that like when I went to university as well especially like a lot of people had Xbox 360s and that became kind of like... See this is the ironic thing because and again we will come to like the Xbox One. Like one of the famous or infamous let's just say talking points of the Xbox One was that a lot of people said oh the Xbox One's going to be like the new water cooler
00:25:18
Speaker
And I'm going to be honest, I think the Xbox T60 did far more to achieve that than the predecessor would have done. I mean, you just need to look at the actual sales. If you compare the original Xbox sold 26 million, the 360 sold 84 million units. That is a huge jump.
00:25:38
Speaker
The PS3 eventually outsold the Xbox 360 over their respective lifespans, but the PS4 was only by 2 million more. That's still a lot, but compared to how much more the PS2 outsold the original Xbox.
00:25:54
Speaker
84, 86 million is very close. I mean, the Wii was the best selling, I think, of that generation, as you said, because the hype for it was just out of control. I think it's all over 100 million. So it was by far the most successful one. But it's quite incredible how fast like the Xbox 360 like grabbed onto the gaming market and actually took like and really pushed Microsoft to become one of the dominant players, you know, in a way that like
00:26:20
Speaker
This could have been the end, the 360 could have been the end for Microsoft if it hadn't done well, but it was spectacularly and kept them in the business. Business of gaming all the same all year. Microsoft was still going regardless of the Xbox. It's like you get those images of the rich billionaires trying into the money and it's like, how would Microsoft recover?
00:26:44
Speaker
Milani, sorry, was it Milani? I've forgotten to build his wife now, but she'd be getting slightly less in the divorce now than whatever she's entitled to now. Yeah, half a PC. No, sorry, 8 gigabytes of RAM. That's it.
00:27:01
Speaker
And all the unsold 360s. Yeah. What, the red-ringed ones? Yeah, I'll throw in my one. Before I hand it over to you, I know we're both kind of well-versed in, like, this period of Xbox lore, let's say.
00:27:16
Speaker
I don't even know what you would call this period of gaming, but it's like, other than Gen 7. But like, so yeah, as we touched on there, there was the, for those of you who are old enough as well to remember, there was like the, really just the plague, wasn't it? It was an epidemic, of course, called the Red Ring of Death.
00:27:35
Speaker
and essentially what it was, was, I think, and I don't know that it's like 100% but I was watching a video talking about it and I think it was something to do with because, so you know how you've got the Xbox 360 console itself with a big wee tower and then outside of it you've got like a
00:27:53
Speaker
huge huge power pack you can knock someone out with. He had an external power pack which acted as the external source but if one of those wires, whether it was in the power pack or the console itself, whether one of them broke it would cause the whole system to just crash and you wouldn't be able to fix it.
00:28:15
Speaker
it was literally when you said red ring of death it literally meant your console was dead it was like there would literally be a flashing red light which then became kind of a meme which i think Sony and other companies capitalized on because i remember like i wasn't sure when i was jumping into the next generation i was like did i get an xbox did i get a playstation and i decided to wait it out for the playstation and this is like one more quick point but it's about brand
00:28:45
Speaker
and again I don't want to sound like a kind of like a damn capitalist but it's like about brand loyalty isn't it yeah like there's a lot of factors that came to take into consideration like i was thinking about this like how i actually got into the xbox or just the xbox in general and the reason was because initially i as i said i had the gamecube and my brother had the playstation 2 but as my brother got older he kind of like moved away from gaming so i
00:29:15
Speaker
I took up the family mantle of gaming and that is one I've held ever since. But I bought the PlayStation 3 because I heard about the Xbox and I kind of thought, oh, I'm not comfortable with, you know, bricking. So I was like, okay, I'll take it on. So I bought the PlayStation eventually. And although I like my PlayStation 3, like,
00:29:37
Speaker
Because I could play on my own, you know, PlayStation 2 games, and also it meant that I didn't have to buy a memory card, you know, it was, like, good in that sense. But the only major issue was that I didn't have many friends to play with online. A lot of the friends that I used to play with online, on, like, the PlayStation, I started to drift away from them in real life. And there was a lot of other people that I knew that had a PlayStation, but at the time, I wasn't really close to them, or, like, I wasn't really friends with them. So that was out of the question.
00:30:06
Speaker
a lot of my other friends were like, oh, you know, I've got an X-Box, I've got an, you know, the Spartacus of X-Boxes, but you know, like, they all had X-Boxes and then I thought, okay, I'll get an X-Box then, you know, because all my friends now are on the X-Box and I think eventually I got lucky because my parents kept asking me, is it not the same console and it's like,
00:30:27
Speaker
it's not the same mom and yeah i think on christmas i ended up getting the xbox a leak which was like a model above the original one so it's basically the same console but it ran better and it was it had a dashing coat of black instead of white on it which was very nice and sorry i'll flip it back to you now
00:30:46
Speaker
No, no, I was actually interested because like, well, we might as well talk about technical issues since we've kind of gone into it. And it was a big part of the 360, but was the rendering of death and those technical issues, was that the reason that you kind of, was that a real reason that you decided to wait then really? Like, because obviously I know you didn't have an original Xbox. And so were you tempted to get a 360? And then it was because of these technical issues that made you be like, no, I'll stick with the PlayStation brand.
00:31:14
Speaker
Yeah, I suppose it was kind of that brand familiarity, you know, it's like there's a brand that I was familiar with because I had the PlayStation 2, you know, so it seemed like a logical step to, you know, like to not evolve. That's very dramatic, but like,
00:31:31
Speaker
to go from the PlayStation 2 which was more of a family console, well and I say family I mean my brother and I, like my brother would use it and then eventually as I said he grew out of gaming so I took it on I played the PlayStation 2 and then I thought I might as well play the PlayStation 3 or sorry buy that when it comes out which meant kind of waiting longer which was a bit like
00:31:53
Speaker
It was annoying, because you know what kids are like. I was very impatient, I wanted to get it as soon as possible. And you know, I convinced myself that all the Xbox would be deodorant and everything, it wouldn't be the same, I have no one to play with. Funny enough actually,
00:32:11
Speaker
technically the xbox c60 was the first gaming console that i had a proper online game with someone on i mean technically it was the playstation but yeah i wouldn't include playstation home as him yeah i wouldn't include that as gaming or like an experience but the first like proper game that i played with a friend which
00:32:33
Speaker
And I'll give you a laugh here because, you know, like everyone nowadays takes it for granted that you switch on the console, it connects to the Wi-Fi or your ethernet cable. And that's it. You know, like that's it. You're ready to go. I had the Xbox Elite, so that was a step before the
00:32:52
Speaker
There was another, I think it was the Xbox S we said. Yeah. It was like the, it was as you were saying to me before we started, it's like more of an angular console. Yeah, it was like shiny plastic and that. I think that had like a built-in wireless receiver. So if you wanted one, like if you wanted to play your game wirelessly, you had to buy like a jungle.
00:33:14
Speaker
and then connect it to the back of the console, and then that would connect. I didn't have one of those. So what I did instead was I had to connect my Xbox to my laptop, and I had to bridge the connections. You had to go into your settings. It was such a faff, because I had an ethernet cable from my laptop to my Xbox 360, connected them together. You had to go in, you had to bridge a connection. It was all a faff, but it worked.
00:33:43
Speaker
It genuinely did work, but it was so slow.
00:33:48
Speaker
for what it was it was just such a faff but that's the way I played it honestly and some people might be wondering oh why didn't you plug it into your modem the reason being like I was upstairs in my room and the modem was like down in the living room yeah so there was no way I would be able to get a cable long enough plus I don't think my parents would have approved like having a huge cable going through the house like so yeah that that was my fun experience
00:34:14
Speaker
Yeah. No, it is fun thinking about that with the dongle and everything. Well, I find that going back to the red ring of death, just as a last sort of thing, what I find fascinating about that, and actually this is, I can speak to somebody who's originally on Xbox 360, suffered the red ring of death, died. So I also, yeah, I also have the Elite now because my original one died, got the dreaded red ring of death a few years after I got him broke, 2008 maybe or something.
00:34:38
Speaker
in 2009 and so I got the elite as well and but Wi-Fi fascinating is this is a thing that could have killed like this could have a smaller company this would have been the death knell I'm almost certain like a small company making this they would never have recovered from this so Microsoft had to make the decision of how they were going to handle this and
00:34:56
Speaker
What they decided to do is they decided to throw money at it, and it cost apparently $1.15 billion to fix this issue. So what they did was they extended warranties on the consoles and at the cost. It was an expensive decision, but one in the long run that actually probably helped save Xbox, because this was a huge thing that was turning people off, getting a 360. You know, right, you can understandably so, like it was a big thing. As somebody who suffered, I can
00:35:21
Speaker
I can say it was a pretty unpleasant thing. In the day, being a big company, they could absorb this and they had the capital to throw at it to actually help it. That's, again, another thing of prolonging the Xbox brand. It is just a fascinating issue regarding the 360 and everything. Going into the 360 and jump back to looking at its release. Obviously, you said you were aware when it came out, the 360 and everything,
00:35:49
Speaker
And you know said you were like, you know, obviously you were a place you were a Nintendo at a PlayStation game at that point as opposed to an Xbox one Yeah, and me on the other hand I was I was a committed Xbox gamer by this point and I was very very excited about the 360 and so it came out because it came out in December of 2005 and I was really really keen to get one really desperate to get one But you know like any new console coming out It's always were very difficult to get your hands on a copy
00:36:14
Speaker
like not not quite as bad as it is now but even back in the back in the before times but pre-covid it was still difficult sometimes to get your hands on it on a new console and i remember like i really wanted one for christmas i remember like my parents kind of preparing me for the fact that i probably i wouldn't likely get one you know for christmas because it was just like you would hear like there was a shop handsome in stock and by the time you got there they'd all be gone you know in the space of an hour or something because everybody was desperately trying to snap one up
00:36:40
Speaker
And so, like, I was kind of prepared. I was kind of prepared. And this is going to make me sound like the most privileged, like, little shit that you want to just clap around the head. But here we go anyway. But like, so I'd kind of prepared myself. I wasn't going to get one for Christmas. I was surprised. I was surprised the mature decision, which I'm still amazed that 13 year old me was able to like be that mature and reasonable about it.
00:37:01
Speaker
I was like, oh, you know, I won't get one, but I'll get one in, you know, after New Year, hopefully. So what I did instead is I picked out some like games from my original Xbox that I was like, I'll take those and that'll be something to do at least at Christmas. And so I woke up Christmas morning, 2005, went into my stocking and none of those Xbox games were there. And I was just, I remember being in the most foul mood ever. I was like, what the hell am I going to do at Christmas now? Like, you know, this little privilege, like just whiny shit, just being like, wow, Christmas is ruined. I was sulking upstairs and like,
00:37:31
Speaker
And I was like, well Adam, just come downstairs. And I was like, no, I'm not coming down. Christmas is cancelled. Christmas is ruined. And eventually they managed to coax me downstairs. And I came downstairs. And what did I find wrapped up downstairs? My next box 360. I was just like, oh Adam, you're your own worst enemy at points. So I did manage to actually get one not long after release. And honestly, looking at the 360, the 360 is my favorite console.
00:37:54
Speaker
of all time, but I don't think it will. And again, I accept, you know, like, I know there's been other consoles before, but I've never had, I never had those ones. So I have to go with what I had. It's my favorite console, just because the games I played on it, the fun I had with them, because it lasted so long. So the original Xbox was only really from 2001 to 2005.
00:38:11
Speaker
And this one was 2005 to 2013. So it was a good long like what's that eight years? Yeah, that's a good long time And that was not a formative year for me through like,
Game Lineup and Exclusivity
00:38:20
Speaker
you know through kind of end of my childhood through teenage years everything so yeah again going into kind of adulthood and
00:38:27
Speaker
But what's interesting is when they released the 360, Microsoft were actually very smart and they very smartly positioned themselves with it. So the selling points for the 360 were, number one, it was coming out a year earlier. It was the first console out of the gates, which is always an advantage in these situations. There's lots of things for the PS2, but that was one of the things that it came out so early compared to its competitors. As well, it was a lot cheaper. The 360 was a lot cheaper than the PS3.
00:38:53
Speaker
and something that Microsoft would forget when the next console came out. Also, the console was built around Xbox Live, which had been growing in popularity and was a really big selling point. People were really enjoying from the original Xbox, and they just took that on. Well, compared to the PS3, which I find interesting, the PS3, it was more expensive, but it did have some really good features. It had Blu-ray, had integrated Wi-Fi that we were just talking about. You had to get a dongle. Actually, my Wi-Fi dongle
00:39:20
Speaker
over my 360, the PS3 had it integrated. You could argue the PS3 looks better. It's one of these points. I prefer the Xbox 360, but I can understand if people think the PS3 looks better. But looking at that, what do you think of Microsoft's strategy? What do you think of that as a way of targeting your console, making it a bit cheaper? Perhaps not having maybe the most up-to-date features like Blu-ray or integrated Wi-Fi, but going cheaper. Do you think it's a good idea?
00:39:46
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's a trying and tested thing, is it not? Like, I know, maybe not on the cheap side, but I know, like, Nintendo have done that before, where they've, like, stripped away. Like, you know, they don't have 4K ultra graphics or things like that, but they invest it in other things. And, I mean, don't get me wrong, there's, like, whole pros and cons with that and everything. Or Joy-Cons. Hey! Joke of the night, guys. Write that down.
00:40:11
Speaker
this is the last joke I'm gonna say I'm gonna get really serious but it's funny like when you were saying that like the amount of you know the amount of features that the PlayStation had because one of the other ones that the PlayStation had
00:40:27
Speaker
over the xbox and i think this might have been one of the other reasons that i preferred it over the xbox because a i'm scottish so i'm very fond of my money and the fact that the playstation online service was free whereas the xbox wasn't the xbox had the xbox gold membership which you had to buy every month or you could buy it like as i think it's a one-off like for a year which was about
00:40:53
Speaker
£40 to £50. Which, don't get me wrong, was a lot of money. It's still a lot of money, but back then, you know, it was like, how the hell am I going to get £50? You know, you have to get like a really long paper run or something. Yeah, just save up all those coins.
00:41:08
Speaker
But there is like a case to be kind of argued there because even if you didn't have access to that, one of the major things I think was really good about the Xbox, and I know the PlayStation technically had this as well, but I mean the fact it was kind of considered like a LAN console, and by LAN I mean like, you know, you could get friends over, you could play Halo split screen, you know, you could play with them online while you were sitting beside them.
00:41:34
Speaker
You know, I mean, technically in some games you can do that now, but I'll get to that, trust me. It's like, trust me, we will get there. But yeah, it was just like, again, I'm going back to this idea of, it's a water cooler console, and it really is.
00:41:49
Speaker
It was this console, especially for uni students as well, because that's a key demographic to target. I wouldn't say overly cheap, but it was a cheaper alternative to have. I remember 9 out of 10 people I met had an Xbox at some point.
00:42:05
Speaker
I always remember being introduced to, and you're gonna be sick of me bringing this up, but Castle Crashers was on the Xbox C60, and the first time I came across that game was in University. It was one of my friends, or plant mates at the time, so you can blame him for me constantly bringing it up now. And we've played other games, like kind of just indie games, silly games.
00:42:27
Speaker
Call of Duty as well, I think Call of Duty helped a lot as well, even though like it was cross-platform, it kind of gave it an advantage to kind of hold itself upon. And then of course, I think one of the things that we need to address is the first party exclusives, which I think was probably the strongest in this era of exclusives. Oh yeah. Well I mean if you just, I was looking through the list of
00:42:49
Speaker
of some of these ones and the exclusives but also as well like a lot of franchises actually started off on the 360 their first release was on the 360 and it's an impressive list Mass Effect, Saints Row, BioShock these all like I mean some of these ones were also on PC with Windows and stuff but the first console they came onto was the 360 and if you go through like the list of exclusives you've got Halo 3, Halo Reach
00:43:15
Speaker
Gears of War games, Forza games, Crackdown, Alan Wake, Fable 2, Castle Crashes, as you said, there was a lot of really strong exclusive titles, or at least ones that started off as exclusives, that obviously were released a few years down the line on other consoles.
00:43:32
Speaker
And they varied over quite a range of genres, which was good. And there was a real strength of the console, I totally agree. As I said, I think this is why sexy is my favorite, because I just think of all the great games that I played on it and stuff, whether they be exclusives or whether they were ones that were also released on other titles.
00:43:49
Speaker
Microsoft were good as well at making deals with other companies, for instance, with Rockstar. So after GTA IV was released on PS3 and other consoles at the same time as the 360, but what Microsoft managed to do was they managed to get the exclusive first dibs on the DLC. So you had the Lost and Damned and the Bald and Gay Tony, which were the two big expansion packs to GTA IV, and they were exclusive to the 360. It might not have been as long as a year.
00:44:16
Speaker
But it was a good amount of time to begin with. You could only play them on 360 to start with, which was a big selling point as well for 360. And I think all these things helped explain why the console sold so well, you know, along with it coming out a year early and everything. Do you have any thoughts? Obviously, I know Castle Crashes is a very fun, fun one for you. But do you have any others from the games from the 360 lineup that you look back from beyond?
00:44:36
Speaker
I mean, other than obviously Halo, which I know I've kind of made this clear in past episodes, where Halo 3 was the very first Halo game I ever played, and while I loved it, and it was my very first time playing a video game online properly with my friends,
00:44:53
Speaker
I had no idea what was going on in the story, but considering the games that came out at the time, so there was like Halo 3, Modern Warfare 2, though that was actually, Modern Warfare 2 was the first, or I can't remember what the other game was. In fact, no, I don't think I did have another game for it. I think Modern Warfare 2 was the very first game I got for the 360. Well, it's nice up until you play the whole game in one sitting and then you're like, oh shit, what now?
00:45:22
Speaker
I guess I've got to go through and play it again so you play it again and you're like okay what do I do now shoot I can't get a game it's boxing day it's like that was my very first game I think but yeah no it was it was my first game as like you know it kind of progressed and everything and I started picking up more and more games and now like I'm looking at my cupboard just now and it's like behind the door it's like a kind of small treasure of like
00:45:48
Speaker
just so many Xbox 360 games like all the college duties and things like that but one of the ones which I actually never expected to like as much was the Years of War franchise so I'll give you an example of like how I got into it because this was like genuinely like you know when you get those moments in your life where it like your life could split off into two separate directions like in a very
00:46:16
Speaker
Micro, micro, micro scale. This is what happened to me. I was in a, I think it was game with my flatmate and we were looking at the, you know, the pre-owned games. I was looking through them and I picked up Final Fantasy at one point. I don't know why. I saw it and everyone at the time was like, oh, it's a great game, play it. Sorry, that's not to say that all, you know, Final Fantasy fans sound like this.
00:46:43
Speaker
Yes, yeah, I retract the shade, I apologize. Don't worry, I'll put out a YouTube apology video later, I'll just be like, I don't want to make this video, but you know, I'm sorry. Final fantasy nerds made me.
00:47:00
Speaker
But yeah, I was about to get it and then my friend was like, why don't you get Gears of War? Or no, he didn't say why don't you get it? But he was like, oh, that's a really good game. And I looked at it and at the time I was going through like a real kick of getting through like FPS games. So I used to play like a lot of Halo, Call of Duty, they were my main ones. And I was like, you know what?
00:47:20
Speaker
I'll try it. And I think the cherry on top of the cake was when I gave over. So it was like a two for one kind of deal. I gave Gears of War one and two over and the person behind the counter was like, oh by the way we've got a limited edition version of this in the back, do you want it? And I'm like, yes, okay.
00:47:41
Speaker
And, yeah, that kind of just sweetened the deal. I'm like, yes! I'm getting this, like, you know, limited edition series of, um... I think it was the second game? And, yeah, a playthrough of the first one. The way I like to describe the Gears of War franchise is, like, the Alien series, where the first one's more like a horror thriller, the second one's more like a action film, which, I have to admit, I got quite emotional at Gears of War 2, but I never expected to. Did you feel the same?
00:48:08
Speaker
Well, I think it's because the first game is so lacking in any kind of emotion. Actually, it's more of a gut punch in the second one. In comparison to other things, it's not actually that emotional, but because the first one lacked any kind of emotion. The second one, you're like, oh my god, it does kind of gut punch you.
00:48:30
Speaker
But I'm thinking the exact scene that I'm talking about here, and I can imagine you just saying, I think that's alright, I guess. Come on, man up a bit. Come on, chin chin. Come on, bury it down.
00:48:44
Speaker
Time for emotions! Just like a real space man, come on! Chup chup! That kind of got me into the Gears of War franchise which of course was exclusive to Xbox and as I said previously with the release of Rareware going to Xbox and the infamous 2008 release of Nuts and Bolts which
00:49:09
Speaker
Again, I know this is a look-warm opinion, but if it was any other game, it would be a fun game. A fun vehicle builder. But the fact they put Banjo-Kazooie in front of it, it's like, what the hell? And that was rare, not even rare, but Microsoft were pushing this hard at the time. Because I remember being in, well, a mutual shopping centre that you and I have both frequented, let's just say, and looking up and there were all these billboards saying, like, guess who's back? And you know, it was like the horrible, like, blocky
00:49:44
Speaker
before we move on to, you know, the Xbox One and that and for me, can we talk about the gimmick years? Yeah. Well, I think before we tap into the gimmick years, I'm going to get a few more positives. Yeah. I think as we're talking about how the original Xbox was a trailblazer, like the Xbox 360 carried on many of that and like the way it pushed live and Xbox is now a standard for, you know, like, you know,
00:50:01
Speaker
version a bunch of those like oh
00:50:10
Speaker
Sony copied it and for their M, I don't know what's it called, but whatever their online functions are and stuff like, but looking at things like party chat, achievements, you know, the full messaging features, friends list, gamer tags, you know, making the console like a media center thing because the 360 is one of the first ones that you could like watch Netflix, rather streaming services on. These are things that are industry standards now, unless you're Nintendo, but
00:50:34
Speaker
Other companies have adopted these ones.
Kinect and Motion Control
00:50:38
Speaker
It didn't really set a trend. Now, of course, with all that being said, as you have subtly hinted at, there is one elephant in the corner when it comes to this bit, and that being the Kinect. Did you ever get a Kinect for your 360?
00:50:53
Speaker
I did not know. I eventually got one second hand for the Xbox One, but I never, never, never, never picked it up for the Xbox 360. Because I don't even know why. It just never interested me. Like I thought it was a
00:51:09
Speaker
cool idea but when you saw the games coming out for it and everyone going this is more of a gimmick because the reason I'm calling it the gimmick years right that is maybe I'm being a bit too harsh at this but at the time you have to kind of think this was when the Wii came out
00:51:24
Speaker
Now the Nintendo Wii was a console that, as fun as it was, it had a lot of gimmicks. I think that was the only thing keeping the Wii afloat for half of it. I mean remember obviously their first party games and everything like Mario and so forth was the other half, but it was the fact you had motion controls with the Wii that whenever you played a game you had to shake your arm as if you knew you were running after a bus and it wouldn't stop. So you had to like shake your arm and be like, come back! But...
00:51:50
Speaker
With the other consoles, I don't know why, because I thought they would have been sitting relatively comfortable, you know, without the gimmicks. What eventually happened was the PlayStation did their own version called the PlayStation Move, where it was essentially just a wee moat with a ball.
00:52:07
Speaker
on the end of it. I don't know, I don't know why, but that ended up, and I've spoken about this before in the least saltiest way possible, but that caused a lot of other games to kind of be cut back. And one of the examples which I bring up a lot, and I think I brought it up in our T-posing playthrough of Heavy Rain, was the fact that Heavy Rain, which whether you love it or hate it, that was a game that had DLC planned for the longest time. And they got out one chapter
00:52:37
Speaker
And then after that, they were like, oh, by the way, we're not doing any more because we're working on the PlayStation move. And I'm going to be honest, like, I mean, between that and the fact the deadly premonition, which, although it's one of our favorite games, got a PlayStation move, like equivalent.
00:52:54
Speaker
I don't know if it was worth it. Like if anybody listening, you know, if you think the PlayStation move was worth it, please feel free to let us know what you think. Yeah, that was their version. That was Sony's version. They had 6-axis as well, if you remember. The controllers were that 6-axis thing, you could tilt them. I've been playing Killzone 3 recently on my PS3, and actually they're going to annoy me every so often. I have to stop to twist the controller around when a guy needs to turn a valve.
00:53:20
Speaker
It's just one of these things that they can point a bit heavier into the motion. I mean, nothing like the Kinect, but, you know, it was more kind of like a smaller scale, but they went a bit heavier into the kind of motion control thing. Because I think they carried that over to the PlayStation 4, and I don't know whether my, like, control was broken.
00:53:36
Speaker
or because sometimes I'll flick it to the side and it's like I'll be playing code or something on it and then all of a sudden my entire body in the game just twists round or it twists up and I'm like, what is going on here? Stop! It's like, cease! Desist! No!
00:53:52
Speaker
and then I end up shooting the air and getting killed. Oh, it's just a nightmare. I don't know if it's that or just a faulty controller. But yeah, we've put this off for long enough. Looking back to the Xbox Connect. Oh, they've really... This is kind of why I'm a little bit salty about what happened to Rare, as they're known now, because they were primarily
00:54:18
Speaker
ripped away from their, like, primary games. So, you know, like, they did Banjo-Kazooie, they did the Rare Replay saga and everything. Or Collection, not saga, but they did that. But then they did a lot of, like, Xbox Connect games. And I... Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wasn't many notable ones, other than the Star Wars one. We know that's an instant classic, but... You say that. The best-selling game on the Xbox 360 is Connect Adventures. Really?
00:54:48
Speaker
yep 24 I think it's actually one of the best selling games of all time 24 because that was the it's like Wii Sports you know it was the game that came with the Kinect right you know and so if you bought a Kinect you've got this one I think that this one had like the raft game you know and things like that do you know the Kinect is a funny thing because I think it might have been a bit younger when it so Kinect came out in like 2010 I think
00:55:12
Speaker
2009-2010 when the Kinect came out. So I was 18 when it came out. I think if I had been a few years younger, I think I'd have been totally all over this because I remember how excited I was for the Wii.
00:55:27
Speaker
And maybe as well like I kind of felt like I'd like you know like spent myself out a little bit getting hyped of emotion controls with the weed I didn't really have you know enough to sustain into the connect but at the age I was maybe I don't think maybe you felt the same age you were as well like it just felt like a gimmicky thing that you were like you know I want I just want to play call I want to play cause
00:55:46
Speaker
I don't want to play like a raft game, you know, now and stuff. And I don't want to do Star Wars dancing. The fool that I was, I mean, who wouldn't want to play that? So, yeah, it was just a game. But it was a game that you think that they really stuck to. They really went all in on. And I think they I really thought this would be a it would be a big thing. It would be like the future. I think something like maybe what VR is now. I think they thought this would be one of these things.
00:56:11
Speaker
How wrong are we with? Because it's funny, because I think we might have spoke about this in the deadly premonition episode of Chatsunami. I can't remember if we touched on it, but there was a game that the same developer created called D4, Dark Dreams Don't Die. And that was, for the majority, that was supposed to be exclusively for The Connect.
00:56:36
Speaker
but they also had an option where you could use the controller. I think my favourite moment was when I was at your house before. I think you left the room and I was using the controller but because I was sitting in front of the Kinect I think I stretched my arm. I saw this bar at the bottom of the screen slowly loading and it was like
00:57:01
Speaker
oh you know like oh slowly slowly do you want to use the connect and it's like wait no no no no no no no no no no no no i don't want to use the connect it's like are you sure you don't want to get i'm like no no no no no no no no no oh god
00:57:20
Speaker
And eventually they just made you use the connectors. It's like, oh god. It worked trying just for how awkward and awkward it is. That's one thing that you should stream. You should get a full camera and people can watch you play D4. Connect. Yeah, oh god. I wouldn't even try it. Never.
00:57:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's an interesting game, but not worth buying the Kinect for it. Definitely not worth buying the Kinect. Which, the Kinect is good, but it's not worth it. It's not good, don't lie.
00:57:56
Speaker
The Kinect never was good. It was a gimmicky thing. I mean, unless maybe somebody liked it. Sorry if you really liked the Kinect. Like, for kids and things, I can understand why people would... But I agree because I was also into the Xbox phase and everything. Yeah. So...
00:58:15
Speaker
Yeah. It's interesting because obviously the Xbox 60 was your first Xbox console, and as much as we've just been crapping on Kinect and technical issues, there must have been something about that, because you obviously then decided to get the Xbox One, so the 360 must have made enough positive impact on you that you wanted to stay with the Xbox brand. Do you know what it was about the 360 that made you want to keep Xbox consoles?
00:58:39
Speaker
honestly I think it was just because my friends were on it because as I said before I had friends that were on the PlayStation but at the same time I didn't really speak to them very much like as I went through school you know like you know how that is like you make friends with people in school then you drift away and you go to different groups and things and although I still kind of kept in touch with them we didn't
00:59:01
Speaker
play as much as we used to whereas I was making friends with other people who had like the Xbox and I kind of want to be in this world kind of thing you know because again you know third time you know get your bingo card ready but as it's like
00:59:17
Speaker
You know, it was like the water cooler of the playground at the time. Or not playground, but you know what I mean, like in high school, it was that kind of... Yeah. And you know, you could be like, oh, did you play that No Russian Mission and, you know, Modern Warfare 2, did you do this, did you do that? And the fact that the Xbox games, like the pre-owned ones, were ridiculously cheap at the time,
00:59:39
Speaker
you know you could get them in deals and things and you know they had like the avatars in which I have to admit the avatars weren't a seven point I don't know why I brought that up but you know like it wasn't I have to admit the Xbox C60 on the surface like if you look at it kind of objectively compared to let's say like the PlayStation 3 it wasn't the best console like in terms of you know it needed the dongle it had you know the
01:00:08
Speaker
had the Red Ring issues, you had to pay for online services, but at the same time it made such an impact with the games that came out for it, you know, whether it be Halo, whether it be Gears of War. It was just amazing. Even despite those, as you said, if it was a smaller company, the Red Ring of Death would have killed that console, yet the snow kept going on and on and they've turned it into what it is today and oh boy,
01:00:35
Speaker
should we move on to the xbox one or we might we might as well we might as well at least with xbox one we can get the bad stuff out of the way to begin with yeah or is there any like closing points you want to say i mean all i'd say all i'd say about is it remains my favorite console because i like if i was making a list of my favorite games
01:00:53
Speaker
nearly all of them are from the three I played on the 360 you can get them on other consoles but I played them on the 360 you know things like Bioshock Infinite, Telltale's The Walking Dead, Grand Theft Auto 4, Arkham Asylum all these games are the ones that I play on here it really was
01:01:09
Speaker
As much as I started off on the original Xbox and stuff, I think I really came of age in gaming terms on the 360, and I think it really set a trend for games that I enjoy. One of the first-person shooters are probably my favorite genre of game, and that was on the original Xbox, and then the 360 kind of specialized in. It was a popular console for that type of game, and I think if I had got another console, perhaps I wouldn't have been so into these games.
01:01:38
Speaker
you know if I got Nintendo one I might be more into platformers and things so I think just the impact they had on me in gaming terms you know I don't want to like oversell this and you know say there's massive impact out of it but in gaming terms like it had a big impact on me and just when I think of like my favorite members in gaming so many of them revolve around the 360 you know whether that be me playing on my own playing split screen playing on the couch or somebody else playing online
01:02:01
Speaker
I just think it was a great console. No, I completely agree with you there. I mean, as I say, it's like at university, my memories, or, you know, obviously I had other memories at university beyond, you know, playing an Xbox, but even, you know,
Xbox One's Rocky Launch
01:02:15
Speaker
like being able to break, because inherently, and I know this is ironic considering we're, you know, streaming this out to Twitch,
01:02:22
Speaker
but like back then I was a really shy person so you know it was really hard to you know break down that kind of barrier and be like hi I'm sad to you know I want to do this and that and being able to play games with people was like a big help for me but I always remember so this is kind of like a funny story to close off on until we get to the Xbox One but a funny story so I remember my brother gave me a lift up to university one time and
01:02:49
Speaker
it basically had like all my clothes in the back of the car so I was really nervous about something happening to my Xbox I put it like between my clothes you know like in the back seat so I was like right okay that means I'm not gonna you know it's not gonna like shift from side to side it's not gonna bang into anything and as soon as we arrived what does my brother do the very very first thing he does he lifts up the clothes and the Xbox falls out of the clothes and hits the ground
01:03:19
Speaker
oh jeez now the good thing is the xbox actually survived but see if you pick it up now there is like a rattling inside which is not healthy but the ironic thing is he also for like one of his jobs he borrowed my playstation 3 and he brought it back and i was like why is there a big chunk out the back of it and there's like a huge crack at the back of it so yeah i don't i don't trust him with my consoles anymore
01:03:49
Speaker
Stay away. Like, they both still work, but yeah, I think they're on life support, if I'm honest. Speaking of life support, will they go into the Xbox One? Might as well, might as well. Oh, the Xbox One. Where do we begin with the Xbox One? I'm going to be honest. The Xbox One, while I appreciate it now and I am going to come on to a positive point, it was in a dismal opening, wasn't it? They just, they just,
01:04:17
Speaker
It's so funny because it did such a good job marketing the 360 and promoting it and actually making it this unique product that people wanted to get. But they did such a horrible job with the Xbox One. Now apparently it was a completely different team who did it to the Xbox One to the 360.
01:04:35
Speaker
But it's mind-boggling how badly they bungled it and how they didn't remember any of the core things that made the 360 so popular alone. I think the main thing initially where they shot themselves in the foot was they had said that this was going to be a console that was more... in fact it was a marketing, wasn't it?
01:04:54
Speaker
yeah it was more the marketing that killed this because i've said this before about the 360 they are saying and again get your bingo cards ready that the 360 was like the water cooler console this is how they marketed the xbox one they said oh this is the water cooler console and you're like
01:05:12
Speaker
They marketed it as a media centre. You could play movies, you could talk to people on Skype. You could do all these things and it's like, okay, but where's the games? What games are we talking about here? Oh, by the way, it comes with a Kinect. What about the games?
01:05:34
Speaker
And also, you're like, oh Jesus, when will this end? Okay, what's the other thing? It has to be connected all the time to the internet. And everyone, I think, as a consensus, just said, no, that's stupid. And they, like, this was an official statement until the person stepped down a couple of weeks later. Yeah. But he turned round and he said, well, we've got, you know, a console for people who don't want to be online all the time. It's called the 360.
01:06:00
Speaker
and everybody lost it because the other thing as well was something to do with you couldn't play pre-owned games it's like you had to buy the games and you couldn't it's so much so that there's like a famous advert from I think it was Sony at the time and they showed you how to play like pre-owned games on their console and basically it was like two of the CEOs like standing there and it was like step on
01:06:25
Speaker
and they just hand the game console over and it's like, that's it. That's how you play pre-owned games and that's how you trade games. A lot of fun at Microsoft's expense. They just
01:06:41
Speaker
I'm just surprised that there was just one thing after the other. Somebody greenlit in the background and said, this is the way I want the company to go forward. We want it more as a multimedia centre and always online. It was baffling, wasn't it? In a way, if you look at some of the ways the 360 was going, I said that the 360 was the first to have streaming. You could stream things on it and everything.
01:07:07
Speaker
And it was a code of media center, quote unquote, like it kind of makes sense the way they pushed it from that perspective. You look at it in isolation, but they kind of they really like downplayed the games console part part of the whole thing. The thing as well was the price. It was it was one hundred dollars. It was one hundred dollars. I don't know what that works out in pounds, but more than the PlayStation 4, which is the reverse of the 360 was cheaper and which is one of the reasons why it sold so well, cheaper than the one. And a big reason why it was more expensive was because, as you said, it became bundled in with the Kinect.
01:07:37
Speaker
So they connected a pricey peripheral to make. So from a business perspective, you're like, well, they cost us more money to make it, so we'll offload that onto consumer. So business makes sense, but people were not happy with that, to be such a jump as well. And yeah, it was a disaster in basically every respect, pretty much. And I still bought one, so that was how in deep I was.
01:07:59
Speaker
into the Xbox cult by that point. Do you know, funny enough, I eventually bought one as well but I didn't buy it until they backtracked and said because I was kind of holding off and I was genuinely thinking, do I jump shipping by a PS4? Which don't get me wrong, I bought one last year, I think.
01:08:16
Speaker
So I bought my PlayStation 4 really, really late. But for the 360, I wish, for the Xbox One, I bought a, like, maybe... I can't even remember how long it was after it was released, but eventually that's what they said, that they didn't have to buy it with the Kinect. Although I went out and bought a Kinect anyway, which... Just to cover the bases.
01:08:39
Speaker
Yeah, because I really wanted to see what it was like, and I'm not gonna lie, I wasn't impressed with what I saw. Because this was the thing, I saw a lot of people, you know, it's the typical, like, you know, good-looking models or actors who come in and they're like, Xbox, turn on! And, you know, the Xbox turns on. Xbox, turn off! And the Xbox turns off. Right, the Xbox turns on, but for me, it would not turn off, so I was having, like, a Braveheart competition with it, judging yelling at it.
01:09:09
Speaker
and just indescribable scots, like just saying, X-Box, you got bought a bag. It's like, get off. It's like, I'm sorry, I don't understand. It's like, oh, fuck it off. How could you? So I didn't get a lot out of it. Like I could save a couple of like kills on like Call of Duty or something, say like X-Box record that, which I thought was neat. I'll give you that, I thought that was neat. But other than that,
01:09:36
Speaker
I don't think I was missing much, like with the connect. I know, it's caused me more problems. I mean, I bought a launch, you know, one that had the connect bundled into it and it caused me more problems than it caused. The only thing worth it was to watch you play D4.
01:09:54
Speaker
I think it's about the other thing. Got my money's worth for that. That is true. I tried playing it. That didn't work. Lesson learned. I looked like an absolute idiot. I'm waving my arms going no.
01:10:13
Speaker
I could do it, coach. Put me in. Oh, God. Right, yeah. It was just... That was crazy. Can I inject a note of positivity into this? I mean, do you want to say anything else about the launch? Oh, no. I think that's more or less that. I'll just say a quick little note of positivity, then, handed it back to you. But I think, in retrospect, if this was a good thing, that it failed so badly. I don't know if you want me to elaborate, or if you have anything else to say, I can add to that.
01:10:40
Speaker
because I well I think because it failed so badly Microsoft were immediately put into like you know they were immediately in like a second whatever but I don't even know how I don't know how this fared against the Wii U in fairness but I'll just I'll compare it to Sony for now just now they were immediately in second place a distant second place to Sony and so to try and gain ground
01:11:01
Speaker
Microsoft had to become very, very pro consumer and very consumer friendly. And I think actually being an Xbox owner, you actually got a lot of benefits from their like their fumbles and stumbles in the beginning. And, you know, I'm sure we'll come on to things like game pass and backwards compatibility and things. But a lot of these things that I don't know if they would have done or pushed as much if the Xbox wanted launched successfully. That's a good point, though.
01:11:26
Speaker
Do you know what that actually reminds me of, and I can't believe I'm making this as like a positive parallel, but you know Battlefront 2? Yeah. The remake. So that's kind of in a similar boat where it was a game that was definitely anti-consumer, oh it's, you know, trust us, we're doing this for you, kind of thing. Yeah. It's for your own good that we're, you know, giving you all these like stupid, you know, the passes and the loot boxes, just idiots.
01:11:56
Speaker
Yeah, eventually because there was such a harsh backlash that they had to reverse and U-turn their decisions, which is absolutely brilliant for us, for example, because they ended up making a game that, after that, I'm not a big fan of it, but a lot of people got enjoyment out of it. It's better than
01:12:15
Speaker
what it could have been at the beginning, and it's the same for the Xbox One. It could have been far worse than what it was at the beginning, but I think the other thing that hurt it though was, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I can remember off the top of my head, but there weren't as many exclusives were there.
01:12:35
Speaker
No, this is the way they turned away from that as part of their business model. And we talked about all the kind of exclusives that were on the 360. And the original Xbox had a strong list as well. But yeah, this was something they just didn't show an interest in. And it's something that it was one part of the original strategy that's kind of been kept on. I mean, it's starting to change now, because like Microsoft have bought over Bethesda. So Bethesda's new Starfield is going to be an Xbox slash PC exclusive.
01:13:05
Speaker
So it might be coming back a bit, but it was something that they just decided that they didn't want to do anymore, which is an interesting idea. In a way, I can see why it's a turn-off to people, but on the other hand as well, I guess it really depends. I've never been particularly bothered by it because I've always been able to play the games I want to play on Xbox. So it's really a subjective thing, but I can totally see why it's a turn-off to people. It was a strange decision.
01:13:33
Speaker
Because I mean, the PlayStation 4, let's face it, whether you're a fan of the PlayStation or not, they definitely stole the show in the last generation. They completely... I think that was one of their marketing tools, where they're like, even today, they're like, the best selling console in the UK and things. And it's not hard to see why, pretty much.
01:13:54
Speaker
because it wasn't like the days of the 360 where everybody like the nostalgia couldn't maintain all of the kind of bull you know what that Microsoft were trying to peddle at the time like that level of nostalgia and kind of favor for the 360 could not sustain them from going to a relatively you know
01:14:19
Speaker
like you know like a relatively pro consumer business model to severely anti-business for the sake of as we were saying to become like something it wasn't you know like i know you said like the 360 was going to become more of like a entertainment system which don't get me wrong that has that has still continued to this day because like you can still hire movies on xbox you can
01:14:43
Speaker
Caddy Xbox is my main thing, that's what I watch, like, you know, YouTube or Netflix on and stuff. Like, it is the media center in my home zone. I mean, the only thing you can't do now is you escape because they stopped supporting it. So there you go. The other thing they did as well, this is a slight tangent, but I remember they had, like, a thing called Hero Channel, I think it was called. Oh yeah? And yeah, did not last long.
01:15:09
Speaker
Because I tried getting on it and every time, like, I had a code that you could put into it, but every time I tried to get on it, it was like, oh, hero channels down. And I was never able to get into it. So I don't know whether that was, like, something that they got rid of. Because I think I got mine in 2016, I want to say. Like, my Xbox console.
01:15:29
Speaker
Oh, so you're a few years later, isn't it? Yeah, I got it. I didn't get it on release because of the negative backlash, but then again, like... See, this is the thing about consoles, isn't it? When you're moving from generation to generation, there's that transitional period where you think, I don't want to go straight away into the next gen. I don't like what we're doing just now, in a way. Well, if you forget the whole shortage thing going on with both Xbox and PlayStation, but... Yeah.
01:15:58
Speaker
There is that period or the fact that you can still play these games, or you can play all the games you want. It doesn't really matter, does it? Yeah. No, it's true. You know, it's like you can still play, like, the Master Chief collection. If I know you can. Sorry, I was thinking of 360 there. You know, you can play Halo, you can still play Call of Duty, unfortunately. You can still play, you know, you can still play all of these, like, all the games you love on the Xbox One.
01:16:26
Speaker
there's no real games that you would leap into immediately. And I think it was the same back then that everyone was still invested in their 360, and it's like that kind of slow, kind of lumbering transition period getting people to wean them off, essentially, from the 360 days to what was to come. And
01:16:47
Speaker
As you said though, kind of going onto a positive point, because I know I've kind of ranted enough about the devastating opening of the Xbox One, but let's face it, it has... I feel as if nowadays it's turned into something a lot better.
01:17:04
Speaker
Would you agree with
Game Pass and Cross-Platform Integration
01:17:05
Speaker
that? I would really like it. It has everything that I need to be honest with the Xbox. I love the layout. I actually love the design of it. I like the layout. I think it has the best controller now. I know we've not really talked about the controllers, but I do have a soft spot for the giant Duke original Xbox controller, as oversized as it was. But I think they've refined that design, and I think
01:17:31
Speaker
Xbox One has just had the perfect controller, honestly, and I hope they don't ever change it, to be honest, because I really like the layout of it. But I think I find it intuitive to get around. You know, they do keep changing it a little bit, so I do have to learn, relearn a few things. But I find it quite easy to navigate around. It has everything I want. I think Game Pass is one of the best things. I think Game Pass is the selling point, to be honest, of Xbox now.
01:17:54
Speaker
like you know like it's pretty it's quite a decent price and you get so much there's so much on it now and like Such a wide variety of games and like big title games as well like Red Dead Redemption 2 I don't know if it's still on there, but it was on there for a while So you can get like properly like you know
01:18:10
Speaker
AAA releases if you want, as long as, along with lots of other kind of indie titles. And just there's a great range of things. And I really appreciate that backwards compatibility. And especially at a kind of gaming point in my gaming life that I'm at now, like, I have to admit, I'm not playing as many new games now. I'm very much playing a lot of older games. And I like the fact that I can get so many of them on the, you know, I can even get them on the Xbox One or I can play them. I might have them for another console, like an older Xbox console, but I can still play them on my Xbox One, you know,
01:18:39
Speaker
It just makes a lot easier, so I really appreciate those features of it, and I really like it to know. I don't have shares in Microsoft. I don't work for them or anything, so I don't really have a vested interest that much in how well it sells and stuff, but for me, it's.
01:18:55
Speaker
you know i said i'm quite glad they actually bungled the launch because i think it's worked out better for me in the long run as an owner of an xbox i feel i'm more catered to now i have to admit when the game pass came out i genuinely i'm going to be honest here like i genuinely didn't know what to think of it and it wasn't great to begin with because it wasn't a great list of games i would agree with you on that yeah like
01:19:16
Speaker
Even one of the main problems I do have, and this is the only problem I really have, although this applies to things like Netflix and Amazon and everything, but the fact that there's now like an exclusive period for how long a game's going to be up on the game pass, which I feel as if is a bit annoying. It's not a deal breaker, but it's just it's kind of an annoying thing when it's like, oh, maybe next week I'll get to play that game. And then when you finally get the chance, you're like, oh, it's no longer there.
01:19:43
Speaker
You're like, God damn it. But I mean, that's not like, I'm not saying like, you know, oh, that means it's terrible because you know what? I totally agree with you. I think that. Initially I was a bit wary of it. I was like, why am I paying like a subscription? And you have to pay on top of that. Whereas what they've done now, which I think is bloody brilliant, I'm going to be honest, is not only is it like in one, I think it's like £10 a month or something.
01:20:10
Speaker
about 10.99 and you get like xbox gold and you get well what was xbox gold and you get access to game pass which then also leads to one of the best things about it i mean you get deals as well from that which is absolutely fantastic
01:20:30
Speaker
But what you also get, which I have to admit, I was really proud of this. It's like, I honestly can't praise this enough. But one of the things I love now since I've got a PC is the fact that the game pass actually carries over to your PC now. So it's like, if I wanted to play, don't get me wrong, not every single game
01:20:52
Speaker
as compatible with the PC. There are certain Halo games that you can only just now play, like your favourite ODST.
01:21:02
Speaker
Lucky PC player. But I think it's brilliant that they've managed to sink both of them over. Whereas, and don't get me wrong, again, I'm not kind of pooping on PlayStation owners, but from what I know of it, it doesn't seem to be the same. They still get their free games a month. See, that's another thing as well. You get free games. You get some good ones there as well.
01:21:29
Speaker
no surprises your dad can't come and get us a free yeah i have to admit sometimes like go back to your story earlier sometimes i feel a bit entitled and kind of like really selfish when i see like the games that are free for the month and i'm like oh it's like oh yeah you're gonna put those games for free and it's just yeah it's like a random indie game from like decades ago and you're like oh man
01:21:53
Speaker
But at the same time, they don't have to do that, you know? It's like they don't have to make them free, get they do. And you know what? It is really cool that they do it. I feel as if they have started to improve a lot more.
01:22:09
Speaker
Which is always nice. It's always nice to see. Obviously, like I'm not saying like, oh, okay, oh, Microsoft, you know, because they're still a company at the end of the day. Yeah. Well, that's true. Yeah. Good point. We're in the morning. Good point. Yeah. They're not your best friend. Yeah. I don't want to be like, it's like all praise are, you know, Microsoft words. Well, you know, unless, unless they want to pay us, you know, chat tsunami at gmail.com.
01:22:35
Speaker
But now jokes aside, it is definitely a step in the right direction. And I feel as if they are starting to make strides. But I'm going to point one thing out. What is up with their naming system? It is a bit a lot of the place now. Yeah, like, now it's the X-Box series, I think. Series X, Series S. Series X, Series S, and you're like, but why though?
01:22:58
Speaker
Why? Why did you call it that? I did struggle to remember what they were called. I was trying to think, what are they called again, the new ones? Yeah, it is. And that's why I was joking at the beginning about all the X's and X's going in. Yeah, like it's a bit all over the shop now. But see, this is what my gamer tag, when I was on the 360, was Apocalypse 720. And I did that because I was so convinced that I was like, oh, the next console is definitely going to be called the 720. And then they completely swerved me over calling it the one.
01:23:26
Speaker
Oh, I remember that. Maybe it would have been absolutely blown. Because that is the thing. It's like you have the original Xbox. That's just the Xbox. Then you've got the 360. Okay, 360. Okay, a bit weird, but you know, that's fine. It works. Because you can call it like the Xbox 2. I don't think I would have had the same ring to it. Yeah. But then they had the Xbox One, which was a bit confusing, but it was still distinct enough. You thought, okay, I know one, obviously, in 2000 and was it 2013 that it came out?
01:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, like, no one in 2013 was going to be, you know, like, wanting the new console and being like, oh, you know what, I'll have the console from the last decade. But yeah, then they came out and it's like, oh, we're just going to call them Series X, which is confusing because the Xbox One has a model called the Xbox One X and the One X. So that was a small kind of ranty tangent. But I just wanted to do it.
01:24:21
Speaker
I mean, I've ranted about it before, but Nintendo did exactly the same thing when they went over from the Wii to the Wii U. And nobody knew what the Wii U was because of it. They were like, is it a console? Is it an extension to the Wii? What is it? Nobody knows!
01:24:39
Speaker
well they do now but you know it's like at the time it's like what is this and then of course you had the DS which is which is horrific i mean i'm going to be honest that's horrific you've got like you've got a Nintendo DS you've got the DS Lite you've got the 3DS the new 3DS the 2DS you know like oh just all the DSes that were oh just the naming convention is a nightmare for Nintendo but as a chat sent Abby for another day
01:25:04
Speaker
I don't, I rarely praise Sony, but I will praise it, it's a bit easier to follow, like their console evolution, just from their naming. Yeah, like, again, like I don't want to be like, you know, oh, it seems like a simple name, but sometimes you need that.
01:25:23
Speaker
Depends who's buying it as well. I mean me and you are getting confused here about things and we're people who are like quite au fait with this and stuff. Imagine like a grandparent trying to like get the Series X and stuff and you know like as you say there's an Xbox One X and everything. It's like it is inviting disaster a little bit from that way.
01:25:43
Speaker
Funny enough, that's exactly what I thought when it came out. That was the first thing, because, like, don't get me wrong, I don't know any, like, grandparents in danger anywhere nearby that are gonna go out and buy an Xbox. But, you know, it's like, that's the first thing I thought. I thought, what the parents are, you know? Because let's face it, like, especially parents from our generation, um, like,
01:26:06
Speaker
or not, like, not parents that are, you know, our age, I mean, like, our parents. There, like, when we were growing up, I mean, you know how, like, I don't know if your parents were the same, but you know, it's like, when you asked for another console, and literally
Brand Loyalty and Future Speculations
01:26:20
Speaker
the response, you would know what they were gonna say, you would just hear the, but why though?
01:26:24
Speaker
Yeah. Like I remember asking for, I think it was a Game Boy Advance and my dad turned round and said, oh you've got a Game Boy cover. He didn't even call it that, but he's like, oh you've got a Game Boy, just turned it sideways, ha ha ha ha. And then he woke off and you're like, well that doesn't help me right now, Dad.
01:26:41
Speaker
It's like, well, that doesn't work. Yeah, exactly. I know. He was pleased with himself. He just walked off and I'm like, that doesn't help at all. But that's the thing though. It's like, imagine like, you see, this is the thing because I feel as if nowadays, technically, it's a lot easier. Like, obviously, information's a lot more accessible and all of that with the internet and things. But even then, even then, it's like,
01:27:08
Speaker
how... it's just a nightmare, isn't it? It's like how are you going to explain to like we, Jimothy's dad or Jimothy's mum, that they got in their own kind of egg spokes because I remember seeing like people, I think,
01:27:25
Speaker
i could be wrong here but was it not like a thing where there was a lot of parents getting the xbox x or sorry the xbox x instead of the xbox series x so they're getting like the xbox one x my god i'm confusing even myself here instead of getting the xbox just the regular xbox um or the new one so it's it's all over the place it's just
01:27:52
Speaker
There's no denying it's a little confusing fun times fun times So yeah, are there any kind of closing thoughts you have about the legacy of I think like yeah, I think it's an important like it's like I think it is an important like, you know You I'm glad that there are multiple choices out there for it for for come because you know, Monopoly is always bad so it's good that there is choice and you know, like I think I
01:28:15
Speaker
I think now, especially, it's good that it is big companies that own these things, because even if the Xbox, the Xbox One is probably like a money loser. But, you know, it's good that it's run by a big company that can absorb it and we can, you know, Xbox, the brand will keep going for a while longer. Same with Sony, if Sony's console ever did lose money, you know, that's a big enough brand to absorb it. Same with Nintendo and stuff.
01:28:35
Speaker
Yeah, I said I've been an Xbox gamer since the very start. It's the console that I've grown up with. It's the console that I've known. The consoles are the brand that I've known. As I said, my favorite games are majority on Xbox. My best gaming memories are on Xbox.
01:28:53
Speaker
yeah it's just something that's dear to my heart and i will i don't i don't have a series x at the minute i will i will get one eventually when i when i don't have to pay a scalper you know give them my first born child uh to get one um but like i will i will remain i will remain an xbox
01:29:08
Speaker
an Xbox loyalist to the bitter end because it's my console choice and I have such a back of the games now that what's the point in me switching over? What am I going to do with all these games I've piled up now you know so I am wedded to the Xbox and long shall it remain. I have to admit and this is probably going to sound sappy but I think you're genuinely one of the reasons I stuck to Xbox. You're welcoming and terribly sorry.
01:29:33
Speaker
I genuinely do, because I do have, obviously, I've got other friends that had the Xbox, but at the same time, a lot of them, it's just the way things go, isn't it? They'll move on from what they used to have, or from the kind of old gaming habits, and then they'll move on to another console.
01:29:56
Speaker
or not even another console to just stop gaming. Whereas, yeah, whereas especially with the lockdown and things, you and I and our mutual friend Steven, of course, and, you know, like a bunch of others like Green Shield have just started, you know, just started playing these, you know, just the Xbox, whether it's COD or whether it's Halo. I apologise again for making you play Halo.
01:30:22
Speaker
but you know it's like those kind of games which bring you together and honestly like as you said even though like it has had its mess ups so far like i feel as if it's too early to tell how the xbox series x is going to play in because i've got high hopes for it but at the same time it's like it's really hard to tell in the early days because let's face it like the original xbox
01:30:50
Speaker
I mean, it had so many problems. The Xbox One just... See if you took it at that at face value, like at the very beginning, then you would have never expected it to have taken off with the game pass and things like that. Yeah, it's amazing how it's turned itself around. Whether it's a miracle that it happened,
01:31:10
Speaker
or whether it's like really by luck you know or whether i mean don't get me wrong i'm not saying like it is down to luck i'm sure there was a lot of like hard effort to you know spin it around yeah which definitely like too sweet but
01:31:28
Speaker
yeah I honestly think that they have built something like that hopefully it will last on because it would be a shame to see the xbox which I don't think it would like maybe a controversial take but I think like nintendo well no maybe not nintendo I was gonna say like like kind of closing off if you could choose see one of the three main like giants are gaming just now yeah so you've got like Sony Nintendo and
01:31:54
Speaker
xbox like yeah it's a bit of a more good question but who do you think would go first like who do i think or who do i who would i want to go first no who do you think who do i think would go first honestly i think xbox would go first do you think because well because microsoft have other like you know nintendo nintendo kind of have to keep going because what are they going to do with you know like that's that company surely done for
01:32:21
Speaker
Yeah, unless they go the way of Sega, you know, but then they can have been a success. Well, you know, I know Sega are still going, but Sega haven't been like, you know, a big success story in years, you know, decades. So Nintendo would surely go the same way. So I think Nintendo are, you know, like they have to keep, they have to survive. They have to keep doing well to survive.
01:32:40
Speaker
Sony and I know Sony have other ventures as well like and they do a lot of other hardware and everything so they probably would be fine but I think as well like if they lost PlayStation that would be a big dent I'm gonna guess would be a big dent into their you know revenue in size with Microsoft like Xbox isn't their biggest thing you know obviously it's still Windows and the PC and everything so that you know there's a there's a there's a perfectly viable alternative there for them
01:33:04
Speaker
You know, so I think it would be it would be Xbox that wants to go. I don't think it will because I think it's like, you know, it's established now and it is profitable enough for them to keep going. You know, even if they do lose money, like, you know, occasionally it's not a big enough dent. I don't think at the minute to be something they'd cut bait with. But I think it is the one that's probably most likely to go, unfortunately. And then I guess I'll just have to become a PC gamer.
01:33:27
Speaker
If that ever just happened, or maybe make the switch to Nintendo, I might just switch over to Nintendo, perhaps. God, that would be terrible for you, wouldn't it? Well, I just have to give up first person shooters, I guess. Getting to platforms.
01:33:40
Speaker
I'm not gonna lie, see if I am gonna play like a first person shooter. I'll either do it on the PC or I'll do it on like the PlayStation or Xbox. I can not do it on like Nintendo codes. I tried playing the original Doom. I bought it for the Switch recently. Oh my God, this is not a console design for a first person shooter. It doesn't work. I know it's technically not the same, but I tried playing Skyrim on the Switch. It does work, but see trying to shoot an arrow and it's like, oh, now we've got motion controls and it's like,
01:34:09
Speaker
Please don't. Why? It just stays there. I would have to agree with you on that though. But I know what you mean. There's no way that Xbox or Sony would like... They're not going to go the way of Sega anytime soon. I think if in 2013, if the Xbox One continued
01:34:32
Speaker
the way it was going and it was like saying oh we're gonna you know you know we're gonna keep these bad business decisions then yeah they would have failed right away which is a shame and that's alternate future that i've just thought up of but yeah no the the xbox i think has made a positive impact overall like would you say it's made a positive impact in gaming overall
01:34:56
Speaker
I definitely would say so. I mean like because it's it created like just for me like how the memories that I cherish from my gaming time are on Xbox. I've done that for so many other people and you know like the collective memories and everything and like you know there's some there have been some great games have come out on Xbox like Halo you know Halo is a standout title that's you know
01:35:16
Speaker
you know, highly regarded in history. That was an Xbox game. And, you know, the Forza games are because there's on the peak of racing games, their Xbox titles, like, you know, like Knights of the Old Republic was the Star Wars game was I'm sure was it started off as an Xbox exclusive, you know. So these kind of landmark titles were on the Xbox, you know, originally. So it really has helped kickstart, you know, a lot. And I talked about the franchises that got their start, you know, on the Xbox 360 and then carried on. So I think it definitely has a positive impact.
01:35:45
Speaker
And, you know, it'll be it'll be around for a long week. The amount of money that Microsoft are willing to like take a five billion dollar loss in the original Xbox and then pour in like another over a billion to like deal with the red ring of death.
Xbox's Legacy and Community Engagement
01:36:00
Speaker
you know a situation of the 360 the Xbox is gonna be around for a lot longer oh totally and even in terms of game life you frame it and like the gaming landscape and everything it's never gonna go away is it no no the giant green giant green black will always be there
01:36:20
Speaker
always well. And the Duke controller will forever hold a place in my heart. Oh yeah. I'm so excited they're actually bringing, I think I showed you but they're bringing back a Duke controller for the Series X which makes me really want to get a Series X now.
01:36:34
Speaker
Can we live the glory of a giant controller? Can I just say, speaking of the controllers, that it is a good thing that they haven't changed the design. I know you said this before, you were like, hopefully they don't change the design, but I think the only thing they've changed is they've put a share button in the middle of it.
01:36:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's about it. Yeah, that's about it. The rest of it I think is just, yeah, regular. It's just really neat. Really cool. And also, sorry, one last closing point before we finish off, but I remember you showed me a picture of the original Xbox. Like, design, do you want to explain that?
01:37:08
Speaker
the original prototype. So the prototype that they revealed in 2000, Bill Gates actually revealed in 2000 for the original Xbox console was, it was a giant X shape. And that was basically what it was. So rather than the original Xbox, if people don't know, it was like a kind of classic kind of rectangular console where they're kind of like X.
01:37:30
Speaker
yeah in the middle of it this original prototype which is just going to be the x and take away like the rest of the rectangle and sort of a big green power button in the middle i mean it partly thinks it looks really awesome but other part of me i think it looks highly impractical and i'm like where the hell would that fit in
01:37:46
Speaker
and everything, but they always decided that it was much far easier to go with a more classic console design, but another one could have been. Do you know what it actually reminds me of? Do you remember the old prototype for the PlayStation controller? And it was literally a boomerang. Well, not a boomerang, but it was like that kind of like shape.
01:38:05
Speaker
Like honestly I remember seeing that for the first time and thinking oh it looks so futuristic and then like the more you think about it the more you think. This is just like the, it's honestly like a step away from what the old, remember the old N64 controller? Which I kept in the middle bit and just made it longer at the sides, yeah. It wouldn't have worked but I'd say that's hideous.
01:38:28
Speaker
I don't particularly like the PlayStation 4 controller design, but that boomerang is for me. I have to admit, I prefer, I'm going to put my bias out for sure, but I prefer the Xbox controllers 100% compared to the PlayStation. It always helps if the PlayStation ones are quite fragile. Like, you're touching it. Because I remember, the last bit I swear,
01:38:52
Speaker
but i played heavy rain on the playstation 3 now apparently from what i remember you had to hold down the r like the right trigger for someone to walk forward yeah so it's not like now where if you're playing it on the pc you can move it with the analog stick you have to like physically hold this down for the guy to move around and
01:39:12
Speaker
Yeah, I was always worried because every time I would play it, the button would get looser and looser. And I was like, I was so scared I was going to fall off. But with the Xbox 360 and the Xbox One, I think the Xbox One is just the pinnacle of great design when it comes to those kind of...
01:39:30
Speaker
you know controllers but that's my bias showing and also they also developed like a lot of accessible controllers as well yeah i don't know if you've seen that it's like for people who can't use like standard controllers they've got like i don't know if you've seen them it's like a kind of rectangle with like black circles on them oh yeah they kind of like almost like turntables yeah almost like a table thing
01:39:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really good idea. It is really awesome, the fact that they're putting money into it. And I don't know whether Sony, whether or not they've done something similar, I don't know. But either way, like the fact that a company has done that. And again, this isn't me saying, oh, Microsoft, please adopt me. But I don't know. I just think that's kind of cool. It is cool that they have done that. And hopefully, I'm sure the company has probably done it as well, but hopefully they keep doing that.
01:40:21
Speaker
It would be cool. But yeah, that was the Xbox in 20 years and hopefully, I know it's early days, but hopefully may it continue for... Another 20 more hours. Exactly!
01:40:33
Speaker
Oh, well, hopefully, please. We'll come back in 20 years time and do the 40 year retrospective. It's like, oh my God, what happened to the Xbox 320? As always, Adam, thank you so much for not only bringing up this topic, but joining me. Inflicting more Xbox on you. No, this was my pleasure. I always like looking back. That's the historian in me. I can't help it.
01:41:02
Speaker
Yeah, you and me both. I think that's why we click so much with Xbox. It's just like, yep, this is a great topic for both. Yeah, looking back on analyzing study. A shared cultural history. Exactly. And a basis for a good friendship. Exactly.
01:41:18
Speaker
If you wanna see more of our work, then you can catch me personally on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and of course Twitch under the name Satsanami42. If you wanna check out more of our Chatsanami episodes, you can check us on Anchor, Spotify, and really all good podcast distributors, so just type our name in, Chatsanami, and you'll find us there. We are also in the midst of doing a
01:41:47
Speaker
Yeah, pretty much a Let's Play series is the best way to describe it, isn't it? Where you, of course, myself and our fellow friend Green Shield are playing through a variety of games under the name Tea Posing on YouTube. And yeah, we've been playing through Heavy Rain, which is
01:42:07
Speaker
Yep, which is a very upbeat, family
Conclusion and Listener Gratitude
01:42:10
Speaker
-friendly game. Someone has mentioned a reference in the chat. I will not read that for future reference. So you have to watch the video to know what we mean about this. We've been playing through Heavy Rain, Warzone and Breath of the Wild. But if there's any other games you want us to play, feel free to let us know.
01:42:35
Speaker
Because we're always up for it. So long as it's like... What was the game we said earlier that we didn't want to play? I can't even remember. Quite a few. Yeah, there's quite a few. As long as it's not ODST. Anything but. That is true, yeah. C4 in the strat saying, Heavy Rain, depressing dad simulator. I would recommend you all watch that one.
01:42:56
Speaker
I mean, despite the title, go watch it, it's great. Yeah, it is. If you want opinions on interior decorating and things like that. Yeah, go on. If you want to watch that as you fail miserably, just keep to a schedule. Now, hold on. I didn't fail at that. I'm putting that in there now. I did not fail at that. Go watch it and then see what you think.
01:43:21
Speaker
Oh god. Yeah, someone's saying I'm a fan of the first episode with the censoring. Oh, there's going to be a lot more censoring in the future episodes. Oh, just you wait. Just you wait. Just you wait to see what I've got planned for this censoring.
01:43:35
Speaker
Oh, it'll make a totalitarian state blush with the amount of Bund censorship that is coming that way. As always, guys, thank you all so, so much for joining us today to talk about the Xbox. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, make sure your Xbox doesn't red ring and, yeah, most importantly, stay hydrated. Bye, guys. Bye.