Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
💄 EPISODE 165: BEAUTY IS TERRIFYING 🪞
1 Plays3 seconds ago
How far will we go for beauty? How deep and dear is the costs? We dig in to a genuinely gruesome history — lead face paint, arsenic wafers, radium perms, and an electric corset that promised to cure your "hysteria." We dig into how beauty has been poisoning people for centuries, then bring it into the present with looksmaxxing, bone smashing, and the new horror of AI dysmorphia — patients bringing AI-edited selfies to plastic surgeons and asking to look like a face that was never real.
Then two films that put "beauty is terrifying" into practice:
🎬 AMERICAN MARY (2013) — A broke med student starts doing underground body-mod surgery to pay the bills, until an assault sends her somewhere much darker. Katharine Isabelle carries it, but the acting around her holds it back. Matty: 4.5 | Andrew: 4.5
🎬 THE SUBSTANCE (2024) — Demi Moore takes a black-market drug that spawns a younger, "better" version of herself, with horrifying consequences. Bold, unforgettable, unlike anything else out there. Matty: 6.5 | Andrew: 5.5
Plus: a beauty-fact-or-myth game, "The Tea on T-Zones," and a full breakdown of what we've been watching — House of the Dragon, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, The Mummy, Undertone, and more.
Want to support the show? Become a Patron on Patreon and grab merch at frigay13.com/support
#FriGay13 #horrorpodcast #queerpodcast #getslayed #horrorcommunity #AmericanMary #TheSubstance #BodyHorror #HorrorPodcastCommunity #IndieHorror
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and podcast overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Fri-Gay the 13th Horror Podcast is a proud independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit Fri-Gay13.com. Andrew, I need you to be honest with me.
00:00:11
Speaker
Always. Do I look different to you? Different how? I've been doing this new thing. Jade roller, gua sha, retinol, cold water in the morning. i cut out dairy for 11 days.
00:00:25
Speaker
Maddie. Yeah? You look exactly the same. But I spent like 300 euros. It's an antique jade roller from the 18th century. I know. 11 days without cheese, Andrew.
00:00:39
Speaker
I know. i look exactly the same. Matty, you look great. Just believe in yourself. Do you think the premium jade roller would have made a difference?
Exploring beauty standards and societal pressures
00:00:49
Speaker
Ugh, it's episode 165. Beauty is terrifying.
00:00:53
Speaker
i am the
00:00:56
Speaker
in the
00:01:00
Speaker
I'm Marjorie Greene and I approve this message to save America, stop socialism, and stop China. State of high reality, from life to death to rise!
00:01:11
Speaker
Horror in real life. Doubters, the doomsters, the gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong. Horror in the movies.
00:01:21
Speaker
Where are you gonna go? Where are you gonna run? Where are gonna hide? Nowhere.
00:01:34
Speaker
walk When do we want it? Let's go! What are you waiting for, huh? What are you waiting for? I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning. Sometimes that is better.
00:01:53
Speaker
lotions, creams, cosmetics. What we rub on our skin gets in our bodies. They become toxic. The labels are confusing linked to cancer. They say beauty is only skin deep, but are the cosmetics you're using unsafe? The hidden dangers in beauty products are revealing. Look at what we're really putting on our skin.
00:02:10
Speaker
Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back. It's Friday the 13th horror podcast. My name is Matty. And my name is still Andrew. It is We're both still the same people. We're back from a little bit of a break. um Good to be back with you folks for episode 165.
00:02:30
Speaker
It's always fun to hit those zeros and fives in the episode numbers, I feel like. um So here it is, episode 165. And we're going to be talking to you about beauty, motherfuckers. Now listen, we're already beautiful enough.
00:02:43
Speaker
Anyone will tell you that. And if they don't, they're lying to you because we're fucking sexy. You know what i mean? But listen, there's lots of... horrible and terrible things to think about when it comes to beauty even scary and terrifying things andrew and we're going to talk about speaking of you're listening to the only podcast that talks about horror in real life and horror in the movies thank you i forgot i forgot to say that because it's been a while since we so folks listen i hope you've had a great time since our last episode which is all about pride um hope you had a great pride and andrew um we are recording this on sunday the 12th of july andrew um it's a beautiful day in ireland we've had really great weather the sun is shining it's been shining for the entire week which is rare it's hot here i hope it's sunny there too but i know it's already been hot there I hope wherever people who are listening, it's sunny and beautiful because guess what, Andrew?
00:03:43
Speaker
Something celebrate today.
The exploitative nature of the beauty industry
00:03:46
Speaker
Lindsey Graham is dead. and you know what? I will i will tell you. so when I was in college,
00:03:54
Speaker
Strom Thurmond died. Do you remember Strom Thurmond? I sure do. Strom Thurmond, if people don't know him, he was a senator from South Carolina. Guess who took his seat after he died? it was Lindsey Graham. Strom Thurmond was an actual segregationist, like someone who like really believed that black people should have been slaves. like That's what he really believed. He was a piece of garbage. And when he died, when I was in college, I think it was 2003, pretty sure, maybe We had a Strom Thurmond is dead party and it was great because we were all happy that Strom Thurmond was dead. And I'll tell you what, I'm not going to lie
00:04:35
Speaker
I'm perfectly fine with Lindsey Graham being dead and yeah biology. That's how biology works. We are all going to die someday. I don't have to mourn anybody. I don't want to mourn. And I can tell you this, that piece of shit, I'm not going to mourn. What a piece of garbage.
00:04:51
Speaker
anyone who lives their entire life committed to warmongering and but belittling the people that he stood for as well as other people.
00:05:01
Speaker
I don't care if you, if that's how you want to live your life, live it, live it in negativity. And when you die, we're not going to be, we're not going to be sad about it. <unk> and And also like motherfucker, you are the gayest thing to come out of the South since fucking like, I don't know, garlic butter. And like you, that doesn't make any sense. that I just said, but it does my head, I guess. I don't know. um Anyways, he's like, what are you been doing with garlic butter? Listen, my in my relationship, we have very interesting things. um But I mean, like, look, he's he's gayer than snot. And he voted against gay people every chance he got.
00:05:38
Speaker
He made sure that he sided with the people who were going to discriminate against us and keep us down. He was against us on Don't Ask, Don't Tell. He was against us on Marriage Equality. He voted against the Respect for Marriage Act. I could go on and on and on.
00:05:55
Speaker
He is a garbage person. ah The world is better without you. So whatever sudden brief illness um killed him, that and that is literally what it was. It's been described as a sudden brief illness.
00:06:08
Speaker
um Thank you for your service to the country. That's great. Bye-bye, Lindsey Graham. Andrew, on to beauty. Um, yes, beauty is really interesting.
00:06:21
Speaker
you know, we we've talked on the podcast before about a number of ancillary things around it. You know what I mean? right we talked We talked about like body image. We've talked about like weight. We've talked about, you know, sort of fad diets and all all that kind of stuff, which are all very closely connected. What do you think makes, you know, our chat about beauty a little bit different this time?
00:06:43
Speaker
Well, I think what we can talk about this time is kind of like ah the self-harm that we inflict upon ourselves for the achievement of, you know, quote unquote perfection.
00:06:54
Speaker
um I think that there's especially a lot, and I'll talk about it a little bit later and in some of my stuff, but I think with the age of the internet and the age of influencers and the age of social media where we're at currently...
00:07:06
Speaker
it is it is it is rife with scams and just things that are not good for you. And I think that there's something really interesting that we didn't have maybe even 10, 15 years ago because we didn't have people hawking things on the internet that were not... either FDA approved or even done any research on at all yeah or any or even have the backing of any sort of science.
00:07:30
Speaker
um It's it's kind of incredible the amount of things that people get away with on the Internet and that I've fallen for. yeah So like that, you know, now and my currently in my feed, I'm getting this this magic. um mouthwash that gets all the gunk out of your out of your system and da da da and i'm like this is not real because guess what from that same company i fell for the purple toothpaste that was supposed to make oh sure yeah and i'm like i'm not doing this again and in this i'll talk about this again later but like even with ai now it's getting even worse now you can't even tell what's real and
00:08:08
Speaker
And know now that i've I've fallen for a number of, you know, quote unquote scams, it's basically just products that I've paid my $22 or whatever for yeah and just found out that they didn't work. But like now when I see things, i don't I don't fall for AI anymore. I'm actually just don't think anything is real anymore. Like
Historical and modern beauty practices
00:08:26
Speaker
I automatically go, is this AI before I even think about anything? Like...
00:08:31
Speaker
get I get served like all these like hot guys in my feed, you know, and all they're doing is like dancing in front of the screen. And i'm like, why am I seeing this? And I'm like oh, it's because you stopped on it because you were like, is this real? Well, is that is that is that on the Freige feed or or on your personal feed?
00:08:46
Speaker
On the Friday a feed. Yeah, yeah, fair. I mean, like, it's it's the same thing for me. Like, if if you go into like, you know, like if you click search on your on your Instagram and then or tap search, whatever. And like, you know, you see all like the preview kind of grid below. Yeah. the year It is. it is nothing, nothing but shirtless guys for me.
00:09:06
Speaker
Nothing. Truly. And like, you know, I'm not saying that I necessarily mind it, but like that's how the algorithm works. Right. It it knows. It knows a little bit of what you desire, which is scary. but But the thing is, is like now you can't tell which ones are real and which ones are not. 100%. And you know what? Like, look, i I think that, you know, what you've described there as your sort of take, your your sort of like default take now,
00:09:32
Speaker
Hopefully that's what kind of becomes the default take for everybody is is going, that's that's it's most likely not real. It is most likely AI. And maybe the more that we start to question that and the more we start to disengage from it then,
00:09:47
Speaker
maybe its power will start to wane. But I mean, who knows? it's it's It's probably unlikely at this point. I mean, I get it. I get served all the same things that you do. um And, you know, I think especially now that I'm in, you know, while we're we're both at both in our 40s. I think we start to get more for like, you know, men's aging stuff now too. yeah yeah So, you know, it's all about like Rogaine and it's all about, you know, hymns and about, you know, your hair and about your skincare and everything else.
00:10:17
Speaker
And like, look, some of it is good because like, you know, I do learn a couple of things here and there maybe. And, you know, like, look, I've got a, I have a Gen Z boyfriend for God's sake. Like he knows way more about skincare than I'm ever going to know. And he does very well at it.
00:10:31
Speaker
I might also so add, he knows what he's doing. So like he's giving me some tips on things. i' like, you know, look, it's good to take care of your skin. that That's, that's not a bad thing. It's good to, you know, wear the right kind of sunblock. And like, look, things are getting more intense in the world in terms of the ozone and and and the way that the sun hits us. Like, yeah, we should probably be wearing a higher s SPF now and all that kind of stuff. But there's so much of it that's just a bunch of junk out there. Yeah. It's unfortunate. unfortunate. it's not a surprise because people are just so vulnerable when it comes to this particular issue that they are willing to spend any money that they can to feel like they're beautiful.
00:11:08
Speaker
And, um, You know, that's tough, man. Like I, I, I think anymore, like in our, in our world, in our existence, like our first, our first instinct anymore with, with people that were, were like, you know, like, what are you doing? Is to be like, oh, you're an idiot. You're like, how stupid of you.
00:11:32
Speaker
But now I really feel kind of empathetic for these people, you know, like they just want to look beautiful, you know, they just want to, they want to feel beautiful and they're willing to do anything for it. I don't know. It's, I think it's really sad where we are, but maybe it really hasn't changed at all from the way it's always been. Maybe it's always been like this. I don't know. Well, I i think what it really comes down to, and you know, I think that it's changed within our lifetime is how exploitative it's become. Yeah, that's It's,
00:12:00
Speaker
you know There was always commercials for like fucking Dove and Neutrogena. What was that? Acne Proactive that we had 90s. We've always had these things, but now it's now it's everywhere and it's pushed from every angle and every...
00:12:19
Speaker
and Now that we have access to the world via our cell phones, via little computers in our hand, it's much easier to influence and much easier to exploit people with trends and with you know these kind of different body... Think about in just our lifetime. So in the 80s and 90s, it was all about heroin chic. It was like skinniest, skinniest is the best.
00:12:43
Speaker
And then in the 2000s, it became about curves and about like trying to like... be be as crazy as possible with like hair color and like all that kind of stuff, like neon and and that kind. And then it kind of got really like, then it kind of like we went through a ah time period and I distinctly remember this where it just kind of was like, everybody is beautiful. Like we went through that, like that period of time.
00:13:06
Speaker
And now we're kind of coming back to a around to like big lips, big butts, but skinny waist. It has to be skinny. Yeah. I don't know. And we're kind of like in a weird place right now because I kind of see like a push and pull between like people being like, oh, that looks like Mag of Faye. So and then like the pole is like, ah we should be as natural as possible and only use products that are good for our skin. It's it's always like a weird thing. And, i you know, I understand it's in an industry and they have to keep it fresh and they have to keep it going. But at the at the at what point is it at the don't know at the injustice of the actual customer. You know what i mean? Sure. Yeah. I mean, well, tell me why don't we tell our dear listeners, Andrew, what are some things that we do for beauty? What's what sort of products do we use? So like for you, what's like your daily routine? What do you do?
00:13:58
Speaker
um I have a niacinamine oil that I use on my face. And what is that? what does that do? um It's basically like an like a little bit of an acid, like and a diluted acid. So it just kind of gets rid of the dead things on your face. so you're burning your face off every day. Is that it, Andrew? My God. And then I have a retinol that has s SPF in it.
00:14:18
Speaker
Okay. And then I have a regular lotion that I use mostly for when I shave, just kind of, you know, get that skin. um and then i have it And then I have a tinted moisturizer because my ah skin tends to go a little red sometimes. So I just have a little bit of a tinted moisturizer. And then for my hair, um i
Personal experiences with beauty pressures
00:14:36
Speaker
just take a pill, which is ah just ah a vitamin.
00:14:39
Speaker
um And I have a special shampoo and an oil that I put in at night. That's kind of the main things. I've experimented here and there, but that's kind of the the the main sticking point of my regiment.
00:14:51
Speaker
Interesting. um I'm not too far off. i for for For my face, um which, you know, look, I'm forty i'm almost 44 years old, my friends, and i've had a I've had a party life. I'm just going to point that out right now. You know what I mean? like i have I've had a lot of alcohol go through this body And I used to smoke. So like, listen, I'm i'm doing pretty good all things considered. um I exclusively use Kiehl's products on my face. i I just do because it's the shit that I know works.
00:15:25
Speaker
And so I use um an avocado eye cream. I use that every day. I do have that as well. I forgot. um And i I like it. I think it works for me. I use the, um I forget what it's called, but they have like like the black bottles of stuff. It's like kind of like anti-aging shit. It's like, it's it's like, it's like geared for men.
00:15:43
Speaker
um I use the the serum. I use that every day. um I'll use the facial fuel on top of that, which is like the moisturizer. I've got one with SPF and one that does not have s SPF.
00:15:54
Speaker
I've also got another moisturizer from Kiehl's that has like a heavier SPF and I'll use that on the days where it's really sunny. um And beyond that, like there's some things that like that like Manuel has that like i'll every now and then I'll like try him out because he's got a ah ah he has a ton of stuff.
00:16:11
Speaker
And that's really basically it. I only... um I only wash my face like once a month, basically. And like I wash my face every day. But like that's that's what works for me. And I and i don't get blemishes. I'm like, you know, once again, like my skin, you know, all things considered for the age that I'm at looks pretty fucking good. um And I use it. I use a Kiehl's face wash for that.
00:16:36
Speaker
um For my hair, i don't use anything yet. I've been thinking about it. Um, but I'm really, cause like my hair, I'm not balding, but like people in my family have, our, our hair is very fine. And so like we, we, we thin, but we don't bald.
00:16:54
Speaker
And like that's starting to kind of like be a, and a thing in my head now that I, that I think about often. And I've thought about like, well, you know, will I do this pill or will I maybe do a cream or whatever? But like the fucking side effects from that shit, it freaks me out. And like mostly like maybe like erectile dysfunction can come from it.
00:17:15
Speaker
if if I'll send you what I use. It's not any it's not a chemical. It's ah it's a vitamin. Oh, great. Send that along to me because maybe maybe that'll help because i' just the thought of the thought of my dick ain't working, Andrew. I can't do that. I can't handle it. I'm sorry, but I can't. and like But also like other things too. like I've heard it it fucks with your blood pressure. it fucks with this thing. and I'm like...
00:17:39
Speaker
I just don't know if it's worth it. like i yeah i i'm not gonna I'm not going to put any sort of medicine in my body. But if it's but it's a but if it's a vitamin and a topical, I'm okay with that. Exactly. So, I mean, look, I think that you and i you know probably do like a normal amount of stuff. But I mean, there's people out there that spend an awful lot of money doing a lot of things for their body um you know in pursuit of beauty.
00:18:04
Speaker
And um
Cosmetic alterations and societal influences
00:18:05
Speaker
it's a huge industry, but there's also a lot of things that have happened in the past that I think are are interesting to think about too. Because it's it's not like you know in in the age of social media, we suddenly decided we wanted to get beautiful. This has been a thing with humans since the start of us.
00:18:22
Speaker
we There's a ah drive in us to want to be beautiful, to get the right partner, to get the right husband, wife, to get the right job, to get the right whatever. Like we think that beauty is the key to doing that. And so there were some things that I found from an article from The Guardian, Andrew. And if you want to look it up, folks, it's called Shock of the Old, 10 Painful and Poisonous Beauty Treatments. So I'll tell you about just a few of them.
00:18:50
Speaker
um The first one is about Dr. McKenzie's arsenical soap with arsenic in it. From 1897. Jesus Christ. In the 1850s, reports on Austrian arsenic eaters emphasized their flawless complexions, kicking off a craze for arsenic-laced beauty products. These wafers, creams, and soaps conferred a desirable tubercular effect.
00:19:17
Speaker
pallor. After all, and this is in quotes, the fairest skins belong to the people in the earliest stages of consumption. As Mrs. S.D. Powers wrote authoritatively in the 1874 beauty Bible, the ugly girl papers. That's the actual name of it. um Chapter headings, by the way, in this book included hope for homely people. That's hilarious.
00:19:44
Speaker
Brief Madness and Easier to be Magnificent Than Clean. What the fuck is this book? I have to get a copy of it. um Unfortunately, Arsenic Wellness Products Made You Pale.
00:19:57
Speaker
by destroying your red blood cells, but it's okay because this one was quote unquote guaranteed absolutely harmless. Uh, in 1899, there was a hip reducing machine to make those hips a little bit smaller. Uh, and the person with the thousand yard stare operating this device, seemingly a set of mechanized rolling pins, um, is from Philadelphia. His name was Jack O'Brien from 1905 world lightweight, heavy boxing champion.
00:20:28
Speaker
ah And the the look of this machine, you'll have to like open the article to actually see the picture of it, is absolutely ridiculous. um It looked like it was absolutely violent on a person's body, whether you were a woman or a man.
00:20:43
Speaker
Um, it apparently also in 1906, there was, um, some publishing about Edwardian ladies and their beauty regime in the UK. Um, and they would talk about repairing the seasons ravages, a perennial problem. And the author of this article said, I doubt that meant mainlining pigs in blankets in front of the world's strongest man for Edwardian society ladies, but their creative beauty treatments offer inspiration for more contemporary malaise. Why not
AI's impact on beauty standards and self-esteem
00:21:11
Speaker
take a light bath in a cupboard um saying that it might reduce the weight accumulated by incessant dining out, lie in a bath full of magnets um strengthening and life-giving or enjoy an electrical massage from a stern lady who looks disgusted with your life choices. Just insane stuff they were doing. In 1929, there was talk about lip tattooing.
00:21:36
Speaker
um And the author says here, as someone who 25 years ago replaced my non-existent eyebrows with tattoos, done by what I can only assume was the beauty parlor's work experience kid and still bears the scars. Indelible orange and psychological, I am perfectly placed to shout back through time, no, don't do it, at this reckless young thing. And they were tattooing their lips back then. like And the pictures of this are just god awful. Like making them permanently red. Exactly. And look, I've had enough tattoos that would be absolutely...
00:22:12
Speaker
terrible i don't even know how you would recover from that it would be very very hard in the 20s they were giving people perms with radium with radium andrew they were makeup remover in the 30s that also included radium and apparently there was a french brand called thow radia and their range of beauty products were supposed to improve circulation and remove wrinkles but they were ah they were also shown conferring the unearthly radiant glow that you can see in their advertisements.
00:22:44
Speaker
ah They were cunningly promoted with expertise from a doctor called Alfred Curie, though he was of no relation, of course, to Pierre and Marie Curie, of course, who apparently considered legal action against the company, ah which is insane. Like, imagine putting radium on your face, or like a literal, like radioactive material. Like, what the actual fuck? It's insane. so Crazy stuff. And Andrew, I know that you've got some more history about beauty products.
00:23:12
Speaker
Yeah, just a couple of other things that you didn't hit on. So um one of the first ones that I had was during the Renaissance in the Elizabethan times. Like you said, pale skin was really in. But there was a new another thing that they would put on their skin um to achieve the mostly ghostly complexion. Women, including Elizabeth I, used a face paint called Venetian Cirrus, a mixture of white lead and vinegar.
00:23:36
Speaker
Wow. ah At first, it created flawless porcelain skin that they wanted, but over time, the lead slowly poisoned them, causing hair loss, rotting teeth, skin ulcers, permanent and permanent scarring. Ironically, as the makeup damaged their skin, they applied even more to hide the damage, trapping themselves in a vicious cycle.
00:23:57
Speaker
ah The horror doesn't stop there. Renaissance women sometimes put drops made from belladonna, better known as deadly nightshade, directly into their eyes because it enlarged pupils were considered irresistibly beautiful. The effect worked, but at the cost of blurred vision, extreme light sensitivity, and in some cases, permanent blindness. Oh my God. Jesus. What people will do for the achievement of beauty. It's not worth it. Okay.
Empathy and social media's distortion of reality
00:24:26
Speaker
um let's talk a little bit about beauty influencers and kind of what we hit on a little bit earlier but um some of the detriment that this has caused uh one of the scariest developments in modern beauty culture is how quickly dangerous trends can spread online a single viral video can convince millions of people to try procedures that were once performed only by trained professionals In recent years, influencers popularized at-home chemical peels, microneedling, and inexpensive rollers, DIY, dermaplaning, teeth filling, and even injecting products purchased online. While many creators and include disclaimers, nobody reads a disclaimer, i'm just going to tell you that right now, ah social media often rewards dramatic before and after transformations. We've been we've seen this since the early two thousand s with like the swan and ah what was that other extreme makeover or whatever, um where that's why we watched is see how much people changed rather than safe practices. um Even dermatologists have repeatedly warned that these trends can lead to infections, permanent scarring, nerve damage, allergic reactions, and chemical burns. The frightening part is that the algorithm doesn't distinguish between qualified medical advice and someone who is filming in their bathroom. They simply amplify whatever gets the most engagement.
00:25:42
Speaker
um Some of these that include, i don't know if you remember this, Maddie, the Gorilla Glue girl incident. Oh, yeah. Yep. um After running out of hairspray, Jessica Brown used Gorilla grew Glue spray adhesive on her hair. The video went viral, and after her hair was effectively cemented in place for weeks, she eventually required a special surgical procedure to remove the adhesive.
00:26:05
Speaker
While this wasn't started by a beauty influencer, it became a cautionary tale about trying extreme beauty hacks and using products in ways that they were never intended. um Speaking of, ah there's a new thing out there. I'm sure you've heard it be because and everyone can't stop talking about it. It's looks maxing. This new trend among um young, mostly young men. This is so fucking strange. So strange.
00:26:29
Speaker
It encourages people to optimize every facial feature. Some influencers have promoted bone smashing, literally striking the face with a hammer or hard object under the false belief that it will reshape the jawline or cheekbones. Medical experts say there is no evidence it works and can cause fractures, nerve damage, and permanent injury.
00:26:50
Speaker
um I'm not going to say the ah person that I can't stand because I'm not going to utter his name because everyone fucking utters his name. And I think it's only making him more famous. so But this is a real this is a really bad trend. um And I think telling young men that if they don't look a certain way, and young women for that matter, but we've been telling young women this forever, so... I don't know what we're supposed to do about that. But to tell people that they are ugly because they maybe have a different kind of face than what, quote unquote, is the best face is so damaging to young ah young people and to their the way that they think about themselves. I know this. You know this. Because from a very young age, I was told I was husky or I was, you know. And guess what I still deal with to this day? Ooh, yum, fun eating disorders. Exactly. You have to remember what you tell people when they are very young and when they are being shaped into young people.
00:27:48
Speaker
It's going to stay with them for the rest of their lives. So be very, very careful how you criticize people.
00:27:56
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, look, it's pretty fucked up shit. um And as people with body dysmorphia and em body issues that you and I have had our our whole lives, like I think where we're, how do I want to say this? I think that we're we're probably more apt to to think about things in that way now. Like we're we're we're a bit more careful about about things. But, you know, if if I was a young person now, but I mean, like, you know, a minor, if i if I was somebody who wasn't an adult yet,
00:28:25
Speaker
i I think I would be so confused about the world and about everything around because you have so many people telling you so many different ways to be.
00:28:36
Speaker
And that just didn't exist for us in the same way. I mean, yeah, things things have always been fucked up and weird when it comes to this topic. But now it's just so much in your face and young people live their entire lives online that you and I didn't do that when when we were that age.
00:28:53
Speaker
Like it must just be terrible. It really must be terrible. Yeah. and One other thing that I wanted to hit on that we mentioned a little bit earlier is the inclusion of AI now in jesus an impossible beauty, as they call it.
00:29:07
Speaker
um One little article that I read, artificial intelligence has introduced a new kind of beauty standard and one that is not just unrealistic, but literally impossible. AI powered filters can smooth skin reshape noses and large eyes, slim faces and even lighting and bone structure in real time, creating a version of someone that doesn't actually exist. On top of that, entirely AI generated influencers and fashion models are beginning to attract millions of followers despite never having been real people.
00:29:36
Speaker
um As these flawless digital faces become more common in advertisement and social media feeds, psychologists worry about people that are increasingly comparing themselves to beauty standards that no human could ever achieve.
00:29:50
Speaker
Unlike traditional photo editing, AI can even feature, can invent features from scratch, making perfection feel both effortless and attainable when it simply isn't. And the effects are not ah are already showing up in real life. Plastic surgeons have reported people bringing in AI-edited selfies or images generated by tools like ChatGPT and asking to look exactly like them.
00:30:14
Speaker
Some doctors even even coined the term ai dysphoria to describe... um to describe sorry to describe the growing disconnection with how people look and how they believe they should look after seeing these digitally perfected images experts warn that constantly viewing ai generated beauty can fuel anxiety low self-esteem and body dissatisfaction especially amongst uh young teenagers and young adults who spend hours scrolling social media each day so kind of just what you were just hitting on yeah you know just a second ago but like this inclusion of now
00:30:48
Speaker
impossible people, like impossible beauty. how How are we going to, how are we going to deal with that? Like, how can we come back from that? I don't know. I mean, i I don't know how we come back from so many things now. It's, it's, it's a scary time that we live in. It really is. And like, you know, look, go ahead. Well, I was just going to say like, you know,
00:31:11
Speaker
You should be able to do whatever you want to do to feel beautiful. There's nothing wrong with that. And like, you know, if you if you want to wear a bunch of different makeup, fine. No problem with that. And i I really do think too, like, you know, look, if there's something that you want to transform on your body because it's going to make you a happier person and you want to do that, fine. Do it.
00:31:32
Speaker
I mean, look, I'll be honest. I did it. I had a surgery. Now, I can't believe it's it's three years ago now, but I had a surgery three years ago. I've never talked. I mentioned it before, but I mean, i'll I'll say what it is now. I had a surgery to ah remove gynecomastia.
00:31:48
Speaker
And that was a huge decision for me. And it I had lived with it my entire life. And ah like, there's a certain point where you're like, you know what, I think I finally understand now that it doesn't matter how much weight I can lose, because i I had lost weight, I had gained weight, I'd done everything in between to get rid of this. it was never going to work because it's an actual like syndrome. It's an actual like, not disease, but it's a thing that you get. And if you're unlucky enough to get it and you're a man, chances are you probably want to get that fixed in one way or another. And for some guys, it's not that big of a problem. They don't worry about it. But for other guys like me, you know, it meant that like any situation where you had to wear a t-shirt or where you want to go to the beach or where you want to go to a pool,
00:32:36
Speaker
it sent you into debilitating anxiety. like yeah you you You can't even imagine how hard it is. And so it's ah it's a really tricky thing and people go through a lot with it. I did. um It's shameful. You don't want to talk about it with anybody because why would you want to? And you know three years on, it's one of the best things I've ever done with my body. like It was something that I knew i had to do. and when I moved here, if I'm being honest, I had access to surgery that was wonderful and good and safe and and tested and also a fraction of the cost of what it would have been in America. I'll be very honest.
00:33:15
Speaker
And so I was able to do that here. And it's changed my life for the better. Changed my life
Humor and societal impact of beauty
00:33:20
Speaker
for the better, for sure. So, you know, when I think about like what people do, like that's something that I've done before. yeah But like it's different than what am I trying to say?
00:33:30
Speaker
It's different than like but what I had and what I had to get done is different from sort of like bouncing around in fads. That's not what this was. Like this is this was like an actual like disease that I had. we don't know why it happens. No one knows why it happens in men, but it just does. And so like that's, it's, it's different. You know what I mean?
00:33:54
Speaker
I think that that's much different than like, like, I don't know. Well, but what I'm trying to get at though is like at the same time, like I understand that like if you want to get a procedure done to make yourself feel more beautiful, I get it. I think it's, it's like, but you really need to weigh out the costs of what you're doing.
00:34:12
Speaker
i think I think, you know, we've we've got two good movies today that we're talking about, The Substance and American Mary, who deal with this head on. Like, how much are you willing to really sacrifice to attain that standard that you're really looking for?
00:34:26
Speaker
ah it's It's pretty crazy stuff. It really is. I think ah the way that i the way that I kind of look at any kind of plastic surgery or alteration or anything is, are you doing it for you or are you doing it for a fad or to attain what other people have? It's a great question.
00:34:44
Speaker
I think that that's something to really think about when you're thinking about making alterations. I've never had any surgery or anything, so I can't really speak to that decision tree of how you get to there. But like I do know that I've seen a lot of people really regret what they did because they did it for because kim kardashian did it or whatever you know what i mean that's not the reason to do it that is not you know like like my thing it that was that was for me that was for me so i could finally live happier and not think about this thing that had been weighing on me since i was like you know 11 years old Like, it's something so different. It wasn't because of a fad. It wasn't because I was trying to be accepted. It was because I needed to feel right in my in my vessel.
00:35:29
Speaker
And I finally do. Yeah. I think that that's that's totally different. Yeah. But you know but but i but i i you I said it earlier. i've I've got empathy for people who, you know, they do look in the mirror and they they never see what they want to see. It's tough. And it's so tough in this world where where you're just...
00:35:47
Speaker
it It seems like anymore there are people who just do this shit effortlessly. They weigh whatever they want to weigh effortlessly. They look great all the time. But it's just social media magic. It's all that it is. And I wish that we could see that more and more. I do.
00:36:03
Speaker
Now I have a question for you. Sure. Have you or do you think you ever will go down any sort of injectable filler, cosmetic surgery like for looking different?
00:36:18
Speaker
ah And i'm I'm not talking about like like a facelift or anything. I'm talking about maybe like the Botox or yeah like yeah like things like that. Have you ever considered or do you think you will? It's another thing that I've thought of. I'm not going to lie. You know, like ah because I used to smoke, I do have sort of like smokers lines around my mouth.
00:36:36
Speaker
And um I would would, I mean, look, i I would love for those to go away, you know, but we all would like we all, because at the end of the day, it's not about those lines. It's, it's, it's more about, I know I'm getting old and like, that's what that really is.
00:36:54
Speaker
And, you know, so I don't know, I've thought about it, but then I, at the same time, I tell myself like, but Maddie, you're just getting older. Like, yeah, I know in your brain, we can only find it for so long. But like, you know, like, I mean, I'm sure i'm I'm not alone in this. And maybe you feel the same way. But like, I'm 43 about to turn 44. I still feel 21 in my head.
00:37:15
Speaker
You know what i mean? I still feel like i like a 20s person in my head. I don't I don't. it's It's it's a weird thing. But I think it's a fairly common experience. And so coming to grips with the fact that like, yeah, look, I am fully in middle age now.
00:37:30
Speaker
And like, I'm and I'm only going to get older from here on. And like, you know, once you hit 44, your your aging accelerates and like you just start to look older.
00:37:40
Speaker
That is that's just the reality of it. maybe I just have to deal with that. And so, you know, I don't know, like the, the, the surgery that I had done is something so different because that was something method that needed to be changed and should have been changed a lot earlier, probably when I was a minor, to be honest, but like getting filler in my face, I don't, I don't know, you know, like, I don't think, I don't think it's the right choice for me if I'm being honest.
00:38:07
Speaker
Yeah, I go back and forth. i have like I have some anxiety around the way that my under eyes look. And that's just that's that's like a personal preference. i wish that i I wish that I just looked more awake. I wish that I just didn't look so tired.
00:38:22
Speaker
um But maybe that's on me. Maybe I just need to sleep more. i mean, like that's true too, you know? So I think that there's ways I could fix it without having to do anything cosmetically. Have I thought about it?
00:38:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i would never do anything that's permanent, I don't think. But would I maybe fool around with some Botox here and there to see if I like the way it looks? I don't know. I'm not not i'm not putting it out of the handbook, but I have not even done a consultation. So it's like in that area, I think I feel kind of the same way. Like, you know, like my my sisters get it all the time. i have friends here that get it all the time. i i don't I don't know of any male friends that do it.
00:38:58
Speaker
um, or people who identify as male, but like, um, you know, they haven't been hurt by it. I can say that, you know, they're, they're doing fine and they also seem to enjoy it. So, I mean, it's another thing where I'm like, you know, if you want that, you know, no drama, no, no, no shade on you at all. I just don't know if it's right for me. I'm not sure. Yeah.
00:39:17
Speaker
Every time that I think I want to like go get a consultation or something, something happens. like For instance, I don't know if you follow ah Hannah Berner on social media. She's the comic who a comic who used to be on Summer House on Bravo, and now her and her partner have like the top podcast in the world. They're very popular.
00:39:36
Speaker
um but she went and got Botox in her cheek and it caused her face to freeze and now she can't smile. What? Yeah, and so she has to wait for it to wear off for her to be able to. She basically has TMJ for three months, basically. Yeah, see, like that's the kind of shit where I'm like, that's just not worth it.
00:39:54
Speaker
It's just not worth it. you know like and like i i don't I don't have anyone to impress anymore. i don't really fucking care. Yeah. I don't. Only yourself. but I mean, I don't. like Look, i've I've got a boyfriend. He thinks I'm fine. And he's significantly younger than I am. So if if he's thinking that, if I've got something going on.
00:40:12
Speaker
I don't really care anymore because guess what? By the way, if you're not in your 40s yet, when you hit your forty s something really great happens. You do start to give a fuck less and less and less. Trust me. Like you just like couldn't give a fuck about a number of things.
00:40:26
Speaker
So I don't know. Like, I mean, I find that to impress anymore. I think it's funny because I do understand what you're saying there. But then I also have this other side of my brain where now I'm like, well, let's try it. What's what can I hurt now? yeah I'm already that old. Yeah, that is true. That is true. Fair enough.
00:40:43
Speaker
Like, for instance, I went blonde for the first time in my entire life. And so I'm like, ah why not? I can do it, girl. Frost those tips, baby. Andrew, anything else to say about beauty? What do you think?
00:40:56
Speaker
I all say it to people is don't chase beauty. Let yourself find beauty. i like that, Andrew. And I think that's all I have left to say about it.
00:41:07
Speaker
Well, the only thing that I'll say is this, dear listener, you're already beautiful. There you go. You're beautiful. Take that with you and to for you. Except for you, right over there in the corner. The the the ones not right the ones who didn't put up a review yet on on on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify, you're not beautiful.
00:41:26
Speaker
That blemish is sticking out like sore thumb. You've got zits and you're ugly. and And until you put up a review of us, it's not going to go away. um Listen, folks, that does it for this segment. Hold your horses. Get a drink. We'll be right back with what you've been watching.
00:41:41
Speaker
Bitch.
00:41:45
Speaker
Let's all go to the lobby, let's all go to the lobby, let's all go to the lobby to get ourselves a treat.
00:41:57
Speaker
And we're back with what you've been watching, bitch. What you've been watching, you Botox bitch. That's right. Listen, this is the segment of the show where we talk about what we've been watching besides the movies that we watch for this episode. So we each have four of them. Guess what? This time we have two that overlap, which is great. So, Andrew, why don't you give me your first one that is not an overlapper?
00:42:21
Speaker
Sure. My first one is on Hulu slash Disney Plus, whatever you subscribe to. um It is called Not Suitable for Work. Have you heard of this? Not at all. um So this is the new comedy from Mindy Kaling, um famously of The Office and then of The Mindy Project and many other shows that she's produced over time. This is ah written and directed by Mindy Kaling. um And it follows kind of not college age, but maybe just out of college, like starting your first job. And and they all live in New York City. And it's it's three guys and two girls, and they live across the hall from each other in New York City. And it's kind of just like their...
00:42:57
Speaker
becoming a friend group but also having to go to work for the first time and having to have like a regimented schedule and it's just really really funny all the actors are really hilarious um they all kind of have their own little lane and storyline but they interweave um it reminds me a lot of if the the fx show adults that came out a couple of years ago okay but maybe but maybe like the city version of that show um and And I loved it. We just watched the last episode a couple days ago. i had so much fun with it. I can't wait for it to come back for season two. It's kind of like an a refreshed, more adult, more cynical friends, if you will. Okay, sure. um Because it's very self-deprecating. it They don't take themselves too seriously.
00:43:40
Speaker
um But i really I really like it. um I think it's a great addition to the Hulu platform, and I hope they keep it coming for many more seasons. Wow. Thank you for that, Andrew.
00:43:50
Speaker
My first one, and they my my first my my two are connected, um is House of the Dragon on HBO. Now, this is ah one of the prequel spinoffs for a Game of Thrones.
00:44:06
Speaker
And look, it's in its third season now, House of the Dragon. And I was a Game of Thrones fanatic. I've talked about this before. um And I was extremely mad, like most people were, at how the show ended on HBO. was very upset about it.
00:44:23
Speaker
And um i I put off watching the House of the Dragon because of that, because I was so angry. And I don't i don't remember exactly how, but somebody around me mentioned a House of Dragons or a house of the House of the Dragon. And so I was like, you know what? I'll just give it a try.
00:44:41
Speaker
And I did, and I'm obsessed with it. It's really good. And I'm really happy about it because um i well i binged all three seasons in in the last week.
00:44:53
Speaker
and Well, the two and a half seasons, basically. And um it reminds me of how it used to feel with Game of Thrones. And I really appreciated that because the just the the the disappointment with the final episode of GOT was so, so deep um that i i I was just I was really almost hurt by it. i took away too personally. it's It's gross. But like, yeah, it it was nice to come back to that Westeros world and feel good about it again. So I've enjoyed it. I think it's really good. I'm interested to see where the show keeps going.
00:45:29
Speaker
um and the other thing too is that it's inspired me to finally read the books. I never read the Game of Thrones books before. i want to start giving that a try, I think, and read also the the book that that House the Dragon is based off of, as well as the other short story that A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is based off of. But I'll save that for my next selection because that's what I'm talking about next. So Andrew, what is your next one?
00:45:54
Speaker
Yeah, I've heard a lot of people say that acting-wise, this House of the Dragon is even better than Game of Thrones. It's really good. I mean, there's there's also there's great actors in it, and they just they know what they're doing.
00:46:06
Speaker
It's good. Well, I'm glad that you guys have that. Yeah, yeah. um All right.
Movie critiques and recommendations
00:46:11
Speaker
My next one um was described to me as the craft meets mean girls. So I was pumped.
00:46:17
Speaker
I was pumped. And that is the shutter movie forbidden fruits. It has the girl from um Riverdale in it. The one woman from you in it. So it's got like people in it that you recognize. nice and okay I was I was pretty pumped for this one because if somebody said the craft meets mean girls whoa I'm so excited um and essentially what this movie is about is about three girls that work at kind of like a Victoria's Secret type of um mall job okay and they they hire a new girl and all of a sudden they become kind of like a little coven um and they have this thing called the paradise that they celebrate after work and listen
00:46:59
Speaker
I wanted this movie to be good. i really, really did I wanted it to be fun Listen, it doesn't have one really good scene in it. Yes, there is one really good scene, but all the other scenes that are around it, it just was boring. I'm sorry. i wanted to like this so much and I just didn't. I just didn't. So I can't recommend it, but hopefully people will get enjoyment out of it. Is it even close to being anything like The Craft or Mean Girls?
00:47:25
Speaker
No, not really. so i don't know where this comes from. um But yeah, it's kind of, for me, it feels kind of a wasted premise because I do like the premise of like mall culture and like, you know, feuding with like the mall security guard and stuff like that. I think that's kind of funny, but like, I just don't think that this one pulled it off, unfortunately. So it's, it's kind of a a rotten apple for me with forbidden fruit.
00:47:49
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. My next one, as I said before, is a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. It is another prequel to Game of Thrones, and it exists between House of the Dragon and a Game of Thrones. um This one is a really fun one.
00:48:03
Speaker
um It is about a hedge knight, and his um he he he he is not a knight, but he pretends to be one. And he is a squire to a knight who was um just sort of ah a wild, crazy guy going around Westeros. And after he dies, his squire doesn't really know what to do. So he goes to this jousting festival in in Westeros and he pretends to be a knight and he goes through this whole adventure. um and it's really good it's it's really cute it is it's funny um like it's it's a it's actually a pretty funny show i think that george rr martin probably had a lot of fun writing this and it's a it's a really interesting um sort of just like little blip in the game of thrones universe um i really enjoyed it and it's it's also not quite done yet i don't know what the plans are for this show like
00:49:02
Speaker
Will there be more seasons or not? i don't I don't think there will be. I kind of hope that there that that there won't be. um But it it's good. It's another thing that I've enjoyed. So it's yet another thing that I think has um sort of brought me back into that world and it's and it's been fun to watch. So for both House of the Dragon and A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, look, if you were like me and you were really pissed off about Game of Thrones and you haven't watched these because it would just felt emotionally too hard, give it a shot. Hopefully, like me, you're going to find some enjoyment in them.
00:49:32
Speaker
Cool. All right. Our first shared one today is, um let's just start with Undertone because that's the one that came out first, I i believe. yeah um Undertone, um this is the story of ah two podcasters who are podcasting across the ocean, much like what we do right now. And they come across these tapes and they start to listen to them and it starts to influence things. That's all i'm going to say.
00:49:57
Speaker
um i don't know what to do with this movie because i didn't really understand the twist or the end.
00:50:07
Speaker
um I don't know if you share this with me. well but like And I think that because we have been podcasting for so long, some of the podcasting stuff really, really bugged me. Like when they would get on and talk for like five minutes and they're like, okay, see ya, gotta go. and I'm like, you guys just set up this across the pond meeting to talk for five minutes that's not real or they would like every episode would be like one tape and I'm like Jesus Christ but you're not going to listen to the next one and I'm like I don't know it I got two in the weeds on this one and then they tried to do with like this crazy ending and I just really didn't understand it so maybe I need to watch it again um but I just didn't get it what about you how do you feel about undertone
00:50:47
Speaker
Um, yeah yeah, so I was really excited about this. too. Because i' obviously, like, what look look at what we're doing right now. So naturally, this was like drawing people like you and me into it.
00:51:00
Speaker
um I waited for a while because the, um it it wasn't in in cinemas over here, but but like for like like a minute, basically. And ah when it went on to streaming, it was just too expensive to both rent and or buy. So when the price finally dropped, I bought it because I was like, you know what, I'm sure I'm going to like this. Why wouldn't I like it?
00:51:22
Speaker
And it was the curse of me buying things that I shouldn't buy until I've watched them because it always happens to me. that I buy it. And then I'm like, this thing is not what I wanted it to be. So um that was the case of this one. i i i wasn't a big fan of it. And I have to tell you, like, it it was... gotta wonder...
00:51:43
Speaker
i got wonder If the person that wrote this movie knew about our podcast at all, I'm just saying, Andrew, and like I messaged you and Michael about this when I first heard about it. But I was like, I'm looking at the message that I sent to you right now. And I said, set this to you on June 21st. Okay. Watching undertone finally about a horror podcast with one of them in the Midwest and one of them in the UK.
00:52:08
Speaker
Like, and I get it. Their podcast in the movie is not like ours. I understand that, but it's still horror based. And like, hello, do you see me and you and our podcast that we have? And also another thing that I want to point out, the main character, her surname, her last name in the movie is Babich. which is Croatian and sounds a little, you know, it doesn't sound like Zeridic, but like, hello,
00:52:33
Speaker
duh So I'm just saying out there, Ian Tuwason, Tuwason, whatever, however you say your name, did you know about our podcast when you wrote this movie? I'm just saying, because it seems like you did. Anyways, ah obviously, I also really wanted to watch, I really wanted to love this movie.
00:52:51
Speaker
I just didn't. I didn't. and And I got done watching it and I was like, that wasn't that great. I sort of feel like you, that I i need to watch it again, but also I just kind of don't want to, I'm being honest. And like, I mean, I'm looking at the poster for it right now and this is from age twenty four And, you know, the the watermark on it says, the scariest movie you'll ever hear.
00:53:13
Speaker
i got to be honest, it's not. It's not. Yeah, I know. So, yeah, disappointing. Disappointing. Disappointing. And like, to be fair, like, look, I own it. I'm going to make myself watch it one more time. Like, maybe I'll find something in there that I actually like. But in general, the answer is no.
00:53:32
Speaker
Cool. Well, our last shared one is recently on HBO. It's Lee Cronin's The Mummy. My goodness gracious, man. i i i had wanted to see this in the theater, but like you said, things are in the theater for like like basically like a minute then they're gone. Yeah. um And so I waited. And then when I knew it was going to be on HBO Max, because I kind of keep up on those things of like, should I rent this or is it going to be going to streaming soon? I was getting really excited. it's It's a very long movie. i think it's like two and a half hours. It's long.
00:54:04
Speaker
And so i was I was excited to sit down and like really ingest a movie. um But I think like where this movie ah doesn't really deliver is that it's not really a mummy movie. It's more of an Evil Dead movie. And if you think about i mean what the director well who the director is, the director is the one who did Evil Dead Rise. yeah And I was like, well, yeah, this is basically just Egyptian that and So I don't know. I didn't hate it.
00:54:33
Speaker
um I thought some of the scares were pretty creepy. But like overall, like this movie didn't make a whole lot of sense. Like the fact that they would even find a girl that and this is all in the preview. So I'm not spoiling. Yeah, that they would find a girl that's been missing for eight years in a sarcophagus.
00:54:51
Speaker
How would she live? i don't i know. yeah yeah You know, um i like Lee Cronin. um I met him at the premiere for Evil Dead Rise in Dublin, which was really cool. um At that screening, he also had the Necronomicon with him from the movie. That was really cool to see, too.
00:55:09
Speaker
And he's a great guy. Like he's, he's super nice. He's Irish. He lives here. um You know, in this, he, he, he, he cast an Irish actor in it. Jack Rayner is American born, but he is Irish. It's been in other Irish films.
00:55:24
Speaker
um In general, I like Lee Cronin's movies. um And I did like this one, but I mean, it, I think that you're absolutely right. This is, i i think it is a mummy movie. I do think that. But this is absolutely an evil dead mummy movie, completely. And i thought it was a really unique take on on mummies and like what can be a mummy, how a mummy is made, like what a mummy can be. That that was pretty, you know, pretty different in in terms of like the mummy subgenre. um And it's also like, you know, you you use this term often with with with movies. Like, it's a fucking mean movie. Like, yeah Jesus fucking Christ. Like, the shit that happens in this is terrible. um And, you know, for for the most part, i I think it works. But, like, there there are some things where you're like, man, come on.
00:56:18
Speaker
And, you know, like there are definitely parts of it that you need to stretch your, stretch your imagination to believe it. And you also have to, you know, kind of not yell at the screen so much with like, why are you doing this? Don't do that. Just get out of there. number of things. A lot of choices were made. Let's say that. Yeah. the scream at this movie. But, you know, I think with Lee Cronin, he's such a master of just gore and like flesh and body horror that like even somebody like me who's not super into that, I really respect it. Like he does it so well that the movie becomes more of a phantasmagoria of that as opposed to like I have to believe every nuance here. So, I mean, look, do I want to watch it again? going to be honest. No, I don't.
00:57:09
Speaker
But like, did I and did I enjoy watching it? I did. yeah I mean, i definitely yelled at the screen, though, like I just said there. And, you know, yeah, there were parts of it that didn't make a whole lot of sense. But in general, I had fun with it.
00:57:20
Speaker
Yeah, I'm kind of in the same area as you. I had fun until I wasn't having fun. Yeah. then ah' but it's Go ahead. No, it was like one of those things where it would get I would get so negative on it and then it would win me back. And then I would get negative on it and it would win me back. So I'm like, i don't know were kind of where I stand on it. and but i think I think one of the problems that is, is that it's just too long. I mean, like it's 132 minutes long.
00:57:44
Speaker
It does not need to be that long. This movie could have could truly have been a clean 90 minutes and it would have been way better. Get to the point. You don't need to have so much drawn out core. It's so drawn out sometimes. like You got to speed it up. And like I think that's one of the problems with it.
00:58:05
Speaker
Yeah. A little too tortury for me. if you yeah Right. Exactly. It is. But I mean, yeah, I will say though, like the torture part of it, like when you find out like how all the things are being done and all that kind of shit, Ooh, that is fucking dark as fuck. It is dark.
00:58:22
Speaker
My goodness gracious. Jesus. All right. Well, that will do it for what you've been watching, bitch. Maddie brought us House of the Dragon and A Knight of Seven Kingdoms, um currently on HBO. And we both brought The Mummy and Undertow, which are also on HBO. And Andrew brought us Not Suitable for Work on Hulu and Forbidden Fruits on AMC Plus or on Shudder.
00:58:44
Speaker
So, folks, that does it for what you've been watching, bitch. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with our first film
Exploring 'American Mary' and body modification themes
00:58:49
Speaker
of the episode, American Mary.
00:58:55
Speaker
I've been late on a payment. $364 should be enough. What's the lease that I could put on?
00:59:05
Speaker
$364. I quit med school today. That shouldn't come as a surprise to you. What's this? It's my resume. You don't need it to work here, but it is nice to find out some of your dirty secrets.
00:59:17
Speaker
Want to be a doctor? Surgeon. me Do I have to do? Yeah, we preferred Rat was not to die tonight.
00:59:28
Speaker
You can put the bed down, Dr. Mason. I'm just a desperate woman looking for help. What exactly does she want me to do?
00:59:53
Speaker
Thank you.
01:00:16
Speaker
I'm changing specialties, Dr. Grant. Have you ever heard of body modification?
01:00:30
Speaker
Do you think I'm crazy?
01:00:43
Speaker
Bloody Mary. Bloody Mary. Bloody Mary, Bloody Mary. And no, I won't say it for a fifth time because I'm still as terrified of it. But this is all about American Mary. Maddie, tell us all about American Mary.
01:01:01
Speaker
Appearances are everything. A destitute medical student begins taking clients from the extreme body modification community to solve her financial troubles until a traumatic assault sends her down a far darker surgical path.
01:01:17
Speaker
Directed by Jen Soska and Sylvia Soska, written by the same, and produced and distributed by Anchor Bay Entertainment, Industry Works Pictures, American Mary Productions, Evolution Pictures, and Twisted Twins Productions. I think they just took whatever characters they had and made them into a production company. ah The cast was Mary Mason played by Catherine Isabel. Billy Barker played by Antonio Cupo. Beatrice Johnson played by Tristan Risk.
01:01:46
Speaker
Dr. Alan Grant ah played by David Lovgren. Ruby Real Girl played by Paula Lindberg. Dr. Walsh played by Clay St. Thomas. Detective Dohler played by John Emmett Tracy. Lance by Chuan Holiday. And the twins by Jen Soska and Sylvia Soska. The film is rated r It's 103 minutes made in Canada in Vancouver. They filmed it ah released on 31st of May 2013. And we don't know anything about the budget for this movie, unfortunately.
01:02:19
Speaker
OK, so, Andrew, I think this is a first time watch for both of us, I think, but maybe not. um Tell me about your your viewing of it this time. um This is my first time watching it all the way through. um and Famously, this is a movie that me and Michael tried to watch on vacation when we were with you and Casey and all those guys when we all went on vacation together. And every time we went to go watch it, we'd fall asleep. So I've only seen this in like parts. um And so this is my first time watching it all the way through. um but
01:02:53
Speaker
Overall, I thought this was a pretty solid movie. I mean, for what they were trying to accomplish, I definitely did gasp a couple of times um in the movie. We'll talk about what made me gasp a little bit here. But um overall, I think this is solid a solid picture. I think that there is some pretty bad acting that is pretty distracting. um I will say that. um But like...
01:03:16
Speaker
I think with like a movie with, you know, no budget and went went straight to streaming, I think this is kind of an okay ah yeah departure. i don't know how else to put it, but like, you know, for instance, I think Catherine Isabel is really good. I think her delivery is impeccable. But when you try to cast your own directors as characters and then also make them German, it's just very distracting.
01:03:39
Speaker
um And, you know, i don't even blame people like Beatrice because she's kind of supposed to be a caricature of a person in this movie. So that makes sense to me. But then we have people like um the bar owner who is just like not a good actor. I don't know. but like um So I kind of go back and forth on this one.
01:03:58
Speaker
i think that the overall story is actually pretty good. i think it is kind of cool the way that she kind of falls down this this hole of self-deprecation and how she just and ends up in a really bad place and it eventually, yeah you know, a spoiler alert, gets her killed. But we'll talk about the ending and how I think the ending is not very good and really, really... ah in unthoughtful when it comes to how the movie is played out. Yeah. But I want to hear your thoughts on the overall movie before we get into details.
01:04:26
Speaker
I mean, I think they're, they're virtually the same if I'm being honest, sorry for the lack of drama, uh, dear listeners, but it's, um, it's true. Like, I think it's a really, I think it's a really good idea for, for a story. i really do.
01:04:39
Speaker
Um, and I think that, um, it could have been a lot better if there was just some better acting in this. I, and I, And I agree with you in that it's just uneven. Like there are some that are great and there are some that are not. And, you know, look, I don't know much about Jen and Sylvia Soska.
01:04:57
Speaker
um They are twin sisters, obviously, and they they've they've done more movies than just this one. um But, you know, it's not like they're, you know, big time Hollywood names. So I'm sure that their budget wasn't huge for this. And we don't know anything about the budget, right? So, I mean, you can only hire who who you can hire. i get it um And I think it works for the most part. i do. i agree with you. The ending is is not good. um But, you know, the stuff that this film explores, I think, is really, think it's really interesting. Yeah. And, you know, the, um, the assault scene, the, the, the, the sexual assault scene, the rape scene is what it really is. Um, that's, that's pretty tough to watch. not good
01:05:39
Speaker
And, um, I think that the revenge that comes in this movie is really good and solid. And, you know, I, I like, I sort of like that it sends her down that path. I think it's really interesting.
01:05:51
Speaker
Um, so, you know, in general, I mean, it it was better than I thought it was going to be, which I always really appreciate with films that we watch on this podcast. I think for 2013 too, it was, it was, uh, you know, it doesn't seem like that long ago, but it really was 13 years ago Like it's pretty risque for 2013, to be honest, too.
01:06:10
Speaker
um So, yeah, you know, look, I had a better time watching it than I thought that I would. um i think it i think it does say some and some some you know important things in here. um i just wish it would have been with some better actors, to be honest.
01:06:24
Speaker
Yeah. some ah So some of the things that... um where I thought that worked. I think that ah the way that they kind of opened this movie, like kind of the Hannibal-esque, I only thought of the show Hannibal when they were doing like all the turkey stuff and the suturing and that kind of stuff. I did think it was funny though when she goes to her professor and she's like, oh, I've been practicing on the turkeys, da-da-da-da. And he's like, well, how do they taste? And she was like, well, these weren't eating turkeys. And I was like, wait, what? Yeah.
01:06:51
Speaker
ah yeah um I think the way that she kind of so falls into her profession is pretty interesting because she's really she's really there. And this you know only people of a certain age are going to remember responding to Craigslist ads. You know what I mean? Like trying to find a job or an apartment through Craigslist. like Or a lover.
01:07:10
Speaker
yeah Or that that was real, though. It was. Did you know, though, I actually did find a missed connection on Craigslist once. Oh, yeah. I wrote so many of those things. Oh my God.
01:07:23
Speaker
I had, we, I had, I'd been coming back from a concert and there was a guy on my train who we kept just sharing glances. And I was like, well, this is obviously something. And I had to get off the train and nothing happened. So I kind of wrote on Craigslist, like the guy who was reading the Dean Kuntz novel and saw the girl throw up on the train. And and that guy got back to me. And he was reading the Dean Kuntz novel.
01:07:47
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my God, that's crazy. That's wild. But, but you know and you know, people of a certain age are not going to remember how that worked. And so when she goes on when she goes on their version of Craigslist and kind of looks for a job or whatever, I thought that was like, wow, what a throwback to like you know just trying to find things. Speaking of of that of that in particular, Miss Connections, those same people are going to be too young to remember them being in the back of the Chicago Reader every week too.
01:08:15
Speaker
Those were always fun when you were drunk. They were. And then she know she kind of stumbles into this profession because she goes for what's going to be a sensual massage. No sex. Promise. Yeah, right. but um And she goes in and is performing the the the ah interview by you know giving the guy a massage. um And you know it just so happens that I guess they're...
01:08:39
Speaker
I guess they're just like torturing someone maybe for money or something. i couldn't quite understand. um But he has and and tell me if you were a little confused on what his injury was to what was he he didn't have an eye.
01:08:53
Speaker
Right. But was he also sliced down the middle? i couldn't tell. i I really don't know. i was almost like, wait, what is going on now all of a sudden? Like it was was kind of it was a little confusing. like Some of that stuff could have been a lot clearer. Like, okay, he's he's a club owner. he's like like what But like what else is going on here? that it it was it was a little It was a little jarring.
01:09:16
Speaker
Well, and that's that's another thing that um I want to challenge this movie on is it was very uneven when it came to like... what she was supposed to be like her defining characteristics because up until that point we've saw her as kind of like a a very competent very smart very ahead of her time surgery student sure and then when she's presented with the opportunity she does it but then what does she do she goes home and cries and in the shower and in the blood and i was like but up until this point you've told us that she like likes this like Shouldn't she be like and invigorated that she got got to do it for real? yeah But instead, they kind of give her this very uneven personality of like almost wishy-washy on like does she want to do this or doesn't she? Because then the next turn is her like setting up an established business where she does body modifications, and she has no problem with that. So I think... maybe playing around with some of the writing early in the movie to establish the character a bit better, it may have made the rest of the movie resonate a little more, if that makes any sense. Yeah, it does. Yeah. um
01:10:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, you know, it's it's, well, tell me what you thought about the ending. So I think the ending, so basically the end of the movie is, um this is how I interpreted it.
01:10:36
Speaker
the end The end of the movie is the girl that she operated on in early in the movie to basically make her a human doll. So remove her sexual desire areas like her nipples. And i guess this she and and she said, sew it up as much as you can, which I mean i i guess is so yeah I can still go to the bathroom, I guess is like the best yeah the way you leave it. um But essentially she's like a human Barbie.
01:11:04
Speaker
And that's that's what she wants to achieve. That's like her goal is that her husband, I guess is what they say, didn't know that she had this done, i guess. And when it finally is revealed to him, he goes on and kind of a a rage.
01:11:19
Speaker
And it's it's not clear if he kills that girl because the only girl that they show later is Beatrice, who's also been beat up pretty bad. And then he comes to Mary's house to kill her, I guess. Yeah.
01:11:32
Speaker
And it's like I said, there's some things in the movie that are just very unclear is she gets the upper hand somehow and kills him. I couldn't quite put it together, but he had stabbed her in the stomach at one point and she tries to sew herself up back up, but she dies anyway. Yeah. And I'm just like, where did this come from? Because this was not like, it just felt really rushed and unthoughtful for how we've followed this character for the last 90 minutes and And to for her to just die so suddenly.
01:12:00
Speaker
And then. Yeah. and And it's and interesting. It's interesting that that you're saying rushed, too, because, I mean, the film, it's not short. you know, it's 103 minutes. It's, you know, it's it's not two hours. I get that. But it's substantial. You know, it's it's over 90 minutes. I didn't think over 90 minutes. you you You better be fighting for it.
01:12:17
Speaker
So um I don't know. I don't know. Um, I do think some of the writing is pretty funny. I think there's some good ones in here. Like when she goes to operate on that first woman and, um, Beatrice is there with her daughter, I guess. Um, she says like, Oh, she's at the age where she's not high all the time, she's a real bitch. And I was like, it's really, it's pretty funny. going to stop snowing if you're not a good girl. yeah Um, I, I, I think that some of the worst acting was coming from that professor too Yeah. Like,
01:12:48
Speaker
It just didn't, it it it always felt so weird. It was a very weird dynamic. It was, it was weird in general. i didn't know he's an asshole, but like that, that just didn't ring correctly at all for me. It really didn't.
01:13:01
Speaker
Well, and it's funny. I even have my notes. I'm like, this guy is not hot enough to be acting this way. because yeah so That was my note. um But after her assault by him, terrible i I did not think he was still alive. So when they showed him still alive, hanging in that warehouse or whatever, I audibly gasped at his appearance because that was shocking.
01:13:26
Speaker
For fucking real, dude. Seriously. mike Because up until that point, we know that she did something to him because she tells you know she tells him i'm going to do my little experiment on you. And then you end up seeing like this kind of like lookbook for her for her ah for her shop.
01:13:41
Speaker
And you know it's him, but you never really get a good glimpse at like what is in there. You kind of just hear what's in there. And so when you finally get the reveal of him hanging in that warehouse, I was shook.
01:13:53
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I agree. That was those that was scary. I mean, i mean hook hooks in general are just sort of um ah discombobulating. We should not be on hooks. you know hike it looks it looks It looks pretty horrific.
01:14:07
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that, you know, this movie does have some of those really bad, gross-out scenes, like that guy who has the infected penis. like Oh, God. Yikes on bikes. Jesus God Almighty. it's ah yeah And, like, look, it's it's pretty intense body modification shit. Like, that is, ooh, man, that's...
01:14:25
Speaker
rough absolutely rough let's let's talk about like the most extreme one and it's the you know the sisters and that they want to be together forever so they want to trade left arms and i'm and the way that she is so nonchalant about being like oh yeah i can do that i was like jesus christ like that's insane it's absolutely fucking insane Now, did you kind of get the other half of that surgery? Because they they give her a picture of like a demon, I guess.
01:14:54
Speaker
And I couldn't really understand what she was doing. I mean, I understand that she gave one of them horns. But there was another insert that she did around the eyebrow that I didn't quite understand. And they never show their final...
01:15:07
Speaker
ah their final appearance. I wonder why they, why, it like, why not show the final appearance? I don't know. Cause I guess maybe it would be too hard to achieve without actually doing those surgeries because I know, I know famously when they, you know, there's a part in the movie where they kind of have a montage of like all these different people with like different body modifications and everything. I know that all those people were hired for their body modification. Like those were real. Yeah.
01:15:32
Speaker
Yeah. So maybe it was just too hard to achieve that without... possible. I don't know. But I did find it interesting that they never showed their like final form, if you will. Yeah. But i I honestly think they're the weakest, and I hate to say it because they directed it, but they're the weakest of the ones that come in because they're supposed to be like this... like I don't know, like German underground gothy girls. And listen, I think that if they just, of berlin I don't know why they just didn't play themselves because they kind of already have that persona in their real life. i I don't know if you're very familiar with the Soska sisters, but um I did watch their short lived show, Hellivator. don't know. okay. That was a, ah that was a game show where people would try to compete through to get through like scary, ah like mazes essentially. That's funny. um
01:16:21
Speaker
um i think it's on I think it's on Amazon or Shudder if people want to watch it. It's kind of an entertaining show. It's kind of stupid, but it's kind of entertaining. They have done a but plenty of other things. Their first film was called Dead Hooker in a Trunk from 2009. ABCs of Death They directed a segment in there. See No Evil 2. They made two films for WWE Studios, which is hilarious. See No Evil 2 and Vendetta. Interestingly, in Vendetta, it stars Dean Cain.
01:16:52
Speaker
Congratulations on that. ah Rabid, ah they co-wrote and directed in 2019. It's a remake of David k Cronenberg's film. On the Edge, in September 2022, the Sosk has announced the premiere of their new film, On the Edge.
01:17:07
Speaker
um I don't know much about that one. And then a Festival of the Living Dead. It's a sequel to Night of night of the Living Dead, directed by the Saska sisters in 2023, released on Tubi in April of 2024. So that's out there, too.
01:17:21
Speaker
um And as you said, Hallevator, but then also apparently Kyle XY, they were in that. And I know in an episode called I've Had the Time of My Life. Kyle XY, I'll never forget that poster being around and being like, oh, he's so hot. um But yeah, so there's that. um but A couple of other things too about the movie. The role of Mary was written specifically for Catherine Isabel.
01:17:43
Speaker
ah All visual effects are practical. There were no post-production VFX. And many of Mary's patients were portrayed, as you said earlier, Andrew, by members of the real ah body modification community. ah The Soska's parents, they remortgaged their house to help finance the film. And they both appear in minor roles. I wonder who they played.
01:18:05
Speaker
ah Yeah, I'm not sure. i have i have to I have to look that up. But then the end credits here also said for Eli Roth. I did not say for the end credits, but that's in there too. I know that they all run in like the same circle, if that makes any sense. so i' Kind of like that um funded ourselves horror crowd. you know And I think that Eli Roth ah has really taken a lot of people under his wing because he just he had the most financial success. So he can help you know further help people down the line. Which, you know say what you want about Eli Roth. But I will say that he...
01:18:39
Speaker
is a staunch horror fan and helps other people make horror too which so i can i can appreciate him from a certain angle do i think he's still kind of a you know exploitative you know kind of gross person yeah a little bit but you know you you can pick and choose why how you want what man is in these days you know jesus um andrew anything else about the film american mary I can't think of anything, you know, i think that this is one of those ones where i think we both kind of agree on our score, but it's just one of those ones that like, you just kind of got to experience it for yourself yeah to really understand how to, I don't know. Cause it was, it's such a weird movie. It's got like such a weird as weird tone to it. i agree. um
01:19:22
Speaker
So go watch it. I'm here at Friday, the 13th horror podcast. We grade on a seven stripe scales for the seven stripes of the gay old rainbow. So that would be a 3.5 would be an average.
01:19:32
Speaker
Um, Matty, what do you give American Mary? I gave it a four and a half and I said that it's amazing how some B-level acting just can't be anything more than B-level acting, which is a shame because the story really does have legs. Didn't mind watching it, but I don't really need to see it again.
01:19:49
Speaker
I also gave it a 4.5 and I said, this is a pretty enjoyable quirky film with some moments of true turn your stomach carnage. However, the uneven acting and the underdeveloped ending, i can't go much higher with my score.
01:20:01
Speaker
i think that's fair. So folks, that does it for American Mary. Stay tuned. We'll be back with our second film of the episode, The Substance.
01:20:17
Speaker
People always ask for something new. It's inevitable.
01:20:23
Speaker
At 50, well, it stops.
01:20:32
Speaker
Have you ever dreamt of a better version of yourself?
01:20:38
Speaker
Younger, more beautiful, more perfect.
01:20:49
Speaker
One single injection unlocks your DNA and will release another version of yourself.
01:21:05
Speaker
This is...
Discussion on 'The Substance' and character duality
01:21:10
Speaker
The Substance.
01:21:15
Speaker
I'm
01:21:22
Speaker
You're hired. Let's go.
01:21:29
Speaker
perfect balance of seven days each. The one and only thing not to forget. You are one. You can't escape from yourself.
01:21:43
Speaker
There's been a slight misuse of the substance.
01:22:02
Speaker
Would you like to stop? I'm fine. Everything's fine. You have to cut! i'm fine everything's fine
01:22:36
Speaker
Remember, you are one. And you are going to hear us talk about the substance. Andrew, tell us all about the substance.
01:22:46
Speaker
You, but better in every way. A fading Hollywood celebrity uses a black market drug that temporarily creates a much younger version of herself with unexpected and horrifying side effects. Directed by Coralie Farragut and written by the same person, production and distribution were handled by working title, blacksmith, and famously, Mubi. Maybe.
01:23:12
Speaker
ah The cast is Elizabeth Sparkle, played by Demi Moore. Sue, played by Margaret Qualley. Harvey, played by Dennis Quaid. Fred, played by Edward Hamilton Clark. Oliver, played by Gore Abrams. And Troy, played by Oscar Lesage. This is a rated R, obviously, and that's a hard R on this one, I will say. it comes in at 141 minutes. It was made in Los Angeles, California, and France, and was released on and September 20th of 2024. The budget for this one was $18 million, and it raked in a cool $82 million. So where is the substance, too? Some people might be asking. But, Maddie, tell me all about your experience, because I know we both have seen this before. with the substance this time around. Yeah, and I love this movie. um i I first saw it ah in the cinema um and I walked out of there. I think i I probably texted you, Michael, right away saying, oh my God, it's fucking brilliant or whatever I said. And still agree with that. um I watching it again. I've watched it a couple times since sensing it in the cinema when it came out in 2024.
01:24:20
Speaker
And it retains that level of ah shock and that level of a story that really winds its way into you.
01:24:31
Speaker
And there's There's so much going for it in this movie. um demi First of all, just just just the the actors that that that we have. Demi Moore, Margaret Qualley, and Dennis Quaid, all really great actors.
01:24:45
Speaker
And Demi Moore plays probably the best role she's ever played in her career. It's something so bold and so different for her. um i think it took a lot of bravery for her to play this role because it is so much on her body.
01:25:03
Speaker
um i think the same thing for Margaret Qualley. Margaret Qualley is um an actress that I i really admire. First came across her in The Leftovers on HBO, which is a show that I was absolutely head over heels in love and obsessed with.
01:25:19
Speaker
um And she was wonderful in that show as a teenager. And so to see her now a bit older playing roles like this is incredible. um Dennis Quaid is a nightmare of a man in this movie. And he plays it perfectly.
01:25:36
Speaker
Plays it absolutely perfectly. And then everything else around these actors is just perfect. positioned in the right way to really show us an auteur at work and making a movie where the style ah the style the sound the picture the acting everything comes together in a near perfect realization and i think it's wonderful And I think that the ending of this movie is fucking insane from from the the the like studio recording scene all the way to the very, very end of the movie.
01:26:16
Speaker
um and And I think, you know, look, what it's saying is. really important. And it's also really terrifying because it's exactly where we are in the world right now. When we think about everything that you and I just talked about with, with regards to beauty, how far are you willing to go for it until you finally have to realize that it's you, this is you, it's your body. You'll never really be able to escape it you will never be able to escape your body until you die. So like you have to come to grips with the the vessel that you have is the right one and it's, and it's the good one.
01:26:51
Speaker
Um, but what happens when you, you know, when you deliberately put yourself into, um, a situation like this, it's, it's, it's pretty fucking terrifying.
01:27:02
Speaker
So yeah, I, it's, it's hard for me to say anything bad about it. I'll be honest. Um, that's how I feel. How'd you feel? Yeah, so ah like I said, this my second time seeing it. um The first time, obviously, in the theater and then you know for the this recording.
01:27:17
Speaker
um I'm going to sound like I don't like this movie because I have a lot of questions. um But I do. I do enjoy this movie quite a bit, especially, like you said, for the performances of our of our two main leads.
01:27:30
Speaker
um I think that that the assignment that they are given, they pull it off effortlessly and they make it look easy. And so I think that's... ah It's an achievement for both the actresses and the director. um I think that the style of the movie is really baked in nicely. I think that they never deviate from what they're trying to do with like the ah the score and with everything. I think that it's just...
01:27:54
Speaker
it's It's tip top when it comes to production is what I'm trying to say. um And everything is stylized in such a way to where you almost forget that you're watching a movie about Hollywood, which I think that you kind of have to because there's some things in this and I will talk about as we get in further in, but like that just don't make a lot of sense. But you have to just kind of like let yourself be in this world and not think about this world as the real, real world, if that makes any sense. Yeah. Yeah, sure. um Because there are things like topless women on a topless women on um on TV, oh sure on like network TV. that That's not going to happen. I don't really know what the network this is. um But it's just things like that where I get a little bit in the weeds. and I have some questions about some of a specific scenes that I'm hoping that maybe you can either shed some light on or... give me your opinion on that we can talk about. So overall, I think that's ah a really great movie. I think it has some um flaws in its storytelling that we can, that I think that are a little bit strange, but it does not, it does not stop me from enjoying what they put together here.
01:28:59
Speaker
So yeah that's kind of my initial thoughts. Yeah. I, I, I don't think anything that you've said there is, is not out of left field for sure. um i mean, I think that like,
01:29:14
Speaker
Coralie Fargat or Fargate however you say her last name, she she's created it a ah an ah like ah ah an alternative reality of Hollywood that is that is very close to the real one, um but ah but does have some of those nuances that are different. Like you know like you're saying in there, it's Hopeless Women on network television for a New Year's Eve thing. and That's never going to happen. But in this little world, it does. And when that that's that's that's pretty crazy.
01:29:43
Speaker
But um thinking about how how it all happens for Elizabeth Sparkle in this. And I would say that like this time around, I definitely felt a lot sadder watching the movie.
01:29:58
Speaker
And like, especially like, you know, at at the obvious parts, like when she looks at the little like, um ah what are those things called snow globe that that has, you know, that little figure in it and all the little sparkles come down on it.
01:30:10
Speaker
um It was really sad. was really, really sad. And like, you know, you've you've got a woman who like, you know, as far as we know about about her She's, you know, she's not like some kind of like evil person, you know, like she just she's been doing a show for a long time. She was really famous for a while and she hit 50 and suddenly, you know, no one wanted to look at her or be around her anymore.
01:30:35
Speaker
And, you know, we don't get any other backstory on her, really. We just, we have that there. And so you're left with a woman who's just sort of left alone. And, you know, she's turned 50 and she's alone.
01:30:47
Speaker
And, you know, she's worried about everything around her. And, you know, she she meets the one guy that she used to go to high school with. you know, who, look, I'm sure he's a nice guy, but like, you know, he's not like exactly the most attractive guy in the world. You know, she's single, she doesn't have kids. She's probably thinking to herself, like, what the fuck am I supposed to do now? and bet that is what she's thinking.
01:31:06
Speaker
And so when she gets into that crazy car accident, which is absolutely wild, And she goes to the fucking doctor and then this beautiful, you know, perfect looking, you know, young male nurse gives her, you know, a thing that she didn't even know what it was. It's, it's just, it's pretty crazy and it's also pretty sad. It really is. I think that the end of the movie is, is horrific in its sadness.
01:31:31
Speaker
um Watching you know all these different parts of you know all the the the the evolution of the monster and how it goes and then watching that blob dissolve into the Elizabeth Sparkle star was kind of crazy stuff. like that is that That's wild filmmaking.
01:31:48
Speaker
So, i you know, I don't know. i had ah i had such a good time with this movie, even as sad and as insane as it was. um You know, and I i watched it with Manuel, who had not seen this.
01:32:01
Speaker
And he he had not seen it yet. And, I mean, he loved it. And, he you know, he's super into beauty products and all the rest of this stuff. He ah he he can't stop thinking about it. And I think it's it's one of those films that really does stick with you. You keep thinking about this. So, I don't know.
01:32:18
Speaker
So here is my quest, like my overall biggest question about like this, this, the substance, if you will, what's the benefit? Because I thought like in my thinking, this first, the first time watching this, not, not, and I understand it better in the second, the second watch, but like,
01:32:38
Speaker
There's no benefit because you don't get to live in that younger body. It's just another you who has its own thoughts and and memories and everything. You don't get to live in that body. So why?
01:32:49
Speaker
i don't understand the benefit. do Do you want to do you don't get what I'm saying? Well, I mean, I i i do and I don't. i mean, i I think like I mean well i should say i understand your question. I get that.
01:33:00
Speaker
i think it's I think it's less about benefit and I think it's more about escape. And I think that escape is the benefit. And so you know if you're Elizabeth Sparkle and you're sitting in this you know this weird apartment, because it is kind of weird, um and you're by yourself all the time, you don't have any any work, you don't have anything else coming your way, and you're just sort of sitting there depressed, the last thing you want to do is just sit in that body.
01:33:29
Speaker
And so the idea that you could escape your body to live in a perfect one, to live one she doesn't get to live in that body. She still has to live in her body. But but but she does because they are one.
01:33:40
Speaker
And and that that is exactly it, is that there is that escape there. So I think that, like, yeah the the the idea that that that that she could be something else, I don't know. I i think it it works. but And I also think that, like...
01:33:58
Speaker
even if it doesn't work, how can I say this? it It becomes an addiction for them. You know, even when things start to go wrong, like even when the finger happens, she still can't say no to it.
01:34:11
Speaker
So like whether or not she's getting the benefit or not is replaced by an an addictive ah quality of what the substance does to you. I think that we see this movie differently. I really do. That's possible. Yeah. Because I i see it as they are one, but they have different, they have different they're living different lives. They're living different. they don't She doesn't get to live in that body. She's not escaping her body. She's just letting another her out into the world.
01:34:39
Speaker
and Because there was no way she would ah take back all that time if she knew what was happening to the other person, if she had to go live in that other body again. so i do I do think that, yes, they are one. Like what happens to one happens to the other. But I think that they are they have the same motivations and the same thought because they are one. But one is in a different body that has ah more benefit.
01:35:04
Speaker
And so that's why she takes advantage of more time. Yeah, sure. Yeah. while the other one suffers. And so I don't really see like, i guess I just, it's hard for me to wrap my head around like, why would you keep going?
01:35:16
Speaker
If, I don't know, it's it's kind of a strange dual thing. And admit that the you know that's what the movie's supposed to do. It's supposed to make you think, it's supposed to challenge you. But i just was like, girl, once you get that dead finger, why you gotta keep going? like No, I i do. i mean, like I wonder if, like like I mean, there wouldn't have been a movie. I understand that. But, you know, if if we rethink some of the circumstances and we've been like, if, um if, if Margaret Qualley hadn't gotten the, or if Sue, if Sue hadn't gotten the, um the role on, on TV, replacing Elizabeth Sparkle, I wonder if Elizabeth would have kept going with it, you know, or or if or if it would have been just sort of like a short-lived thing or maybe something she dabbles with now and then, but would it had have gotten as bad as it did get if she hadn't, you know, found this, know,
01:36:11
Speaker
found this way to get revenge in a way right she gets she gets revenge on dennis quaid because dennis quaid doesn't know what's going on um and she and she gets revenge on on like the you know sort of like the quote unquote world whatever by like saying hey actually i'm kind of scamming you all like here i am kind of kind of thing i don't know you know if she hadn't had that motivation you know would she have kept going i don't know i'm not sure Yeah, I also think it's interesting because um at ah at surface level, I said to myself, why in the hell would she go back to work for that asshole again? But then you have to remember, no, she doesn't have Demi Moore's memories per se. She has the her same motivation. So when she naturally goes for what Demi Moore had. So she goes back to that same mentality.
01:37:01
Speaker
circle of ah hatred and of loving and hatred and loving and hatred and loving. And, it's, so I thought that that was an interesting thing this time around because the first time I watched this movie, I was like, why in the hell would she go back to him when she could have anything she wanted? But you have to remember this, the, the, the quote unquote, like clone, I guess, if you want to say, has the same thoughts and the same motivations as what Elizabeth sparkle did. So of course she would go back to doing the same thing again. You know what i mean?
01:37:29
Speaker
I mean, you know, look, i I hadn't thought about it from the angle that that that you bring today. You know, i i really hadn't. it hadn't really crossed my mind. but it But it makes sense. And it makes sense why, you know, you and I i presume other people, would would be thinking like, well, what is the real benefit there if you're not the one actually being able to do it?
01:37:46
Speaker
Right. I get it. But for me, I still think it's probably about the escape. And and even if that escape is that like, you know, to to me more fucking lies unconscious there for however long she gets to be Sue or Sue gets to, you know, be, be awake. um Maybe that's part of the benefit too. Maybe she, maybe she grows attached to that as well.
01:38:09
Speaker
You know, we all, but we all want to leave our bodies or and we all, well, not all of us, but I think a lot of us want to be able to escape our bodies. And, you know, you can't.
01:38:19
Speaker
You just can't. And here's my other question um that I'm maybe hoping you have. You probably don't have an answer, but I'm going to ask it anyway. But there are two scenes in this movie where... we are startled awake either in Sue's body or in Elizabeth's body. There is the scene where she first takes advantage of the time and she's making out with that guy and, yeah you know, and the blood starts to happen and, you know, she takes advantage of it for the first time and she comes back out and there's like ah a little bit more of a sex scene, but then he undoes her, ah her zipper and all these guts come out and and then it just, and then it just cuts to like um Elizabeth waking up.
01:38:58
Speaker
And then there's another scene where she's in the on the TV show and she's dancing around and all of a sudden yeah yeah this like gets this cyst or whatever that pops out. And then she excuses herself to the restroom and pulls a full chicken a like leg. Which fucking insane. Out of her belly button. And then that ah immediately goes to um Sue wi you know gasping awake. So are we supposed to take these as kind of dreams or...
01:39:26
Speaker
did because obviously that didn't happen because that guy would have ran screaming out of the building and never you know tried to see her again um and they would have also seen that pop out on the um playback screens which they never do and so I'm just wondering how you interpreted those two specific scenes It's a good question. I mean, for for me, it's it's it it has to be just sort of like symbolic, metaphorical kind of stuff, because once again, that's that's not the stuff that actually happened. um And honestly, Andrew, i don't know.
01:39:59
Speaker
i don't i don't have the answer. I really don't. um i i mean i it i i if it's a dream i don't know who's dreaming it right and and if it's um if it's sort of like a like even like a daydream like a waking dream kind of thing i don't really understand it either i mean are are these dreams that that demi more is having i don't know i'm not sure yeah i don't know it's ah it's ah it's a great question Yeah, those are just the two standout scenes that I had trouble um coming up with a good understanding of what was really happening. So I thought I'd bring it up. I will say my favorite scene of the entire movie is when Demi Moore is cooking out of that French cookbook. Oh my God. And she's watching the interview with sue on the TV where it's obviously like a late night host doing an interview. And she's just kind of mocking her and making fun of her. And she eventually goes up to the screen and she goes... you don't know what you're made of. You don't know how you got there. It's this. And she opens up her rope. And I don't know that it was, it was it within that scene is where I really knew that Demi Moore ah had, had committed to just fucking going for it. And I applaud her for that. So that's, I wanted to call out that scene specifically, because I think it's ah a tour de force when it comes to, um you know, giving yourself up to a character.
01:41:20
Speaker
A few more things about the movie, by the way. ah ah Harvey was originally cast with Ray Liotta, but when Ray Liotta died, they recast it with Dennis Quaid.
01:41:32
Speaker
i can see that. uhhuh It won Best Screenplay at Cannes, nominated for The Palme d'Or, but it lost to Anora. ah It's movie's highest grossing film of film of all time, as you might imagine. Universal originally signed on as a distributor through working title films, but they stepped away. Then Mubi came in and acquired it for $12.5 million ahead of the Cannes debut. And Moore's performance earned her a Golden Globe.
01:41:58
Speaker
a Critics Choice Award and a Screen Actors Guild Award. Plus, of course, nominations for BAFTA and for the Academy Award. In my opinion, she should have gotten the Oscar that year.
01:42:08
Speaker
I really believe it. because I think that that was i think that that that that girl had many more times to be able to get an Academy Award. And this is probably the only chance that Demi Moore had left. And so i I think that they should have given it to her. a I completely agree. And honestly, I think, I think that she earned it. I mean, look, I saw Anora. Anora is fine, whatever. But like that she fucking worked her ass off in this. And once again, just like, i like truly how brave Demi Moore to do this. Like that is some fucking role to take on. It really is. Like she had to put her entire self out there naked and all to to make it, to make it happen. And I think that's just, it I think it's really admirable. I really do.
01:42:52
Speaker
And it's funny, this being a universal picture because there are, you know, kind of ah a workaround, universal picture is because they do play homage to Frankenstein at the end when they're when they're in the when she's on stage and they're like, monster, shoot the monster. And I was like, well, that's definitely like Frankenstein right there. So that's interesting that it started at Universal. I wonder if that had anything to do with that specific call out.
01:43:16
Speaker
God, that monster scene. Jesus Christ, my God. I did laugh out to allow out a loud this time when she tries to put on the earrings. i thought that was pretty funny. hilarious. My God. But I mean, but like even just the start of it all, the start of the whole evolution, that finger. Oh, my God.
01:43:31
Speaker
It's so awful. she's ah It's the stuck knee for me. That's the one that got me. yeah My God, man. Jesus. Well, Andrew, tell me, what did you rate... The Substance.
01:43:43
Speaker
I gave The Substance five and a half. I said top-notch acting and over-the-top style. I just have a hard time understanding the motivations of some of our characters. Gotcha. Makes sense. For me, I gave it a six and a half. This is one that I really love. It left me shook after the first viewing, and that feeling still continues. There is no other film like it, and the boldness displayed in every aspect of the film hopefully hits the message home with audiences.
01:44:06
Speaker
So, folks, that does it for our second film of the episode, but stay tuned. We'll be right back to close out the show. Skincare trends filling your kids' feed.
01:44:16
Speaker
Time for us to borrow a hole. Little girls spending hundreds on complex beauty routines that could be dangerous. Everybody is trying to keep up with the Kardashians. My friends, that was episode 165 of Frague the 13th Horror Podcast. Before we let you go, as ever, Andrew has a game for us ready to go. So Andrew, this game is called the tea on T on T-Zones. Andrew, tell us all about it.
01:44:43
Speaker
So I'm going to read you a beauty tip or kind of ah a beauty thing that's out there in the universe. They're very common things and you have to decide whether they are true or myths. Okay, sounds good.
01:44:56
Speaker
All right. The first one is shaving makes your hair grow back thicker. This is a myth. Yes, it actually is a myth. It says hair may feel coarser because the shaved end is blunt, but shaving doesn't change the thickness, color, or growth rate of your hair. I wish it did, girl. I'd shave my head right now. All right. Number two, you should wear a sunscreen even if you're indoors all day.
01:45:21
Speaker
yeah I mean, you're not going to leave the house at all? Yeah, maybe you work from home. Then then i would say myth. It's actually a fact. UVA rays can pass through windows and indoor lighting can contribute to skin aging over long periods. Daily sunscreen is recommended by dermatologists. Jesus. Okay.
01:45:42
Speaker
All right. The next one toothpaste is a good treatment for pimples. I think it's a fact. It's a myth. Really? Yeah. While it may dry out a pimple, it can also irritate or even burn your skin. And there are much safer and acne treatments available.
01:45:58
Speaker
God, I really thought, I feel like it's worked for me before. All right. The next one, stress can actually make your hair fall out. um and That is true.
01:46:11
Speaker
That is true. It's called it's a condition called telogen effluivium. It can cause noticeable hair shedding several months after significant physical or emotional stress.
01:46:21
Speaker
um Think of, ah you know, um the mom in Poltergeist when her hair turns that gray streak. Yeah, right right, right, right, right. All right, the next one. Sleeping on a silk pillowcase may reduce hair breakage.
01:46:38
Speaker
ah Uh, God, I don't know. um Silk pillowcase. I mean, I'll go ahead and say that it is true. Why not? That is that is true. um sure creates less friction than cotton, which can help reduce tangles, frizz, and hair breakage for some people.
01:46:57
Speaker
So go out there and get yourself some silk sheets, ladies and gentlemen. Okay. All right. I got a couple more. Drinking more water will get rid of wrinkles. I'm going to say myth.
01:47:09
Speaker
That is not a myth. Staying hydrated is healthy, but drinking extra water won't erase wrinkles or dramatically improve your skin's appearance. All right, two more. Pores open in hot water and close in cold water.
01:47:25
Speaker
um I think it's true. That is a false. Is it really? Yeah. Pores don't have muscles. Heat and cold can affect how your skin looks temporarily, but pores don't actually open and close. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha.
01:47:39
Speaker
And then finally, collagen creams can replace the collagen you've lost. ah
01:47:48
Speaker
Myth? and As a myth, collagen molecules are generally too large to penetrate deeply into the skin. They may moisturize the surface, but they won't rebuild your body's collagen. Fair. Okay.
01:47:59
Speaker
So that is the T on T-Zones. Hopefully you learned few things. Well, i did Thank you very much. um And a couple of those things I really did think were true. so it's actually good to know that they're a myth. Okay.
01:48:10
Speaker
um Well, folks, listen, thanks for being with us for episode 165. And... and Yeah, thank you. Hope you're having a great summer, dudes. Listen, if you want to support us, you absolutely can. We are a proud independent podcast, as you well know. So if you want to support us, the easiest way to do that is to go to our website, frygay13.com slash support, where you can leave a review of what where you can find links to leave leave reviews and you can also become a patron on there. And that's a really good thing to do because dudes listen.
01:48:41
Speaker
um It's not hard to become a patron with us. Unlike other podcasts where you have to pay for like everything, um you don't have to pay for anything with us. And if you noticed during this episode, you didn't hear any ads, did you? Yeah, right. So if you want to become a patron, it's really easy. And we actually suggest becoming a patron at our lowest level. We suggest this to everybody.
01:49:05
Speaker
And it's just a dollar a month. So for 12 bucks a year, you can support this podcast and literally just help us break even. That's all. We're not making any money on this. Andrew, drew anything else to say about that? What do you think?
01:49:19
Speaker
I just think that if you listen to the last two hours and you had fun, maybe consider my patronizing. That's all I can say. can't make you do it, but I would love it if you could. Yeah. And listen, we know that not everyone can do that right now, which totally fine. So if you have not left a review yet, now's the time. Go to Apple Podcasts or go to Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. But those two are the big ones. and leave review and uh you can also only leave a review if it's five stars just want point that out and only if you have good things to say so if you don't have anything good to say we actually don't want you to leave a review okay just letting you know that yeah i i do want to say thank you lindsey 1989 for your review unfortunately you left four stars and not five so i need you to go and uh you know fix that retroactively please thank much thank you very much And listen, folks, I hope you're having a great summer. And I hope that you had fun with this one. But more than anything, until the next time we meet, what Andrew and hope is that all of you go out there and get slayed.