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Permaculture on the Spectrum with Anna Matilda
464 Plays2 days ago
Me ranting about Couple Power and the Urban Nanna being brilliant. May all the single, neurospicy permies find ample inspiration in today’s interview with Anna Matilda! Teacher of traditional skills, crafts and non-judgey sustainability. Anna is a breath of fresh air in the stale bedchamber of the status quo, sharing openly about how she does permaculture solo, in the city, in a rental property, with limited energy and Captain Anxiety occasionally taking the wheel.
Mistakes as teachers
Out ya come, Captain Anxiety
Feeling out of step with the whole world
The stress and physical fallout of masking
Personal energy that can be budgeted
The Fuck It Wave
FYI: You don’t need a compost toilet or a goat
Guide Beside learning (Nanna education)
Is permaculture uniquely attractive to people on the spectrum?
For the single women renters!
Spoon Theory
Building community with a capital C
Giving and receiving
Banking energy and goodwill in people, in community
Community as forest
Skills as security
Mudhuts Theory
Revelling in knowing nothing
Can we change?
Swedish wisdom ~ lagom & mysig
Japanese wisdom ~ kintsugi & shishiko embroidery
🧙♀️ LINKY POOS
Anna’s new book is out now! Everyday Permaculture ~ Anna Matilda
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Riskiliants and Recent Journeys
00:00:03
Speaker
race scallia
00:00:06
Speaker
Hey, this is Katie and you're tuned into Riskiliants, a podcast about the hard, soft and surprising skills that'll help us stay afloat if our modern systems don't.
00:00:18
Speaker
We just got home from a trip to New South Wales where Jordan was filming at Limestone Permaculture. You might remember the enigmatic Brett Cooper from episode 29. And it was easier than ever for us to hit the road because George has just finished converting a van.
00:00:34
Speaker
He turned a Ford Transit into a little cottage on wheels. It even has a bookshelf and tiles in the kitchen.
The Power of Partnerships and Teamwork
00:00:41
Speaker
And I've been thinking about the luck of that, not just being born in a peaceful country,
00:00:46
Speaker
where state boarders have signs saying welcome rather than show us your papers, but also how lucky it is to be in a partnership. Without George, I'd never be lording it up in a handmade van, which has been his project for over a year, and yet he refers to it as our van, ours, like I did more than just help paint a wall one time.
00:01:09
Speaker
When you shack up with someone, you pour your assets and energies and complementary skills into a shared pot, that bubbles with potential. It's exponential the benefits of being in a two or more person team, especially when you're trying to do stuff from scratch that takes a bit of hard yakka.
00:01:27
Speaker
I remember when i was a single lass on the land and thinking, man oh man, is this inefficient. After chopping the wood, lighting the fire, milking the goats, planting the seeds, weeding the beds, earning the coins, and cleaning up after myself, there'd still be a basket of cucumbers looking at me from the benchtop, like, don't let me rot, bitch, and that would be my evening.
00:01:49
Speaker
Couple power is real. I'm not saying it's better or necessary or even desirable for many folks, but it is real. Teamwork makes the dream work if that dream involves goats or pickling cucumbers.
00:02:02
Speaker
Having someone to share the ups and downs and existential sinkholes with to be your emotional anchor is another profound and pretty rarely talked about benefit of togetherness.
00:02:14
Speaker
So I suppose I get kind of sad and cynical when I see representations of the good life, whether that's a cute farm or a quintessential homestead or people frolicking around the countryside in a bespoke van like us, that secretly rely on a second income.
Meet Anna Matilda: The Urban Nana
00:02:32
Speaker
a second energy, or at least a second pair of hands to do the dishes at the end of a freaking long day. It makes the biggest difference. So I just wanted to say to all the single permies out there who are pursuing your values and pickling cucumbers off your own steam power to you.
00:02:51
Speaker
And i really hope you find ample comfort and inspiration in today's interview with Anna Matilda, who you probably know as the Urban Nana, a teacher of traditional skills, crafts and non-judgy sustainability.
00:03:05
Speaker
Anna is a breath of fresh air in the stale bedchamber of the status quo, sharing openly about how she does permaculture solo, in the city, in a rental property with limited energy and with a neuro-spicy brain.
00:03:18
Speaker
I have the greatest respect for people like Anna who use their platforms to affirm and uplift rather than idealise. It is such a relief. Anna has just released a beautiful book called Everyday Permaculture, which is a godsend for renters and urban foragers and families alike, filled with Swedish practicality, dreamy photography and illustrations by Brenna Quinlan.
00:03:40
Speaker
Highly recommended. We did this recording in the attic of Anna's friend's home in the Dandenongs, east of Melbourne, surrounded by the hush of mountain ash, tree ferns and mosses, which hopefully makes up for all the times we bump the mic in our enthusiasm.
00:03:56
Speaker
And before we get stuck in, my gratitude goes out to everyone on Patreon who communally support Ruskillians, no questions asked, allowing this podcast to think and speak and learn and grow and experiment and dream freely We're at patreon.com forward slash reskilliance.
00:04:16
Speaker
I'm also feeling a lot of appreciation for everyone who sends me emails. There've been quite a few of you lately with great guest suggestions, reflections on life and positive feedback that honestly keeps me going.
00:04:29
Speaker
Big thanks to my recent correspondents, Harry, Emmy, Adrian and Emily. And I also have an announcement thing at the end of the episode if you feel like sticking around.
Anna Matilda's Journey and Insights
00:04:40
Speaker
Here's Anna Matilda, the urban nana, talking us through permaculture on the spectrum amongst a host of other colourful topics. and Enjoy.
00:04:52
Speaker
Um, I hate the coach. I like doing that sometimes, you know, just to just get things going. Yeah, starting's really hard, hey? Like, starting things in general.
00:05:04
Speaker
getting myself over the line like I want to learn how to carve spoons and I've been thinking of you because I'm so I'm so comfortable in like thinky land and then practical hands tactile making land is actually quite foreign to me so is it like because you're worried about getting it wrong or making a mistake or I actually can't compute lots of steps and Like when there's something that I want to do that involves a lot of steps and sourcing different tools and materials, I just become completely overwhelmed. I'm like, I'm going draw a picture or read a book. Okay.
00:05:38
Speaker
So would you ever draw a picture of what it is you want to that has lots of steps to it? I've done that before. And man, it's like scarily powerful. Then somehow like I can and do those things.
00:05:49
Speaker
It's almost like making a comic book and then showing what you're going to, like it' that whole envisaging what do you want to do and where you're going to end up. Maybe I should try that. Manifestation kind of stuff. A little bit. Look, I did some, um you know, what I would like to happen. This was like in 2020 during COVID towards the end of that year where it was really starting to hit home of the world's a bit shaky. We don't really have anything normal anymore.
00:06:14
Speaker
And I was like, okay, I've tried a few things this year and they've worked pretty well for the Urban Nana and they've worked okay for me. What would I like out of this? You know, in case I have to become self-employed sooner rather than later, what do I want to get out of it?
00:06:27
Speaker
Because if I don't know that, I won't know what to reach for. And so it was just literally the back of a piece of paper and some green textures. I just chose a few different colours and just wrote down what I want to happen in the middle and then wrote all these things. And There were like 20 of them and now, except for owning where I live, every single one of them has happened and I'm just like, oh my god, I wrote them down like going, oh, yeah this will never happen. ah But it has and I don't know whether it's, I've just given it a voice to say, I think this could be a possibility.
00:07:05
Speaker
which then when I read it back, it's like someone having faith in me. But was actually myself that had faith in me, which you can't do just voices in your head, I think, because it gets too noisy. But yeah, steps and stuff. So spoon carving. my I started carving wood with a crappy blunt opinel knife, my everything knife, when I was at camping once. And I was like, I'm going to carve a thing. And of course, I chose the hardest thing to carve, which was a eucalyptus that was aged and hard as nails but I still did it and I'm like wow I've discovered so many things about how I wouldn't do it next time and that then guided me to
00:07:43
Speaker
what tools I might like to use. I'm like, oh yeah, that bit was really hard doing the middle bit. Maybe I do need a curved blade. And yeah, so rather than going, I'm going to produce this, I would just started playing.
00:07:54
Speaker
And I think, yeah, there's a whole lot of stuff around the, what comes out of play. Like there's so much learning that comes out of play. What is it about that those first few times that you try ah new thing that you have to work out the kinks and fail kind of necessarily and deliberately? Was it school that kind of terrified, that put the terror in me about that?
00:08:20
Speaker
those first phases where you're going to have to come up against your inner and ever-present amateur or is it like just a personal fear or something that i have i don't know look i reckon school has a lot to do with it and um i've been talking about this with some friends recently that The school system, as we know, is deeply flawed when it comes to you know individualism and particularly for learning difficulties and neuro spiciness.
00:08:45
Speaker
It's because it's a systemic thing. Like you at school, having been a school teacher, I know that there is so little room and time to allow every student to come to a learning in the way that suits them best because I have deliverables.
00:09:00
Speaker
in terms of reporting on those children's progress, which I have to show, you know, departments of education to prove that I'm actually doing my job so I don't lose my job. So there's all these different layers added on top of what students actually get to achieve.
00:09:15
Speaker
And I reckon that could be a big part of it, like you didn't get to explore stuff. Yeah, so not being able to explore things as a student, that's like a 12 to 13 year period of time when you are you know formative educational years and you're not actually getting to practice that art of playing and making mistakes.
Managing Anxiety and Energy
00:09:34
Speaker
yeah creative claustrophobia.
00:09:36
Speaker
And, you know, I've always said to kids that I nanny for and any kids that I care for, I'm just like... mistakes are the way we learn because you know there are so many different possible ways to do pretty much anything in this world yeah that you can't tell anyone this is exactly the right way to do it because it's going to be slightly different at the you know and not during the process for other people but what you can do yourself is make a you know do something and go no that has not worked for me i i will not do that next time I'll do it differently. So I think that learning through just amassing loads of mistakes, you know, in inverted commas along the way is going to give you such a rich learning at the end.
00:10:19
Speaker
Because not only does it allow you to achieve what you want to achieve, it also gives you a framework for a time in the future where things might not work out the same way. and then you've got like little avenues that you could go off because you've tried them and you know how they didn't work but oh they could work in this situation i guess so fascinating putting those in the bank as well it's not even throwing them out no they're all part of that yeah evidence base you're on this road towards you know achieving a learning but there are lots of little cul-de-sacs and there are lots of roads that you've looked down and gone oh i'm not going to head down there today but
00:10:54
Speaker
in the future you might backtrack and then head down one of those pathways which i love your analogies are just superb i just think you're so great at communicating concepts in an unexpected and delightful way like we've already had captain anxiety in the room oh he's ever present he might join us at some point he's already very much in the room right now very watched Please, yeah, Captain Anxiety, if whatever he needs to do to just, like, chill out a little bit. because fine. I think just even acknowledging that he's in the room with us um is enough to then calm me down in lots of situations. Like, whenever I go and do a talk and I haven't done a talk in front of these types of people before or this size of an audience, I'm like, yeah, hi, so I'm autistic and I have social anxiety. So I'm likely to get ah quite flushed at certain times.
00:11:42
Speaker
Captain Anxiety generally... chooses a word that he likes saying and then he'll say it again and again and it becomes a catch cry for, ah you know, that talk. So if you notice me saying a word again, just keep count. The most we got in an hour presentation was 17 times. So just, you know... got that And then all the audience tends to laugh and then they're on my side and suddenly the captain doesn't need to be there anymore.
00:12:05
Speaker
Like it's it's kind of outing him so that he doesn't feel a need to present as much. Like, its yeah, it's a really cool, powerful tool that i've been using. I think it's so fabulous. Can you just give us a little bit of an imaginative visual on Captain Anxiety so we can all get a sense of like who you're dealing with here? Yeah, so the captain is ah he is a retired naval captain.
00:12:28
Speaker
He used to you know captain ah an enormous frigate and it was very successful and you know lots of trade routes and he did great work. ah you know, he was very, he was wealthy, all this sort of stuff. And then, as happened so often, all that largesse went to his head and he yeah just kind of, you know, started living a bit large and then he used up many of his resources. And then he got a bit older and he wasn't quite making the best decisions all the time with new technology that came along.
00:12:56
Speaker
And then younger captains turned up and then they were slightly doing a better job. And so he then just started drinking and he now is just kind of drunk all the time and not making clear decisions but he also kind of gets in the way a little bit and he fumbles around and he says oh get the the they they don't like you they they think you're no good and he's just staggering around on the deck and it all comes from like you know he's had a big life and people don't listen to him anymore so i found real you know love for the captain and tolerance for him and just acceptance i'm like oh Oh buddy, that's a bit rough isn't it? So whenever he does now come out because I've given him a personality, I can maneuver around him a bit more. I'm like okay he's he's arcing up a bit now and that means he's a bit scared of something. So let me work out what it is he's scared of and see if I can reduce that trigger and and then he'll be calmed down and then I'll be able to get on with what I need to do.
00:13:49
Speaker
And so yeah separating it has been really good so it's extremely irreverent and sophisticated the way that you're personifying these parts of yourself to to better work with them and to peacemake with them and to laugh with them but i wonder how you used to relate to your anxious mind however you want to frame it i don't want to put words in your mouth but like where you've come from on that journey because it's quite a revelation to be able to talk about captain anxiety and to to almost like celebrate these quirky characters that live with the inside that live within us all. But like, what would past Anna have done in this situation or in ah in an awkward or uncomfortable situation?
00:14:35
Speaker
Anna in general, all parts of Anna, are very, very good at masking because, you know, growing up undiagnosed, ah neurodiverse, being autistic and now recently realising I'm very likely ADHD as well.
00:14:47
Speaker
um Go all the projects! I felt out of step with the the whole world, basically, and always had this feeling that I was built wrong and I just didn't know how to do all the stuff that, you know, i didn't understand how people knew how to act around each other and they never had people call them weird or whatever.
00:15:07
Speaker
So having all of that sort of be so present in every day, i was conscious that if I wanted to get through life without being bullied or without being made fun of, I had to work out how to act like everyone else And so I developed this mask and this is such a common story for particularly neurodiverse women. um We're very good at observing and then mimicking behaviours that will get us through with the least flack and it's a brilliant survival technique.
00:15:35
Speaker
Past Anna would definitely have just masked really well and been like the best interview giver ever. And then not let anyone know that you're feeling anxious at all. You must hide that because then people might make fun of you or, you know, whatever. And then I would fall into a week-long cycle of migraines and anxiety attacks and, you know, stomach issues, IBS and all that kind of stuff as well as a result of the massive amounts of cortisol and adrenaline that I was utilising to mask.
00:16:05
Speaker
um And it's been this really long journey to understand migraines my body and how it actually processes the hormones that I've relied on to get me through things. I've actually realized that I'm kind of addicted to cortisol now.
00:16:17
Speaker
And when I'm stressed or anxious about big happenings in my life that I have no control over, I find myself gravitating towards a little bit more risk-taking behavior stuff because it gives me that pump of cortisol and i feel alive. But then, yeah, the after effects of that are massive. So I did learn to manage that when I started thinking about my personal energy as something that can be budgeted.
00:16:44
Speaker
And I worked with a friend who has ah had a head financial planning business and she helped me budget my actual finances, which were terrible. And then I started going, huh, well, my energy is a bit like that, too. I can do things that deposit energy in my business.
00:17:00
Speaker
bank account and but then obviously lots of things detract or you know withdraw energy and so I would start looking at how I can predict when I'm going to be short on energy so I'll look at my calendar and I'll say well I've got this public event then that means that for the day before it and the two days after it I must not plan anything that actually requires me to interact with society because there is a really high likelihood that I will then be knocked out with a migraine And then if I let someone else down by not doing anything on that day because I've got a migraine, that will then prompt it to happen again. So it becomes a bit of ah a cycle.
00:17:40
Speaker
And then how do you... Because I'm just thinking, I don't know what the the hormone that is associated with this state would be. you're talking about cortisol and you may have historically used that as a bit of a mechanism to kind of pump yourself up and get through something that wasn't particularly comfortable or easeful for you.
00:17:57
Speaker
And I'm... I'm just hearing like your self-awareness. I'm like, yeah, that like, that's amazing. But I almost am addicted to being the victim of some of these things that keep me like stuck in a, in a state that might not feel like my highest potential, but it's like, yeah, I don't know what my question is, but just the fact that you were able to kind of pull back and really look at, look at your life and strategize. And i'm not saying strategize your way to like a perfect place where everything is fine for Anna now, but just like,
00:18:26
Speaker
create some structure in your life that is going to help even doing that can feel really hard like can't i just stay in my fucked up cycles you know like for all of time well because you know there reaches a certain point where that fucked up cycle is that's comforting exactly because you've done it so often and you know yes so it's going to be bad i'm going to have migraines i'm going be throwing up all day for two days, like whatever.
00:18:51
Speaker
But at least I know that that's going to happen. yeah And so I can kind of prepare for that. But taking responsibility for your life and then what happens if it doesn't work, like even scarier. I'm just like, how did you get past the fear that maybe you could find a different way of being?
00:19:08
Speaker
So a lot of this actually happened during 2020 at the beginning of COVID where I had to stop working because we weren't allowed to go to our work because it was in person We were sitting at home sort of going, I don't know what's going to happen with the world. And, you know, i had a few relationship breakdowns and stuff like that during that period as well. And basically, I just felt like everything was going wrong. And I'm sure that's not and a unique feeling.
00:19:35
Speaker
But then I did my, you know, what I want to happen. And then I started writing what I call the fuck it wave, which is like, look, fuck it. I just, everything's going wrong anyway.
00:19:46
Speaker
And this is probably not going to work, but I'm going to just contact this magazine and say, hey, do you want to publish something that I've written? Fuck it. It won't work anyway. I don't care. And then I did that with all these things and I contacted all these newspapers and magazines and radio and put myself forward for all these things. And then all of them said yes. And I was like, well, fine, then thanks, I guess. All this happened.
00:20:10
Speaker
And I was like, oh, I love the power and and sort of you know strength that I got from... Almost like catastrophizing it and saying, well, it's all going to turn out terrible.
00:20:21
Speaker
So why not do this? Because if that doesn't work out for me, I'm already prepared for bad news. so but that'll work. And what has happened since then is that the number of times that has given a return of something positive happening that I never imagined could happen,
00:20:38
Speaker
has maybe just go, oh, okay, so statistically, statistically most things actually work out all right.
Exploring Permaculture's Interconnectedness
00:20:45
Speaker
And, you know, I'm a nerd, so stats count for something with me. And so I'm like, okay, well, you know, I'll just keep doing that a bit.
00:20:53
Speaker
But it's also allowed me to observe what does work within that sort of media sphere of things. And the truth is that if you present things that are current and desired by um you know the general population if you present that as an idea to someone in media then they're likely to go amazing you've essentially just done part of my job for me i don't have to go and seek that so and look i think a big part of that comes from being scandinavian yeah because we're very much just well do the thing and it'll work or it won't that's fairly binary but also the autism runs strong particularly in the scandies i think so we it it lends itself to pragmatism i think which is kind of cool Yeah.
00:21:34
Speaker
And so what were you pitching to these various media outlets? Like what was your shtick? It's been really deep. yearning inside me for a lot of my life, which is this idea that, you know, everything is connected to everything and there's a way of, you know, stacking functions so that everything benefits everything else.
00:21:54
Speaker
Again, that's very Scandi. You look at Ikea that's built on that kind of ship caravan type living where everything has multiple purposes. And ah just see a whole lot of people I always have seen a whole lot of people in the world who seem really disconnected from the the truth of living in a natural world that we have to respect, otherwise we're going to end up with nothing. And it's sort of, it's becoming more part of common parlance now.
00:22:19
Speaker
I think I have this drive that I want to help other people. not feel so lost because i feel like there's so many different ways that we can stack functions and reconnect communities so they support each other and, you know, redistribute resources so that they're not wasted and they're not lost and they're not unnecessarily manufactured.
00:22:41
Speaker
And, you know, Q finding out about permaculture, I'm like, well, I mean, the ethics of earth care, people care, fair share. I'm like, well, yes, of course, that just makes so much sense.
00:22:52
Speaker
And then almost adopting this, you know, framework to kind of go, oh, okay, cool. That, you know, it's got these ethics. If we make sure everything it sort of goes towards those ethics. And then, look, it's even got a guidebook. It's got 12 principles that you can kind of use to...
00:23:08
Speaker
shape whatever you're going to do next. And for a while, all I was seeing was people who had homesteads and who had, whether it's financial background or it's, you know, energy background or whatever it might be, where they can do that full time. They can step out of the commercialist capitalist society.
00:23:24
Speaker
But for the most of us, that's not possible. Yeah. They've like bought their way out potentially of the mainstream. Sometimes. Or they've already got, you know, a social connections privilege from where they've grown up with wide community then that's really supportive.
00:23:40
Speaker
If you are someone who has grown up in mainstream suburban anywhere, in a rental house, in a three bedroom house, in with the 2.5 kids, with the dog, with the car, like with the job, all those sorts of things, you look at that ideal of living what was sort of traditionally known as a permaculture informed life, which is really homesteady and really eco-warrior type thing. And it just seems out of reach completely.
00:24:07
Speaker
And I just got to a stage where I'm like, look, I'm probably going to rent for my whole life. And that kind of means I can't put stuff into the ground and, you know, growing stuff in the ground. And I don't, I don't want to accept that.
00:24:20
Speaker
I want to grow food. And so I just started putting everything in pots and then they would come with me to the next house. And I've had an apricot tree, which is now I think in the ground somewhere in someone's house in Blackburn, but it lived in eight rentals with me and bears fruit and it's just in a pot.
00:24:36
Speaker
but it's this idea that suburbanites in particular and neurotypical families and just people who sort of tick off all those standard capitalist check marks like that they live that life that we've been told we should seek but they're like but I want to save the planet and and I want the planet to be healthy for my kids but I don't i can't live on a homestead I can't do that so I sort of have this little catch cry which is you don't need a composting toilet and a goat to do permaculture yeah that old phrase of start where you are use what you've got and do what you can that can be absorbed into mainstream life and
00:25:19
Speaker
So that was sort of what I realised was my purpose for wanting to share stuff on media and things. I'm just like, I want to actually go and sit next to people that I care for and say, i know you want to do some gardening and stuff. And that's probably a bit hard in your, you know, block of apartments in St Kilda.
00:25:34
Speaker
What about if we just try putting, you know, some pea shoots in a milk can on the windowsill and... then think that idea of that guide beside learning, um like nanas and nonos used to do at the kitchen table, they would guide you into small, gentle ways of trying a new thing.
00:25:53
Speaker
That's what I feel like the urban nana is all about. I want to teach people the cool stuff that is actually attainable and achievable by them, which... over time helps them build up a sort of permaculture inspired life not just because it's good for them not just because it's good for me but it will just make everyone's life so much richer going forward beautiful Anna and just not to lose track of the neurodiversity current in this conversation because my my hunch is that folks on the spectrum are uniquely attracted to permaculture
00:26:27
Speaker
because it makes so much sense in a way that modern society or the conventional template doesn't. Like, do you think that's fair to say? 100%. That it's kind of like an but like an autistic dream? Yeah, look, I mean, it's it's wonderful from the point of view that it's got some really clear frameworks and rubrics that you can use to kind of judge how you're going and it gives you a point to aim for.
00:26:48
Speaker
But it also, i mean, principle number 10, using and valuing valuing diversity. Oh, gosh, would I have loved that growing up? Absolutely. I would love for everyone to accept that we only exist in a state of diversity. So why the hell wouldn't you celebrate that? And why the hell wouldn't you support that?
00:27:08
Speaker
There are a lot of queer neurodiverse folk who live permaculture inspired lives. And I think that's because the experience of having been othered is such a strong and often negative experience for many, many years for people growing up.
00:27:22
Speaker
that That sense of justice about what is right is so strong and I feel like a lot of neuro spicy and queer folk have this real desire and drive to make it better for the people coming next because they're like look what I would do for young me is all of these things and it's like oh I could do that for someone else and there's sort of this altruistic kind of genuine I want this to be better for you and permaculture when it comes to diversity of of race, of gender, of, you know privilege, all those sorts of things and looking after the planet and making sure there's enough for everyone.
Community Support and Resource Sharing
00:28:02
Speaker
Like it just taps right into that fairness and the justice of ah balance. So yeah, hundred percent. It's a great framework.
00:28:11
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And so I really have always appreciated your spin on permaculture or your like illumination of the parts that we could so easily just try and problem solve. Like, okay, permaculture in a rental is tricky. So let's just aspire to the homestead and start, you know, saving to get there. But you've actually stayed with the trouble of those challenges or opportunities, however you want to frame them. And I want to kind of illuminate them here a little bit more you've rented on your own and headed up your you know a business and work to fund yourself and your passions all whilst having like a limited energy budget yeah I want to talk to you about like some of those challenges that you've you've worked and and tweaked and come to terms with yeah i mean as you say being single being a woman and living alone and renting they are all
00:29:02
Speaker
and working to support myself. They are all so... They're like full-time jobs. I know that sounds a bit naff, but it's like You know, yes, I've wanted to grow the urban nana into this thing that just shares this education as freely as I can, but I know that I need to support myself. So I've had to find some ways to do that that's not just offering education for payment from the broad masses.
00:29:26
Speaker
Doing education talks through councils or libraries and community houses is brilliant because I still get, you know right livelihood, my wage that supports me, but big groups of community then get to actually access that education for free.
00:29:40
Speaker
But yeah, living alone, especially when I'm still masking a fair bit when it comes to social interactions and presentations. And it's interesting because I get a massive buzz out of teaching.
00:29:54
Speaker
And we've spoken about this before, the aha moment, watching someone else have an aha moment. It can be about a topic that I don't care about in the slightest and never will. Like it could be... building motors on motorbikes. I'm like, I'm never going to care about that. But if I watch someone like learning something and it just clicks in their head and you watch the aha moment happening, I'm like, oh, that is delicious. I could wrap that up and just have a little sip every time I'm feeling low. like That's just brilliant.
00:30:22
Speaker
Watching people have aha moments is wonderfully nourishing, but I still do have to mask and play a role when I'm presenting. so finding a balance between that and then having to come home and do the washing so I have clean clothes to enter the presentations and take the bins out. So, you know, I'm composting a lot of sorting the bins and cooking food so I can eat nourished, healthy food and with less packaging and and then also pay the bills. And then also remember to do this. And there's a lot to living a life in ah rental where you have obligations to look after someone else's house to a level where you're not going to get told off.
00:31:00
Speaker
Um, and you know, I've recently been really unfairly kicked out of my house because the landlord essentially wanted to earn more income off it. Um, but I've been there for five and a half years and looked after it really well. And you know, it's always in the back of my mind. Don't get too comfortable where you are because whenever you leave, whatever you've done to the house to make it more permaculture savvy, you're going to have to return it to that.
00:31:26
Speaker
And if I'm on my own, it's like, oh, we'll just pay someone to do that. Or you just take time off. I'm like, but I can't because I need to pay the bills and I need to earn the wage. And anyway, I'm getting very sidetracked, but I feel like. No, that's exactly the struggle that so many people face. And it's not really talked about.
00:31:41
Speaker
No, well, it's just there's so much like changing your goddamn sheets on your own. It's really hard. Especially when you feel tired. I've actually cried once when I've gotten home from, you know, doing an event and gone, oh my God, Pastor Anna took the sheets off because she thought it would be a good drying day, but now the sheets are in the washing machine.
00:31:59
Speaker
And I can't hang them out. And I was like, just can't go to bed because there's no sheets on the bed. And I cried. Like... It's yeah, it seems so silly, but that's like that last straw that broke the camel's back. If you know you've got a sort of a budget of personal energy, we've talked about spoon theory before, which is devised by someone who had chronic illness. And the idea is that we everything we do in our life takes a spoon to do.
00:32:25
Speaker
And people who have chronic illness and often people who have neurodiverse conditions, they have less spoons per day or they've got more things that take up spoons. So they have less to do the fun stuff.
00:32:38
Speaker
And I know that when I have an event on a certain day, I'm like, I can't plan anything else that day because I'm already going to be really low on spoons. And then if I stub my toe, well, forget it. Like I'm out for the rest of the week. You know, it's using up your spoons to do other people's crap um and to you know put up with other people's stuff when you're already trying so hard to make that budget stretch as a renter and a single person that is so hard and especially you know the pay gap that we have between men and women means that if you are a woman who's single and living alone you have to work longer
00:33:18
Speaker
hours which leaves less time for the stuff that nourishes you to pay the same bloody bills ie there's you know there's no packed answer to it but what i will say is that building community with a capital c like it's not just my sport you know my football community or my you know gardening club or whatever it's the broader sense of community of all the people who have similar values and we support each other to get to those values um That kind of support has been integral to my ability to grow the Urban Nana to where it is now. And it's so interesting that that came largely from giving stuff away.
00:33:57
Speaker
ah gained I have gained so much more since I just started giving things. And I know that, again, it sounds a bit naff, but um the community corner that I had at the front of the house was during COVID. And it was because I had 10 kilos of apples that I'd foraged. And I was like,
00:34:13
Speaker
I don't have the energy to manage these. I'm just going to put them out. And then suddenly people were leaving stuff on my doorstep. Like, oh, here's some lemon slice. Thanks for the apples. I'm like, oh, ah that was unexpected. um But yeah, just growing community that knows what my values are and wants to support that has meant that when it does come time to move, there are people who want to help me do that.
00:34:35
Speaker
And they want to take on jobs that will make my life easier because they're like, well, if we make that easy, then you can keep teaching us about these things that we don't have the wherewithal to go and get somewhere else. So we you see value in that balance. Yeah.
00:34:47
Speaker
And learning how to ask for assistance and accept assistance and have people not only depend on you, which is actually quite a powerful position to be in, but depend on other people. That's a whole art in and of itself. Like how, what have you learned about accepting help I think it's interesting because I don't actually see that I ask for help.
00:35:17
Speaker
I don't know, not in the traditional sense of, you know, hey, I need help to do this and then feel beholden to that person. I don't feel that anymore because I started to see...
00:35:30
Speaker
everything that we have and everything that we do as a genuine resource that can be valued. So in the in my book, Everyday Permaculture, the second chapter is all about energy. And I talk about personal energy and spoon theory in there as well.
00:35:46
Speaker
And I think that you know energy can be banked in other people. you know You can bank goodwill in other people. um And then you calling on that in return, it's not really in return. It's just all part of the balance because it's no longer I've given out this energy to someone else and then I deserve this back. It's just I give when I have surplus and when I have a deficit, I can call on the general resources that exist.
00:36:18
Speaker
So it's Yeah, kind of, I think visually in my mind, it is now more like this sort of whole playground full of seesaws that are just independently going up and down. And ah there is ah an overall balance. It would be quite a complicated spreadsheet to to put on paper, but I just feel this confidence now within the gifting community or the gifting economy and the permaculture groups.
00:36:44
Speaker
I have never felt richer than since I started giving stuff away. Because I just have, it's been proven time and time again now that if I have need, someone else has a need to deliver that, like the solution to that to me. I don't know. It just, it feels like it's all organic and it just fits.
00:37:02
Speaker
Yeah. And then talking more specifically about like financial maneuvers that have over time kind of trended in the direction of you being able to do more of the urban manner and more like surface more of those gifts and do less of the necessary and supportive, but maybe not as creatively inspiring work. Like, would you recommend that pathway to to other people who want to kind of carve out their own craft their own job description like you I know worked for many many years in kind of like a stable position to fund this other work that was just growing slowly slowly slowly on the side yeah it's um I think that
00:37:45
Speaker
Nothing can actually grow healthily and sustainably long-term, not necessarily environmentally sustainably, but more energy sustainable, without some kind of support network around it.
00:38:00
Speaker
So community, if you have rich community around you, it doesn't have to be the people who are going to come to your workshop or who are going to help you perma-blitz your garden or whatever when you need to leave a rental.
00:38:14
Speaker
Having community can look like being friends with your neighbour who has the blackest thumb in in history and kills every single plant they've ever seen. But they love to cook.
00:38:28
Speaker
And when you're busy doing these other things, they see that and they'll make you a meal. Or, you know, they might come over and say, hey, I'm going to the shops too. I'm going to grab some things for you. So this diversity of people in your community will actually then build up your capacity to do the things that you need to focus on or that you want to focus on. Does that kind of make sense? Yeah, yeah.
00:38:50
Speaker
Yes, like how intentional do you have to be about, you know, growing and being part of a community that then could, i love this idea, like you're able to grow more in your kind of niche and healthily so, but that relies on this diverse and thriving ecosystem around you Like how intentional do you have to be to feed that community? So I often come up with this, well, I often use the analogy of community is like a good healthy forest.
00:39:18
Speaker
And think actually apply the forest analogy to lots and lots of things like growing plants. People are like, oh my god, this plant's sick and it's dying. What's wrong with it? Well, just think of it as a living, think of it as a baby. Is it tired? Is it hot? Is it hungry? Does it need water? Does it need shelter? is it falling over because it can't walk yet? you know But in the forest, we don't have people looking after plants and trellising them and whatever. So how does everything in a forest find its own balance?
00:39:46
Speaker
And I think it's only because they kind of accept the chaos of, you know, what may or may not happen in the forest. And then they just creatively use and respond to any of the changes that come in as other stuff's growing around them. So building a community for me doesn't look like saying, right, I need someone who one day will level be able to do my shopping for me. I need someone who cooks a mean curry because I'll get hungry. Sometimes I'll need to call on that.
00:40:11
Speaker
It's not... pointed like that. It is very much an opening to, think it's an opening to the value of everyone and just saying when I have the capacity to to invite other people into my sort of sphere of community, I become richer and stronger and have the potential for growth in ways that I can't yet imagine.
00:40:39
Speaker
but as I grow up and as they grow up suddenly we might find that we support each other in in ways that we couldn't have envisaged. So it's not a careful gathering of people who might be useful to me, it is just how can I grow my community forest to be as diverse as possible so that if and when things go a bit pear-shaped and sideways there are options there for me to try.
Foraging and Skill Collection
00:41:03
Speaker
So you have a lot of skills. You're a a complete badass. Like, your car at all times is full of, like, emergency baskets for emergency mushroom harvesting. You can never have too many baskets or jars. And, you know, little daggers that you use judiciously to harvest the things respectfully. Like, can you tell us about some of your most cherished skills and how you've amassed so many and how you're so capable doing that?
00:41:28
Speaker
Let us in on that. It's a very neuro-spicy thing. We do like to collect. And ah the satisfaction that I get from being able to go, ooh, I know an obscure thing that I've learned that could really help this situation.
00:41:45
Speaker
ah So I just gather stuff. I'm like, I like... gathering knowledge and skills because it makes me feel more secure and safe and again coming from that background of you know not feeling like I fit in I feel like now that I know how to do all this broad range of things, yes, I can change a tyre. Yes, I can change the oil in my car if I need to. But um that's because it's like that skill could make me useful to someone else.
00:42:14
Speaker
And then that will make me feel more stable in my social setting. So it kind of came from that positioning of just desperation to seek connection and stability in, you know, emotional regulation.
00:42:25
Speaker
But over time, I'm just like, actually, I just get a kick out of knowing stuff that's useful. It's like having any other collection, like the broader and wider and more. rich it is, the the better you feel.
00:42:37
Speaker
So some of my favourite skills are um preserving food and all the different ways that you can do it and um my mud huts theory applies to that a lot. I'm like, people are like, oh I don't know if this will work and I'm worried about this going wrong and I'm like, mud huts baby.
00:42:53
Speaker
People have been doing this stuff in mud huts for centuries and yes some people died along the way but we now have the information to keep us safe doing this. So just give it a try, see it how it goes You'll learn what works and what doesn't.
00:43:06
Speaker
But yeah, knowing how to jam, chutney, ferment, dehydrate, freeze, all that sort of stuff is satisfying from that point of view. But also because it stacks functions and allows me to save money.
00:43:17
Speaker
It allows me to feel really proficient. and It allows me to reduce food waste and reduce packaging waste as well. So it hits a lot of notes for me. Foraging is one of the other ones that I just love and that again is that whole pattern recognition, seeing things that other people might miss, gets such a kick out of that.
00:43:37
Speaker
And in terms of learning foraging, my mum who's Swedish, she came to Australia when I was about three. or we all did, and ah she would like to do mushroom picking, just looking at the varieties that she grew up knowing about, and blackberry, apples and all that sort of stuff, really safe kind of foods, like fruits. And it just tapped into that whole forest woman vibe that I wanted to have. I wanted to be the lady who lived on the edge of the forest and made all of her own clothes and foraged all the things and saved them and just had this kind of semi-self-sufficient life
00:44:14
Speaker
but you know supported by community. So she didn't rely on what other people thought of her because she could just do most of the things she needed to do. Like I had this lovely vision vision of of being that woman.
00:44:26
Speaker
Yeah, so I think foraging has become a big part of that. And then you know chuck in some science nerdery and then the botanical checklist and bird nerding and all that stuff. yeah Yeah. Well, one of the things that...
00:44:41
Speaker
most impressed me when I came to your mushroom foraging workshop was your commitment to spending time with each specific mushroom, like a long time.
00:44:53
Speaker
And that saying around, you know, there's no what is it? There are old mushroom foragers and there are bold mushroom foragers, but there's not an old, bold mushroom forager. So I'm just, I'm kind of thinking in that context, Anna, around like how careful and respectful you are with these incredible organisms which are at once, you know, so delicious on toast and could, you know, fucking fell you in an instant.
00:45:17
Speaker
How do you do that? I don't want to be that woman on page seven of The Herald Sun. Page one. Yeah. Any opportunity to like... Yeah, I know. Quite the title. You know, foraging teacher falls foul with the fungi. You know, like... I don't... That's embarrassing. Even if I would be dead, I don't want to know about that. um But i yeah I think there's this deep respect for how much the planet could fuck you up if you're not paying attention.
00:45:45
Speaker
And I think there's a little bit of that whole, you know, righteous, well, you know, if you're other things and you put them into this category of someone else is going to sort out my food, then you don't really deserve to know about the free food.
00:45:59
Speaker
i't know it's yeah I the idea that, Everything is edible once.
00:46:07
Speaker
And, you know, you can eat whatever you can do whatever you like. But if you're not prepared to actually put in place learning and, you know, proper deep, deep, deep learning so that you can say without a doubt, this is 100% this mushroom.
00:46:26
Speaker
And I am 100% sure that it has grown safely in an environment that's not got no contamination. And I'm 100% certain that there are no toxic lookalikes anywhere in the world, let alone Australia.
00:46:38
Speaker
If you can't say that, go buy your mushrooms at a shop. Mm-hmm. Or actually, you know what, or don't, but that's on you. Yeah. So what does your process look like when you're learning a new mushroom? My process is to see something that I think is maybe something that I know and then get really excited and then go and look it up and take it home and take the mushroom home and do some spore print tests and do like...
00:47:00
Speaker
put some of it in a plastic bag so the smell can amplify inside the enclosed thing and smell it to see, oh, does it smell like aniseed or is it more of a, you pino kind of smell, a floor cleaner smell? Because that can be one of the defining features between different species.
00:47:15
Speaker
ah And then, you know, then going, okay, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't feel secure in that. Cool. Interesting. I'll go back next week. I'll get another one. And then...
00:47:28
Speaker
I think I like to revel in knowing nothing or just not knowing what it is, like actually going, I don't know, I'm not sure. How exciting. I get to learn something new. So, yeah, I will collect lots of species throughout, you know, an autumn or winter season. And, you know, one of this, one of that. If I don't know what it is, I'll only collect one.
00:47:47
Speaker
rather than take all of it and then go home and find out what it is. We see a lot in foraging groups that people post pictures of a washing basket full of mushrooms that they've picked from somewhere, we don't know where, they say, oh I've picked all of these, are these edible?
00:48:03
Speaker
And I'm like, oh my god, what a waste of a resource that was feeding a whole ecosystem that they pulled it from. um And also, even if it was edible, are you going to eat a washing basket full?
00:48:15
Speaker
Like, I know the drawer is there. It's a really exciting thing to forage for food and and take home a glut. You feel rich, but then you have to process it. So that's the other thing with a lot of the mushrooms that I do pick and I'll get back to my process. But um one of the things I like to bear in mind is, yes, it might take you 10 minutes to fill this basket, but it's going to take you three hours to peel and clean and slice them for using.
00:48:39
Speaker
is that three hours that you have on hand tonight because if you don't those mushrooms are going to degrade enough over the next 24 hours that you might not want to eat them tomorrow so yeah I do a lot of that kind of self-regulation the process is look at a few of them over a season do some spore print tests that kind of thing and then go yeah I think it could be this then the next year go back and see if they turn up again at the same spot so I can notice if they're growing next to a particular tree or in certain conditions.
00:49:12
Speaker
Collect another one, maybe do some more spoil prints just to make sure and then chat to if I have a friend who's an expert forager, um we might have a discussion about it. I would never go to another forager and say, hey, what's this?
00:49:26
Speaker
Because if I'm not prepared to put in the work, why should I, you know, just blithely ask for someone else's expertise for, you know, nothing. But yes, I'll do bit of that. And then the third year, I might feel like, yeah, I'm 100% certain that that is this this mushroom. Let me just make sure that that site is a site that over three years I've seen hasn't been contaminated by exhaust fumes or, you know, run off from an oval or whatever it might be.
00:49:51
Speaker
And then if I feel confident about who that is and that that is a safe mushroom, I might try eating one of them that year.
Philosophical Reflections on Conscientiousness and Permaculture
00:49:59
Speaker
But there is still one species that I've been tracking for about four or five years. And I'm like, yeah, you're a hundred percent who I think you are.
00:50:06
Speaker
I know that it's in a safe location. just still, don't know. I'm just going to sit on that. I'm not sure. I don't want to eat you just yet. I don't know why. And I think that's okay. Like, The other thing I love about doing it that way is that it prolongs the excitement of learning something new.
00:50:22
Speaker
How tantric. I know. But yeah, foraging is a long game. A lot of people struggle with that. I've had many people come to mushroom classes where they're like oh, I thought we were going to go home with a basket of mushrooms. I'm like, no.
00:50:36
Speaker
Like, if you know, I'm not. If you want that, go to a shop and buy those mushrooms that have been sourced and they're like, oh, they're really expensive. i'm like, that's because this whole long process is attached to it. Yeah, I like the idea that it's hard to win the confidence or hard to gather the confidence with foraging. And I think that makes the the foraged food taste even sweeter when you finally do get to taste it.
00:51:00
Speaker
All of this sounds like unfathomably conscientious to my slapdash ears. And I'm perennially curious about people and why we are the way we are and whether we can change just flat out. youre Like, is there hope for someone like me who's just like I don't see myself being that conscientious like I marvel at that but I'm just like a corner cutting kind of person so like in your experience is this just innate is this who you are Anna or is it like I can cultivate this with just a little tweak of my perspective or maybe a different story
00:51:34
Speaker
I think that there's definitely growth that has happened within me. Like there's so many people within the permaculture community that I've learned from. Like I still remember having a conversation with Brenna Quinlan about um riding from Meliodora into Hepburn and I'm thinking about driving. I'm like, holy hell, that's a lot of hills. how are you feeling? Are you tired? she's like, nah, I feel strong. I feel good. I'm like, whoa.
00:51:58
Speaker
What a different take. I've never in my life heard anyone talk about connecting with their body and the physical use of their body in that way. like And now I think like that about certain things. And I don't know, I think exposure to different ways of thinking ah voiced by people that you ah admire and potentially aspire towards. I think that kind of observation and collecting obtaining that yield of knowledge and just difference of thinking um can really help you develop in ways that you might not have thought were possible.
00:52:33
Speaker
um yeah So, yeah, i think I think there's a lot of innateness in the ways we we are, but also there is a lot of background to how all of us think. And usually they will be patterns of thought are almost always there for a reason. They kept us safe.
00:52:48
Speaker
They kept us, you know, successful. or They kept us just, you know, going through life how we want to go through life. And changing those thought patterns is not always safe to do.
00:52:59
Speaker
So you can't expect other people to change the way they think just because you know, or you think you know, it's a ah more beneficial way of thinking. People have to come to that discovery themselves.
00:53:11
Speaker
um So with the book Everyday Permaculture, My desire for that book is not to present any one way of doing it. You can't, there is no one way of doing permaculture. It is by nature diverse and rich.
00:53:24
Speaker
And it is, you know, the framework of permaculture is essentially a really rich compost that you can then grow into your natural self that was designated when you became the seed that you were.
00:53:36
Speaker
And, you know, you're going to become whoever you're going to become. based on the compost that you're in but also based on your genes so I think you can boost people's ability to grow stronger into themselves and more fully into themselves by giving them rich diverse compost as well so just fill yourself with ideas and that's what I want to do with the book is to just show all these different ways and go yeah it's never going to be the same for you as for anyone else but this is the way I did it this is the way someone else did it you could try that
00:54:06
Speaker
And also just try something else. And then if you make a mistake, you'll learn from that. Just give it a shot and then reflect on from there. I've never been very good at those avatar exercises where you envisage, you know, your target audience.
00:54:21
Speaker
um But who did you write the book for? think I wrote the book for
00:54:30
Speaker
families.
00:54:33
Speaker
and people who have been... I don't people who life has been a bit harder for, whether that's because of chronic illness or whether that's because of a neurodiverse brain or learning difficulty or, you know, whatever it might be.
00:54:48
Speaker
i want to provide safe, comfortable, comforting exposure to things that could make life a bit easier.
00:55:00
Speaker
or richer or more sustainable for other people. I want to make sure that anyone who comes to the book feels absolutely free from judgment. And that's where you're going to get learning happen.
00:55:13
Speaker
You know, having been a school teacher, knowing that you have to scaffold learning, but you can't tell people how to do things one way. You have to let them find the right way to do it. And exposure therapy to ideas and and thought patterns is what's going to help them learn the best.
00:55:30
Speaker
I wanted to provide that for, yeah, so particularly youngish families where parents are perhaps struggling to find ways to be more sustainable in the way that they live their life, particularly in suburban areas where the frameworks are all set around capitalism and consumerism and people who have felt like they can't access permaculture or sustainable lifestyles because of, you know, limitations.
00:55:59
Speaker
I want to show how permaculture principles can be absorbed into any life in any sort of situation. Fantastic. And what are some of your favourite parts of the book, whether that was that they were joyful to to create or you think they're the most useful?
00:56:16
Speaker
I love the foraging chapter because it's just so bloody beautiful. And it was originally meant to be a whole book all of its own. It takes up a quarter of this book. And I love the fact that most of that chapter is actually about deep connection and the ethics and sustainability of being a forager.
00:56:34
Speaker
And yeah I love the recipes are really cool because they're very adaptable and stuff like that. And also just looks gorgeous with all the photos. It does. Other than that, the community and um the energy chapters are probably my two other sort of standout favorites because of that transformative thinking.
00:56:55
Speaker
that they encourage people to have. Energy is always something that you can save, you know, source, create and use in different ways, whether that is electricity, gas, water, you know, energy, personal energy.
00:57:11
Speaker
The idea of personal energy being something that you can budget and you can control is transformative or has the potential to be transformative for people. And not many of us think that while we're on the hamster wheel of living ah a capitalist a life within a capitalist system.
00:57:28
Speaker
So and then, yeah, building community, as we've talked about before, is just that's going to make everything so much easier. So I feel like, yeah, they're big. Look, I love them all. The food chapter is i immense and it talks about sourcing food and you know buying it well, storing it well, preserving it, all that kind of stuff, growing food as well. But, you know, there's lots more resources on that than there are on energy and and community. So I'm really happy to get that out there.
Cultural Concepts and Encouraging Sustainable Living
00:57:53
Speaker
You know, and you have international friends and you're like, say this word because it's a novelty. um Do you have any Swedish isms that you could share that are both instructive and practical?
00:58:05
Speaker
just simply beautiful. And I know you do because I've heard you share them before. But what like sweet little pops of Swede can you put into this combo? So, Lagom is one word that it just sits at the root of Swedish culture. And it essentially talks about In one word, it encapsulates all of this, where it is the middle road. Just take the middle road. You know, nothing needs to be excessive.
00:58:29
Speaker
We don't need to have the best meal every time. We don't need to use the best china only for parties. You know, we don't all have to have truffle mayonnaise on our chips. McDonald's.
00:58:40
Speaker
um Like, it's... oh In a time where we have so much excess as well and everyone sees everything on social media and goes, oh, I want to do that viral Dubai chocolate and I need to buy pistachio paste. How do the Swedes see this in culture? Because it seems like it's almost like I'm so steeped and, you know, not that I subscribe to it, but the the great American dream or the great Australian dream, this biggering and bettering and excess that you're speaking about that we're all swimming in is just like, isn't that just how humans...
00:59:11
Speaker
are and how we want to be but then hearing oh there are other cultures there are other collective agreements that people have made about oh the middle way actually it's it's honorable and it's cool to not have all of these kind of luxurious trappings like how does a culture come to that point like it's so wise but it seems so antithetical to like, yeah, Australian culture of the moment.
00:59:38
Speaker
I wonder if there's something to do with the Swedish culture of Largom living, which is, it has come about because of their connection with landscape and weather and, you know just nature in general.
00:59:50
Speaker
They have deep snows where not much grows, but then they also have massive abundance of blueberries and raspberries that you can go and pick in the forest. And, you know, there is this deep understanding that if we all take exactly what we want, not just what we need, then there won't be enough for everyone. And it's, you know, Swedes are very pragmatic and...
01:00:14
Speaker
um You know, they just say, well, that's just, that's just silly. You don't need more than that. are you going to use them? No, just make do. You know, it extends to their flavor palette. So all the meals that they make, you know, it'll be dill and potatoes and sour cream rather than, you know, chili and, ah you know, really high intense flavors. So they very much take this log on living in everything that they do.
01:00:37
Speaker
Similarly though in Japanese culture you have a deep connection to valuing resources. Kintsugi, the sort of repairing items that are broken and mending, sashiko, all that kind of stuff.
01:00:49
Speaker
um That connection with resources as being finite things that we have to find a balance with. I feel like they exist in a lot of these sort of older village-based communities where people had to exist in a small village community in the middle of nature that was actually quite terrifying and they had to make a way to make it work and that happened by doing fairly small, just enough lives.
01:01:15
Speaker
So I love that. And the other sort of word from Swedish that I love is musits. which means cosiness kind of thing. So if you picture a Swedish stew gun, a little red house with a red roof and it's got the lovely ochre-coloured walls and the white-trimmed windows and candles glowing in the windows as you come in out of the snow, it just has this feeling of homecoming.
01:01:36
Speaker
And I think that is tied with the Largom living because, you know, it's like, oh, when we don't have too much of everything, we can actually appreciate what we've got. And I think that could be, i feel like it's the antidote to consumerism is logon living. now We've got enough clothing on the planet already in existence as clothing to clothe the next six generations of humans.
01:02:02
Speaker
It's like we never have to make another piece of clothing and yet we're being churned out. so many pieces every single day. um But that doesn't make us any happier because now we've got not only less money because we spend it on all the clothes but also a whole waste problem to manage.
01:02:17
Speaker
People will do what they need to do to get through their lives and if we can include a few guidance steps through permaculture principles to sort of go, you might want to try something like this at some stage.
01:02:30
Speaker
If people are inspired they will choose small and slow solutions to trial in their life and if it works then they'll build on that and do a bit more in the future so that's kind of my goal is to help people like a nana would go you're all right darl your life's look you've got a lot going on but um you know you you can do this you give it a try and if it doesn't work you try it differently next time that's all right that's kind of my goal that's what i want to do Oh, so gorgeous, yeah. And some of these things you've shared with me in the past, and they honestly, they're like a burr in my sock, not as uncomfortable, but they stay there.
01:03:03
Speaker
They really do, these concepts and these stories that you tell, and they're, yeah, really present in my world. i think that's part of the gifts that you give to people, just these amazing nuggets of wisdom and such ah an effervescent style of communicating them that is really rare.
01:03:21
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Appreciate it. Coming from feeling out of step with people, I want to make it different for other people and just go, yeah, he's here's some ideas.
01:03:33
Speaker
You're your own individual and let's work out how we can incorporate some of these ideas into you. And when can the book be acquired? It is currently on pre-order, but we have...
01:03:47
Speaker
launch date in Australia and New Zealand on April the 1st. and That's real soon. It's March 24. So we have April the 1st in Australia and New Zealand in UK and Ireland. It's the 25th of April and US Canada ah is the 22nd of April. So it launches in the next few weeks, which is very, very exciting. Incredible.
01:04:09
Speaker
And how else can people interact with you? on social media so instagram and facebook looking for the urban nana or just online theurbanana.com yeah and you run a lot of amazing workshops lots of free stuff councils are really great in funding that for their communities specifically around waste management and living lower waste lives which is really exciting to see so yeah check into that sort of stuff but also abc radio Lots of different print publications as well.
01:04:37
Speaker
the And just because I know you've had a really busy time and we've spoken a lot about your self-awareness and then self-care, how are you going to kind of tend the exhausted part of yourself after this big time just for inspiration for anyone who might also need to do so?
01:04:55
Speaker
I have noticed that the captain, once he's been really active, he likes a very carb-heavy meal. And I realise that hormonally that's because we're trying to replenish cortisol that's been used up. So I think macaroni cheese is on the menu for today and maybe some crunchy snacks.
01:05:12
Speaker
ah Yeah, I think that's the plan. And probably, don't know, some sewing at some point, something hand stitching so I can kind of pinpoint my fizzy energy into the stitches that go into a garment.
01:05:24
Speaker
So wonderful to spend this hour and six minutes with you, Anna. It's just a joy as always. Thank you for making the time. Thank you for having me.
01:05:37
Speaker
That was anna Matilda, a ripper of a human being and educator who I heartily recommend learning from if you're in or around Melbourne or picking up a copy of her new book, Everyday Permaculture, for inspo wherever you happen to be.
Closing Thoughts and Future Plans
01:05:50
Speaker
Super grateful to Anna for making space in the hectic season of launching a book to sit down with me for a chat. And also, thanks to everyone who's leaving the podcast, five-star reviews on Apple and Spotify, and also comments on individual episodes.
01:06:04
Speaker
I had no idea that function existed on Spotify. Maybe a lot of people don't know about it. But it definitely has potential to continue the conversation after the episode is wrapped and make connections, so I'm all for it.
01:06:16
Speaker
Check it out and comment if you feel like it. ah All right, I should probably tell you, this is the announcement that I mentioned at the top of the episode, I should probably tell you that I'm thinking about dropping the podcast frequency back to fortnightly. Hear that avoidant, indecisive language?
01:06:33
Speaker
I've resisted a slower release schedule for ages because I love the weekly rhythm and two whole weeks between inspiration injections feels like an age. And also there are so many amazing guests and interviews that I get really excited about and I just want to release them immediately.
01:06:49
Speaker
But you will notice that I dropped the ball on last week's episode. That was just a sheer lack of capacity. And ongoingly I find myself scrambling like a mad thing to meet my own self-imposed deadline each and every week, pouring frenetic kind of energy into finishing these episodes and working late into the night when really I'd prefer them to be infused with some semblance of of sustainability, spaciousness, and care, attention to detail.
01:07:21
Speaker
So I'm really sad to ratchet it back and I'm actually harbouring a big fear that maybe a whole bunch of people won't listen to Riskillians anymore or forget about Riskillians because the uploads aren't so frequent.
01:07:35
Speaker
I've just got to trust that doing Raskillians less but better is not just better for me, but for everyone and for my guests and maybe the planetary metronome that is currently ticking at such a fast rate that it's impossible to really be present.
01:07:50
Speaker
So every small act of slowing down can grant us all a bit of time, right? That's the theory. Who knows? Maybe these conversations will have more impact.
01:08:02
Speaker
and work more magic if we have more time to marinate on them. I'd actually love to hear what you think. Send me an email at katie.com.au with your musings, because I really value the collaborativeness of this podcast as well. Not that I can just magically create more time in my schedule, but yeah, let me know what you think. Maybe there's opportunities that I'm missing. Maybe the format can be different.
01:08:25
Speaker
Hit me up with your ideas. All right, I'm going to run outside and stack firewood, but I just appreciate you all so much and wish you a fortnight filled with birdsong, the beating of tiny bat wings and the acquisition of high quality carbon for the compost pile because it is now autumn leaf season.
01:08:44
Speaker
Have an awesome time and I'll catch you real soon.