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Episode 241 - Launching an Online Course / Digital Product
258 Plays6 days ago
In this episode I get to chat with Dolly DeLong. Our conversation navigates the heart of what you really need to launch a successful digital product and I think it’s an episode you guys are really going to enjoy.
As always, links and resources can be found in the show notes. Check ’em out at https://daveyandkrista.com/launching-online-course-digital-product-btb-241/. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review over at Apple Podcasts.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I would encourage listeners to be willing to let this process take time. You're listening to The Brands That Book Show, a podcast for creative entrepreneurs who want practical tips and strategies to build engaging brands and craft high converting websites. We're your hosts, Davey and Krista, co-founders of a brand and website design agency specializing in visual brand design and show it websites. You're listening to The Brands That Book Show.
Who is Dolly DeLong?
00:00:28
Speaker
In today's episode, I'm chatting with Dolly DeLong about all things launch prep and systems. Dolly DeLong is a systems and workflow educator dedicated to helping creative small business owners streamline their processes and conquer the overwhelm of launching. With a background in photography and digital education, Dolly has honed her skills in creating intentional and strategic systems that not only support a successful launch, but also empower business owners to maintain these systems long after the launch is over.
00:00:55
Speaker
Dolly's mission is to demystify the tech copy and strategy behind launching, making it accessible and manageable for those who feel scatterbrained or frazzled by the process. In this episode, we get to the heart of what you really need to launch a successful digital product, and it's an episode I think you guys are really going to enjoy. So now, on to the episode.
Dolly's Journey to Systems Education
00:01:15
Speaker
Dolly, I am so excited to be chatting with you today. I feel like I've known you for a while and I have really love to see how you've shifted over the years. And specifically we're talking today about launching an online course slash a digital product. So I'd love for you to lead with your story and tell me and tell our audience how you ended up specializing in launching and automations. Cause I feel like that's kind of a unique niche to end up in.
00:01:42
Speaker
Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on. I am a long time podcast listener, so it's an honor to be here. So thank you so much. Thank you. Okay. So i like it was all accidental, which I know that's not the perfect answer to this question, but I'll try to keep it very short and condensed. But my My entrepreneurial journey began on accident in 2006. So in 2006, I had graduated from college. I might age myself college and my grandparents gifted me with a camera and that's how my photography journey began. And it took me like 10 years from then to become full-time as a photographer.
00:02:27
Speaker
And I, again, did not want to do photography full-time. i was working in My background is in higher education and mental health counseling, and so I was working in a college. I thought I had great benefits. I loved it. It was comfortable. I had the golden shackles and everything. it's like I loved it.
00:02:48
Speaker
But then the year I was pregnant with my first, so Blaze, so this is like six years ago, my income started to match my photography income, my side hustle. And then that same year, my husband and I, Ty, we became debt free because we were on like the Dave Ramsey plan. And that is when I started dreaming in like, maybe I can like pursue my business full time.
00:03:14
Speaker
but I was too afraid to. and i Again, I went to my director of my department and I was like, okay, I have a plan. I want to go part-time because I really like my job and I really like the students and I also want the consistent income. I don't like the roller coaster of owning my own business. and so He was like, yeah, we can work something out. Well, literally the next day he had sent out a department-wide e-mail that said, Dolly is leaving us in the fall.
00:03:41
Speaker
And it was like, it was just like that forced me to open my business full time. So everybody's like, I went into my business kicking and like dragging my feet. Like I don't want to do this full time. So 2018 had two babies, my blaze, my real human baby, and then my photography business.
00:04:01
Speaker
Fast forward to 2020, a lot of things happened that year. like I don't need to name it, but I was forced to pivot in my business because I wasn't making any money in photography because of the shutdowns. And so I was like, how else can I make money? When am I good at?
00:04:18
Speaker
That's where the systems and workflow strategy started coming in. I didn't know what it was called. I just knew I was very organized and yeah I had managed college students and I had like that background in organization and that was my personality. And so that's when that journey began. And again, it was like me kicking and like, I guess the theme of my life is like,
00:04:41
Speaker
dragging my feet and not really knowing what to commit to. That makes me sound so like, I don't know. I'm just very scared of a lot of things like the unknown. So I threw a lot of spaghetti at the wall. I like that. Oh, I want to do Pinterest marketing. Now I want to be a Debsado automation specialist. Now I want to do this.
Developing Pre-Launch Strategies
00:05:02
Speaker
But there was always an underlying tone of like planning and executing, having a really, I didn't know what I was doing was a lot of pre-launch content strategy for a lot of people. And then finally, I met up with a business coach and she was like, you should consider pre-launch strategy. She didn't call it pre-launch strategy, but she said, you're really good at this. You should do this for free for several clients to see if it sticks.
00:05:29
Speaker
And it's stuck and that was 4 years ago. Oh, that's awesome. And so I've just been like slowly taking steps in establishing myself more and more as a pre launch.
00:05:40
Speaker
planner and integrating that with like automations and systems. And so that's where I am now. And I've had a lot of great one-on-one clients and have had experience, a lot of good launches for them. So that was a very long winded story. I'm still, I'm still a photographer. I still do family photography. That is a big income stream in my business. But the other side of my business is systems and workflow education and launch planning.
00:06:08
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like there have been so many gifts in your story like your boss maybe misunderstanding you or like maybe like accidentally forcing you out that took you into like the photography route and you're such a gifted photographer. And then like, I think that 2020 at the times was so hard for so many people. But it's so beautiful how you found like another career path that you really enjoy and that you're really good at. And it probably gives you a lot more freedom to be with your kids and your family, I would guess.
00:06:36
Speaker
Yes, it does, which I really love. And yeah, I love the flexibility. And now that I think about working for somebody else, I'm like, No, I really enjoy working from home, working for myself, and I can invest more in my voice. Yeah. Was it hard at first to find those clients that you mentioned, like in the pre launch phase? Or were they like friends that you had? Because I know a lot of people when they're getting started in their business, finding the first few clients can be tough, especially if they're making a big pivot like you did.
Overcoming Client Challenges
00:07:05
Speaker
Yeah. So it was honestly very hard for me to find paying clients. I will say that. But once I reached out to several like business peers and I asked them, Hey, can I like test these series out, like test my structure of how I do a pre-launch? And they were very open to it. They were like, yeah, it's free. Of course, like years ago.
00:07:29
Speaker
And what the problem was I was saying was they love the strategy. And so that wasn't the problem. The problem was there was no execution. there was no So like they would do a day or a week with me. And then I would essentially hand off a blueprint and say, hey, stick with this. And if you treat it like really priming your audience well, like acting like a domino effect over your content, you should have a really Strategic launch because I love strategy. I love content marketing. I love putting all those puzzle pieces together and then They didn't and it's not like it's not because they were mean or bad It's just like another I don't know shiny object came up or something else came up life came up So that's when I figured okay. I really need to start really trying to find clients who are going to have like whatever the term is like when you
00:08:23
Speaker
skin in the game, that skin in the game, and they are paid. And so I started finding those clients last year. So it was, has been like such a long process, but because it's taken so long, I now have honed in on my messaging a little bit more. I know exactly what I like in the lunch process and helps me serve my clients in a better way.
00:08:46
Speaker
That's awesome. So what are some of the key components that you see people who have successful launches
Key Elements of a Successful Launch
00:08:52
Speaker
consist of? like Are there like key elements that many of them have that help prime them for a better launch like you were suggesting?
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah, so I took a lot of notes on this. chris I really believe that a person who wants to launch something, they need to hone in on their messaging and what their offer is and who it's for. Because if it's very broad and very just like, who is this for? I don't understand. I don't understand the transformation. I'm not saying to listeners like, oh, yeah you have to become a perfect copywriter like you have to know how to hone in on messaging from day one like i'm still honing in on my messaging from my audience cuz i serve two different types of clients but it's an ongoing process so i would encourage listeners to be willing
00:09:42
Speaker
To let this process take time, this is air quotes, but for a launch to make sense, you should let the potential buyer know who it's for through your messaging and it should be a clear transformation. Like how does this bridge them from their problem to your solution? And that's part of it is in your messaging and what your offer is.
00:10:05
Speaker
Another thing that I would recommend is making sure that it's an offer that people in your audience actually want and that's something that you feel because I have a lot of things that I've created and made and I'm like, oh, people will definitely need this and want this and then it falls flat because I didn't do any audience surveys and I didn't do any testing of this hypothesis and That's really unfun and unsexy for a lot of people to do surveys and to do one-to-one interviews with their ideal audience, but that is a portion that a lot of people fall flat on. It's just like getting their ideal client's words and knowing exactly like what their problem is and not taking the time to do that in the pre-launch phase. Right. That's a great point.
00:10:56
Speaker
I also think another key component that a lot of business owners, I don't want to say neglect in a negative sense, but like truly they forget this or they don't want to do this is having a good pre-launch plan that infuses their marketing. And what I mean by this is just essentially priming their audience leading up to the open cart of their digital product or their group program.
Effective Pre-Launch Audience Engagement
00:11:23
Speaker
Because we as business owners, we are so focused in on, of course, making money. We need to make money to run our business, but we also focus in on that shiny object of, oh, I want to have like an eight-figure launch or like some elusive number that is thrown at us all the time.
00:11:41
Speaker
But we're like, I'm just focused on the cart open. I'm so excited about it. And they forget, Oh, I need to be priming my potential buyers. And how do I do that? I need to be creating content that answers their objections, like week after week after week, so that when I actually open up the art There are people, all of their answers, essentially, objections have been answered. They're either primed or ready to buy, or they're more open to learning more about what I have to offer. And this is, I think it's fun. I think the pre-lunch period is fun, but there is a cadence to it. It's not, some people might think, oh, this is so rigid, but you can like,
00:12:23
Speaker
infuse it in your personality, your marketing, but just consistent marketing and consistently showing up and being consistent. And that's really hard to do. Yeah. So we, before I launched my design templates course, I think I was in business for doing short templates for eight years. So we shared a lot of content in that meantime. And I think that that contributed to a successful launch, but I've seen a lot of other people create products and they hadn't ever talked about that topic before. And I think that their results are super,
00:12:52
Speaker
lackluster which i think is so disappointing especially if you put all that time into a course maybe you spent money on a coach or like ads or all of those things have you seen in your work with clients there's like a sweet spot for how long to be prepping that content or is it just like as long as possible.
00:13:08
Speaker
Okay, so I'm very intense as a person, I realize this. So I'm always recommending having an eight to 10 week of pre-launch. That's intense, I realize. But a good sweet spot for people who are launching for the first time or relaunching something and they just want to have a better pre-launch experience, I would say like five to six weeks is a pretty good sweet spot, if especially if this is a brand new concept for any listeners. But I normally, I recommend eight weeks of just getting used to like producing content and making sure it's marketed every week in a consistent way, making sure that you're building out your email list during this time period, making sure that all of those backend puzzle pieces are in place.
00:13:56
Speaker
and yes so I know that it's not answering clearly, but I would say, eight ten yeah. OK, that's helpful, I think. So you mentioned email us. How important do you think it is for people to build an audience before launching their online course or a digital product?
00:14:12
Speaker
So I think it's very important, but I will say this as a caveat. I don't think it is the side like the audience size doesn't matter. And then again, caveat to that. I really think that as a business center, you need to have a pulse on what your audience wants.
00:14:30
Speaker
and how you do that is engage with them consistently even in non-pre-launch periods. like Get to know them, get to know who you're serving because that way when you get to know them, that in turn impacts how you serve them like and it creates better experiences for your future clients. So why not always have like In your marketing just waste to talk with them like surveys or quarterly surveys or coffee chats infused in your marketing so that way I think you can talk with people and again this takes time and this is like.
00:15:11
Speaker
not sexy, it's not flashy, it's not like instantaneous, but it takes work. I feel like at least two times a year I'm always talking with my audience, like one-on-one the way we're talking. And I usually have like a 90-minute Zoom call and I'm asking them, okay, like you're you've been in my audience for this long, what are some systems of workflow related things that you want me to, why do you follow me? And then what do you want to learn? What are some gaps?
00:15:39
Speaker
like I ask them questions like this and it helps me better create products for them for the future, but it also helps me create a better experience in my current products. Taking their feedback, having a pulse and on your audience, you could have 75, 100 people in your audience. and If you have a really good pulse on that and then you create a product that they've been talking about or asking you about or even hinting at,
00:16:09
Speaker
I believe it will sell very well. Yeah, I kind of think slightly differently on this. i think that So Davey used to have an ad agency and they would say that if you're going to launch like an online course, digital product, you probably need at least a thousand people on your mailing list because yeah I don't know if you see this with your clients, but there is like a certain conversion rate in which people are going to buy. And so it's a really good day if you have like 5% of your audience buy. So if you only have 70 people to begin with, that's not a lot of people buying. Have you yeah kind of seen that to be true in working with your launch clients?
00:16:44
Speaker
I've seen it both ends. That's why I'm like, there's a caveat to everything. I've seen it both ends. like One of my clients, when we started working together, she had maybe 400, 500 people in her list.
00:17:00
Speaker
ahhu and She wasn't actively engaged she like on her list, but she was with her clients. like They were constantly letting her know, hey, we want this. We want to learn this from you. We want this. and so That's when she's like, okay, let's create a launch plan. Dolly, I need help with this. and so We did that. and she like I should have looked at the numbers before, so I'm not going to say any numbers. okay Her conversion rates were through the roof with like a list of less than 1,000 people for a digital product versus on the other side. I worked with another client this year and she had over 20,000 people on her email list, and but she was launching
00:17:42
Speaker
a group program and also a digital product. And then we figured out that her sweet spot is people just want her. They want to learn from her. They don't really want the digital product. and so But she still like had a very successful launch like to a Smaller set of that twenty thousand so that's why I just believe like you have to have like a really good pulse on what your audience wants but Krista I will agree with you like it is really wise to have a bigger pool like because the conversion rates like I tend to be very conservative like I'm like
00:18:21
Speaker
let's make a 1% conversion rate, 2%, like I'm usually 1,
Understanding Your Audience
00:18:26
Speaker
2, 3%. I make those goals based on email list and then based on other data. So I know listeners are like, wow, Dolly, you're all over the place. But I just really think you're like, it comes down to you being engaged with your young people and them like you knowing exactly what they need and want. Yeah, that is very true. Okay, so what are some other ways that people could create excitement before lunch? So you talked about doing marketing and sharing content ahead of time. You talk about being engaged with their list and having a pulse. Like when you're talking to clients about like launch plans, what are some other tips that you have for them?
Boosting Engagement with Content and Events
00:19:01
Speaker
Okay. So I'm a big proponent of utilizing what you have already in your content. So hopefully if you're, if you're showing up weekly in your blog or podcast, for example, or YouTube channel, incorporating your long-form content and creating like in the pre-launch phase, you're answering their objections and then having a hype event the week before. And I know like, I feel like.
00:19:26
Speaker
In this world, so many people know what a hype event is, but I'm just going to like simplify it again, just in case somebody's new to a hype event. I am a strong believer of either having like some sort of webinar, master class. I love private podcasts right before opening a cart, because my audience, I know, they like learning on the go, or they're not going to sit down and watch a master class. They're not. So I'd like to make sure, OK, what is their learning style like?
00:19:55
Speaker
how are they going to consume? And so I know it's through audio. And so my hype events usually revolve around some sort of audio, and audio focus. And so it's a free, normally free event. And it's juicy and it's packed.
00:20:10
Speaker
And then it leads them to the actual cart open. Does that make sense? It does. Yeah, that's really helpful. And I haven't heard of people doing an audio hype event to her before. So that's I think that's a great tip for people, especially if you don't love showing your face on the camera, which can be so hard. It can be really hard. And if people are worried, oh, like I don't.
00:20:30
Speaker
I don't know, like there is a way to me. It all goes down to like, what is your audience? How do they learn and how do they take action? And then what do they want? And so I just know like a lot of my audience members, they love listening on the go or listening in the carpool line or while they're walking their dog or while they're doing like some sort of activity, like folding their laundry, doing the dishes. And they, I've gotten DM saying, okay, I listened to this private podcast.
00:21:00
Speaker
While I was doing this and I learned this and I was able to finish this task So I was like, okay, like this is a good I don't know insight for me to continue to make Private podcasts and lead into my events. Mm-hmm. That's awesome What about some pitfalls that people should avoid when working towards a launch? like are there some mistakes that you see a lot of people tend to make and not giving themselves ample and realistic time to plan. so This is where my integrator systems hat comes in because if you want to launch like a digital product, for example, what things do you need in place like to house your digital product?
Ensuring Launch Success through Planning
00:21:40
Speaker
Or do you need to create videos for your digital product? do you What sort of assets need to go alongside the digital product? and so
00:21:48
Speaker
you'll need to give yourself time and space to finish that. And then in addition, you'll need to give yourself time and space to actually create a marketing plan for the digital product. And then you need to give yourself time and space to, okay, how am I going to market this in the pre-launch period? And because like, I don't know about you, Krista, but sometimes I get ideas and I just want to work on it now. Like I get an idea and I'm like, okay, I need to stop everything and do it now. And I have to rein myself in and remind myself, OK, Dolly, like where does this fit in to your overall marketing? And is this going to actually be a moneymaker? Or is it just like something you want to do? And so I want to encourage listeners, like if if you're like me, then allow yourself that time and space of creativity. But then also, if you do want to launch strategically,
00:22:41
Speaker
give yourself that plenty ample so time and space to plan and then to plan out your marketing and then to put all the back end puzzle pieces of your actual content delivery because you want the delivery piece to leave a good impression in people's minds because when they buy from you and then there's like, oh, it didn't deliver or it like,
00:23:03
Speaker
That leaves a really bad impression in people's minds and then they don't trust you or they don't trust you to buy again. And so you want to make sure that all the phases of that buyer's journey are like, it doesn't have to be perfect. like It does not have to be perfect, but it should be well planned out and thought out with the buyer in mind.
00:23:26
Speaker
That's such a great point because I think also too if they buy something and it doesn't deliver it there might be a higher chance to do a refund request and then that can hurt your account later down the line if you have too many of those. So there's just like so many different elements and pieces to think about when you're doing digital products and like this online logic world.
00:23:45
Speaker
Exactly. And I want you like listener to think through potential. I don't want to roadblocks that your buyer might face when they buy what could happen. So put that maybe on your FAQs page of your sales page or create mini videos explaining, okay, this is where you should look like I've created for the post buyer purchase. I've created videos explaining where to find their username and password because my platform is through Thrivecart. Sometimes Thrivecart sends it to spam or their promotions tabs. And so I'm like, okay, make sure before you freak out, make sure you so check your promotions or your spam folder
00:24:31
Speaker
for that first email for your username and password because if a person is dropping like $200, $300, $400, they might like have that freak out moment of, oh no, I need a refund. i So I want to make sure like I'm serving them even after they have whipped out their credit card.
00:24:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great point. I like to go through and do test transactions too. Like sometimes I'll make a 99% off coupon so that I'm doing a test purchase, but I still have to have some sort of transaction money just to ensure that that cart is going through. And I think it's good to do like a percentage off because even if you were to refund that money to yourself, PayPal or Stripe still keep a portion of that fee. Like that's yeah not refundable. So I was trying to make it as cheap as I can while still having it be a monetary amount that goes through.
00:25:18
Speaker
That's
Testing and Execution for Launch
00:25:19
Speaker
very true. I learned this. This is super side note, but this just made me think I did this run of tests last night, Krista, for one of my clients. And I decided to do like 99 and 98% off um just to see, like make sure the zaps are working. Cause I didn't realize this, but if I like set the coupon code for free, Zapier would still work, but then they're I don't know. Something was happening with the cart abandonment sequence because there was not an actual transaction like of money. okay and so I set those coupons up to be 98% instead of 100%. Anyway, so I was like joking with my client. I'm like, you're going to get all of these transactions for $2.
00:26:00
Speaker
I was like, you've already made money on your launch. I was trying to like pumper up. But anyways, that's so important to to go down that list, like making sure the deliverables are working, making sure like the money is coming through. Do a test run at least two weeks before the card opens is my argument.
00:26:18
Speaker
Yeah. Do you have any like final advice for people or I think you might have like a checklist people can go through. Is that right? I've seen maybe that. Yeah. So I do offer an emails needed for a launch checklist because I know that there are so many puzzle pieces to launching. So I wanted to simplify it for business owners who are maybe launching for a first time or relaunching and they just want to make sure their emails are in place and full transparency. It's not templated emails because I'm not, I'm not a copywriter.
00:26:49
Speaker
I'm like, if it was up to me to write, it'd be like, I don't know, a thesis. because that's like i just I'm very wordy. so I made a checklist of the eight different emails you need to consider for your pre-launch, your launch, and your post-launch periods, because it's a lot of emails, and so I break them down. and It's through a Google Doc, so I make it very easy to consume.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. So we'll make sure that we include a link in our show notes so that people can grab that. I'd love for you to share where people can find you too. Of course, you guys can find me on my podcast, the systems and workflow magic podcast. And you can also find me on Instagram at Dolly to long education. And so if you want more systems and workflow education, come find me there. And then Davey was on the podcast and his episode just dropped this week. So and go back and listen. And and he talked about Badao a lot. So i yeah I was really excited about introducing that to my audience. That's awesome. Well, it could have been to that too. Also, I wish people could see you right now because you have this like incredible calendar behind you with all of these like notes and things. I'm super impressed. Thank you. Well, I always check around like I bake all these plans and then it's now God and my sons who laugh at me like God's like, Oh, that's key. You're making all these plans. And then my sons are like, that's really cute mom that you're making all these plans. So I feel like I need the digital version because like yeah last week on my way home from the doctor, I got a call from school saying that my son had ice cream at school and I had to come pick him up because he had a stomachache. And I was like,
00:28:27
Speaker
What is this? I know. I will say this, like speaking of digital, I need a digital version of this because when my oldest was one, so this is like five years ago, I had like put sticky notes everywhere. It was a workflow. I was so excited. and Then he came in, ran into the room, he ripped them all off. Oh no. and he Then he took them to the toilet and threw them in the toilet. and I was like devastated. He's one, like he was just being one. And so it was it was symbolic, very symbolic for me, but it was really funny. So I was like, I just need to find a digital planner to put my work in. So yeah. Well, that's awesome. Well, thank you for being here with me today. Of course, thanks for having me. Yes.
00:29:15
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Brands of Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, and sharing this episode with others. For show notes and other resources, head on over to DavianChrista.com.