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Rewild Christmas Lunch! with Eva + Will of Wild Beings
619 Plays16 days ago
If you're sick of ham sandwiches and Love Actually, why not bring spear throwing and possum skinning to Chrissy lunch? Eva and Will of Wild Beings have some cracking ideas for rewilding family gatherings -- and every other facet of modern existence, for that matter.
These two intrepid humans lead a radically connected life on/in/with the land, and inspire others to do the same. Tracking, hunting, foraging, tanning, weaving, bush medicine and bird language... this conversation harks back to the OG roots of Reskillience; re-membering that old, wise body of ecological knowledge and running with it... into the shrubbery.
🧙♀️ LINKY POOS
Seasonal Earth Skills Gathering
[book] Wild Food Plants of Australia ~ Tim Lowe
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Resilience Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Hey, hey this is Katie, and you're tuned into Rescilience, a podcast about the hard, soft and surprising skills that'll help us stay afloat if our modern systems don't. I'm gratefully recording on Jara Country, Central Victoria, and pay my deepest respects to this land and her people.
Rediscovering Skills and Childhood Memories
00:00:27
Speaker
I want to quickly tell you about something kind of strange that happened last week. A group of us got together for a game of Ultimate Frisbee. Now that's not the strange part. It was actually so fun to run around like a pack of wild animals playing for the sake of playing in the last rays of a balmy spring day. No, the weird part was that somehow, having not looked at a frisbee in a couple of decades, I found myself flinging that thing with deadly accuracy, flat and straight and fast. As soon as I had it in my hand it was like a homecoming, a bone deep, soul deep in fact connection with a plastic disc the size and shape of a pizza base and the weight of a bird. My friends asked me where I learned to frisbee like that and I suddenly remembered all those summer afternoons and school holidays throwing and catching balls and frisbees and frisbee derivatives with my dad.
Impact of Childhood Skills on Adulthood
00:01:25
Speaker
I'm descended from a long line of frisbee fiends. It's an ancestral skill in my clan, passed down through the generations. And what this game of ultimate frisbee gifted me was a really very rare sensation in my life of knowing something down to the individual muscle fibres, possessing an old and embedded childhood skill, much like riding a bike.
00:01:48
Speaker
I don't know if this resonates with you, but most of the time I'm doing things well and truly outside my comfort zone, including this podcast by the way, trying new stuff relentlessly and somewhat begrudgingly, churning up a learning curve. Being able to throw a frisbee with ease and reawaken that childhood expertise got me thinking.
00:02:08
Speaker
imagine if I'd spent my early years playing ultimate foraging ultimate fermenting ultimate weaving ultimate tanning ultimate pickling ultimate shelter building you get the picture just imagine what it's like to be shown how to skin a rabbit or swing an axe or tense a drum from when you're one or three or seven. These things that we learn as children really stick. But the way I console myself when I feel down about having to awkwardly develop living and practical skills as an adult is to say, hey, at least I get to experience the contrast between not knowing and knowing.
00:02:48
Speaker
I have the inglorious opportunity to feel the interruption and restoration of connection. All of us who are a bit miffed that our culture teaches us frisbee and social media hacks rather than fire by friction, we all have the chance to come home to the old ways and experience them as new. And that is pretty sweet. People like Eva and Will of wild beings who we're hanging out with for the next hour or so are the perfect demonstration of this.
00:03:16
Speaker
These young folks took a radical detour on their definitively normal regular life paths to go bush and become reacquainted with all of those ancestral skills that most of us have outsourced. Eva and Will learned and are constantly learning the ways of the land, how to participate as creaturely custodians of their local ecology.
Living in Tune with Nature
00:03:37
Speaker
They hunt, fish, tan, forage, build shelters, practice bush crafts and pass this rekindled knowledge onto a growing community of students who attend their workshops and retreats. Eva and Will and I had a big old yarn about their unconventional lifestyle their finances, their knowledge base, and where they seek new knowledge and how they hone their skills, and even rewilding Christmas, how they go about that. And then we jump into their combined list of 10 hands-on suggestions for deep nature connection.
00:04:10
Speaker
So just before we get into this conversation, I need to broadcast the biggest, loudest thank you to everyone over on Patreon who is supporting the show. You are literally making all the difference to my weekly finances and morale right now. It feels like magic to be propped up by a community of friends and enthusiasts. And it is magic, and it's also maths.
00:04:31
Speaker
I love these models of enoughness where everyone just gives what they can. And perhaps that's nothing at all, which is totally legit too. So if you love listening to reskillians and can't necessarily donate to the podcast but you want to give it some love, maybe a little early Christmas present, you can leave a five star rating or write a rave review on iTunes because that is honestly so epic for the show too. Makes it look really credible, makes up for my lack of credibility sometimes.
00:04:58
Speaker
So I've linked to the Patreon page and the show notes. If you'd like to make a donation or have a look around, please don't use the Patreon app to pledge anything because they've just introduced a dumb and substantial fee. Be sure to do all of that stuff via your web browser.
00:05:13
Speaker
So particular and quite bashful thanks to the five friends, people I actually know in real life who were dear to me, who last week donated to the show. They signed up as members. And it is quite surreal to see your names pop up. Nina, Marie, Manu, Megan and Susie. Thank you, you wonderful, wonderful women. Thank you so much.
00:05:36
Speaker
Okay, that is more than enough
Observing Seasonal Changes
00:05:38
Speaker
housekeeping. So let's take this conversation into the great outdoors with Will and Eva of Wild Beings.
00:05:47
Speaker
You'll hear from nurseries and stuff to put pumpkins in full sun and we'll plant them in aid and they'll start creeping towards the sun because they want more sunlight and as soon as they get more sun they just instantly die.
00:06:01
Speaker
Oh, I'm melting, I'm melting. Yeah, this is proper, brutal sun up here. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, it is a nice place to drop into this conversation, you two, Eva and Will, for everyone listening along at home, because I did want to ask you about the seasonal happenings around you there on the land, in the country you're on, like what kind of seasonal indicators are afoot? Yeah, it's a really exciting question for right now, because ah from about um over a month ago, everything has just been absolutely buzzing here. So we are yeah on Dak and Yong lands um about an hour and a half west of Newcastle. So it's very dry sandstone country out here. And one of the one of our favorite seasonal markets is when the channel build cookoots arrive.
00:06:53
Speaker
which they did, I think it was early this year, it was in September sometime, um causing a ruckus in the skies. And right now, as we look out the window, there are the Angophora castartas, which are the iconic Sydney red gums, which are just starting to drop their amazing ah pink bark. So that's a very exciting happening as well.
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's also the time at the moment where ah the cicadas are crawling out of the ground and um transforming onto the trees into their final stage for mating. yeah And I don't know if you can hear, but lots of them are currently out already and flying around and having a good time. um Yeah, that is such a nostalgic sound growing up in New South Wales. I really don't hear it as much here. I need to actually qualified that statement. I'm sure there are cicadas out there, but we get more of like the pobble bongs and the crickets and like unidentified, riveting, peeping, singing creatures in the night that it's really actually hard to figure out what some of those sounds are and who they're coming from. um I'm sure that's a huge part of what you two do for fun, but also in terms of sharing
00:08:08
Speaker
rewilding and ecological knowledge with other people, like being really curious about, oh, what is that sound that I'm hearing? What is that bird? What is that creature? Like I always thought it was a bug, but actually it's a bird or, you know, those kinds of discoveries.
00:08:21
Speaker
Oh absolutely like the sounds of nature around us are so incredible and can tell us so much about what is actually happening um at that time of the day or the night and yeah that's something that we've really honed in on over the years because we spent a lot of years not living in a house so just yeah sleeping outside and you really get to you kind of fine tune to to the sounds of the night I think because it's a lot less busy than the daytime um so you're hearing I don't know for me ah you're hearing kind of just um picks up on on all of the soundscape around you and
00:09:00
Speaker
But yeah, even with birds, like in the daytime, um often we'll be with folks and they kind of, the birds seem to be kind of just all blended together for those who have not yet kind of ah trained that muscle of differentiating the different calls. And it's really amazing actually watching people when you when you say, oh, that was a glossy black cockatoo or something. And they're like, oh, wow, like I've never actually put a name or an individual being to the sounds. And I think it's a beautiful way of Yeah, just deepening your own relationship with um all of the the creatures around us. It's quite exciting. um Yeah, beautifully said. And I'm already so excited by these birds that you're naming because I'm very much into birds and the songs that are suffusing the air here and trying to pick out.
00:09:50
Speaker
who's singing that particular song and you've mentioned the channel Build Cuckoo and the glossy, was it the glossy black cockatoo? Yeah, cockatoo, yeah, glossy black. And they're not familiar to me, like they're not my friends, you know, I've got my little posse of local birds here and I'm like, oh, what do they sound like? Oh, wow. That's so well ah interesting. I didn't know that the channel builds didn't go in, but you're, you must be quite away, away from the coastline. Then I think they just stick to the east coast.
00:10:18
Speaker
Yep, yep. But i would I would really love to hear about that relationship that you've developed over time, living on the land, and maybe a life in former years that was far less connected to place and ecology. Would you mind sharing your backstory, Eva and Will, like both of you, respectively? I'm sure you've come along different paths. I am so curious to know how you've ended up where you are today.
Journey from Partying to Peace
00:10:45
Speaker
Yes, it's definitely some good tales um that led us to where we are today but I grew up like on the central coast and yeah like I grew up on the beach and I was lucky enough to have like a lot of reserves around me as a young one so nature is something that has always been you know, a part of my world, but it was quite different as ah as a young teenager. Like I was very into the party realm and I don't know, I guess without going too deep into it, you could say that I was, I had a lot of angst and I was a bit of a rebel and I was kind of angry at the world as a young human and I didn't quite understand my place within society. And that led me onto, yeah, the the path of a rebel and, you know, the path of the party realm and
00:11:34
Speaker
ah going pretty deep down that that road of exploration. And yeah, I guess a lot of um a lot of young and dumb decisions, but that's all part of trying to figure it out as a young person in a somewhat broken culture. um And then in my mid 20s, yeah, I kind of had a massive, huge turnaround while I was traveling.
00:11:58
Speaker
Australia and kind of was like a slap in the face and I just completely went cold turkey stopped stopped my partying and was like oh my god like what I've been longing for and searching for and this void that I've been trying to feel my whole life through you know substances and and bad decisions it's here in nature it's here in the bush like the the the presence of the earth just kind of touched a deeper part of me. um And I pretty much haven't looked back since that moment in my mid-20s. That just led me on a path of yeah really seeking out ah folks who were knowledgeable, um whether that was through bushcraft or yeah permaculture things or indigenous knowledge, just living away from the cultural norms that I grew up with. um
00:12:54
Speaker
And yeah then in 2020 I was living in a wonderful beltan on my auntie's property and yeah that's when we decided to we wanted to share this way of living with other people like we had just we felt so rich and so um nourished by this lifestyle of living simply and in deep relationship like we weren't pretty extreme like it ah nowadays I feel like I'm a bit more have a foot in two worlds but back then I was pretty yeah pretty far away from
00:13:29
Speaker
the depths of society and in my little bush um bush nest and that's when we yeah we decided to create wild beings to share that way of living with the broader community and by doing that it allowed us to really uh deepen our own relationship with with the skills and the philosophies um behind behind all of that so yeah that's it in a nutshell for me yeah so When I was a kid as well, um I grew up on the central coast in suburbia, but we had um little bits of bush that were sort of, you know, around the place that were within walking distance that would go hanging out in. And ah yeah, we spent lots of time building tree houses and like basically just being outdoors in nature. um Yeah, so that sort of set the the tone for that like connection to nature, I guess.
00:14:27
Speaker
And then as I went through high school and all that, I sort of left all that behind to a degree and was sort of more occupied with studying and, um, and getting all caught up in trying to get good grades and all that sort of thing. And then when I finished year 12, I was going to go into engineering. Um, but I decided to take a gap year and then within that gap year, um,
00:14:57
Speaker
just having so much more time to like reflect on yourself and like try and actually figure out what you want to do as an individual without outside influence. Um, and that single gap year turned into many gap years and, um, yeah, lots of like self discovery. And, and then during that time, it was a little bit of a thing to go.
00:15:25
Speaker
on a vegan diet because of all the environmental issues that we're faced with at the moment. So um after seeing several documentaries, I went fully plant based for like quite a long time thinking, you know, with the mindset of doing the right thing by the land and the environment. um And then, yeah, after after an amount of time on that and moving into like a camp with Eva and
00:15:56
Speaker
like another couple of our friends I was exposed to the idea of eating roadkill and then the ethics around that so like at the time say I could be buying chickpeas from Italy that have flown across the country or even worse any of the process junk that's a combination of many different extracted parts of plants to create something that's not really real which has all these you know, food miles behind it and all that, or you could have food that is local, grown in the ecology, and the life has been wasted anyway by a car accident. So it just sort of, after a certain amount of time, we've been exposed to that, like you can't deny that it's a better, more ethical choice to make. And then that was a slippery slope straight into like, the diving into all of the the skills and everything. so
00:16:53
Speaker
Before that, I was much more into permaculture and I did a PDC and all those sort of things. But then the more you look into it, the more you realize that the only time in history that humans have lived in harmonious uh relationship with the land was during those pre-agricultural times so like the stone age period I guess um and that changes timewise throughout the world but um during that sort of level of technology is usually when there's the most harmonious relationships with the land um and then yeah I guess that just led me down a rabbit hole of you know figuring out
00:17:39
Speaker
what were they doing back then that worked so well and created so much harmony and how can we learn as much about that as possible and bring it in to the modern age with the things that are still somewhat relevant to the lives we're living even though we're living in a completely different system um in a different society and a different world completely but um trying to join those two things together And essentially just like remembering how to be a human again, right?
Rekindling Human Ties to Ecology
00:18:09
Speaker
Because for the majority of our history, we were living in that relationship with the land. And it's only a recent thing that we're extracted from our habitat um in this strange foreign world. So it just makes so much, so much sense um to just remember like what it is to be human and part of ecology and how we can achieve that too.
00:18:34
Speaker
ah to the best that we can in this modern world. Yeah and to also participate in ecology. um I feel a lot of the time as modern humans it's very easy to get caught up in just um just having these interactions with shopping centers rather than nature. um But yeah, I guess the more you interact with nature, the more you feel that connection with it as well and and then want to preserve and protect it as well. So yeah, like whatever that looks like for the individual. But for me, I guess it looks like um like hunting species of animals in Australia that are considered invasive and
00:19:18
Speaker
do damage to certain ecologies. um yeah Or it could be foraging weeds that are introduced and outcompete lots of other plants and then using them for food and medicine. ah Just simple things like that.
00:19:35
Speaker
yeah new Wow. Wow. You two is like so many questions flourishing from that amazing storytelling that you just offered. And some of them are quite nosy. Like I know you're very, you look very bright eyed and bushy tailed and I can ascribe that absolutely to your lifestyle, but would you mind sharing how old you are? You're still quite young, right? I'm 32 and Will is... I'm 27. Okay.
00:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's just it's just super cool to hear about your trajectory and inspiration to go run off into the horizon and deeper into the weeds of rewilding and living ancestrally. And I suppose one of my other nosy questions is like, did you experience any cynic cynicism or do you have any naysayers like in your friends or family groups or even internally, like were there voices of questioning your sanity for living in such a way?
00:20:30
Speaker
At the beginning, absolutely not. At the beginning, I think it was, it was so, so like, it was kind of like a homecoming. Like, oh my, because I think that it just, all of it made so much sense. um And I think that my family probably thought I was a bit crazy because I just kind of ran away from, from home. um And yeah, found my, found a new, a new life in the bush. But as those philosophies kind of became more integrated into my lifestyle. And as they started to see like, oh, well, ah Eva is actually really happy and healthy now. And she's got all this really random knowledge about the bush. I think they understood that it wasn't just some crazy hippie um path, that it was actually like a ah grounded and wholesome way of being that um allowed us to feel, yeah, quite quite connected. What about you, Will?
00:21:25
Speaker
Yeah, so for me, I feel like I've had lots of support from my family um throughout that whole time. I think they're quite aware that I'm that I go from extremes. um And yet they're like, I think they're somewhat like impressed sometimes as well, like just like how dedicated and how deep.
00:21:48
Speaker
Like you go into things, like when I was doing the plant-based thing, I ended up eating nothing but like raw fruits and vegetables, thinking with the philosophy of um that fruits are the only food that's gifted to you by nature with the exchange of you burning the seeds around. um So yeah, like from that to like conservation and subsistence hunting with a bow in the bush, like ah I don't think they were ever really like surprised. They're just sort of used to it.
00:22:18
Speaker
yeah yeah I fully have been on the 30 bananas a day bandwagon and have lived to tail tell the tale but only just. yeah I think as well to answer more of that question, we have been really really lucky over the years to really have some solid, I guess, rewilding folks around us. So we are, we kind of are in a bit of a bubble, like we we really have been in a bubble of like minded folks. And yeah, we go out into the world um and we share this stuff. But I think we've been, I don't know, lucky to kind of
00:22:54
Speaker
have really supportive folks around us for so many years so there's probably a lot of criticism but we just it doesn't get to our ears. That's an amazing an amazing asset I'm forever grateful that people around here have like an anti-consumerist anti-status like the inversion of normal societal values goes here like if you showed up with ah a massive wrist weighing down watch to a potluck people would be like oh did you just find that in a bin or something like what are you doing?
00:23:25
Speaker
That's so great. literally yeah It is amazing. I always have more nosy questions, but um one of the ones that I love asking people is illuminating how you make your life work. Is there anything you could share that is either yeah like a struggle that you face in that department or a wonderful truth that people might not realise when you live in close connection and reciprocity with your place? like You actually don't need very much money. is there Is there anything in that question that you'd be happy to to speak to?
00:23:56
Speaker
it's It's definitely been an interesting one over the years. When we weren't living in a house, it was fine because we didn't really have any rent to pay for those first few years. So it was very easy for us to kind of just live on the small amount that we would make from running the little bush school or running the workshops. but now that we're living in ah in a property where we're renting and we have that weekly um but weekly debt really to to make. it's been ah It's been an interesting thing um figuring out a way that feels right and natural um making you know an income from these skills because for me I think personally it's been a massive journey of like
00:24:44
Speaker
This is so weird and ick. Like these are human living skills that, how can we put um how can we put a price on them? Like how can we actually charge people to just come and learn how to make fire by friction or how to identify certain um edible and medicinal plants? It's been a big journey for me with my own stories around money um and figuring out how to make that yeah feel feel right and I think that we've had a lot of beautiful support from you know older older folks in our community that are explaining like well it's an exchange like it's money unfortunately or whether you like it or not is like the the currency ah for a lot it's not the only currency but it is like the one of the main currencies and so really just
00:25:33
Speaker
figuring out how to yeah how to have a somewhat positive relationship with with that. And on that as well, we we've just been able to like make enough to make ends meet. So I'm content with that. I think Will has a ah different relationship with money um than I do, but I'm content just making enough to make ends meet. like We can pay our rent. um you know We do buy local produce from like the organic farmers and things like that. and And you know when you're sometimes when you're eating are wanting to eat locally and you know organically it does cost a little bit more as well. um For a while there, we were doing work exchange. So when we were living in that bush camp, we were just going down to the local organic farmer property and helping him for a day a week and then getting some veggie boxes and things like that. But due to the nature of how much we are back and forth from home now, we don't really have the time to
00:26:32
Speaker
Yeah, invest in those kind of um exchanges as as much as our little workshops and gatherings and things. Yeah. but I also think um it's true what you said before, like the closer you can live to the land, the lower your cost of living is. um Like, for example,
00:26:54
Speaker
We haven't had to buy meat any red meat for like the last couple of years. um And that's only getting better with time as well. um And the same with like seafood. We don't like we don necessarily have to go and buy fish. We could go and spear it out of the ocean. um But yeah, how we're living now in a cabin in the bush is like the most expensive way we've lived before, but it also feels really nice when we lived in the bush camp. We had all these crafts and um skins that were tanning and spoons that we had carved. And then we had those big floods come through over those years. And then just like all of our swags and tents and bedding and crafts just got covered in mold.
00:27:45
Speaker
um were like, okay, it's probably time to look at getting at least a little cabin somewhere. And um yeah, it's been lovely having shelter that shelter to to live in. ah And yeah, that comes with...
00:28:04
Speaker
ah more cost. So just looking at how we can make the right connections and align our lives to making a little bit more income so we can live with a roof over our heads instead of just straight in the bush. but Absolutely. And also having the privilege of being able to make somewhat of a living from things that we're so passionate about and know that that doesn't exist in a lot of the other world. So that's definitely something to be really grateful for as well, that we're able to actually do that. Yeah.
00:28:40
Speaker
Yeah, indeed. Yeah, and being grateful for as much as we feel able to hold that gratitude for things that just suck eggs sometimes, but seeing the gifts in those struggles is a great salve for an agitated mind.
Ethics of Hunting and Consuming Meat
00:28:55
Speaker
um Will, I do want to hear more from you about hunting because especially as a former vegan turned spear fisherman, deer man providing um protein and meat for your household. It's just, it's so cool. But I think we're still right on there the fringe of the conversation around compassion.
00:29:15
Speaker
and hunting and those two words going together in the same sentence because like you, I imagine, like I i love animals. I have such a ah kindred sense with the smallest animals, the fish, the ones who don't emote like human beings, the the tiny ones we sweep aside without a second thought. And um from that space, like holding that and my requirement for flesh and blood and organs and and protein and cartilage and, you know, the gore and the guts and the gristle of the the reality of eating meat. And for yourself, um going through that transition and kind of, and I just love to hear your position on on loving animals and killing them and eating them at the same time and where you've gotten to with that and what you can bring to life in the death conversation for people who might just see that as completely paradoxical. Yeah, well, um
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah, I actually feel like I'm more connected to and love the animals more um through that process because then there's like the realization of like the only reason that you are living is because like they have lost their lives. So there's like a great honoring of that animal, I guess, because it's allowing you to continue to live and do what you do.
00:30:39
Speaker
And I also feel like that brings in a level of like duty to try and do like the best that you can with your life because you're like, wow, it takes, this is what it takes for me to sustain myself and um loved ones and family and all that. This is what it takes to keep them going. So like, if I'm going to keep going on and do the best I can to be the best human I can be because you know,
00:31:10
Speaker
those lives have been sacrificed for us to be able to live basically. Um, and yeah, like that, that comes with like a certain level of reverence and gratitude. And like every time, like you pull some meat out of the freezer, it's, it reminds you of that experience and it reminds you to be grateful for, um, being able to eat every day and And yeah, that life of the animal and just how long that one animal can sustain you for. Um, yeah. Yeah. It's a super, it's a super special thing to have experienced and to like participate in ecology like that. Yeah. To that, especially that first experience with taking an animal's life. That's a big deal. Um,
00:32:09
Speaker
for someone who hasn't been exposed to that. Tribal cultures, for example, kids will be exposed to that throughout their whole lives. But with this modern setting that we're living in, most people haven't ever seen that process at all. It's just like meat is just this thing that's in a packet on the shelf. But to go through that process and sit with the death of an animal and And then have that gratitude for how much nutrients and sustenance and life force that's going to give you and your family and loved ones to very, very special thing. And I feel very um lucky to be able to ah be with those animals in the end of their life and yeah, super grateful.
00:32:55
Speaker
and And it's really such an intimate it's really such an intimate our relationship with the meat that you're consuming then, because not only has Will taken the life um through many, many days of observation and and tracking and being patient, and it like it's not just like, go out and take the take the kill, it's often he's out there for days and days and days, like observing before,
00:33:23
Speaker
before the kill actually happens but then being able to actually yeah bring that animal home and and butcher it and then utilize every single part and really get to know that every single deer or goat that he's brought home has been so unique and different scars on its pelt and and have different like it's just a really beautiful beautiful relationship and intimacy with with the the flesh and and the body of these incredible creatures that we are so um privileged to be able to have that really ancient connection with, like through through the the the life and death cycle. Like it's honestly so powerful and so... And yes, it's absolutely raw and it absolutely can be so intense, but
00:34:14
Speaker
I truly, truly believe that for me anyway, that's been one of the most deeply, deeply humbling and powerful um forms of relating with ah life has been through the death process and honoring that and being faced with with that as well. It's been very, very special. Yeah. And when you when you're witnessing the end of an animal's life, like,
00:34:42
Speaker
And it's because of you, you really want to like respect that animal by using is absolutely as much as you possibly can. Um, whereas I feel like a lot of the time with supermarkets and that, or even, even if we buy like game meat from the butchers, it's still like wild hunted deer or whatever, but then there's like, you know, you can buy a rump or you can buy a backstrap and then it's like, well,
00:35:10
Speaker
What happened with the rest of the deer? There's shanks, shoulders, ribs. There's all this fat and all these organs and all that. and you know We never know what happens to any of that, but then when you go and do it yourself, you know that as much as as much that can be used of that animal is going to be used and then some as well like to the point where we're using the bones to make tools um or broth and using the the tendons and sinew to also make different tools or boil all those down and using the brains and all the edible organs.
00:35:50
Speaker
um and intestines and stomachs and you know and just using honoring as much of that animal as we possibly can through utilizing it. Eva where do you find a sense of flow? Is there something where you just completely lose yourself?
00:36:07
Speaker
oh I would say the first thing that comes to mind would be with the birds. like I definitely have a strong affinity with the with the birds around as well, but also it really has been through animal animal processing and just using the whole animal. and I think i I wasn't vegan but I was a vegetarian for most of my life before beginning to eat wild game and for me I just really loved how grounding that was and how much presence one has when actually ah navigating their way through the the animal, of a while um the body of ah of a wild animal. So yeah, I would say it would have to be like tanning. Yeah, tanning and birds would be my most
00:36:54
Speaker
ah connected skills that I really drop into that flow with. Yeah, yeah. And a thought just popped into my head. We're coming up to the festive season and whether or not you celebrate, celebrate Christmas, a lot of people are going to be seeing distant relatives, long forgotten friends, feasting around a table together and navigating a whole bunch of different food preferences and ways of preparing and procuring those particular calories. Like do you two have any practices or like hard and fast rules when you're gathering with other people who might not share your commitment to the provenance of say an animal? Like do you role model the things that you're talking about right now or are you pretty relaxed and you're happy to just eat like a bin chicken? What's your approach? ah web We're pretty strict on meat, like other things
00:37:48
Speaker
you know we might have a few naughty treats at Christmas like with the family but we are pretty strict on meat so we'll always bring like wild game. to our separate families but whether they partake is another thing we're still working on reframing those cultural um beliefs around you know deer and oh yuck like that's so gamey and yuck it's like have you tried it like just try this slow cook deer stew and tell me that it's tell me that it's gross like so yeah i guess i guess just bringing um meat like to our family's place when we're with
00:38:22
Speaker
when we're gathering with friends and everything, as we said before, it's pretty pretty similar. Like ah ah one of our good friends on the coast, like they run a little Eagle Ridge permaculture block, so she'll bring like lots of fresh produce and things like that. But yeah, I mean, when when we're with family, it's yeah, meat is probably ah where, yeah, that's where we're kind of a non-negotiable, like,
00:38:48
Speaker
we'll bring the wild meat, but then we'll have like some naughty cake of Nana's or something like that, you know? Yeah, I think it's important to have like a certain level of grace with that sort of thing um because food is a way that connects people. And especially if someone's like put a whole bunch of love into something they've cooked um and you deny it, it's kind of like a rejection of that person as well. So trying to find the middle ground um with that kind of thing and ah being a little bit more open to certain settings like that. But yeah, like you have to draw the line somewhere. And yeah, for us or for me, it's definitely like if someone's gotten some like $3 packet of snags from Coles that are come from, you know, like that's probably where the the line is. Like if it's it's like,
00:39:47
Speaker
meat that hasn't been raised in the best way. Um, and, and it's processed or whatever. Like that's kind of where the line is. Like we wouldn't ever put that onto anyone else or tell people like, Oh, you know, you shouldn't be eating that. It's just like, it's just like a very polite, Oh, no, thanks. Or like, Oh, I'm just going to have some of this in instead.
00:40:11
Speaker
sounds like a really fair and non-confrontational approach to that situation that I know a lot of people struggle with when their values start to diverge from that of their loved ones. One more kind of festively themed question and I i really hope I'm not completely overriding the beautiful list that you've prepared as well for people. Thinking again on this theme of gathering together with a whole bunch of different folks and energies and personalities that are well and truly outside our bubble possibly and being in this this space that you're both living and working in there are so many ways of connecting with each other like rituals and ceremonies and
00:40:52
Speaker
fun games and things that draw us into that community connection that we I believe so long for deep down so many of us and I'm wondering if you bring any of that spirit into your time with family over the holidays like do you try and get people like fox walking around the backyard or using their peripheral vision in a new and interesting way You did a bit of ah spear throwing with some cousins one Christmas. Like that was. Yeah. I feel like it's, um, it depends on the, the interest level of like family members. Like I have a ah couple of younger cousins and stuff on my dad's side who are like pretty interested in all the outdoor stuff. So I'll bring like, um, like a spear and a spear thrower, for example, and, and do that. And.
00:41:44
Speaker
little bits and pieces like that but um or like start like maybe make some friction fires or something like that there's got to be like interest for it already for me to like want to bring those things to those kind of gatherings yeah my family um as wonderful and beautiful as they are like it's they're very traditional you know so I, being a young one in the big family group, I i feel like just giving them little through um taste tests of all of these things. Like in seeing where, how deep the interest is, or if there is even an interest there. And I think it's been mostly by accident. Like I remember one Christmas day finding a ah dead possum on our road at my auntie's place, so I just ended up
00:42:35
Speaker
bring it into the backyard and skinny it. And that kind of freaked a lot of my aunty and um my uncle and and things out. But yeah, I know that my my niece is very interested in that. like my Her parents don't really want her touching, but it's still just little accidents like that, I guess, um as as us kind of seeping our little rewilding tendrils in there without being too deliberate about it. I might just content myself with wearing a goatskin loincloth to Christmas lunch and see who asks any questions. Perfect. That's, yeah. That's amazing. That's perfect. but
00:43:16
Speaker
All right, well, maybe we should move on to the the second part of this conversation, even though I just feel like I could endlessly pepper you with questions that you have such articulate and beautiful responses to, but um I would love to honour what you've created for us and the listeners today, and also like how you how you approached this this bit of homework that I set for you. Did you actually sit down together and create a list of 10 things, or are you just going to wing it We actually created the list separately and then like today, this morning, and um when we've come back together, there's some that are quite similar, but we've said them in our own unique ways. So yeah, yeah. Amazing. I cannot wait to hear. What are you feeling like calling them? Are they rewilding?
00:44:06
Speaker
rewinding ways. I would say it's definitely like a theme of yeah connecting back with nature and little prompts and little ah i guess little skills that are really cool and fun um gateways into um making that connection a practical um in your in your life. That's kind of a bit of the theme I think of a lot of our work is how can we make this deep nature connection practical um in the way that we move through the world. So yeah, we can but can begin. yeah That is bloody great news because I get caught up in a lot of philosophical waftiness and the podcast promises to be about skills, but it's actually just me pontificating a lot of the time. So please give us some practical recommendations.
00:44:55
Speaker
Yes well I think it's very fitting to start with my first one was get your hands in nature more whether that is through foraging or chopping wood or carving a spoon or weaving but just getting your hands um in nature like ah using your hands to craft or to weed or just I think it's such, again, an innate thing that humans have always had their hands touching some kind of element for as long as we've been walking on this earth. So that's my first one. My first one for, because the original question was ah setting some intentions for new years. um So my first
00:45:38
Speaker
thing to do for that would be to set your intentions in the Australian New Year, which would be the winter solstice instead. oh damn ha I find it's a better way of like, it's a more reflective time.
00:45:56
Speaker
um during those winter months. And I like to plan or set intentions for the following year from that shortest day of the year. um And then throughout the summertime is like, that's your, you're doing time. That's when you're making all of those things happen.
00:46:18
Speaker
Absolutely will. Yeah. I mean, people are just going to have an extra long run up to be able to listen to this repeatedly until the winter time where they can start, start ah growing their list. That's look great. it' So my second one was spend more time being still in the bush because really, I truly think that there is nothing more beneficial and healing and therapeutic than when we actually remove ourselves from the busyness and yeah just spend time whether it's 20 minutes or a whole night or a whole week like alone in the bush it's it's such an important antidote to um the hustle and bustle of um you know this oversaturation of stimulation that we are constantly up against in in today's world through the screens and through our social relationships and our obligations it's
00:47:14
Speaker
It has, and I'm telling this to myself as well because I've been able to really hone in on that this year and spend quite a lot of time alone in the bush and just wow.
00:47:26
Speaker
like People are going paying big money for these retreats and and like ah healing modalities and it's like the single most powerful ah um healing and presencing practice would just be to spend time in in the bush alone and and consciously being still. um So that's that's my second one. I really hope they don't monetize that. Oh God, hopefully not. Get it while it's free, people.
00:47:56
Speaker
i So, um yeah, but I'm going to do two in this one because they're kind of related to each other. So it'd be to spend more time interacting with nature and then to learn more skills that connect you deeper to nature. So, um yeah, learning more about your ecology and how you can relate to it through, it could be learning which tree box are best to make cordage with and how to process them and then how to make string and then turn that string into fishing line or string bags or whatever you need it for. um It could be fishing, it could be hunting, it could be carving with different timbers, but basically spending more time in nature and interacting with it and
00:48:45
Speaker
growing your skill base more so that you can do more of those things. I mean, it's so easy to not do those things, isn't it? Because we can buy practically everything at Bunnings. Where do you find some of those knowledges? Because I'm noticing with with delight, with glee, that oftentimes Google doesn't have the answer for this kind of thing. like it's These knowledges are ah stored in living people and elders in community or old, old books. Where are some of your favorite places to learn these ancestral skills?
00:49:18
Speaker
ah Yeah, that's a great question. They're all in nature to begin with. Like if you know what to look for, you can find a lot of those things from nature. um But also, yeah, there's lots of different people throughout Australia who um teach those different skills. um So I would be looking into like who in your area um might be doing foraging workshops or weaving workshops or whatever it is and um looking at getting to one of those there's ah several like books that are really good for foraging one of them is ah what's Tim Lowe's one like wild Wild Foods of Australia or something like that
00:50:06
Speaker
Um, and yeah, there's books on weeds, like, uh, the wondrous world of weeds by Pat Collins. Um, yeah, there's, I could rattle, I could go to the, to the bookshelf and rattle off a whole bunch of books, but basically books and find some people in your local area teaching those skills and then get to,
Learning Ancestral Skills
00:50:29
Speaker
get to a course if you can. That's the, that's, I found I learned the best is through learning from other people.
00:50:36
Speaker
Totally. Yeah. Could you say a tiny bit more about the skills being living in the landscape and accessible in the landscape? ah Yeah. So like, for example, if you learn how to ret fibers out of in a bark to make string, they're like, you might notice certain qualities about that in a bark that the fibers are quite strong and they look a certain way. They're all sort of parallel or um, whatever it may be. And then you can take those variables and apply them to different in a box, for example. And then you might work out that another plant has those similar qualities and is also good for making string. It's really about observation as well. Like, especially one example we can give is with seeking out tan and rich box in our area. Cause we know that.
00:51:27
Speaker
Black Waddle, the Acacia Decorins is full of tannins because we've got told that by fellow tanner friends and we've read it in resources as well. But we, one of our iron bucks fell down last year and we were just looking at the bark and we were like, wow, like that's so red and rich. So just picking up on that pattern then and kind of ah practicing and experimenting and being able to figure it out through that um trial and error um from picking up certain patterns. Wow. Yeah. Noticing and.
00:51:56
Speaker
piecing things together and thinking for oneself. These are radical ideas. and And really, because we aren't in the village anymore, we don't have like, we have it to an extent, but unfortunately, we have been uprooted from those cultural um, wisdoms in a lot of ways. So we have to find all the fragmented pieces through, whether it's through seeking out knowledge holders or yeah, figuring out ourselves or doing a whole chunk of research. Like I feel like all of those things, um, definitely help to, to kind of rekindle a lot of that, uh, lost knowledge. And I think as well, I put down interacting with nature and learning more skills that connect you with nature, but
00:52:40
Speaker
like it's not necessarily about the end product or learning the skills, it's about um like, you know, there's there's heaps of science and research done now on people just being generally happier and in a more calm state when they're out in nature. um So I think by learning those different skills and different things, it's also giving you more of an excuse to go out and be in nature and um yeah come back to your center and and find that that calmness in your life as well. So it's like it's kind of like do these things so that you feel good and and learn and strong in life.
00:53:22
Speaker
Nice. I was just drifting off into this daydream of like you two leading politicians out onto the land and just regulating their nervous systems and calming their farm and teaching them real skills and giving them like the necessary tools and equanimity to actually do their job.
00:53:42
Speaker
absolutely I think they all need to do a ah big long sit spot and just listen to the birds for a bit. I think it would be really interesting to see what happens if like all those different parties that have to oppose each other suddenly have to work together to make a friction fire. That's so good. Channeling all that friction into something practical like making coal to cook your meal. Yes.
00:54:08
Speaker
yeah
00:54:11
Speaker
Okay, let let us not get too derailed. um Eva, what you got next? So my third one was yeah quite similar to Will's last one. And it was learn 10 different bush medicines and 10 different birds that are around you. Because I think that that that's just really one of the best ways to get really anchored into your place, like your local ecology. And it's kind of like the gateway then once you've learned a couple of bush medicines and a couple of birds around you, then it's like, okay, what's next? Like what more? And I think it's a good segue into the delving into that rewilding realm. Absolutely. And lists of 10 things are basically the greatest of all time. Yeah, yeah totally. Yeah, okay. So Will, you're up to... ah Number four. Number four. So my next one would be...
00:55:02
Speaker
um yeah if you've done the last two things and you've already started interacting with nature then ah begin to observe your relationship with nature and how you're interacting with it and then look for ah reciprocal symbiotic relationships that you have with nature and then double down on those things. So um like if you're weaving for example and you've discovered cat's claw which is like an invasive vine and
00:55:35
Speaker
you love weaving and then suddenly you're doing bush regen and pulling out a whole bunch of weeds so that you can weave then double down on that thing or if you've If you've gotten into hunting and you found out that there's a whole bunch of deer or goats or rabbits or whatever it is near you and you find your your peace when you're out there in nature observing animals and then hunting and then providing for yourself and family, then double down on that thing. so
00:56:08
Speaker
Yeah, whatever your interactions are, find the ones that are symbiotic for ah yourself and the ecology. I really love that point. My fourth one is If you eat meat, learn how to process an animal. So when I say process, I mean, yeah, learn learn how or observe someone like butchering. um Because I just think, yeah, it is truly such a um such a valuable and beautiful and intimate way of
00:56:41
Speaker
yeah really deepening that relationship with with meat and also learning about the anatomy. I've learned more about my own anatomy through animal processing than I ever knew so it's a really yeah really one that I can acknowledge might be Yeah, an edge for for many folk which is so fair enough as well. Yeah, it's actually a huge ah huge skill set and every animal, every species is really different and I find myself constantly forgetting if I haven't processed a rooster in a while or a rabbit. and um
00:57:18
Speaker
it's kind of like there are some universal I guess laws or rules you can apply to that space but then yeah every being is different, every individual being is different um and it's it's an intense and revelatory process if you've never done that before. Yeah yeah it can be really beautiful like a really beautiful deepening process. Oh right, Will.
00:57:42
Speaker
Yeah, so my last one is by far the hardest one for anyone to do, um but it's start moving towards aligning um the way you make money in the world to those ethics around looking after the ecology and the landscapes around you. um So yeah, that can look so different depending on what people have honed their skills in on to make a ah living but yeah just have a think about like different ways you might be able to um make that living slightly better for the ecology around you. That is massive and also massively exciting as a prospect if someone wants to throw themselves in and
00:58:37
Speaker
like what are the kind of jobs or acts of service or niches that someone might be able to fill in a more traditional village template that you might suggest as like, you know, I often look at lists of, um I don't often, I've one time looked at a list of like the best paying jobs for the least amount of study and number one was air conditioner fitter, which obviously is also to do with the changing climate and I just feel like Seriously? like There has to be some more inspiring alternative career choices for people looking for a radical change in their life. so yeah Is there anything that springs to mind as like, hey, what about this? I think any of the community work type jobs are really awesome. like It can be ah disability support work, it could be youth work, or um or helping people with drug and alcohol.
00:59:28
Speaker
and all of those kind of jobs you can weave in um a bit of nature things into it. So I did um like five years of youth work and three of those years doing ah residential care and like the I had the absolute best results whenever I could take ah any disadvantaged youth out into nature somewhere and go for a walk or or talk about plants or make cordage or any of those sort of things. That's when um I could help those kids regulate their nervous system the best. Inherently, it's an ethical job to begin with. it's
01:00:08
Speaker
It's helping, you know, look after people and um trying to give people a better life in whatever one it is. I think that's such a great, a great flip of my question, which was kind of thinking about total alternatives, but what about weaving together, you know, the weaving together of your current job?
01:00:27
Speaker
and then seeding some new ideas in your workplace culture or if you are an air conditioner fitter maybe you start fitting like owl nesting boxes and sugar glider boxes to the sides of people's houses and saying that they're an air conditioning unit but actually you're just going to have a bunch of wildlife making your home right next to your head.
01:00:43
Speaker
Yeah, but yeah, totally. But yeah, it's like bringing bringing these values and showing up in your workplace in a way that feels really authentic and good for you. And that might be a little bit edgy, but might actually create ripples that end up being really cool inside the system. Yeah.
01:00:59
Speaker
My last one was make wild weeds pesto. We just love it and it's a really great way to incorporate like plantain and farmer's friends and chickweed or whatever you have into your daily eating. So yes, that's my number five.
01:01:17
Speaker
o Nice. What would your pesto du jour be right now? sorry our ah Right now, it would mostly be plantain and farmer's friends, but usually if we've got all of our plant friends out there, we'd have farmer's friends, ah chickweed, plantain, and dandelion, and blend them up with a clove of garlic, some olive oil, and lemon juice. and Gosh, it's so good. So good. Hey, pesto medicine.
01:01:46
Speaker
yeah Yeah, totally. Oh, delicious. And I never knew because farmer's friends are such a thing from my childhood when I grew up in the hunter, but um we don't really have them here. and It's only learning a bit more about foraging now. I see them in the foraging books. I'm like, what? You can eat them? Yes, and they're such amazing medicines as well. It's like, yeah, reframing, reframing the hatred ah for the weeds. And like, wow, they're such amazing little dudes. Yeah. What is the medicine of Farmer's Friend?
01:02:17
Speaker
They're a really strong antiviral. um They can also be used as a poultice for conjunctivitis like so drawing out infection. um I think they're are all around like immunity booster. um Yeah, the main one that I know is they're antiviral.
01:02:36
Speaker
Uh, and yeah, for the conjunctivitis, but I'm sure there's a plethora. There's actually, actually there is, uh, I was doing some research actually and found, came across this random article, um, or research paper on farmer's friends, Biden's Pelosa being used to treat the herpes simplex one virus. So that was, that was pretty amazing. Um, I'm not sure what country that was in, but it was pretty amazing that they, uh,
01:03:05
Speaker
using something like that to treat um what folks would probably just put topical antibiotic cream on but now you can put topical farmer's friends on something like that. They're also supposed to be a good anti-cancer herb and also good for like arthritis but oh yeah I don't know if you have to use them in a particular way, or if you can just consume them. um But yeah, there's, there's a whole lot of research on them. um And if you just give it a quick Google, if you're interested at home, there's, yeah, there's heaps of stuff on them. Very cool. Yeah, yeah. I feel that sense of tragedy sometimes, like when I'm thinking of
01:03:51
Speaker
you you know, invasive plants, air quotes, and then if they could talk just saying, we're just trying to help guys, like, why are you going to be hating on us and like burning us and poisoning us? And I realize like the economic imperatives that say farmers have in the practical necessity of certain, you know, land being in X, Y and Z state that doesn't look like a rambling creeper or covered in farmer's friends. But it's just like taking a minute to just ask the question about why something is there and what function it's serving and how it's remediating some damage that we've likely inflicted on the land and I think it's it's it's a beautiful honouring to be able to
01:04:31
Speaker
not only understand the green community in a new way and appreciate them in a new way and take them into our bodies and like repurpose them, but not wage war to that um to that degree or to any degree and look for, like you mentioned earlier, will like a symbiosis or a partnership where everyone is having their needs met and we're kind of regenerating the land foundationally so that maybe this problem that we're trying to tackle from the top doesn't actually keep springing up from the bottom.
01:05:01
Speaker
Absolutely. It's really a reframing of, yeah, reframing of seeing them not as an enemy, but actually asking questions and coming with curiosity like, okay, what are you doing? Like, what is your purpose? And what are you like getting to know, getting to know the weeds before just totally annihilating them?
01:05:20
Speaker
Well, I i bloody love that list that is so juicy, and there is a lifetime's worth of cool shit to do if people so desire in those ten points between you. I'm wondering for you two personally, like what's an edge that you might be pushing at the moment, or what kind of new skills are you developing, or what are you just rampantly obsessed with right now?
01:05:43
Speaker
A bit of an edge would right now would be like primitive pottery. We've just made a um a big cooking pot, which has been like in the dreaming for the last few years and we haven't fired it yet. And so we've done a bit of small firing, like pit firing, but this we haven't really spent a lot of time doing the primitive pottery. so That's definitely something that we're wanting to put more energy into and really hoping that we don't crack this amazing pot that we've made. And for me, it would be like um all obsessed about hunting at the moment. um And I'm currently going and hunting with a compound bow, but
01:06:26
Speaker
looking into ah going through the process of making a bow out of like timber that you've been able to source and then um and then making arrows and stone points and all like that's that's the goal I guess is to one day be able to hunt an animal using nothing but like the landscape around you and the tools that ecology gives you to to go and get that done so yeah I'm kind of a little bit obsessed about that at the moment I'd say
01:06:59
Speaker
Wow, my goodness, they're two really, really tricky things to
Upcoming Ecological Workshops
01:07:03
Speaker
master. In terms of what you two are up to at this point, um it's very cool to have a bit of a New South Wales connection because there's a lot of Victorian focus with this podcast, but would you like to share like any any workshops that you've got coming up or any offerings or things you're excited about? And I, because this will be released pretty soon, I can link them in the show notes.
01:07:24
Speaker
cool Well, yeah, we've got a bit of a ah busy couple of weeks actually in December. We've got the Women's Rewilding Gathering, which is actually next week. and It's our first five day one and I'm really excited for that longer, longer gathering just to allow people to drop in a bit deeper.
01:07:43
Speaker
um and then the week after on this so the to the 8th of December is our um seasonal earth skills gathering and all of our gatherings are held up on the central coast at our friend's beautiful luscious private property there and then we're probably going to um and announce our 2025 calendar at some stage in the next few weeks. We just haven't quite haven't quite got there yet but that will definitely be coming um if people want to
01:08:14
Speaker
Yeah stay tuned via our website or socials they can definitely do that. And just for a little sneak peek into winter in 2025. We're looking at starting to do some like animal processing workshops and high tanning so um if people are interested in getting into hunting.
01:08:37
Speaker
sort of helping them out with where to start and um how to go about like getting out into the bush and going hunting with a rifle and then after you get an animal processing it from start to finish and learning how to use the whole thing the whole animal and um then we'll do a separate workshop on turning hides for those animals as well. I can't imagine there are too many other ways to experience such a thing. So thank you so much for cooking these workshops and retreats and and rites of passage for people up and holding that space which I know is a is a huge endeavor and something that you would be working on a lot behind the scenes and in yourselves. So thank you not only for sharing some of your spirit of wildness on resilience today but also the work that you do in the world. I love watching you from afar and hopefully can meet you in person one day.
01:09:31
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. My pleasure. That was Eva and Will of wild beings, such wonderful humans. And by now you probably know the drill, all of the things that you need to engage with them and their work and anything we may have mentioned offhand, you will find in the show notes. So for anyone who's been listening to that little track that I've put at the start and the end of the show, you can hear it right now beneath this audio or above this audio, according to my edit suite.
01:10:04
Speaker
if you've been thinking what bird is that or what birds are they or if you know what birds they are so you're obviously a little bit of a bird nerd next week's episode will honestly probably be your favorite episode it's almost Fuck, it's really hard to say that it's my favourite interview but it is up there. I got to chat with Andrew Turbill and he actually works a lot with those folks you just heard from, Eva and Will of Wild Beings. He is a complete and utter and unashamed bird tragic and so funny. He's bringing the spirit of bird language to this show and also
01:10:42
Speaker
bad language. We swear like sailors, we really have a great time laughing, making all of the puns. And what is especially great about that interview is that Andrew is actually talking about his intentions for 2025. These are exceptionally arduous bird-related challenges that he has set himself as a naturalist, as a bird educator, as a deep ecology guy, like he is across so many different things. So we get to hear his intentions for 2025 and that actually means we really burrow into his logic, his thinking, his mind and his heart, which is always what I hope for this show and is especially interesting
01:11:24
Speaker
to anyone who's interested in birds, but also in that beautiful wild world that surrounds us and encompasses us. So please come back next Monday for that really gregarious chat with Andrew Turbill, and I hope you love this episode. And as always, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. I will catch you next week.