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Episode 003: Graham Cochrane - Creating Compelling Content
172 Plays7 years ago
Graham is an entrepreneur and business coach from Tampa, FL who helps people monetize their passions and ideas and get paid to do what they love. Graham is also the founder of The Recording Revolution.
For the show notes, go to https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-graham-cochrane-episode-3/
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Transcript
Graham Cochran's Business Beginnings
00:00:11
Speaker
It's just fear and insecurity that I'm not good enough. I don't know the right things I don't want to make a mistake and I'm here to just tell you that it's like I'm not that smart and Business is not I'm not I didn't figure this thing out because I'm a genius And it's not luck either. It's like a real simple tried-and-true
00:00:31
Speaker
serving people, creating value, but I do a few simple things every single week that continue to drive the needle forward, and I ignore most information. I ignore most tactics and strategies. I'm not a consumer. Welcome to the Brands That Book Show, where we help creative businesses find more clients and build their brands. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:56
Speaker
Today's guest is Graham Cochran. Graham is an entrepreneur and business coach from Tampa, Florida, who helps people monetize their passions and ideas and get paid to do what they love. Today, Graham shares how creating content helped him build his businesses, tips for creating content of our own and how to turn visitors who consume our content into clients.
Ventures and Creative Background
00:01:19
Speaker
I've been, you know, as soon as I came up with this idea for a podcast, you were one of the guys that I wanted to reach out with and talk to just because I think you have such an incredible story. I mean, you have so much you have so much stuff going on. I mean, with the recording revolution, which this audience might not be particularly familiar with, but you can find a link to that in the show notes. And I encourage everybody to go and check that out.
00:01:41
Speaker
But you have the recording revolution. You're a great musician. You have music on iTunes. You have just started a new business coaching venture where I'm sure taking everything that you've learned over the last couple of years and sharing that with others. Your wife is an incredible entrepreneur as well. I mean, she pretty much started, I think, what we would call this styled stock.
00:02:06
Speaker
photography industry. And so I imagine that just life together is sort of like one big mastermind group. Yeah, exactly. 24-7. And with all of that, and I think you both do this really well, but even with this newest venture you started, and that'll be in the show notes as well, grahamcochran.com,
00:02:27
Speaker
You publish content so consistently, so well, I just think it's so well done. And I think that content is just one of the most important things when it comes to businesses. So with all that said, I'm really excited for this interview.
Recording Revolution Launch
00:02:45
Speaker
And if you could just give us some background about the Recording Revolution and how you got started in this whole entrepreneurship journey.
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, no, I appreciate it. I definitely got into it accidentally. I mean, I wasn't the entrepreneur that was trying to start a business. I lost a job and started a business out of necessity because I couldn't get another job because it was the middle of the recession. So this is back in 2008, right? Yeah, 2009 was when I actually started the Recording Revolution. To be fair, I was always freelance recording and mixing bands.
00:03:23
Speaker
but it was always like side income. So in college and out of college for about three or four years it would be like two nights a week I'd have bands over at our little apartment and then Saturdays I'd record and mix bands. Before Shay and I had kids and it was just kind of fun. There was a lot of people in our town. So I was always freelancing like servicing clients in that realm but I never wanted to go full time with that. I tried that once years ago but I just got, I couldn't handle the lack of stability to be honest with you. So I was like I'll
Transition to Stable Business Model
00:03:52
Speaker
just go get a day job.
00:03:53
Speaker
That was my only experience with business was freelancing on the side. And then in the recession when I lost a job we just moved to Florida to help a bunch of friends of ours start a church down here and I got a new job and then lost that job because the company folded and I was like what am I gonna do? So I was trying to ramp up freelancing and so this is where the recording revolution was birthed. It's like a blog and it's a YouTube channel where I teach people how to record and mix music. But I started a blog just as a way to get more clients
00:04:24
Speaker
Thought you know what if I put content out there if I don't put anything out there No one's gonna know I exist so if I put something out there I have a better chance of somebody finding me and maybe they'll like the music I'm working on with my current clients and And they'll reach out to me and hire me and that was the thought and it did that But it also became its own beast in and of itself where more people were like hey Can you make more content on how to do this or record vocals or guitars? they kept asking me all these more specific questions and I sort of
00:04:53
Speaker
In between clients since I had no day job in between gigs I would shoot some videos write some articles email out get on Twitter and share some stuff and This whole thing just blew up it became very exciting people wanted more and I figured out ways to monetize that the content side of things and That's just become a whole new beast of a business. That's been really fun to learn and to grow
00:05:17
Speaker
So from start to not end because recording revolution is still exists and is still doing well today. But from start to realizing, oh, wow, this is you know, this is a full time. This is now my full time job. About how long was that process?
Struggles and Income Replacement
00:05:35
Speaker
Two years. OK. Two years. Yeah. And it was a painful two years. I mean, we were we were on food stamps for 18 months.
00:05:42
Speaker
Shay was trying to take weddings. I was trying to record bands, but we weren't bringing in nearly enough income We burned through all our savings and so I'm just creating content trying to find a way to monetize it And I started to make a little bit of money But it was in it took 18 months to two years to finally The revenue to hit that point where it was replacing what my previous day job was making so that yeah, it was probably a two-year process and
00:06:05
Speaker
And during that two year process, like, cause you had mentioned that you had given this freelance thing a shot earlier on and it just, it didn't work out and you didn't like the, you know, not having that stability. Um, so at what point did you learn like, or did it become, okay, I'm really trying to build this and do this. And like, were you looking for another job during that time? No, that's the funny thing. I wasn't. Um, I didn't want, I didn't want another job. I hated having a job. I was, I was basically a, uh,
00:06:35
Speaker
entrepreneur that didn't know it yet because I never did well in jobs and I always felt like you know locked in and I wanted to do my own thing and I just didn't realize this was an entrepreneurial spirit. I just wanted to be a rock star is what I thought I wanted to be but it turns out entrepreneurship is almost as fun if not more fun than being a rock star and so I didn't look for a job I try to freelance my way out of it and then when I saw momentum with this blog and with the YouTube videos I
Content Creation Philosophy
00:07:06
Speaker
I thought, man, I know there are people out there that make money blogging. This was 2009, 2010, and that was out there, that people could make a living blogging. I just didn't know how. And so I was like, this is the point of me, only shot to try to figure this out, and if nothing works in at least a year or two, I'll just go get a job. So I tried to figure it out. I wasn't actively looking for a job. So I was actively freelancing and actively trying to build this brand, a recording revolution, to see if I could make it something more than a $500 a month thing.
00:07:35
Speaker
Could I replace my income with that thing? That was my driving goal. What's interesting is that it didn't happen overnight. I'm sure in the midst of that, you probably felt slow going, I would assume, at times. Being on food stamps and this really being
00:07:57
Speaker
at the time, maybe your only source of income. For people out there listening, thinking that things are just going to happen like that. I think when we see people like you who are really successful, we see you from success on and forget like, oh wow, they really hustled and grinded for years to get to that point. And fortunately now, there's people like you who are willing to share your expertise. So maybe it's not quite the hustle
00:08:27
Speaker
It had to be for you for the rest of us. But that's fascinating. As far as content goes, I think one thing that people worry about when they're creating content is giving away too much. As you were creating content for the recording revolution, did that cross your mind? Oh man, people are, they're asking a lot of me right now, where did you draw that line of I can't give away this for free? I think that's a common question.
00:08:57
Speaker
When is too much? And you know what, I tell people that you're thinking backwards. I think if you're afraid of giving too much, you're not gonna win. I think you gotta do the opposite. You gotta give so much that you're really feeling like you're a crazy person. Because content, it's like free marketing. It's your walking advertisement. It's free in the sense it doesn't cost you money. It costs you time and effort, but it will pay dividends. So for example, it's worth
00:09:26
Speaker
making an incredible, in my case, making an incredible video and spending hours to do it once that five years later I will still be getting leads from and revenue from because I made something amazing that's going out in the world and helping people. So I had people from day one telling me I was giving too much content away for free. I remember one month I did a series, I did five minute videos on this topic for every day for the month. So it was 31 videos. It was like two and a half hours of training and I had people literally
00:09:58
Speaker
I just bundled that as a course and sold it instead of giving it all the way on YouTube. And to me is the opposite. I'm able to sell courses because I give so much content away. That's how I've grown so fast and so big is the sheer amount and quality of free stuff that I give away. Otherwise, if I don't give it away, no one will have heard of me.
00:10:19
Speaker
And yeah, and I feel like they don't experience that value, you know, you're offering so much value and the in these, you know, light bulb moments for people. And they've got to wonder, you know, okay, well, this is free stuff. So what does the, you know, paid stuff look like? Absolutely.
Value Circle and Client Loyalty
00:10:35
Speaker
Absolutely. There's something I call the value circle, right? And it's like a simple circle. But this is like the secret sauce of my business. It's like the foundation of the way I think about business because it's so simple. It's you if you have a circle, the very top of the circle is
00:10:49
Speaker
your free offering you have to give first no matter what business you're in whether you sell products like me or services like me I do both but you have to give them a taste of who you are so if it's a if it's a piece of content that's a free offering it could be a blog post it could be a podcast it could be videos it could be social media posts may be very active on social media you're always teaching and giving and helping for free first
00:11:14
Speaker
It could also be like a free consultation or like a free shoot, a free something like you're showing them the goods first where that's, you're transferring risk from them to you. You're saying, look, let me give you something for free and you could take it and run. But that's how you do business is you transfer risk from the potential customer to yourself so they feel real comfortable. So you give first, that's the first part of the value circle and it's gotta be valuable. I think that's another part, we might not wanna skip that. A lot of people give free stuff away but it's just,
00:11:42
Speaker
This is kind of crap, you know, if you think about it or it's just thrown together quickly. You want your free stuff to be really, like, better than other people's paid stuff, you know? Really good. And I think, you know, like, Shay, for instance, does this, you know, really well. She can show us, you know, how to take these beautiful, styled, stocked images, you know, and that certainly does add value. It's nice to be able to know how to do those kinds of things, but at the end of the day, we're going to go to her.
00:12:07
Speaker
Because she you know because she does it so well and she has it just kind of on demand So we're still gonna go to her and buy those things even if she were to show us step by step how to create those images Absolutely, but we're afraid to give because we're afraid if we give the good stuff away or give something good away Then they're not gonna have a reason to buy and I just think it's the opposite
00:12:28
Speaker
If you can get over that fear, giving people are magnetic, they're attractive, their businesses grow, and you're giving someone a taste of like, oh my gosh, this person's amazing, and they will think of you and wanna go deeper with you, and that's the second part of the value circle is making a valuable product or service, which if you're listening, I'm assuming you have, and you're trying to get more people to see the value in that product or service. You gotta start by the free offering, and it always starts with value, and then from there, you wanna over-deliver,
00:12:57
Speaker
And from there that leads to income and referrals. And it goes right back up to the top again of another free offering that's amazing. And it's just a beautiful virtuous cycle that's not centered on you. It's not centered on your business. It's centered on the potential customer or client and just hooking them up from day one. And so this is something that you learned even back, you know, 2009, starting the recording revolution.
Importance of Content Today
00:13:18
Speaker
Do you think that's still relevant today? Do you think content is still, you know, one of the best ways to grow your business today?
00:13:25
Speaker
Even more so today. Even more so, yeah. There's more content than there was. There's always gonna be more. But it's the most important thing you could do for your brand. And you look around like every brand, the Home Depots of the world, like totally different businesses than you. The Home Depots, the Banana Republics, the Apples, whoever it is, they all need content. Because we're always consuming content on our phones or wherever. They need images that are beautiful. They need posts on social media. They need videos.
00:13:54
Speaker
They want to be creating content day one and from day one and always because that's how people see them discover them or remember them or keep them top of mind. So creating valuable content and it doesn't have to be educational stuff like I do. It can be motivational stuff. It can be entertainment. That's content as well. Some of the biggest YouTube platforms is just funny people on YouTube but they are creating content. It could be you know a little taste of the product. I mean it could be anything will taste of the service.
00:14:23
Speaker
But yeah content is the key because otherwise no one's gonna know about you You know and then what people are doing is and I'm not gonna go on a soapbox here But just as another example people are jumping to like Facebook ads to get leads and that's because they don't have a content strategy Like well, I guess I have to buy leads and I'm not saying you shouldn't ever buy leads I'm just saying like it's a lot simpler than that. You don't need to give Facebook your money You need to give people free good content and commit to it
00:14:49
Speaker
and own it and make it valuable and it'll be your own lead generation machine versus having to pay Mark Zuckerberg to get leads. And if you don't have something that's valuable to give away, it doesn't matter how many Facebook ads you run, you know, they're not going to, those leads aren't going to generate into anything. But one thing that you mentioned that I thought was, you know, interesting and maybe something that we should pause and talk about is what we think content is. Because I think people often think, oh, content, you know, he means blogging.
00:15:18
Speaker
and I hate blogging, or blogging's hard because so many people now have blogs. Would you say, what do you think is the most valuable kinds of content that people can be putting out there today? Does it have to be blogging? No, it doesn't have to be
Choosing Content Mediums
00:15:34
Speaker
blogging. I would say do what you like to do, because they're all successful, they're all winning right now. Blogging is, people say blogging is dead, it's not dead. There are some massive blogs just continuously generating
00:15:48
Speaker
Leads and millions of dollars a year through just good old blog posts sure and ironically people who are or they're often blogging that blogging is dead That's the brand of irony of it all. Oh, it's so sad. So blogging is alive and well
00:16:02
Speaker
Podcasting which I thought died in 2006 came back like in 2012 13 14 15. It's alive and well We're doing a podcast right now So if you would rather just get on and talk and share if you're really gifted communicator It might be faster and easier for you to just get a microphone and hit record and go That's us people love podcasting because they're commuting to work and they can just listen to it consume it
00:16:25
Speaker
Video is growing so if you if you're really good on camera if you really connect with people Having that eye that visual eye contact and hearing their voice and seeing their face looking at you can be very powerful but if the video if over is overwhelming to you and It's easier for you to just grab your laptop and go to Starbucks and bang out a post where you don't need lighting You don't need it to be quiet You can do it on a plane then blogging is good or if none of those are good own social media pick one platform
00:16:51
Speaker
and say I'm gonna own Instagram in my niche, or I'm gonna own Facebook, or wherever you are, and then commit to creating content there, because the point isn't the medium, because they're all really working great right now, and we can come up with a million examples of people who are winning in all of those. It's more about what can you commit to consistently, and fits your talents and your workflows. So for me, I do a little bit of all of it,
00:17:17
Speaker
But I found I really – my content also does well on video and I like the videos because I can just hit record and go for like the recording revolution stuff. The video content for my new brand for the business coaching stuff takes a lot more work than the recording revolution stuff for me. Is there a reason that it takes some more work then? Well, I feel mostly because I feel like the concepts are harder to teach.
00:17:41
Speaker
Like on the audio it's very, to me it's like super black or white. Like do this, do that. In business there's a lot more junk I have to get people through. A lot of bad advice, you know, bad tactics and strategies, mindsets, insecurities. So I have to navigate a lot, believe it or not, just to talk about business. So I have to do a lot more time outlining the content and really zeroing in on what am I gonna say and then filming it after lighting and all that kind of stuff.
00:18:11
Speaker
To me, I made that decision because I like to be on camera and I like to communicate that way and I like to consume content that way. But if that's too much of a hassle for you, you could do anyone that fits your skill set and fits what you can commit to regularly because that's the thing that I think people get wrong is they're like, oh, Graham, I don't want to blog all the time every
Consistency in Content Creation
00:18:31
Speaker
day. And I'm like, dude, don't. You don't need to. It doesn't matter how much you make content. It matters. Are you consistent? Will you still be making good content 10 years from now?
00:18:41
Speaker
or not, if you will, you're gonna win. If you're gonna burn out after six months of making an amazing podcast and giving up, then that's not a good strategy. I'd rather you drip it out over once a week or every two weeks, but consistently be able to deliver than just going buck wild and getting overwhelmed.
00:18:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think so much of it is that consistency and persistency in showing up, you know, and doing the work and realizing, you know, as I mentioned earlier, it's not necessarily going to happen overnight. But if you continue to show up and you continue to provide value, you know, wherever that that value is, and through whatever medium, you know, I think eventually people are going to show up and people are going to start listening.
00:19:16
Speaker
But moving moving backwards a little bit so you know especially maybe talking about the recording revolution even now. How do you decide like what kind of content you know to create one thing that I've always been you know so surprised about.
00:19:32
Speaker
I think that a lot of times in business, the assumptions that we make are wrong initially, you know, or they're not as true as we thought they would be. And so, you know, for me, I just found it's been an important skill to develop realizing, okay, this isn't working, why isn't this working, you know, and trying to figure out, okay, what is it that people want to consume? How did you go about doing that so successfully in the Recording Revolution and now successfully in, you know, grahamcocker.com?
00:20:01
Speaker
No, that's a great question. And I think you're right, we're wrong. Our assumptions are generally wrong. So I tell people don't guess, just ask. And so create a culture in the way you run your business where you're always checking in on social media. It could be just an Instagram story post like, hey, I was coaching a client the other day and I was like, just get on Instagram and ask if you could sit down and have coffee with me and ask me one thing that's frustrating you right now, what would you ask me about?
00:20:31
Speaker
We were trying to figure out what kind of content for her to create and So it's just a simple question on social and she'll get all these responses are like oh I really want to know how you do this or what about this or I'm struggling with x y and z and we get Google Doc pages of word for word They're telling you what they want and then what you do is you should go Make content on those topics and when the content comes out people they'll email you and say oh my gosh you read my mind
00:20:55
Speaker
This is exactly what I need and it's because you asked them and they told you and you went and built it for them. So I just, that's sort of the, it's an ongoing thing. It's not like you polled your email list once. It's not like a survey that you do once. It's like a culture of always checking in with them and then always looking if you post social media posts or if you send out emails, which ones get open the most? Which ones get the most engagement? What do people really like? What do they respond to and being aware
00:21:25
Speaker
And then saying, you know, there's a million things like a great content on, but if I just ask people and they tell me what they really want to know or what they really love to consume, don't reinvent the wheel. Just give the people what they want. And you'll probably, over time, this is why making content for a long time helps you, even if you're not doing a lot of training and tutorials like I am. But just being a voice out there for long enough, you start to discover your voice. You start to discover your wheelhouse.
00:21:50
Speaker
You start to discover the few topics or trends or the one thing you said that people are like, man, the way you explain that or your stance on this is so unique. You don't know till you put it out there and then see what comes back. You start to learn yourself, I think, from creating content over time and then you can just kind of dial in from there. So I'm always asking my people to tell me what to make.
00:22:12
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that a lot of people feel like they have to have that kind of stuff figured out before they ever create content. But I love that point that this is the kind of thing that you're going to figure out once you jump in and do, you know, and you might write a couple blog posts thinking that they're going to be hits and they're not. And it's, you know, don't give up then, you know, you figured out part of it. This is what people are not interested in, you know, and make those tweaks and move on.
00:22:35
Speaker
Along the lines of asking, do you have any tips for figuring out? People give you information. They say, oh, I'd love to hear this. I have this question for you. Sometimes I find that some questions, I could answer them, but maybe they're not really in my wheelhouse or they're not really what I want to do. How do we figure out within the answers that we get back where we should focus? Does that make sense? Yeah.
00:23:03
Speaker
If you, like, polled your audience informally to get a feel for what they want right now, service-wise or what they need help with, if you see, you wanna spot trends, right? Because everyone's gonna have a million different things that they want from you. Just like if Apple asked their customers or followers what products they should build, you're gonna get people asking for random stuff. Build a drone, build a, you know, whatever. They're not gonna build everything everyone asks for, but they're gonna look for trends, like, wow, it seems like,
00:23:32
Speaker
over half the people really seem to want a new type of phone. For a while, it was like they want a bigger phone. They want two choices. Whenever they see the trends, we should probably pay attention to the vast majority of people asking about this thing. You want to look for trends.
00:23:52
Speaker
If you see something that's not in your wheelhouse, I would ignore it unless it's the dominating trend. If everyone's asking you for something, you have to pay attention to it. And then if it's not in your wheelhouse, you have to find a way to address it in the sense of like, am I gonna just not cover this or address this? Or can I partner with someone who can strategically address this and we can have a cool partnership? For example, for me, I don't teach
00:24:19
Speaker
my audience in the recording space how to develop themselves as an artist or a band like how to get signed on a record deal or how to get more shows booked or how to get more fan streaming your music that's not really the area of music I focus on but I get those questions a lot because these I'm teaching people how to record their songs and now they really want to grow their their fan base and they're like what do I do next and everyone wants that information but that's not my wheelhouse so I've partnered with
00:24:46
Speaker
Well, it's a guy named Rick Barker. He's Taylor Swift's original manager. Oh, wow. And when she's like rocketed to stardom and he teaches this stuff now, he's really, really smart guy. And we've partnered strategically where he doesn't teach recording stuff to his audience. And I don't teach.
00:25:00
Speaker
Promoting your band to my audience and so we collaborate where it's when it's relevant and he's created some content for my audience It's why don't you just learn from this guy? He got Taylor Swift to the top You know learn from him and then he promotes my stuff to his audience and it's a good partnership So that might be a good way to go if it's what everybody wants and it's not in your wheelhouse But here's the good news if you're creating content create content that you love and
00:25:24
Speaker
as long as it's what other people want. Don't just make what you love and then hope it sticks. You have to know if it's something people want. But if you get a list of half the people want something and you really like to talk about that, then you've found a winner. Give them that kind of content because you're going to be creative and innovative. And that's probably going to attract more like-minded people. And you don't need to be for everyone. You just need to be for the people that really like you and like what you like. But it does start with them first, not with you. You don't want to just blog about what you care about.
00:25:51
Speaker
you wanna blog about what's gonna serve people or podcast or post on social or whatever. Yeah, and so there's some intersection there between the things that you're passionate about and the things that other people are passionate about. And again, I think it's just so important to, as you said, to show up consistently there because it's gonna take some time sometimes to figure that kind of stuff out. And I don't think you need a huge audience in the beginning to grow into a huge audience. If you serve those people well who are showing up,
00:26:21
Speaker
on your blog or your channels. I think that can lead to, that leads to great word of mouth and people saying, oh, you know who knows about this topic, you should go here. They provide some great stuff on their website or their blog or whatever it might be.
00:26:38
Speaker
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00:27:54
Speaker
Whatever it might be. Do you have any tips? I feel like you're publishing videos all the time. Maybe that's because you're on Facebook Live, I see on Instagram Live, and then you have videos that come out on your blog. Generally, corresponding with the video on your blog, you have a written blog post around it.
00:28:18
Speaker
Do you have any tips for generating content so consistently? And it seems like efficiently as well. Yeah, I mean, part of it's an illusion, right? So part of it is the illusion of always creating content. And so I've experimented with that for years. I used to post three times a week for the first four years. And then I dropped that down to two times a week to see if it made any difference. Did traffic fall off? Do people care? Nobody cared or noticed. So I was like, great, that saved me some time.
00:28:48
Speaker
And then I dropped down to one post a week a few months ago for recording Revolution. Same thing to see. Anybody care? Does traffic really dip? Not really much. So sort of the 80 20 rule of like I'm not really losing much, but I'm saving so much more time.
00:29:01
Speaker
So I have found that for me, one time a week is a really great rhythm. Because it feels like every week, Graham's publishing something. Because that's literally what I'm doing. Which is once a week. It's only one piece of content. So like with the new brand, Graham Cock and stuff, I want to teach people everything I know about business for the last almost nine years. But I said I can't make videos all day long. I already have a business that I run called the Recording Revolutions. This is like a second, this is like my passion project of like, I want to make time for this. It's important, but it can't take up all my time. So how can it be efficient?
00:29:31
Speaker
I'm like, well, weekly will be great. So it's really simple. You outline 50 topics. You just go to Starbucks one day, you drink a lot of espresso, and you're like, what's 50 things I could talk about? And there's a year's worth of content, basically, if you're going to do one thing a week. And now I have a list of really, really good stuff that I could pull from at any point. I can always change it up or add something. But I got a running list. That's step one. That way, you're not having to come up with something every week because you waste time doing that.
00:29:58
Speaker
and you're not always in a creative mode to be able to come up with something. So I have to get out of my office, come up with brainstorming ideas, and then I'll make them later. But then for me, I'm a very scheduled person so that I have the freedom to do what I want to do with my life. So every Monday morning at 9 a.m., I come in and make content for Recording Revolution, and I'm done by two in the afternoon. Every Tuesday, now I'm making content for grahamcochran.com, and it's, again, nine to two, and I'm done.
00:30:26
Speaker
And that's where I'm creating the one main piece of content. And I'm usually a week ahead, so something goes live at day two, but I'm a week ahead. But then, once it's out, I'm gonna email it out to my list. I will jump on Instagram Live and just talk about the same things in the video. I'll just highlight one of the points. It'll be a little more casual. Maybe I'll answer some questions. I'll jump on Facebook a couple days later or the next day. But I like Facebook Live and Instagram Live, because I just like to just turn it on and roll and just talk.
00:30:54
Speaker
And it's basically getting the same message for that week out there a couple different ways. It seems like I'm active, it seems like I'm available, but I really don't spend much time on social media or on email or making content. I literally put on the blinders most of the week, but in those five hours on Tuesday, that's what I'm all about, making this really good video for Graham Cochran, and then I forget about it and move on.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel like content has more legs than we think that it's going to have. I think sometimes people publish something to their blog post, to their blog, and then just expect, okay, well, people read that there, so I can't talk about it anywhere else, because then people will just feel like I'm saying the same thing over and over again. And that's very rarely the case. Have you ever had somebody show up on a Facebook Live and be like, dude, you're talking about this again?
00:31:44
Speaker
No, never. And it's funny, Ramit Sethi, talented speaker and author and voice in the entrepreneur space, but he said something that resonated with me a few years ago that like blew my mind. He was talking about this exact thing about like, if I get invited to speak somewhere and I'm talking about a topic that I already have a course on and my book is about and that blog post is about and what if they've heard me talk about that before or previously and he said, man,
00:32:09
Speaker
you should be
00:32:23
Speaker
You know what? I suffered from overpublishing. I published so much content but underpromoted. So I had so much going out but then it got buried in my blog. Nobody knew about it. What a waste. And I'm shifting over the years. I've gone the opposite. Now I make less content, still consistently and I still like weekly, ideally for me.
00:32:42
Speaker
But I'm trying to do a better job of promoting and then I'll dig back an old post and bring it back out and remind people or jump on social and talk about a thing that's still relevant today that I may be posted about four months ago because someone is new and they've never seen it before they've never thought about it before and it's just repurposing content that's still valuable because it's not about old or new it's about is it valuable or not and that's what matters.
00:33:07
Speaker
Yeah, and a lot of especially a lot of the stuff that you're creating, you know, not only for a couple months, but I imagine for a couple years would be would be valuable, especially I mean, some of these principles are things that you learned when you were starting the recording revolution back in 2009 that are probably still as relevant today as they were back then.
00:33:23
Speaker
And then in addition to that, I think for some people, it's a matter of hearing it multiple times through different mediums, said a different way, you know, and so maybe, you know, we're, you know, somebody's listening to one of your videos and it doesn't click then, but they see you on Instagram live. And in a casual way, you've rephrased it a little bit. And then all of a sudden, it clicks.
00:33:42
Speaker
And we found even with photography, there's a couple weddings that we've shot. They're still some of our favorite weddings. They were beautiful weddings, type of clients that we want to work with, type of weddings we want to shoot. And back in 2014, why wouldn't we share that today? It's not like those pictures are any less good than they were back then.
00:34:04
Speaker
I think that's so valuable is that your content has more live time, more life than people generally expect. With that said, do you have a formula that you work on or do you just jump on? Do you make sure you hit different platforms? How does that work? For sharing content? Yeah, for sharing content. You have your main piece of content. What are your primary vehicles for getting that content out there? What are your primary channels?
00:34:33
Speaker
Yeah, so for the recording revolution historically it's been the content goes up in two places it goes up in YouTube because a lot of it's video based and then I embed that obviously in the blog and In the beginning I had written articles and videos and I felt like both were getting traffic I saw over the years that YouTube has become my biggest source of traffic so just by posting the videos every week there and
00:34:58
Speaker
It's almost like a social media platform and people are finding it sharing it. So it kind of is built-in social media over there That's my biggest following is on YouTube for that, but I would every week for that. It's post it on the site Email it to my list, which is something I didn't do for years. I figured they're already on my list I won't bug them They're probably gonna go to the site anyway and check it out because they bookmarked it and they watch it my stuff every day And it turns out people don't go to my site every day They got busy lives and they don't really care about me that much so I realized if I email it out to them even though they're already
00:35:27
Speaker
on my list, they're like, oh my gosh, thank you for sharing. This is a really good post, and it only establishes that relationship. They might become a client or a customer in the future. So sharing with my email list, number one, and then I would put it on Facebook and Twitter was all I've been doing for Recording Revolution. Instagram came along, and that's because it was the age when I started it. It was 2009, and it was just YouTube and Facebook, and then Twitter was really in its infancy then, and I hated Twitter at the time because I didn't get it. But I got on it because that's where everybody was at the time. So those things I hit hard.
00:35:57
Speaker
For the Graham Cochran stuff, I'm still figuring that out. I like Instagram now because it's less crowded and cluttered. And I like, what I love is the stories in Instagram Live because I like talking to people. I love the live aspect. I love how quick and casual it is. So I'm playing with that. But what I don't love is that Instagram Live stories disappear. And so you make the content once and it's gone.
00:36:26
Speaker
and whereas a Facebook Live I could do the same thing and it lives on forever so it has a little more longevity there. So I'm doing both Instagram and Facebook. I kind of decided to not focus on Twitter for this new brand. I thought I would because it's my personal favorite is Twitter but it's just too much for me and it's not really a good use of my time to just spread myself over all these social media platforms. I really should ideally pick one and be there all the time. That makes sense all the time that I have to give but right now it's Instagram and Facebook
00:36:56
Speaker
are where I'm just re-sharing the stuff and just engaging a little bit with them. Yeah, and the nice thing about Instagram and Facebook is that they're integrated pretty well. I mean, obviously, because Facebook owns Instagram and all of that. And I will say about Instagram, one thing that I've liked, and I think it's a relatively new feature, or maybe I just noticed it recently, but on the business accounts, you can save your stories into, and I forget what they're called. Oh, your highlights? Yeah, your highlights, that's right.
00:37:21
Speaker
And so so there they live on a little bit more and you can kind of create different categories of those So we've been getting into that a little bit more and exploring that feature some more just because it like you said it provides a little bit more longevity for For those stories instead of them disappearing after 24 hours Yeah, they don't do that with the live ones though, which they did like they don't do that with the highlight your regular stories Yeah, but maybe they'll change that
00:37:49
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so for video, how did you get comfortable with video? You know, one of the things that I'm, this is one of my goals. I've studied on a couple of different, uh, different episodes now, but one of my goals for the year is to get more comfortable with video. And I feel like that's why I like writing so much is I can go back and I can revise a blog post as many times as, as many times as I want. You're only going to see, you know, what's, what's a pretty polished version. Yes. Whereas with video.
00:38:13
Speaker
You know, I'm like, oh, man, that's not good enough. I look silly there. And then I, you know, I feel like I have to do it all over again. So how did you get so comfortable, you know, talking on video and publishing that and you do it, you know, you do it so well. Oh, no, I would tell anybody. Thank you. I would tell anybody to go to the Recording Revolutions YouTube channel and look for the oldest YouTube videos you can find on that channel. Sort it by date. Go to the oldest one and look at how awful they are. Look at how well the video quality is awful for one. But let's just take quality aside like I soundboard.
00:38:43
Speaker
I look like a deer in the headlights. It's just awful. I'm so awkward on camera back in 2009, early 2010. So you learn it, you get more comfortable. If you think about shooting a video, it is a awkward thing to look at a camera lens and talk to it.
00:39:03
Speaker
It's just strange. You're talking to yourself. There's nothing natural about it. So I don't think there's anyone that comes out of the womb naturally able to get in front of the camera, even if they get it quickly. It's awkward at first. So it's like we were talking about. You have to just do it and make some stupid videos, some ugly videos, some awkward videos.
00:39:21
Speaker
But just be if you're in it to win it for the long term, then you know you're going to get past the awkward phase. You know, if you're if you're not in it to win it for the long term, then you're going to have you're going to be identified as awkward because you're going to stay awkward and then close up shop. So you never get past awkward. So you got to have a long term mentality. You got to commit to regularly doing it and you'll get better and you'll learn pacing. You'll learn.
00:39:44
Speaker
how to interact with people, you'll learn simple things like don't talk to the collective, you talk to the singular, you and the one person who's listening or watching has more impact. You learn some of those things just by like, you know what, that does make more sense if I make it zeroed in and you develop your personality on camera because everyone's different. So that's the other thing too is you might watch someone who's great on camera and they're really funny and they're really witty and they're really bubbly
00:40:11
Speaker
You're like, man, that's not me. You know, I'm more introverted. I'm more serious. And that's okay. The only thing on camera, you do have to pump it up a little bit more, but you don't have to be someone you're not. Because again, you're not trying to attract people that are different in the sense that you want to attract the right person. And some people are attracted to more serious people than they are to the bubbly person. So you can kind of develop your own voice too.
00:40:34
Speaker
And I do feel like there's more out there now to practice and play around. I mean, even the Instagram stories, that's a place that I'm trying to show up a little bit more because like you said, it does disappear after 24 hours. So you get on there, you do your thing, you get great practice, you're getting in front of people. But at the same time, it does, it fades away. And then you got a brand new slate the next day. That's a great point.
00:40:56
Speaker
So, there is, and technology, it's just easier, I think, to make video than it was, you know, even five years ago. You know, you have, you can make it with your phone and you can still have a quality video. Absolutely.
00:41:10
Speaker
So one of the big things that I want to talk to you about is transitioning from creating this content that people are consuming for free to getting paid, whether it's somebody booking your service or buying a product or whatever it looks like.
Building an Email List
00:41:26
Speaker
Do you have any tips for getting people to start buying from you? Yeah, I mean, it depends on what you sell in a lot of ways because the method will be a little different
00:41:40
Speaker
But one thing I think is consistent for all people product or service or whatever you offer is is don't underestimate the power of your email list. I think that email gets underplayed in this age of social media of like oh you know you've got to have a big Instagram following to grow your business. It's a big email list big email list because Instagram is just like Facebook same company right. They can change the algorithms and they do and they did again this year.
00:42:10
Speaker
So your posts will show up in fewer and fewer people's feeds if Zuckerberg and company decide that's what they want to do. You don't have control over actually the audience that you've built there. So you could build 100,000 followers on Instagram and then next year lose access to interact with them based off of a company's change in policy. And that's their prerogative because it's their land you're playing in. Or they'll start to make Instagram like Facebook, well pay us, we'll boost your Instagram posts so then people will see your stuff.
00:42:40
Speaker
When that happened, Facebook, it just proved for me, my web traffic cut in half. I wasn't doing ads or anything, I was just posting my stuff there, but now three to 10% of my followers see my stuff. Even if they've liked your Facebook. Email, on the other hand. Oh yeah, I have 100,000 followers on Facebook, and most of them will never see what I post, just because the rules changed. They're like, did you stop posting? I'm like, no, it's just Facebook. And I'm not gonna pay Facebook. I don't wanna play that game, because I just feel like it's, but I'm not mad at them, it's a business. But they're a playground.
00:43:10
Speaker
So if you build your business on social media, just know you're building it on someone else's playground. If you build your email list, however, you own that list. It's your playground. You can email them directly in their inbox whenever you want, even if Facebook closes its doors, even if no one's on Instagram in 10 years and they're all moved to something else. Email has been here the longest and continues to be used and is the most effective way to reach out to people. So the mistake a lot of business owners make is they focus on a social media following
00:43:38
Speaker
without focusing on building their email list when that's where your clients are going to come from. It's not that you don't want to do social media. It's helpful in branding and being top of mind, but use social media only as a means, I think, to get people on your email list.
00:43:53
Speaker
because that's where you can then the moment you got a discount on your service or you got you're doing new types of you in fall mini sessions or you've got whatever you want to promote you can quick email. Hey just letting everybody know and we're doing this this fall we've got these many openings for weddings. Instantly you can show up in thousands of people's inbox and like oh yeah that's great. So I would say start by building your email list.
00:44:15
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And I think especially people that do something like wedding photography where there's a shorter time that you can nurture those people on your email list before they buy. Because you can't spend, if we're selling a website, for instance, if somebody signs up to our email list, I might spend two years nurturing them before they ever purchase something from me.
00:44:40
Speaker
With weddings, it's a little different because you can't spend two years, the person's already gonna be married by then. But, I mean, think about a contact form, and really what you're trying to do is get their email. And so if you're offering somebody something that's valuable to them as they're getting ready to get married, or as they're in that process, they just got engaged, and you can get their email address, then all of a sudden you can follow up with them and say, hey, I noticed you downloaded that, are you planning your wedding, are you looking for a photographer, are you looking for a planner, can I,
00:45:10
Speaker
Can I help in any way? And so I think it's still an effective strategy for somebody who's dealing with maybe a shorter sales cycle, so to speak, but especially for somebody who is a family photographer and people are going to be wanting, you know, Christmas mini sessions for their, you know, pictures for their Christmas card every single year for sure.
00:45:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean think about I think about other when I try to think about how this would work for my business I try to think about other Industries that are totally different than mine. So I'm thinking about like like a realtor. Let's say I'm a realtor and I need more clients One way to get more clients and I've seen smart realtors do things like this is you build a website where you start to create content?
00:45:56
Speaker
on the housing market, trends, how to sell your home, buy your home, get your home ready to sell, but you have a clear on your website, you have a clear offer like download this free guide to learn how to sell your next home or sell your home for 20% more than the average sale price. This is something free and valuable to someone who's looking to sell their home and hire a realtor, they may not hire you
00:46:21
Speaker
But they're going to download your guide to learn how to sell their house for 20 percent more. They're going to read it. If it's good, they're going to be like, dude, that guy was legit. And it's they can take it and technically go hire another realtor to sell their house. That's the transfer of risk you're giving first. But who do you think they're going to want to hire if they really need to pick somebody, some other realtor that they don't really know or someone who's already given them five steps to sell their house for 20 percent more? They they have trust.
00:46:49
Speaker
with that guy that gave them the guide or that gal. So they're gonna probably wanna hire that person. And that's how, if you're listening to this, that's how I would say to think is what does my target customer, my ideal client want that I could give them for free right now that would establish trust, they would download it in a heartbeat, and they would exchange their email address for it. That way, at the very least, I'm building goodwill, adding value, but now I can contact them, like you said, whenever there's something new I wanna offer.
Clear Call to Action
00:47:18
Speaker
And one thing I do want to talk about kind of along these lines that I think you do really well on your website and in general is your call to action. Especially when creating content, again, just kind of this expectation that we're going to put something up, it's going to be on our blog, a bunch of people are going to go read it, and then they're just going to know, oh, I need to reach out to that person or I need to do this.
00:47:43
Speaker
And I think we forget, people need to know exactly what the next step is that they should take. If we go on your website, we're going to see your free audio training. And it's going to be very clear that this is where we're being directed. What are some things that you think about as you're creating a call to action for your audience?
00:48:08
Speaker
Yeah you're absolutely right David you have to give them a next step and I missed this for about four years I would make content and then just end like then that's how you record vocals goodbye I didn't even ask for a comment I just was like I'm the teacher and now you've learned it again I'm a slow learner but I'm getting better but the call to action so important because after the end of a piece of content even if it's just an encouraging post on social you want to
00:48:32
Speaker
Engage them, you wanna get a relationship going and you could ask them to comment, hey, let me know your thoughts, what do you think about this? That would be a simple call to action. Leave a comment below, let me know what's the number one thing that you struggle with as it relates to losing weight or getting ready for your wedding or whatever it is. You can ask them to engage with a comment. But what really is gonna drive your business is get them on your email list. So most of my content that goes out there, I'm always ending with
00:49:00
Speaker
It just gave you something valuable. Let me give you something else valuable. If you like this, you know, so if I'm doing a video on Graham Cochran dot com is a great example and I'm teaching you how to get more traffic to your website. At the end of that video, I might say, look,
00:49:17
Speaker
Not only do you need more traffic to your website, but you're probably going to try to want to be able to monetize that traffic and turn them into customers or clients when they get there. And how do you do that? How do you monetize your thing? Well, let's go a little bit further. Let me give you my free audio training called get paid to do what you love. And in this training, I'm going to walk you through the three steps to turn your ideas and knowledge and what you love to do into a monetized business. And it's free. It's 45 minutes. Download it here.
00:49:40
Speaker
And so I'm offering them another valuable thing. That's the call to action is, let me give you something else. Why don't you take this thing? But to get that thing, they have to just enter their email address. So it's another step in the relationship. So always content needs to have a purpose. And it's the first purpose should be to serve and to add value. And then it should end with a purpose, which is to get people to go deeper with you in the relationship, give them the opportunity.
00:50:08
Speaker
And I didn't take that opportunity for years. I've got hundreds of videos on YouTube that are great, but they don't have any call to action. It's only in the last few years that I got better at that. But that's how I built my email list even bigger and that's how I built revenue even bigger. So I would say, yeah, definitely give something more valuable. And if you don't know what to give, think about just like read one of your blog posts or listen to a podcast of your own and say,
00:50:29
Speaker
What would be something cool I could naturally give to them at the end of this specific episode or this article that would take them deeper and it might give you an idea of what kind of content you could offer for free. As you started to add called actions to the end of your different pieces of content, what effect did that have on your business?
00:50:49
Speaker
Last year, 2017, I really got even more intentional in my call to actions. I used to be like a generic, you know, join my email list, you know, if you want to know more, I get my best stuff. I turned it from generic that to I created a bunch of different free valuable things that were more relevant to the video and say, hey, why don't you download this if you want to go deeper with this. I quadrupled my opt-in rate. A few months, it was five times the normal amount of people who were opting in, which means my list grew substantially very quickly.
00:51:18
Speaker
and then that gets more people through my sequence where I'm able to offer them courses and trainings and stuff and sales. So it's been night and day because if you think about it, if you are so lucky, it's a quote from me, if you're so lucky that someone's watching your video or reading your article or listening to your podcast, then they clearly like what you're doing.
00:51:42
Speaker
So don't just stop. Give them something else to go deeper that's free. Don't say, like, if you like this article, why don't you buy my thing? I don't think selling works really well in a blog post. I don't think selling works really well in a video like a YouTube video. They're not in the mindset to buy. They're in the mindset to learn and enjoy and consume. So selling works better, I think, in email. Yeah. So get them on your email list by offering them something new and just get that process going.
00:52:09
Speaker
And I think that makes sense too. In a blog post, a blog post might be the first time they ever hear of you. Or they might still be getting to know you or becoming familiar. I think it's often compared to dating. And that would be early on in the relationship. But it makes sense. When somebody's ready to give you their email address,
00:52:30
Speaker
At that point, they know you and they trust you. They've most likely consumed something from you that has been valuable for them already. They trust you a little bit more. I love what you're saying there about a call to action being relevant to that stage of a relationship that you're in with that person. That's why on the homepage, it's maybe not necessarily the best place to say, hey, book me now.
00:52:59
Speaker
That's probably because when somebody lands in your homepage, especially for the first time and they're just getting a sense of what you do and what you have to offer, it makes more sense to give them an awesome audio training, telling them how they can get paid to do what they love. Absolutely. I mean, think about it. People, the average attention span when they land on your website, if you're lucky enough that someone gets to your website, again, if you're lucky enough that they get there, they're gone in less than five seconds on average.
00:53:27
Speaker
You gotta be very strategic. What are you gonna show them? What are they gonna read at the very top? You know, you're not gonna wanna talk about yourself. You're not gonna say, follow me on Instagram. You're missing an opportunity if you don't have a giant, amazing, benefit-driven headline at the top, offering them something valuable for free. Give me your email address and I'll send this guide to you, a free consultation, whatever, right away. That's your best chance. And that's what your website should exist to do, is to capture email addresses. Because then, and only then can you
00:53:56
Speaker
let them know about other great blog posts you have or other podcasts or eventually services and products. So this is, I look at so many people's websites and they're like a one giant business card. It's like a giant digital business card and it looks beautiful but it's not functional the way it should be. The most important function of the website for a brand is to capture an email address. And if you don't believe me, go to Home Depot, go to Banana Republic, go to any major retailer or wherever you like to buy stuff and see what little thing pops up
00:54:27
Speaker
What do they want? They don't pop up and say, follow us on Facebook. They pop up and say, get 10% off your first order by entering your email address. Everybody wants an email address because they know that that's the most important thing, because I'm not going to go back to Banana Republic, but then I'm going to get their emails every week. President's Day sale on, you know, khakis. It's like, oh, okay. They can stay in touch with me now because they have my email address. And I don't even remember when they got it, but it was probably something valuable that gave me like a discount.
00:54:53
Speaker
or something. I think it's a giant missed opportunity for brands is misuse of their website.
00:55:13
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure, you know, and they push it. And so, you know, like you said, I think if you just look around, there's a reason why all these companies are collecting your email address. And before that, they were collecting your physical address. Yes, because direct mail, believe it or not, was an effective way of selling things to people. And now that's, you know, I think the next step of that was, you know, email, that's still what we see.
00:55:37
Speaker
And I do, I think that there's also people out there saying email lists are dying and stuff like that, but I don't think that's the case. Just like people blogging about, blogging being dead. All right, so it's been awesome chatting. I know that people are gonna listen to this and they're gonna want to know more and what you have to offer on grahamcochran.com. Where can people learn more? Where should people connect with you?
00:56:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I would say go to go to the site graham Cochran calm and here's your call to action. Download my free training. Get paid to do what you love. I think if you're brand new to business, this is going to show you the the fastest way to transition or pivot from where you are. Maybe it's a job you hate. Maybe it's a business that's not getting off the ground into a thriving business. It's not going to be fast necessarily. It's not going to be easy, but it's very simple. It's three steps to pivot.
00:56:34
Speaker
And then if you're already in a business, it's gonna sort of show you the core model. Because here's where I think people will go wrong, Davey. There's so many tactics and strategies and we're consuming so much information about business that we do all the things. And we don't really know what is really the most strategic thing underneath it. And the good thing is that business is very simple. And so in this training, I break down the three things that really drive all business, no matter what you decorate it with or make it look like. And so it might be a helpful refresher for people.
00:57:01
Speaker
And it's a simple 45-minute podcast they can download and just get cracking. Yeah, and so real quick, one thing I do want to ask you about is that I think it's really like your latest piece of content that you've been creating about what you're consuming and how much you're consuming content.
Limiting Information for Focus
00:57:17
Speaker
I love that. It really resonated with me, partly because I'm an over-consumer of information. I love reading. I love learning for learning's sake. I just like to learn new things.
00:57:26
Speaker
to a certain extent that's what inspires me and gets me going and and whatnot but at the same time the downside is is I have a tendency to go from like project to project or you know slam things onto my to-do list because I'm I'm just consuming so much information unfortunately
00:57:42
Speaker
I have a wife who is much, she's much better at filtering, you know, the content that she needs now, you know, and keeping me on track on the idea, you know, on an idea and completing a project before, you know, moving on to another project. So could you talk about that a little bit, you know, just like how much content somebody somebody consumes, or should be consuming? Yeah, I mean, I'm with you. I'm a lifelong learner, if I could do nothing but
00:58:10
Speaker
Whatever I want to do all day, I don't want to read books all day long. Information is powerful, but there's a point where most people are bloated and overstuffed with information and they're not actually doing a lot of production. Business only happens when you do stuff. You don't need to know much to be successful in business. There's only a few things you need to know, but you need to do a lot of the right things. Herbert Simon is this Nobel Prize winner, brilliant thinker. He has this amazing quote that always blows my mind. He says that what
00:58:39
Speaker
information consumes is rather obvious. Information consumes attention. Hence, a wealth of information creates a poverty of attention. And that's the era we live in. If you have tons of information at your fingertips on your phone or your computer, and if you're consuming tons of information, then you have a
00:58:58
Speaker
void of attention and you need to have attention and focus to actually create massive output in your business and life. So I think a lot of people, I think social media is part of the problem but we willingly just consume or we buy all the courses or go to all the webinars or all the conferences and I'm not knocking any of those things but if that's all you do or 80% of what you do and then you have a hard time like getting the business off the ground, you might want to look at your lack of attention is because you're consuming so much. You have a wealth of information.
00:59:28
Speaker
And it's, I think underneath all that, and we can talk about this on another day. Underneath all of that consuming of information is just fear and insecurity. That I'm not good enough, I don't know the right things, I don't want to make a mistake. And I'm here to just tell you that it's, I'm not that smart. And business is not, I'm not, I didn't figure this thing out because I'm a genius. And it's not luck either. It's like a real simple tried and true
00:59:55
Speaker
serving people, creating value, but I do a few simple things every single week that continue to drive the needle forward and I ignore most information, I ignore most tactics and strategies. I'm not completely unaware, I just know that I don't need them to drive sales. When you find something that works, just do a lot of it and protect the attention and focus that you have. Don't let it be consumed by all the information available to you.
01:00:20
Speaker
Yeah, and I think you're such a great example of that, showing up, creating consistent value for your audience, and then repeat. And I think we met at a business retreat where we were all kind of sharing different stuff that were our strong suits. And I remember you were one of the highlights of that business retreat, certainly for me, in what you were teaching. You were talking a lot about email lists then.
01:00:48
Speaker
And then I know you spoke at creative at heart this past conference and and I know that you were the talk of you know that conference for a lot of people and you know how How much they enjoyed your your talk then and you're back at creative at heart this year
01:01:03
Speaker
Yes, they let me come back as a keynote this time. I think that's a testament to how many people enjoyed your breakout session, that now you're back as a keynote, but I remember people filtering out of that and really enjoying that.
01:01:20
Speaker
So, we have your website, downloading that free audio training. You're on Instagram and Facebook, for sure. Is there anywhere else, or have I covered everything there? No, that's it, yeah. On social, it's at The Graham Cochran for Instagram and Facebook.
01:01:35
Speaker
Okay, perfect. Well, at some point, we're going to have to have Shay on here for sure. And maybe both of you have all of the videos that you guys are doing together. But I encourage everybody to go to grahamcochran.com, download that free audio training. And I think really regardless of where you are in your business that you're going to find value there. So I encourage you to do that. And you can find all this stuff in the show notes. Thanks for having me. Awesome. Yeah, thanks for having me.
01:02:06
Speaker
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