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Ep 185 Cactus Canyon Upgrade Kit | Deep Dive with Josh Sharpe
1.2k Plays9 days ago
Do you have your gun slingers ready? We're going through every aspect of the new upgrade kit for Cactus Canyon! CC isn't the only thing we talk about either
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Transcript
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. I am Josh Roop. With me, my co-captain. Scott Larson. And Scott, we are going be talking about the Cactus Canyon Expanded Kit today. If you want one of these kits, where did you buy yours from?
00:00:21
Speaker
ah So, well, thankfully, I got two of them. One, I got through Zach and Nicole Minnie at Flippin' Out Pinball. And I got that, and because... Um, actually Chicago gaming company was very nice to send me a test kit. And so I actually got one from them, but, uh, Zach and Nicole, many can hook you up with that and you can hook it up to your game and totally transform your game. So definitely reach out to them. Zach and Nicole, many flipping out pit bull.
00:00:46
Speaker
And we learned that it's not 250 bucks. It's, it's, it's, yeah, well, it's, yeah That was a pre-order number on the website. Yes, that that was the secure your spot number. But yes, it is $12.50. It's basically under the price of a typical topper.
00:01:03
Speaker
And so that's actually a really good thing that adds functionality and it adds a totally different experience to a game. And we're going to talk about that today. yeah yeah so And the person that brought this to life is with us today, Mr. Josh Sharp. How are you doing today, Josh? I'm good, boys.
00:01:20
Speaker
I would say I was a cog in the wheel that helped to bring it to life. By no means did did I... ah Okay, you were basically someone who moved it. I was nearly as integral as some of the other people on the team.
00:01:31
Speaker
But what what made you... Was this like originally in the game plan for Cactus Canyon in the original Bally Williams and you were like, we need to make this? What what brought this... What made you guys decide to push it? This... ah There was kind of a weird...
00:01:48
Speaker
crossing of Lyman leaving Stern to start his own consulting business doing software for sort of gun for hire business and made a deal. he he had talked to me about ah making a deal with Chicago Gaming to do an update for Monster Bash, signed on to agree to do that and had asked me to help him in that development.
00:02:15
Speaker
And we started down our merry way of working on a Monster Bash update. I think, I don't know, I can't remember timing-wise, because now it's like five years ago or whatever, but Somewhere along the line, you know Lyman and I were both aware that Doug was making the Cactus remake, and I think there was a point in time where or Doug probably realized, oh, i so I should not have sorted the Williams-Bally classic list by price.
00:02:46
Speaker
when deciding on what remakes to do. I probably should have sorted it by quality of game and realized that, you know, Cactus was really only that expensive because of its rarity.
00:02:58
Speaker
And it was sort of an an emperor has no clothes game. You know, there wasn't a whole lot there. So I know that there were plans from the CGC side to cobble it together and finish what the CGC version of the game was, it's...
00:03:21
Speaker
Doug had reached out to Lyman and myself about putting the Monster Bats project on hold, and i didn't realize how, insert bad word, cactus is as far as a game.
00:03:33
Speaker
Would you guys be willing to step in and help our team get this to some level of quality that can match what we've done with you know what our customers have expected out of Medieval and all the other Lyman games that Doug had been selling for years at that point?
00:03:51
Speaker
And so Lyman and I had a, you know, we we sort of had, kind of and we were talking every day at this point for Monster Bash that, you know, had some ideas of like, I think there, we could do something here to help and agreed to put the bash update on hold and jump in to try to take cactus to whatever level we could to make it the best game we could with the constraints that we had as part of that development.
00:04:22
Speaker
Now with the, when they announced it, now there's, there's been many versions of this code. So there's the original one when we all know that, Williams was basically closing shop.
00:04:34
Speaker
And so they, they did as much as they could on the game. It was their last game before pinball 2000. They were, so they kind of pushed it out completely unfinished. And if you've played a, an original, you definitely know how bare bones that code really is. Yeah, and there were other attempts. There was like a cactus. Can you continue? You know, homebrew type project. Now, you guys also released some version of an updated version for Chicago Gaming Company when when this came came out originally.
00:05:06
Speaker
like yeah it did have so It did have some things, but it wasn't the full project. But you had to have something that was better than the original, but not quite the full fleshed out version. is that Am I my catching that story right?
00:05:19
Speaker
Yes. So worthy of what Chicago Gaming could have released and what they did release for what we would call their base game. Sure. But Lyman's a crazy And, you know, when he jumps in he jumps in, man, you know, the, the dude was a perfectionist and, you know, once being a part of that creative process with him and being able to sort of talk about all the things that he wanted to do, not only software wise, but he had like hardware wise, trying to get the saloon Mac back in cut. He came up with the idea for the lock sign, you know, all this stuff of just like, we could do anything we want. And,
00:06:00
Speaker
part of the plan that we ended up pitching Doug was, hey you know, we have this sort of 12 course menu that by the end of the work we want to do is where we want it to be.
00:06:13
Speaker
And we sort of picked a line in the stance of, and I still have our our Google Doc that we were working with, but you know, at what point should something be a part of the base game? And at what point would this be added content that customers would not expect? And I think, you know, we drew that line based off of sort of if you did play the original game and you realized how much stuff was not in there, it became pretty clear for our roadmap of like, like,
00:06:42
Speaker
this really should have been in the Williams game. You know, it goes over in this column. You know, this whole idea for the saloon mech integration, that's a part of the update. There's no way a customer buying Cactus would have expected this thing to be in their product.
00:06:55
Speaker
So we sort of, the outline for the work was all of it. And then sort of, it was just placing it in buckets of like, is this going to be part of the release game or part of the extended kit? Okay, so the the one thing I do have, i and I will fully admit, by the way, that I did talk about my own hiccups on installing the game. I will totally admit that was totally me misinterpreting what I was supposed to do because I was i actually stripped two parts on it, but it was because I was trying to install it, um in a I guess, in a different way.
00:07:31
Speaker
So the one, the one recommendation I would have is when you're putting it in, just tighten the back setbacks. They're little little posts that look like hex things. Just tighten those by hand and then tighten them from the side, not on the top by me trying to do it from the top. That's how I actually stripped a switch on there.
00:07:50
Speaker
It's a, it's, it's hard. I mean, there, and that was a part of sort of coming up with the, the idea when Lyman was throwing out sort of the hardware and it was like, are customers installing this themselves? You know, you you ask all the questions that you should ask, which is like, i mean, these people don't know how to take, open a coin door or take the glass off. They're going to be installing mechs that, and for me, I was sort of, i'm I'm the idiot of the group of just like, you want me to take this thing and I'm cutting wires off and I'm putting like, are you crazy? How is this going to work? And that was part of like the see the CGC engineering side of just like,
00:08:26
Speaker
How do we make that? It's going to be challenging. You know, that we we did too much in terms of of changing the game that there were going to be challenges. This is not a, you know, add something to a post and be done and it's decorative and there's one wire that gets power for light. I mean, the functionality for that saloon mech is some serious engineering business. And, ah Yeah, it I see it with every pin side post with someone that's having, you know, I'm learning far more about electrical interference than I probably ever wish I needed to in my life.
00:09:00
Speaker
It actually was ah when I look at it, it actually now that I know a lot more about it. When I go over to my friend's house that's going to install his update, I bet we can knock it out in probably 90 minutes, which is good. and And the thing is you learn, anybody who's worked on their machines know that you kind of, it's it's a little bit of a, when I'm working on machine a machine, lot of times after I finish the project, it probably took three times longer than I should have, but I learned something from it.
00:09:29
Speaker
And, you know, it's the same thing anytime the the first timer is learning how to take the glass off, lift the play field, you know rebuild a flipper mechanism. And so these things are, this is just part of the the pinball experience, but I actually did have kind of a blast putting it all in and the finished product really did take this game to a new level. And we, we've talked a little bit behind the scenes ah with ah Joel from, you know, and Joel does his flipping out streams. He also did a tutorial on this and in install.
00:10:01
Speaker
And he said with the upgrade, know, that he feels this game has has surpassed Medieval Madness for like a complete fan layout game. And by the way, I totally agree with him because I didn't think that this update would would drastically change the product of of Cactus Canyon as much as it truly did.
00:10:25
Speaker
And so you know can you tell me a little bit more about, okay, how how did you go all out in basically transforming the game by installing um a saloon door, a ah spinner switch,
00:10:40
Speaker
and code because for the casual fan, when you buy a pinball machine, other other machines have gone through a similar transformation. And you can think of you know things like like Stern's Deadpool when it first came out, it was really panned because the code wasn't really up to snuff.
00:10:58
Speaker
Now we know that Deadpool is actually a very good game, but because the code has radically changed how the layout is used. So as a similar process, when you take Cactus Canyon, when you have a basic fan layout that has, you know, seven or eight shots, and then you add so ah a spinner and a mechanism, but that can radically change how the game feels. So talk about that.
00:11:21
Speaker
I think, you know, the big thing is realizing and and Lyman was the master at this was so much, you know, from that era of Lyman games, Lyman became so much better of a programmer and game designer, you know, rules wise and whatnot. The game had has evolved since that era.
00:11:42
Speaker
But the foundation of what that era represents and what I circle back to and call the Williams charm was trying to find that balance of offering, you know, risk reward was not a huge thing in the 90s. You know, the depth of content, not a huge thing in ah in the I feel like i feel like the The Williams, you know, that is a huge part of the content today. And i feel like what has been lost today is that three minutes to charm you experience that kind of no longer applies because it doesn't matter because people are playing in their basements and they need 65 minutes of stuff. They don't.
00:12:26
Speaker
They don't. They need the same experience that hooked them in pinball originally with those additional layers of onions that you can unwrap. And I feel like that's where with Cactus, we were able to sort of merge both worlds in a way that makes it a very unique product. It can stand up to games in the 90s, being able to present casual players and people that can fall in love with pinball for the first time.
00:12:54
Speaker
We're going to grab you in 60 seconds and make you laugh, make you feel something, make you advance a story in a way that you understand what's going on. And for those that are hooked on depth of content and breadth of content, we got you.
00:13:11
Speaker
Because Lyman and i are still those players today that also want to be challenged in that way with the game. So when you are creating a rule set and stuff like that, are you, I mean, obviously you, you do tournaments occasionally. Are you, are you, are you taking that into account as well? Cause there's, there's a lot of, I mean, like you said, there's a lot of depth to these modern games. And so where do you, where do you find the fine balance between the so three minutes? I feel like the, you know, not to be the biggest hypocrite in the world, but like tournament players can go F themselves guys. Yeah.
00:13:48
Speaker
And what I mean by that really is it doesn't take much to satisfy. It seems like it takes a lot to satisfy that group in terms of like 71 different things to do and combinations that you could do frontwards and backwards and sideways and four ways and whatever. and it's really not like for me, the essence of a balanced competitive game is I have a ball cradle on the flipper And the game's job is to make me make a choice between more than one option that are both viable strategies.
00:14:24
Speaker
You don't need 71 things. You need two things. I need you to question where you want to go. And there's, if you choose to shoot whatever on the left, you're Here's the pros of what you're gonna get, and here's the consequences of what you're not gonna get by avoiding the shot on the right. I feel like it's like, let's make a deal. Door number one or door number two, both come with great things.
00:14:46
Speaker
You're gonna be missing out on the thing you don't pick. You're gonna enjoy the things that you do pick. And it's really that it's that simple to hook tournament people because you just need and that was a big part of of the score balancing and stuff with Lyman and I play testing the crap out of this thing is, you know, you have a ball in the flipper and it's like, why, did you know, why didn't you shoot that?
00:15:08
Speaker
You know, I don't think it's worth enough, bla blah, blah, blah. And we just organically, you play and you talk through it. And because we're good, we would play against each other. Penny would come over. We'd play every week. Wednesday night was play night with whatever the latest code was.
00:15:20
Speaker
And it's like, what if I make the value this? Do you shoot it? No, I don't think so. What about that? And you just start making soup. You know, you turn something up in a way and it's like, now I'm intrigued. You know, maybe I do shoot that left ram. I haven't the last three months, but now I'm considering it.
00:15:38
Speaker
and And it just, for better or worse, and Lord knows with with CGC, the one thing you do have is time. And the ability to have enough time to get it right, it really does take so much time of...
00:15:53
Speaker
playing and putting yourself into these situations while you're playing to analyze the situation. It's so hard to do that on a spreadsheet of value and just looking at these options on a spreadsheet and saying, this should be pretty good. It's never, it never ends up that good.
00:16:14
Speaker
So let's talk about the things that you did at it. Now i'm I'm just looking at your, uh, at the manual, you know, I wonder if I have one. I don't have one here. You'll have to rope me in. No, it's okay. i i I'm reading from it for you, so don't worry about it.
00:16:29
Speaker
So it says, this upgrade includes 10 new modes, two enhanced modes, many new animations, new sound and music by Rob Berry, never before heard original sounds, a saloon mechanism spinner.
00:16:45
Speaker
And, and so, okay. So I want to go through the modes and tell me, tell me how these, because that's actually crazy when you think about it, because most people will buy some sort of mod or some sort of topper. And the big selling thing right now is the topper is you get a random exclusive mode that you're not going to use.
00:17:05
Speaker
Okay. That's the big selling thing and with with, you know, some, some plastics. And by the way, I'm a total sucker for, ah for toppers. I have them on every game except for iron maiden. If someone has knee jump topper, let me know. um But okay. So I'm going to start going through it and I want you to tell me about how the modes are changed. So first off you have a skill shot, hurry up.
00:17:27
Speaker
here And so, and and I know about it. So basically you pull it, it's part of that, of that rotisserie thing in the, you know in that little spinny thing that it's going through. And if you get it, you have to shoot the left orbit.
00:17:43
Speaker
Right. Very good. Actually, this is perfect. if You should be able to talk through these, which would let me know that like we did a decent job. Okay. It's understandable for you. So like I will course correct as you go, but I'm just going to sit in awe of your ability to explain it. Which, which by the way, if anybody knows about my understanding of rules, this is impressive that I've been able to pick up on all this because yeah I got it.
00:18:06
Speaker
I am your typical dumb collector that flips at home. Yeah. that You know what though? You, you are, you're, you're the rule. You're not the exception. You know, the, the tournament savant people, those people are the exceptions, man. yeah They're crazy.
00:18:21
Speaker
When I'm talking to tournament people they're like, Hey, here, here's all the five ways you can approach. I'm like, I, I don't know any of that. Okay. All right. So, so I got that right. So I got, I got, I got the hurry up. Okay. Then you have Bella Bart. Now Bella Bart's been on the back glass before, but there, there was no, there, there was no confrontation with Bella in the past. ah did Did I get that right? Correct. or Okay. And so now she's just added to one of the, one of the people you're interacting with when you're shooting up the saloon.
00:18:51
Speaker
She is part of the gang. Yes. So you shoot the saloon door. And by the way, so, so someone who doesn't look at the mechanism closely, you actually have ah a spinner that opens up. And so, you know, it's a, it's a state change. So you shoot that and then it opens the saloon door and then you shoot it in. Okay. So she has been added to the cast of characters that you're fighting.
00:19:12
Speaker
Right. Okay. And so next you have the saloon fight. So now you have this. And so I'm reading off this. It's you hit the spinner. So this is how you engage the saloon fight. You keep hitting that spinner, which is by the way, a really hefty spinner.
00:19:30
Speaker
And you shoot that it's the, the skills it's the marksman shot. And so you get that and you you spin it and it spins up enough. And then once it gets to a point, then It's a, ah isn't it a timed mode where it's like you have a certain amount of time to, to build up the jackpot and then cash out the jackpot with the, with the bear shot, right? The bear shot.
00:19:52
Speaker
two Okay. Rock on. Look at that. Okay, now we have the gunfight. So this is actually interesting because I'm not sure I fully understand this yet, but I'm i'm getting it. So god you have the gun. This is definitely the most, i mean, this was the first rule that we came up with and by far the most modern risk reward take okay of a 90s game that we have ever done.
00:20:18
Speaker
so So it's ball specific, right? And so what you're doing is you're trying to build up the jackpot. Now, I'm not quite sure. Is it just switch hits that you're hitting to build up the jackpot?
00:20:30
Speaker
ah Because if you build it enough. so Those familiar with if Lyman borrowed from himself. Okay. For better or worse, it's the ACDC song jackpot rule. Okay. Slightly modified. so Okay.
00:20:44
Speaker
You have this gunfight situation, which Lyman and I, you know, it was a the first question we asked ourselves when we started on the project was, what's the coolest part of this game?
00:20:57
Speaker
you You write down your answer, Josh, and I'll write down mine. And it's like, okay, Lyman, I got it. And he's like, I got it too. And we both, you know, hold up a flashcard and we both say gunfight.
00:21:08
Speaker
Because, you know, the the drama it creates in that moment is just, even in the Bates-Williams game, was like, oh, these guys had something here. This was really a cool moment.
00:21:21
Speaker
How do we make this moment the most important thing this game has to offer, scoring-wise and whatnot? And so that was sort of the tree trunk to... the biggest change we were going to make in the game because scoring wise gunfight was kind of a throwaway mode in the original game.
00:21:39
Speaker
Well, it's a danger mode too. mean, half of those shots are, are brick shots that you're, that you have to rescue because there's four different options. And that's actually one thing that's cool. You don't know which of the four options is going to be.
00:21:50
Speaker
That's right. So you have the, what is it? Five shot modes, after those shot trees. Mm-hmm. the points if The points you earn in that mode, if you finish the mode, you not only earn those points, but they get banked into the next gunfight value.
00:22:09
Speaker
If you beat a Bart, the points you earn from beating the Bart gets banked into the gunfight value. You can continue. it is i mean, it is risk-reward at its most primal.
00:22:22
Speaker
but You can... Cash out any time you want. You can toggle the inlanes to start the gunfight when you want, or press your luck for every additional mode or BART you beat, the contribution of those points get multiplied as you go.
00:22:40
Speaker
So, finish a mode, those points get banked. Defeat a BART, those BART points get banked at 2x. Finish another mode, those mode points get banked at three x Defeat another BART. Those BART points get banked at 4x. So there's always this next, I don't know, do you like your your three scoops Sunday? Because this fourth scoop's f freaking huge.
00:23:02
Speaker
It's always out. The next one is always so much bigger. You're left balancing. Do I push it or do I cash out? Okay, here's my question.
00:23:13
Speaker
Josh, you are an elite player. What do, what is your strategy? Like how many, how many scoops on the Sunday do you typically go for? I'm curious. So I am, uh, there's two things i really focus on, which is i try to never do the gunfight from the left flipper because number three, and I hate it.
00:23:34
Speaker
It's always number three, the target that comes up. I find that it's much easier from the right flipper, But for me, and and sometimes it's tough to monitor, but I will usually keep going if I am one shot away from another mode starting. So you kind of have to track because the inserts, you know, once you start a mode, your insert progress goes out.
00:23:56
Speaker
yeah So once you finish a mode, it's like if you can find a way to trap up and it's like, oh, you know, the the ride them cowboy mode is next. I'm going to do that at three X. And then you come out of that and it's like, Oh, the marksman mode is ready to go. That's it for it. That's one shot.
00:24:13
Speaker
Bam. Next. I find if I'm like two shots away, it's like, Oh, the, the idea of like, I might get nothing starts yeah to, to wane and and I'll usually bail.
00:24:26
Speaker
that That's the, what it, was that the the Willy Wonka code? And you get nothing! the yeah no and the The one thing that you just subtly glazed over is you can actually defer the gunfight mode because you are selecting it with the flippers. And so if you don't want to start the gunfight mode, you can actually flip it quickly to the other in lane.
00:24:48
Speaker
And, okay. So so that that's definitely the risk-reward on that. Yes. Okay. So then we get to the shootout topper mode. Yes. Now I, okay. This one, I, I've, I've been playing this for about a week and I, I don't get this all the time. So how, how do you engage it? And this is actually because before the other topper mode was you'd actually have to hold the button and it would, it would cycle over until you shot And so there's like some light bars up there that tell you exactly where you're aiming. So that was the old topper mode. This one is actually just a person pops up and you hit the button and you shoot them.
00:25:30
Speaker
So it's just a a left, right. It's a, it's a, it's a quicker, it's a quicker mode, but there's, and there's a cow in one and there's a girl in the other one and everything else is bad guys. and So basically you have a a quick second is like, do I shoot left? Do i shoot right? And is that a target? Correct. um And so how do I engage the topper mode?
00:25:51
Speaker
And, and the thing is, the girl and the cow, they're always in the same spot. So they are you just memorize those. you're just like, okay, don't, don't shoot. It's amazing how often they'll still get you. Yeah. But no I shoot them all the time. I'm still again, terrible, but okay. So tell me how to engage the, the topper mode, the topper shootout.
00:26:10
Speaker
It is one of the beer mug awards are on that, that, train of awards that are, I think, I think shootout two is first. Cause that is the new content version for anyone that has the update, which in our notes is the, uh, Dracula video mode done in topper form.
00:26:29
Speaker
And then the original one that shipped with the base game, which is shootout one. so is not like said that that That was bear shot modes. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. It like it was actually a lot. You had to try.
00:26:41
Speaker
The awards, you know, depending on if you have extra balls on or not, you know, the award tree hits at different times if you have like extras available or not at any given time. Okay.
00:26:53
Speaker
Yeah. and And that's actually quick. ah For a second, I got a little tripped up because I was expecting the hold the, like hold the button to get the, you know, to to track that that shot thing. So that that was a little recalibration of my brain that it was just a quick a quick tap. Okay. Now you have showdown.
00:27:10
Speaker
So, um you hit all of it. Now this is, this is where I haven't played it enough to figure this out. So is this just, you hit enough of the, of the Barts until you get to, and is is that where it Or maybe maybe you can explain it a lot better because I keep going through the BART modes and I get a little hung up on then like a bionic bar or that one. And so tell me more about the showdown.
00:27:39
Speaker
So showdown is your multi-ball that's related to quick draws. So your targets on the side, right spot those glowy orange spot targets will light your corresponding in-lane.
00:27:53
Speaker
It'll pop up a target. Targets are so fun, they're used for multiple purposes, which is confusing, but it's ah you know part of our frustration in trying to solve this puzzle is is having these things lit for different things. But The short answer is finish a quick draw on all four targets and you will reach showdown multiball.
00:28:15
Speaker
Okay. and And that's the one where all of them pop up. And you got to clear them. You have to clear them. Okay. Yeah. I've done that. I've done that multiple times. And then if you clear them, don't you get another ball added? So, yes.
00:28:28
Speaker
And so... So it keeps getting harder because you have to clear them. You keep getting more balls added, but it's pretty hard to keep all the balls to track all the balls. Once you get more and more balls.
00:28:38
Speaker
So you have to clear you get three balls is the max. So yeahp you have to clear all the targets and then the jackpot inserts will light. Um, these five main shots, um, You actually have to hit one of those shots to at a ball. And if the next time you're playing or someone else is playing this multiball at your place, you can watch the topper will have the bad guys. you know you As you make progress shooting the jackpot shots, you're defeating bad bosses gang members okay as you're progressing in that multiball. So you'll see, you know once you hit all four drops and the jackpots are lit, you'll see a bad guy flashing on the topper.
00:29:17
Speaker
Hit a jackpot shot, and you'll see a red X go over that person. Clear the four drops again. You'll see bad guy number two on the topper start flashing. Hit one of the remaining jackpot shots. Bam.
00:29:29
Speaker
Red X on that guy, and you've got to progress through all of them until you can get to the ah the end, which is at the saloon. The saloon shot is the super. After you clear clear the deck of all the bad guys. It's pretty it's it's the hardest...
00:29:45
Speaker
thing to do to reach high noon now. Okay. So that would be six. That's six bad guys and two good guys up there. Right. Did I count that right? Yeah. Ignore the good guys. They're not used. Okay.
00:29:57
Speaker
so so you have So you have to do that six times and then shoot the salute. Wow. Now you do get to, it saves your progress. So if you do four guys the first time, you get back into that multi-ball. Oh, okay. clear that Clear the drop targets. You'll have the remaining number of jackpots available. If that's only two, you'll only have those two left and you'll be on bad guy number five.
00:30:20
Speaker
Okay. Actually, that that's good to know because i I have, okay, the problem is with multiple, as everybody who's playing never looks up because they're just trying to keep, you know, their eyes down. So oh yeah that could be a good thing if you're playing with a buddy that they can shout out how many you have.
00:30:35
Speaker
You should. Hopefully the inserts on the play field will also, you know, when when you go to try to shoot a jackpot shot and you notice, oh man, only the marksman shot is lit. You're getting pretty close.
00:30:45
Speaker
Oh, okay. So as you shoot the jackpot shots, they are, those shots are eliminated from, okay. Okay. Well, that, all right. That's good to know. ah Okay. Gunfight ball save. I find this awesome.
00:30:58
Speaker
yeah This is, this is so fun because this is a little bit like the, you know, ah other games have this, you have like wizard of Oz where you have like safe Toto and you have, you know, Godzilla, you have the oxygen oxygen. Yeah. So, okay. Now the thing is, I don't know how to qualify it. So I, I'm trying to look at this real quick.
00:31:17
Speaker
So after reaching the rank of deputy, okay. So you have to reach reach a deputy. There you go. Okay. And then you have the, uh, okay. So out of way fight right a lot pop quiz, Scott, yeah how do you, how do you advance rank?
00:31:31
Speaker
Uh, I'm lucky. And I get one of the stars when I plunge one, there's two, there's two other ways. Okay. One is the, but one is the bounty award. It can advance your rank and winning a gunfight advances your rank. A single gunfight.
00:31:47
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, i I have noticed that I have moved upwards in ranks on the new code way faster than I did in the old code. So either I'm a better player or the code is allowing me to... The game's helping you. Yeah, I think... Either way, take it. Take it run. Okay.
00:32:04
Speaker
No, absolutely. Okay. So once you get to that point and you have the gunfight ball save... Now, the gunfight ball save, does it um alternate between an outlane or is it only a single outlane? It's only the only insert we had was that left insert. that yeah the left outline Like that was one of our puzzle piece pieces.
00:32:26
Speaker
puzzle pieces that we needed to solve. We have this, we have this insert that says, of course it says gunfight because it's everything in this game. There's so many different gunfights. Why is this gunfight different? It's red. and And just sort of being able to riff on what can we do here and hearkening back to like the million dollar shot on fast break that, uh, Mr. Gomez did way back in the day and, uh, trying to do something fun and charming with that rather than just giving your ball back.
00:32:57
Speaker
Well, the fun thing about this is there are penalty shots. Yeah. so you have So it shoots up all four of the of the the the draw, the gunfight shots, and three of them are red and one of them is green.
00:33:11
Speaker
So if you hit the green one, great, you get your ball back. But if you hit the red ones, they're like, ah, you're dead. Yeah. So i I actually find that fun because it's um it it harkens a little bit back to when I've gone to pinball Olympics before.
00:33:26
Speaker
Where they have where they have the penalty shot where you you shoot, you know, they they have the games wired to each other. And when I was on Metallica, if you shot to oh the the I can't remember the the fuel shot, the left, the left upper shot, and you would tilt the other guys. sorry yeah So it was brutal. I'm surprised those guys wouldn't be. And you actually electrocute your opponent for real. Yeah.
00:33:49
Speaker
ah Okay. So that's the gunfight ball save. Does that, um can you relight that as, or is that that like a single, so that's a single throughout the game. You just get that one time.
00:34:01
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Now you have the Frank and beans one. Okay. This one is, is hilarious for all the kids out there. Cause it's all the fart jokes. So, and that came from a cactus Canyon continued.
00:34:14
Speaker
Okay. Mr. Pripki. That was one of the modes that he had in his game. And, I had reached out to him early on about and let him know what Lyman and I were doing pretty early on in the in the process and definitely wanted to make sure that He was cool if there was any any overlapping of stuff that that we thought he did that fit within our universe.
00:34:36
Speaker
You know, what did he think about us being able to borrow some of that stuff? And he was super gracious in ah letting us know whatever we wanted to use or reference or whatever was totally cool by him, which was awesome.
00:34:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's really great. Okay. Okay. So it looks like that you hit enough beer mug shots and then you qualify it at the saloon. So is there like a certain amount that you hit on the beer mugs and then shoot the saloon or Yeah, it'll be one of, you know, when you hit it and it's like shoot out it at 10 or whatever at 15 or whatever at 20, it will be one of those things in the tree where you'll hit the beer mug and it'll say Franks and beans at 20.
00:35:13
Speaker
Okay. and And then it's just, this is a switch hit mode where you you keep, you keep doing that and then you build up the jackpot and do you cash out the jackpot? dot it is you know It is just, it is just a base level scoring frenzy. Okay.
00:35:26
Speaker
Rip the spinner for many farts in a row. Okay. what Okay. Then we have drunken multiple. hu So, okay. I don't, I actually don't even know if I've gotten this one.
00:35:38
Speaker
So, so tell me about, Oh, your flippers are reversed. so They are. Also borrowed from ah Cactus Canning Continued. Okay. Lyman for a while.
00:35:50
Speaker
why he didn't... what Flippers reversed is so played out, guys. or what you like at At this point, it wasn't as surprising as... i know when when Keith Johnson did it on Simpsons, I definitely was like, oh my god! this is insane! not need know Not quite that level of of dropping a mic.
00:36:09
Speaker
but and So Lyman had this idea of... well, instead of crossing your flippers, why don't we do like you're drunk and the flippers are slightly delayed? And it just turned out to be a really terrible idea.
00:36:23
Speaker
it didn like Like it was not fun and it just seemed like the game was broken in some way. Yeah, right. Like you were playing video pinball with the lag. Oh, Jesus. And so that was one of the, you know, sounded interesting written on a piece of paper, not so much in in practice.
00:36:41
Speaker
You're telling me theater of magic video mode isn't what we're attempting for here. It felt a lot like that. Okay. So how do you, quite so again, you hit enough beer shots to qualify this mode at the saloon. So it's just, it's, it's in that tree.
00:36:54
Speaker
It's in that tree. Okay. Then you got saloon party. I actually don't, don't know if I've played this one yet. So that is at the back end of once you defeat all the Barts and you're kind of in this state of play where all the bad guys are done, what do we do now? you know and And what you do now is you have a party.
00:37:16
Speaker
there's no There's nobody else that's going to be messing up your world in that saloon. You've taken care of all the bad guys. So continued hits to the saloon will advance this role.
00:37:28
Speaker
Okay. Now, i the one thing that I... Bionic Bart seems like I'm getting to Bionic Bart a lot more in this version than I did in the previous version. Am I getting a better player or is it, is it closer in the tree? It's not close. You have one more, you know, with Bella. and yeah yeah yeah There's one more bad guy to get through. So you're, I'm putting your, I'm putting it on your pinball skills. Maybe I, maybe I'm, I'm better than I thought. Good. time is it Okay. So with, but with Bart, the interesting thing is the, the Bionic Bart.
00:38:00
Speaker
Okay, walk me through the bionic part because it seems like you hit him and then you have to hit like all the all the jackpots and and there's like increasing amount that I have to hit before I hit the saloon again. Is that like, like you got am I understanding that correctly? yeah So you hit him to start and then you got to shoot a minimum of one jackpot shot before you can land another punch on him. yep And risk reward wise, the every every punch you land on him is the value of the jackpots you hit in between punches. So okay you're welcome to go to town and.
00:38:35
Speaker
shoot jackpot shots for an hour if you want, and then your punch will really count score-wise. Or you can do one shot back to his his chest, two shots,
00:38:48
Speaker
back hitting them again. and then I think it's, I think it's one, two, three, or it's yeah one, two, three, and four. And then like that end of that will destroy him. Yeah. So what, what I thought, at least my and understanding is that you hit one jackpot, then you hit him, hit two jackpots, then hit him three.
00:39:05
Speaker
Is that, is that still how it is? Or yeah can that's just a minimum. You're welcome to keep shooting jackpot shots. Okay. So you can, you could hit like four jackpots and really like give a land, a big uppercut.
00:39:16
Speaker
Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. So that's, uh, that, that's what I, well, okay. At least, at least I understand it, but I didn't know that you could, uh, you could go beyond that. Okay. So Marshall, so the mini wizard mode. So tell me about the Marshall mode.
00:39:31
Speaker
So in that advanced rank tree that you get from your gunfight wins or your skillshot or your bounty,
00:39:42
Speaker
there, once you reach the end, there was nothing in the game. So this was another rule pretty early on that we knew, you know, this should be something special in some way. You just advanced this thing to the end and there's nothing.
00:39:59
Speaker
So the, uh, the rule there, once you get to the end, you'll see the, uh, have you reached it or you have not? No, I haven't reached it yet. It's ah it's hard. The, uh,
00:40:10
Speaker
gunfight in lanes will start to sort of pulse quickly and both of them will be lit, which is different than the rest of the game that you're playing. You'll be able to alternate them. You will notice a difference that these are both lit at the same time and they're not going away.
00:40:25
Speaker
Go down to either one of those and that Marshall mode will start. And i think what did I wrote up some garbage for that flyer? Read my verb. Yeah. Okay. It's a wonderful story. All right. Story time, children. A mini wizard mode has been added ah once you reach the rank of Marshall.
00:40:43
Speaker
Boss Bart sends a group of bad guys to hijack the train and it's headed home to Cactus Canyon Station. Shoot jackpots to help bring the train home and send those bad guys to jail. However, just when you think everything is safe, the bad guys escape, triggering the start to marshal multiball. ah Hit jackpots and drop targets to complete, to capture those bad guys and send them back to jail.
00:41:06
Speaker
So, you're... The train starts on the right. And this is another part where, you know, the train was only integrated in the poly mode, the same poly mode. yeah And really technically only the same poly from the train mode, yeah I think. And so trying to get another point in time where we can integrate the the the train in game play.
00:41:29
Speaker
as not just a timer, but sort of as part of the story was sort of the foundation for how the rules of this mode supported that. So it starts on the right ramp, which is your train starts all the way to the right.
00:41:43
Speaker
And there's a drop target that pops up that gets in the way of making that right ramp shot harder. If you can, your goal is to shoot the right ramp before your timer runs out.
00:41:55
Speaker
If you can do it without knocking the target down that's blocking it, you get more points. It's not necessary for advancement of the story. But if you shoot the right ramp, the train will move and something else will get in the way. And the display will have, you know, it's a boulder, it's a cow or whatever ends up getting pulled in front of the train. And so it'll move to the Marshall, the Marshall shot and it'll stop.
00:42:18
Speaker
The drop target drop targets number three and four will come up, and that's sort of your next interaction with the bad guys of, oh, no, you know they're' they've taken over control.
00:42:29
Speaker
Shoot that marksman shot before the timer runs out. Get more points if you do it without hitting the targets, if you can thread that needle on that shot, and it'll advance to the center ramp. Targets two and three will pop up and you're advancing that train all the way back to Cactus Canyon Station with the final shot being on the left orbit.
00:42:50
Speaker
If you can make that, you will get the train home safely and then have this multi-ball aspect of like the tier two level of the mode.
00:43:00
Speaker
Okay. And by the way, you you said drop targets three and four. I'm assuming you're naming them from left to right. and they i I'm naming them from left to right. Okay. All right. So now you have high noon, okay?
00:43:13
Speaker
So now this is this is a mode I haven't got to, so you'll have to tell me about it.
00:43:19
Speaker
Man, it's been while since I've gotten to it. All right, I'll read you fly. What did I send CGC about it? Okay. High noon had you fighting boss Bart's entire gang, but the question hasn't been answered in 25 years is where did boss Bart go? Where's Polly?
00:43:35
Speaker
This update brings a second stage to the high noon battle after escaping with Polly and taking her hostage. It's time for the ultimate showdown with boss Bart to save Polly and to bring peace back to cactus Canyon.
00:43:49
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds right. Okay. Sounds like something I wrote. I like the accent. that man The, uh, During stage one, which is still what was in the original Williams game, you have a certain amount of time to hit as many bad guys as you can. think it's like you need to hit 30 in 30 seconds. So unlimited balls, they keep coming. Every target you hit, they keep popping up.
00:44:11
Speaker
And as you get down to like four bad guys left out of the 30, they will not come back up. So your final four will be, you know, one...
00:44:22
Speaker
two, four, and then your last one to hit would be number three because number three sucks. It's always so hard to hit. You hit that one in the allotted time and you'll hit, you'll enter this stage two, which is new. Stage two is pretty simple.
00:44:40
Speaker
You got to hit Bart. but drop target number three, which blocks Bart, you need to hit that down and then it's only down temporarily. So you got to hit that down and then get it back into a shot on Bart before it pops back up.
00:44:58
Speaker
And do you have to hit shot three before you can't like scoot around it? Oh no you can. I mean, the whole game where you want to hit drop target three and you miss it and shoot the saloon, you can do that the entire game. okay and And you can certainly do that here at the end. And you won't because now you want to hit it into the saloon back and you will find yourself just hitting drop target three over and over again. yeah Yeah. Okay. Three three shots into into the Bart. Into the Bart. We'll well knock him dead. Okay.
00:45:30
Speaker
The peasants will rejoice. Yay. Okay. So, so that is, and now speaking of that is we've, we've just spent basically 30 minutes going over a complete rehaul of the, of the code, which is, is super impressive. So what else do you want people to know about the update? And I'm assuming that people who have the cactus Canyon, like, why wouldn't you want to get the update? I don't understand why people would not buy the update.
00:45:59
Speaker
It's a good quote. I think, you know, it, the overwhelming question and the, and obviously the hardware is what the hardware is, but a lot of the conversations that Lyman and I had with CGC is really, we're really going to learn what is the value of software.
00:46:20
Speaker
It, there are no costs of goods, right? It's, it's free. And I feel like software, and this goes for all, you know, when you see software updates from other manufacturers, the,
00:46:31
Speaker
The idea that i
00:46:35
Speaker
anything, it should be free because this is now the complete game. but And dealing with that narrative of if Stern or whoever else were to put certain features behind a paywall,
00:46:49
Speaker
How do you deal with that narrative with your customer base that, well, now they're just artificially picking a line that's 1.0? It was all the conversations we were having of like, are are customers going to feel like we intentionally held things back?
00:47:04
Speaker
that they should have gotten with the product that they purchased. So that's, I mean, that's a real thing. And there's certainly, you know, a fair share of people that believe exactly that.
00:47:16
Speaker
yeah that we And we have this outline for the project and we did pick a line, right? That was content that was included in the base game you purchased and content that like, it's behind a paywall. And it's like, we're really sorry about that. But,
00:47:32
Speaker
There's a lot of money spent on development on software, art, sounds, you know, all that stuff that while doesn't it it doesn't go on the bill of materials, it does need to be paid for.
00:47:48
Speaker
But i I would argue that even with other manufacturers, you're starting to see that. mean, with the topper exclusive modes that Stern's doing, like you're already seeing that people are like, well, okay, so I'm not getting the full game if I don't get like goat frenzy or or whatever. The shark is broken.
00:48:08
Speaker
And so this is not something that's unique. ah but yeah But move, you know, I mean, in your mind, move that line. but I mean, X-Men just had an update, right? Let's say four months ago, they called X-Men 1.0. Right.
00:48:22
Speaker
right And now this new update that is free, you know, for people that have the game. What if it was being sold? And dealing with that feedback with the community of, you know, oh man, are we getting, you know, what is the contract with the buyer in terms of what they deserve versus what they deserve based on what they have already paid for? And how can that customer, should that customer be monetized additionally for content?
00:48:52
Speaker
Right. And you do see it a little bit. You do see it a little bit. Now there are other games where I have wondered about buying like, uh, actually, and this is something near and dear to your company. Uh, so big buck hunter. yeah yeah I thought about buying big buck hunter a few times.
00:49:09
Speaker
Um, one, which I think I just barely found out that you can turn off like the, the the hot checks transition mode ah between. And so that that actually is a plus for home environment. but the Yeah, I get it. I get it. So, uh, so I did just find that out. I'm like, huh, that may maybe be interesting. But then there is, if you buy something like that and they're like, okay, so now to get the full game, I believe that you can still play a single mode without the subscription. But if you want all the other stuff you pay, it's like, I think it's like 40, 40 bucks a month to get the full unlimited thing. Do I, do I understand that correctly?
00:49:46
Speaker
Yes. So our model is you either can pay for, and hold on, let me, since I'm at work, I can actually, i can actually, Oh, there you go. At work. So,
00:49:58
Speaker
There is a base game that is our base game is online. So it's heavily subsidized. It's a much cheaper product. Right. And for $40 a month, you get our base Buck Hunter game with all of the additional animals and levels that have been built onto that additional game.
00:50:18
Speaker
You get our Terminator game. You get our Walking Dead game. You get In Search of Monsters, In Search of Zombies, and Duck Dynasty. All of that content is included in the online game that you pay per month. If you don't want to pay per month, you can buy what we call the offline version of the product.
00:50:38
Speaker
It is way more expensive because you are buying it with everything included. yeah okay Basically, the If I were to describe this to anybody else, I would say their model is, if you're doing the subscription-based model, they're basically selling you a game that's roughly...
00:51:02
Speaker
roughly their price for the game. Like they're basically giving you the hardware and hoping that you buy the subscription. and so they can make whatever money off that. That's right. If you want, if you want to do the other one, then you can pay a lot more, but you're not like each module is going to be significantly more expensive because you're buying a standalone module.
00:51:23
Speaker
And, and so that, that, Am I understanding that? Yeah. And it's like, I would recommend this to you personally. i recommend it to anyone who else else who puts a big buck hunter in their home is yeah buying an online version. Sure. Play the online content and decide what you think speaks to you and then turn it offline and buy the content you want o a la carte, which we also allow you to do. Right. And then in the future, you can always like,
00:51:53
Speaker
resubscribe, you can unsubscribe. yeah you can yeah you do that so you and you're looking You're looking at this type of thing with video games a lot. You're looking at microtransactions, you're looking at... and some games have been able to bridge that mode successfully without alienating. Pinball's hard, man. It is, yeah. Pinball, man. Pinball drew that line in the sand. They're like, no, dang it. I bought this game. I bought this used game for $4,000 10 years. you know That's a 10-year-old game. And dang it, they should be keep updating it for free.
00:52:25
Speaker
Well, and honestly, my P3, though, has kind of... But it's got the integration with the screen. Like, it's been able to... You can add more content for a little bit more of a cost, sure but it goes back to that whole like it. There is it's software you're buying versus hardware. It's it's hard with pinball like what we what we started with at the very beginning of this episode, as Scott has alluded to with installing the new kit.
00:52:49
Speaker
there're you're expecting people that have a hard time opening the coin door and taking glass off that i'd expect hardware with pinball when it comes to paying more of a price. At but least with toppers, it's literally you stick it on top, you screw two, you know, two, three screws in, plug it in. Yeah, yeah. It's like you're you're done. And so it's like where it pinball definitely has an uphill battle when it comes to DLC and content like that, you know.
00:53:18
Speaker
yeah yeah well and We've learned a lot with you know the the cactus kit, see seeing... the kind of numbers that that we're selling on it and hearing back, you know, whether customers believe it's a good value, whether they believe it should have been $250, whether they believe it should have been free. You know, i've i've heard I've heard all of that different feedback. And it'll be interesting if if there is another update down the line that is less hardware-intensive,
00:53:52
Speaker
What does that mean? you know Out of the $1,250 for the value of that cactus kit, how much of that, if it was a saloon mech that didn't have any rules functionality besides opening and closing, what's that worth?
00:54:06
Speaker
What is all of the content worth that has nothing to do with the hardware? I don't know. and and and And all anyone can do is give their own personal opinion of what you think. To me, I think the software is far more valuable than the hardware in terms of the gameplay experience, but can completely feel that someone having the opposite take is completely reasonable.
00:54:31
Speaker
I will also point out that if anybody is installing the kit and they have questions, you can definitely get ahold of me on Facebook. I can definitely help you out with that, with the the landmines that I ran into because I'm an idiot. So just, I'm going to put a plug in there for it's, I made it more complex than it really should have been.
00:54:52
Speaker
Also flipping out ah with Joel Ingeberth, he did a full install video. awesome His Amazing. His video awesome. The one part that I messed up on is he kind of skipped over the setback part.
00:55:04
Speaker
And so that's that's where i got I got screwed up on. so Okay, so we're running out of time, but I do have one question that is not Cactus Canyon pertained. Josh, it's been two, three years now since we've seen Pulp Fiction. Is there another game in the future coming from the mind of of Josh Sharp and Play Mechanics? Is there something you could wet our whistle with when it comes to that?
00:55:28
Speaker
Of course. they Yeah. Twins 2031. We are in two days. It'll be five years away. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. Yeah. I don't believe you, by the way. You're you're a bald-faced liar, but yes. I don't know.
00:55:47
Speaker
I'm a results-oriented dude, and Pulp Fiction shipped seven years after we started it. So we until proven otherwise, we are one-game-every-seven-years company.
00:56:00
Speaker
yeah I prove me wrong. Yeah. Okay. prove me i You can't, I get it. You just looked at your calendar. You're like Pulp Fiction release this day. So we're good. Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:11
Speaker
yeah Okay. The other, the other obvious questions that people are going to have is I have three CGC games behind me and I have attack from Mars and storage.
00:56:22
Speaker
So, and you started this discussion saying that you were working on different code things. Okay. I, I, for one, I'm going to put a big, I wish and and pray and hope that you are going to continue the upgrades for the other games I have.
00:56:41
Speaker
am am i Is it like a a Dumb and Dumber situation? Like one a million shot? Or do we think we have a better shot of getting those things?
00:56:52
Speaker
I am with you that i also hope. that big As a consumer, I have all of those games, and the outlines for... i mean, ah Lyman and I were obviously... We were working on a Monster Bash update, a Cactus update, a Medieval update, an Attack update, an ACDC update, and he was going to be the...
00:57:18
Speaker
programmer on our game that's coming out in 2031. So we were working on a lot of stuff together for his little side business. So as as many of those things that can see the light of day, knowing that it may take 15, 10, 15, 20 years before all of that can be birthed to the universe, i I will fight as long as it takes to see all of that stuff come to life.
00:57:52
Speaker
Unfortunately, all I can do is I don't, pro you know, i mean this is where it kind of sucks. I'm mostly a cheerleader. So for me, it's trying to motivate the people that can get the work done to want to do it.
00:58:06
Speaker
Let's do it, please. So that's that's where I'm at now I got off the phone with someone who has ah about 40 games, by the way. And that was his number one question is, hey, are we going to see updates for other games? Because he is on board with buying these. So if there is if there's any way that I can help be a cheerleader, I'll put on a skirt. I'll grab some pom-poms. I am happy to push that envelope.
00:58:35
Speaker
You need to start creating like fake email addresses and yeah emailing a CGC of like, man, I enjoy all of your games. You know what I would love to see is a Monster Bash update for the game that would take it to the next level. You know, just start spamming. Yeah.
00:58:51
Speaker
You're talking about, I have their phone number. I call them constantly. Get Jim on the phone and yell at him long enough. He'll make it happen. Yeah. Oh my goodness. There is, there is a an official proposal that CGC had me write up that they, they have our full sort of outline of another project.
00:59:12
Speaker
but that can sit now for years. So it's i've done I've done my part. I was asked to update, you know, polish these. Where is it? I still... i these are These are the notes. This is this is the the folder from Lyman's house with all of our garbage in it. And I was happy to pull out some notes from stuff and get it into a place where I could email the CGC Lords about what I feel would be an excellent update to one of their other games.
00:59:47
Speaker
You know, and actually, I have another question to your 2031 game. yeah With Quentin Tarantino, you kind of had you were kind of handcuffed because he wanted something more eighty s He didn't want ramps. He wanted he wanted that solid-state feel, right?
01:00:03
Speaker
Is your 2031 game going to be more in the modern take of pinball? I feel like we are... overcompensating in a way that is as the, as the financial head of this company is not, not great.
01:00:21
Speaker
I feel like it's going to be very great for pinball enthusiasts and buyers. I got six ramps, six ramps and two under play fields. bar It's actually three games in one. It's, it's a mega wide, we know we're going all out. And it has a VR headset, right? They they got the they got the rights to the pin bar to stick on. There you go. right It's the mega wide pin bar. Yes, the mega wide pin bar. yeah it' the next You know what? ah It's... ah it's It's definitely not Pulp Fiction in terms of aesthetic, but it is it is going to be – it's our own aesthetic. it it It is definitely our own modern take, and it's not going to work for everyone. I know that.
01:01:05
Speaker
But we're going to take a swing. We're going to swing. it's going It's Pinball 3000 VR headset. We're talking. we're We're talking like King, your guys' is King Kong game where you sit inside the car and put the VR on. yeah oh It's augmented reality. know You are going to be the ball. You're going shooting yourself around the pinball machine. Actually, Lyman had a great idea for the Matrix where instead of, and it was never going to work, but it was pretty cool, was ah instead of Playfield Glass,
01:01:38
Speaker
it would be a ah translucent see-through LCD in place of the playfield glass. And you could have all the ones and zeros of stuff. Like all of a sudden, this like you'd just be playing and you think it was normal. And then you would just see, you know, of the the ah the playfield glass just totally get colored in that and then unveil something underneath the playfield when it went away. oh that'd be cool.
01:02:02
Speaker
That's cool. He had a lot of good ideas with that in that brain of his. you Yeah. He was a freaking genius. Yeah. Well, I got to get my butt back to work. We appreciate you coming on, Josh. Um, if you want someone to get ahold of you, what's the best way to get ahold of you?
01:02:17
Speaker
I F P a pinball at gmail.com. Still, still works for the time being. So, uh, hit me up there. I'm pretty, I'm available. Facebook messenger, you know, raw thrills, J sharp at raw thrills.com.
01:02:31
Speaker
You can bug Tim Sexton at play mechanics.com. In my absence, he'll, I'm sure he'll love getting, getting messages from anyone out there. Oh, I don't know if we're letting him eat or not yet. that was Yeah. Yeah.
01:02:44
Speaker
Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. Josh, thank you again for coming on where I am super excited to get, get this. And but I'm not kidding. This has moved up on my pecking order into ah going above medieval madness for how the, the basic fan layout is. And I'm not kidding. When my daughter comes down and says, Hey, I want to play games. She picks two games. She picked three games.
01:03:11
Speaker
Two of them were, were your guys' games. Hey, snow so she, that, that is her gateway. She, she picked a medieval madness. She picked Cactus Canyon and Jurassic park was the other one. So there's something about those games, man. They just, they, they, they tickle, they tickle in a way that works. Yep. You have to have some sort of clear guidance to the ah to the goal. And they're the perfect mix. yeah If you want to get a hold of us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com on all the socials at LoserKidPinball.
01:03:45
Speaker
ah If you want silver ball swag, we still have the baseball jersey, the hockey jersey. It's hockey season. You know you want to look stylish at the game. ah Also... If you want to hit us up about Scott's blasphemous comments that Cactus Canyon's better than Evil Madness, leave it in the comments below and hit a like. Climate agrees. It's true. It's true. Oh, well, I'm in good company then.
01:04:06
Speaker
So, ah yeah. Give us our last word, Scott. You know what? Definitely buy the upgrade upgrade. And if you have to wait for it, it's worth it.
01:04:24
Speaker
you