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Love in the Time of Collapse with Jordan + Catie
719 Plays5 days ago
It's a Jordan + Catie double bill for the Season Four finale 🎊
Join us for a fireside D&M as two humans just tryna digest the microplastic casserole of modernity… and make something better.
You’ll hear about my secret storytelling anxiety, Jord’s new award nominated film, my other boyfriends, law breaking, roadkill harvesting, why we took the Good Death-i-vore Pledge, sacred hunting, how to really give a shit about your ecosystem AAAAAND turning baboozlement into useful skills.
⚠️ A warning for sensitive ears, we swear a lot in this episode.
LINKY POOS 🧙♀️
Jord + Happen Films' newest doco ~ The New Peasants
The New Peasants Australian screening tour (come meet us!)
Film ~ In My Blood It Runs
Film ~ Honeyland
Best show ever ~ Bruce Parry’s TRIBE
Richard Telford’s DIY mini biochar kiln
Dylan Graves’ biochar podcast ~ Char Chit Chat
The Do with Su zine ~ Su Dennett + Catie Payne (inc. the Good Death-i-vore Pledge)
🧡🧡🧡 Support Reskillience on Patreon 🧡🧡🧡
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Transcript
Podcast Season Finale Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey folks, this is Katie and you're about to hear the final episode of Reskillians for this season and the last one recorded with love and gratitude in Jara Country for a while.
00:00:10
Speaker
And that's because Jordan and I are heading off on a film tour up the east coast of Australia, and I'm going to pounce on the opportunity to record lots of conversations on the road. So keep your potatoes peeled for a new season of the podcast in, i don't know, about a month's time.
Introducing Special Guest: Jordan Osmond
00:00:27
Speaker
Today is a special episode with my amazing fella, Jordan Osmond, that is both ridiculous and revealing. It's a chance for us to share a slice of our inner worlds and everyday habits as two people just trying to digest the microplastic casserole of modernity and make something better.
00:00:46
Speaker
You'll hear about my secret storytelling anxiety, George's new award-nominated feature documentary, my other boyfriend's, law-breaking, roadkill harvesting, what happened when we took the good death of all pledge, sacred hunting, how to really give a shit about your ecosystem,
00:01:03
Speaker
and turning your biggest struggles into your greatest gifts.
Storytelling and Podcast Reflections
00:01:07
Speaker
Just a warning for sensitive ears, we swear a lot in this episode. And one thing I forgot to mention during the conversation when I was talking about our home biochar system is that we were inspired by Richard Telford of Abdallah House, who is also a patron of the pod. I've linked Richard's blog post on how to make your own mini biochar kiln in the show notes.
00:01:28
Speaker
Well, this is probably the most fun I've ever had on Reskillians, and I hope it tops up your joy tank too. Thank you so much for tuning in. These episodes have now been downloaded over 65,000 times and streamed who knows how many. And as someone who doesn't give a fig about the numbers, I've got to say it's pretty wild knowing there are so many kindred weirdos out there.
00:01:48
Speaker
And I can't wait to meet a few of you on our travels. Here's my fireside conversation with Jordan Osmond of Happen Films. Enjoy. Bitch!
00:02:01
Speaker
Reskillians. Hang on, I'll do that again. Reskillians. Hey, this is Katie, and you're listening to Reskillians. No, you're tuned in. Fuck. We don't just listen, we're tuned to this station.
00:02:20
Speaker
Hey, this is Katie and you're tuned into Reskillians, a podcast about the hard, soft and surprising skills that'll help us stay afloat if our modern systems don't. Wow, impeccable.
00:02:34
Speaker
I'm an avid listener. First time caller. No, third time. You're a repeat offender. Am I back by popular demand? Well, nobody's explicitly asked. the emails that keep coming in.
00:02:45
Speaker
When's Jord going to be back on? It's just to spice up our relationship.
00:02:51
Speaker
It is the third time that you have joined me on Riskillians. You were so well spoken in our first interview.
Public Speaking and Storytelling Anxiety
00:02:59
Speaker
I was much taken aback because you're quite a quietly spoken, you're not an obtrusive individual.
00:03:05
Speaker
So when you let it rip on the mics that first day, i was pleasantly surprised. I was trying to impress you. Did it take it out of you? It was a big day.
00:03:16
Speaker
It's a big interview. Although you you had to edit that a bit. You made me sound a lot better than I thought. i would Do you realize that you sound better than you do? Because it's very hard to get a gauge on how we present.
00:03:29
Speaker
People often think they they sound so much worse than they actually do.
00:03:34
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like I don't speak particularly well. And then, I mean, I don't do that many interviews, although I should get into the flow of it now. But um yeah, don't know. I feel like I'm not a speaker. I like to let other people speak. That's why I film other people.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, you're behind the camera. And I'm behind the camera, yeah. But you do have a lot to say. And likewise, like you we talk a lot and you share a lot of opinions that you don't get to share on the podcast when it's when you're in interviewer mode.
00:04:03
Speaker
you're not it You're not taking over from the guest, so playing that host role, you don't get to share as much as you normally do, or that I get to hear. It's definitely only because I feel safe and easy and free to be my freaky self around you and people like you. When I was out riding my bike up and down the hills, getting ready to sit down and have this conversation, I was thinking about telling a few stories of our life and the neighbourhood and how difficult that actually is for me and reflecting on being raised in a family where...
00:04:37
Speaker
ah How do I put this politely? Certain people had the talking stick and other people, me, didn't. If you were little and unimpressive and a bit shy, then
Art of Podcast Hosting
00:04:50
Speaker
it was really hard to say your piece and it would be really pressurised. And as a small child, being part of that or within that dynamic was really terrifying because you obviously want to participate and be seen and heard, but you're waiting for that moment to be able to say one little peep and then...
00:05:08
Speaker
there's all of this pressure mounting like a pressure cooker. And when it's finally, there's finally a little opening and it's your turn. your words come out backwards and inside out and that only affirms the fact that you shouldn't have said anything anyway.
00:05:22
Speaker
So I think that I'm not alone in having this experience of being raised in a big personality dominated family where then telling a simple story could seem like a massive mountain to climb.
00:05:35
Speaker
And then in society, I noticed that a lot of people ah pretty shit at listening. and are really good at talking. And if you're someone who likes to listen, sit back, then you obviously start to learn that.
00:05:50
Speaker
Maybe it's not your place to tell a story. And to wrap up my point, telling stories is... Well, apparently it's like we remember a story, something crazy, like six times more than we remember information.
00:06:05
Speaker
Or it's like a huge percentage more stickability if you tell a story than just dispense a piece of information like a pez, like just spew it out. And so I think telling little stories from our day and weaving stories from the natural world into...
The New Peasants Documentary Insights
00:06:17
Speaker
into our everyday conversations is really important, but there is some fear in that for me. And that's obviously expressed as podcast host where I get to ask people rather than respond. And I have not been asked very often to be on the other side, like the the guest side, that a couple of times. And I've actually said no because ah haven't practiced yet.
00:06:42
Speaker
It's such a skill, I think, to tell a story well, and I don't, but like, orally tell a story well, and I don't really have that skill. I think I get too nervous. Like, the worst thing is, you know, with a group of people, when you the floor's yours to tell the story, and then ah everyone's looking at you, and i just kind of trip up on my words, because I feel like...
00:07:01
Speaker
I know maybe it's some like social anxiety stuff, but I just feel like the pressure of um everybody paying attention to me. So I can't kind of share as naturally as I do like in my head.
00:07:13
Speaker
And even in like situations being interviewed, like like I said, I don't do a lot of interviews, but there are periods throughout like my filmmaking career where I have done more with film releases and stuff.
00:07:25
Speaker
And when that comes up, I kind of have to get back into that zone and get comfortable with it again. But it's not not natural for me. But I do actually enjoy it. um really like you know I like kind of sharing thoughts and having discussions. and Maybe it's easy to hold yourself to the same high standards as the other people you listen to on podcasts and things. like These world-class thinkers and intellectuals that I look up to or I read online or listen to. It's like, oh, they're so articulate and their ideas are so sharp. and it's like I want to express myself like that. but
00:07:59
Speaker
It's such a hard thing to do. That's why I feel like you know filmmaking is more my thing. I like more so sharing through other people in a way, I suppose.
00:08:11
Speaker
I'm hearing the fire at the moment. You might be hearing that it's ticking as it warms up. We've just put another log on it. So that might be... in the audio a little bit hope that's okay we're just sitting in front of the fireplace in our living room recording this so it's not exactly a sterile audio space but you know I like it like that and yes George I had a ah lot of things popping up in my head when you're speaking which is another strange part of the interview process where i really want to be present and deeply listen to what the other person's saying, but I'm also trying to plan ahead to ask a good question, ask the next question, have some kind of logical unfolding of this story that we've only got an hour to really sit with.
00:08:55
Speaker
And I'm curious about what would happen if I completely surrendered to the deep listening and let what ah wants to arise arise versus having that little preparatory time where I might actually miss something you're saying because I'm plotting the next question. But yeah, I mean, I'm fascinated by what it means to draw a story out of someone as well and how I can best do that for for the listeners and for the person being interrogated, which is you today a little bit, but maybe it's a co-interrogation.
00:09:28
Speaker
ah do want to talk about... the film that you have coming out and the speaking that you're alluding to, which will be tethered to that. I had so many thoughts on my bike ride just now. It's amazing. They just come flooding in. It's like as soon as my circulation gets pumping, so do the ideas. It's like they're stuck in my big toe and I have to get them up to my brain. should do a podcast on bikes.
00:09:49
Speaker
We could use live mics and you just hear like the clinking and the gravel crunching. That sounds like it would be a nice experience. You'd hear me puffing the whole time probably. Oh, I just want to... Nah, you're fit.
00:10:02
Speaker
You're fit as to look at. in the UK sense? Yeah. Fit and you know it. um On the speaking thing, when we hear people speaking with such grace on the airwaves, it is a little bit of a deception because these people actually have a craft of presenting a message and there are so many ways to hone and massage and...
00:10:27
Speaker
whittle that message down to this perfect amazing word carving that just appears and they say it you know 50 times in a year because they're just doing the rounds so ah don't want to take away from how incredible they are as speakers but highlighting the fact that it's actually ah skill that people develop to speak in that succinct and clear way but then also as someone who edits this podcast as well i cut out I cut stuff out to tighten it up and I don't want it to be contrived, and I don't want to erase the natural pauses and affectations of a person, but there's something, there's some middle ground where cutting a little bit of the fluff actually reveals more beauty and more meaning. So also just so you know,
00:11:17
Speaker
I will be editing this, I'll be editing my my part of this more heavily than yours. That's a thing. And it's it is always contrived and we are always presented with something that isn't true to life.
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah. Which is for the better, because it's the same with like editing a film. you know It's our job, suppose, to make... Well, you're you're telling the story and you're trying to tell that in the clearest way possible and cut away all the fluff to like help that shine, help that be elevated.
00:11:47
Speaker
What was your approach to that in The New Peasants, which is the film that is so close to being birthed. I mean, it it has been birthed, but it's it's starting to... I mean, what stage is that is it at if it was a baby?
00:12:01
Speaker
It's like... crowning? Oh my god. Is that what it's called where the head's like coming up? Holy shit! Wow! Graphic.
00:12:13
Speaker
No, but it's out there and people are watching it behind the scenes in terms of it's getting ready to be screened. So people have to make sure that it isn't. Okay. The analogy then is the baby's been born, but only the mum and the immediate family um seen it.
00:12:28
Speaker
yeah, yeah. It's still lockdown. The rest of the people haven't come into the room yet. and So the film is nearly, it's nearly going to be premiered. Yeah. That's such a nearly. Okay. Whatever. It's almost out. Yeah.
00:12:41
Speaker
and you're going to be touring it so and you're going to be talking about it a lot and it's very exciting because it's with our mutual friends artists family and i'll let you do the elevator pitch which i'm sure you've been working on but i did want to ask you just on that editing roof about your approach to this film in particular and whether that was different to your previous films Yeah.
00:13:02
Speaker
So I suppose the elevator pitch is, it's a different pitch for like every audience. So I'm still like, this is the best audience. This audience gets it and have probably heard, you know, half the people listening from me know artists as family. And so that, that helps.
00:13:16
Speaker
Yeah, so The New Peasants is our new feature-length documentary. Yeah, we haven't made a feature film for like six years. Living the Change was our last one.
00:13:27
Speaker
It's been a year and a half in the making. So when I was living with Artis' family in Daylesford for five months, i shot this film. um And so that was a really unique situation because I don't normally live...
00:13:41
Speaker
for five months with the subject of a film but it kind of allowed this film to happen you know when I was living in the little cabin on their property they could just run over and say hey this is happening do you want to film it and pick up my camera and just go go shoot it rather than having to plan everything so meticulously and cram it all into like ah set amount of days of shooting so crowning just can't hold it in any longer I was like, what are you looking at? What's your face doing? My face is contorting. Okay.
00:14:20
Speaker
ah Yeah, so the ah suppose what the film is about, The New Peasants, is about a family's transition away from industrial, modern consumer culture to something more sustainable, simple, and earth-connected.
00:14:37
Speaker
That's like the log line, I suppose you'd say. That sounds amazing. Yeah. So, you know, over the last 20 years, artists' family, Megan Patrick have been, yeah, slowly on this journey of detaching themselves from a lot of aspects of industrial society, in particular in the realms of food, medicine and energy.
00:14:59
Speaker
which we cover in the film. The film is a portrait of their life and their daily practices and you know showing what ah more earth-bonded way of life can look like.
00:15:10
Speaker
And overall, it's an inspiring film. it's you know The idea is to show people ah glimpse of what a different way of living can look like and not in a way where...
00:15:21
Speaker
Everyone should emulate this, but I think there's a lot of inspiration that can be drawn by how they live. And I know personally, I've been so inspired by them over the years. And, you know, we've made three short films with them. The first one was in 2017 and together they've got like 5 million views. So, you know, a lot of other people...
00:15:41
Speaker
find their story so inspiring as well. And so with this feature film, it's just a, it's a deeper dive and it's tells kind of the whole story of this transition back from when they first met and bought this property. And it's a, it's ah an uplifting story that also doesn't shy away from some of the hard stories in their life as well, that kind of informs what they do. So I'm really proud of it. I think it's the best thing that we've made. and um,
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah, I can't wait to actually get it out into the world. It's premiering on July 27th at the Melbourne Documentary Film Festival. So it's amazing to be part of a festival for a premiere. Only a very small handful of people have have seen it at the moment, but the feedback has been really positive. So yeah, I'm excited to see sit in the cinema and yeah watch it with hopefully a ah full crowd there.
00:16:33
Speaker
And you missed the part where you got to gloat about its achievements. What achievements? Well, it's a possible achievement. It's already an achievement in my eyes. ah The film has, at this festival, it's been nominated for the best environmental documentary and audience choice. Will you have to make a speech?
00:16:53
Speaker
Or you just get up and take the check and leave?
Filmmaking Techniques and Authenticity
00:16:56
Speaker
I don't there's a check. No, i think it's I think it's pre-recorded and they show it on the closing night of the festival, which I won't be at. so yeah Hopefully they'll let us know.
00:17:07
Speaker
Well, congratulations. I was so chuffed to hear that. Yeah, thanks. I hesitate to say I'm proud because that sounds quite patronizing. And my girlfriend and I were sitting in the lounge room earlier today talking about new peasants and then how many millions of views your films in general have gotten over the years, like 67 million or something.
00:17:27
Speaker
And then we just sat there for a minute and looked at each other and were like, oh, he's kind of a big deal. And then I felt a little bit scared of my very own partner.
00:17:38
Speaker
I am not a big deal. And Jordan's six foot five for anyone who doesn't know. So I do look up to him. ah suppose in that way, I'm a tall deal. You are my idol.
00:17:50
Speaker
And then the question is what choices you made in this film creatively and editorially and directorially and sartorially. Is that relevant? That's what they wore. Did you did you dress them?
00:18:03
Speaker
Anyway, what different things did you do this time around? You said it was maybe your favorite film so far or the one you're most proud of. So yeah, talk to us a bit about the behind the scenes.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think in the filming of it, while I was shooting it, I was trying to let life unfold a lot more and just capture a lot more footage than usual and just be okay with like filming for half a day and only getting a couple minutes of footage that was usable. The luxury of time, there were 30 days that i was shooting, not full days, but like on 30 days that was filming happening.
00:18:36
Speaker
And normally it's like three for a short film. So just being able to have that time... could just like let things unfold and capture some natural interactions with the family and the daily practices and what life looks like.
00:18:50
Speaker
You know, i love documentaries that are like more fly on the wall, kind of observational, that style. it's It's not an easy thing to do. how How does that happen? How do you see these? Like I see these documentaries and they're just like up in the face of someone as they're They're concentrating and it's like there's no one there. There's no no one else in the room. And it just boggles my mind.
00:19:09
Speaker
I could never be at ease with a camera up in my grill. Well, that's the thing. It's like, I don't think you can ever be... It's never fully natural having a camera in the room and the person being filmed never fully forgets it. But I think definitely if you're just coming in for a day, shooting something and then leaving, it's a different dynamic than...
00:19:27
Speaker
If you lived with somebody, you know, I'm thinking of the doco In My Blood It Runs. That's the more fly on the wall style. I don't think there's actually an interview in it per se, but I think that filmmaker lived with them for months.
00:19:41
Speaker
And I think that's part of the art of those films is... just blending into the background and being so common that it's like, oh, there's that person with the camera, you don't think too much about it and then you can capture those natural moments. But, you know, any film, as soon as you bring a camera into the room, it changes things, and, you know, it does... It is an art form, it's not like a pure representation of life, but you can try to get as close to that as possible. And I tried to incorporate some of these elements while filming to make it less...
00:20:13
Speaker
planned and less rigid of here we're filming this now and then we're moving on to this because that's what's so beautiful about artists family's life one of the things is that there are so many kind of hands-on practices that they're involved in day to day whether it's like harvesting apples and then spiralizing them and then putting them on drying racks and gathering firewood in the forest i know there's there's so many like so much visual richness in that and just to be able to observe that is really nice and not have talking the whole time. I think that's something maybe in the early days of our films was there was a lot of dialogue and a lot of interview and I'm feeling less and less trying to pack things full of talking and just kind of, yeah, observe. Just seeing some of those practices. Honeyland is another film that is mostly that observational style that I watched again while I was filming this and yeah, i was trying to
00:21:06
Speaker
used that as a bit of inspiration so just the rapport I have with Meg, Patrick and Woody you know that that year is what seven year kind of relationship with them that friendship gave me i suppose a different kind of access and a kind access path
Film Tour and Audience Interaction
00:21:24
Speaker
comfortableness you literally filmed them naked in the plunge pool yeah yeah so like they were so comfortable sharing like yeah in particular like ah really hard story for their family is in this film and that wasn't something that we thought was going to be a part of the film at the beginning but during the filming you were just digging around for drama you're like what can I dredge up to make this a sensation well I did want something that that I mean that's why having something that is a bit
00:21:59
Speaker
It's not drama, but it's like, ah it's a more raw human side of a story is important, I think. Because I didn't want it to just feel like, oh, look how great their life is. Everything's so amazing. And you can do this too, this like fully positive thing. Because that's not realistic. And that's not like my experience of life. It's not always awesome. There's ups and downs. And like to be able to show that on screen of like, these people are real humans.
00:22:24
Speaker
They're exceptional in a lot of ways. And like they're, Not everyone can live like that and not everyone needs to, but like they have hard times like the rest of us. And yeah, having that in the film kind of counteract or it provides a nice balance between like the positive, uplifting, overall kind of inspiring-ness of the film.
00:22:45
Speaker
I hope that was the intention of having that in there. Yeah. I think you're ready to speak about this in the public eye. You've got, you've really got this down. Oh, thanks. It's really, it sounds awesome.
00:22:57
Speaker
That's helpful. and I'm just talking to you. Can kind of forget the microphones are there. But yeah, we'll be on the radio in couple of weeks in the studio. So that'll be an interesting experience.
00:23:10
Speaker
Okay, I have one more question about yeah the new peasants going on this tour and showing up in a really energy intensive way, I suppose, for someone who, like you said, is behind the camera most of the time, is in the edit suite, is having a quiet life at home, what are the personal challenges that you're going to be coming up against in touring film?
00:23:30
Speaker
And bonus question from Katie is... How do you back yourself enough to say, hey, this film is worth, my creation is worth taking to cinemas across the country? Like that in itself is a really beautiful statement of commitment to your craft and to the story of Megan, Patrick and Woody.
00:23:51
Speaker
How can you help people who might not have that confidence? Yeah, so the first point you're making, yeah, about like leading up to the tour and stuff, I think screening films in person is like my favorite thing to do, which is kind of weird because I don't like large social gatherings normally.
00:24:12
Speaker
And I don't like being the center of attention either. While I am part of the focus of the evening, i'm not it's not me standing up on the podiums speaking for an hour. It's different.
00:24:24
Speaker
like We're there to serve the film. The film is the focus and you know I'm there doing a Q&A at each of these screenings and half of them with Meg, Patrick and Woody, which is going to be amazing because... Like when they're there, like the film is to uplift their story and I feel like with the screenings I want to uplift them as well. Like they're the more interesting people in the Q&A than me. I beg to do for.
00:24:47
Speaker
There might be that odd question or like... But I want them to be the focus. And I'm comfortable with that. Like, I don't ah don't want to be, like, the the center of attention.
00:24:59
Speaker
I know. But I like having, i suppose, that that space to kind of to share. And, you know, it feels really good when there's a lot of people sitting in the room. and They say nice things about what you made and they're engaged. and There's just such a special energy compared to just posting something online, which has its own benefits. Not everything can be released in a cinema, but you know I'll be nervous before each screening, especially this first one where like no one outside this small group has seen it. So there's those's nerves of like, I think it's good, but what will the wider world think?
00:25:33
Speaker
But I suppose like with any creative thing, you just kind of have to trust that If I'm on this path and I feel like it's good, then it mustn't be too bad. Yeah, it's funny with like any creative thing, you've got the expectation of what something can be and then what you've what you created.
00:25:50
Speaker
you know like My expectations for like a lot of what I do is probably like ridiculously high and sometimes I feel like, oh I don't meet those ridiculously high expectations.
00:26:01
Speaker
And so like you know each time you make something, you can close that gap a little bit more. And so like I feel like with this film, the gap has been closed a little bit more from like the last film, from like what we ended up with versus like the expectation.
00:26:14
Speaker
Because especially with documentary, you can't control... You can control certain amounts of the process, but you can't... You're filming life, so you can't just write the script to suit what's going to be the perfect ending or this perfect element here and there.
00:26:30
Speaker
You just do your best with what you've got, and that's why... That's why I like it as well. Like, having unlimited options of just writing anything seems scary. Yeah, I suppose I have a quiet confidence that people are going to like it just based on, like, past feedback of things. And so I'm, like, writing on that. I'm also expecting people to to not like it as well in certain situations. Like, there's a handful of things in this film that people might not like because that's not how...
00:26:54
Speaker
they live or they've got opinions on that and that's great i hope they those people can turn up and contribute to a discussion about that like for you know for example like eating meat there's a short piece in the film about that and the family's approach to meat and like i was saying earlier it's not like the film is saying everyone has to do this it's more like here's what this family does and why but yeah people won't like it and that's kind of hard to hear sometimes but I don't know, to not have any negative feedback means like never putting anything out there, so you just have to like be okay with it and hope it's not...
Documentary Impact and Controversial Topics
00:27:30
Speaker
I mean, so far it's never been the majority, one out of every hundred comments or something.
00:27:37
Speaker
But yeah, it's exciting and scary and fun. If you had an enchanted stick of willow that you could take to the screenings with you and wave in the direction of the audience...
00:27:51
Speaker
that would generate some kind of impact or help people take exactly what you were hoping that they would take from the film. Okay, this is sounding like a very psychopathic willow stick.
00:28:05
Speaker
But like what would be your ideal resonance like from this film? Maybe it's just like... giving people a sense that they're kind of not crazy if you're wanting to do something different or like giving a sense of possibility that there's a different way to live.
00:28:23
Speaker
It's not even like you have to do any of the practices that are in the film. It's more like... Here's a different way of being in the world. A lot of people probably don't, you know, don't have a Megan Patrick in their community to look to and say like, whoa, you guys are far down that journey. That's awesome. I want to go that way and take a step towards it. So I'm hoping that people see that and go.
00:28:47
Speaker
Well, that's pretty radical. I'm not going to do that tomorrow, but there's like there's an inkling there of something to move towards. There's a different way of being in the world that isn't based on consuming and being disconnected from the things that make our lives possible, you know?
00:29:05
Speaker
Just had to take a break to put the chickens to bed, and we're back. And we collected our buoy. And the buoy Wattlesworth. And Wattlesworth is? Our son.
00:29:16
Speaker
And? He's a cat. And? He's got one eye. He's got one eye. So he came with the house, and this is a different story. I don't think we have time to tell this story today, but there was a cat on the property that we now inhabit, and the cat is probably the spirit of every single owner of this property past, we think, because he's very shamanic, and he's missing an eye, and nobody knows how he lost his eyeball.
00:29:39
Speaker
But he doesn't seem to mind. He's big. He's fucking, he's getting bigger by the day. He's having a gross burp. Right now he's sitting next to me, intimidating me to give him more food. He's going to start doing little bites.
00:29:52
Speaker
He's a biter. um Actually, this, everything is, everything is coming together in one node in my mind around kangaroo.
00:30:04
Speaker
And I'm thinking of kangaroo because we feed the cat kangaroo. And I have a question for you, George. which is when you do something illegal, can you talk about it? Because Michael Pollan wrote that book, How to Change Your Mind, and in it he goes on all these illicit drug trips and then dissects those experiences.
00:30:22
Speaker
And I want to talk about like scavenging roadkill, but it's illegal to eat native animals, isn't it? No, but don't think it's legal to harvest roadkill.
00:30:33
Speaker
So, but people talk about doing that. what are they Yeah, well, it's like rappers talking about taking drugs. They're like, they don't get arrested. but all like people saying how they've got a composting toilet in their house. It's like, that's not legal. You know, you just kind of choose to talk about that. and I mean, I suppose it's so unlikely that anybody, like who's going to have a problem with that to then like, so you're talking about the kangaroo that we harvested that had been hit by a car.
00:31:01
Speaker
Yeah, so I want to talk in multiple directions around the kangaroo that we harvested that was hit by a car. And then I thought, well, if that's so bad, it can be an allegory for the society that I want to live in, but it's just a story.
00:31:17
Speaker
So the story is we harvested a roo that our friend had hit. Didn't mean to, obviously. And side note, I think roadkill is just this massive tragedy and I don't know the stats, but there are just unfathomable numbers of animals killed because of the way that we move around in this world. And then to put some restriction on how those animals can then be at least funneled to some useful end, like...
00:31:52
Speaker
meat for humans that then we can take the pressure off the industrial system of agriculture and cattle and i just have such a massive problem with the lack of inspired action around both the resource that is roadkill but then the upstream reason that we have so much roadkill but as it stands there's a fuckload of roadkill and you can eat it Yeah.
00:32:20
Speaker
Right? Well, yeah, and I think this comes to the idea that just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily mean it's like morally wrong. There's a lot of things that are illegal for a good reason, but, you know, then people speaking out against...
00:32:37
Speaker
You people, like your drug example, people talking about their magic mushroom trips or whatever, it's like, I would argue that that's not morally wrong if an adult decides to take magic mushrooms. And, you know, you can choose to put that out there and kind of normalize it more. So I suppose, like in The New Peasants, there's a shot of a roadkill kangaroo being harvested. so And I feel good about that being in there to show, to kind of normalize that and like the fact that we're talking about it now.
00:33:05
Speaker
Like it's a thing that I believe is the right thing to do because you're, you know, this animal has died. Let's use that life for its highest purpose. Like it would get eaten on the side of the road most likely by birds and the soil. But, you know, it's one less farmed animal that needs to be bought if that's if that's then harvested. So it feels like it's honoring the animal personally.
00:33:31
Speaker
Yeah, well, I've got my pad, my post-it pad, and you know I like to put air post-its on on points that we're making and and just do a little post-it for some side thing that maybe we can look at later or maybe it can just hang in the air. But the little post-it is, oh, how fascinating is my psychology? Because i think a lot of what we're talking about, building a parallel ah parallel culture, like what the new peasants is demonstrating, you actually have to be prepared to colour outside the lines, to break a few fucking rules.
Sustainable Living and Personal Choices
00:33:58
Speaker
And how fascinating when I... look at myself in these situations, even the way that i brought that point up is like, ah, I'm doing the wrong thing. I'm naughty.
00:34:09
Speaker
Like I'm so steeped in authoritarian, like top down control that I have to really push myself to break the rules, even though I think the rules stink.
00:34:22
Speaker
And post-it note, looking at how we feel when these things arise is really fascinating and just This also probably shouldn't shame myself for feeling that way because i've had a lifetime of being inculcated with that but i want to be able to deliberately and consciously factoral this This is reminding me of the other, like last week when you were harvesting sticks on the side of the road. Oh my God.
00:34:52
Speaker
I got scared harvesting fucking kindling on the verge because I thought a neighbor might come out brandishing a pitchfork. Like there are my sticks because that has actually happened to me. So all of this.
00:35:03
Speaker
You might think I'm nuts, but I actually have evidence to support a lot of my anxieties because, in fact, I have taken things off the verge before, like a pretty little flower, and an old woman has run down her steps in a nightgown being like, you little urchin, running after me.
00:35:20
Speaker
Of course I'm scared of old ladies and the man. Yeah, and but it's totally true we've got this, like, and I feel it too, close to this like, you don't want to do anything wrong. You don't want to break the rules because you might get in trouble. this It's this fear of getting in trouble by somebody. Well, there's massive repercussions, and if you're the wrong person, if you're the wrong colour person, if you're in the wrong place, if you're a fucking whatever, if you fit some description, it's massive.
00:35:46
Speaker
It's, like, very real. Yeah. Yeah, and that's like, ah yeah, there's a whole and other discussion about privilege and the fact that, like, can, you know, us harvesting roadkill, like, oh, what if it was somebody who wasn't white and, like, middle class? Like, us doing that and then, oh, that could be an easy news story in the media to, you know, you see stuff like this.
00:36:09
Speaker
You have to pick your battles, I suppose, based on, like, where you're at. But, yeah, with the with the roadkill thing, it's like, obviously, for us, that feels like the right thing to do. Yeah. So let's tell the story of that. Okay. Storytime, because we remember stories. We don't remember information. So well what was happening was we were hunkered down on the couch.
00:36:29
Speaker
After dinner in a nice little food coma watching our favorite, Bruce Parry. Shout out to Bruce. Bruce, my man, my second boyfriend, right? My third boyfriend is Cal Newport.
00:36:40
Speaker
You're my number one. You'll always be my number one. But Bruce Parry, if you haven't seen this insane and amazing and like legitimately high quality series on the BBC from the noughties...
00:36:52
Speaker
with a man named Bruce Parry, who's an adventurer and an ex-marine. He's not as obnoxious as he sounds. He's actually like a new age sensitive Bear Grylls. And he goes and lives with people living like a more traditional template in their culture, like in Africa or Porneo and West Papua, whatever. Like, so good. So anyway, let's not get distracted by Bruce.
00:37:14
Speaker
We were watching Tribe and a friend messages me and said, Hey Katie, do you want... A kangaroo. I unfortunately just hit one and it's down the road.
00:37:28
Speaker
Are you around? Okay, here's another post-it note. Decision making. around doing things that are kind of inconvenient and annoying but aligned with your values. Our values are not eating abattoir meat, reclaiming precious resources that may not be utilized.
00:37:46
Speaker
But in that moment I was really comfortable and I was enjoying my night. You were probably having a ginger beer. We're probably going to binge another episode of Tribe. And we had to look at each other and say, are you prepared to spend probably a few hours doing this?
00:37:59
Speaker
Yeah, what was it? It was like... night It was like 8pm at night. Cold winter's night. The fire was on. We got our boy Bruce going. The one-eyed cat was on your lap. Probably. So again, I'm really interested in these moments where there's a crossroads. It's like a crossroads moment.
00:38:17
Speaker
Not a big deal in terms of like a massive life moment. But it's a little moment that could actually take you in the direction you want or overtime in a direction... away from what you actually want. And all of these paths towards the life that I want to lead seem to be a little bit more rugged and challenging and fucking interesting.
00:38:35
Speaker
And so we had to say, yes, let's do that. I'm glad you were there because i was tempted to say no. I probably would have said yes, but you you were keen and I loved that. So for anyone who hasn't processed an animal before, it's actually no joke.
00:38:49
Speaker
Like it's quite a big operation if you want to do it right. i mean, you can hack something up with ah with a rock, but also if you want to preserve the hide, if you want to butcher it and have that meat not spoil, like there's a lot there's a lot involved.
00:39:03
Speaker
Yeah, we got this roux and brought it home and you have been learning very recently about hunting and processing animals so it was a really awesome way for you to hone that skill after dark with Without the right equipment.
00:39:20
Speaker
we've we've We've rigged something up to to process the kangaroo and it worked. yeah And so processing means meticulously cutting away the skin. That took ages.
00:39:31
Speaker
And when something has been hit by a car, you viscerally understand what that impact does. Yeah, you see it when you gut the animal. It was a bit smashed up. Yeah, yeah.
00:39:49
Speaker
So yeah, it did take a bit longer than probably what it would have otherwise. But we were able to harvest, I don't know, 10 kilos of meat, perhaps, and a beautiful skin.
00:40:01
Speaker
So it was really amazing because we have this beautiful skin, so that's in the freezer and we'll tan that at some stage. That also takes a bit of time. We got some back strap meat and leg meat.
00:40:14
Speaker
We got some meat for the cat, which was such a great windfall. And then whatever didn't go to those places went into a massive pot, which we put on the fire and cooked all day, like the rib cage and some of the bones and the more gummier meat.
00:40:31
Speaker
And that got slow cooked and fed to the chickens. And they've been really appreciating the protein. Their favorite meal is slow roasted roux at this point. And all the guts and bits and pieces went into a massive wood chip pile that will make incredible rich compost.
Biochar and Gift Economy
00:40:48
Speaker
Fabulous. Yeah. I felt really good about that. And I also just want to say we've got a little, we've made a little biochar kiln, which is It sounds um really impressive. It's just two cans stuck together, pushed together.
00:41:03
Speaker
And we can put that in our fireplace with bones or scraps that we don't have a use for that that are really hard and won't break down easily. And that creates biochar. which is like the leftover charcoal matter with all the gases and different things burned off. And it's, I'll post a photo of it. It's really beautiful. And that's going to be absolute gold when we're making seed raising mixes and to add to the gardens.
00:41:26
Speaker
And you might remember Dylan Graves from this podcast episode. or I'm going say episode 13 14. Yeah. fourteen Anyway, his episode went off because it was called Retire by 35. And I think people absolutely pounced on that. They're like, i want to know how to retire by 35. Dylan Graves is such a legend. He's a biochar guy and he has a podcast on biochar now.
00:41:49
Speaker
Anyway, we're inspired to make biochar because of him. And so the Rue lives on in so many different magical forms in our household. Yeah, and it's back to that point about making the, like, what's the highest use of this thing?
00:42:04
Speaker
It's like how chopping down a tree isn't necessarily bad. Probably the wrong tree is. But also, you can either chop down a tree and just burn it, or you could chop down a tree and make timber and burn some of it, you know.
00:42:17
Speaker
and it's the same with this rue of, like... Yes, there's no waste in nature and that roo would have decomposed on the side of the road, but there's enough plenty of other roos around doing that and we've been able to maximize the the potential for this resource.
00:42:33
Speaker
Well, just while I'm speaking at length and I really, really have burning questions for you about... hunting and that journey and how to be a new age sensitive hunter sexy guy. But i wanted to just bring in the fact that before this conversation I rode my bike around the town and I delivered that roux tail to our friend just down the road who loves making slow cooked things and she was going to make an amazing barley and vegetable soup with the roux tail.
00:43:01
Speaker
And there has been a virtuous circle happen from between our households of us randomly giving them stuff like tallow and the rutails and...
00:43:14
Speaker
I can't remember, herbal things. And they've given us leftover building stuff like paints and seeds from the garden and amazing friendship and all of those delightful things. And I love when I can feel virtuous gift circles gaining momentum.
00:43:31
Speaker
And it's almost like one-upmanship when you are in a frenzy of giving your neighbours things because they give you things and then you want to give them more things and sometimes it goes off in lots of different directions. But I think I'm experiencing that sweet gift economy emerging in our local area.
00:43:50
Speaker
I mean, it's probably already been here. It's just that we've only recently arrived. Also that roux became ah gift to our friends who are looking after us.
00:44:03
Speaker
I loved riding my bike down there and handing that over, knowing she'd make something so delicious. Nice. Yeah. Jordania, one more thing is that when we first moved to this little town, I remember going to lunch with the neighbors or an afternoon thing with the neighbors and that moment where they're bringing out all the food and then asking us, oh, are you vegetarian? Because there was meaty products on the table and we had to look at each other and think, what are we?
00:44:30
Speaker
What is the name for this thing that we've... decided to do because at that time we were doing the no abattoir challenge and I remember calling it the good death of all pledge when I did the do with Susan because Sudan is my original inspiration for a lot of things and she doesn't eat any meat that's gone through an abattoir which all meat for sale has to go through an abattoir Even chickens. I didn't know this.
00:44:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. don't know. I just assumed it was big animals. Oh, right. But yeah. No, it's just they really get your balls in a vice. So Sudanet doesn't eat any abattoir meat. What's the problem with an abattoir?
00:45:06
Speaker
What's the problem with Yeah. Yeah. Like for people who don't know what that is or what it looks like. Well, I suppose i haven't really spent much time in abattoirs. I have taken animals to abattoirs with farmers who I've been working you know working with.
00:45:18
Speaker
But my... When i What's the reverse anthropomorphize? If I put myself in the position of a cow who is living their life in a paddock, and I guess we all have different ideas of what the satisfaction levels of a cow living in a paddock is, but besides that...
00:45:39
Speaker
If I'm living my life and then one day i get shunted onto a truck, squeezed in with a whole bunch of cows that I may
Ethical Meat Consumption
00:45:50
Speaker
or may not know and everyone's shitting themselves because they're afraid, they have no idea idea what's happening, maybe it's a really hot day, you're on this loud belching diesel vehicle, you go a long, long way down the highway, you're thirsty,
00:46:06
Speaker
You see them on the highway. You drive past trucks with cattle and sheep and it's horrifying going to your death and they don't know that's coming but something's very wrong. Something's very wrong when all of your comrades on that vehicle, are their eyes are rolling back in their head in fear because that's just not a normal thing to happen to an animal.
00:46:31
Speaker
Who knows what it feels like? I don't... think it would feel very good. And then you're taken to this place where you're probably put in a holding pattern for those different lengths of time that animals can be kept there.
00:46:45
Speaker
And again, the conditions are probably not very nice. It's super close proximity with lots of other creatures that you don't have any relationship with, stressed to the max. And then you're giving you given unceremonious unceremonious
00:47:03
Speaker
death and I think that it would be very dependent on the people working there that day or the standard or culture within that abattoir. We've tried as best we can to kind of sterilize and homogenize that process so that oh it's quick and painless and every single animal goes the same way.
00:47:25
Speaker
But we don't We don't know that. It's not very personal, that's for sure. And it's definitely not like dying at home. Like, wouldn't you rather die at home than in a hospital or in a ah factory?
00:47:40
Speaker
So I think there's a lot of other arguments. for eating if you want to eat animals not eating animals that have been through that system because you know if you're looking from a human health perspective people are now looking into those stress hormones and what they do to the meat and what we take on from that and that's a human centric kind of perspective but it's enough for me to see the trucks on the road and smell the fear in that situation to feel like I don't want to be part of that
00:48:14
Speaker
Yeah. And I think it's important also to say that a lot of farmers realize this is a problem and don't like doing it and, you know, have the best practices on their farm and are regenerative and organic and all the rest and love the animals. But legally, they have to do this.
00:48:32
Speaker
And they have to put them on trucks. They have to go through abattoir to be legally sold in the shops. Well, just to anybody. So unless you're willing to kind of do things on the down low and not do it formally through a shop, this is the system we have, unfortunately.
00:48:49
Speaker
Yeah. And people are trying to change it, which is cool. But... Yeah, suppose what you're getting at is there's ways to avoid that entirely as well. Well, it hasn't been nearly as hard as what I thought. And a big part of the reason is because... just vegetarian.
00:49:06
Speaker
We just gave up meat altogether. No, because again, living rural facilitates the the no abattoir meat or the good death of all pledge.
00:49:19
Speaker
Wanting to eat animals that have had a more, a wild life or have been killed in situ in their paddock or have been gleaned or harvested from the side of the road.
00:49:31
Speaker
The ease of that is apparent in our context, in a rural context, I think very hard to do this in the city. Yeah. So acknowledging that as well. So we rocked up to our neighbours, little get to know you afternoon when we first moved in and we were like, ah we didn't actually meet from an abattoir and just waited for the sideways looks. And everyone was totally supportive and on board.
00:49:57
Speaker
And it has since emerged that, I mean, i feel like you have these conversations and people... care about the same stuff. It's not, it's not such a foreign or controversial topic.
00:50:12
Speaker
But, um, since then, I think we've done super well in not having abattoir meat. And I wonder if you'd like to talk about some of the ways that we're finding protein.
00:50:27
Speaker
Yeah, I suppose a big part of this being possible is we're eating rabbits that I hunt on on farms in this area.
00:50:38
Speaker
So this is just an abundant food source that the land is offering that... I don't know how many rabbits are in Australia, hundreds of millions potentially.
00:50:50
Speaker
If you have the means and know how to harvest them, then it's an amazing source of meat. So every time I go out, I can get three or four and that's, you know, we might have one or two week and that's part of our meat consumption. And it's also part of our, you scraps go to the cat and then the frames go to the chickens as well. So it's, and then we're even, you biocharring those bones and,
00:51:13
Speaker
I'm saving the skins because I want to make a blanket. and Yeah, it's been fun and it's been hard in ways, but it's ultimately very connecting and satisfying.
00:51:25
Speaker
Post-it note, Jord is not ah macho post a And I think that's almost one of the most important things to talk about is, you know, hunting is part of an old culture and maybe ah new old culture that we're trying to establish.
00:51:44
Speaker
But you're not part of macho domination trophy hunting culture. I mean, I don't want to kind of judge what anybody else does or their approach to hunting or whatever, but I'm not into guns. I'm not into, know, I'm not like kind of excited by them. I don't need a big collection of them. And, you know, there's kind of like shooting and then there's hunting.
00:52:09
Speaker
And I'm interested in hunting for self-sufficiency. Subsistence hunting. That's what I'm interested in. let's make it even longer, like ecologically sensitive subsistence hunting.
00:52:22
Speaker
That's what I'm interested in. And I know other people are doing it too. And I've, you know, I've got some amazing friends who are doing this as well. And it's so cool that, I mean, this has always been a thing, but I suppose it's the image of like hunting or firearms has a very negative effect. And I think I've probably had that view as well of like guns are bad and and they can be obviously in certain situations, but I think Australia has very good laws around it. And yeah,
00:52:46
Speaker
I think there's a like there's a really good culture of people who are hunting because they want to provide for themselves and their families. and I'm interested in doing this. you know I've only hunted rabbits so far. I would like to move into hunting larger animals like goats and deer.
00:53:05
Speaker
Not the cute goats though. not Not the milking goats at friend's place. In air quotes, feral goats. There's another post that we could come back to because I want to talk about this idea of like pest species and things.
00:53:19
Speaker
Personally, I feel like if I'm going to eat meat, then hunting is the best way that that can happen. And that's not to say i would never eat farmed meat again. And I think there are great ways to farm as well, regeneratively. And that needs to be part of our diet too, for those of us who choose to eat meat, because yeah not everyone can be hunters and not everybody wants to. But like personally, this is like a very personal journey. And I feel like it just aligns so well with my values and how I want to be in the world because
00:53:53
Speaker
I'm able to have a direct connection with this life that I'm taking to feed my own, to feed us. There's an accountability and a connection to that, which is hard.
00:54:05
Speaker
like And I like that it's hard. I don't want to be casual about taking something's life. And we're able to harvest species that are abundant and people killed call them pests, but they're...
00:54:19
Speaker
I think the term pest can be a bit problematic because I think it then... What's the word for dehumanizing in animal? It like de-animalizes the animal because it's isn't then easier to treat it badly of like, oh, that thing is...
00:54:35
Speaker
It's just a pest. Just a pest. It's not even a creature that has its own you know experiences and it's a living being. you can It's just a pest and will just like destroy them and eradicate them. and Such a war-like mentality. I know people get so venomous about it.
00:54:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think by calling something a pest or feral, yeah, it takes away its animalness. Like this is a living creature and you're by taking its life, you know, it's ah it's a big deal doing that.
00:55:02
Speaker
And i want to always be present to that and feel like, you know, what I'm doing is like honoring that animal and is doing it in the best way I can. So like if I'm having that direct connection with, in this example, hunting rabbits, I can do my best to do that to do that well.
00:55:18
Speaker
And I think it's the ultimate in terms of like animal welfare because there's no trucks.
Ecosystem Balance and Responsible Hunting
00:55:23
Speaker
In the ideal situation, it's bang. They're living a wildlife, fully wildlife, and then they're gone.
00:55:32
Speaker
Black. like There's no suffering in that. Or if it is, it's 10 seconds and that's also a part of life.
00:55:43
Speaker
Yeah. that we might also experience ourselves, but like we can limit that by having a connection with it. And so i think having the animals having their fully like wild experience is really important.
00:55:55
Speaker
And then, yeah, it being a very quick end rather than some drawn out thing that yeah trucking animals for hours to go through the abattoir system. And it's also, yes, these pest animals are hard on the land. like therere These animals were introduced to this country and have proliferated and do cause erosion, do compete with other species, you know do affect the forest. And like yes, these are all real things, but I think we can hold that as a truth, but also like respect that these are still living creatures.
00:56:29
Speaker
And so the fact that by taking rabbits, we're in a very small way reducing the number in particular areas. we know we're part of We're part of this like ecology of being the ah harvester of this. you know Rabbits are so abundant because there's not enough predator taking that prey. It's the same with anything in an ecosystem that would happen.
00:56:52
Speaker
And same with deer, you know, they're hard on the forest in ways too. And feral pigs, you know, they rip up the land and it's like, want to get away from thinking these things are good or bad. It's just like, we're here in this situation and we can harvest these animals and be that kind of predator species. And some, I suppose people would say like, we don't have to eat meat. You can just, you know, suppose leave the animals alone and...
00:57:16
Speaker
i i believe for me, and but you feel the same, like we, our bodies feel good eating meat and I don't feel like eating meat is a bad thing. It's like what humans have done since.
00:57:29
Speaker
It's like, that's our ecological experience. It's part of our ecological function. And it just feels completely natural, even though it can be hard at times and I don't enjoy killing rabbits. And it's not always nice being out in the cold and, you know, dealing with guts and things, but it just feels so right in the same way. just like the most natural thing because it's what humans have always done and will always do.
00:57:57
Speaker
seeing all of those rabbits not as a bad thing but as a huge boon if we have those skills to kind of harvest them mindfully and understand that we can take the pressure off the land by doing so meeting our own needs and let some other things regenerate and replenish that's the beauty of being a human when you can see you can hold a big picture like that and understand where to intervene and when to when to step back.
00:58:25
Speaker
But that feels quite impossible when we have everything oriented towards like set product, like set number of cows going to the abattoir every single day based on how many hamburgers people eat normally. And there's no, there's no responsiveness in that.
00:58:42
Speaker
But I do see that humans have such skill in acting sensitively they're if we had the opportunity to do that.
00:58:55
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And it's, yeah, it's, it's about that connection. It's a, we shouldn't just eat anything that moves. It's like, I think I feel this with fishing in particular, or this is like where it's become, the the feeling has become most present where this like thought occurred of like when I'm fishing, which is just another form of hunting,
00:59:21
Speaker
I have this direct relationship with the waterway, with the land that produces that fish. And so I have more of an incentive to for that land to be healthy.
00:59:35
Speaker
It's like, philosophically, want healthy waterways and I want lots of forests and I want, you know, thriving nature. But there's something about it. about it feels It feels different when it's like, oh I'm eating this thing that comes out of the river. I want this river to be clean.
00:59:53
Speaker
And then you're thinking of like, oh, I want the population of fish to be healthy. ah we need, you know, if we had, you know, if we live near an estuary or something like, you know, you could can get involved with with this and or maybe you don't even have to live near it. But like,
01:00:10
Speaker
you could work to improve that land because it's kind of in your own interest because you want that fish population to be sustainable and you want them to be healthy. It's like, it's not just a theoretical thing of like, I want the forest to be not cut down and be healthy.
01:00:27
Speaker
It's like, I'm directly a part of this thing and it just feels, yeah, it feels so natural. It's like, you know, Because so many things in our lives are outsourced and we don't have those connections and it's easy, you know, we don't know the harms that come from most of these things and so That's kind of like bringing it back to the new peasants. It's kind of the story of that and it's the artist's family's journey. It's like what's behind the things that make their life possible and how do we have more of a direct connection with it?
01:00:58
Speaker
And I think that's that's the key. It's like if you can see what damage is being caused by your way of life, then you can do something about it and do something that's less harmful or hopefully completely sustainable. I mean, I'm fascinated by motivation or lack thereof. And the biggest thing I can always rely on is self-interest.
01:01:20
Speaker
And that's a huge, it it'llmit it feels gross to say that, but that's how we that's how we work. We are motivated a practical sense, like in a like you're saying, when you can touch something, when you can interact with something, when you can participate in something, when it has a direct effect on you or the people you love or the land that your you're tending and connected to and that is spiraling around you and into you and through you. like that's where the motivation comes from. It's not theoretical. It's not philosophical. I think some people are better than others at...
01:01:55
Speaker
really giving a shit about things way way way way way beyond their direct zone their immediate situation what's going to impact them directly and i think it's very beautiful to have empathy across the oceans and to to be able to feel into something that's happening far far away but at the same time if you struggle to find that or sustain that Maybe the key, like you're saying, is to insource, try and insource a lot of these things that are supporting you because then going fucking care about them.
Connection with Nature and Personal Growth
01:02:30
Speaker
And all of those things are nature's bounty, nature's gifts, the oxygen, the water, the protein, like the the weeds, yeah the soil, like they all become the wealth and our bank balance. And you can't peel for that in the same way Yeah, and it's like in this this series with Bruce Perry that we're watching, these indigenous tribes, there's a common thread throughout a lot of the episodes where the forest has been cut down and their lives are threatened, to their livelihood is threatened.
01:03:03
Speaker
And they're kind of pleading with Bruce to, you know, how can we, how can the West, you know, do something about this in a way? And you see this with um you know other indigenous groups like in America, the Keystone Pipeline protests when that they went to the pipeline across the river and it's like they're dependent on the river so they don't want oil in it and it's like just that that passion and ah kind of like willing to die almost for the land is so inspiring and it's like, would I do that? Would I feel that? Because it's like,
01:03:39
Speaker
I don't directly know where the water comes from at the moment. And it just feels like, oh, it comes from somewhere. there's a reservoir around here, but it's like, don't have a direct connection with it. So would I die for that reservoir?
01:03:50
Speaker
No. don't know. There's just something powerful about touching the thing that you're dependent on, like knowing it so intimately. or acknowledging it even, you know, acknowledging that's where our life comes from.
01:04:02
Speaker
Yeah, just knowing that. Yeah. And it's not practical to have a connection with it. Like, I don't know where this laptop has come from, know, this microphone that we're using. We can't, unfortunately, know the impact of these things.
01:04:15
Speaker
But I think there's so much that we can. and And yeah, in that food, medicine, energy space, that's kind of three easy, more accessible ones, perhaps. How do you feel with the hunting thing?
01:04:27
Speaker
How do you feel about my hunting and being more connected with this process? Because, you know, you have been a vegan. mean, you're so... You love animals so much. i mean, so do I. but you feel so... know you're conscious around that. Every time there's like a little bug on the salad, you like carry it outside. And, you you're very... Yeah, very conscious about life.
01:04:51
Speaker
I suppose ah did talk about my feelings in the introduction to Pippa White's episode on death keeping where i was trying to, whether or not I succeeded, but trying to explore that space of some contradiction perhaps when i i fully believe that in our integrity,
01:05:20
Speaker
hunting in the way that you're doing, pursuing is the right thing. As you're saying, it feels right. But then the contradictory sensation of not wanting any animal to die ever.
01:05:36
Speaker
Disney fairy tale. Little Katie who loved animals more than people and would sit drawing them for hours and hours every day to the point that I could tell you every single point on the horse and the anatomical term for it because I was just obsessed with animals or creatures great and small.
01:05:55
Speaker
And i don't think I'll be giving up that contradiction anytime soon. Because as you see, every spider or bug that I find in the salad, I do my best to take it back outside because it's not a free-for-all. If you eat a rabbit, doesn't mean that every single other creature is insignificant and doesn't deserve another chance to express itself in living form.
01:06:22
Speaker
so that's why I do that because I want to be the giant sky claw that picks up the tiny gnat and flies it to safety because I would really appreciate that if I was caught in a rip or something and a giant hand came down from the sky like I'm gonna hop on sometimes but sometimes the bugs don't hop on I'm like dude fucking get on the finger I know it's weird This thing coming down from the sky presenting itself to you. I wouldn't get on the finger. Hop on, mate.
01:06:53
Speaker
um So I feel so grateful that you are putting in the hours and boy, it is some hours that you're putting in to this. activity which is it's not entertainment it's subsistence subsistence as you're saying it's kind of living into your potential as a human person and claiming that ancestry and for all of that it is an effort and you've got to research things and you've got to go outside in the blistering cold and walk up and down a hill in the pitch black So I'm absolutely alight with appreciation that you are doing that for us and our household because I've been a tourist before where I have killed rabbits, but it was to almost to challenge myself in that way. But it was quite tokenistic.
01:07:41
Speaker
I didn't feel that sense of homecoming to that. it was a real, it was confronting. So I appreciate that. you've taken up that role in our life and I want to be, i want to support that however I can.
01:07:58
Speaker
i acknowledge that maybe that's, that's not going to be my, my domain. And Sue Dennett talks a lot about domains and how, how comforting and functional they can be for people to have in different domains that they really gain their expertise and, and ownership of. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like you're saying, it's take it takes so much time to do it. It's like you can't do everything.
01:08:19
Speaker
like Even like growing veggies, having a pumping garden takes so much time. Is there enough time to hunt every week? Maybe not, you know? So yeah yeah, it feels amazing that we've got complementary skills and we can contribute to the household in different ways.
01:08:35
Speaker
I suppose my concession or pledge is that if someone offers me a rooster, I'm going to say yes, even though i will be stricken with anticipatory horror that I have to do the deed on that guy.
01:08:52
Speaker
And that's another part of the no habitoire story. When we announced that to our neighbours, wasn't much of an announcement. It was just a... It was just a statement saying, well, this is what we do or don't eat. But interestingly enough, that cast a ripple because in the following months,
01:09:08
Speaker
people offered me their roosters from this area knowing that I might be someone who, like the Grim Reaper, who could come for their unwanted roosters because one of our vegetarian neighbours had two roosters that were fighting and one of them was causing strife in the flock and she offered us that rooster and yeah, my meat contribution is going to be the roosters that come our way and trying my best to do that in a really respectful way. And by do that, I mean, kill them.
01:09:41
Speaker
feel like we use so many euphemisms, but yeah, I want to know that I can confidently take a rooster's life in a way that's dignified because it's, I find it really hard.
01:09:53
Speaker
So I'm not going to be a hunter, but I might be The poultry queen. You are the poultry queen.
01:10:03
Speaker
That rooster was very tasty. Holy shit. Because he was stealing all the food. He was so fat. so he was an Australop rooster for anyone who's interested in their breeds and how tasty they are.
01:10:14
Speaker
And he was just the fattest bird I've ever come across. Glistening yellow fat all around his organs. He would have been classified as metabolically... He had a metabolic issue.
01:10:27
Speaker
But he fried up good.
01:10:31
Speaker
so lock up your chickens. Hide your chickens. Katie's around. I don't. I don't enjoy that process. No, you did it very well. And I'm very impressed that you have that skill and I'm grateful for it.
01:10:45
Speaker
It is kind of harder. Like, yeah, you're you're doing that right there kind of with your hands. It's different than shooting something. And sometimes you still have to use your hands in that scenario. But yeah, it is different. And, you know, for someone who yeah is very sensitive and in that domain, it's yeah it's really impressive that you kind of just get on with it and do it.
01:11:10
Speaker
Maybe one last thing that I've been thinking about a lot lately. I know this is such an epic. This is like one of those Joe Rogan episodes. Let's go for three hours. Let's have our dinner. We're only at an hour and a half.
01:11:22
Speaker
just keep it rolling. What I've been thinking about lately is that I suspect there is a magic trick that we can all do where our biggest struggles or shortcomings as we see them can be spun in a way that reveals that they are in fact our greatest gifts.
01:11:42
Speaker
An example, one example, there are many because there are many struggles, but one example is I feel confused a lot of the time. I have a lot of questions about life. I think we're in a uniquely confusing time because we've just been set loose in a society that makes us feel like we're free, but we're actually incredibly imprisoned by, you know, we're enslaved in the debt machine and all of those things. So we think we have all of this freedom, but it actually, in many ways, is just a confounding and like,
01:12:14
Speaker
gaslighting experience where confusion reigns. you know We don't know what to do with our lives, we don't know what our purpose is, we don't know if God is real, we don't know whether God is money or whatever, status.
01:12:26
Speaker
And I've had these questions my entire life and felt overwhelmed by what to do with this one wild and precious life, as our dear Sarah Wilson says. But what I've realized is that that confusion is a portal that I can slither into like a reptile and go into the confusion portal and know that that is what drives the questions that are these conversations.
01:12:54
Speaker
So if I didn't have... such a discombobulated mind space maybe i wouldn't be motivated to quiz good people like yourself jord or all of the incredible guests that have been on this podcast which there are so many of them now but that's the fuel that struggle and suffering is the fuel to go deeper into these existential questions and i wonder if i'd be motivated in the same way if i didn't feel like I don't know what life's about and I'm not sure how to get it right or do it.
01:13:29
Speaker
Is anyone else feeling like this? so that's just one example. But I've been thinking lately of all of their the criticisms that I level up myself and I'm sure so many of us pick ourselves to shreds.
01:13:41
Speaker
And every single one of them, I can see how it serves me in a beautiful way or or I can choose to make that make that photo or use that material for some artistry or some good.
01:13:54
Speaker
The problem is the solution, am I right?
Audience Engagement and Podcast Growth
01:13:57
Speaker
Wow! You like that one, Dave? Wait, did Bill come up with that? Is that a Bill Mollisism? Bill's not listening. Or maybe he is.
01:14:06
Speaker
he could be He could be. He probably listens to Raskillians. Sorry, Bill. From beyond the grave. But does that make sense? No, totally. yeah it's Yeah, it's flipping it on its head and using it as a... Well, in this sense of curiosity that has brought forth this podcast.
01:14:23
Speaker
And I suppose I was thinking about it because of the the killing animals question that's been hanging over my head since I was a small child as well means that... I engage with that in a way that is genuine and takes me places.
01:14:39
Speaker
And again, it wouldn't be there if I didn't have that struggle, that internal struggle. Yay. Let's eat. Let's eat. But first, a small thing that i like that Katie does is when she excitedly comes up to me with her phone and says, I've got a new Patreon member.
01:15:02
Speaker
You get so excited every time someone joins a Patreon. It's very cute. and You're doing my Patreon ad for me? Yeah, I thought, why not? Because it's hard to do it yourself. it's hard you No one likes doing the Patreon or the donation kind of shout out. It's hard to ask for it yourself. So I thought...
01:15:20
Speaker
If anybody wants to create more of that joy K.E., then maybe signing up for Patreon is a way to do that.
01:15:31
Speaker
Or leaving a review. That's another one. Leaving reviews, that's but just as good. like you You check the Spotify reviews and comments. You can comment on Spotify now.
01:15:42
Speaker
ah It may be good for ages, but it's new to us. And the reviews on Apple, you read them all the time and are stoked to see people people's comments. And it's it's so different to like, you know, we put our films on YouTube and you get a ton of comments and there's a lot of feedback all the time, but podcasting is different. It's like you put it out there and then there's no comment thread.
01:16:04
Speaker
So like you love seeing those reviews and I love yeah seeing your reaction to them. So please leave Katie a review if you want to bring a little bit of joy. To her life.
01:16:17
Speaker
Oh my goodness, Jordan Osmond. ah it always... It's a pleasure having you on Riskillians. That's the formal part. And the informal part is I love doing life with you and I'm so grateful for you.
01:16:30
Speaker
And I hope that everyone listening can find such support and harmony with their loved ones to go through this crazy, crazy ride. I wouldn't want to be on the the downhill slope of peak oil with anyone else but you.
01:16:46
Speaker
Back at you.
01:16:49
Speaker
And also I will link a reverse shout out to all of the new peasants screenings because you only mentioned Melbourne, but there's actually, they're peppered across the East coast of Australia. hed Oh yeah.
01:17:02
Speaker
Okay. I guess I'll plug myself. Go on. The new peasants.com has a list screenings. has a website. like It redirects to the happenfilms site. The new peasants.com, cool. Yeah, if you like clean yeah URLs, then use the new peasants.com.
01:17:17
Speaker
Or you can go to happenfilms.com. Is there a dirty one? haven't The dirty one is happenfilms.com forward slash films forward slash the hyphen new hyphen peasants. That's the one.
01:17:28
Speaker
Or if you want me to print out the website and mail it to you, just send Katie message. Fuck, you've hijacked the podcast.
01:17:38
Speaker
But any anyway, thenewpeasants.com has a list of screenings in Victoria, new South Wales, and we're organizing a couple in Queensland, hopefully, as well. So we'd love to see you at a screening. Actually, yeah, that's a really good point. um I don't want to...
01:17:53
Speaker
make jord's tour about me but it is the unofficial reskillians tour because i will be there at all the screenings with jord yeah and i'll probably be scanning your qr codes if you want to come up and say hello it'd be really lovely to meet you oh yeah even if you don't care about this film but you want to meet katie you can still come to these screens but don't be a creep don't be a creep about it But yeah, we'd love to see all of you there. I know there's actually so many of you listening, which is wild. And I'm very grateful that you tune in every single week, every second week.
01:18:27
Speaker
What's my schedule? All right. Goodbye, everyone. Thanks, everybody. Bye.