Transcript
Speaker: Good evening, Mega Is your property value going down? Well, there's space for you in the shard realm.
Speaker: Lots of open property and the value is going up. um Welcome to the Brockton Bay Book Club. it technical No technical difficulties here. um Tonight, we'll be going over 19, the back half.
Speaker: um lots of fun interludes. I'm trying to remember, is that what point 10.9 to the end? ah Point D to point point ten Point D. Yeah. Point D to point Z. Nice. yeah um Yeah.
Speaker: ah As always, thank you to our lovely patrons for helping us to continue. And if you'd like to continue to support us, you too could become a patron and so ah participate in ah you know asking for things and hopping on the Discord. Or you could always get a cool shirt like Jacob is wearing.
Speaker: That's true. Honestly, ah the goal really is just to run into somebody in the wild wearing one of our Brockton Bay Book Club t-shirts. Or our Brockton Bay sweatshirts.
Speaker: Brockton Bay sweatshirts. Can't forget. Maybe one day we'll actually show it to like the worm get-together that happens at Dragon Con or something.
Speaker: That would be amazing. That would be amazing. get kicked out immediately. Oh my gosh. They're like, oh, it's Brockton Bay...
Speaker: get out Get out. We get there and there's a sign that's like, just in case they show up, these guys aren't allowed. yeah That would be very appropriate. Consider that a win as well, honestly. Yeah, that would be.
Speaker: Guys, we're not famous. well enough We're infamous. Oh, no. I don't want to be that. ah No press is bad press.
Speaker: Anyway, um yeah, tonight as we go over Arc 19 Part 2, let's just go ahead and jump into initial thoughts right away. Nick, what did you think?
Speaker: Yeah, 19D to 19Z, I'm just going to say it again, interludes are high notes in all of these sections. Like every...
Speaker: Every interlude here has been absolutely fabulous. um I think I really liked Gruz in particular, not only because we didn't actually, i was thinking back to Worm and we didn't get much of his perspective in Worm, actually, as far as I recall.
Speaker: um Did he even have an interlude in Worm? Somebody in chat can tell me if he did. he did get ah interlude He has a very specific comment about Taylor crossing the street that gave us an insight into how she... That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. um But beyond that... Yeah, that's right. that's right um But yeah, beyond that... um
Speaker: I don't know. The rest of it was kind of a lot of talky-talky and kind of a little not as interesting. But the end again, interludes were great. Parts of the rest of it were great, like the flashbacks were great. um Yeah, I don't know, overall, I guess maybe a bit mid, besides the interludes, were high points.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, I'm in a similar boat. Feels very, ah you know, deep breath before the plunge into the...
Speaker: ah you know, epic finale of of the last arc, whatever that's going to entail. The aneliers are great. I got a lot of thoughts that we'll get into chapter by chapter for sure. um Yeah, we'll just, we'll save it for the chapter breakdown. Some things I like, some things i don't like. So it seems to be the running vague theme of these arcs, but that's why we're here. So good time.
Speaker: and I out loud yeah on more than one occasion across multiple days just yelled out as I'm working in my office, just yelled out, what the fuck is happening? What are we doing? Because i don't know what we're doing. And I don't I don't know what the plan is. It feels like they deliberately left us out of the plan. And I hate it. at The interludes are great.
Speaker: I love to see Gru. I knew he was in the cabin the whole time. no one can tell me otherwise. ah i just. Yeah. Yeah, i i I don't know, man. There are times I. Oh, boy. Just OK.
Speaker: I would really like to not feel stupid all the time.
Speaker: Listen, I know i have probably the worst case of warmnesia in the group. I understand this. I know this. I accept this. That's okay. I have the memory of goldfish. That's okay.
Speaker: i I don't like feeling this ever-looming sense of, like, either I missed something that feels big that i that should be, like, this dawning magic realization of, like...
Speaker: my God, it's all coming together. Like, or it's either I've missed that or they've deliberately dragged this out to the point where you're supposed to have no fucking clue what's going on.
Speaker: And that does not make me feel good. So either way, I'm i'm kind of, ah yeah, mid, right. I loved the interludes.
Speaker: The rest, I just, i'm I'm tired. I'm tired. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Like, this is another one of those, if there is a magical, you know, reveal of something that we're supposed to understand or get, it is mired in just too much ah nothing.
Speaker: So, while there are a lot of conversations that I enjoyed amidst all that, a lot of interactions that were fun in there, most of them took place during the interludes, and um it does feel unlike...
Speaker: worm where the running around and the panic of the end of the world feels like trying a bunch of different things. um This feels like running around to different rooms and not necessarily doing something.
Speaker: um So... ah Yeah. It it was very mid, you know? I wasn't upset with it. i also... Did not really care for it all that much.
Speaker: Yeah. With that out of the way, ah shall we begin? us jump right in. Do we want to put moon songs together or do we want to separate them?
Speaker: Oh, yes, there's a bingo. Can't forget about the bingo. why What about the bingo? It was his name. That that it exists. thats so Did you not do a bingo, Alan? I have the bingo. I mentioned, that did I not mention the bingo at the beginning? Nope. Play along with the bingo with us.
Speaker: Bingo. Didn't mention the bingo. know nobody got a bingo yet. Let's
Speaker: do it. let's do it yeah I think put i might just put Moon Songz together. Why not? Might as well. Yeah. feeling like A few of these chapters. Also, in retrospect, I would have loved for us to have done a weekly where we rate that arc on a tier list.
Speaker: Like we should have done that week to week. Oh, we so should have. Okay, but that's fair, though. to remember previous. I was going to say that's the issues. I'm going to be like.
Speaker: and No, no, you would just have them there and you would be like, I feel like this is a you know, a B tier. And then I would just quickly read off like, here's what happened in that one. If we're feeling it.
Speaker: Yeah. All right. Yeah. Alas. Yeah. Wrap up party. Yeah. yeah Hindsight is 2040. right. 19 and 19
Speaker: right nineteen d and nineteen e ah Interlude Moonsong. Moonsong helps her family, talks to her teammates, learns about Byron and Vista, argues with Tristan, and decides to get some help from Capricorn in beating the Nemean Titan.
Speaker: In 19E, Moonsong, Capricorn, and the crew battle Titan Scotty. Tristan overestimates Byron, Tribute dies as a result, and Tristan sacrifices himself.
Speaker: yeah In terms of group making me like and appreciate a character that to this point I did not like, this interlude did work, I feel like.
Speaker: like it just In terms of making Moonsong a relatable character, thoughtful character, you realize like she's realized she's been messed up, she's done things wrong, she wants to be better.
Speaker: Kind of seeing the the foil, ha so to speak, and the reflection of um in the reflection of ah tra Scribe, ah not Tristan, but Scribe, of like, oh, she was like, is that the way that Tristan viewed me?
Speaker: Is the way that like I see Scribe in her, you know, beliefs she's trying to overcome. yeah I thought that was great. Her dad is a great character. um Like one of the few good parents in the series, it seems. And even he isn't that good. It's just that he's having a a come to Jesus moment, so to speak, we're like ah where he's like, hey, I haven't always been the best dad to you. And I'm probably the reason why you are the way you are. And I'm sorry. And if we get through this, I want to be a better like that. I don't know. It's just a great, a great moment, you know?
Speaker: Yeah. um Yeah. Obviously there's Scribe um that is a flo a foil, but I definitely feel that Tristan is also there with ah with like...
Speaker: the same, she's seeing the same thing in a lot of the people here. Um, yeah. We're like, she knows she's messed up and she's trying to take steps to fix that. And she has this plan too. And at the same time, Tristan, who has also messed up is also trying to give, you know, this apology, you know, in steps and,
Speaker: very much all of these people, you know, Victor clearly was the one that, you know, got, got by the Titan for a bunch of reasons, but very clearly like all of these people could have been, could have been that Titan for very, you know, one reason or another, a lot of which being some form of like isolation, um, whether self-imposed or, you know, felt or, ah you know,
Speaker: actually happened or you know whatever um because of mistakes they made that they either did not own up to or kind of did or um or were currently working through uh or just didn't um so yeah i i really liked these two and even even scribe seems like she's trying to be better you know um you know, with, uh, with like being coming with for Kate, right.
Speaker: And there's like being willing to stand alongside her. Yeah. Even if they're not friends, they're both like, you know, checking on moon song and don't know. There's, there's something to that, I think.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a much slower process, but you know, you would like to think given a good support group, which I don't really have,
Speaker: um and maybe some extra stretching out on their part, like, they could get there. Yeah. yeah Yeah. I feel like the characters that I have more grace for in terms of, like, they're shitty and then they're working on it is, like, how willing are you to admit that you were shitty and recognize that and work on it? Because, like, there's a difference between someone who, you know...
Speaker: you know, maybe like, like with rain being in a cult, like he actively doesn't want to be that and doesn't want to be anywhere near that. And, you know, is actively working on himself to like do the reprogramming versus somebody who is like, well, everyone knows I was in a cult and I don't want to be in prison. So I guess I'm going to just like say that it's bad. Like it, it really comes. Oh yeah. Yeah. Scribe feels a lot less genuine for sure.
Speaker: Yeah, I think it's the humility aspect of it, of, like, recognizing that, like, yeah, no, that was that was bad, and I was wrong, and I'm willing to admit that I was wrong and change actively, and the difference between that and being, like, well, I'm not like that anymore, so everyone needs to move on. It's like, like well, you have to still do the work. Like, i' anybody who wants to...
Speaker: work on themselves, that's to do the work. You can't just say that you're different and therefore you are. like And so I appreciate Moonsong, like even her in her own head where she's like actively stopping the thoughts as they're coming in about being so judgmental against other people and being like, no,
Speaker: No, I'm not going to let that happen. I'm going to change the way I'm thinking. Because that's a ah huge part of like when you're trying to reprogram your brain is stopping the thoughts when they come in and you know being like, okay, enough.
Speaker: We're not going to think that way. And reformatting your thoughts to go in a different direction. And it takes work. And you see it in Moonsong's head, which I i really like. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, and maybe if we had an internal look at Scribe's mindset, it would make more sense. Because all we have we've had a bit of it, but all it was was more like, I want to show by my actions that I've changed and not...
Speaker: with my words. And I remember us saying like, yeah, but sometimes you kind of need to say it out loud. how did You gotta do both. You gotta disavow a few things if you've avowed a few things previously. Saying stuff is an action.
Speaker: It is. Absolutely. And there's like a huge power in in speaking something out because it's one thing to be like, I don't know, to stumble through an apology to somebody, but to be able to look somebody in the eye and go like, I'm sorry, i was wrong.
Speaker: Takes a lot of guts to say that to someone you trust, much less someone you don't trust. And to, you know, put yourself onto that path and be willing to humble yourself is a huge, huge step of of of that process. So, but yeah, anyways, I think Scribe just gets under my skin a little bit and I'm like, oh yeah that's the way i am I'm not as forgiving of her.
Speaker: but No, no, no. Not at all. Not at all. Not yet. And probably not ever because we won't see much of her, I'm sure. We don't have much time left. We got one arc left, man.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. She's fine. ah yeah I don't need to like her. It's fine. She'll live. She'll maybe live. Yeah. um Speaking of, Fran said, RIP another gay character. Tumblr's hatred for Wild Bo will continue. Oh, my God. We appreciate you need it tracking that. and Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is is Tribute also... i feel like there was a mention of Tribute also being gay, but maybe that's just my... Is he? No, I don't remember think so. so.
Speaker: Other than, like, the the bits and bobs we get here. Like, I don't...
Speaker: um Am I supposed to remember who Tribute is? have we I mean, as we've run into him before. We've run into him before. it His real name is Dave, so he's definitely not gay. um so No, that name. I don't know. dave Dave can either be a straight, white, 40-year-old man a very gay person. no he's black, first of all. Isn't he introduced as the big black guy who like shows up and helps her parents move? Yeah, know I'm just saying. you know Dave go either way.
Speaker: Fair, fair. We don't we don't have any any notice on that. um No, I just, i for some reason, I felt like that got mentioned, but i don't i don't know why. No, yeah I remember what it was. It was because Scribe showed up with Furcate and and trip Tribute, and Moonsong thought in her head, okay, Scribe is showing up with a black guy and a trans girl, and like this is a big step for her. like She seems yeah comfortable with them, you know?
Speaker: yeah next Fran said no, he's black. That's a different thing. That's a different thing. Got it. That was exactly my thoughts. i'm so I'm glad he said that. That was so... ah That's funny. um Thank you, Fran. Yeah, yeah. no um We've met Tribute before. He was in Wyrm, I think, right? Was Tribute Wyrm? No, no. I believe Tribute is just a reach.
Speaker: No, I'm thinking of... um Who's the one who could negate powers who, like, had the shield up when they were fighting Behemoth and Worm? Pariah?
Speaker: No, I don't know. Maybe I'm thinking of something. Negate powers? Is it in a power negating thing? Or... he like, helped made the safe If he's dead, I can... If he's dead, I can look him up, right? Yeah. yeah What is his power again? Because I think...
Speaker: tribute So Tribute's power was that ah he could basically grant aspects of himself to other people. Yes, yes, yes. yeah you would like right you need a little extra focus, a little extra strength, a little extra, like, rest. Yes, because he gives Moonsong a bunch of that. Like the opposite of Scapegoat, almost, where, like, Scapegoat takes on your negative things. Yeah. Tribute would, like, give away his positive things. Or Victor, who would steal your talents and Or Victor, would steal your talents, right? Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Reach. um Yeah. there's there's There's really nothing on on his wiki. So, yeah. Okay.
Speaker: Just double checking because, God, it feels like every time I'm like, I mean, I know these names. Yeah. yeah Like, am I supposed to know these names or like, I just know these names. Yeah.
Speaker: That's the eternal war struggle. That's why we have chat and each other. Exactly. um Yeah, so yeah that that fight with Scotty leading to Tristan trying a risky move with Byron.
Speaker: Yeah. and Yeah, because that's how Tribute died. He's like, if I can switch quickly between Byron and back to me, it'll make some mist and then it'll swap back to me.
Speaker: Byron, slow on the upkeep, though, due to, you know, being head-mumped. Yeah, he says that that Byron can't hear right now. Like, he's not there. Yeah, he can't hear when Tristan's in in control.
Speaker: Yeah, so for him, he's just, I mean, I i imagine floating in inky blackness, like, don not ah of a aware. and then all of a sudden, boop, pops into existence, and people are screaming at him, and he's being, he's surrounded by a million things, and people are like, change back, change back! And he's like, what?
Speaker: and he's like, looking around, exactly and it, like, oh, that that that one, that sucked. That sucked. yeah Because there's, like, there's there's so much...
Speaker: Like on the battlefield, like you don't have, you don't have. oh yeah. but I mean, and and he had he had second one seconds to realize what was happening in Switch. Of course, yeah. It wasn't enough time. It wasn't on him at all. and And that, like, honestly, I'm kind of surprised that Tristan thought that that would work. Like, obviously, he's used to fighting with Byron, that them utilizing their powers together. Like, makes them stronger, makes them better. And he's used to that. But, like, like you know that Byron is is down and out, man. Like, why did you think that was going to work? yeah
Speaker: I think mean it was a bad call. Yeah. I mean, I think it was a. From the way I read it, I read it as.
Speaker: Tribute was going to die any either way. and this was his one shot at making it so he didn't. And so it's like like, this was the one shot to save Tribute, basically.
Speaker: Because like yeah visually in my head, I'm imagining Tristan's constellations are going off and like spikes are flying towards Tribute. So if he can swap to Byron, turn it into mist for just a second because he doesn't want the mist to actually touch Tribute, and then back to Byron, it'll kind of dissipate it.
Speaker: but um Or back to Tristan and from Byron. But ah instead it freezes Tribute's arm off and blows it up. So that was rough. oh Rough way to go.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah
Speaker: And then. yeah i was and then And then. tri Tristan starts to crack on the cracks. Crack on the cracks. Does some crack. Starts to crack.
Speaker: I mean, we knew it was coming. Like, I wasn't surprised at all.
Speaker: Unfortunately, I wasn't surprised. Yeah, we knew we knew Tristan was cracking. We knew he wasn't doing well. Yeah, go ahead, Jacob. I had this complaint with Kenzie month or two ago, and I'll i'll probably have it again in a couple of chapters.
Speaker: But I don't know if this is intentional or not, but it just feels like After so many words in chapters, we're not getting satisfying character development out of our main squad.
Speaker: Like, Tristan is introduced to us as being, like, hiring a hitman and wanting out. And he gets that. and Like, there's... there's zero development from his character. Assuming, of course, that he's actually dead. We'll give it an arc. I don't really know what's going to happen But assuming that. Yeah, I don't... who Who knows? We got an arc to go. But even then, with with just an arc to go, we have zero character. Like, his character development was in his interlude.
Speaker: Like, the flashback of how we got to the present day. And then that's been, like, it. So it's just like, when that happened, I was like, I wasn't surprised... But I was pretty bummed.
Speaker: And Kenzie's been in the same boat too. It's just like, okay, so that's how we're that's how we're that's how we're checking him off. That's how we're leaving him after 19 arcs. Again, caveat being that we don't get any more of him. We'll see what happens. but yeah yeah It's very unsettling.
Speaker: And it it's once again, we go back to the problem of two months have passed. Yeah. Yeah. right like They're talking about Swan Song's death last night or a week ago or whatever they said.
Speaker: Right. like yeah A week ago. Yeah. yeah like All of this has happened in two months. Ridiculous. but The thing, though, always is that like you even if not a lot of time has passed, like as an individual human being, I go through...
Speaker: an immense wide range of personal growth and failure and emotional rollercoaster by the week. So like, for me, I'm like...
Speaker: Like, we could also, this is fantasy land, we can do what the fuck we want. Like, i I think the thing for me is that, like, Tristan has been such an interesting character. Him and Byron's dynamics have been so interesting. And, like, as in terms of, you know, the brothers, I like i will just like Tristan better. i liked his character, the choices that he made,
Speaker: Regarding Byron and then the choices that he's made to prove himself, stepping up to try and become a ah better leader. And the ah it just, it feels like that it he went out with such a, like,
Speaker: i I feel like I'm... And Jacob and I have talked about this on the podcast before of like characters dying. Like I'm a big fan of kill everyone.
Speaker: Jacob doesn't like character deaths. I love character deaths. But i don't I don't like it when they don't have an impact. And I don't feel like this had an impact. Like i i would like to compare this to ah ah ah specifically Regent's death in Wyrm. Like when Regent dies...
Speaker: Like, I was under my desk sobbing, yeah even though I knew it was coming. Because it was, it's so emotional. You can feel it. It feels very cinematic. It feels very important. It feels, and in this moment, it I think it's the writing. And i I'm so upset that I'm saying that. I feel like it's just written badly. Like, it's just, and I can't, I mean.
Speaker: I feel really bad saying that, but I feel like it wasn't a satisfying death. Like if you're going to die I want to feel tragic. I want it to feel sacrificial. I want it to feel, i want to feel angry at the pointlessness of the loss of life. You know, like I want to feel something. And at this, I was just kind of like, okay, okay.
Speaker: You would have thought that I would have been crying on the floor. I wasn't. i was i was unsurprised and unmoved. I was disappointed more than anything else. I don't feel that when a character that I really like bites it in in the end, the final, second to final arc of the book. Like,
Speaker: ah It was so... Which a shame, because this is the time I finally cared about Tristan, was like, oh my gosh, like, yeah, I can see, you know, you're trying to apologize, dealing with Moonsong, I guess, there's a lot there's a lot going on there, um and you're very stressed out for good reasons, and then all of a sudden, you know, he messes up, and you're like, damn, like, I'm really feeling for the guy, this is the the the most I've cared about Tristan,
Speaker: And it's unfortunate because it was immediately followed by his, you know, apparent death. And I'm just like,
Speaker: um there's there's a um there's like There's a... There's like one of the one of the fundamental rules of... I think technically it's for screenwriting, but i you could apply it to any story, really.
Speaker: um But it's basically like, you ask yourself, as a writer, you ask yourself the question, why are we following this character right now? Like, what is it about the moment that makes this character important for the story?
Speaker: um And like... I don't think Kristen has a good answer for that as a character. Like, I don't know why we're following them other than they're just part of the world and the world's full of, you know, interesting and unique characters. But in terms of like, again, we got to make the comparison to war when we do, because it's right there. um But like the undersiders felt great. And One of the jarring like shifts in Worm that I think we gloss over the criticalness of it because the rest of it is just so good, but like
Speaker: I think we talked a little bit about when they when when Taylor gets to the ah Chicago Awards. They're great, but it's like, we we miss the Undersiders. like those Those are the guys who were we you know we cared about.
Speaker: And like the yeah the Chicago Awards were kind of in that same bubble. it was like, buy these guys why these guys? these guys it's just it's a week There's a weak answer there. and this And this feels the same way. It just feels like, over the course of the story, i can't justify...
Speaker: Tristan's and Byron's involvement at this point. We'll see.
Speaker: need someone to explain to me what happened. Because yeah I don't know. That's a good question. and Before we move on, we should re-train. How did Tristan die?
Speaker: and um and die yeah a couple of Yeah, a couple of comments there that that apply to this. Fran said, i think the idea with Tristan is that he went from being selfish in relation to his brother to him sacrificing himself as a way to let his brother get out of their situation.
Speaker: J-Man also commented, and then Fran also commented again, seems like Tristan was the only thing pushing Byron to be a hero again. J-Man also commented, I actually like this more than Regent, but I didn't care about Regent's death at all, which is interesting. and Yeah, that is a a man there I there. That's okay. That's all right. care right regent I love a moody emo boy, that's why I love Regent.
Speaker: my yeah My understanding of what happened to Tristan, and and I think there's kind of two ways to look at it maybe. Um, number one is that Tristan realized he was going to go Titan.
Speaker: And I believe he may be, was he the one who said before we go Titan, we should kill ourselves to like prevent that. So my, my thinking is he killed himself somehow.
Speaker: My issue with it is that. How does he then switch to Byron? Or is it such a case that when one of them actually, because if we don't know what would happen unless they actually die,
Speaker: um is when one of them dies, does the other one just appear? And like that's that?
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So so my question. So Fran said he dropped ah a big fucking thing on himself before he became a Titan and then switched to Byron. But then my question is, would not Byron also then be under a big fucking thing? Yeah. yeah The way it's written, it sounds like something something fell and crushed, but it it specifically says like and in Tristan's body was thrown. wrong how it side Yeah. It's Yeah. kind of yeah Yeah, thrown to the side and then switch, force switch to Byron somehow.
Speaker: Yeah. It feels, it's, and this is, this is something I've really had a problem with, with ah Ward specifically. Wild Go in general writes like this, and for the most part of Wyrm, I can get past it and it's fine. But with Ward, for some reason, it's so much worse because of how Victoria usually is, is the main storyteller. But it feels so much more like intellectual, and I'm putting quotes on it because it feels like it's,
Speaker: The writing is trying to be very like smart and like, we're going to like, like but when someone says the phrase like show, don't tell. But then it's like, no, I actually do need you to tell me because I don't know what just happened. Like, I don't know what you just showed me. And it makes no sense. And I would really like you to tell me what happened. And I.
Speaker: Okay, B4R only just said Tristan was hit by his building, so it turned to mist when he became Byron. Okay. But there's no... But he didn't know... like so implying that... He didn't know that he would switch to Byron when he died? didn't know. So he potentially killed... Not knowing. kill who Potentially would have killed himself and Byron. Not knowing. Thinking that they were both about to become Titans.
Speaker: Or untouched. suppose if that's the case then. Right, yeah. Which, like, that makes sense, but it doesn't... Again, i don't if I have if I have to have chat, which is infinitely smarter than me.
Speaker: Let's be honest. Explain to me that that how Tristan just died or the the what happened. It doesn't hit hard enough and it's not worth the death. It's not worth the death. If I'm like, I don't understand. There's a good amount of interpolating that needs to happen.
Speaker: Yeah, no, there yeah yeah if that's that's that's how Wild Bo just writes. is It just, it's there's so much wordage, he's so verbose that whatever is going on gets lost in this.
Speaker: You can, I sped read through this entire chapter in my classic style where like normally I break it up, but I i read through this all in a day. And let me tell you, You really can read like every 30th word and understand the entire plot. Like there is so little necessary information, you know, and for that is going on and relayed via these words that when all of a sudden there is some something that needs is necessary.
Speaker: All of a sudden, you're like, okay, well, that matters now. I'm supposed to get that when 98% of these words on the page literally don't matter. Yeah. um My favorite thing is yeah ah having that moment where you're reading and then you kind of zone out for a bit. you have to go back and reread because you forgot. Yeah, when you're like, what?
Speaker: But then you do that and you're like, I never i didn't miss anything. Never mind. Exactly. yeah exactly the old That is wild bow for me. We're like, oh, did I miss something? Goes back. No, no, I didn't.
Speaker: I don't even remember reading this and I can tell you I didn't need it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah J-Man says here, ah struggle to think of any protagonist deaths that while those really landed for me. but My favorite deaths that struck me are antagonists like Alexandria or Coyle. And I have to agree. I have to agree. Those deaths hit so well. And it's not because, i don't think it's because they're antagonists. I think it's because they're gritty. They're deep. they You feel it.
Speaker: Alexandria's death the worst. visceral and it feels good not just because we hate her like fuck that bitch but also because like it's described so well it feels so cinematic like i can see it perfectly in my head this and that's how much yeah it's so and her death is so simple you know, they're, they're, you know, we've sensed that they, that the people are, not you know, there's, there are bodies there, you know, your actions have consequences. Uh, and then all the bugs, all the bugs start going down her throat and she tries to get to out of atmosphere and just, you know, launches herself and she's going and she's through the roof and she's going and the bugs are crawling through her and they're beating, you know, Taylor's head in and then she blacks out and we don't know what happened.
Speaker: yeah Like that's incredible. And it's also, even though there are two different locations for the scene with what's going on, it is very straightforward.
Speaker: We un all understood. um Coil is a little bit of a different example. we we get the scenario and have no idea where it's taking place, even though it's apparently on a beach.
Speaker: yeah I think all of us forgot it was on a beach. The beach does not matter. This could be in a school gymnasium and it wouldn't matter. Like, yeah, the location doesn't matter, but his death is so like, put him on the ground, you know, good it's so good. You know, he can't reset his whole thing. I don't know if count Eidolon as an antagonist exactly, but even his death is like also, you know, sure. Why not? i know at it Great death.
Speaker: And it's super simple. He's standing in front of him and he just hyper beam. yeah yeah Yeah, just you needed worthy opponents and then bam, gone. Fran, you might actually be right.
Speaker: The twig death in there, although I will say it is a tiny bit confusing what happened. um to not Not nearly as much as these, but a tiny bit. So I think it's worth like you read it and then I know I had to go back and go, wait, what?
Speaker: And reread like the previous page one more time to make sure. But it's nowhere near as complicated as this. um yeah And I do think it is the best, it's probably one of the best deaths.
Speaker: if If we're talking about death in the chat. yeah Or in the comments after this comes out. period yeah unless they Unless it happens in ARC-20, in which case, don't say anything. Yeah, i don't say I'm still excited to see next arc who else is going to die. This really is shocking to me that we've gone this far and we've lost.
Speaker: and and number yeah twenty we's been in swan song yeah One and a half, technically? one and a half to to cut through some of our harsh criticism here, i will just have to say it is remarkable how good Wild Bo is at world building because just on the world alone, I'm still so interested in how he's going to wrap this up, which is crazy. Yeah. yeah like i one I am on the edge of my seat.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah i've I've got a lot of critiques with character, but world building is... I'm not going to... Hold on. I will counter ah anticipating an ending and a wrap-up. Oh, no. Because i am interested in a lot of horror movies, like shitty horror movie lore.
Speaker: That doesn't mean it's good. doesn't even mean the lore is good. but like, there's a nugget of like, okay, this is interesting. I got to know what's going on. So I'll read the wiki. And guess what?
Speaker: It's usually dumb as hell. um And I'm like, okay, that's an ending. Like, so just because you I feel like that sunk cost fallacy at this point where we're like, certainly be. got it. Well, I got we're this far. I got to know what happens.
Speaker: Yeah. It might be. My confidence that he will stick the landing has i diminished a little bit, but I am still interested in finding out. but We kind of have like two and a half arcs, right? Because we've got 20, but then there's also like a ton of epilogue stuff too.
Speaker: Is it really? yeah Half of the next...
Speaker: No, no, a little less than half. I'm looking at the table right now. Are... um It's 19 as a, i was about to say, yeah. is like all the way through to And then you have and then ten then b eleven then twenty epilogues then yeah then twenty point e one e two e three four five six and then yeah Okay. Yeah, quite a lot of epilogues. Yeah, it's still all 20.
Speaker: Good God. So so basically what you're telling me is that we have we have... So for next time, whenever we get on again, it'll be the end of the story.
Speaker: And then the next time it'll be the epilogue. So we're literally... maybe i mean maybe we don't That seems like a lot to break 20.1 to 20.11 seems like quite a lot to get through. so We'll let Alan tell us where that breaks up later. yeah It's going to be 20.1 to 20.8.
Speaker: ah That is like the halfway mark. We're just to do a half and a half. Good stopping point. So we'll get a setup and then we'll get the ah the big finish in epilogue. look Big finish in epilogue.
Speaker: Okay, I will say i got to this point where I was like... um i Based on the amount of hype... type that we got, i fully expected us to run into ah Sleeper way more. And I kind of assumed that Sleeper would be like this big thing. And I'm like, where's Sleeper? Like I was, i don't know.
Speaker: ah this I'm going to blame it on chat. I was under the assumption that like Sleeper was going to take a much larger role at the end of the story. And I'm like, are we bringing in Sleeper or Nabra? Because like I don't know where he where he is. and he's like like He's still the cat. and is this He's the cat in the cabin. He's the cat aing out yeah yeah in the cabin.
Speaker: As Fran said, don't worry, guys. Surely the Machine Army will make their move soon. Oh, Fran deleted the comment. Oh, my God. No, pretty. No true, though. There we go. Thank you. They make another minor appearance later on. Don't worry. they Yeah. Oh, God. know, you know i I know it does actually. Ironically, it matters more to Star Wars Episode 3 than the Machine Army has mattered to Ward.
Speaker: But all I can think of is the clip in the Jedi Council where Ki-Adi Moondi is like, what about the attack on the Wookiees? Just the total sidebar. It's like out of nowhere.
Speaker: Where it's just like, everybody, everybody. And it's like, like well what about the machine army? Ah, the machine army. It was just the complete sidebar.
Speaker: That's good. ah Yeah. Anyway, we got a lot more to get through. Beeparoni, how dare you? what Listen, i don't gaslight me. Listen.
Speaker: this where to get the real i the real lady The real sleeper is the nap we took along the way, right? Yeah, exactly. No. Basically, basically. Oh my god. Okay. because He loves sleeper because he doesn't care. fra Fran, i I have to agree. i I don't know. I just thought that that sleeper would make such a bigger appearance, like deus ex machina moment. I don't know. And you know, listen, we still have a couple more chapters. I kind of just assumed.
Speaker: Something could happen. I don't know. Chekhov would be very displeased with Wild Bill. Oh my Chekhov would pick up the gun so early and kill Wild Bill. There's a few unfired Chekhov's guns. There's a Chekhov's arsenal somewhere. Oh God. Oh boy. I will have...
Speaker: yeah I have to say there I do read, listen, y'all know this, I do read a lot of smut, ah and I do read a lot of just, like, silly, fun little romance books and other things, ah you know, when I'm not reading Ward or Worm the last, you know, three and a half, four years of my life. But ah I recently read a book that I thought was, like, really good and really enjoyed it, and it was, like, smart and had some, like, really...
Speaker: cool plots that were happening and you're like oh I don't know what the plan is and then when they reveal it you're like what was so cool which I feel like Wildo's trying to do here but like I know that I'm I I know that that that there's just things that I like there has there has to have been a bigger plan that Wildo just had to cut short like I have to I have to believe this to hold any sort of like hope for the future of me reading wild those works of that just like that that there that he just had to be like oh man i'm gonna cut this one short and so i had all this fun stuff planned i was gonna wrap this up this way and i was to tie this in and i'm just not gonna do those things and it's not gonna make as much sense but it's fine like i have to believe that that's what's happened that's what happened rather than him just be like well people don't like it we're just gonna wrap it up
Speaker: fran Fran said all we know about him is that he reads out loud to himself in a chair. So I've got this now this new headcanon, right? sleeper Sleeper was a young, early trigger.
Speaker: And as we know, those are often more powerful. um Don't know what his powers are. it doesn't really matter. Just know it's super powerful. However, he triggered so young, he he doesn't actually know how to read very well.
Speaker: And so I'm imagining one of the most powerful pair of humans is just sitting in a lawn chair, slowly reading the cat in the hat to himself out loud. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And like trying to teach himself how to read. like Yeah. Just like a 35 or 40 year old man. It's like, I have all the power in the universe, but I can't read.
Speaker: It's like the silent E ands in some word. It's like, curse you, silent E. Yeah, he just pronounces everything like Megamind because he's only read them before. Yeah. he's like yeah exactly yeah I've got some phlegm in my throat. what yeah He's just a homeschool kid is all he is. Poor guy. who Also, J-Man, I am very excited to have you read these epilogues with us. ah That's nice. i ah You guys, since you guys, for the most part, have like read all of this already, i you guys have you have the knowledge before us, and your hindsight is is is good. So it's nice that you'll be on the same page as us.
Speaker: All right. Well, Now that we've spent 45 minutes on the first two parts of the thing. Always. 19.7, shall we?
Speaker: Any other comments on Tristan? All right. um but Okay, 19... I'm going to throw 19.7 and 8 together. 9 is enough on its own, but 7 is a bit small, I felt like. 19.7. and Rain hunt for Fortuna's region of the Shard Network.
Speaker: We contact Tattletail and Kinsey for help finding it, and the group learns about Tristan's death.
Speaker: The group learns learns about Contessa's weaknesses and tries to strategize against her. Victoria tracks down the chicken tenders and sees Skitter and Dean in the crystals.
Speaker: Hey, listen. every Every cameo that girl gets makes me excited. It makes me so excited. I get a little spark of hope in my heart every time. like That's only yeah going to go, you know who we need? Dunk, dunk, dunk.
Speaker: Skitter, baby. One last job. One last time. I need yeah keep hoping for it. I keep hoping for it. Aura farming memes from the Odyssey, but it's just Skitter every time she's referenced. Yeah. yeah That's perfect. It's just a helmet with bugs going down. Amazing.
Speaker: but my God. ah Which, okay, actually, that just reminds me that, Jacob, I have thoughts to talk to you about the Odyssey at another date. Yeah. So, anyways.
Speaker: Sorry, you reminded me. I haven't seen it yet. I still need to see it. I i want to. As soon as Nick leaves, we'll talk about it. Yeah, B-. Fair just yeah mar enough. ok Yeah, we'll talk about it, Jacob. yeah. Okay, all right. That's fine. Anyways. um um Yeah. yeah yeah i I'm trying to think of Like, genuinely, I'm trying to think about what happens in here.
Speaker: What are Contessa's weaknesses? I know we talked about yeah obviously other other thinkers are a weakness. yeah There's another limitation they talk about. So she can't essentially like it's the whole like you can't do yourself with your power um so while she can ask questions um about that we talked about that like she's looking at the future and going okay what are all these things that are going to happen and the answer is she was the bomb
Speaker: But she can't see that. So when she's like using her power to be like, what do I need to do to avoid all these things? That's great because it's like involving other people.
Speaker: But at the end of the day for this one, she was the. He was the cataclysm. a cat cataclysm Catalyst. Catalyst. yeah ah So um she was unable to see that in this case, what they're going to try and do. It sounds like is they've established. Here's the future we're shooting for. um,
Speaker: in a shitty that's so Raven type movie, um, moment. It sounds like they might be trying to do something. We're like, okay, let's get them to that future, but not like they expected where one, where we all pretend we're dead and they leave or something, you know?
Speaker: Yeah. Oh my gosh, but I saw you die. And it's like, yeah, but I back to the future. and I, you told me to wear a bulletproof vest. And so it only looked like I was dead. a Bill and Ted's time travel adventure.
Speaker: I was going back to the future, but he also Bill and Ted, yeah. Yeah. yeah ah the Also, number boy number five um talks about the whole, like, well, if she's tired, then she has to, like, think harder, but even then, like, she still, it still doesn't, like, she still can see stuff. She just, like,
Speaker: it it might take 50 steps to get there instead of 11 steps to get there because she's having to like think a little bit harder and but like she still sees the path to victory it's just that there are potentially more steps in the mix and yeah that sucks but all right yeah yeah i mean uh number lab number five is always uh Always a a king.
Speaker: Appreciate it. Yes. being around Gosh, i love I love that he's just been like tagging along behind Sveta this whole time. Like that they've just kind of become a little pair. Like I love that. Five is great.
Speaker: but i just love the number lads. is it Is it Victoria that we see them through her eyes or was it Moonsong where she's like, what's going on there? Is there something there? What's happening? What's that? What what is this?
Speaker: I think it's in Moonsong. I think Moonsong is there briefly with... Because Feta's there when Tristan sacrifices himself. um So I think number five is there too. Because they're the ones who deliver the news about Tristan's death. um yeah yeah And so i think I think she's like... What? yeah Yeah, she has that moment of like, what is up with him? like How is he yeah doing that?
Speaker: yeah And he's clearly like tagging along with her. what What is going on here? What is this? but is yes yeah I like it. i mean that's a We love a number lad. That's ah that's a ship. What do we call it?
Speaker: Feta? Is that their ship name? no. Did you say feta? I said feta. No, I said feta, like the cheese. Feta, like the cheese.
Speaker: ah That's rough. Oh, man. It's a no, but I can't think of anything better at the moment, so... yeah What about Survive? survive Or Civ?
Speaker: Civ? siv i still like Veta at best. Oh, I don't like that, actually. no Sorry.
Speaker: You'd work something with like a harbinger in there. Yeah, right. well Svedinger? Gara-binger? Yeah. Gara-binger? Gar-binger. Gar-binger? Gar-binger.
Speaker: That's our better stupid. It's so stupid. that It's stupid, but I like it. It's funny. Mambo number five. Hilarious.
Speaker: mobo number five no no Mambo number five. There you go. I like that a lot. That's not bad. Oh, man. Thank you. Yeah. Anyways. Okay.
Speaker: Okay. Obviously, we have a lot to say about seven and eight with the track. Yeah, clearly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I actually don't have much to say. i don't remember it that well. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, we have the we have. When. I'm sorry, but my brain my brain couldn't form a sentence there for a moment. ah When Victoria jesus goes and sees all the stuff in the crystals and then like seeing Skitter and with Aiden and the yeah, I just it makes me sad every time it like it's like losing like not like losing a mom exactly but like Skitter and Aiden's powers being so similar and
Speaker: Like, it would have been so... would have been so great to have her have her here, you know? ah But yeah, but but it's it's interesting to me to like that they've been trying to figure out their way through the crystal by trying to track like what they're seeing in the crystal. It's like, okay, so now we're in the...
Speaker: you know, vaguely disgusting section. And over here, we think this is ah you know, no rental figures that make us mad or, you know, just trying to like find their way. And this one is like faint, faint, vaguely gross.
Speaker: yeah They're trying to make their way through the crystal by, by just like reading off the images in the crystal, which I find very interesting. But, um, Oh, they also have the moment um she and Aiden. Is that here or is that later?
Speaker: Where they step down on the black crystal and it like echoes really weirdly. Is that here? was that at this part? Maybe. I feel like that's around here. because they're I feel like that's around here because it's when they're they're putting they're putting together stuff with Contessa. Like they're realizing...
Speaker: some weaknesses like how things connect and like oh this is this crystal is different like this isn't like the red or the white crystal like this is black crystal and it like echoes sound weird and it's like okay yeah it's that's what does that mean I don't know It's the Fortuna crystal, which is not part of the rest of the crystal shard space because it's from... Yes, yes, yes, yes. Apollyon? Abaddon? Yes, right. Because they're putting the connections together of like realizing, okay, well, what happened before the life cycle of this? And they're like seeing the pictures of like the previous cycles of...
Speaker: you know the the entities and like what was going on before them and like the previous planets basically that they've taken over and then just like oh that's kind of gotta be such weird like obviously you're constantly staring into the face of your own mortality but like that's gotta be so weird to realize that like the powers that you think made you so special are these entities that have just
Speaker: worlds and universes across the galaxy and they've come to your world and like the the power that you connect with so much and like even in the the next chapter where they get the talk of like this is where powers come from or like this is trigger events of like victoria wants power she wants to be like her parents and like To think that, oh, that all comes from these entities that have cycled through planets and we're just next on the list. like Yeah.
Speaker: That's got to be really, really fucking weird. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if it's in this section or if it's in a different one, but their explanation of how... The Titans and ah the Simurg are two sides of a similar coin in a sense where they're both like emergency plans the entities had. So the Titans are like, okay, if they're not aggressive enough, we'll just start blowing them up to huge sizes and proportions and force the conflict in the endgame.
Speaker: And then the Simurg is like the, my hand's not showing up on camera because of the background, but um the Simurg is the other side of the coin where it's like, is in my understanding at least, it's sort of the emergency button of, well, we need to get everything under control and get everything back together.
Speaker: And that's kind of what the Simurg is doing. um So it's it's kind of interesting that without the brain at the top of you know the entities telling them what to do, they're sort of chaotically still trying to live out their cycle, but not fully fully there. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah It's like there's a piece of the code missing, and it's like yeah yeah software or hardware still trying to like make it make the connections happen, but like chunks are missing. And so it's like, okay, well, we're going to have to reroute this, make it work.
Speaker: I don't think it's until maybe a couple other couple chapters from now. I can't quite remember where it is. But they make another reference to the fact that Abaddon is definitely not coming back.
Speaker: Or something like that. It's going to take like five... 500 million years or whatever for them to come back this way. Exactly. But I just have to point out, it's like the second time that they've mentioned that this thing is definitely not happening, that nobody's thinking about except the reader.
Speaker: So like, yeah the reader is like, he's coming back. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. like All I was saying is if we get one, one Abaddon epilogue at the end, I'll be happy. but just Just like, what if it was just like, you know, like a, like a, like a, um, a road trip, a road trip epilogue, but it's just Abaddon like visiting all of his previous destinations.
Speaker: and just comes back around to Earth and is just like, what the hell happened? Yeah, that's Him being like, oh shit. Yeah, I'm still imagining the ending where it's the Devilman Crybaby ending where like basically nothing is left.
Speaker: And so that fits perfectly with that where Abaddon just swoops by and is like, yo, what the hell? yeah Like a post-credits scene. it' just Yeah, post-credits scene. It's just him driving by and just like rolling up the window. like Yeah, like, you you drive by, like, you drive by what is clearly not only a car accident, but a murder scene, and you're just like... yeah There's two bodies on the ground on fire. yeah She's keep going.
Speaker: You show up for a Facebook Marketplace pickup, and there's cop cars on the street, and suddenly you're like... You just keep driving. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Yeah, pretty much. You know what? I got the meme. We're going to do the Donald Glover meme as Abaddon coming back into the apartment on fire. on fire with the pizza. You put one of them as Titans, one of them as Victoria, blowing all of Shard Space or whatever. again. the fire is just like dead shards trying to get their shit back together to like cause the apocalypse there's also a great clip of a Waymo driving through an active shooter situation which would work really well I've seen that that's it that's it too oh my god I love it that's hilarious Waymo's Waymo's are insane
Speaker: Oh, they're so funny. I love it. alli Most unaware. so good. wait but So i learned I learned a funny thing about Waymos. Unrelated. um Although it's sort of related because it's sort of like shards in Corona Polingia. So Waymos are not completely non-human operated.
Speaker: There is somebody who is... There is somebody, ah likely a person in the Philippines, who is watching what the car is doing and monitoring it for any unusual behavior and trying to keep it on track.
Speaker: And allowing it to go straight through an active privacy. I mean, they probably couldn't. Maybe they couldn't see where it was. no but you know But yes, they are technically, quote unquote, driven by somebody in another Is this an insurance thing you just learned?
Speaker: yeah i learned about it Yeah, I learned about it in a YouTube short because it was about like insurance liability and legal liability. And like, like if a Waymo causes a car accident, who is liable for the car accident? Is it the person who bought the Waymo and purchased the ride? Is it the person in the Philippines driving it? Oh my That's awesome. It's so random.
Speaker: Oh, wow. Who knew? Anyways, J-Man did say, there's so much cool stuff here. I know it's completely impractical with a web serial, but if Word could get an editing pass, it could be one of my favorites.
Speaker: and And I think that... I do agree. That is fair. That is fair. i mean I mean, and I'll hold my assessment for the ending. Yeah. Yeah. I'll hold my assessment for the ending because I think...
Speaker: um there's a difference between an editing pass that fixes a lot of the issues we've talked about, but if the ending ultimately falls flat, then it's going to need more than just a pass, is what i it's what I'm saying. Yeah. you know i think this And we'll see. messy I'm not sure.
Speaker: yeah i think Jacob and I going through, or you know all of us would want to, and I would like to go through and give big editing notes on what like arcs just need to be cut out.
Speaker: and what character things need to be like, which characters maybe even just need to get cut ah so that we can focus on um you know, what matters. Because you're right.
Speaker: i like Ward a lot for very specific reasons that are absent from Wyrm. um And unfortunately, it gets mired down in a lot of stuff that my brain just forgot about. Yeah. Probably because I blow through ward yeah when I'm reading or listening to it normally. It's just, you know, back to back to back to back.
Speaker: No pause or hesitation for me. and then now having to read and then digest it for a little bit and then talk about it. i'm like, oh, yeah, like.
Speaker: The reason, you know, any of this is terrible is because I remember it this time.
Speaker: um Hot take, cut Victoria. Anyways. um I would have to agree, actually. ah for very specific reasons. Out of your mind. it's It's specifically because she she's so strategic.
Speaker: And the problem is is that like the strategy isn't as interesting. like The mental strategy of putting things together and connecting, it's not as interesting.
Speaker: Ugh. Hmm. yeah I would argue that if you like any particular show that involves a group of people and there is a interesting leader character who helps them organize their thoughts and you cut them out, you would not like Criminal Minds all that much.
Speaker: good but
Speaker: Interesting. Sure. I have not seen it. Fran says, don't worry, you're going to change. Sorry. and go ahead Fran says you're going to change your minds when you get to the Dot the Goblin prologue. It's going to tie it all together. When we start Ward 3. In the beginning, there was Dot.
Speaker: This is all of this is all a setup for the Dot the Goblin. dod the Goblin. you know Didn't you say he did a goblin romance or something? Is that Dot's story? Is that what we're getting after this?
Speaker: What? Absolutely. no I will tell you, if we ever get around to reading Pact, there is a goblin romance.
Speaker: Oh, hell yeah. You've piqued my interest, but let's keep going. Goblin penis. Goblin penis. yeah There's so much goblin penis. Oh my god.
Speaker: There's always Nick. There's always Nick. It really is actually though.
Speaker: You can't, but you when you say that, like you know what that sounds like, right? yeah Goblin penis? Yeah! Hannah, I don't understand what you mean. ah Hannah, tell me, what could goblin penis sound like?
Speaker: Yeah, using sound effects only. Is this a mind goblin thing?
Speaker: mine come Oh my god. Okay, we gotta move. got We gotta go. you going anyways Keep going. Anyways, 19.9. Flashback to the aftermath of Crystal's and Victoria's trigger events. Vicky muses on her relationship with Dean, and the group gets a vision of the Titans' victory. Yeah.
Speaker: I forgot that we were still in this in the shard space. I thought we'd already gone past this. We're no a yet they're still near. Wake me up when we're done.
Speaker: oh my god I do really like this chapter a lot, though, because i feel like it gives us more insight with the whole Amy-Victoria dynamic, which, knowing now what we know, like, if Amy and how to had a major crush on Victoria this whole time, like, that kind of flirty behavior that feels very sibling, because obviously you've been raised as siblings, it feels very sibling. But, like, knowing that Amy...
Speaker: you know, it develops this crush for Victoria that turns into obsession that turns into obviously a huge problem. It's like them like playing footsie under the blanket just feels so... Yeah.
Speaker: ick Yeah, it was a it was a dynamic. And we do learn... I enjoyed reading it. Let's be clear. Yeah, it was good. It was good. But I enjoyed the dynamic. and And we do learn, right, that Victoria's aura is Not really fear. It's like awe and love is what she says. of it Like she gets it after this, right? I think this is where it all clicks and they kind of see like, oh, I get it now. Either 1908 or 1909, one of the two.
Speaker: Where she's like, I finally get it. Or maybe that was the last section. I don't remember. It's all vague. I think it's here. i think it's here somewhere where she's like, I finally, it feels like her powers click.
Speaker: And then she has like more control over her aura, over her her wretch. i Like she can do the bubble thing kind of with her power. um Very interesting. and And that does not to excuse what Amy did, of course, but yeah it does make it more complicated than it might actually appear. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. i know in in terms of In terms of parenting, though, um I do love the two very different parenting dynamics. wheres So do I. The scene with like Eric, ah Victoria, and Amy, and Crystal, and they're like, like Eric and Crystal's parents, I can't remember their name, forgive me, ah Sarah and Mark.
Speaker: no no a no error that No. Eric. No, Eric's is done. me um and Neil. yeah Neil and Sarah. They clearly have a much more like...
Speaker: Not exactly gentle parenting, but that's basically what it is. where They're like, we're going to come at this gently and try to yeah try to ease Eric into this understanding. Soften the blow. Like, hey. And then you know Crystal is just like, yeah, it's going to suck. You might kill somebody.
Speaker: Yeah. But I think... yeah yeah Good work on the memes there. If you would like to see the meme that Jacob made, be a patron and you can look at it. I was wondering why Jacob's being so quiet. That makes a lot of sense. I heard a call.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, exactly. Oh, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on. in there. That's phenomenal.
Speaker: It's what we were talking about. Most excellent. The community mean that <unk> meme. Yes, the community meme.
Speaker: Yeah. um Yeah, so just all of that together. um i think, though, with something like this, I'm trying to think about the way that I would introduce this to my children if I needed them to know something like this.
Speaker: um To put on the dad hat. And I think, actually, i would lean towards crystals. Not crystal. ah Carol's method of just being really blunt about it.
Speaker: Like, not as blunt as she is, but like, know. Her tact isn't. Her tact isn't there. So a bit more of that maybe. But like, you know, your kids are teenagers. They've seen you be heroes. They know what's involved in it.
Speaker: And you're trying to dissuade them from the lie that, hey, sometimes you trigger from good things. Right. Which, You know, maybe theoretically is true, but it doesn't seem to be the case. um And I think i in a weird way, Carol kind of has the right take on it of like, hey, look, this really sucked for Crystal.
Speaker: And we want to warn you guys so it maybe doesn't suck as bad for you. Because it's going to suck when it happens. You know? Yeah. I don't know.
Speaker: don't know. Um... We do get that vision of the Titans ultimate victory where it's Titan Fortuna. What I'm trying to remember because it's been a while since I read this one. Is it just like ultimate control and uniting of all the shards again basically is kind of what the victory state is for the Titan? I think. Who the hell knows? Yeah, it's it's not. I think it's intentionally not clear.
Speaker: That seems to be the idea. The only thing that stood out to me was, is this the part where it's it's this vision where they see a tightened ah a tighttaned Valkyrie specifically because Eidolon is present and Eidolon's shard is fully realized or whatever and is just able to dominate anything. i think it's It's like pumping out Endbringers, right? basically yeah Essentially. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. is Because it it caught me at first. i was like, I'm sorry, what's happening? Like, you what are we seeing? And realizing it and being like, oh, shit. Okay. And then realizing like, okay, we're seeing it in the crystal. Like, okay. Because it, oh, man, that caught me. That was another one of those things where I'm like, did I miss something? I need to go back just the little bit here. I'm sorry. How many Endbringers?
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Speaker: I mean, i do we do love any old reference back to any Endbringers. I'm like, let's go. Those were the ultimate baddies. The good old the good old days Yeah, when things were simple. Let me just relive, reread Arcade again. just Oh my god, but actually though, i kind of need to. you guys do you guys remember when they they introduced Kansu and Tohu and Bohu and we were like, what the heck is going on? This is way too much happening right now. This is too crazy.
Speaker: We were so silly back then. So naive. Okay, the chat is saying Eidolon Vision is the Simurg's plan, not the Titan's plan. Okay, gotcha. That makes more sense. That's what I thought too, actually.
Speaker: I didn't quite remember, but I thought the summary was wrong. It's more the Simurg's victory, which is like everybody enslaved to the Simurg. That's what it was. What a baddie. What a baddie. Honestly. I mean, honestly. I love her so much. I love her. I love her.
Speaker: It's just, li on you guys, I've been like holding off getting my ward slash worm tattoo because i i I think I want to get the Simmerick, but I've been holding off because I need to see how the book ends just in case something really bad happens and that I don't want, you know, the Simmerick tattooed on me forever.
Speaker: So I've been holding off, but like this was me being like, hello? We're going to get another final interlude. A final end of December that's going to be, and in my perfect world, nobody has tattoos. Yeah, yeah yeah you don't you don't want to be the guy who got the Griffith from Berserk tattoo before he betrayed his squad.
Speaker: Woof. I like to think of anybody who got a Tamlin tattoo from the Court of Thorn and Roses series after only reading the first book in that series and then him turning into the villain for the rest of the series because he was the love interest in the first book. And then he's a narcissistic asshole in the rest of the series. So... but watch the um ah The new baby names for Khaleesi, just like steadily rising for Game of Thrones and then a plummet. And then dips right off. Hilarious. That's funny. I love it.
Speaker: Fran says the Simurg just wants her dad back. I mean, yeah. Don't we all? Don't we all want big daddy? Keep it over this. The Simurg is just Taylor.
Speaker: Basically. yeah Yeah. Fair enough. Well, 19F. Yeah. All right. 19F interlude. Imp. Aisha watches the heartbroken solve an argument, tries to talk with Brian.
Speaker: Kinsey tries to find ways to bring back Tristan, confesses to Candy, and threatens her and Imp for trying to talk her into taking a break. Imp tranquilizes Kinsey to force the issue. Okay, although although it is not a death, this is a good example of a chaotic scene, but I know exactly what happens to the two Kinsey by the end, right? Thank you, yeah. A really well-written, precise, like, oh, Imp tranquilizes Kinsey. Like, we get what happens, right? yeah And of course, it helps that we're we're in Imp's character perspective, too, but just as comparison to what we were talking about with Tristan, where it's like,
Speaker: Ah, this was very clear even though it was very chaotic. Yeah. um Definitely. I love being in Imp's head again. The last time we were in her head I think was in one of the ah the very, very end interludes of the ah Worm.
Speaker: I think. Yeah, right. Did she not have an interlude? I feel like we had an interlude, but I can't remember. Chat, did Imp have a word interlude?
Speaker: I feel like she did. Yeah, she did. It's literally the la like a whole last section where she's with the heartbroken torturing that warlord at the end. Yeah, that's at the end of Worm. That was in Worm. I was asking if she had a ward.
Speaker: Oh, no. She had a ward interlude. Okay. yeah oh This is it. This is her first ward one. I like it, though, because I think her and and ah but all of her interactions with the Heartbroken is like so good. Like she has changed so much since, you know, we knew her as a literal child. Yeah.
Speaker: And just, I think how she handles them is just so good. Like, she's not being a mom. She's literally just letting them do their thing. But she's, like, sitting back and waiting for them to solve their own issues. And, like, she does little things, you know, like, you know, squirching the sauce packets and stuff like that of just, like...
Speaker: making little changes and, you know, saying things, hoping that maybe somehow they'll hear her. um And, and I, but I really love that. I really like this, her dynamic of like, she knows she's going to step in if she absolutely needs to, but she wants them to be able to handle it themselves and solve the problems by themselves.
Speaker: But she's, she's so good at like keeping an eye on everything. She's like making sure everything's okay. And everyone's safe basically it's like they can have the pranks and the the you know point scoring and everything else but like if people are not safe she will step in which i just i think is great and
Speaker: yeah yeah what a rough what a rough interlude though i mean like oh yeah the The whole thing with Brian, too, where she's like, it's not, like, I know that Brian and I weren't close, but I can tell it's not him. and or is not him.
Speaker: um
Speaker: that hurt Yeah, yeah. J-Man also mentioned the concept of things getting through to people if she talks even though they don't distinctly remember is neat. I do like that too where she can like kind of phase in and trickle in a thought or phase in and pull something out and then phase back out and it's like, oh yeah, right. You know, very Inception-esque in the way that she can do that.
Speaker: Yeah. um Yeah, I mean to this day it's still one of the coolest powers. just i But so we do have one, we have discovered there is at least one person who can negate her power that we know of now. Because Kinsey yeah can see her all the time if she wants to. ah Yeah, because we've talked about... Man, boxes, man.
Speaker: Her stuff will degrade stuff, like cameras, over time. and But... um Yeah.
Speaker: Doesn't mean they don't detect her. yeah Exactly. Yeah. yeah Which I think is very cool. Very neat. And there is, there is, Aiden mentions, Aiden, Aiden mentions when they're in shard space that like, part of one of the things that that like, well, since we're here, could we also maybe find a way to like, Yeah. Remember but her in case she is dying and injured so that we don't just all forget about her. And it's kind of nice to know that like, if something were to happen,
Speaker: Like, Kenzie would know. Which is, Kenzie shouldn't have to know. Of all the people. Yeah, right. Of all the people who would be there. Yeah, that, like, someone could see her if something happens to her.
Speaker: Oof. That's a scary thought. I had forgotten about that. And getting that reminder right before her chapter felt a little scary. oh know yeah. yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And like remember, if she dies, well, you know, her power is always on. So let's hope she doesn't get hurt or die. man Immediately after it's a chapter with Imp, I'm like, oh no. classic yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um aiden's such a sweet boy too just he's like well i'd really like to stop tattletail's headaches if i could and but you know m's always worried about being forgotten i'm like oh aiden he's sweet boy he's such a good guy he's great kiddo i do think uh
Speaker: Aiden would have been more interesting in Kenzie's place in this story. From the beginning. Yeah. i part of the i have to agree. Yeah.
Speaker: Interesting. Interesting. Again, what are going do? I'm losing sympathy for Kenzie if you guys couldn't figure that out. Oh, I can tell. Tell how you feel about feel. I already talked about Kenzie. I've explained. i've It's just more of the same. It's just I don't see growth. I don't see character development. I don't see of of a reason to sympathize with her at this point. Yeah.
Speaker: or I mean, there's reasons, but they're they're dwindling. And and um I feel bad for her. um
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know. i I don't know where her character goes from here. I just have a hard time. Assuming she doesn't die. i don't know. i don't know how her character gets wrapped up. Although, let's... i mean, at the end of this, her little section here, ah not not this chapter, but the next chapter, feel like she does have a moment that is significant compared to all of the other stuff we have go have had go on for Kinsey.
Speaker: which is that she removes her tech that she could have kept hidden. shake that off She could have. That happens in the Gru interlude. 19G.
Speaker: yeah yeah Yeah. Like, she finally says, like, hey, also one more thing, and then pulls her eye camera out. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. so i Yeah, I mean, i ah her her trajectory is unlike most people where there's, like,
Speaker: um you know, just kind of a steady progression up. Hers is this, you know, up, down, up, down,
Speaker: um which if she were the only character that that was going on you know, like, I would say kind of maintaining status quo overall, then it probably wouldn't be as egregious to have the one character who's struggling all the time just be that.
Speaker: um ah And I think it's it's often for her, it is seeing, um it's almost just seeing what Kenzie was.
Speaker: you know, we got an indication of that for Tristan, where we saw what Tristan was at one point in time. um And now where he's at.
Speaker: ah and it does recontextualize some stuff for the character, but for Kenzie, hers, you know, just kind of,
Speaker: I think adds layers to her character. It'll be like, oh yeah, this is what happens. That's really terrible. And then just kind of continues to show like, no, we established that there are characters who have said she's a, she's super dangerous.
Speaker: Don't let her, you know, off the hook for anything. And it is almost like it takes all of this for us to go, oh, they told us this at the beginning.
Speaker: yeah We just didn't listen because we we were like, oh, Kenzie's very cute. um she you know She's just a kid. ah like There's all these mitigating factors.
Speaker: But at the end, she's not okay. And she really needs a lot of help and structure. And you know it's not necessarily like she's getting that. Yeah.
Speaker: She's ah written like a very believable child. Yeah. Because she is a literal child. She literally is a child. it's It's really easy to forget that like kid logic and yeah kid brain and a child with insanely powerful powers.
Speaker: Absolutely. And yeah a lot of trauma. So it's like, yeah, we don't like her, but it's believable at the same time. Yeah. yeah Yeah, but I read fantasy for the Unbelievably. That makes sense. Yeah. I think. does it Yeah. I don't know. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, there's a funny, there's a comedian that has a joke about that, but he goes, it's with game of Thrones. He says, you know, you know, the way you've watched game of Thrones, there's a lot of just violence and, and, and he uses some, some comedian language, but you know, sexual assault against women, things like that, which,
Speaker: is necessary to explain the lives that these women live in this fictional world of this man's imagination. Trust me, the assault is very important to this imaginary world. Right. It's just like, yeah. Yeah. yeah know so yeah yeah it is It is realistic for sure. But at the same time,
Speaker: like I'm reading a story. you got to yeah You choose that. gotta make it interesting. its the Real life isn't always that interesting. yeah ksey Kinsey is the tragic example of the sitcom character development, right? Where you can't really you can't really have sitcom characters develop because part of why they're funny is because they're flawed people who have weird, quirky issues.
Speaker: Yeah, like they're a character. They're a character. They're a caricature, yeah. So if if you have Chandler and friends suddenly be super secure in himself because he's learned to love himself and realizes that other people care about him, he's not Chandler anymore and he's not going to be self-deprecating and funny.
Speaker: You know, like it's, you can't actually have them develop. And Kinsey is kind of the tragic version of that where she's like, Oh, she she is meant to be the character who shows how screwed up the world is consistently.
Speaker: um And kind of like Fran says, Kenzie is supposed to show that despite any progress you've made, it's easier to just relapse and go back to being a piece of shit because it's easier. like yeah that's And that's kind of exactly what Kenzie's character arc has been so far. as like oh Every time you think she's making progress, in fact...
Speaker: she has not made progress. um It's just kind of been covered up with a veneer, which is frustrating, but at the same time, yeah i don't necessarily mind it for a side character like Kinsey. If it was our protagonist like Victoria, which you know maybe it is, if it was we could get there.
Speaker: Yeah, if it was our main character, right, where they're they're just not developing at all, and there's an argument to be made with Victoria that, you know, that's been something we've struggled with her. But...
Speaker: You know, that would be one thing. but violent yeah But having having it with Kinsey as a deuteragonist or a side character, I feel like it's meant to emphasize in a way the difference in how far Victoria's come with dealing with her trauma versus Kinsey like not being there yet. That's just some thoughts. I'm not saying I necessarily like it. Can you use that word again?
Speaker: Deuteragonist? Yes, I've never heard that before. I really like that. it's That is a great word. It's generic deuteragonist or deuteragonist.
Speaker: I don't know if I pronounced it right, but... Deuteragonist? Most of the time you see deuteroprotagonist. So you know the book of the Bible, Deuteronomy? It's spelled like that.
Speaker: D-E-U-T-E-R. Agonist. Deuteragonist. Deuteragonist. That's right Very, I mean, sounds, yeah, very cool.
Speaker: Actually, means like a secondary protagonist, typically, though, a companion character. So that'd be like Sam, Dr. Watson, Hermione, that kind of character. That makes lot of sense. Gotcha. Yeah. it fits better. All that to say, it fits a bit better with a secondary protagonist like Kenzie, even though i do agree it is a bit frustrating to...
Speaker: not have her scene to grow that much. But hey, I love Gru getting to use his powers and imp working with his It was cool. It was is a cool team-up moment. It was really cool. Even if Gru has to put on a human face apparently now. That's a freaky little detail.
Speaker: No, that the little bit at the end of his power was awesome. I did have a little like, oh, oh, he's doing the thing. He's doing it. thing That was great. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: All right. Well,
Speaker: also Also, just as a side note, just the the going from zero to 60 of like, hey, Candy, I like you.
Speaker: And I think you like me, too. And Candy's like like, not really. And Kinsey's like, no, no, I've measured your heartbeat when you're with me. I know you like me. Candy's like, it is. your Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah Holy macaroni and cheese. it's thats And then to be like, I'm going to blackmail you. So you love me. it's Yeah. It's a God. It's such a like.
Speaker: Oh yeah. No, not great. Uh, the, the, e No, the moment the moment that got me, I don't remember exactly how she said it, but at one point Imp is like, I need to go get help and like phases out and Kinsey's like, you get right back here right now, Imp. Yes. like well it Doesn't she, she like points her her shutter camera because she's like, I will flash us all right fucking now. And I will flash you too, Imp. And Imp is like, okay. Pops right back in.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it it yeah ah My optimistic hope here is that if we talk about Chekhov's guns not being fired, i do i do have a residual amount of optimism that Kenzie will get her moment to prove herself.
Speaker: And Tristan's not fully dead, and she is able to separate them, which has been kind of been building for a while. and like if so Or to some degree, right? If there's some resolution there with all of that, um i think that would be well earned at this point. but yeah We'll see. I'm not holding my breath, to be honest. No, not at all. But we'll see. i At this point, I'm kind of feeling like so she's given up.
Speaker: Or, well, we we'll get to that. But, like, she's having such having such a bad day. i Was anyone else surprised at her confession to Candy? Because I thought... No, ah it was it was... No.
Speaker: I thought she liked Aiden. I thought she had a huge crush on Aiden. Yes. She did. it It was mentioned previously that...
Speaker: excuse me, um, mentioned previously that, uh, she has two crushes and that's part of what she's struggling with. And, and she had a conversation. i don't remember if it was Victoria or not, but she did have a conversation previously about like having confused feelings and feeling, feeling for aid in one way. Not sure if something is a crush or just friendship.
Speaker: Um, you and And so I think it it was implied that there was somebody else besides just Aiden. Also, given the negative side of how her, like, attraction to just people in general, not even in a romantic sense, yeah seems to come but wonky manifest, it is of no surprise that she...
Speaker: is like, ah yeah as Fran said, the most pan-poly character ever. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Fair. Yeah. so yeah There are no boundaries in terms of like, I imagine like even between like just friends and like romantic partners for her. Just it's all everything all at once.
Speaker: Also, isn't she... chicken but She's still on her period, poor thing. She just started her period like yesterday. Oh, i forgot about the that. Her very first period. Listen, at there's nothing. she This poor girl, she is going through it. She is just going through it. have a way more. I mean, they only beat the Fallen like last week, so it's been a rough week. She stole a puppy this morning. she yeah confessed. yeah She lost Tristan, confessed to Candy this afternoon.
Speaker: God, the girls just can't catch a break. yeah Yeah. Got yelled at by the heartbroken last night. like of it's been a It's been a rough 30 minutes, you know.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, from when Victoria walked into the room to be like, hey, therapy group to, you know, 30 minutes later when Kenzie was in the room with Gru.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. Oh, man. Anyways. Shall we? Good time. yeah good time have some Nothing like drugging children force them to go to sleep. Oh, yeah. Listen, we've all Benadryl milkshake. It's babysitter's best friend. I would like it to be known. i babysat a lot.
Speaker: I never did that. I never. I had a Tristan and Byron type situation where i had two brothers that would actively try and murder each other. And I do mean like I watched a front door open as one of them ran inside and like a set of pliers like go into the wooden door like right behind his head.
Speaker: um so like I at one point in time literally had to tie them to chairs to not get them to murder each other. um So. You did. You're doing the Lord's work. You're doing the right thing. Yeah. hey you know Listen.
Speaker: Oh, man. Good times. Good times. Well, 19.10, speaking of good times. Yeah, yeah. Go for it.
Speaker: Victoria explores options for stopping the Titans and hits upon the idea of using their momentum against them, a.k.a. the clock skitter method, and goes to ask Amy for help.
Speaker: Amy refuses and keeps talking Counselor Darnall instead. You know what? Good for her. No! just No!
Speaker: What the fuck? I i just love Victoria's like, Amy's just like, Victoria, I'm getting a lot of mixed messages from you. First, you're like, go to therapy. Then you're like, no go to therapy. Save the world. I'm like, you know what?
Speaker: I'm just going to go to therapy. Also, yeah i again, with the with old Chekhov rearing his head again. Victoria's last comments about Amy were, if she's got her little patch, I'm going to kill her. like The idea that they would meet like this, again, this another another little mini frustration. I actually liked their conversation a lot. I thought that was great. So good.
Speaker: But I was like, oh, this isn't where I was wanting this to happen. like i I wish this would have been. Is it before or after this where Chris tells her,
Speaker: that Chris tells her earlier. he tells her in the end of the last arc. Well, Chris tells her about the patch. Who tells her that Dot ate it, though? but yeah yeah in tell yeah She pulls out as a last resort like because she's going for the low blow on this one. She's like, oh, well, do you still have that thing you keep tucked underneath your bra strap?
Speaker: And Amy like freezes and goes like... I fed it to Dot this morning. Which one convenient. Two. Then Victoria's like, I don't know why, but I believe her. But I believe her. I hate that I believe her. I'm like, why do you believe her? what What's going on? Really? Really? Really, I'll allow this one point. It's not a point for Amy, but this is not a point for Victoria. Victoria gets a negative point here. yeah for like you You spent so much time convincing her, i will kill you if I see you again. You need to go to therapy. I don't care if it's the end of the world. Go to therapy.
Speaker: And then she does. yeah yeah And then all of a sudden you're like, don't you understand? It's the end of the world. You can't be in therapy. yeah like Victoria, Victoria, Amy for once is actively choosing yeah to not go with you to do the thing and instead is choosing to go to therapy that you told her to go to which just with the patch specifically it's the perfect example of what could have been a great show not tell moment where it's like if she's like well what about the thing you keep under your bra strap what if no words you just see the scene Amy freezes but then turns opens her shirt shows it's gone
Speaker: and then turns back around. like That would be such a great like definitive moment of like, I'm doing better, Victoria. Leave me alone. um and Just hands over to this pens up pans over to Yeah, yeah. that's chewing on it's got of guess Dot's like...
Speaker: yeah oh oh yeah yeah want a moment where you're like who who at my hot dog and you look over the cats just
Speaker: Another.w. As Fran said, another.w. Exactly. All I'm imagining now is it's the the scene in The Emperor's New Groove, you know, where he sees the fly that gets caught in the web and it just goes, help me, help me! And then the spider eats it. but it's It's like Victoria's little patch of skin. Charlotte!
Speaker: Charlotte! yeah horrible okay here's the here's here i yeah can't i can't stand it i can't say i okay we talked about character development i feel the like victoria hey God, I feel like Victoria has had this character development change where she's gotten like more trusting of Amy. She's like more in tune with ah her, her fragile one. and I don't trust any of it. I don't trust any of it. And I don't feel like it's safe. I don't feel like this is Victoria. This feels like she's being manipulated. Yeah. the and anytime And then anytime, my God. And then anytime Samantha brings up, ah should we, are we master stranger protocols and in effect? I'm like, yes, yes. Victoria has not been acting herself for arcs now. And I don't know what to tell you other than i don't trust anything she's done. I don't trust anything she's doing. I don't trust anything she says anymore. And I haven't.
Speaker: We're darks now. And then she does shit like this. And I'm like, how are we trusting her? And she's like warping her her freaking ah freaking shield thing out and in. And she's like, oh, wow.
Speaker: I seem to have like... tapped into something with my power and like, oh my gosh, that's how you work. I'm like, why are we just okay with this? No, like there's no, it's clearly supposed to be like, wow, this is amazing. Victoria's gotten in touch with her like power side. Like, why are we trusting that? Why would we ever trust that? And then she goes and she's like, I want to talk to Amy. And everyone's like, that's a terrible idea. I'm like, for once, let's listen to everyone else because they're all telling you that this is a terrible idea. And she's like, no no no, no, no, Actually, we have a plan. By the way, we're not going to tell the reader the whole fucking arc, but we have a fucking plan and it requires Amy for some goddamn reason. We do not need to be talking to Amy. Fuck Amy. cut out at the end. peaked But we get it.
Speaker: your rate Your rage caused you to clip. I'm sweating right now. I am on i so done. with i don't try i can't I don't understand. And I'm sure...
Speaker: I'm sure going to understand in the next arc. I'm sure that I'm not going to understand, but I'm sure chat's going to explain it to me next time we meet of this is why we would have needed Amy for this one plan. And I have this terrible, awful, horrible feeling that Amy is either a just not going to show up and we're never going to see her for the rest of the story because she's off in therapy.
Speaker: Or she's going to show up and she's going to be the deus ex machina bullshit that fixes the planet. And I don't want that either. I think I'd rather the world end. Can Amy be the hero in the end?
Speaker: I think I would rather have the world end. Fuck that shit. And I don't. Oh, my God. I have to stop. Someone cut me off. i Why are we doing this?
Speaker: Explain it it makes sense. Why are we doing this? Yeah. I agree. no i mean it's you Jacob, back me up! You hate Amy as much as I do! I do. it's it's i don't I don't get it.
Speaker: And I think as i was reading that, I was like, okay, well, let me just get to the next arc, and I'll just sort of ignore this for right now and see when it starts to make sense. But, yeah, like, what the hell? We clearly have a plan. We just have not told know anybody what it is. Fuck us, I guess.
Speaker: No, I mean, there's the moment... Like, fuck you guys, because you're you no one likes my story. Everyone's being critical. Well, I'm not going to tell you how it ends. And then, like, he's going to drop the ending on us. Yeah. I don't We'll see. I'm i'm i'm curious. it's It's funny, because obviously we'll get to the interludes, and we get the Simberg's plan, and we get the other plans. Like, they better have a pretty damn good plan, because it looks like...
Speaker: it suck Yeah, not going to go too great, but we'll see. but yeah, I don't, ah unless her plan and involves like tightening Amy, which maybe it does. ah Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't see the the reason for her inclusion for this conversation to happen now.
Speaker: um Again, I did, I did really like the little conversation, but it was a good conversation. I just, yeah. I agree. I don't know. Where are we headed?
Speaker: Where did we come from? Where did we go? yeah Well. ah We would next be to the end. 19G and 19Z after. All right. yep Yeah.
Speaker: Onwards. Let's do it. Okay. interlude grew. Kenzie wakes up and Brian tries to comfort her. They talk about romance, death, heaven, and self-care.
Speaker: Kenzie makes up with a Darlene and bows out of the final fight. The team tries to find Bonesaw in lieu of Amy. All right, back on the positive grind because...
Speaker: Thank you. Gotta love our our boy, Gru, for his interlude. I mean, i think probably the last the last... Z is my favorite arc of this or chapter of this little second sha section, but Gru is right behind it. This was a good a good chapter.
Speaker: I really liked getting his perspective of things. I loved the big brother element of him re-emerging, this time with Kenzie. Like it just felt right to see him in that role. And ah yeah, that was, it was just some, some great moments.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Just a great. Yeah. yeah This is a great, great character moment. um I don't know
Speaker: know. Do you think grew and look at his plan for quite some time? I don't know. I really don't know. it works out very conveniently that like his powers can basically black out all of her powers.
Speaker: So she's forced into isolation. um And he is such a good person for her to talk to. So, you know, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: It is definitely to have him back. God, that feels real good. And to get a little bit of his but perspective, because he's talking about Skitter, because we can't not talk about Skitter. And then with Kozin as well, and just kind of like the difference between the two. And like it's it's hard to remember that like he was with Kozin way longer than he was ever with Taylor.
Speaker: Which, like, shit, fuck, I forgot about that. You know, like, Jesus. Okay, that makes sense, I guess. Because he says, he talks about it. He's like, yeah, Taylor Weeks goes years or months. Yeah. Years, I think.
Speaker: Months, maybe. Was it a year? ago like I think they're the entire time skip. ah so I was trying to remember yeah if it was. but Maybe. Yeah, yeah. Wild. But it just, yeah, i think i like I think that too, like even because we're never, ever, ever going to move on from Worm ever.
Speaker: ah And I just felt like a little bit of closure, and I kind of really enjoyed that. And then, like, she and him connecting in that way. Because, like, she knows about Taylor, but probably more in the sense of Taylor's relation to Aiden than anything else.
Speaker: And being like, well, you, like, you dated Taylor, Like, I know you did. And I know, like, you're part of the Undeciders and you have this connection with Taylor and Aiden has this connection with Taylor. And, like, I don't know. I i just, i really enjoyed that. And, oh gosh. Oh, she says something here. I wanted to bring this up earlier, but I didn't want to bring it up ahead of ahead of the chapter. But...
Speaker: um she she says something, oh God, what does she say? It's something basically about like, everyone has bad moments except like my bad moments are like the worst they could possibly be. And thinking about that in the sense of like, we've all been in fights where we've said something that we immediately regret or later are like, shit, I never should have said that. That was like a a low blow or like, that was really hurtful and mean.
Speaker: and like, her having that moment of being like, I'm gonna blackmail you. like okay, that's pretty bad in a conversation to just be like, you know, as opposed to being like, I don't know, saying something like, I don't even know, but like, that's pretty bad. It's pretty damn bad yeah to to put bring that up as your, as your, you know, final statement in an argument is not great. And it's like,
Speaker: It's unfortunate because like even in your worst moment, like you're not going to threaten blackmail on somebody probably if you're normal, I guess. But like she will because that's been what's worked. And she even says that like the happiest she's ever been was when she was blackmailing her parents because it felt normal. Like it was some...
Speaker: semblance of normality that she could cause I think lookout is constantly like pretending like she's constantly monitoring herself and holding herself back and pretending to be happy. She's smiling all the time, you know, laughing and it's clearly this facade, but like she's acting all the time anyways, but if she's blackmailing somebody, then they're acting too. And she can at least pretend that everything's okay.
Speaker: And that sucks. Yeah.
Speaker: Great
Speaker: great moments. Really great moments. i I think this is probably my favorite chapter of the arc.
Speaker: And then at the end they go, and well, we can't have Amy, so Bonesaw. Honestly, I don't know why we haven't been hitting up Bonesaw before. i agree yeah Maybe Bonesaw just needed a break, you know.
Speaker: yeah Well, sure. A little hiatus. But now we need her back, please. yeah She's got a little garden thing going on. and She's got all the woodland creatures shoved into boxes.
Speaker: She's growing some bodies. You know, just having a good old day. Yeah. Exactly. Love that. Yeah.
Speaker: Yep. As Fran said, so things are going great for Team Breakthrough. More like break up at this point. yeah Oh my god, really though? Geez Louise. Oh, I forgot to mention this.
Speaker: I think Lookout being Peep As part of the chicken tenders. Oh, yeah. It's the funniest shit. That is good. Works so much better.
Speaker: love it. It's so good. It's so good. Because the chicken tenders, they're here to stay. Like, that's not going to change now. Like, they're the chicken tenders. Like, it's so funny. It's so good. I love it. I'm here for it. And then Peep.
Speaker: Peep is so perfect. i'm a I'm such a fan. I'm such a fan. Oh, I love that. Although, I do think... one of you guys said it last time and I liked it better was chicken little and the tenders, which do.
Speaker: Chicken little and the tenders. I do like that. Yeah. Yeah. It's got good band. like couldn under glove exactly Exactly. Exactly. Also, if we, I remember my one note that I wrote for this entire, uh, section was all the way back with moon song, finding uh,
Speaker: from Furcate, I think, that ah Byron is now dating somebody. And she's like, aww, like, okay, you know, what we're adult, you know, we're we're all adult teenagers. We can all, you know, be mature about this.
Speaker: And she was like, and it's Vista. And she's like, fine yeah I was like, damn, it must suck to be a side character knowing that your ex is dating and like a main character. Main character, damn. Wow.
Speaker: bita she was like oh I was hoping it'd be like some some other random bitch not and I love I get the feeling of like like Moonsong's like oh that's such an upgrade from me oh my god I mean she knows it she's like yeah but that's why it's like it's funny like you just imagine Like, you know, when somebody is in an okay relationship, but then they end up with somebody who's perfect for them. And you're like, oh, it's such an upgrade. But it's her saying it to herself where she's like, yeah my God, she's perfect. yeah yeah
Speaker: ah Yeah. Oh, my God. Surely she can't cook as well, right? Oh, shit. ah Who did he get? Somebody with powers probably even not that great. You know, they're both shakers, aren't they? So it's like, they're probably not even like that great. a leg you She's probably got like what? Like level two shaker powers. It's Vista. Oh, Exactly.
Speaker: my God. I didn't think about the fact that they're both shakers. That's really funny, too. Yeah. Oh, oh, oh, ouch.
Speaker: Oh, boy. Oh boy.
Speaker: Is it correct that it says Bonesaw left to another dimension after her fight with Jessica? Is that is that a thing? Yes, but people have been visiting her. like We know where she is. can go to her at any time. i was um yeah We've just been dealing amy with Amy for no particular reason.
Speaker: For no fucking reason. Down the road. Really though. And with portals too. It's like someone can call you a Waymo. Exactly. yeah was stupid listen that was good I was about to make like a New York subway joke so it's that's fine. It's good. it's perfect okay I had to call it back just a little bit.
Speaker: his last lastnode Last chapter?
Speaker: I'm trying to think if there's any other things I wanted to say about this one, but I think we said it all earlier about her whole her you know pulling out her tech and giving it all up to Dragon. Literally the only person who could probably handle Kenzie's tech without fucking it up.
Speaker: God.
Speaker: Crazy. Yeah, let's do it. Go for it. All righty. 19.0. Interlude Various.
Speaker: interlude various Dragon and Defiant battle the Titans and prepare a team to deal with the Simurg. Sarah Pelham finds and tries to recruit Bonesaw.
Speaker: The Simurg manipulates events to suit her own needs. And the big thing that stood out to me that the last interlude leaves out is that Chris has been a minion of the Simurg this whole time. Yeah.
Speaker: Not surprised. Yeah. Which is so... Just... ah brand He's the one who's been like, this whole time has been like, she's like so many steps ahead of you guys. Like, you guys don't even know. yeah Like, no, you don't even know, my man. You don't even know, Chris. well My brother and Chris, you're the fucking idiot. You are the idiot, yeah.
Speaker: Oh, man. I mean, you know, he... And that gets He just wanted to go to space. Oh! Uh-oh! All right.
Speaker: I have Chris Hate Whiplash over Amy, Is Moonsong a Good Person argument, and Alan Rance.
Speaker: Nice. There you go. Well done. Well... little sus. The creator gets the first bingo. little sus, that's okay. Yeah, for real. That's happened a couple different times. they A couple times, but, ah you know, ah most of the time I don't call it out.
Speaker: Okay, fair enough, fair enough. Let's not skip over Dragon and Defiant still being the best couple, obviously. um oh absolutely Power couple. I love that they talk in a binary code that Defiant gave for them.
Speaker: Amazing. Like a short, just a few bits per message. A little bit of code. Amazing. wrote them a language. What a nerd. Also, Fran, i don't I also don't think that he was a Simurg simp the whole time as well, but I do agree that Chris probably... like i think that Chris has been, by nature of the Simurg, guided this whole time, and only at some point recently has ah realized that
Speaker: um you know, the Simurgh is afoot and doing things and wants to like basically be right about things by saying like, oh, well, the Simurgh's planned. She's so very far ahead of us.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: In Yes, Treaty, there was a bingo for tonight. It's always in the caption, isn't it? It's in there. Link in description. the only night that we haven't had it was last week and that's because there was nothing to bingo about. I'll put it in the chat as well just so you can get to it faster but it should be in the thing.
Speaker: There you go. yeah um Anyways. yeah um Do we also really quick want to ah just finish the thought about that Fran was saying with bone saws not being accessible for a while? Is that a thing?
Speaker: I don't know if that was a thing. I'm pretty sure they just like, when we say accessible, i don't think this is like it was hidden off the beaten path and only accessible from the underground of the warden fortress, much like we were doing from, for the prisoners.
Speaker: Like, I feel like this is just like, yeah, we put her, so like she wanted to go somewhere uh, He just didn't bother her, ah you know, except for occasionally. That was kind of the vibe I got. It wasn't like yeah she was literally inaccessible. it was more yeah She was more emotionally inaccessible instead of literally inaccessible. With holding. It's like she's not bothering anybody, you know.
Speaker: She's staying in her lane, hydrated, living her best life. Yep. Exactly. Gardening. And making making ah little clones of herself in case people try to talk to her.
Speaker: Yep. Who can like blow up and stuff.
Speaker: Which I mean not. That's pretty cool. want talk about superpowers I wish I could have. Fran says only Valkyrie was going to her using or power. ah well Either way, moving on. yeah i mean Yeah, I mean, I think Valkyrie, for whatever reason, Valkyrie was the only one that Bonesaw wanted to see. Yeah.
Speaker: You know, I mean, if nothing else, it seems like she retreated maybe out of shame for getting bodied by a normal regular therapist. Damn. You know.
Speaker: like that That's gotta take an emotional day. you know What a beta. You
Speaker: yeah know what mean? Yeah. All I can think is like that she was trying not to murder Jessica. And so like she was just concentrating super hard on not having all the auto defenses in her body. Like,
Speaker: turn her arms into buzz saws and start going to town she just turns into buzz saws and strangle her and she's like I know that she can't strangle me with my super reinforced windpipe and shit but my body knows that it's being attacked and is preparing to unleash all hell that's so true Alan I never thought of that that's so true Oh my god. Oh, you're trying to kill me? Cute. It's like, you but I'll let you win, but that's only because the only other option is I'll kill you, actually.
Speaker: Only because you caught me by some surprise this one time. Goddamn.
Speaker: You can't physically hurt me, Jessica, but the emotional damage you've done is irreparable. I can really do think that that's what's going on. It's like, Bonesaw literally just hurt and in her feelings. Okay, well...
Speaker: I'll leave if you're going to treat me. I'll go. I'll just go. go I expected better from a therapist. Yeah, that's funny. Wow.
Speaker: I expected this treatment from a cop, not my therapist.
Speaker: Exactly. Oh, gosh. Oh, I love that the simmer curb stomps the person who would have gone. with oh That whole sequence was really cool. Getting into the simmering manipulation. oh that is I loved being in her head for just a second. That was so cool. was You couldn't write a whole big thing from her perspective, obviously, because it would be too difficult, I think. but yeah yeah Man, what a cool like glimpse of just like, that person shouldn't go to Bonesaw smash.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, um you know. Yeah. So good. piece Yeah. Which is why, again, if you're like, we've got a secret plan that's our that could work. And then you read this interlude and you're like, will it? it I don't think so.
Speaker: It just it for a only further cemented my Simurgh tattoo idea. I'm so excited. I can't wait.
Speaker: I'll hold on. Imagine your dying moments is the Simurgh stepping on you. Oh, a mommy. Please. Yes. Oh my God. I was waiting for you you to make that joke.
Speaker: but but Wow, what a way to do want to see your design, though, Hannah, whatever you decide to do. Just a flip with air wings.
Speaker: it's just i have I have thought about it. it's it's going to be very um It's not going to be the Simmer, but it's going to have it's going to be the imagery with all the wings. and and i'm It's going to be have a couple things put all together. I'm very excited about it, actually.
Speaker: Cool. But I'll show you guys what to speak once we get the the tattoo ball rolling, if you will. i saw Very nice.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, being in her head was cool super cool. don't know what they're going to do. Got to find out.
Speaker: Yeah. I just... I'm trying...
Speaker: I'm trying really hard to like be excited about this ending.
Speaker: I don't know if I am. it's It's the same, you know, comics have this problem too, which is unsurprising. We're seeing it in ah in a similar genre, but it's like, you know, it's the whole comic problem of your hero has bested this enemy.
Speaker: So now their next villain has to be stronger. And, yeah you know, you don't have to do that. Obviously, there's a lot of great comics that... that they fight all sorts of different types of enemies, but you just, you run into that issue enough.
Speaker: And like, this feels very similar where, you know, the first few fights that we had in Ward, assuming Wild Boe didn't have the entire thing outlined out, which I'm assuming he probably didn't.
Speaker: um You know, we had like the Fallen, which is a very different type of enemy. We had Goddess, which was, she was powerful in her own right, but was was still different enough. You know, you had, we he kind of got us through those,
Speaker: okay, well, this isn't going to be like more warm worm. It'll be a little different. But then once you're through all that and you're trying to wrap up the story with this big climax, you kind of fall into old habits and it's got to be more threatening than Scion was, which, you know, how do you do that? So yeah you just kind of hit that, you hit that unfortunate struggle where then yeah you're just like, you know, here we are.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: J-Man posted the chat in my mind Hannah is waiting to get the tattoo because she hopes the Simurg isn't in the Epstein files or something. mean, lay at this point, that's exactly what it is. i'm I'm not getting this tattoo until i have completed all of Ward. Did you read Fran?
Speaker: and trans you read frame I was on, um Fran and I were on the same page, just making sure that, you know, the Simurg doesn't say much of slurs in the epilogue. yeah bunch just Yep. Exactly.
Speaker: Goddamn. Goddamn. Oh, man. Basically, is what that's basically what's happening. i'm I'm holding off until I know for sure.
Speaker: Love it.
Speaker: uh, Bernard, Jake, uh, said Jacob in the start of war. I remember the struggle that you, your group said everything is too little fish. Um,
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. that's that's That's the struggle, right? That's the problem with the the genre is like people want the big fights. Everyone wants the big action piece.
Speaker: But the problem is you do that too much or you give them too big a threat. I mean, to bring a kind of you know meta with like the MCU right now, they're teasing... yeah doomsday right as has to be a bigger threat than thanos was with the infinity gauntlet that destroyed half the universe like you you can't and you can't just keep wrapping ramping it up but yeah it's true right like audiences want the bigger fight they want the you know the bigger threat more action so like it's a it's a it's a flaw of the genre honestly we just want a satisfying conclusion
Speaker: I just want to feel like I don't... What I want is I don't want to get to the end of Ward and be like, well, that ending ruined all the things that I did like about Ward.
Speaker: like I don't want that. brendan That's my big fear. That's worst case scenario, yeah, for sure. Do you guys know... Have we talked about this? Maybe we did. Do you guys know Little House on the Prairie ended? The book's first show or the new show? The TV The original TV show, I believe.
Speaker: Okay. but and Are we counting the Christmas special? No. I think it's the original TV show. See, I'm going to look it up before I get it wrong. Give me one second. There's a lot. So I didn't grow up with the TV show. I grew up with the books and read them a million times. My mother hated the show because it was not book accurate, which the books aren't life accurate. So, you know, there's that. But like I, as an adult, started watching the show and, um...
Speaker: Just what a time. I enjoyed it. What a time. there's a new There's a new show on Netflix, too. There is. Yeah, there's a new one. I would like to I heard really good things about the costume department.
Speaker: I'm sure it's probably good. Yeah, it was the original original television series, which ended in the 1984 made-for-TV movie special, The Last Farewell. And they ended by greedy land developer claims ownership of the Grove, and the defiant townspeople chose to choose to blow up their homes and businesses with dynamite rather than surrender.
Speaker: And they literally blew up the sets, and that's how the show ends. It's them just... Oh my God. Blowing everything up. Sometimes I read stories and I'm like, wow, we just got a little prairie this, you know, just, just, I don but don't know how to end. That's my theory. That's my theory. That's the next devil man crybaby ending. everything because world know the end well How did we miss that amongst, you know, jumping the shark from happy days?
Speaker: We could have had little house on the prairie. either know i just got to blowing up the set you're blowing up the ending just gotta blow up the set yeah that is really funny that is wild what a choice holy mackerel yeah talk about not knowing how to wrap up your story yeah whoa yeah really that's great okay good gravy oh my god but yeah okay
Speaker: my God. Oh, yeah. I stopped watching the show. um i don't know what season. It was when it was when Almanzo started showing up. Almanzo. Yeah. Almanzo started showing up and they were making it really freaking weird. And I was like, ah a I don't like like it. I can't do it Too different to the books. I got to stop.
Speaker: Fair. All right. Time to... To answer last questions from Bernard. ah Who do you think would win? Simurg or Titan Fortuna?
Speaker: I mean, from what we've seen, Simurg is stronger, but we really haven't seen Titan Fortuna really do her thing yet, so... Hard to say exactly. it It also feels like maybe Titan Fortuna is trying to communicate with them.
Speaker: Maybe. Yeah. Ish. Sort of. Also, the Titans have been shown to be like destructible. Like it takes a lot of effort, but they can be hurt, you know?
Speaker: Yeah. And bringers, uh, never really got hurt ah's outside of Scion. Just saying.
Speaker: Hey guys, live stream just ended. So sorry that it broke at the end. Not sure what happened there, but what you missed is we'll be covering ARC 20.1 through 20.8 in three weeks on August 31st.
Speaker: We'll also be doing some more Patreon content, so we'll see you soon. Thanks so much.
Speaker: Bye.
