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Finding Balance In The Beer World
375 Plays3 days ago
Jayne Lewis needs little, if any, introduction to anyone that reads or listens to The Crafty Pint. Following stints at many of the country’s brewing trailblazers, she blazed a trail of her own, creating Two Birds Brewing with mate Dani Allen, together going on to conquer the country’s beer awards while inspiring many other women to follow in their footsteps.
Two years on from leaving Two Birds, she’s been carving out a new path, one focused very much on the human side of the food and drinks industry. Today, she operates Full Colour Life, working with small business owners as well as individuals on everything from business strategy to setting and achieving personal goals.
The wealth of knowledge she brings to the role comes not just from her time as a brewer and business owner, but also from personal experience: succumbing to burnout and a sense of losing agency, before embarking on a mission to rebuild herself and help others do the same.
Given the well-documented issues around burnout, stress and churn in the industry, Jayne is playing – once again – a vitally important role, which she discusses in this episode, along with her experiences as a woman in a male-dominated industry, the remarkable success of the Australian chapter of Pink Boots Society, the importance of allyship, and bobbing like a cork in the ocean – even in the middle of a Melbourne winter.
Last week’s tech gremlins overcome, the show opens with Will and James discussing the ACCC’s decision to oppose MicroStar’s proposed acquisition of Konvoy, ten years (or is it 140?) of Pikes Beer Co in the Clare Valley, the growing number of breweries using silos, and a new video launched by NSW indie suppliers Mogwai Labs, Ryefield Hops and Voyager Craft Malt. Mid-show we also reveal the latest Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month.
If you enjoy the show, please rate and review – and tell your mates!
Start of segments:
- 13:55 – Jayne Lewis – Part 1
- 35:57 – Bluestone Yeast Brewery Of The Month
- 39:34 – Jayne Lewis – Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Technical Apology
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pine podcast. I'm Will. I'm James and yes, back together again, although in a separate place this week. um Partly because I have a sick child to look after at the other other end of the the building, but also, um yeah, we figure this is the the safest approach after last week's technical issues.
00:00:24
Speaker
um So apologies again for no sort of full intro last week. We did start getting rather panicky when we realised that the the intro files were corrupted, given that we'd actually recorded this week's guest prior to that on exactly the same setup.
00:00:39
Speaker
Thankfully, we're pleased to report and that the odd audio wobble apart. um You will get the full ah glory of our chat with Jane Lewis coming up later in the show.
HBA Livestream Success and ACCC Blocking Decision
00:00:48
Speaker
Yes, but in terms of technical issues, fortunately, when we did our HBA live stream last week, we were in the capable hands of Humdinger Studio. yeah They're actual experts in this kind of stuff rather rather than us. So, yeah, thanks to everyone for joining us. It was a lot of fun. Thanks to Ross from Rocky Ridge and as well as Ricky and also the HBA team for allowing us to do it and for Lindsay for joining us as well. It was it was a huge amount of fun.
00:01:12
Speaker
Yep. And if if you missed it live, whether you've got the beers or not, just want to learn a little bit more about some of HPA's um Aussie hops. Four of them have already been named, a couple of, I guess, as yet to be named varieties. You can still jump on our YouTube channel and catch the chat. and you know While it's focused on those beers and um and those hops and and the sort of foods to pair it with, there's also a lot of insight into, um I guess, how those hops are being used and um yeah a lot of stuff around hops and brewing in there as well um i guess away from what we've been doing will um you had another story last week on the accc and their decision on microstar's proposed take over of convoy kegs yes so they have decided to block it which is a rare thing ah it's been a couple of years since the accc have blocked a merger like this uh
00:02:02
Speaker
If you look at the comments, there's brewers that are both, I think, quite joyed by this news and and hesitant or or think it's the wrong decision. um I think it's very much right and C. Obviously, what happens now is if Microsoft slash Kegstar can't buy a Convoy, someone else needs to. There were people who were interested in buying it originally.
00:02:23
Speaker
So potentially they'll come through again or maybe there might be other buyers. It's hard to know. It does keep. I think a lot of people in limbo but from both those companies but also breweries and you can see that some are a bit like, well, concerned about maybe keg supply. But yeah, I mean, the ACCC looked at it and felt that ah having a single keg supply is probably bad for the market and um yeah, believe that someone else will come in and and buy Convoy.
00:02:53
Speaker
I think the probably the most liked comments that we saw in our story on socials were the ones saying maybe the ACCC might like to take a look at some other monopoly or duopoly issues in' there affecting independent brewers as well. So, um yeah, we'll see whether that transpires. But, I mean, this has been, in this case, it's been dragging on for a long time now. It's a number of months since Convoy went into administration. So I'm pretty sure all involved, you know, in any part the industry is keen for a solution sooner rather than later.
00:03:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely, it's unimaginable. I think it's been really tough for the people who work at eat either of those businesses. It's it's a long, drawn-out process. Unfortunately, it was delayed as well because the ACCC has sought staff. So hopefully this at least gives some kind of closure, but we have to wait and see what happens
Pike's Beer Co. Anniversary and Brewing Sustainability
00:03:39
Speaker
next. Yep.
00:03:41
Speaker
Yep, and I guess in more, I guess, wouldn't say positive, but more sort general looking back and looking forward news. and Bryony from Flavologic had a chat with Alester Pike, who's the sixth generation of the Pike family, um who's leading Pike's Beer Co.
00:03:58
Speaker
um If you don't know the Pike's brewing story, his ah would be great, great, great grandfather, I think, started making beer in South Australia 140 years ago nearly.
00:04:10
Speaker
um They rebooted the ah the brewery 10 years ago. think it was actually a bit more than 10 years ago, but they they had their 10th birthday celebrations in the Clare Valley earlier this month. So we invited him to share their 10 lessons from 10 years.
00:04:23
Speaker
um And I think you know they offered bit of ah some good insight there, especially, i guess they were a family that had experience in a bit of a hospital with wine and with booze, but not in beer.
00:04:34
Speaker
um So that was was good to chat to Alistair and also be able to republish a photo of him Rather youth youthful and with an even heartier beer than he has today, pouring beers at one of the very first, if not the first Adelaide Beer and Barbecue Festival when it was back in the cattle shed um back in the early days.
00:04:51
Speaker
um So, yeah, so ah we'll include a link to that in the show notes for sure. Pikes, 10 years going on 150. Exactly. ten years going on a hundred and fifty exactly maybe maybe we Maybe we should have asked him for lessons.
00:05:05
Speaker
yeah yeah we said we just start still reproofing it now And um in other news, um ah recently Grifter, some people will have seen they installed a silo out the front of their brewery, which has managed to get itself a spot on Wikipedia as one of Australia's big things, the the big orange goblin, because they've painted the colour of their their flagship pale ale.
00:05:29
Speaker
And we we thought it would be a good time to chat to them and also Wolf of the Willows about silos, it's it's actually not something we've covered before. Obviously, it has pretty substantial sustainability benefits and and also other benefits as well in terms of labor and work and all those kind of things.
00:05:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, I see we talked about doing this probably two or three years ago, but then it was good to have that that sort of nice, very loud hook there. um yeah you do You do see an increasing number of breweries around the country. um you know it makes sense you know if you're if you're of that scale um to have something like that. So, um yeah, it was great to ah for Jason have a chat to Scott and to...
00:06:06
Speaker
and the guys at Grifter about what what they're doing with theirs. I know Scott said he's always keen to chat to anyone looking to install so one of their own about the lessons they've learned along the way.
00:06:16
Speaker
um you know They've also found that the marketing potential from it. They've even produced postcards, greetings from Robin with their their big big tin at the front of the brewery.
Local Collaboration and Jane Lewis' New Venture
00:06:25
Speaker
Yeah, and sticking on the supply side and and also in terms of sustainability, I spoke to three independent New South Wales suppliers, Mogwai,
00:06:34
Speaker
Labs do yeast, Ryfield hops and Voyager Craft Malt, who have had a fair bit of airtime on the Crafty Bite podcast and and pages recently, um that they've come together to produce a video sort of sharing their stories, which are quite different, but also they are, you know, small operations, New South Wales businesses, and they they sort of want to they they work with some really close breweries that they have really close relationships with. And there's breweries that have come to them really quickly, but they kind of felt now was a good time to sort of, you know, remind people their stories, who they are, the fact that they do invest a lot in quality of their own as well. You know, that like Ryfield is in a sort of a couple of trellises in a paddock and Josh isn't making yeast in his, I don't know, in his garage or anything like that. Like they are serious operators, but on the smaller side of things and,
00:07:25
Speaker
you know, as small businesses, they can work with small breweries in a way that potentially larger suppliers can't always. Yeah, yeah no um when when I called into Ryefield in January this year, um Morgan was working away on their pelletizing machine that they'd installed ah not too long before. And you know they they you know the scale you know pales in comparison with you know the the countries of the world's biggest growers, but it's still a relative substantial operation.
00:07:50
Speaker
um you know And like you say, they are working not on points of difference, but on you know providing high quality goods. And I think you were actually the pretty much the perfect person to do that. I'm not sure how how many panels...
00:08:02
Speaker
you've sort of hosted or presented at industry events with indie producers in the last few years, but it seems to be bit of your speciality that you probably know more independent, you know small indie producers and suppliers across the country than pretty much anyone else, I think.
00:08:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good story. And I'm always really fascinated and we go into it a little bit, but you know how It's so hard when you're in that B2B landscape to, you know, connect with consumers as well. But I actually think, so breweries kind of have to sell that message, but I do think there are people who are really interested to know that, you know, that there's this family hop farms and that if they're in Wollongong drinking beer from Wollongong, that's made with a yeast. I think that there's enough, or we're getting to a point of education where people might want to find that out, but it it kind of requires the brewery to sell that message, but maybe they're only interested in telling their own story. So it gets a little bit complicated.
00:08:53
Speaker
I'm really interested how we can use and tell these stories better. And I think everyone can win by that. Yeah, yeah, for sure. um And I guess on to this week's main guest now, Jane Lewis and will need no introduction or introduction to most listeners or viewers, I'm sure.
00:09:11
Speaker
um You know, she was the Brewed for a number of the country's, I guess, biggest operations for a number of years before her and her friend Danny Allen formed Two Birds Brewing. um I guess this chat very much isn't that. um You know, she she left Two Birds couple of years ago. She's been doing sort of branching off in a new direction, focusing very much on the human side of the booze industry.
00:09:33
Speaker
um And yeah, she did remind me that apparently I had said, we'll get you on as the first guest. um We're a little bit late for that, although I do think now is... a really good time to do it. She's got to the point where she's gone full time into her um new business, Full Color Life, which you can learn all about in the chat. But I think you know she's been through you know a lot some glorious, glorious highs over her time in the beer industry.
00:09:57
Speaker
i think that the last few years have involved a fair bit of struggle, you know not just on a business level, but on a personal level, which she's very open about. I think that's helped sort of take her in this direction that she was already going on within Two Birds within Fermentum.
00:10:10
Speaker
um And yeah, she talks very openly. I think what she's looking to do now is really use her experience to help other small businesses and individuals within businesses, and you know, be happier, I guess, and and find a way through.
00:10:23
Speaker
um And I think, you know, we've we've actually timed the the episode pretty well as well. Is that right, Will? Yes, well, I mean, most importantly of all, this episode's going out on Jane's birthday. Yes, happy birthday, Jane. 21 again.
00:10:38
Speaker
So, yeah, enjoy the chat. I mean, midway through this episode, you'll hear our latest Bluestone Yeats Brewery of the Month segment, um and we'll we'll get into that in a
Engagement and Product Promotions
00:10:47
Speaker
bit. But if you also want to shout out awesome people in the beer industry, don't forget we have our Have You Done a Rowling's segment to enter that you just need to go to craftypint.com slash railings or email us like the last person to submit did you can also do that but there is a form why about having an online form when someone can just email us directly and and rely rely on us remembering for a few weeks time um yeah for sure yeah so it's a really great chat with Jane really enjoyed having having her on um ah so shall we have after the break for now however Will if you enjoy the chat make sure you like subscribe or leave us a comment I
00:11:23
Speaker
I think we've had several comments on YouTube over the whole year we've had a YouTube, but I'm yet to see one on Spotify. And, you know, when I look at these big podcasts, they have constant comments. So if you wanted to leave a comment, that would be incredible.
00:11:36
Speaker
So enjoy the chat. Cheers. Cheers.
00:11:48
Speaker
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00:11:59
Speaker
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00:12:21
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00:13:10
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00:13:16
Speaker
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00:13:34
Speaker
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00:13:47
Speaker
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Jane Lewis' Career Transition and Work-Life Balance
00:13:55
Speaker
Jane, welcome to the Crafty Pine Podcast. Thank you so much. Lovely to be here. Now, a lot of people will know you from your time at Two Birds, but maybe let's start with what you've been up to since you left. It's been two and a half years now since I left ah and started out with Wine and Spirits Education Trust, so working part-time for those guys, business development manager because they launched a new beer course into the market. um So was working with those guys for about a year and then went to Melbourne Royal and was...
00:14:28
Speaker
strategy specialist for them and then finished up sort of September and now rolling into October I have gone full-time with my own business Full Colour Life.
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah Jordan tell us about Full Colour Life then we chatted to you about it I guess in the early stages a while back but it's it's blossomed into into full now yeah so yeah tell us what is Full Colour Life.
00:14:51
Speaker
ah So Full Colour Life for me is all about ah helping people create both ah careers and businesses that are, the way I look at it, is humanly sustainable. So things that people actually go into their businesses, going to their jobs, thriving, not just surviving. So having this idea of, it's all led for me by the idea of happier humans in their workplaces and in their lives. Mm-hmm.
00:15:17
Speaker
And what about, obviously you were a brewer and ran two birds as well with Danny, but, um, you know, a lot of brewers who have left their business have gone into consultancy, but focusing on helping brewers brew different beer, like what led you down this, uh, more human focused pathway?
00:15:33
Speaker
It really got to the stage where at the end of sort of my time at Two Birds because we sold and then I stayed on for two years um and my focus at that time was really on the humans. It was on the people that I was working with. So um working with my team, helping them grow, you know, working on their careers, all of that sort of stuff and that was really the stuff that I was interested in. So i would um glaze over when people would start to talk to me about it. yeast and hops and whatever else.
00:16:05
Speaker
No offence to anyone, but that was just not where my brain was anymore. I sort of moved away from that idea of, you know, the creating and the brewing and I was much more interested in helping the humans to, you know, do what it was that they were meant to be doing within, you know, their their roles, the things when I say meant to be in terms of the things that really they enjoyed and that they loved doing. so helping people with, I guess, job crafting wherever we could, um,
00:16:30
Speaker
helping with career progression, any of those sorts of things, just helping to build these better ah lives for the people that I was working with was the part that I just enjoyed so much that I started kind of growing through that and that was definitely the place where I thought my energy was meant to go.
00:16:47
Speaker
and And how big was is this across the whole of Two Birds Brewing? So every employee within the business, which was what size by then? You had a fair few people working for you. We did. And I guess we grew. And then we also shrunk again as well. So, um you know, san huckcro i pretty common these days. ah um But, you know, I guess at its max, there was sort 20, 25 people. And then, you know, were sort of down to...
00:17:12
Speaker
10 to 15 um so uh yeah look a lot of it was obviously across two birds but then also being in stone and wood i sort of was indirectly helping other um sort of team members and and whatever else so um but really it was kind of my core team of say five or six um who are my brewers logistics all that kind of stuff yeah And what did that look like within 2Bit? Before you sort officially went down the you know the road of what you're doing now, yes what did it look like within the business that you built?
00:17:45
Speaker
Yeah, so it was all about trying to... Actually turned into the person who was like, no, you are not doing those extra hours. No, you will not be doing, you're not going to let that boundary go. Being the reverse part of, you know, the things that I try to convince people to do these days and and the things that the work that I'm doing with people to build their own boundaries and put these things in place. I was doing the sort of the reverse thing back to my staff being like, no, there's no reason for you to hang around until...
00:18:13
Speaker
You know, there's no reason for you to be doing overtime here. Please go home. Go have a life. Be outside of here. Create this whole thing that's not just this place. It shouldn't be that important to you. So um really trying to get people to have full lives where work was just a part of it.
00:18:31
Speaker
And was that sort of inspired by what? you'd found yourself doing over over time as well, yeah, and having that realisation that you need to do it for yourself. Yeah, very much. And I i guess I'd probably been through that to an extent myself where I had – you know, work was everything. The business was everything. My entire identity was tied up in it. um i It was just, you know, an easy way to pass time, so to speak, you know, work for however many hours a day and then I'd go home and be working on my computer for another three hours at at night.
00:19:07
Speaker
um And, you know, it was just a ah ah way where I just got sucked into it and then I had, no availability for friends, my, and, then you know, other relationships, all of that kind of stuff. And wasn't doing anything that brought me joy and wasn't moving, but it was all just very convenient for me to go, oh you know, but the business just needs me. And and it didn't. And i you know, recognizing that, know,
00:19:38
Speaker
ah kind of felt like as well it was happening to me. And so part of it for me was also taking back that control and going, no, this is my decision. I get to choose how this plays out. This is my business last time I checked and I need to make sure that I'm doing this the way I want to be doing it as opposed to feeling like I have to be at the you know the whim, the beck and call of this thing because all that does is create a lot of feelings of resentment um towards this inanimate object that you created. Yeah.
00:20:07
Speaker
So for me it was really about taking control and going, no, these are the things that I want in my life. This is what I want my life to look like and actually actively pursuing all of those things and hence then going, okay, this has had such a positive impact on my life. Hence this is the sort of thing I want to try to instill in the people that work with me and then has become the thing that I guess is the bit that am now aiming to assist people with.
00:20:33
Speaker
And were there big sort of like aha moments for you, yourself in the business? Because yeah I've heard you talk about burnout before and it does sort of these things to creep out up on you sort of to a degree before you realise it, right? Look, probably, yeah. I mean, I don't think I even realised it for a while there. I think I was just, I was numb a lot of the time and I ah can't tell you the exact sort of moments, but I remember feeling like I was sort of just,
00:21:00
Speaker
Everything was happening around me. Everything was happening to me. And I had no free will in this time to make a decision and remember kind of making that choice and it making a huge amount of difference. But, um yeah, I mean, I think throughout those processes you have so many reckonings and so many aha moments and and things that sort of move you in the right in the direction that works for you.
00:21:24
Speaker
And it's never, it's not straight, it's not linear, right? You're like, okay, okay I'll try this. No, that's not for me. Like I did roller derby for for 12 months and, uh, recognize that, uh, the last thing I needed was another thing that spiked my nervous system. Honestly, I was just a nervous wreck for 12 months because my nervous system was just up here. It's heightened all the time. Exactly. Waiting for someone to hit me all the time. And then I stopped doing it and I started doing yoga.
00:21:49
Speaker
I was like, ah, that's what I needed. Not to mention, you know, the funky thumb that I got out of, uh, yeah. Roller Derby as well. Yeah. There you And so was it this sort of thinking that led you to decide to ah walk away from two birds to resign? was it ah Or you kind but have visions already of what full kind of life might be? Or was it more a case of going, i just need to get out of this for me?
00:22:15
Speaker
bit of everything, to be honest. um I've, you know, prior to Two Birds, I was like a three-year-er in my jobs. Like I would stay around for three years, I'd learn all that I could to learn and then i'd be like, all right, okay, i'm done now. It's time to move on. So was at Two Birds for 12 And twelve ah and so I was just at the limit of what I could take out of it. I am the person who does need a bit of a challenge and need to have something else going on. And and so um i think it was partly about needing the new challenge also just about needing something different to do and recognising that that was ah great time in my life. But
00:22:59
Speaker
but It wasn't necessarily so great anymore. But even when that's the case, it doesn't mean you can't move on from it. Like these things are sometimes your life, I just need to close up that particular chapter and I'm ready for this to be to look like something something different.
00:23:14
Speaker
How did you adjust after you'd made that decision and stepped out away from the building for the first time? You would have put so much inside a lot of people. Well, yeah, I can imagine. So, you know, it wasn't just that you built the business, but so much you put into You talk about time, but energy and the creative and the drive and everything like it would have been so much of who you are. And I guess even on top of that, you know, there'd have been the weight I'd imagine of like being put forward as like, hey, here's this amazing woman in the beer industry and having to carry that responsibility as well. And then kind going, nah.
00:23:44
Speaker
taking ah Taking a break. Yeah. Would have been a big adjustment. Huge adjustment. And, um you know, it was a real time of sort of both personal and professional change for me. So it was like nothing in my life looks the same as it did at that moment, like literally nothing. so I've kind of been through a giant rebuild phase, I guess. um But, yeah, the day i left, I cried a lot. And actually when I walked back in after um ah because the building was taken over by Candy Bakery, who were, you know, people, other another business in Botswood,
00:24:14
Speaker
I cried a lot when i went back again. Surely our baking isn't that bad. um ah So, yeah, no, look, it was... It took a while. It took a while to kind of, I sort of, you know, I've always talked about this piece of identity of being Jane from Two Birds and and being sort of tied up in that. So um leaving meant that there was a whole sort of this part of me that I didn't know. um so it was a bit of, you know, rediscovering, working out who the hell I was outside of the brewery and and all of that stuff. Yeah.
00:24:49
Speaker
So how did you do that given Roll the Derby had been tried and ditched already?
00:24:57
Speaker
Honestly, it was just a lot of time alone. Like it was just a lot of time with me um and a lot of time... All of my stuff is around being really purposeful, being deciding what it is that you want and then working out the things that you need to do to get there and just doing those things. And that was effectively what it was. It was like, okay, so this is what I want my life to look like. I want part-time roles so that I can have some money coming in but also so that i can be starting to build this business on the side. Um, and you know, I want to, you know, do yoga regularly. I want to be cooking for myself. I want to be trying to work on X, Y, and Z. So it just became a matter of me going, what does my ideal life look like?
00:25:39
Speaker
What are the things that I can start doing to kind of get me there? So it's very practical and it's literally everything that I do is like, right, where are you now? Where do you want to be? What do we need to do to get you there? That is the formula. Ain't that hard.
00:25:53
Speaker
And Jane, those um conversations of getting from A to B, is that what you were talking with, with those initial clients and people you're having conversations with? Like what what were they sort of like um for you and for them?
00:26:05
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, look, even these are the conversations I was having with my team at the time. It's like, well, what do you want to be doing in your career? What is it that you actually, you know, what excites you? All that sort of stuff. Okay. What are the kind of things that we actually have control over here? What can we do? What are the pathways we can put you through?
00:26:20
Speaker
um So, yeah, 100%, this is the, I guess, the framework for everything. um And so even now it's the kind of stuff that I do with my clients. um And think, you know, a lot of the time we just tread along doing the things that we've always done um and not necessarily putting time, thought or effort into what it could be or should be for us.
00:26:43
Speaker
um So think part of it is literally just putting that time aside and and being able to, put purpose, thought into that kind of stuff. And it just makes such a difference.
00:26:56
Speaker
You know, it's the kind of thing that you can do on your own. But the idea being having someone like me is gets you there faster, makes it easier, all of those kind of things. so it's like, you know, if you...
00:27:07
Speaker
People can do it, take their own little way there or the idea of having any type of support, right? You know, whether or not it's a, I'm certainly not putting myself in the category of, you know, doctor, but the fact that, you know, we all kind of walk around, we all have our teams behind us. We have, you know, these people who support us in in whatever way.
00:27:23
Speaker
um So having that, um you know, being that strategic support for, all right. What do we want to do? And how do I get you out of your head? How do i help you see things in another way? How do we kind of remove any of these sort of blockages, work through any of the shit that you're carrying around that that that might be stopping you?
00:27:43
Speaker
And are people often coming to you and saying, right, things I think things are okay, but i want to move me or my business forward in this sort of manner?
Burnout and Business Strategy
00:27:53
Speaker
are they coming to you?
00:27:54
Speaker
Like you talked about burnout at Grainstock and recently. yeah Are they kind of coming to you and going, ah they think I'm in this state and you know can you help me? you know Yeah, and I guess a lot of it is this isn't on the tra trajectory that I want it to be, whether or not that's career or business um or I'm not happy with X. What are the kind of things that we can do? What can we look at here?
00:28:18
Speaker
And, you know, that might well be also that I'm just feel crappy, I'm struggling here, you know, this is what I need assistance with. it's really the three key pillars that I work on. So is...
00:28:33
Speaker
Business strategy, um career strategy. So for me, that's either job crafting, so the idea of, you know, taking a job that you're already in, looking at the the the levers that you can pull, understanding your own values and strengths and being able to go, let's pull this more, let's see if we can get this to be more like this, less like this, whatever else.
00:28:51
Speaker
um And then leadership as well. So helping people to kind of craft their own authentic leadership around, you know, who they actually want to be as a leader, not who they've been told to be.
00:29:02
Speaker
um Yeah. And then business, whether or not it's what that trajectory is like and what it is, how that's fitting in with their actual lives as well. And with beer, obviously there's the passion side to it, which, which opens people up to, to burn out. Definitely. You've spoken that a lot, but there's also that small business and wearing many hats. Right. And, and I do think people get pulled in certain directions in their business and might be happy with it until they realize they're not. Is it is that part of what you're sort of talking about a lot?
00:29:30
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. ah So that idea that, and I think in business as well, we can get as a small business owner, you get caught up in the day to day and you don't often actually work on the business and then you can turn around in. No idea what you're talking about.
00:29:46
Speaker
turn around in three or six months' time and go, this isn't even vaguely the trajectory I wanted to be on, but I haven't been keeping an eye on things and now I'm here and i am exhausted, i am stretched super thin and don't know what to do and I just need someone to help me get better back on track to even work out what that fucking track might look like, which is, you know, I think half the battle as well. It's like we don't often stop to think and go, what do i what do I actually want to do with this? And so then for me it's all about, okay, so if this is what you want, then these are the things that you need to be focusing on. This is what you need to be keeping your eye on. These are the things that you, you know, if you're not putting your energy here,
00:30:27
Speaker
then you're not putting it in the right place. Like it's somewhere else and you need to be considering how you make that work because you're getting pulled over here to fight fires, which we always, always, always are.
00:30:39
Speaker
um Then, you know, this stuff starts to disappear and that's where it gets a bit dangerous. So very much for that, it's like, okay, what does success look like? Here you go Here's how you're going to know.
00:30:51
Speaker
These are the things that are important to you. Put your energy here and you're on the right direction. And what about if anyone's listening to this or is out there in the beer, you know, or hospital industry, whatever it might be. Yeah, drinks, food and bed. Food and bed. and bed for me. um You know, what's the first step they can take if they either want to be aware, you know, find out whether they are going in the wrong direction or maybe they theyd think,
00:31:14
Speaker
the first signs might be there of being overwhelmed or whatever. What's the first steps people can do short of like, you know, engaging somebody? The things they can do to go, oh, maybe, you know, a bit of self-analysis or what have you. Yeah. ah Look, I think for me it's always sort of it is that having a conversation. place It is um finding someone to talk to. I mean, you know, you guys can attest we were at Grainstock a couple of weekends ago and 80% of the crowd that was in my talk all said that they had had burnout.
00:31:43
Speaker
um And, you know. And the other 20% were shy. all already drunk. um So, you know, I think kind of having, trying to find someone to have these conversations with, to to be able to kind of get an external view. i think, you know, so often you can't see the forest for the trees when you're in it.
00:32:06
Speaker
um So being able to get external points of view. Yeah. is a really helpful way to just kind of go this, because you've gaslighted yourself too, right? Like it's such a common thing that we all do. We convince ourselves that something isn't happening or or whatever else. So often just being able to have those chats makes you go, being able to name it or or whatever else um can be just a really helpful thing.
00:32:30
Speaker
um And just doing nice stuff for yourself. Like that's always a good start as well. it's just working out the thing that makes you happy and, you know, trying to do, our thing that makes you happy and then try to do more of it.
00:32:41
Speaker
So what did you do that made it? Is it yoga? Is that the thing you make sure you do to keep yourself happy or you come up with whole list of things now to keep Jane on track? It's a whole suite.
00:32:54
Speaker
My go-to if I'm really, if my nervous system's really heightened and I'm just stuck in or flight is ocean, swim.
00:33:05
Speaker
Throw myself in the water, you know, that moment when it's just so cold and your brain can't do anything else and, you know, you just sort of everything else drips away and you manage to bring your breath back down and just float. I don't swim. like I'm ah um what they call a cork.
00:33:25
Speaker
so yeah I just bob. And you do this even in the height of winter in the Melbourne Bay or down on the surf coast? Hopefully not in the Maribnall. Not the Maribyrnong. definitely not the Maribyrnong. Williamstown Beach for me. um I swam down at, ah where were we on the weekend? Down at Shoreham. So swam down at the Pines twice on the weekend because...
00:33:46
Speaker
The water's still not overly warm, I wouldn't have thought. No, no. But love that. That's the whole point for me. It's like the, you know, it's just I can't think about anything else. I'm just there physically in my body, you know, detached from anything else that's going on in the world, not thinking about my bills or, you know, any of that kind of stuff. I'm just...
Relaxation Methods and Industry Career Challenges
00:34:06
Speaker
There. And that's the part for me that's sort of the circuit breaker. It brings me back to my body, which is also why yoga for me is so important because anything that can keep you out of here and keep you in here um is the stuff that can really be super, super helpful because...
00:34:23
Speaker
you know, running businesses or having careers where you're really in love with them. You can spend so much time thinking about them and and whatever else. So just trying to put that to one side and putting yourself in situations that require you to do that is important. So sometimes one of the things I love to admit, I love to suggest to people is, um,
00:34:46
Speaker
ah learning something new because sucking at something is the fastest way to get you out of your own head. Honestly, it is. Like being really shit at something is such a good way to break anything that's going on in your brain because all you're trying to do is just focus everything on this one particular scenario. so trying to learn new stuff um is such a good way to get you your own head.
00:35:12
Speaker
Excellent. And so I guess success for Full Colour Life in in five years' time is Williamstown Beach full of brewers just bobbing around. Sure. Exactly. It's so it's my my ah event that I'll pitch for whatever festival it is that's coming up. It's the ah the Brewer's Bob. Yeah, yeah. The Brewer's Bob.
00:35:31
Speaker
but good Good beer weeks back in five years' time. It's an opening event, the Brewer's Bob. Brewer's Bob and Breakfast. Well, was amazing. There was a number of us who ended up at the swimming pool ah in Griffith. You know, not the thing that you would expect us to do, but there was at least seven or eight of us who passed through that at some point in time over there over that weekend. So it's a thing that works for a number of us.
00:35:51
Speaker
Excellent. Great. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. Cheers. Cheers. It's time now to announce the Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month. Bluestone is Australia's leading manufacturer of liquid yeasts, offering brewers a biobank of over 100 strains.
00:36:09
Speaker
Find out more at bluestoneyeast.com.au.
00:36:14
Speaker
James, here we are to discuss another Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month. And this nomination is from a couple of people actually, two locals who want to shout out their brew pub in Brisbane. That's right. And it was great to get this nomination in for the Crafty Monk. Not a brewery that we knew a great deal about beforehand.
00:36:30
Speaker
Since checked in with Jocelyn Erickson, who was a guest on the podcast a few weeks ago, runs Hop On Brewery tours around Brisbane and Southeast Queensland. said she'd been through for the first time not too long ago, spoke very highly the place as well.
00:36:42
Speaker
um Maybe not as highly as these two local fans of of this brew pub in Brisbane's East. um'm Shannon Merchant was one of the people to make a nomination. She tells us that ah since opening its doors in late 2024, Crafty Monk has quickly established itself as a standout in the craft beer scene.
00:37:01
Speaker
ah She said, it's been founded by a small team of passionate brewers and beer enthusias with a lineup that feels both reverent and refreshingly original um according to shannon every poor showcases commitment to quality creativity and community which all sounds great however She also goes on to say that Crafty Monk is more than just great beer, with its welcoming bar and restaurant featuring inviting indoor and outdoor spaces, has become a go-to gathering place for locals and visitors alike, offering a relaxed atmosphere where connection and craft go hand in hand, which sounds like an excellent blueprint for, I think, a community brew pub, think, Will?
00:37:36
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And um Rosemary Turner, maybe she knows, Shanna, because she has some similar things to say say in terms of the space and the vibe of the place. She says that it is a newcomer to Brisbane scene and has been consistent with their beers. Their monastery ale is my favourite.
00:37:52
Speaker
And with a restaurant and bar and now pizza oven, it is the place to be seen, which, you know, people say that craft beer isn't as cool or as trendy as it used to be. But here we are, Crafty Monkey,
00:38:03
Speaker
Eastern suburbs of Brisbane, it's the place to be seen. Yeah, you couldn't couldn't ask for more than that. So no congratulations to the team at The Crafty Monk. We'll put you in touch with Derek and the team at Bluestone Yeast, who I guess as well as supplying yeast and other products, which one of which you'll tell us about shortly, Will.
00:38:21
Speaker
um They just love working with local breweries and trying to tailor solutions to what they need. So they'll be in touch with the with the The Crafty Monk team to provide their prize, which is? Well, as this month's winner, they'll get to score a box of Bluestone's wonderful Zinc Booster from ah Bluestone Yeast Booster Range. It's a cold side edition of sterile zinc that replaces the zinc that's lost in the boil.
00:38:43
Speaker
And as we all know, zinc is essential for optimal yeast health and performance. Yeah, and if anyone wants to know more about Bluestone Yeast and the founder, Derek Lacey, we had him on the podcast, I think it was last year. So you'd able to find that on our and any of the podcast platforms or on the Crafty Pint website as well. um So yeah, thanks to those guys for supporting the Brewery of the Month campaign. If you know any brewery in any part of Australia that you particularly love for whatever reason it might be, get your nominations in at craftypint.com slash Bluestone.
00:39:13
Speaker
And we'll be back with another one before the year's out. Enjoy the rest of the show. Cheers. Cheers. Thanks to our Brewery of the Month partner, Bluestone Yeast. Bluestone provides the highest quality liquid yeasts to many of the best breweries in the country.
00:39:28
Speaker
If you'd like to find out more, visit bluestoneyeast.com.au today.
00:39:35
Speaker
Welcome back. Jane, do you want to take us back in time a bit and tell us a little bit about those early days and working in booze? and You know, you were in brewing, definitely ah in a male, very far more male dominated industry than we've even got today, where it is still very male dominated. What was it like for you?
00:39:53
Speaker
Well, even before I got into, I started in hospital at 17 and then I started my wine making degree when I was 18. um So even pre all of the beer stuff, there's still straight back into into that, which was, it was male dominated, but probably not in the same way.
00:40:13
Speaker
Well, definitely not in the same way that beer was. um So, you know, it's sort of, I haven't known any different, to be honest. Like it's been my entire career. And this was in WA? In WA, yeah. yeah Sorry.
00:40:26
Speaker
ah So, yeah, I was at Curtin Uni studying wine and then worked in wine for three years and then ended up um in brewing when I was 24. Was it cider first? Go now.
00:40:43
Speaker
And was it cider first or beer and cider at the same time? You didn't? ah So i did wine and then I did beer and then the brewery i was working for wanted to bring in a cider and as the ex-winemaker in the group, they got me to do that. um So I did cider for a little bit and then back into beer.
00:41:00
Speaker
back into bi So, yeah, done the gamut. I just need to do spirits. There's still time. There's still time, exactly. and what what What was it like then? you know with Were there many other and women working around when you were in the beer industry or side what it but might have been?
00:41:18
Speaker
When I started in beer, I was aware of one other female brewer. Woman brewer. That was it. That was literally in the entire country i was aware of one other woman brewer.
00:41:32
Speaker
And so very different these days. Thank goodness. There wouldn't be as many brewers full stop. No. But two out of however many it was is still a very small number. It was a very low percentage. Yeah, exactly. So this was definitely a feeling of being very much the...
00:41:47
Speaker
you know, the Lone Ranger, so to speak. um And I remember going to like an early, when I was at Creatures, they flew me over for um one of the AIBA awards dinners.
00:42:01
Speaker
um And I remember being one of the few women who was employed in the industry in that room. There was wives and girlfriends, but very few women who were actually actively engaged in the brewing industry in that particular room at the time. I remember it to be being 90% men and those of us who actually worked in the industry.
00:42:23
Speaker
And you'd have been a lot younger than the vast majority of people in there as well. I remember chatting to Richard Watkins and Tracy, and and past podcast episode he talked about when he first got involved in judging and he he was half, if not less, the age of everyone in there. So you do not just, you know, the male dominated side of things, but age, you know, being so much younger than most people in the room as well, I guess. 100%. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I was my um early 20s, like mid 20s when I started doing a lot of these sorts of things. So, yes, i remember going to that and being, remember, oh, yeah,
00:42:57
Speaker
sitting with a certain individual who owned brewery at the time saying, geez, you scrub up all right, don't you love, for a brewer? And i was just like, great, fantastic. um So luckily enough still there's also less of that these days, which is good.
00:43:12
Speaker
um But, yeah, younger than a lot of other people and, you know, I think when I moved to Melbourne I was 27, 28, something like that. So still... um you know, on the younger end of the spectrum and sort of getting into that head brewing stage and, um you know, being in the rooms. remember being, judging with, my first judging table ever was Rich Watkins, Brad Rogers um and Rob Greenaway from CUB and, I've just forgotten his name.
00:43:42
Speaker
One the dudes from Lyme. um One of the old heads. And just being like, I am so terrified. But imagine there would have been, know, good people out there would have taken taking you under the wing and made sure you were, you know, on the right path. Brad and Rich did do that for me a lot. and um And many of them did, actually. I was really lucky to make, you know, friends with a lot of those guys really early on. and so um So, yeah, I didn't have any great ways of of handling it back then. I would just...
00:44:12
Speaker
try to avoid it or try to ignore it really. Were there points along the journey where you did feel like, oh, things are moving in a better direction or or can you sort of point to them or think about when that happened or are we not in a good enough place?
00:44:26
Speaker
We're in a much, we're in a much, much better place. Like you hear of that a lot less often. Um, and it's, uh, certainly not saying it doesn't exist and, and, um, but yeah,
00:44:37
Speaker
We're so much better off. God, it used to be a sort of a regular occasion for me, but and I don't hear about it sort of a lot through the networks and and whatever else. um But it still exists, very much so so.
Industry Diversity and Communication
00:44:50
Speaker
But I don't have any particular, there's no occasion where I can think of where it sort of you know flipped could have improved sort of through weight of numbers that over time as more women started working a bit beer industry as the you know the craft beer the in the indie set sort of grew then it got to the point where a maybe there a build up in incidences in cases of getting discussed reported going around on the on the network as you as you talk about and then getting to point going okay
00:45:16
Speaker
this has to stop because obviously know we've spoken a number you know, and written a number asked about over the years, the work you've done and others have done was could it be been that the sort way to numbers on the sort of the bad side, but then enough people going, okay, we have to actually stand up now and take a stand and do something about this?
00:45:31
Speaker
I like to think so. um I think it's probably a bit of all of that. It's a bit of sort of education. It's a bit of conversation, um a bit of people understanding what, ah you know, is and isn't okay as the world changes and shifts and and all of that sort of stuff. So um i think all of that has impact on people people understanding that actually, no, that's not all right. And, you know, people finding their voices as well and actually speaking up as opposed to me who was just ignoring it at that particular time as a young person because that's what I had the capability for. And then, you know, as you get older, recognising that that's not going to change anything. So able to then have those conversations and say this isn't okay and all of that sort of stuff definitely has, all has impact for sure. Have you been able to help others sort of coming through in your slipstream with advice? Have you found out other female brewers coming in the industry approaching you and saying either you've helped them respond or come in to you and say, hey, I'm dealing with this.
00:46:37
Speaker
What do I do about it you know Yeah, I don't get as many people as I would like coming to me with ah to have those conversations. um I definitely get a lot of people who say, you know, just having you there, you existing has just been helpful and useful and and all of those sorts of things and, and you know,
00:46:53
Speaker
wreck them recognising that I've been able to have a positive impact on the industry as ah as a whole, um which is obviously a lovely thing to hear. um So, but yes, it's kind of conversations I would love to be having with people is these are the things that I'm coming up up against, how what do you suggest that I sort of handle it?
00:47:13
Speaker
Because one of the things I do focus on these days as well is assertive communication because something I was never very good at. um And so it's the thing that, you know, I think we still need to do so much work on. So as part of a lot of the work that I do, it's also an assertive communication piece.
00:47:29
Speaker
Do you want to talk about that a bit more? Is that like in the workplace, but also at events or or why is that important? Why is that important? um I think, you know, being able to hold your own boundaries, being able to put something across in a way that it gets heard um and in a way that's going to be, you
00:47:49
Speaker
I hate trying to say anti-inflammatory because it's not our job to stop someone else from... Being awful. Yeah, exactly. But the idea that, you know, you want to put something across in a way that's very clear on what it is that you are expecting, what it is that is not okay, and then...
00:48:06
Speaker
um you know, this is what I'm going to do in this particular scenario. So I think being able to have those conversations, being able to say, hey, this is really uncomfortable for me because of X, Y and e And if you continue to do this, then I'm going to leave this conversation. I'm going to give you the opportunity to to change. um But this is the scenario. If you don't do this, I'm going to walk away.
00:48:28
Speaker
And you'd like to think more but more often than not if someone is confronted in an assertive and fair manner, yeah they go, oh, maybe I'm being a dickhead. Yeah. You know, time to rein it in, you know. But if people don't get called out, maybe they don't realise what's happening.
00:48:42
Speaker
Yeah. so A lot of it's learning, isn't it? Right, as well. Yeah. Exactly. Absolutely. It's being able to go, no, this is, that's not okay. And people are going, oh, right, okay, we didn't realise that or or whatever. And then, yeah, hopefully being able to say it in that sort of manner puts people in the best way you know, frame of mind to be able to take that feedback on board. So, yeah, trying to just work out the way to get things across, to get across feedback, to get across, you know, in whatever scenario that be, whether that be in a workplace, um whether that be at an event, any of those sorts of things that um that I think is just so important. And I think, you know,
00:49:19
Speaker
Especially for, I'm going to say it out loud, especially for women, a lot of us are so used to speaking in in, you know, sort of much sort of different tone that even speaking assertively feels aggressive, um which it's not. So that whole idea of, you know, working out where you sit on that pendulum and being able to go, okay, no, this is okay. And when you say it out loud and people are like, oh.
00:49:40
Speaker
That's really quite nice, isn't it? I'm like, join me. It's heaps of fun. And I guess, you know, if you look back over the last 20 years, you come through being a brewer, a business ah ah founder, an owner.
00:49:55
Speaker
You've been central to the rise of the Pink Boot Society, which I believe was one of the biggest chapters anywhere on the planet. i think people couldn't come from other parts of the world and go, I can't believe how... evolved it is and how significant it is over here.
00:50:08
Speaker
And drinks ages for change, obviously now full colour life. Of course, everything you've done, ah the particular things things you look back on that give you the greatest satisfaction. um I will forever be proud of what we did at Two Birds. I think, you know, it did change the landscape. um It did, you know, change people's ideas of what beer and brewing and all those kind of things look like.
00:50:32
Speaker
Starting the chapter of Pink Boots Society is, I think, probably the thing that has maybe the most... wide-ranging impact because of what it meant to women to have this sort of place where they could come and connect and obviously non-binary humans as well.
00:50:51
Speaker
um So, you know, I think Pink Boats probably the thing with the widest-ranging impact and, you know, I was just the person who just said out loud for the to Terry Farrendorf in the US, i was just like, hey,
00:51:05
Speaker
there's no chapter here, you know, what do want to do? And she was like, yep, congratulations. You're the president. I was like, oh, God, what have I done? It's quite remarkable. There's so many brew days taking place around the country, the scholarships, the mentoring program, like it's become such an evolved thing. Was it 10 years-ish, something like that? You know, it's really quite remarkable how much every sort of brewery that hosts an event,
00:51:31
Speaker
is so keen to get the word out, you know, and I don't do it for reflective glory, aren't we good? I think it's just like this, they love it It's a good thing to do. You know, it's become such an awesome networking and community aspect, you know, of the beer industry, I think.
00:51:44
Speaker
And, and the you know, I could never have seen the evolution of it and obviously all I did was sort of ah plant the seed and being able to see it grow under the care of all of the different presidents and obviously all of the different committees and everything that's gone through.
Achievements and Talent Retention Issues
00:51:57
Speaker
um To see what it's evolved into is amazing. So, yeah, being a small part of that is something i I'm immensely proud of and I think something that's just had such wide-ranging positive impact for so many people.
00:52:12
Speaker
Just ah this isn't something I've put down in the sort of the question beforehand. Just wondering, you know, with the success of two two birds, do you think you'd have had the same impact with two birds if you hadn't won so many trophies for your beers?
00:52:26
Speaker
Because I think you sort of came out, think you'd won stuff at Mountain Go and came out and it was just like the sunset and there was just trophy after trophy as well. Do you think that sort of helped, you know, give, helped, you know, the cause, you know, could have been seen, oh, well done, you've, some women have started brewing with a company and it's like, oh, now they're winning all the trophies as well, you know?
00:52:48
Speaker
look i think so. I think, it you know, and it was a really important thing for me as well because I felt like I had to prove so prove myself. I felt like I had to prove that I wasn't just a, um you know.
00:53:01
Speaker
so it's not just a point of difference. We're actually really bloody good. We're actually really bloody good at this. Yeah, exactly. it was to prove that we weren't token, that we weren't just there for to make up the diversity numbers or anything like that, um which was I think also my feeling in the judging space because I got into judging because I was a woman like they literally were like well we need more women and you're here so you know so also trying to prove myself from that perspective as well to prove that I'd actually earned my place in any of these rooms that I was in um was something that was super important so um winning trophies for me was was a huge once I'd done that I literally she was like like I'm done now I don't need to
00:53:40
Speaker
I don't need to prove anything to anybody else. I don't need to prove anything to myself anymore. I'm like, I'm done. um Because I had shown that I make really good beer. um And that was, you know, the part that I needed to do. It's like, you know, I can make good beer. We can do all of these things. And we absolutely own our place here. Yeah.
00:54:02
Speaker
And do you sort of look at the next generation or generations of you know female and non-binary coming through the industry and go, it's in good hands? you Can you sit see future leaders coming through? yeah absolutely. I think it's super bright. There's such amazing people that we have.
00:54:17
Speaker
um within the industry and I think probably my biggest concern is um and I guess kind turns into this burnout piece is the churn and burn part like you know we are seeing a lot of people who come in love the industry um but then find themselves in a position where they're like I just can't do this anymore or I don't love this anymore I don't feel great about this anymore um for whatever sort of reason it is so I think that um there's ah You know, there's a lot of young people coming in but our attrition rate's high. You know, we are. We're we're losing people out the other end and whether they be younger or older and and whatever else, which is um I think one of the sort of the big concerns is how do we keep people in? How do we, you know, this is the whole sustainability piece for me. We at we as an industry won't be sustainable if we can't actually
00:55:06
Speaker
find workplaces where people can hang around for a period of time where they can have the passion but don't have to burn out in order to maintain that and so that they're actually around for longer. They're not, you know, getting to a certain age and then being like, well, I have to go and start in a sales repping role, um you know, shes which is the current sort of trajectory that a lot of people are are on. So I think, yes, we've got really, really bright people in and we always have.
00:55:32
Speaker
But we're not always that great at hanging on to them because of, you know, ah the way the industry is is sort of set up and the way businesses run. So I think that's um one of my big watch outs for where we're all at.
00:55:44
Speaker
Obviously that's a focus for you and for Colour Live. Is there anything you'd love to see the industry do more together or or businesses to, you know, retain these incredible people? Look, I think, you know, it needs to be a cultural shift in terms of, you know, this is what working for us looks like. You know, we we want you to hang around. We want you to have a sustainable career. So these are the things that we want to put in place. This is what we believe should be taking place. These are the ways that we're going to show up and support you. And, you know, we're going to enforce you doing 40 hours a week. We're going to encourage you to do X, Y and Z outside of work. You know, we're going to actually make these things
00:56:22
Speaker
changes as opposed to, you know, of course as a business owner, if someone does more work for you, then you don't need to pay someone else to do it and whatever else. So um part of it comes from the business owner and part of it comes from the individual as well, being able to go, no, this is my boundary and this is what I will work and this is what you're paying me for and hence this. And you know what, I'm going to take my maya my leave and I'm going to, you know, because I hear so many people, oh well, I can't take annual leave because there's no one to cover me.
00:56:51
Speaker
Not your problem. Sorry. it's Like the whole idea of going from both sides to me, it's like, okay, what do the humans need to do to support themselves and what are the businesses need to be doing to support the humans? And so that's really part of why I do what I do is literally this whole idea of I can kind of see the way that things are hitting and I'm going, how do i have the most impact here? What are the things that I can do? And that's why I literally am working with both businesses and individuals because it's the way that I see that I can create the most systemic change in things.
00:57:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think often when you look at some more successful business around the industry, they have people there for a long time time and people want to work there, you know. Yeah. is yeah There's often that commonly common ground there.
00:57:33
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, it needs to to be sustainable from a financial standpoint, but it also needs to sustain be sustainable from a human standpoint. Otherwise, we just lose all these brilliant people and that's going suck.
00:57:47
Speaker
And what else do you think needs to happen to make the beer industry better? I think we're still in, I guess, the diversity space is still that probably allyship piece where, you know, sort of talked about being a woman who has to call out certain behaviour and and whatever else. I think it's probably still one of the pieces that we're looking at is, ah you know, people who aren't under that power and privilege, um you know,
00:58:15
Speaker
ah in sitting below that need to actually be the people who are doing the supporting, saying things out loud, um you know, calling things out as opposed to having that sit with the people who are, you know, in that minority or or whatever else. So I think there's still a space there for men to speak up and to have their own voices, be able to say out loud, hey, these are the things that I see that are not right and, yeah, giving that feedback.
00:58:43
Speaker
um I think there's still a space there. across the society as a whole as well, I'd suggest. 100%, exactly, yeah. It's not necessarily an industry thing. I think that, um yeah, it's definitely a a at a society space at the moment. We can't be leaders though.
00:58:59
Speaker
Exactly, yeah. yeah Great. Well, Jane, thank you so much for joining us. Absolute pleasure. Thank you. It was lovely to chat.
00:59:11
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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01:00:21
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:00:35
Speaker
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01:00:51
Speaker
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