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Not What You Thought: Real Faith, Unexpected Journeys - Jay's Story
32 Plays1 month ago
Not What You Thought invites you into authentic conversations with people whose paths to faith were anything but predictable. Through stories of doubt, hope, and discovery, you’ll find new ways to see God at work—even in the unexpected. This week features Jay's story!
To learn more about United Not Uniform and upcoming projects, check out unitednotuniform.com!
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Jay Garcia's Journey
00:00:49
Krystal Thomas
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to this week's episode of United Not Uniforms, Not What You Thought. I am here with the one and only Jay who is joining us.
00:01:02
Jay
Hello, friends. Thank much for having Crystal.
00:01:06
Krystal Thomas
Of course, of course. Now, for those of you who have been listening, this is a series where we're talking about the real journeys of faith. We're not really sugarcoating anything. We're not holding anything back. I think, as I've shared with all of you all earlier, there's just a need to really talk about what is the actual experience in following Jesus, living out your faith, and the ups and downs that come along with it.
00:01:26
Krystal Thomas
So we're so excited you're here for the ride with us, and let's just get started. So, Jay, do you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?
Growing Up in Faith and Cultural Background
00:01:35
Jay
Yeah, for sure. So my name is Jay Garcia. I'm originally from Central Oregon, from a small rural town. I grew up in the faith and then had quite a journey up until this point.
00:01:49
Jay
But I did school in the Boston area and then ended up finding myself in the business sector, which kind of took me all over the country.
00:01:50
Krystal Thomas
We love journeys. That's great.
00:01:59
Jay
And so I went back on the West Coast and then I did a short stint in St. Louis, Missouri, and then ended up in D.C. And so I've been here for about nine years and I currently work as a leadership coach and part-time for my church, the District Church. So shout out District Church.
00:02:17
Krystal Thomas
Woo-woo.
00:02:18
Jay
Yeah, that's right. And so that's a little bit about me. I love people. I love to hang out. I love people like you, Crystal, who are creatives and love to pick people's brains and kind of dig a little bit deeper. And so I'm super excited to be here today.
00:02:33
Krystal Thomas
Awesome. Like as you're going through like all the places that you've lived, I had no idea you were in Missouri.
00:02:39
Jay
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:40
Krystal Thomas
Whoa.
00:02:41
Krystal Thomas
I mean, besides like your hometown and DC, what was like your favorite place and why?
00:02:49
Jay
You know, yeah, I would have to say Boston for sure.
00:02:49
Krystal Thomas
I know I'm putting in the spot.
00:02:53
Jay
I think, yeah, Boston has a special place in my heart, mostly because it's a college, it's my college town.
00:02:54
Krystal Thomas
Oh, really? Oh,
00:02:59
Jay
And so I feel like I grew up a lot there.
00:03:00
Krystal Thomas
that's true.
00:03:03
Jay
It was also the time period where Boston sports were kind of on fire. So Celtics had just won, Red Sox were winning, Patriots winning all the time. So it was a fun, fun time for sure.
00:03:11
Krystal Thomas
Oh, boo.
00:03:14
Jay
Yeah.
00:03:16
Krystal Thomas
I love it. I love it.
Straying from Faith and Personal Crisis
00:03:18
Krystal Thomas
Well, Jay, we'd love to hear a little bit more about your faith journey. So can you tell us a little bit about your journey to faith? I think you hinted out a little bit how you grew up in the church, but yeah, feel free to share.
00:03:30
Jay
Yeah, for sure. I would love to share a little bit about that. So I grew up as, and just to give you some context again, small rural town. I'm a first generation Mexican American, and I grew up in a Pentecostal church.
00:03:44
Jay
So subculture mayhem, right? So you have Pentecostal, Mexican, small town, rural, first generation.
00:03:48
Krystal Thomas
Oh.
00:03:55
Jay
And so was quite a lot, but I grew up, Yeah, going to church quite a bit, a few times a week. I remember at one point we were going twice on Sunday. And so for me, faith at a very early age was something that I was relating to as a very strict type of experience. And so anything really regarding faith,
00:04:16
Jay
was very strict. My parents, you know, God bless their hearts. And I think I love them, by the way, this is not to throw any shade at them whatsoever. think they did the best with what they had at that time.
00:04:29
Jay
But we're very old school Pentecostals. And so lot of Old Testament was really brought up in their face in terms of the focus being not singing. And so growing up, it was always don't sin or that's good. This is bad.
00:04:45
Jay
Don't do that. That's bad. That's sinful. And so you can imagine. Yeah, that's kind of what my introduction to faith was. There were glimpses there where, you know, got kind of used to understanding what the Holy Spirit is.
00:05:00
Jay
Pentecostals do not shy away from the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, you know, so shout out to Pentecostals.
00:05:04
Krystal Thomas
That's very true.
00:05:06
Jay
And so there's, like to say, there's nothing in the faith world that can scare me because I grew up Pentecostal. And I believe that to be true to the...
00:05:16
Krystal Thomas
I feel like you need to put that on a shirt a little bit. I'm not going to lie,
00:05:20
Jay
right, you can't hear me, Pentecostal. Anyway, if anyone hears that and that gets out of this, we have it here recorded first. So, you know, we're safe.
00:05:34
Krystal Thomas
Working on the trademark, trademark pending.
00:05:36
Jay
That's right, that's right.
00:05:36
Krystal Thomas
Okay.
00:05:38
Jay
But back to my story. So
Reconnecting with Faith and Community
00:05:40
Jay
what ended up happening, Crystal, was that I... kind of grew up with this very distant relationship with God and in my faith.
00:05:47
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:05:48
Jay
And so when I went off to college, so from Oregon to Boston, was like, peace, I don't want anything to do with this.
00:05:57
Jay
This is too much. I'm good. And so I didn't identify with the Christian faith throughout my college years and clear up until the majority of my adulthood.
00:06:07
Jay
And so I pretty much was living, yeah, just like someone who didn't identify with the Christian faith up until I got to the DC and a few years into my time in DC.
00:06:18
Jay
And so thankfully for me, I came to a point in my life where I had built my identity in a lot of things that couldn't fulfill me anymore.
00:06:30
Jay
So essentially throughout college and in my professional life, I was really doing well.
00:06:35
Jay
I was getting into really competitive areas fellowship programs and internships. I was on the tennis team in college. I was traveling across the country for all sorts of things.
00:06:47
Jay
I was getting into competitive leadership programs. And so that kind of almost reinforced this kind of distance I had from God. I was like, okay, well, things are going pretty well and I'm doing whatever I want. So why would I want to get back into this very strict and rigid lifestyle?
00:07:04
Jay
Again, this is without me fully understanding who God was And so what ended up happening was fast forward until the age of 27, 28 years old.
00:07:14
Jay
I found myself in a pretty difficult situation. I had left my fancy consulting job to pursue an entrepreneurship venture. I am a serial entrepreneur, for those of you who don't know.
00:07:25
Krystal Thomas
I like that.
00:07:26
Jay
And I left my job to start startup. And so do you want to guess what the startup was, Crystal? Crystal?
00:07:33
Krystal Thomas
Okay. I remember when you did this, this is going to really bad if I can't guess what it was. Oh no. I want to say tech just because that's an easy cop out.
00:07:45
Jay
Yes, it is tech, but what specifically in tech?
00:07:48
Krystal Thomas
No. Okay. You couldn't just let me have it. That's so mean. Specifically in tech. Okay. Okay. Could it be like something with like consulting with tech? Like we build something for you?
00:08:04
Jay
No, it was a dating app.
00:08:07
Krystal Thomas
Shut up. For real?
00:08:08
Jay
Yes.
00:08:10
Krystal Thomas
That's hilarious. For those who don't know, like Jay is the guy, if we're doing a singles event or we're trying to bring a bunch of people together, like he's the person that we all, that's so funny.
00:08:21
Krystal Thomas
That's hilarious.
00:08:23
Jay
All that to say, I clearly failed and did not go. And so, and so, uh, and that's just to kind of poke fun at that, but I really was passionate about starting a dating app.
00:08:36
Jay
I thought I had really unique idea and, it was kind of those times where you have a lot more confidence and ego than you do skillset and, uh, ability. And so unfortunately for me, I, failed at that startup and, uh,
00:08:52
Jay
Throughout that, also spent all my money, spent all my savings, went through a pretty bad breakup and was really struggling with a lot of health issues, mostly with anxiety and depression.
00:09:04
Jay
And so as you're hearing this, you can imagine that is quite a tumultuous And so it's quite a lot.
00:09:04
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:09:08
Krystal Thomas
Yeah, that's a lot in one year.
00:09:12
Jay
And so I found myself at a point where I was just self-destructing. I was really having a lot of patterns in my life that were really taking
00:09:16
Krystal Thomas
Mm-hmm.
00:09:20
Jay
taking everything away from me. And so I remember one morning I was just in my bed and I just couldn't get up. I was so depressed.
00:09:31
Jay
And for me, a state of depression looked like just numbness, complete numbness. I remember thinking to myself and saying out loud, like, if you are real, I want to figure it out.
00:09:44
Jay
Like, you're the only thing I have. You know, this is the only thing I can hang on to right now in this moment. And let me explore what it means to get to know you. And that at the age of 28 was what began my journey of faith until now.
00:09:58
Jay
And so.
00:09:59
Jay
Yeah, it's quite a journey to get to that point. And what's funny is that that was just actually the beginning of my journey, I would say, in really understanding who God is. But that was the decision or the time that I made the decision to really seek God, find myself a church, attend consistently, pour into it, and really start looking for opportunities to get to know him better.
Struggles with Mental Health and Faith's Role
00:10:21
Jay
And that's when, yeah, yeah.
00:10:21
Krystal Thomas
Wow.
00:10:24
Jay
Like in 2019. Nice.
00:10:24
Krystal Thomas
Jay, that's so cool,
00:10:26
Krystal Thomas
See, it's like you'll be at the same church and you never know like the full story. That's amazing.
00:10:31
Krystal Thomas
There were just so many things in your story. There's so many things that are so powerful. And I like wanted to like sit in. I do think especially myself growing up in the church and then leaving and coming back.
00:10:44
Krystal Thomas
especially like, so you, our church that we, we currently go to is a non-denominational church. So what was that like when you, like, how did you find the church? What made you to pivot?
00:10:56
Jay
Yeah, definitely. First, one of the kind of requirements I had in my mind is if I'm going back to church, I cannot go back to a place that really emphasizes how horrible of a person I am and highlighting like the sin aspect of faith. And so thankfully I had started listening to some podcasts from,
00:11:17
Jay
some of these mega church preachers. I know a lot of people like to hate on them. I don't because I think they serve a great purpose. And I started coming back to faith through some of these pastors who speak to larger audiences.
00:11:31
Jay
And so I'm really thankful for that.
00:11:31
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:11:33
Jay
And so the way I found the district church was really funny. This is back when Yelp was a thing. I don't think it's a thing as much anymore. Mostly Google reviews.
00:11:40
Krystal Thomas
Oh, you're going to get the Yelper's now.
00:11:42
Jay
I know, I know. I'm outing myself.
00:11:46
Jay
So, and I yelped in, I said, best non-denominational churches in DC. And the district church was number one at that time. And I'd be curious to search now and see if it's still number one. But yeah, that's how I found the church. And I literally just started going, picked the service and just started showing up.
00:12:07
Krystal Thomas
I love that. Wow. Yeah, it's so funny. We will do newcomers events and all these different things. And it's always so... Do not underestimate the power of Google.
00:12:17
Krystal Thomas
We want to say that it's through friends and Instagram and all these different ads. But honestly, lot of people are coming through Google.
00:12:26
Krystal Thomas
and I think another part of your testimony that was like, I think will really resonate with a lot of people, especially like as we're going into this fall season, we don't really talk a lot about mental health.
00:12:36
Krystal Thomas
We don't talk a lot about, depression and anxiety and all of these things that people, people feel like we're also human too.
00:12:45
Krystal Thomas
And so to be able to have, again, I'm sorry that you had to go through all of that and that it was in that crisis where you became curious again about who God is developing a faith for yourself.
00:13:02
Krystal Thomas
But I do also want to just name and acknowledge that there might be people who are listening who find themselves in a very similar place. And so what advice or advice what, what would you say to maybe somebody else who might be the same place that you were all those years ago?
00:13:16
Jay
Yeah, that's great, Crystal. I would give an encouragement, which is to please keep going. You know, I think oftentimes your mind can create your reality, even if reality itself isn't what you're able to see at that point in time. And so what I mean by that is I think our minds are very powerful tools.
00:13:40
Jay
that at times can kind of betray us. And so the world might seem smaller than it is. Hope and possibilities might seem limited based on how we're currently seeing the world.
00:13:48
Krystal Thomas
Wow.
00:13:51
Jay
But if you're able to, you know, take a moment, take a deep breath and just start with a baby step, I think that could get you somewhere. And that's all. And I'm essentially talking to myself at that point in time, which is like,
00:14:05
Jay
the only thing I could hang on to, the only ounce of hope was the church, was, hey, I don't even know if this is real. This is just what my parents used to say was real. So this is the only thing I have. I no longer have my money, my fancy job.
00:14:20
Jay
I no longer have this relationship. I lost a lot of my friends, mostly through self-isolation. And so, yeah, and obviously, I think giving Jesus Christ a chance will be the best decision you ever make.
00:14:36
Jay
And
00:14:36
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
Challenges in Maintaining Faith
00:14:37
Jay
you don't believe it, look at me.
00:14:39
Jay
Oh yeah.
00:14:40
Krystal Thomas
And me, because honestly, Jay, when you were sharing, I was like, oh my gosh, why does Jay's story kind of sound a lot like, but it's like, it was at that moment of like, I have nothing left, but I remember how I used to feel.
00:14:51
Krystal Thomas
Like I remember the God of my youth. Right. And so, yeah. again, just like emphasizing the wise words that Jay said, it's like,
00:15:02
Krystal Thomas
a step at a time, right? The things that give you hope not to self isolate. Yeah. So thank you so much for sharing that. I've been giving Jay so many curve ball questions and he's just like knocking it the park.
00:15:14
Jay
No, I love them.
00:15:14
Krystal Thomas
Thank you so much.
00:15:15
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:15:16
Jay
Yeah. And I even want to double click on a couple of things there. I know me, the topic of anxiety and mental health came with a lot of shame and judgment for myself.
00:15:26
Jay
For one, as a man, I think it's always feels, you know, Like I shouldn't be feeling certain things. Like I shouldn't be feeling lonely or sad or anxious or defeated.
00:15:39
Jay
These are things that I grew up with and a lot of cultural elements and things also come into that as well, which is like, what are you crying around for? definitely grew up in that type of environment and also and my siblings joke around about it a lot, but anxiety and depression weren't things that we grew up with.
00:15:51
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:15:57
Jay
Like they weren't...
00:15:58
Krystal Thomas
That's true. It's like, you just feel very sad today.
00:16:01
Krystal Thomas
It's like, no.
00:16:02
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:16:03
Jay
They were seen as made up things or excuses to get out of doing work. And had never fully, I had never experienced anxiety my life.
00:16:12
Jay
And so I was very much so on that train. It was just like, man, what are these people talking about? And then it hits you in like a brick wall and you're like, whoa, what is going on? I cannot control my thoughts.
00:16:22
Jay
And it's 10 a.m. and I'm calling my mom crying for the third time today. And so if that is you, No shame. We love you. You are loved.
00:16:30
Krystal Thomas
Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:31
Jay
You're human being and you will get through this. You will get through this. And so I just want to know that.
00:16:37
Krystal Thomas
That's amazing, Dre. Yeah. And I will say also, like, for those who are on medication, of course, there's no shame, right? I know for me, when I was really in a low place battling with depression and anxiety, I started going to counseling and it was so transformative for me too.
00:16:52
Jay
Hmm.
00:16:52
Krystal Thomas
So again, this is not what you thought.
00:16:56
Krystal Thomas
We're being real, right? And it's time for us to talk more about these things that come with being human, right?
00:17:04
Krystal Thomas
that remind us again, our hope is in Jesus we have this gift of community, but I do think,
00:17:06
Jay
sure.
00:17:10
Krystal Thomas
an area of opportunity or growth is that we just allow more space to be real about these things that we're all facing. So Jay, thank you so much for being vulnerable and opening up with that aspect of your story.
00:17:23
Krystal Thomas
My next question, which, you know, kind of segues nicely with what we've been talking about. What has been something that has challenged you regarding your faith in your relationship with the Lord?
00:17:36
Jay
Yeah, I love this question because I think it's something that we don't talk a lot about. And so I think for me, would say when accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior for my own, in my own life, your life changes completely for the better, and it also stays the same.
00:18:00
Jay
And so...
00:18:00
Krystal Thomas
that's really good actually talk more about that that's so good
00:18:05
Jay
And so there is this amazing transformational identity that you've accepted now. Like I am now a son of the most high.
00:18:15
Jay
am now no longer bound to my sins. I'm no longer bound to this performative mindset and way of being. Yes, yes, yes. And I still have to deal with my temper and tell people to, or nicely and calmly tell them
00:18:29
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:18:30
Jay
back up off me. And I still struggle with, know, uh, lust and temptation and, and having to prioritize things.
00:18:32
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:18:39
Jay
Uh, and so it's not like all that stuff vanishes away. And I think there's this perception when you come into living, uh, or deciding to live a Christian life that everything's going to be perfect all of a sudden, or you're no longer going to sin or commit, you know,
00:18:56
Jay
Yeah, make mistakes. It's like, no, it's an active decision not to go out getting belligerently drunk. It's an active decision not to go out chasing tail left and right every weekend. It's an active decision to prioritize community and live a life of self-discipline.
00:19:10
Jay
Like those are active choices and decisions that you have to make that are met with tension. It's not like they're awesome decisions. You're just like, or easy decisions, better said.
00:19:21
Krystal Thomas
Right.
00:19:21
Jay
They're not decisions.
00:19:22
Krystal Thomas
It's like, yeah, this is so cool that I'm doing all these things. It's like,
00:19:25
Jay
Yeah. Or you know what, you know what I'd love to do is just stay quiet when this prison is pissing me off. Let me just, and so, and so that's been, uh, as a whole, something that's challenged me, which is just the understanding that, Hey, the, the, the journey is really actually beginning now.
00:19:42
Jay
and specifically for me, I will say, I think the challenge to continually choose Christ over myself is, is a daily struggle, which is, um, is,
00:19:50
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:19:53
Jay
Throughout our day, we have thousands of decisions we make and choosing the ones that prioritize my submission surrender to Christ over the ones where I want to take control and be independent of him.
00:20:09
Jay
And so that is my constant tension in all areas of my life, for sure.
00:20:15
Krystal Thomas
Oh, that's so good. And so real. Because I know when I made the decision to get baptized and it was like, yes, new life. This is awesome. And then like, it was like, I now was becoming more aware of the things that weren't good for me that I had been doing. And so you're also like, okay, this is how I used to live. And people like,
00:20:35
Krystal Thomas
noticing the shift, like you're the one that's changing in your friend groups, right?
00:20:39
Krystal Thomas
And thankfully, like I had people who really love me and care for me who were with me through that. And then there were also some friends that had to walk away, right? Or, so then you're grieving that on top of everything else that you're going through.
00:20:47
Jay
Yeah.
00:20:52
Krystal Thomas
but then it's like, like, it's like a whole new level of awareness, but there's also, new joy and a freedom that you could have never even imagined either. And so I do think it's important to name that tension. Like, those who don't know, Jay does a beautiful job in how he leads, people who are making the decision to get baptized.
00:21:11
Krystal Thomas
And, you know, people are in different stages of their faith walk, their faith journey. and, Like, it's like the aftermath that I feel like it's like something that I like you never like it's just so important.
00:21:25
Krystal Thomas
And I just think that you named and talked about that beautifully of like, yes, you've given your life to Jesus, you've surrendered everything. And, and the the journey, the work starts then, right? But then another reminder is that there's so much grace that we have the Holy Spirit. We're not doing this in our own strength, but the awareness, ooh, the way that shows up.
00:21:47
Krystal Thomas
I know for me, I was like, oh, wait.
00:21:50
Jay
Yeah, it's real. And what's funny too, is that I feel like it's the awareness becomes like this. It's just something just doesn't sit well with you anymore.
00:21:57
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:21:59
Jay
And then I've always been a lot more loose with my language than I'd like to admit, but I will throw out a little curse word here and there. And then that was one thing that immediately I felt like convicted of.
00:22:09
Krystal Thomas
it hurts a little bit. Yeah.
00:22:11
Jay
It's like, I felt like, oh man, like, did I really need to use that word there? Or, yeah, or just even like certain environments that I would be in, would just feel, man, this doesn't have the same joy or appeal as it once did.
00:22:26
Jay
And slowly I just found myself maybe choosing to be in different environments, spaces, listening to different types of music.
00:22:34
Jay
But yeah, it is quite funny to think about that awareness. It's kind of like you're now with eyes wide open.
00:22:40
Krystal Thomas
And I will, like, I'll speak for myself. I won't speak for Jay. I do want you guys to also know, like, we don't always make the best decisions, like the right decision. And what I mean by that is, like, I know for me, you guys have heard me talk about, you know, Maryland Driver.
00:22:56
Krystal Thomas
There are some lies that people tell about us, y'all. We just have different rules on the road, right?
00:23:01
Jay
Hmm.
00:23:02
Krystal Thomas
But like, even like, do you choose to like have road rage? Do you not? Like, how do you like, or like even in instances where you're maybe engaging with someone who's not necessarily being gentle or kind with you,
00:23:15
Krystal Thomas
but you know how you were called to live. Right. And there are times where I can be like, yes, I listened to the Holy spirit. I trusted in him and I behave like I, I lived in a way that was giving him glory. Right.
00:23:26
Krystal Thomas
And then there were times where like completely honest for, you know, human crystal came out and I was like, that could have possibly gone a different way. But again, reminder that there is grace. So I do also want to say like echoing what Jay said,
00:23:41
Krystal Thomas
Yes, there's new sense of awareness and you're living in that tension as you're growing and maturing in your faith. But it is a daily thing that we are all, no matter how long you have been Christian, that you're consistently having to surrender yourself to.
Understanding God's Unconditional Love
00:23:55
Jay
Yes.
00:23:56
Krystal Thomas
Right?
00:23:56
Krystal Thomas
Right. You'll be out here thinking we perfect. That's why it's so crazy.
00:24:00
Krystal Thomas
I was like, no, that's why we need a savior.
00:24:03
Jay
And if you spend enough time with me, you'll know immediately that I'm not.
00:24:08
Krystal Thomas
Grace, grace for both of us.
00:24:09
Jay
It's fine.
00:24:11
Krystal Thomas
So, Jay, I feel like you've touched on this little bit, but would just love to hear additional thoughts on what has been something that has surprised you your journey of faith and relationship with the Lord?
00:24:22
Jay
Yeah. I like the last word that you used, which is the grace. And so I think the access to love that I've been able to experience in my relationship with God has been, just something can't get anywhere else.
00:24:36
Jay
You just cannot...
00:24:37
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:24:37
Jay
fully comprehend what love means, in my opinion, until you understand the love God has for you. I think this has been one most radical shifts in my mind, which is you can't fully understand love. I don't know what love is as a concept or you can't fathom it.
00:24:52
Jay
until you understand how much God loves you. So someone loving you is the way you'll understand, not how much you can express it or experience it or have in your past, but it's just understanding what God has done for us.
00:25:03
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:25:06
Jay
It's just so humbling. And I think- for me, how my relationship to faith, to Christianity, to God was always this distant, authoritative, Zeus-like figure with the bolt ready to launch it at me.
00:25:22
Jay
And this is real crystal. Like I remember, you know, in college, like getting out of a party drunk and walking and thinking like, yeah, this is it. This is where he's going to strike me down I'm going to, like, it's really bad, really bad.
00:25:34
Krystal Thomas
I mean, honestly, yeah.
00:25:35
Jay
Yeah. And I literally remember thinking that you know, and just really being scared and anxious about God doing something to me.
00:25:46
Jay
And it's so unfortunate.
00:25:46
Krystal Thomas
Or needing to be perfect. Yeah.
00:25:48
Jay
Yeah. Yeah. And so because that's nothing like God's character. That is not God.
00:25:53
Krystal Thomas
Right.
00:25:54
Jay
That's something else that is not God. even remotely close to him. And so for me, I've been surprised at the amount of grace and love there is for my mistakes and my human condition, which is naturally always going to be sinful.
00:26:10
Jay
And the beautiful thing about it and how surprising it is, is that the choice on whether or not and how close I can get to God is up to me, you know? And so like, think about a relationship, right? Crystal. And like, if someone,
00:26:25
Jay
Does me wrong once, all right, I'll forgive him. Do me wrong twice. I'm a nice guy, so I'll forgive them too.
00:26:30
Krystal Thomas
The way that you said nice guy, I was like, ooh.
00:26:32
Jay
I'm a nice guy.
00:26:33
Krystal Thomas
to get there.
00:26:35
Jay
The third time you do me wrong, I'm about to check you and I'm about to say something. I can do God wrong day in, day out for years on end. And the moment I say, hey, I'm sorry, want to reconcile with you.
00:26:48
Jay
He's receiving me with his arms wide open. Like how beautiful is that?
00:26:51
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:26:52
Jay
And so that to me, to this day, keeps me in so much wander into just the vastness of his love for us.
00:26:53
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:27:02
Jay
And for those listening who aren't Christian, this might sound very like kumbaya, very like cheesy even. But I think if you ever get to the point of your life, in your life, where you're truly desperate and in need love, you'll understand how much you need God's love.
00:27:24
Jay
If you're ever desperate enough and broken enough in a place, you'll understand that you need someone to come and rescue you and save you. And, you know, thankfully, we have someone that's God and we don't have to
00:27:32
Krystal Thomas
yeah right
00:27:37
Jay
rely on people to save us because they're just as broken as we are. And so that's the thing that I want to highlight is it might not make sense for everybody, but for the people who are experiencing certain things in their lives and they know there's something else out there, but they just can't put their finger on it.
00:27:54
Jay
I can't recommend it enough. Oh,
00:27:56
Krystal Thomas
Yeah, no, for real. I mean, honestly, like, again, much, like, we're just going to have to have you back, Jay, because there's just so many things that we can talk about.
00:28:02
Jay
I'm about it.
00:28:05
Krystal Thomas
But like, especially with like, this fear of feeling and that there would be just punishment from God, right? Like, and what I want to be clear is what we're not saying is that we're out here just sitting in for free.
00:28:18
Krystal Thomas
We're not like thinking about it, right?
00:28:18
Jay
Yeah.
00:28:20
Krystal Thomas
That's not what we're saying. But what we're, but I do think there has been generation or maybe several generations where it's just been fear and not fear as like scripture will talk about, like in awe of God and of his power and of his majesty, but like literal fear of punishment, right?
00:28:39
Krystal Thomas
And so it makes it hard to understand or to even view God as being loving when you've only known him as someone who was ready to punish you the moment that you stepped out line.
00:28:51
Krystal Thomas
Yeah. And I think what you're talking about with love is so powerful.
00:28:51
Jay
Yeah.
00:28:54
Krystal Thomas
Cause I know for, for me as someone who I'm realizing a lot of like, similarly, lot of like identity value and worth was in what I could do or like title or all of these different things.
00:29:04
Jay
Hmm.
00:29:08
Krystal Thomas
And, you know, God in his very gentle way will sometimes strip those things away. And you're like, Ooh, is this what's left?
00:29:12
Jay
Hmm.
00:29:14
Krystal Thomas
It's
00:29:17
Krystal Thomas
But like then being able to experience love, his love, not by like what I had to do, it just was a gift, like to be able to receive it. And I'm finding out as I'm experiencing more of God's love, I'm able to love others better.
00:29:26
Jay
Yes.
00:29:31
Jay
Yeah.
00:29:33
Krystal Thomas
And so there's just like so much freedom now. And I get it. We've all been there where we're like, someone's talking about the love of God. Like, this sounds crazy. Like, what are you talking about? Like, trust we both have been there, right?
00:29:44
Krystal Thomas
But when you experience it, when you have, when you realize you really have nothing to bring or to offer, right? And all that he desires is our heart. It just, it's not from this world, right?
00:29:58
Jay
Yeah, that's a good way to explain it.
00:29:58
Krystal Thomas
It's just like much.
00:30:00
Jay
Yes.
00:30:01
Krystal Thomas
like out of the norm. And so for those who struggle with performatives, like having to perform to prove value, to prove worth, like, trust me, it's a lot to unlearn, right?
00:30:12
Krystal Thomas
But when we don't allow, like, there's just so much to God's character and his nature that we miss if you only view him in the way of like,
00:30:23
Krystal Thomas
being the punisher, right?
Authenticity in Christian Faith
00:30:25
Jay
Yeah.
00:30:25
Krystal Thomas
Like, that's just not even like, just can't. I'm sorry. I like, I'm not going go through the whole chapter.
00:30:30
Jay
No, it's good to highlight because I think I think it's important, too, for those people who aren't acquainted to who God is to kind of describe his character.
00:30:36
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:30:38
Jay
And so the way I like to say is that God isn't this.
00:30:45
Jay
it mythical? Mystical?
00:30:48
Krystal Thomas
Okay, there we go.
00:30:48
Jay
What is it?
00:30:49
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:30:49
Jay
Like this, this like, uh, genius, like, again, Zeus, like figure with his arm crossed waiting to say, make it, you don't, you, you make it, you don't. That's not God's character. God cares a lot more about who you are and who you are becoming than what you do.
00:31:07
Jay
That's, that's literally it.
00:31:07
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:31:08
Jay
And thankfully for us, who we are was already defined by him.
00:31:12
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:31:13
Krystal Thomas
Our identity as an end.
00:31:13
Jay
So we already, yeah.
00:31:15
Jay
So we kind of already have the blueprint for, you know, who we are, right? And part of this search and this need to feel fulfillment in today's modern day culture and seeking this and seeking that in order to find fulfillment comes from us not being reconciled with God because God's the only one that can truly bring us fulfillment.
00:31:35
Jay
And so if you're out here working 80 plus hours a week, I've been there.
00:31:35
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:31:40
Jay
If you're out there trying to date, whoever to get that. I've been there. If you're out there spending money, traveling the world to try to get that, I've been there, friends. And I'm telling you, I'm telling you, please just explore what it means to have a relationship with God.
00:31:57
Jay
I can't stress that enough.
00:32:00
Krystal Thomas
Oh, so good. So good. Again, just, I feel like this flows really beautifully into the next question. What is the biggest misconception about being Christian?
00:32:14
Jay
Yeah, man, this is a, man, all these questions are awesome.
00:32:18
Krystal Thomas
I know I do like really big questions. So I realized I was like, man, I was really like stretching everyone.
00:32:25
Jay
Yeah.
00:32:25
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:32:26
Jay
Well, and this will give your audience kind of a glimpse as to how introspective and deep you are. But I would say each one of the questions you've asked is probably an episode in and of itself.
00:32:32
Krystal Thomas
Aw, thank you.
00:32:36
Jay
Like one of the questions.
00:32:37
Krystal Thomas
If real, it really is.
00:32:39
Jay
I'm just saying, food for thought. Yeah.
00:32:42
Krystal Thomas
Maybe just do one. Got it.
00:32:45
Jay
By the way, do want to say this before I answer this question. I don't want people to think that I'm here just trying to, or the purpose of this is for me to recruit people to being Christian. Definitely not.
00:32:57
Jay
But it is in a way, right? Because...
00:33:01
Jay
The podcast, the episode, the talk is definitely, that's not the purpose of it. But my role, what I believe has been placed in my life and the drive for my purpose nowadays definitely is.
00:33:06
Krystal Thomas
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:14
Jay
But I wanted to make that clear distinction just so people aren't like, this is the recruitment podcast for believers. Yeah.
00:33:23
Jay
So one of the biggest misconceptions, I think, is that everybody who says they're Christian is Christian. I think.
00:33:32
Krystal Thomas
Can you, I'm sorry. Can you scream that?
00:33:35
Krystal Thomas
Say it loud for those in the back, please.
00:33:35
Jay
Yeah. Mm hmm. Everybody who says they are Christian are not Christian, friends. Please, please, please, please, please.
00:33:45
Jay
Don't fall into believing and accepting that just because someone says, I'm a Christian, or they got, you know, some verse on their Instagram bio, or, you know, or retweeting a TikTok.
00:33:58
Krystal Thomas
Man, they were tricking people and dating ass.
00:33:58
Jay
Just saying it, you know.
00:34:01
Krystal Thomas
It's rough out here. kid you not. There was someone who made up a book in the Bible and I checked. I was like, not even in the Apocrypha. It's nowhere. Like they just trick it.
00:34:09
Jay
Oh, gosh.
00:34:11
Krystal Thomas
It's crazy. Anyway, I'm sorry, Jay.
00:34:12
Jay
Yes.
00:34:13
Krystal Thomas
But at least I could do that.
00:34:13
Jay
No, this is good. It's good for us to talk about. But I would say that's the biggest misconception is that everyone who says they're Christian lives out a Christlike lifestyle. And that's just not true.
00:34:26
Jay
And I think, and no judgment to them. I think we as believers want to hold each other accountable the living a christian lifestyle but we can't force anyone to do that and that's the beautiful thing about being a christian is that it's based on free will right freely given is our will and we'll freely give it back if we so choose to do so and so i think the the next question i had i had a big conversation with a friend of mine over a couple of pints
00:34:45
Krystal Thomas
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:56
Jay
a few weeks ago on this. And he said, how can you be okay being a Christian knowing that others are claiming the same thing but aren't living up to it?
00:35:05
Jay
And I was like, man, and he's not a believer. And I'm like, you know what? That's a fair question. And here's the thing, though. My role as a believer isn't to make sure everyone who claims that being Christian lives Christlike lifestyle. My role as a Christian is to live a Christlike lifestyle, right? Love, think, and act like Jesus.
00:35:26
Krystal Thomas
Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:26
Jay
And it's to bear fruit. And so when people will say, okay, well, then how do you know if they're Christian or not? Well, would say, what is their life saying? What's the physical world saying? What does their relationships look like?
00:35:38
Jay
What does their generosity look like? What does their forgiveness look like? What do their habits and discipline look like? And I think that is very telling of whether or not they're living a Christlike lifestyle.
00:35:50
Jay
But I think there's just mass confusion around that.
00:35:54
Jay
And quite a few people think that as long as someone says they're Christian, or even if they go to church every Sunday, that means they're believers. And that's just not the truth, in my humble opinion.
00:36:04
Krystal Thomas
Yeah. Yeah. I love how you just like drop that and then try to like ease it over.
00:36:08
Jay
If
00:36:11
Krystal Thomas
I saw that.
00:36:11
Jay
you guys feel some type of way about this episode, make sure you email Crystal.
00:36:15
Krystal Thomas
No, but it's so true. And the thing is, it's like, and I do want to like, as Christians and as fellow believers, right. We're called to hold each other accountable in love, in love.
00:36:26
Jay
Yes.
00:36:27
Krystal Thomas
Right. But like exactly what Jay said, it's like, we're also being led and being guided by the Holy spirit. We are our trust, like in our relationship with God, being able to discern, is this for me to address?
00:36:38
Krystal Thomas
Is this not for me to address? What does this look like? Right. But I think share the same passion because I do think there are a lot of people are afraid to even explore a relationship with God because of people and because the way in which scripture and everything is being twisted.
00:36:59
Krystal Thomas
and distorted, right? Now, don't get me wrong. There are things in scripture that are hard, right? Like, it's not like we love everything about it. Like it does require to follow Jesus. There is a cost, right?
00:37:11
Jay
Yep.
00:37:12
Krystal Thomas
We are saying that the cost is worth it, but that doesn't mean that it's easy, right? And praise the Lord that we have Jesus and the Holy Spirit and that there's grace and all of these things.
00:37:24
Krystal Thomas
But I do, I think that's what breaks my heart is that Oftentimes those who are seen the most in like social media, things like that, there's no love. The fruit that's being born is more of division and of hurt and of shame as opposed like the fruits of the spirit. Right.
00:37:42
Krystal Thomas
And even in moments where there needs to be correction. Right. Is it in love or is it for likes? Like, come on now.
00:37:48
Jay
Yeah.
00:37:48
Krystal Thomas
Like, come on.
00:37:49
Jay
Yeah.
00:37:50
Krystal Thomas
Like, what's going on?
00:37:50
Krystal Thomas
And so. Yeah. And so I do think that that is, share in that same passion. I do think like, even you having this conversation with your friend who is not a believer, like that is such a gift to be able to like, it makes you not only think and be able to like go deeper in what it is that you believe.
00:38:10
Krystal Thomas
But I think it also allows us to have a mirror of this is what people see from the outside in. Because one the things that, you know, I'm trying to like help us get a little bit better at is that we're really good about being churchy within the church's walls and then waiting for people to adapt within, within what happens in the church's walls.
00:38:28
Krystal Thomas
And that's, again, that's another tangent.
00:38:28
Jay
Yeah.
00:38:30
Krystal Thomas
I'm sorry, Jay, I'm trying to keep you here for an hour.
00:38:32
Jay
No, no, I love this.
00:38:32
Krystal Thomas
just,
00:38:33
Jay
No, but you're right. And I mean, it does suck because, right, we can, in, cultural terms, we can see believers as the brand ambassadors.
00:38:41
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:38:44
Jay
So we're the brand ambassadors of Christ, of Christianity. And if we were doing it based on what scripture says, we're horrible. We should all be fired.
00:38:55
Jay
right? Like Christians, right?
00:38:56
Krystal Thomas
It's bad.
00:38:58
Jay
And so that's just something to be aware of is that we'll always fall short of the glory of God. Even people who are actively living, pressing in and really following Christianity to its core.
00:39:07
Krystal Thomas
That's true.
00:39:10
Jay
But there is a lot of confusion around what it is. Then you mix in politics, right? You mix in different, you know, I know we can go around that rabbit hole, but it's
00:39:16
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:39:20
Jay
It's a lot deeper than what people think, and it requires more than just putting a label and title over yourself. It requires a cost, right?
00:39:26
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:39:28
Jay
As Crystal mentioned, it's important to always note that.
00:39:28
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
Embracing Genuine Relationship with God
00:39:32
Krystal Thomas
Oh, so good. so the next question, what is an aspect of God's character that has impacted you? It sounds like there's so many, but are like one or two that really stand out to you?
00:39:42
Jay
Oof.
00:39:48
Jay
yeah, you know, think for me, a big part, I did short series at our church, which is called back then it was called my most important question, which is short series where you talk about question you're struggling with and wrestling with, with God about.
00:40:01
Krystal Thomas
Oh, yeah.
00:40:08
Jay
And mine was, will I ever be able to see myself the way God sees me? And so it was, yeah.
00:40:14
Krystal Thomas
Oh, that's such a good question, Jane.
00:40:16
Jay
And so was my summary on how I, to this day, still continuously struggle with performance mindset, which is how can I earn my way to God's grace?
00:40:23
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:40:25
Jay
How can I earn my way to get wife, kids, house, job, a Range Rover with black rims, X, Y, Z?
00:40:32
Krystal Thomas
Oh, that was very specific.
00:40:33
Jay
Yeah.
00:40:34
Krystal Thomas
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:37
Jay
The whole shebang, right? It's like, how can I earn everything, right?
00:40:40
Jay
Because used to earning everything and I'm so dang good at it or have been, right?
00:40:45
Jay
That's what my mind is telling me at least. And love the fact that God's character is about everything except that. It's not performance based. It's free, right?
00:40:58
Jay
Good stance with him is freely given through faith. And I think that's the thing that I just always... And so it almost sounds so easy that I can't conceptualize it, that I can't like internalize it.
00:41:13
Krystal Thomas
Yeah.
00:41:15
Jay
you know, and have it just like sweat out of my pores, which is like, there's nothing you can do to make you better for God. God loves you as you are, as broken as you are, as flawed as you are, as annoying as you are, whatever it might be. He loves me for who he created me to be.
00:41:35
Jay
And I think the aspect of the focus not being on that, but more so on God's focus on wanting to have a genuine relationship with me,
00:41:45
Jay
It's just beautiful. It's just beautiful. I don't think that doesn't exist. Or like to think... You know, I'm Latino, and so I will definitely say I'm romantic.
00:41:56
Jay
And there's this thing, think, when you are getting to know someone where all the things don't matter and you're actually genuinely curious in getting to know this person.
00:42:07
Jay
It's like, who are they? What makes them tick? What do they like? What annoys them? What's their favorite food? You know, what? What temperature do they need to have it in their house? Because only do 72 around here, girl.
00:42:17
Krystal Thomas
That's a good one.
00:42:20
Jay
But the point being is you fall in love with those things, right?
00:42:20
Krystal Thomas
Yeah. Right.
00:42:24
Jay
you don't fall in love with the looks or the superficial thing. And so, and how much more God, that's a lot deeper than us and truly created us. And so that's the thing that I am really impacted by.
00:42:38
Jay
It's just day in, day out. It's like, Hey, it's a constant reminder. He doesn't care about, you know, If you read one more chapter in the Bible, then not. He doesn't care if I type more or was able to give more when I made more.
00:42:51
Jay
He cares about whether or not I'm willing to create margin in my life to create space for him and I to connect. And that's beautiful to me.
00:43:00
Krystal Thomas
That's amazing. Jay, that's so good. made me think of Henry Nowen's book, Reaching Out.
00:43:08
Jay
Hmm.
00:43:08
Krystal Thomas
And there's a part where he's talking about loneliness, going from loneliness into solitude. And I think earlier you had mentioned like feeling lonely, all these things. I also struggle with loneliness and it doesn't matter like, it's like, I know I'm loved.
00:43:23
Krystal Thomas
I know surrounded by all these people who care about me, but like when it hits, it hits, right?
00:43:27
Jay
Mm-hmm.
00:43:28
Krystal Thomas
And in his book, he talks a lot about how loneliness often is like a threshold or like helps us realize that there's something missing. Right. And as you were saying, people will fill it with all these other different things. They'll try to compensate or escape that loneliness, but that there's something when we seek Jesus and we seek that time and space with the Lord that it can become solitude where it's like the sacred silence between two best friends or two loved ones.
00:43:59
Jay
Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:00
Krystal Thomas
Right. And I like just listening to you talk about the character of God and the things that he loves about us just as we are without doing anything. made me really think of like, you know, when you're hanging out with someone you don't really have to say anything, but you both are just like, you know what mean?
00:44:17
Krystal Thomas
It's just like, you get to just come into that space and just be. And I think that that's just a beautiful aspect of God's character, to share. And I hope really resonates with, with those who are listening as well too.
00:44:30
Jay
Oh yeah, I love that. Those are the best friendships too. Don't say nothing, doom scrolling, big time.
00:44:34
Krystal Thomas
so true. Right. Yeah.
00:44:37
Krystal Thomas
like, oh, so you don't want to be here? Like, you're not just going to say, okay, cool.
00:44:40
Jay
And everyone knows the vibe. It's like, no, we're definitely chilling and loving on each other, but I don't even have to to you. We're both doom scrolling, separate sides of the couch, but it's a vibe.
00:44:49
Krystal Thomas
Yeah. But we're doing it together, right?
00:44:52
Jay
Exactly.
00:44:53
Krystal Thomas
Right. And I may still DM you the videos that I'm watching as opposed to just, you know, like having conversation, but you know, it's cool.
00:44:55
Jay
Yeah.
00:45:01
Jay
Right.
00:45:02
Krystal Thomas
Oh, well, Jay, again, thank you so much for being here before we wrap up. Is there anything else that you like to share or that's on your heart? Again, you've given us so many nuggets. So it's like, I just wanted to open up the space just in case.
00:45:15
Jay
I just wanted to thank you, Crystal, for creating the space for us to connect. I think you're awesome. I love what you're doing. Big kudos to you.
00:45:22
Krystal Thomas
Aw, thanks. I'm just
00:45:23
Jay
I hope you continue to have more of these conversations. And I'm super excited to see what the future holds for you in this conversation. venture and many more to come. And then for our friends, I love you guys.
00:45:35
Jay
You can find me on social media at jhundits. That's one It's a little ratchet. I know was given to me in college. Don't judge me. But yeah, I love you guys. You always have access to me.
00:45:49
Jay
And yeah, I hope I can connect with all of you someday.
00:45:53
Krystal Thomas
Amen. All right. And so if you are the DMV and you are looking for a church, the district church is a great place to start if you want to Google, right?
00:46:02
Jay
is a great time.
00:46:04
Krystal Thomas
But again, thank you so much for joining us today for this episode. Just a reminder that to remember that you were seen, known, and loved by God. We'll talk to you next time.
00:46:15
Krystal Thomas
Bye, guys.