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What makes a good horror film?
233 Plays1 year ago
In this episode, Satsunami is joined by the one and only horror film aficionado ZelphiaMoth. But what makes a good horror film? Is there more to it than jump scares? And can CGI take over practical effects? All this and more in this fantastic episode!
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Transcript
Introduction to Horror Episode with Zelfia
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to a very spooky episode of Chatsunami.
Zelfia's Journey into Horror Films
00:00:22
Speaker
My name's Satsunami and joining me on this very horrific holiday, if you can call it that, is none other than the one and only amazing streamer, Zelfia. Zelfia, welcome. Hi, nice to be here. How are you doing tonight?
00:00:36
Speaker
I just finished up watching my favorite technical horror movie and now I'm here hanging out with you. And as you said there today we are indeed going to be talking about something that I have to admit is a little bit of a departure for the show because I have to admit I was talking to my friends and co-hosts asking them if they wanted to do like a spooky film and suffice to say the answer was a straight up no.
Subjectivity in Horror Films
00:01:02
Speaker
Have you ever seen that with your friends where you say, do you want to watch this song? It's really spooky. It's really this and that. And they go, no.
00:01:09
Speaker
Yeah, all the time. Today we're going to be jumping into the weird and wonderful world of horror films. Now, as you guys listening at home may know, in the past we have done an episode on what makes a good horror game, but we have never really gone into the world of what makes a good horror film. Before we go on, Zelfia, what is your background with horror films?
00:01:32
Speaker
Funny enough, I wasn't always a horror person. I was actually a scaredy cat growing up, hiding behind the couch, watching simple little kids who were, you know, like goosebumps and stuff. I actually did not get into horror until I was about 14 and I was watching movies with my aunt and uncle. They're the ones that really got me into horror.
00:01:50
Speaker
I used to be just so scared, but my uncle sat me down and was like, hey, remember, Zoe. None of this is real. That person right there is covered in corn syrup mixed with coloration. And after then, I just was nonstop watching horror because of how he spoke to me and all that. I started nonstop soaking myself in horror. One of my first horror films was actually
Generational Perceptions of Horror
00:02:10
Speaker
The Village. Those kind of movies just started soaking up my life. And I've been watching horror for over 15 years now, but I'm more into like the older horror movies and I love
00:02:20
Speaker
picking them apart, special effects, everything. But that's basically it. I'm just a big fan. I mean, to be fair horror, at least from when it started to, at least nowadays, how people understand the horror genre, it has changed. Well, I wouldn't say completely, but it's definite. Would you say it's evolved from the original films?
00:02:42
Speaker
Well here's the thing, I feel like horror goes with the decade. I don't feel like you can compare a horror movie from the 50s to movies in the 90s, you know what I mean? It's completely different generation of people, different generations that they're exposed to. I feel like we've all watched
00:02:59
Speaker
movies like The Shining, Exorcist, and all that, Nightmare on the Milk Street, like slasher movies, classic slasher movies. I feel like we've all watched those movies, and we all have different reactions to it, but I think it all depends on the decade. Because the movie The Shining, you might say, is timeless, but at the same time, it's very outdated to now.
00:03:18
Speaker
Being isolated through a whole winter, no problem. Nowadays, people will be like, that's no sweat staying in a hotel isolated through six months, especially in 2023 after COVID,
Preference for Psychological Horror
00:03:28
Speaker
you know? Like it's not scary anymore. I don't think any of those went insane, but it's still a good movie. I feel like what's more scary, it just depends on who you are.
00:03:35
Speaker
I know what you mean though, it is a very subjective thing because I have to say and this might draw the ire of a couple of people maybe in the horror community when they say this but there are some really popular horror films that I've watched personally and either I laugh at it or I kind of think this is silly, this isn't the best but then I'll see another film and I'll think oh my goodness that was absolutely horrifying that was
00:04:01
Speaker
You're right, not only as a generational thing, whether it's the decade of the 50s or as far as nowadays. And again, not all horrors, gory, but I feel as if it's maybe gotten a little bit gory or, you know, the more they've been allowed to get away with in terms of their creators themselves. But yeah, do you find as if it is quite a subjective
Reactions to Gore in Horror Films
00:04:24
Speaker
thing?
00:04:24
Speaker
Oh, definitely. I can watch horror movies that are covered in blood and guts and horrifying creatures all day long. But what really gets me is movies that are psychological, that really get you into the person that is the main character or like main characters and they just go through these so many effects like the Babadook. That movie messed with me at first I watched it.
00:04:47
Speaker
I was literally terrified. It's silly looking back at it now, but that movie just messed with you, and the movie is a village too. But I feel like everyone is subjective. I still can't watch some horror movies that are covered in gore, because I don't know about if you do, but when it comes to like certain things, horror movies especially, when something's happening to them, like let's say they get cut with a razor blade, I cringe, and I'm like, oh gosh.
00:05:11
Speaker
because I put myself in that person's shoes. That's why I feel like psychological movies scare me more.
00:05:41
Speaker
And there were a couple of films that did pop up, but one of the ones that popped up was Evil Dead Rises, I think, or Evil Dead Rise. Oh, one of the remakes. Yeah. I actually have not watched that one yet. The thing that put me off about it, I mean, I've not really watched any of the series as a whole, but one of the things that put me off was just the
00:06:01
Speaker
gore aspect of it and there seem to be a lot of people saying, oh they do a particular thing with the thing and then they rip the thing off and then the thing goes everywhere. And I'm like, this ain't selling me, I'm sorry.
What Defines a Horror Film?
00:06:15
Speaker
This is a bit too brutal and I have to say there's certain things for me in films where I will recoil. I'm very much into, you know, my action films and things like that.
00:06:26
Speaker
understandably yeah so whenever i see someone punch another person or someone gets shot you know i've seen it so many times that you kind of get desensitized you think all right okay but i always remember in the cinema seeing of all things it was like the third batman term
00:06:42
Speaker
Christopher Nolan one and I remember there's a scene where the main villain being he grabs Batman and he breaks his back and the amount of recoil and gasping I made at that point because it was like the punching totally fine the shooting and everything yep totally fine the back breaking bones breaking general I was like no
00:07:02
Speaker
No, I'm out. I still stayed to watch the film, but you know, obviously it's going to be tenfold when it's in the realm of horror, but see before we go into it, before we go into what makes a horror film good, I'm going to ask you a bit of a strange question here.
Comedy's Role in Horror
00:07:18
Speaker
What, in your opinion, is defined as a horror film?
00:07:22
Speaker
That is a really good question. I love Beetlejuice, right? That is my top film. It has everything that a horror movie needs, but I myself do not consider it a horror movie. I feel like a horror movie just has to just give you the chills. It has to get you terrified if this happens to you. It has to make you think and just stare in some way psychological, some psychological thing. And slashers, what would you do if someone was chasing after you with a knife?
00:07:52
Speaker
and hunting you down. That itself is terrifying. Let's say a movie like The Thing. I don't know if you've ever seen that movie. Do you know it's on the list? Yeah. I'm ashamed to say. My friend keeps recommending it next to, I mean, not a horror film, but Citizen Kane and all of those films. And I'm like, yeah, I'll get to it. I'll get to it. But yeah, it's definitely on the list. I understand that. But no, The Thing. It's terrifying because they're isolated. They're isolated in the Antarctica area in Cuthard and Snow in this
00:08:21
Speaker
isolated area scientists and they're not only being hunted by this animal this creature this alien that they don't understand but they don't know who's real and who's alive still and they don't know who's if this person that is in front of them is actually the alien or them and it's terrifying because they can't trust anyone neither of themselves and i feel like that is the true meaning of horror is just losing your humanity in some way losing the sense of safety
00:08:46
Speaker
No, that's a perfect summary to be honest. I mean, it's going back to what we were saying before about these films being very subjective because one person's horror might not necessarily be another person's horror. You know, I know that sounds like a very basic thing to say but you're completely right. It is that idea of trying to pull the audience almost into a situation that they're not familiar with
00:09:12
Speaker
and a lot of that is, I suppose, rooted maybe in the fear of the unknown. You know, like, you would like to think people watching these films haven't been chased around by a big alien monster or by a person hiding in the cupboard. The creators must try to think, right, how can we make the audience feel as if they are an active participant in these films? How are they gonna feel? Are they gonna feel happy? Are they gonna feel scared? Are they gonna feel, I don't know, are they gonna laugh at it?
00:09:42
Speaker
I have to say what I find quite interesting is the role of comedy and I'm interested to hear what you think about this but there's been a lot of horror films that initially they might have started quite serious, you know like your Nightmare on Elm Street, your Scream, things like that where I know that I'm loading this washer realm
00:10:03
Speaker
But, you know, the start off is very serious and, oh, what would happen if you were being chased by a murderer? But then they get quite comical when they move
Technology's Impact on Horror Film Premises
00:10:11
Speaker
at the top. So I'm just quite curious to hear what you think about the role of comedy when it comes to these films. I had a lot of opinions on that. Oh, do tell.
00:10:22
Speaker
I love when horror movies take the piss out of things because one of my top favorite cult classics that's actually becoming more popular than other right now, and it's from like the 80s, Killer Clowns is an outer space. I absolutely love how goofy it is. And you're like, yeah, people were getting killed and yeah, there's some horrifying things in it that are scary. I don't know if you've ever seen it. I have heard of it.
00:10:45
Speaker
There's this one scene when like the group of teenagers because you know It's always a group of teenagers are trying to go back to the police station to get the policeman's help from the clowns and They see it's been taken over by the clowns and they walk in and see the main guy I think it's one of the kids father's and he's all cut up and bloody and they're like dad or mr What other I can't think of the names unlike some horrible with names
00:11:08
Speaker
but they all suddenly see the clown behind them, you know? And the clown is using this grown man as a puppet, a human puppet. That part freaks me out, but the rest of the movie, I laugh all day long, you know what I mean? Obviously it's a horror movie, but I love comedy and horror. Do I always think it sticks? Heck no. It's a new remake of Chucky. I don't know if you've seen that one. You know, funny enough,
00:11:30
Speaker
It's something that I actually thought when you were talking about how you were watching horror films when you were younger and people were telling you, don't be afraid of them, you know, they're just fake, they're not real. Chucky was one of those films for me, I have to say, where every time I saw them or I saw the box art or anything, I would be terrified. Like, I was really scared of Chucky. And then one day I was like, you know what? I'm gonna conquer my fear. I'm gonna watch this film. And you know what? See, at the end of the day, the film was
00:11:59
Speaker
was okay. It wasn't as scary as I thought it was going to be. That was a very proud moment. I had to pat myself on the back and be like, finally watched a horror film. But yeah, I know what you mean. Chucky is one of those ones that has definitely embraced its silly side because I have to say, after the first one, I don't think they really tried to keep it serious.
Challenges in Horror Film Originality
00:12:22
Speaker
They
00:12:22
Speaker
agreed, but I'm talking about the new remake with Mark Hamill. I love the Chucky series. I'm a big fan. My husband's a big fan. We were really excited for the new season of the show, but a couple of years back, they made a remake of Chucky and we're like, okay, sweet. And they're like, oh, Mark Hamill is gonna voice Chucky. And we're like, okay, we love some Mark Hamill in this house. We sit down and watch and we're like, how did Mark Hamill agree to do this?
00:12:46
Speaker
The movie starts off with the usual original Child's Play, where it's like Christmas time, I think, and it's a single mom who's actually Audrey Plaza. Love her. And she gets her kid this doll. But the thing is, it's different from Child's Play because they don't have just a talk box. They're actually their own personal little Alexis. Now these chucky dolls.
00:13:07
Speaker
And it's completely ridiculous the whole time because this Chucky is not just has a serial killer inside him, but this Alexa is like taking control of all this machinery. Like even at one point it takes over a electric saw and makes it go slinging across the room. And I'm like, how? There's no Bluetooth in an electric saw. And this Chucky one point kills this one guy in a watermelon filled in New York in the middle of winter with thresh melons everywhere.
00:13:35
Speaker
And I just feel like there is a fine line with comedy and just cheap, not cringe comedy that doesn't meet the marks of comedy in horror. And that is the newest film I can think of that hits all the points of what makes a horrible comedy horror.
00:13:50
Speaker
Going back to what you were saying before about the adaptability of these films, because something that might have been scary in, as we said, the time of Psycho in the 1960s, I hope I got that right, to nowadays where, you know, as I said, they're more
00:14:08
Speaker
Well not all of them but most of them decide to be a little bit more flashy in terms of the way they present themselves and I suppose because there's so many of those films now you're getting this almost a sub-genre of horror that is the deconstruction genre. If you look at Shaun of the Dead or Cabin in the Woods
00:14:30
Speaker
you know those kind of films that they decide to hone in on particular tropes like the oh don't split up we're all going to be killed oh no it's the teens beside the lake and you know all of these different things that is laughed at now but probably at the time maybe it laughed at then but maybe a little less so it is quite interesting to see how comedy as well was played a role in that but
00:14:56
Speaker
It also speaks volumes. If we take a series like, for example, Scream, where the whole premise is somebody getting phoned and, you know, what's your favourite scary movie and everything gets spoken down your ear, which I have to say fortunately never happened to me yet.
00:15:12
Speaker
I'm holding out hope that's going to be a continuous record. But yeah, it's interesting to think that a concept back in the 90s where you didn't really have caller ID as opposed to nowadays where everyone's got a mobile phone and then you can see who's calling you. I mean, I don't know about you, but if I see an unknown number pop up on my phone, I don't answer it. I'm just like saying that to voicemails. I barely answer for people that do have caller ID.
00:15:40
Speaker
See, unless it's an immediate family or a really good friend, I'm like, should I answer this? Should I not? Is this a serial killer? You know what? I'm going to let it go to voicemail. Yeah, I'm like, you can text me. You can text me. Text me whatever you need. I don't want to talk on the phone right now. But I mean, if you take Scream and the core concept of that and then translate it into a modern setting, it just doesn't work the same, does it?
00:16:07
Speaker
No, and I feel like how they're doing the continuation with it is pretty good, but it doesn't hit the same marks because, you know, they just released, I think it was Scream 6 two years ago, and how they did it was just continue the story and go back to its roots, but at the same time, you know, they can't really do phones and iPhones and Color ID. They tried a little bit, but they didn't push it like the originals.
00:16:27
Speaker
And they brought back making it the killer's kids and stuff like that. Like, you know what I mean. And I feel like, you know, that works. But if they remade Scream today, what would they do? They just airdrop little messages. That's all I could think of is like sending little, little memes and saying, I'm going to kill you. You know what I mean? And making the meme picture and airdrop it to these people's phones. That's the only way I feel like it could work.
00:16:49
Speaker
because I do not think Scream could work the same nowadays. And I love Scream, but it's one of those movies that you cannot just remake and expect it to hit the same, especially without Wes Craven.
Marketing's Impact on Horror Films
00:17:00
Speaker
It is strange though, because you get, and again it's like any other genre, you do get the
00:17:07
Speaker
core films or the core identities that everybody seems to rip off of. For your slashers, you've got, I know what you did last summer, as we said, you've got Scream and all of them, then you've got your supernatural films, you've got your, as you said before, your psychological, you know, you've got all these subgenres within it, but you always think of the one definitive film. When you think of psychological, you'll probably think, oh, maybe Psycho. You see a lot of other films
00:17:37
Speaker
like not as good. I don't know if you've seen the film on Netflix, it was called Killer Book Club. It pulled from kind of screen masks in the slasher genre and it's like these college students end up getting into an accident and they kill someone and then you know it's very much a
00:17:57
Speaker
Oh, who's phoning me to say, oh I know what you did? A bit like I know what you did the last summer, kinda pulling from that, but it does it in a really clunky way. Going off on that, do you think the horror genre is underrated or rather not taken as seriously compared to other films?
00:18:15
Speaker
I feel like Hollywood doesn't see its potential with money and all that. Like, yes, not every movie is gonna be a sellout and all that, and everyone has their own taste in horror movies. And yeah, there's more horror movies than ever, but I feel like they don't give enough money to them.
00:18:31
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, they don't put out enough ads, they don't try to advertise them enough. They just are like, you can do this movie, but I ain't gonna help you. This new movie that came out, me and my husband had no idea it came out. And we've been waiting for it. It's a new season king movie called The Bookie Man. We found out last night when we were clicking through things that you can already go and rent it. We're like, wait, it released? And I feel like they don't hype them up enough.
00:18:54
Speaker
I feel like when the Marvel movie Endgame came out, every single person knew about it, you know what I mean? Because of all the advertisements, all the hype, all the love that they gave to it to hype it up. And I feel like horror movies aren't appreciated that way. But I feel like they're more loved than other, more taken seriously.
00:19:10
Speaker
Because as a person that's in horror, it was really hard to get anyone to talk about horror, and social media is a great place. I found hundreds of people I can talk to about horror on Instagram and Twitter, other social medias, TikTok especially. And it all goes to the same place as our love for horror, but I feel like Hollywood itself.
00:19:28
Speaker
does not see the fandom and the horror fans and they don't care especially in budgets because a lot of horror movies you can see were suffering for budgets they gave so much money to Jaws I don't know if you know that like they had three different mechanical sharks and Jaws none of them waterproofed oh god
00:19:46
Speaker
Yeah, they had one that was only half fully sharked, not robot. And then they had another one was like the other half of the shark fully rode off. And they only had one shark fully skinned and shark life. They had to go through so much and each shark was over 250k a lot of money. And like, yeah, they give that money, but Steelberg still had to work with its limits. You know what I mean? Especially with the 80s with the technology then.
00:20:13
Speaker
That's why you do not see the shark. I think it's 100 and something minutes into the movie. It's over an hour in, I know that. You do not see the shark at all. And Silberg had to work with that because he didn't have all the funds. He couldn't keep spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on another shark and wait longer.
00:20:33
Speaker
but that actually does bring up a good point and I just want to quickly backtrack on to something you were saying before when you were talking about Hollywood not wanting to invest in particular films because you're completely right. I remember and maybe it's not traditionally a horror film although I think you could loosely describe it as a horror film. Have you ever seen a film called The Grey with Liam Neeson?
00:20:59
Speaker
Actually, no. I've never even heard of it. So it's a really, really weird one. I remember going to see this in the cinema. And the way that Hollywood and all the advertisers basically marketed this film was Liam Neeson fights wolves. You know, he's chasing them down, he's punching them. It seemed like a weird, non-thinking action film. But what it actually is, and this is probably one of the weirdest examples of marketing mismanagement, but it's basically this
00:21:27
Speaker
slow survival film where he's in a plane and he crashes with a group of other guys and they essentially just have to make it out, they have to try and get back to civilization, everything's trying to kill them and it's not like the traditional horror
00:21:44
Speaker
As I said, there's no biggy men, there's no supernatural entity, there's nothing trying to get them as such. It's just nature that's trying to get them, whether it's the cold, whether it's the mental fortitude that's just decaying. It's just such a fascinating film.
Critique on Gore-Heavy Films
00:22:01
Speaker
in that regard and granted it's been a while since I've seen it so I could be kicking myself in the face with that one but yeah it's interesting to see how they want more back sides on seats so they try to say it's the scariest film ever or oh it's one of the goriest films. Here's a potential controversial question here but have you seen Smile?
00:22:24
Speaker
I saw all the ads for it, didn't want to watch it, so I didn't. I wouldn't say I was rushing to see it, but my partner and I went out and about, and we had an evening to ourselves, and we went to the cinema, and we saw that it was being advertised, so we thought, you know what, let's try a horror film.
00:22:41
Speaker
you know, go out, let's see it in the cinema. Gonna be honest, it was terrible. I genuinely think it's one of the worst films I've seen. Not in terms of cinematography or, I mean, God forbid, even the acting was okay, but see when you've got a theatre full of people who are laughing at your horror film and the horror film's not a comedy, then you've really, really done something wrong there. Oh, yeah.
00:23:06
Speaker
I mean the audience were smiling and not in a, oh it's so spooky, it's like genuinely everyone was just laughing, rolling their eyes, just scoffing at the whole premise, at the scenes and everything. My partner and I, we were just laughing our backsides off at it. I mean it was good in that respect but again it's back to this viral marketing of, oh it's the scariest thing ever and
00:23:30
Speaker
it certainly does appeal to a certain demographic, like some people won't get sucked into it to say, oh we better see it, or on the flip side you've got your franchises, you know as we said you've got Scream, you've got Under What You Did Last Summer, your Nightmare on Elm Street, Halloween especially is a big one. Oh yeah. Even the Saw films, I think as of this episode the 10th
00:23:55
Speaker
Saw film, is it? Or it's called Saw X, so I don't know if that means it's a tenth film or more. They just wanted to be like edgy with it. I have no idea. I've only seen clips of Saw. I will not watch Saw. I think it's just a gorefist. There's a good thin line of good horror movies, thrillers, and all that. Then there's just the gorefist.
00:24:13
Speaker
Song is one of those films. As a horror fan, I love some good horror aspects. Like, I love Thirteen Ghosts. I don't know if you've seen that one. That one has a lot of gore. It's very gross. All that, but it still has good story. It's not overly done. It's not throwing it in your face. It shocks you with its gore and its scariness.
00:24:31
Speaker
Saul's just like, I'm going to torture you and people are going to enjoy this Thor film. Like the whole story is, I'm going to torture you for fucking me over. And I don't appreciate that. I want actual story.
Practical Effects vs CGI in Horror
00:24:41
Speaker
I want more than just like people getting their foot smashed in with a hammer or whatever, or having to dig a key out of the leg.
00:24:48
Speaker
I can't stand those kind of films. They get so advertised. I get ads for that all the time. Not like real ads because obviously they can't just show ads score all the time but they show little clips and little pictures of ads everywhere. I've been opening TikTok for weeks seeing this all ad.
00:25:04
Speaker
yeah i have to say that's been popping up my end as well when it's the guy with the whatever he's got in his eyes you know to make the x and it's like oh go see this it's the goriest one it's the scariest one blah blah blah and you're right really
00:25:19
Speaker
I am totally with you there. It's one thing if a film is bad but at least maybe trying or it's bad so it leans more into like ironic comedy and you're like I don't really like that either but for me personally as well I don't see the point in those kind of films.
00:25:41
Speaker
You know, you've got your solace, your, God forbid, human centipede. All of these films that go out of the way to shock you. And there's hundreds of films out there that are probably just as bad, if not worse, that build upon trying to shock the audience. And don't get me wrong, there are ways to do it. You can build up atmosphere, you can actually sit down and write good characters.
00:26:04
Speaker
I sound like there's plenty of horror movies that don't have any blood to them, just the scare. Okay, Tim Burton is not a horror movie person, you know what I mean? But he knows every aspect of horror films, like I was saying about E-Beetlejuice earlier. Beetlejuice, 9 More for Christmas, Corpse Bride, even freakin' Weenie.
00:26:23
Speaker
They all have that classic vibe of spooky, Halloween, undead, especially courtside and whatever Christmas. They all have things to do with the dead and they all have that same vibe. But are they horror movies? I don't think so.
00:26:39
Speaker
Do they have horror aspects? Yeah, but they're kids' movies, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, there's kids' horror, like, goosebumps, but that's not the same thing. Honestly, I feel like Tinburn can make an amazing horror movie, but it doesn't have to have any blood. I can't think of a scene in any movie besides Thrink and Weenie that has blood, you know, like anyone getting harmed.
00:26:58
Speaker
Yeah, at the beginning of Beetlejuice, the couple dies and they get a little harmed, you know, as ghosts, but no one gets hurt. Honestly, like I was saying earlier, like Beetlejuice itself has every aspect of the horror movie. It has the beginning where it draws you in, the tragic death, all that kind of stuff, you know what I mean? But then you have the unexpected family and then they get tortured by this ghost that because that couple wants them out. And I feel like that's a good example of the horror movie that's not a horror movie that doesn't have any core.
00:27:28
Speaker
i know that's a silly concept no that's a completely valid point you're right there are ways to scare people without having anything gory or you know two over the top the example i always go for is i've used in a cartoon called courage the cupboardly dog yeah so you remember the slob guy
00:27:49
Speaker
Oh yeah. He gave me nightmares as a kid. He gave me nightmares. I actually remember being young and one of my brothers was like, oh, what are you watching? And I was like, oh, I'm watching the show called Courage the Covered with Dog. Oh, it's so good. Let me show you this episode. And what I didn't realize was it was that episode. And I was so terrified that he had to turn it off. Yeah, I mean, there's no blood in that as such.
00:28:12
Speaker
but the horror, the kind of jankyness of it, it doesn't need to be, as you said, it doesn't need to be over the top. Because I even remember, and this is like a completely niche side tangent here, so apologies, but I always remember when I was younger, in primary school, so I was between about maybe five to seven years old, we had to watch this BBC programme about, I think it was about environmentalism or something like that, and
00:28:38
Speaker
the whole plot was while they are trying to stop these evil business owners building, I don't know, a factory or something in the middle of nowhere, this alien crash lands. And honestly I'll need to send you the clip of this by the way because words do not do it justice but there's this just really creepy bit at the end where they show you the monster or rather the alien for the first time and he's like wandering in the darkness on a beach
00:29:05
Speaker
Just this random British beach. He's just walking from side to side. It looks like a pine cone. It looks like something from Star Trek, but you can't see him at that point. He's shrouded in darkness. That terrified me for weeks. I was distraught. I was like, oh my god, it is horrifying. But that's the thing, though. It's like it doesn't have to be, as I said, over the top and everything.
CGI in Modern Horror
00:29:29
Speaker
This kind of leads on to something that you had brought up to me before we started recording, and something you mentioned earlier about practical sharks, as it were, and that is the idea of the practical effects versus people using CGI effects, because let's face it, ever since the dawn of the 2000s and the new millennium, practical effects are, I wouldn't say they're a dying arc,
00:29:55
Speaker
they're rare. They're definitely swapped out compared to what it is now which is a shame because you see people who are just they're so in love with the horror films and I know you are as well a big fan of practical effects as well but do you feel as if that is the case though that CGI has almost dominated the horror genre now in horror films?
00:30:19
Speaker
I think it has a very big effect. The new movie Megan. I think it was Megan with the doll. I didn't even watch it because just watching the trailers, you know, like we were talking about earlier with comedy, it just wanted to be a new Chucky, but more trashy. And I couldn't get behind that. But I feel like the doll is overly CGI, but it's not scary. It just looks like a computer program.
00:30:39
Speaker
And I love Chucky because it was overly rubber, very ridiculous doll, almost looks like a puppet. You know, it's scary to me. Meghan didn't scare me. It looked like it was wearing filters to make it look prettier or more, I don't know how to describe it, but it didn't scare me just from the picture. Like Annabelle gave me more nightmares and I don't even like those movies. Meghan just looked literally ridiculous, overly CGI'd. I didn't even give it a chance, to be honest. My family was like, oh, you need to go see it. It's so good. And I'm like, I'm not feeling it.
00:31:09
Speaker
And I love practical effects because they add so much more love to the movie because they're putting time and effort and thinking of it, like thinking of how this can be more realistic. Do you know how many doors they went through in The Shining for the iconic here's Johnny scene? Guess how many doors they went through?
00:31:26
Speaker
I'm gonna go for a safe 10 maybe? 60 real wood doors. Oh my god. 60. Because Jack Nicholson himself was like, hey, I used to be a volunteer fireman. I know how to break down a door really easily. They were going through five full doors like it was
00:31:43
Speaker
nothing so they started having to use real wooden doors like thick wooden doors and they used a real axe and to get the iconic shot they went through 60 doors and you know the iconic elevator scene guess how long it took to get it the perfect shot
00:32:00
Speaker
probably a few weeks maybe a whole year wow because it would take weeks to clean it up and then refill it with all that blood because they did it themselves they filled up that whole elevator with all the fake blood so it would take days to clean that hallway to make it perfect and look like there was no blood before you know but yeah like that's all they had back in the day but that just made the movie more worth it at the end i feel like
00:32:24
Speaker
that they put so much time and effort into these movies, it just adds its charm. And I'm not saying Shining's the best movie ever. I have a lot of critiques with it. It's very different from the book. I love when movies stay more true to the book. And even like Stephen King wrote the script for the movie, right? The director completely changed a lot.
00:32:43
Speaker
completely took out the part of the maze where the animal-shaped bushes come to life and start attacking them. And then little things that caused Jack Moore to go insane. Jack just simply just started going insane. Honestly, I do love that movie because of the practical effects. But a movie that I like really that came out
00:33:00
Speaker
kind of recently that has really good practical effects. Doctor Sleep. And I know that's going off the shining and all that, but it had really good effects. And it had not only practical effects, but also CGI. And they recreated a lot of old scenes to make it for now. They had a lot of actors that aren't alive anymore, obviously, because it's been like over 40 years since the movie came out. And they CGI'd it onto their sons and stuff like that. The old man,
00:33:26
Speaker
that helps Danny know about his shining, The Shine. They CGI'd him into the new movie of Dr. Sleep. And I thought it was so nicely well done, not ridiculous, just nice and subtle, that it had just the same touch as The Shining. But
Evolution of Horror with Technology
00:33:42
Speaker
But they have a little more horror, like there's this one scene in Dr. Sleep where the main bad person, I can't think of the name suddenly, I'm horrible with names, I'm sorry, but it's the lady with the hat and she's going through the files of the girl's head because I love that imagery of our brains are just files, you know, and she's in the girl's head and going through files to get her secret and the girl is actually aware of the lady being in her head.
00:34:05
Speaker
slams one of the file cabinets on the lady's hand the lady in the hat and it actually hurts her in real life and in the dream her fingers were like split in half and bruised and bloody it's kind of practical sex but it's mostly CGI and it does not even look like CGI and I feel like that's a good example of CGI can't be used they're good but movies like Megan overdo it overuse it and just expect it to win and I feel like that's a cheap way out of horror movies
00:34:30
Speaker
As you said, back in the day they didn't really have much of a choice. You either went with those practical effects or you didn't have a film. You obviously couldn't throw things or hurt people in real life but... Exactly. For nowadays, you know, you do have this amazing feature with CGI because obviously it must save a lot of time for people. And money. And money as well, that's true. To be able to just click a button and be able to recreate those scenes. I don't get me wrong, I do think
00:35:00
Speaker
on the one hand that is amazing that they're able to do that but on the flip side you then get into the territory of, and again these aren't really horror films but more your avatars or your you know people star wars those kind of things that when you watch them back they are just heavily depending on CGI that you think that hasn't held up whereas if you look at films like
00:35:27
Speaker
Lord of the Rings, for example, they use a combination of practical effects and CGI, and the way they kind of mesh those together is just near enough perfect. You know, obviously CGI is a very finicky thing. It's not always going to hold up, but even when you get practical effects that maybe don't hold up the same,
00:35:47
Speaker
Oh definitely, there's a movie with practical effects that I gotta mention for that, and that's the thing. I love the practical effects, I love the monster in there, but it would not hold up nowadays. I don't know, you haven't seen it with the creature in it, it's blobby, it's obviously a puppet, it's very well done for its time, but it would not hold up today in 2023 for creation. I would be afraid of them doing a remake of the thing nowadays.
00:36:13
Speaker
Because, well, the creature in the original movie is outdated now. I don't want to see it redone as a CGI horror thing. They actually wanted to make the creature stop motion, like Clay Amation back in the day. But they're like, no, we don't have enough time. We don't have enough budget. Just.
00:36:30
Speaker
That actually reminds me of a particular film when they said stop motion there. It reminds me of the, and this is a topic that my friend and co-host Adam and I talked about extensively for, or this is going to spoil the movie, but our Terminator month, where we're talking about the very first Terminator film and how we considered that initially to be, again, not in the traditional sense of a horror film, but definitely more akin to like a slasher film.
00:36:59
Speaker
At least back then I considered it to be a near perfect film of its genre, like the way they build up suspense, the way the effects still hold up for the most part. I mean, the only thing that doesn't hold up is the stop motion. See you then.
00:37:14
Speaker
between the stop-motion and the fake head for Arnie where you know he peels back the skin and it's the robot skull and everything. See beyond then though I feel as if it gives it more of a creepy factor because that's one of those films that are
00:37:29
Speaker
but that's one of those film franchises that has now evolved into just being purely CGI with maybe a couple of practical effects thrown in to be like oh look we still do practical effects and it's like well not compared to what you used to and I get why as I said I get why they do it cost and time and everything like that but it is quite a shame that they are losing their somewhat magic
00:37:56
Speaker
Yeah, but we could say that about even Star Wars or like any sci-fi film. They're losing the touch like they used to because the movie industry has completely changed in the last 20-30 years. Like it's not the same beast it used to be.
00:38:12
Speaker
And I understand why they have to keep making changes because hell, technology just keeps advancing every day.
Enjoyment of Bad Horror Films
00:38:19
Speaker
I just feel like it's all about passion, love. You put it into a horror movie. That's what makes a horror movie good. What is the director? I cannot say the right name right, but he made all those twist ending movies, you know, M. Night Shyamalan. There it is. He made a lot of good horror films, but a lot of them you can see from the beginning what's going to happen. It's not really a twist.
00:38:39
Speaker
The good example is the grandparents' movie. I can't think of the name suddenly. But it's when these two kids go to visit their grandparents. They sneak off to go visit their grandparents because their mom always kept them hidden from their grandparents and they didn't understand why. And they signed at them in this little town and they sneak off to go stay with their grandparents for the summer.
00:38:59
Speaker
And they get there and things are a little wacky. Grandma sundowns, grandpa poops in the shed, they're like, what the heck? And the whole twist ending, you know, is it's not actually the grandparents, their grandparents got locked in the basement or I think killed. And these people took over their lives from the nursing home, the grandparents helped that. And they care to kill these kids and all that. And they're like, what the heck? That was the whole twist ending. And honestly, it was kind of very mild. And it was supposed to be a full horror movie, you know? And the only scene that scared me in that whole horror movie
00:39:28
Speaker
was when the grandma was running after the kid playing hide and seek under the crawlspace. And I saw that movie in theatres. I have to admit, I know exactly what the following are talking about though. It's definitely one of those things in terms of because we were talking about films losing their luster over the years.
00:39:46
Speaker
Yeah. Because I mean even with M. Night Shyamalan, he has done some really good ones, you know, The Sixth Sense and films like that are the ones, you know, he would usually go to, but then for every Sixth Sense you've got a happening. Oh yeah, the latest one I could think of that is my favorite.
00:40:03
Speaker
Before we wrap up and give our final thoughts, one thing I'm curious to hear your opinion on is horror films that are intentionally bad. How do you feel as if they rank? So like your Burdemics, your Shark Natives, your Titanic 2s, you know, those films that go out the way to be as cheesy as possible. Do you think they have a place within the hierarchy of good horror films or
00:40:31
Speaker
Do you feel as if they should just be cast away into a dark corner and never talked about again?
Zelfia's Streaming Journey
00:40:37
Speaker
Oh no, I love talking about cheesy bad horror. That is supposed to be cheesy bad horror. Me and my husband just love sitting down for the night and finding the cheesiest movie we can find. Like there's this one movie called Monkey Shines.
00:40:50
Speaker
I don't think it's supposed to be not serious, I think it's supposed to be serious, but it's the most ridiculous movie ever. This guy gets paralyzed from a car crash and he gets this monkey to be its little assistant. You know, like a service dog, but a monkey butler type deal that gets him his snacks or brings him his mail, ties his shoes, you know, that type deal.
00:41:09
Speaker
And the monkey freaking miseries him. It literally becomes obsessed with this man, and I'm in love with this man, that it holds it hostage, cos and kills people he's upset with, and keeps him hostage the whole movie. And it's so weird. Me and my husband talk about it all the time. We don't understand what was the point of this movie being made, but we want to show all our friends. And another cheesy horror movie I can think of that was supposed to be cheesy, The Barbarian. That's a New Age movie.
00:41:35
Speaker
I love that movie. It's supposed to be cheesy, but it has such good effects and it has a very hilarious story. It just came out recently. It's on HBO Max. I don't know what it would be for you since I don't think you have HBO Max.
00:41:49
Speaker
I think it came out in Amazon here. Amazon Prime. It's weird because I did watch it. I'm trying to remember if it was on Netflix or Amazon or Disney. Ah, there's too many. But anyway, sorry. But no, I watched that and I was expecting a real horror movie, but it seemed like a normal horror movie. It's thirst. And then it just became so ridiculous by the end. You're just like laughing. Oh my god, I can't believe this.
00:42:12
Speaker
But it was so well done that, honestly, it's up there with, movies all recommend it's a real horror. And yeah, it'll throw them off how ridiculous it is, but it's generally scary at some points. I can't believe it. And then another comedy horror, I was literally ranting about this last night, the movie Tusk. I don't know if you've heard of it. Any Kevin Smith hand? Yeah, I know of it. I love the whole premise because do you know why they created this movie? I feel like I'm not gonna like the answer, but go ahead.
00:42:40
Speaker
Oh no, it's hilarious. I think they were at a bar or something where they were looking at Craigslist ads one day. They were just goofing off and they see this Craigslist ad. And this man is like, you can live with me for free in my apartment, completely free of rent, but you must dress in a warless outfit. And I think sing me a little song every couple of weeks or listen to my stories. It's one of the two. It was just very off the wall. Kevin Smith saw this and all that and he was laughing his ass off. He's like, what is this horrid story?
00:43:08
Speaker
What is the whole point of this is this torture like is this what is this? So he made a whole horror script off of it and made it a freaking movie based off this Craigslist ad and it was supposed to be funny It's supposed to be crunchy. It's supposed to be ridiculous and out there
00:43:23
Speaker
And I absolutely love it because they're being serious in the movie, but they're not really being serious. The whole creation of Mr. Tusk himself is horrifying. And I love it. Honestly, like those movies deserve a place in horror. Yes, it should be a sub genre with like, you know, psychological, sci-fi, those types of feels, but they have a special place in my heart. And I honestly feel it's a perfect kind of horror movie, just more lighter.
00:43:47
Speaker
Oh, it certainly is, yeah. I feel as if a lot of these films like Taska and Human Centipede, you know, those kind of films, they always seem to start off as like a conversation, a what-if, if you will. You know, a what would happen if X did Y? And you're like, oh, no.
00:44:06
Speaker
Please don't make us a movie! And of course they do, but honestly you've made some absolutely fantastic points. And yeah, before we wrap up, for those people out there listening who maybe aren't into the horror genre, what would you recommend in terms of them trying to get their foot in the door?
00:44:25
Speaker
Oh, I would recommend The Village. That is like one of the first horror movies I watch. It's not gory, it doesn't really have that many jump scares, and honestly at the end you're like, it's a breath of fresh air at the end of the movie. The Village is the perfect horror feel of the movie, but not too scary. I feel like it's more the thriller, but it still has some horror to it.
00:44:48
Speaker
I'll need to add that on to my list as well. Highly recommend. Honestly, Sophia, it has been an absolute pleasure having you on, talking about horror films and indeed what makes a good horror film on this very spooky night of Halloween. So thank you so, so much for coming on.
00:45:05
Speaker
Thank you for having me on and let me info dump on you. No, it's always been really interesting. I'm going to need to keep those facts for later in case we ever have a trivia episode and I can just throw the facts at my co-hosts and be like, ah, I bet you didn't know it took a year to get the perfect shot in the shining. But before we wrap up, of course, where can these lovely listeners at home find your content?
00:45:28
Speaker
They can find me on Twitch, under ZylthiaMaw. I don't know if anyone wants me to spell it, but yeah, I'm on Twitch, I'm on Twitter. I have Instagram, but I haven't really opened it up to the public yet. But yeah, I'm a small time content creator. I just hit where I can be affiliated and I'm working out all those little details right now. I like just playing little comfort games and just chatting with my followers and asking how their day is and just joking around. I'm just here for a good time, not to make money or anything
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:45:57
Speaker
like that.
00:45:57
Speaker
I just enjoy making content and talking to my followers. And I would completely echo that if you're looking for a fantastic and comfy stream then definitely go check out Zilphia Moth at Twitch and of course everywhere else you said and once again thank you so much for coming on. If you would like to hear more of our content then you can check us out on our website chatsanami.com as well as all good podcast apps.
00:46:25
Speaker
just look for the red panda under the name chat tsunami and yeah we'll see you there. I also want to give a huge shout out to our pandalorian patrons Robotic Battle Toaster and Sonya thank you so so much for supporting the channel and if you would like some exclusive content on this wonderful spooky day then you can check it out at patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami but until then stay safe stay awesome and most importantly stay haunted.
00:47:00
Speaker
Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
00:47:12
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated. Hi, I'm Zethalia Moth. I'm a streamer. I like to goof off on my Twitch with my friends and chat.
00:47:40
Speaker
If you catch me live, you will either see me on a chill game while I hang out with chat or playing a multiplayer game with my friends. Either way, you'll always catch me paying attention to chat. I'm always here to talk. My whole goal as a streamer is to make sure you know you are another alone. You can find me at SathyliaMoth on Twitch, Z-E-L-P-H-I-A Moth on Twitch TV. Thank you.
00:48:04
Speaker
This episode is sponsored by Zenkaster. If you're a podcaster that records remotely like me, then you'll know how challenging it can be to create the podcast you've always wanted. That's where Zenkaster comes in. Before I met Zenkaster, I was put a naive podcaster, recording on low-quality, one-track audio waves.
00:48:21
Speaker
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