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Episode 240 - The Importance of Copy that Sells
371 Plays1 month ago
In a world where a new AI tool seems to be popping up every day, copy and the ability to sell and tell stories that connect are becoming all the more important. Lauren shared a few super helpful tips in this episode that I think all business owners can quickly apply to their own websites.
Links and resources can be found in the show notes. Check ’em out at https://daveyandkrista.com/importance-copy-that-sells-btb240/. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review over at Apple Podcasts.
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Transcript
Starting a Business: Goals over Competitors
00:00:00
Speaker
Don't look right away at the competitors because I think that ends up just stuck in your mind. Even for us, it's kind of like a step two or three. We first look and listen and just pretend like we're the only like service provider in the world. What are our goals? What do you want like your lifestyle to be like with this business? What are the actual like numbers you need to be making? What are the values that need to be represented here?
Introduction to the Hosts and Show
00:00:22
Speaker
And just right from that,
00:00:25
Speaker
You're listening to The Brands That Book Show, a podcast for creative entrepreneurs who want practical tips and strategies to build engaging brands and craft high converting websites. We're your hosts, Davey and Krista, co-founders of a brand and website design agency specializing in visual brand design and show it websites. You're listening to The Brands That Book Show.
Lauren's Expertise and Tips for Business Owners
00:00:48
Speaker
In today's episode, I'm chatting with copywriter Lauren of Salted Pages about the importance of copy that sells. Lauren has spent nearly a decade working with the brands from Alaska to the Mafi Coast, over 450 and fifty in counting. With conversion-focused website copy, has SEO blog posts, and brand messaging, her content increases search engine traffic and conversion rates to help you stand out in a sea of competition.
00:01:11
Speaker
When she's not tucked away at her keyboard, you can often find her traveling, practicing yoga, and trying out the flavors of local vegetarian restaurants. And in a world where new AI tools seem to be popping up on the daily, copy and the ability to sell and tell stories that connect are becoming all the more important. Lauren shared a few super helpful tips in this episode that I think business owners can quickly apply to their own websites, and I'm really excited for you to hear them. So now, on to the episode.
Lauren's Journey from Journalism to SEO Copywriting
00:01:38
Speaker
Lauren, I am so excited to be chatting with you today. I feel like we've known of you for a while. I think this is our first time actually chatting in person. Somehow. ah and Yeah. And you are a copywriter and I'd love to learn a little bit more about your story and how you got into copywriting. Yes. Oh my goodness. Thank you for having me here. And I feel like the dog is somewhere in the background hiding. She's like literally incognito right there. I am a copywriter, but we also help with the SEO side of things, which means that our words sound good, but rank well too. In terms of the story of how it all began, I did study journalism. So from the get-go, like as a kid, I remember, because I'm like, second, third, or fourth grade, like one of those. And we had to write this little kind of story, like it let's say a book ended and you're writing kind of the, just like what might happen after that, almost like another chapter. And so we all have the same assignment, but the teacher asked me to come in and read that out loud to the class. And I remember being so nervous and like, y v But I'd say that was one of the first signs that there was something in the writing area that was a good fit for me. So fast forward, did go on to get a bachelor's degree in journalism and started working part-time for other small businesses. I was doing everything from social media management to blog writing, and then of course fell into website copywriting. And it was like, wow, there is just so much artistry and talent here. like I admire so many of these creatives. like I can't even write well in cursive.
00:03:02
Speaker
So for me, when I see someone who's visually talented and then I can use words to match that, it's just like heaven for me. So yeah, graduated from school, got a full-time job as a marketing director at a chamber of commerce. I only built up my business on the side until, you know,
The Impact of Strategic SEO on Business Success
00:03:18
Speaker
I quit that. And now it's been, is it five and a half years, whole time now? It's all the pages and it's been a beautiful ride.
00:03:26
Speaker
Oh, congratulations. That's exciting. I feel like it's a huge milestone to hit that five year mark. I know like went by so fast. I'm like, let's get another five and another five. like i could I could do this forever, which is a good sign.
00:03:37
Speaker
I also love that you specialize in copy like from the SEO perspective because I feel like that's unique. It's so needed. And I think that when we see websites that are just kind of lackluster, a lot of times it's because they're lacking the great words. And so many copywriters just don't know how to write copy that converts, that sells. How did you get into that kind of specialization for SEO, for conversion copywriting?
00:04:02
Speaker
That's a great question. So early on, I think I just ended up with an assignment where SEO was a critical piece and it just clicked. like There's a part of my mind where like it really enjoyed being able to turn off a little bit of the creative side and focus more on like the data and the what and the how and actually see results from the words. It's one thing to be able to like write something beautiful, but it was another thing to start seeing the charts just tick up and for my clients to say, I got my first inquiry from Google, every other inquiry I had to go out and like knock on a door, you know what I mean? Like be on Instagram posting all the time. And so to see those kind of results, I was like, okay, this is where I want to be. So I think that probably almost 10 years ago now, maybe nine years ago, that first assignment to now, you know, it's just been a matter of really making sure we know the latest practices, seeing how the algorithms are changing.
00:04:53
Speaker
And also just writing content we know is going to be high quality, right? Like you can't really rank unless once you open that page, there's something like interesting there that is answering the searches question.
Balancing Creativity and Strategy in Copywriting
00:05:07
Speaker
And so that's something we're mindful of from the get go. So yeah, that's kind of how we got into it just from one assignment into another and I just a love for seeing those results and helping our clients change their numbers.
00:05:19
Speaker
Would you say that that love of like writing is just as important as the strategic aspect? Or would you say that one is more important than the other? Like if you had to weigh them? you know um I would say you do need both because if it's not strategic, like you can make anything sound beautiful, but are you saying or communicating what you need to? I think that's kind of the secret of it. Like we see a lot of people like DIY their websites or use chat GPT and sometimes it does work out really well. And the kind of secret I think is when they focus on themselves and what makes their own business and their own brand you unique.
00:06:00
Speaker
But the issues we see a lot of times are like they might bury the lead. So they just are writing and talking about things, but they're kind of hiding what it really is. You have to get to the bottom of the page to see what the feature or the offer even is or vice versa. They just jump in and they're like, save $100 with this. and it's like wo I don't feel connected to you yet. I don't know who you are yet. So anyways, I would say you do need, you do need both. Cause if you're all just, you know, the tactics, but you can't write in a way that doesn't stop people in their tracks in a bad way, then that's not going to work. But if you write really well, but don't have this strategy behind it and the, I always tell my clients like, what are we trying to say here? Like we need to be intentional. We're not just going to put words on a page to put words on a page. So very much, uh, maybe a 50 50 ratio or like, uh,
00:06:44
Speaker
65% good writing and then the other would be yeah the strategy. so Do you feel like you have to do a lot of research to get to know your clients to be able to speak to those unique aspects? kind of i mean I would guess your journalism background would be a huge benefit for that. Yeah, absolutely. that and I moved a lot as a kid, so I always had to pretend like I know you guys and I know what you're talking about. So I learned to very much just observe it and to witness and yeah blend in with the crowd and then figure out how I was going to stand out from that. And so with my clients, absolutely. It's a mix of just like this, like sitting down, having conversations. I would say that's very much at the core.
00:07:21
Speaker
asking the right questions is also a very important piece of it. But then we also go and we work with a lot of established businesses. So we'll also go and look at their reviews. So like, what do your customers love about you? There's a lot of great information there. Sometimes we'll use surveys to better understand their audience and maybe like why they booked them or how they found them or what they enjoyed most about the experience. And even I'll look through competitor reviews.
00:07:47
Speaker
Because sometimes competitors don't really have a copy where I can learn much about them. So I can go and look at the competitor set of reviews and to learn a lot about like that business and see, okay, like they're really known for this.
DIY Copywriting: Common Mistakes and Advice
00:07:59
Speaker
I don't think you want to be known for that. like That's not you. And so that helps us really see the obvious like distinguishing features of a business and what we need to represent in their copy.
00:08:07
Speaker
Oh, that's so smart. And so if somebody was DIYing their copy, are those places that you think that they should start? Like if they didn't have the budget for copywriter or maybe the newer business? I would say that don't look right away at the competitors because I think that ends up just stuck in your mind. Even for us, it's kind of like a step two or three, we first look and listen and just pretend like we're the only like service provider in the world. What are our goals? What do you want like your lifestyle to be like with this business? What are the actual like numbers you need to be making? What are the values that need to be represented here? And just right from that, and then maybe like if you're and I'm talking about a DIY experience, right? just on your own. Maybe you look at other industries you're not competing in to get a better understanding of like an outline or a layout. like don't If you're a florist, don't look at another florist website at the beginning. Look at a photographer's website or or like an interior designer. But then as you were finding it and as you're like, okay, I think I know where I am, but let me
00:09:06
Speaker
like post-check this. That's where I would then and go look at the competitors and make sure you're not using the same language. That happens a lot. There are trends we all just get comfortable with and you realize, oops, I don't sound very different here. So I would say it's more of just like a step later in the process as opposed to from the beginning. But yes, it's a helpful to all.
00:09:23
Speaker
Okay, that's awesome. Are there any other common mistakes you see people DIYing their copy make? So you talked about burying the lead, you talked about looking a little too closely or too soon at the competitors and are jumping into the like the feature the features right away, which is something I see a lot too.
00:09:42
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Other kind of pitfalls that we might see. Honestly, ah SEO comes to mind for me. They're just not doing any keyword research or optimization. I think it's just a scary thing to a lot of people and they're a bit afraid to try, but we've seen a lot of great results. Just one blog a month, or if you're in an area that's not that competitive, like optimizing that homepage or that about page to rank for your location.
00:10:08
Speaker
So, if we were to simplify it and you're like, I don't want to do any SEO, Lauren, but tell me one thing I can do, I would say add your location to your homepage, your about page, and your footer because it's hard to rank for a region if you're not telling people where that region is. So, that's a little tip I would recommend. It's not hiding where you're based if that's important to your business. For me, I can hide it if I wanted to because we work in Alaska and the Amalfi Coast, but I'm in Texas. But for our clients, a lot of times they are local providers and so that's important to mention.
00:10:35
Speaker
Yeah, we think about the same thing when we're creating websites. You know, for us, we say that we live in Lexington, Virginia, but we actually don't serve many people here. It's funny to like, I have friends who work for the Chamber of Commerce here and they're like, oh, don't you want to join? You'll get so many like local clients. I'm like, well, my clients are all over the world. So it's not like a huge factor for me to get local clients. It's just, I know, just even in person. We're the same way. I go to local events just to get out of my house because I work from home.
00:11:04
Speaker
But here and there, like we'll maybe get get a client, but so many of the people we work with just have
Human Touch in Copywriting and AI's Role
00:11:09
Speaker
such a unique business model and they find us from all over, which is one of my favorite parts. Yeah. Okay. So I build a lot of websites. I see a common mistake. I don't know if you see this often too, where people make it all about their story. Like I had a client who started with her about section on her homepage, just listing of her five favorite things. And so could you speak to that and maybe why that's not the best approach? Yes. Okay. So
00:11:36
Speaker
definitely just talking about you is kind of like if you go to dinner with a new friend and they just sit and it's just like a one-sided conversation the whole time. When you open a website and it's just, hey, this is me and I have a dog named Nutmeg and we love to hike. It's like, okay, where do I fit in here? What's the story? And so those things are great. I love bringing in the humanity and the connection, but save those for the about page or a fun fact section. And instead, definitely like you said,
00:12:04
Speaker
If you just think like, am I using I mean my, or am I using you and your, even just going through your homepage and looking for the ratio will kind of tell you how much you're talking about yourself versus your client. And if you're using more of the use and the yours, typically that is a good sign. So another way to think of it is just talking about like your client's experience, what they can expect, describing like the overall atmosphere of working together. You can also of course meet in like descriptions of your style or descriptions of like why you do what you do, but less of the fun facts and more of the things that are directly correlated to what you're selling. Yeah. That's so smart. I've never even considered thinking more about like you and your than we and I and me. So yeah I think that's just like such a tangible, easy tip that people can take away from this.
00:12:54
Speaker
Okay, okay you also mentioned AI. Do you feel like, you know, this is like a hot button topic right now. I actually sent a list. I actually emailed our mailing list today. My take on AI, I came across this AI friend necklace and my team didn't even think this was real at first. It's like, think about like a 1990s Tamagotchi, but you wear it on your necklace.
00:13:18
Speaker
it's a friend, you talk to this friend. And I just feel like it's absolutely ridiculous. still Is it just like an advanced Apple watch but more friend like Robo friend vibes? Okay, I think it's just called friend calm if anyone wants to go look it up and watch the video, but it's like you have a problem and you talk to your friend instead of talking to a real person. And so I feel like this AI bubble is going to burst a bit. Maybe I'm wrong. and I still use chat GPT, but have you figured out as a copywriter like how to balance the two? like Do you think there's still a place for copywriters in this world where AI exists and it can generate so much copy so quickly?
00:13:59
Speaker
Yeah. I do want to talk first about the necklace because I would say that can be amazing for some people, but my worry there is it would create more like loneliness and isolation. liking I know my husband travels a lot and I feel like when we go too long without me being able to release it down and be like, how was your day? What are some of the problems that you've been facing or things you've been enjoying or I can't do the same? You feel this like disconnection over time. So I feel like just talking to like a gadget versus, you know, your gal however, I think that would Kind of scary, but again, I can see it being a solution for some people. I just would not want to lean on too much for us for copywriting. I think that it only makes the humanity of copywriting and the experience that like other copywriters are providing more important. So humanity-wise,
00:14:42
Speaker
we've seen that it's just all the more important to focus on the things that currently that little necklace or AI wouldn't be able to tell about a person. So really focusing on those conversations, the stories, providing that like human touch has become all the more important. But then I think in addition to that, if you're like a copywriter like me, AI has only made it more important to provide an experience to your clients. Because if they only need a Google Doc with written copy, they can now go get that from a source pretty much for free.
Service-Based vs. Product-Based Storytelling
00:15:10
Speaker
But when you provide that Google Doc with the surrounding compliments of maybe like one-on-one strategy calls and consultations that bring in that human side of your work, that then is now an experience that gives them a lot more than what you know just a punched out Google Doc from ChatTPT can provide to you. So focusing on those two elements, I think, is a way to go above and beyond what ChatTPT or AI can currently do. yeah I just think like people connect so much with story and story is makes us smile. It makes us know that somebody's a real human. like I hear you talk about your love of journalism and that's that's how you led into this career field, but like hey I would never know that. just like It could come through your website and maybe pick up pieces of that, but it wouldn't know everything about it. and so I think that's also probably one of the gifts in you being a talented copywriter and the copywriters who are out there
00:16:00
Speaker
Like, you ask people questions, you get the story, and AI can't do that. um What I tell people at like networking events, it's like a very common question if you're a copywriter and you go to a networking event. It's like, what do you think about AI? But at those events, I say, I'm not too concerned until there's someone who can pass as a human being that I trust who's in this room networking with you. That's what I always say, because they're like AI currently cannot live these experiences. So until then.
00:16:29
Speaker
Yeah. like So we talked a little bit, that one of my questions is going to be about storytelling, but we just like naturally went there. Do you think that there's a different approach that people should take if they are a service based provider as opposed to a product seller?
00:16:46
Speaker
o Okay, I love this question. If you're a service provider or if you are selling products, I would say there's a lot of similarities in terms of what you can do with your copy. You can still use story, like a product can still create like a certain lifestyle or certain benefits, like my paddleboard, it fits in my car, so I can take it. There are certain things you can paint the picture of, whether you're a service provider or a product seller, but I would say there are some Differentiator is giving out a service provider you are typically gonna be working one-on-one or team on one with the client so you don't want to book just anybody wears a product typically at the end of days on that product doesn't get returned you don't really mind who you sell it to.
00:17:27
Speaker
I think the biggest difference is the way you kind of describe your boundaries, your values, and the expectations of the overall experience. That's a lot more important for a service provider because when you don't work with the right client, it drains you so much of your creative energy and impacts a lot of your other clients, your projects, your life. There is a product, one return isn't going to be too big of like a mental breakdown. I would say that's a big biggest thing is you really have to set those expectations. So an example, cause I know sometimes it's hard when we talk just in theory for our business, like I travel, I'm married to a pilot. So my goal is to least travel out of state, out of country once a month. And so we've communicate communicated to our clients that that benefits them. You know, we go out and we find inspiration. We're taking notes. I try to go to places that correlate to the projects that I'm working on as well, just to try to
00:18:16
Speaker
really put myself in their shoes and find these immersive descriptions I can write for them. and so We don't get emails like, where are you in Rome right now? What's going to happen here? like We have such clear deadlines and such a clear process that when we share these things, our clients go, oh my gosh, I love it. I can't wait to see like what inspiration you get. I can't wait to see the photos.
00:18:36
Speaker
So that's a really great example of something that if we didn't present it correctly, people could be really worried, they could be afraid, they could be like micromanaging, but because we've created a culture and boundaries around it, it's more of just the expectation that they're happy and excited when we're out of the office, which is amazing.
00:18:52
Speaker
Have you also noticed that if it's like a standalone one-off product, you need more copy than if it's a service where somebody's inquiring and you're having a conversation? That's kind of something I've noticed a lot of course creators do. You have like that long, long sales page that answers a ton of questions because you're not hopping on a phone most likely with someone to sell that service. So that's something I've, I don't know, maybe that's just like my observation and that more expensive products also tend to need a little bit more copy Yeah, I was going to say it really just depends. I would say like a service might end up needing a whole more copy because like if you think of a wedding photographer, your homepage, your about page, your experience page, all of those lead up to them getting in touch for one single service, which is your wedding photography. But on products, you're right. There are some super long sales pages for one single product, but there's others like on Amazon. There could just be because of the way that they categorize things and feature things like we have our trust
00:19:47
Speaker
there already in the platform. So you can go to Amazon and buy like a $500 paddle board, but because it says bestseller or Amazon's choice because there's 5,000 reviews with an average of 4.5 stars, you can pretty easily say like, yep, add your cart by and make that happen by really reading a paragraph, a few bolded points and reviews if you're
Building Trust with Reviews and Testimonials
00:20:07
Speaker
me. Yeah, I read all the reviews too. So something to think about. I'm just not your review scanner. It's so bad. My husband's like, are you going to take an Airbnb? Yeah. I'm like, give me 25 more reviews and I'll tell you. Yeah. I feel like I need to review. Like what did people say about like, are the beds comfy? Like all the things that they're not going to say, like in that listing, we took our kids to Portugal this summer and I wanted to make sure that wherever we
00:20:29
Speaker
rented our Airbnb, it wasn't in a loud spot. Because like the Airbnb owner isn't going to tell you that, but like the reviewers will. So I think the reviews are important. And I think that's also just like, it shows you how important testimonials are on websites and social proof, especially a local business. like You talked about putting your location on your website. Well, you should also probably have a Google business listing and then have reviews there because people actually look at them. like They want to know if you're going to do what you say you're going to do.
00:20:55
Speaker
It's one of the questions we try to ask on our first call, if not like after they've booked us like, do you have a Google business listing because you're right, it's so important. It does make a difference with SEO and with just the customer trust and validation. Otherwise, it's just kind of a whatever you're saying, they have to believe you or maybe they check how many Instagram followers you have, but that doesn't always mean anything. so Absolutely. If you're listening to this and don't have that, it's kind of like if you search for an Italian restaurant near you, you can do that for your business. It's free. So absolutely set it up if if you don't have it because yeah, definitely a game changer. So I'm glad you mentioned that. Yeah. So do you guys provide ongoing ah SEO content creation for people or is it typically like a one-off kind of work on the website, get that live and then give them the reins?
00:21:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great question. So typically we provide work on a more like bash basis. So we can work on a consistent basis with clients, but it's very much kind of sensitive to like the seasons, their needs, how much content they have available. So we've learned to really like love and appreciate that. And so of our clients, we used to offer it on like a monthly blogging basis, but we found that it was a lot of upkeep for our clients to have to like respond on a weekly basis to a company and send edits for blog posts and send photos for blog posts. It just was a lot of back and forth. So we simplified the process to where if you want blogs that are like ranking and doing well for your business that don't have time to do it, we backed them out, you know, at five at a time. We can mix and match kind of types of blog posts. You all have the revisions at once and then you just schedule them out. That way it's easy. And when it's your the season, we can sit down and get all of that done for you. And then when it's your busy season, you don't have to worry about the fact that there's this company know in a holding pattern waiting to get your revisions back. I guess we can't work on a consistent basis, but it's a little bit more like we're planning ahead and then providing space in between projects just to make sure that we're not overwhelming
Creating SEO Content and Brand Voice
00:22:44
Speaker
anybody. Yeah, I love that. I think that's so smart. And I know so many creatives who they want to have the SEO friendly blog posts, the blog posts that bring in all of that that traffic, but they just like don't know how to do it. They feel overwhelmed. They aren't sure where to start, or especially creating that kind of content that would rank well. There's kind of a lot that goes into it.
00:23:03
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So that's where we come in. And we do it backwards, which is like, if I say this in like, we look at what people are searching to figure out what we're going to write about versus just picking a topic and hoping that it rings. So that's something that's made a really big difference in terms of our strategic workflow. So that's a really great example of like writing versus strategy, because we start with a strategy first that then makes the writing more effective. So yeah if you are going to blog on your own, definitely I would recommend looking up some keywords. We love Ubersuggest, like really just seeing like if you want to talk about engagement photo locations in your city, or if you want to talk about the best Airbnb's in Portugal, just look and see on there's keyword research tools you can use to see the data behind all of that. And then pick the topic that actually has some s searchers behind it. So yeah, it's a great way to do it.
00:23:51
Speaker
We teach a show at SEO course and that's what Davey teaches too. He uses tools like Ubersuggest to find out like the keyword volume and like how many people are actually searching for them and like what are the related topics. So yeah, it can really help you come up with a lot of ideas too, like things that maybe you never thought about blogging about.
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah, another one that we found recently is I'm sometimes too much of an open book, but we'll just share it anyways. We have seen that sometimes, like people who are very much a local business, like you have a studio, you're working weddings, but you're only working weddings in the certain local region. Just writing about things near you can sometimes be a way to get traffic. So like a restaurant guide for your city. Imagine how many like families or couples might be reading that. If you just want to target couples, maybe just talk about date night ideas.
00:24:37
Speaker
in your town. They're like fun little off the beaten track topics you can write about. And I think some people when you're just so focused on wedding photography or web design, whatever it might be, it's sometimes kind of nice just to sit down and write about another hobby of yours, which for me is eating. So just another kind of fun idea that typically you don't even have to do any keyword research typically if you use the right phrase that is very searchable like Restaurants or the best restaurants and you know x-city that probably do pretty well And then if if you're getting out on a regular basis then you know any cities need to be something you can like snap a couple photos about blog about and then get some of those local searches who now know that you're a photographer or designer and you're right and Yeah, that's really helpful. That's such a good tip. And it's probably really fun to write and do that exploration, especially if you do love food. Well, if people are interested in learning more about you, where can they find you? ah Good question. So we are salted pages pretty much everywhere. So like salted caramels, salted pages, subtlety, you know, Instagram, Pinterest, website, all of the above. So we're pretty easy.
00:25:41
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me. I feel like you shared so many good tips and yeah, it was a great conversation and I hope you have fun on this trip. I'm impressed that you travel so much. Oh my gosh. Thank you. I did want to ask where in Portugal did you go with your family?
00:25:56
Speaker
We went to Lisbon and then we went to Nazare, which is like the place where they have the biggest waves in the world. Oh, oh my goodness. Okay. I think I've ever heard about this. We, I went to Porto last, like not this May, but last May and definitely like just one of those most beautiful places, but you're absolutely right. It was so loud. Lots of singers all on the street next to us.
00:26:17
Speaker
Speaking of singing, if you did want to to like make your messaging sing a little bit more, I was going to offer for your audience. We have a little like mini brand messaging guide. So like a couple of things that I love to use, like every time I'm writing anything, like you're asking if you're DIY and what are some things you can do to really like take it and run with it. There are two lists at least that I create every time. One's a vocab list. So like a vocabulary list, I split it into style, experience, and then results. And I just take in list words for each category. And that way if I'm writing an Instagram caption or writing a headline for a client, I just go and plug and play with those words. And then the other list that I love to make is a list of like key differentiator. So it's kind of like the list of things that make you different from everyone else.
00:26:59
Speaker
So if you're a wedding photographer, that could be that you use 35 millimeter films. Sometimes it could be that you also have a journalism degree. It could be that you are, you know, just have like XY years of experience, whatever it might be. Just list anything that is a benefit or a description of like what you do. And then that's really great to pull from because it's been easier to kind of prioritize and categorize. Oh, wow. Like this is something I don't really mention anywhere, but I've been doing this for 20 years. Why am I not talking about that? So we have a little Canva guide to help you fill those in and easily refer back to with your writing as just like a complimentary resource. So that should be something to to help make waves for a lot of small businesses. Yeah, that's amazing. I will make sure that we link that in the show notes so that people can get that sent right to them. Awesome. Well, I loved getting to chat with you. I'm excited to see some of the coffee that comes from this. Send me some samples. I love seeing those. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being with me. Thank you.
00:27:57
Speaker
Thanks for tuning into the Bransa Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, and sharing this episode with others. For show notes and other resources, head on over to DavianKrista.com.