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Natural Beekeeping Magic with Adrian Iodice
488 Plays4 days ago
Are bees a mammal in many bodies?
Why do conventional beehives leave bees cold, stressed and defensive?
How can beekeepers deal with varroa mite without any chemicals?
Do European honeybees even belong in Australia?
What is Australia’s best honey and where to get it?
All this and more in today’s GLORIOUS conversation with leading natural beekeeper Adrian Iodice. Such a special one folks 🐝🐝🐝
LINKY POOS 🧙♀️
The Beekeeping Naturally website
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Rascilians Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Rascilians! Hey, this is Katie and you're tuned into Rascilians, a podcast about the hard, soft and surprising skills that'll help us stay afloat if our modern systems don't. I am gratefully recording in Jarrah Country, central Victoria, where the baby rainbow bee eaters are hatching and the vegetables are wilting in this searing summer heatwave.
Personal Dependency on Coffee
00:00:31
Speaker
So I've been thinking about the parts of our lives, of my life that are less resilient than others, that represent a weak link in the daisy chain of needs. For me, one of these is caffeine. I'd be compost without it. And even though I tell people, oh, I only drink one coffee a day, what they don't know is that it's one of those stovetop pots designed to serve seven Italians.
00:00:55
Speaker
It's really quite bold being this reliant on a tropical crop when I live in a perishingly cold part of southern Australia, and sometimes I imagine just how annoying it would be to have to deal with the collapse of supply chains and civilisation with a pounding withdrawal headache. I know I'm not alone in my coffee addiction, though sometimes I feel lonely around here with so many Permies pretending to like peppermint tea.
The Honey in Coffee Controversy
00:01:21
Speaker
And like many coffee codependents, I have to have it in a highly specific way. Slow brewed on the stovetop with a teaspoon of honey and a splash of hot water, not to dilute it so much as to make it last as long as possible. The honey in coffee thing really divides people. Jod gives me shit for it all the time, like it's a crime against humanity.
00:01:43
Speaker
And there's definitely some truth to his accusation. Stirring a teaspoon of heat sensitive bee juice into piping hot single origin engine oil is probably a bad idea.
Bees and Ecosystems
00:01:52
Speaker
Killing the beneficial bacteria, fragile vitamins and delicate enzymes that make honey so medicinal. I also heard, this could have been from Sue Dennett actually, that a bee takes a very very long time to create a teaspoon of honey. Some say a lifetime. So here I am, guzzling a creature's life's work before 8am.
Meet Adrian Yodas
00:02:13
Speaker
Yes, I recognise that my coffee habit is problematic on multiple levels, but even if I gave it up, I'd still be utterly dependent on bees. Beyond honey on toast, we all rely on bees for the pollination of so many food crops, but also the health, diversity and living potential of ecosystems everywhere.
00:02:32
Speaker
Also, I just flat out don't want to live in a world where I can't watch worker bees make frantic love to a flamboyantly purple artichoke flower. Surely one of life's greatest simple pleasures. A person who studies bees is called a melatologist from the Latin word mel for honey, which spawns other wonderful words like mellifluous, meaning smooth and honeyed and musical. All the melanies I know are really sweet people too.
00:03:01
Speaker
Today's guest probably wouldn't dub himself a melatologist, even though he is one of Australia's leading natural beekeepers. He is both a student of and spokesperson for the bees, promoting a style of beekeeping that puts them first.
00:03:16
Speaker
It's Adrian Yodas of Beekeeping Naturally who I was lucky enough to learn from a few weekends ago and was doubly lucky to sit down with and record this interview in which he proceeded to pour out his heart, soul and teachings with mellifluous abandon. This episode will trigger a bee addiction.
00:03:34
Speaker
i can pretty much guarantee it. Adrian explains the differences between conventional and natural beekeeping, how commercial hives leave bees cold, stressed and defensive, crazy insights about how bees can be seen as a mammal in many bodies and also how they make wax which is really cool, the uncanny tale of how he became the sugar bag man,
00:03:57
Speaker
and his impassioned perspectives on European honeybees in Australia, managing varroa mite and where to source the best honey in all the land. For those like me who've been hesitant about beekeeping due to doubts about bee welfare, like not wanting to squish the poor buggers, Adrian's unique and sensitive approach is like switching on a light bulb.
00:04:18
Speaker
I've been inspired to build a Kenyan top bar hive, which is what Adrian recommends after taking his weekend course. And just to let you know that Adrian sells natural beekeeping supplies such as the hives and even just the kits for you to make your own and also run seasonal beekeeping courses that I cannot recommend highly enough.
Creative Updates from Katie
00:04:37
Speaker
It totally changed my life and my outlook on life. And Adrian is such a warm and wise and gifted educator. So a huge thank you to Adrian for making the time to join us on resilience today.
00:04:48
Speaker
And just before we launch into this conversation, I want to shout out to my peeps on Patreon, all of those who are contributing towards the time it takes to plan and record and produce this show, which I got to say is relatively irresponsible, financially speaking. It's about 20 hours, 30 hours of my week sometimes, but it is perfectly in keeping with my soul's key performance indicators.
00:05:12
Speaker
So thanks to everyone on Patreon, and thank you to our newest patron Gabe.
Teaching and Beekeeping Philosophy
00:05:16
Speaker
And also, this week I posted a little gift on that platform, which is a greeting card that I drew for my friends and family featuring goats, obviously, and sunflowers that I wanted to share with you. So you can find that as a digital download, if you fancy, over at patreon dot.com forward slash reskillience. Alrighty, here's Natural Beekeeping Magic with Adrian Iodas. Thank you so much for listening. Enjoy.
00:05:46
Speaker
I shouldn't have asked you. welcome to the ros illion oh good I wasn't sure. that really throws me Well let's just do, let's go with that and keep going. yeah you Brilliant. So I'm glad to hear you enjoy teaching because the last thing I would want to hear is that you're like um an old rock band who just has to play that song that everyone's requesting really begrudgingly. Do you ever feel like that though? You said the same thing so many times.
00:06:09
Speaker
um Interesting. I often think, am I going to get sick of this? Bloody repeating the same thing, you know, nearly sometimes week after week. But no, I don't because I get there and I'm thinking, oh, I've got to teach tomorrow. i And then I start and I get really, really excited and I i amaze myself actually, I amaze myself because I'm hearing myself repeat things that I know so well.
00:06:38
Speaker
about these amazing creatures and then I'm just going far out they're really amazing you know. Do you think you're channeling the bee people in a way? You're like their mouthpiece now. You're working for them. Wow I can tell you something. I'll tell you a little story.
00:06:52
Speaker
I was pretty ill a couple of, about a year ago. I had a gut thing going on. I had a blastocyst, blastocystis hominis. Really, really, really. fanacious motherfucker shocking We're allowed to swear on the phone. Excellent. box explicit it Excellent. I don't swear a lot. Sure. ah During my courses I don't.
00:07:16
Speaker
ah But so yeah, I got i got this blasto. I didn't know I had it. I lost tons of weight. I was 82 kilos. I got down to 66 kilos. Thought I was dying. I thought I had cancer. I thought I had this. I thought I had that. you know I was getting blood tests everywhere. Nothing was showing anything. and Eventually, one I saw two doctors and then I saw another one. and he He knew straight away looking at my bloods that he guessed I had it. Something about my body wasn't absorbing proteins. Anyway, long story short,
00:07:47
Speaker
in the healing process of that I had a course to teach up in Ballangen and I was really really ill and my mate Nick I was also seeing a naturopath at the same time my mate Nick was over and I said, I think I'm going to have to counsel this course. I was teaching with a ah friend of mine, Emily. she's She's an amazing woman up in Ballington and she runs a business called Embody B. She sells healing products from from honey and from bees. Pretty, pretty cool business. And um I was you know heading up there to the teach with her.
00:08:27
Speaker
um And prior to going, I went and got a spinal flow therapy treatment, that's what it's called, by a friend of mine, Sundaramani in Bermagui. And um I remember going in there and still feeling really, really weak and tired. And I walked in there and she laid me on the table on my belly.
00:08:46
Speaker
And she literally, with one finger, ran her finger down my spine and I was just started weeping and weeping and weeping. And I just couldn't stop crying. It was so intense.
00:09:01
Speaker
you know I've cried a lot before right but he was just pouring out of me pouring out of me and it was right in it was right at the time when the government was killing all these bees right they're running around the DPI and biosecurity running around killing all these bees because varal might had just been discovered and and I was crying for them and I was crying because I was a bit afraid of sticking my head out and speaking out worried about the repercussions of it all.
00:09:33
Speaker
um
00:09:35
Speaker
so I remember being in these tears and then all of a sudden I left you i left left my body or whatever and went into a deep, deep, deep, deep rest and I had a dream and the bees came to me, these female bees came to me and they started saying you need to start speaking up, you need to start speaking up, we need your help, it's time.
Adrian's Transformative Bee Experience
00:10:01
Speaker
And I went, whoa, and I woke up out of that. And And I headed up north. I said, right, Nick. Nick said, I'll drive you there, man. I'll drive you there. So Nick came with me, a good friend, Nick. And he's feeding me eggs, boiled eggs all the way, and nuts. He's feeding me sugar water yeah everything. you know Because I couldn't. yeah i was I wasn't digesting anything. I wasn't i wasn't putting in any weight. And I get up there. I ring Emily. And I said, look, I'm coming.
00:10:24
Speaker
she said don't worry just come up teach what you can I'll do the rest you just you just be here with us you know so we get up there and next thing you know this she's organized these little pixie woman full-on full-on forest pixie woman right to come and do a beautiful healing on me and she came, she opened the ceremony, she opened the course with a beautiful drumming ceremony and then she did this beautiful healing on me and then we went out in the forest after the course finished and the two days went by and we went and and did some mushrooms you know and were laying on the riverbank on the Ballot River
00:11:06
Speaker
and we we we eat And we've eaten these mushrooms and mixed with honey, of course. And and I had this beautiful moment where I was laying on the bank and and all all the you know the mycelium, all the all the roots of the mushroom came up into me from from the riverbank and and went into my left side. I can feel it really working my left brain, my left arm, my left leg.
00:11:34
Speaker
And the left's the feminine side, right? Again, the bees are all girls and it was it was an amazing experience and I could just feel my left side getting re-programmed in a sense. or All my cells were being re-calibrated and everything was just a healing was' a beautiful healing healing moment.
00:11:54
Speaker
And the bees, in a way, I felt they sent me up there to get that healing. you know and They said, we need you help, you need to speak up. And I went up there and I got that beautiful healing from these forest women, these Melissa women, these sacred bee worshippers. They're full and they're up there.
00:12:15
Speaker
And Simon Mulvaney came up, he runs an organisation called Save the Bees Australia. And he came up and and we we all got talking about what are we going to do? you know so so that So he was already working on trying to get the government to stop the killing, the regime. you know So we all we all sort of collaborated. So yeah, they ah they do speak to me from time to time. and And if you if you stop to listen, yeah, they definitely guide us. Well, you speak to them too. And I've seen you do that because I've just been in your very magical two-day course. And what touched me the most was when you were showing us inside the hive and we were able to do those hive inspections right here on the property that we're sitting on right now and having this conversation. And when you closed that hive back up, it was a non-performative, wholly genuine
00:13:13
Speaker
quiet humble thanksgiving that I saw you offer to that organism and it it touched me as someone who is allergic to performative bullshit and I would love to know more about your relationship with the bees Adrian and what what you're communicating back and forth
00:13:34
Speaker
Well, I guess we can start from the beginning. yeah I don't often tell this story. um I was travelling around Australia in my mid-30s, early to mid-30s, in my troop carrier. You had a troopie. Yeah, I had a troopie. It was a great troopie. Wow, so good. It was, you know, fully set up. I had the draws in the back, the pullout draws, I had all my stuff crammed in there, swag in the back.
00:13:59
Speaker
And i could ah I could actually sleep in the back, but I never did. I slept in a swag. And I was cruising around, and I ended up on this cattle station right up in the Kimberleys. And it was one of the small cattle stations, only 600,000 acres, right? It's one of the baby ones up there. And they happened to be building, ah sit preparing for the muster.
00:14:24
Speaker
And all the cattle up there were were wild, they were scrubbles, they were really wild cattle, hey? And I thought, oh, this might be interesting. So I stuck around and I started helping free. I just i just said, oh, I'm going to hang around here. And it was it was myself and the contractor, Peter, and old Jerry jerry adam Adamson. Yeah, Jerry Adamson, he he ran the station. He was
Natural Beekeeping Education
00:14:48
Speaker
he was like in his 80s then.
00:14:50
Speaker
and Two Aboriginal stockmen turned up one night, you know, and they were, so Pete and I prepared everything, you know, for a couple of weeks, about three weeks, you know, from sunup to sundown, seven days a week. We just never stopped. And all we ate was beef. Beef for breakfast, beef and steak and eggs for breakfast. What about those delicious dampers that they make? ah What are they called, the Johnny Cakes? Johnny Cakes, but the the countrymen do that. but But Pete's wife was a cook, and steak and eggs for breakfast, you know. Steak sandwich is for lunch, with a bit of cake, of course. morning Afternoon tea was a bit of cake. And then and then a roast for dinner, you know, with beans. That's how to live.
00:15:31
Speaker
well It was a bit heavy for me, you know, a big steak for breakfast, I can tell you. ah Now I like it, now I really get in, but back then it was like, where's the cereal man? Yeah, where's my weak pick? Anyway, so, what about a piece of toast? So, after, you know, three weeks of being there, these two Aboriginal stockmen turned up.
00:15:52
Speaker
really They were in the mid fifty s mid to late 50s, Dandy Buck and Dougie McHale, beautiful man they were. and So we started working with these guys and they weren't on horseback anymore, everything was done with bull buggies, like done up four wheel drives to catch these bulls.
00:16:11
Speaker
And we're driving around, again we're setting up stockyards, you know, miles away from the homestep. So we'd have to sleep out there, we'd have to take our slags and camp and set up. It was pretty cool. And at night they'd be talking about the stars and and all the, some of the stories they were telling me. I got really close, actually they took me under their wing, got really close with these two guys. And one day I remember leaning on this tree, you know, it was bloody hot, and leaning on this tree.
00:16:40
Speaker
right next to my face and I noticed these little bugs zipping out right next to my eye and I looked to my left and looked at the tree and I realized there was a tiny little hole there with these tiny little native honeybees and they're zipping in and out zipping in and out and I'm like wow look at these man I said to the the stockman and dandy and uh we call him countryman up there I said to the countryman hey check this out there's a native beehive here and they're like oh great so one of them runs and grabs the chainsaw yeah he starts cutting this tree down i'm like oh wow okay cool so you know we get into the tree and we were eating sugar bag and and and the brood and everything and that and the wax and chewing on it it was so delicious it was a amazing flavor nothing like
00:17:30
Speaker
what we eat out of a European honey bee hive. That's very different, hey. And I thought, oh that was cool, a bit of bush food, great. By the way, we're eating heaps of goanna. Showing me how to catch goanna, prepare it, and we ate tons of goanna. What's that like? Excellent. It's it's fantastic.
00:17:49
Speaker
Really, really good, hey. It's actually, I miss it. We get a lot of goannins on our property, but yeah, I don't want to run around knocking them on the head. um So anyway, so so then, you know, time going goes by and I lean on another tree another day and there's another one, you know, and oh look at that one. I found six native beehives in about three months.
00:18:14
Speaker
And these guys were freaking out. They'd go, wow, how do you do it? I said, I don't know, I'll just see them. And they said, you Gullaga man. Gullaga, you Gullaga man. What's that? Gullaga is the you know the sugar bag man. That's that's your totem. You're him. you know look they They find one nest every six months if they're lucky.
00:18:35
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll take that. Thank you. That sort of thing. And, you know, I ended up finishing up there and I was living in Melbourne at the time and growing, you know, I got married and had a baby and, you know, my wife and I, we're living just out of Elpham there.
00:18:54
Speaker
We're living on half an acre and we're growing veggies and there's a beautiful fruit trees already established there. We had chooks and I thought I'm gonna get some native bees. So I started doing some research and realised quickly that it wasn't a good idea to get native honey bees in Melbourne. it's It's just too cold for them and I'd have to nurture them and um and yeah It wasn't the environment for them, so I thought oh well that that sucks. you know I really wanted to get them to be in my totem. So I ended up just getting myself some European honeybees and haven't turned back since. I still yearn for some native honeybees.
00:19:38
Speaker
Again, they won't do really well where I live. We live up in the hills from Bermagui. We live about 30 k's inland. If I was in Berme, they'd do okay. But being up in the hills, you know, the temperature gets down to minus five in winter. Yeah, the bees won't do well at all.
00:19:55
Speaker
European honeybees work. Well, ah started I started I got a hive I got given a hive by a friend's friend and Started doing a bunch of research online I attended a biodynamic agricultural course and met a man called Tobias Maga whom a German guy a biodynamic market gardener in Warburton is still there today and And he told me, you know, my wife's German, so he said, why don't you, next time you go to Germany, go to this place called Millefera, which is the B name, right? Apus Millefera.
00:20:34
Speaker
It's at ah an institute called Fishermüller. It's in southern Germany. Go there and and do do some courses with that mob. So you know it had been a couple of years of beekeeping already. I'd already done it for a couple of years. Conventional beekeeping. I think the first book I got was Beekeeping for Dummies. And that's really, really industrialised commercial beekeeping. you know teaching it Not teaching you how to do it commercially for commercial reasons, but the management techniques were all about you know industrial beekeeping and conventional beekeeping. Anyway, I went to Germany and did this beautiful five-day live-in course. you know and we We breathed and ate honey and bees. and
00:21:21
Speaker
It was amazing, it was there were 60 people there, and all we did was talk about these. Mind you, the course was in German, right? But having heard a lot of German at home, my wife speaks German with our son, I think we had our three kids by then. So you know I had a bit of an ear for it.
00:21:41
Speaker
um But because it was about bees, I didn't really need to listen. I just knew what he was talking about the whole time. Also, one of the students, she was she was translating for me most of the time, when i whenever I couldn't really understand what he was talking about. And then um Thomas Rudetsky was the teacher, and he would he would um you know i would ask him, sorry, Thomas, can you repeat that in English? And he spoke fluent English, of course. They all bloody do over in Germany.
00:22:09
Speaker
And so I pretty much got what was going on. And and I came from came away from that course, blown away. I thought, geez, what what the hell have I been learning? What crap have I been learning, honestly? That's terrible. And I grabbed Tobias by the collar. I said, hey, we need to teach this stuff in Australia. This this is bad. you know There's only one guy that I knew of, Tim Malfoy, my legend superstar.
00:22:36
Speaker
He runs Melfroy's Gold and he introduced natural beekeeping into Australia. He runs worried hives up in the Blue Mountains.
00:22:48
Speaker
so I said to be as a man, we need to teach this, this has got to be more accessible. So we developed this course and of course it's evolved somewhat. But yeah, they they're they' foundations and whenever I teach in Warrenwood or Warrandyte or in Ringwood around that area, to be as teachers with me, and we teach it together, which I haven't done for a long time, but it's time soon.
00:23:17
Speaker
And that's that's pretty much the start of it and that I think was about 10 years ago So I've been teaching for about 10 years and it's it's really well accepted people who do the course come away blown away from it and and and I think it's my teaching way I s suppose and I guess the content I deliver it's not just about how to get honey out of a hive actually it's far from that it's the complete opposite it's about the well-being of the colony that we're looking after and the bees that we're looking after
00:23:55
Speaker
you know the honey the honey parts are tiny tiny little right at the end I might slip it in if I remember you know sort of thing but but yeah that's what it's about yeah I want to get into the philosophy of natural beekeeping and why people have that
Reflections on Adrian's Wisdom
00:24:10
Speaker
I think a really intrinsic understanding of why it makes sense and how it touches a lot of other facets of life and helps us see the world a little differently too but I did want to one just thank you for sharing your origin story because that is pretty fucking special like actually being um it's almost like a cosmic selection process and I wonder at that stage of your life were you having an existential crisis were you out there on the land seeking were you wondering what direction you were going to go in like looking for a career change what was going on for you at that time because I know
00:24:45
Speaker
I'm in my 30s and I often feel too kind of stodgy and old to to try anything new anymore and although I know that that's a silly kind of brutal mindset to have but I think people we get stuck in these phases and should you know we should be at a certain point so I'm just wondering what what you would say to people maybe in that position because like I look at you now and I'm soaked in your wisdom and I just think were you I mean I assumed that you basically grew up in a bee colony and somehow took on the countenance of a human, but you're actually an insect. But it's amazing to me that this has actually happened to you like later in life. So yeah, what's going on for you at that time? Okay, so I've loved animals all my life. You know, I just love animals. I wanted to be a farmer actually as a child. I've always wanted to be a farmer.
00:25:35
Speaker
I remember saying that to a local priest, what do you want to be when you grow up? I want to be a farmer. And he said, a father? Great. You want to be a priest? I said, no, I don't want to be a bloody I remember that really clearly. You want to shepherd the sheep? Yeah, sure. no Yes, exactly. um So I've always been into animals. um insects as well, as well as fish. you know I love ah love everything. And at that time, I was completely not where you're going to expect. I'm going to surprise you here. um i was I was running a bar in St Kilda called the Vineyard.
00:26:13
Speaker
The only comparison is, or the only parallel is that the floor is really sticky. Oh it's sticky man. And it could potentially be covered in honey. Oh that's terrible. So is it really that different? Oh yeah. Well I don't know, a lot of people come and go with all that buzzing in and out, you know. Wow. Yeah I was running a bar with my brothers in St Kilda called the Vineyard restaurant, which is really really popular on accident. Still there today, my brother still runs it.
00:26:38
Speaker
um And I just had enough. you know I'd been working in bars for a long time and um I was a pretty heavy drinker. I'm going to confess I was into drugs, you know amphetamines, and to keep me awake at night because I used to work late and um drink a lot.
00:26:57
Speaker
um And I just knew there was more to life than that. I really did. And I ended up going to this place called the Centre for Human Transformation in Stills Creek out in the Yarra Valley and met some amazing people there. It's not there anymore, unfortunately. Got burnt down during the Black Saturday fires and did a lot of work on myself there.
00:27:20
Speaker
a lot a lot of personal work and um went deep into looking at who i am and and what i want to be and what i'm doing in this world that surely it can't be just about getting high and getting pissed and carrying on like a like a teenager So I started questioning that in myself and did some breath work, you know, rebirthing, did a lot of body work and actually met my wife there. And then decided, I told my brothers, I said, I've got to get out of this. I can't ah can't stay here anymore. If I stay here, I'm going to take more drugs. And it's just that environment, you know,
00:28:02
Speaker
bar Bar work can get quite full on, you know, it's that environment, everyone takes drugs and everyone drinks. I just needed to get out of there. And so I took off, I took off and um part of the trip I went with my my girlfriend at the time, which was my wife now, I met her at the centre.
00:28:22
Speaker
And I took off for two years. Well, I was supposed to take off for two years. So I was already on a bit of a spiritual trip, right? So I was really open, really open to seeing what I discovered on the road. And I discovered that, I discovered the bees. um And I remember getting back and going over to Germany to visit my in-laws to do that course as well. And and my father-in-law, he said to him, what are you going to do when you get back? I said, I'm not i'm not doing that anymore. And he goes, oh, what are you going to do for money, you know? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And actually, no, sorry, it was it was after I was married and we had kids and we went back to Germany and I decided I was going to teach, right?
Adrian's Beekeeping Journey
00:29:06
Speaker
and and he said surely you can't make a crust out of teaching beekeeping i said you watch i'm gonna i'm gonna make money out of beekeeping i just pull my family out of it and and i'm i'm gonna be a real spokesperson for bees and i'm gonna teach people how to respect bees and And people are gonna come, people are gonna come to my courses, you watch. I remember saying that to him and he's looking at me thinking, this guy's nuts, you know? How's he gonna, you know, care for my daughter in Australia and then my grandchildren on her beekeeping teacher's wages? And I said, oh I'll do it, I'll do something. So yeah. There's no motivation like making a dramatic pledge to your father-in-law. Yeah, exactly right.
00:29:49
Speaker
exactly bit of bloody like for money So, you know, and look, I love what I do. I'm blessed. So you're not sick of it yet. That's the option. No I'm not actually. it's good for us to know that for the next little while seasonally you might be kicking around offering these workshops because my explicit motivation in this conversation is to share with everyone how incredible just like that little taster of your teachings and obviously my enthusiasm. People know that I don't talk about shit that I'm not into. yeah Like I would love for everyone to do your cause. It doesn't matter if you're interested in keeping bees or not. Like you just inspire this like the oar and wonderment and little magical these moments. Even just some of your ecological
00:30:39
Speaker
the wisdoms and the uncommon sense that you offered to everyone in that course. And I want to come in and bring some of those things into the conversation for people just to go, what? But I think we should just start at natural beekeeping and a bit of a definition, a snapshot of what that actually means, as opposed to conventional beekeeping and also just the word natural. Like, what do you mean? is What do you mean? Is beekeeping not natural? So if you could just give us a bit of a primer on that, a yeah that'd be great. What is natural?
00:31:07
Speaker
It is a huge question. and And you know, a lot of people ask that, of course they do. Well, what natural beekeeping really is about is trying to keep bees as naturally as possible. Like it's still natural beekeeping. We're still keeping bees. So how do we keep bees in a way that they can live and express themselves more naturally?
00:31:35
Speaker
That's really what it's about. And one of the main main things is we we allow them to build natural comb. How do you explain that and if you're not a beekeeper? And what's the differences? it's It's a hard thing to explain, but in conventional beekeeping, commercial style beekeeping, you know you know you those oblong shaped beehives and Langstroth hive. Well they've got frames in them.
00:31:59
Speaker
And in those frames, a wax foundation sheet is placed. And the bees then start to build their comb on that wax foundation sheet. The reason that wax foundation sheet's there is to give the bees a straight line to follow. So they build on that sheet. And that way when the frame's pulled out, it's straight. It's not all over the place because bees don't build straight combs generally. They build in any direction they feel is the right direction.
00:32:29
Speaker
It might be a curvature, it might be a zigzag sort of shape. Pretty pretty creative and amazing when you look at natural natural hive and you look into hollows and stuff like that.
00:32:40
Speaker
um so frames were invented of course so then the beekeeper could easily extract those frames take them out examine the brood you know in for pest and disease all that sort of stuff and also the honeycombs they could you know uncap them so take the wax capping off each cell with a knife with hot knife and then put those frames into a centrifugal extractor and it spins really quick and spits all the honey out and then that frame that empty frame of wax cone is placed back into the hive and the bees quickly fill it with with nectar and honey again and then it's it's harvested again you know a couple of weeks later so there's this quick turnaround of honey
00:33:24
Speaker
Well, natural beekeeping is not about honey collection, right? We're not paying our mortgage with honey. We're just keeping a couple of hives at home. We might put a bit of honey on our toast, give a few jars to some friends. And that's really what it's about. So we let them build natural combs hanging off in a Kenyan top bar hive, for instance, off a top bar. A top bar is just a bit of timber, about 36 mils wide.
00:33:49
Speaker
going across you know a trough in a sense, a whole bunch of them side by side and we put we put us a bead of wax down the centre of each top bar and the bees follow that bead of wax and they build combs off of those top bars and hopefully they build straight combs following that straight bead of wax, right? And half the time they don't, cheeky little buggers.
00:34:14
Speaker
And and that's where that's where we have to come in and manage the hive and make sure that they're building straight combs. Because we also want to take those combs out and examine. There's no frame to support that comb. And they use sacred geometry to build beautiful natural formed combs in in a hive. And then we we if we want to harvest some honey, we take those combs out, only the coney combs, nothing with baby bees in it.
00:34:41
Speaker
and we cut the combs off the top bar and we just crush it up we crush it squeeze the honey out of the out of the wax through a sieve or through a muslin cloth or using a honey press it's like a food press and and we we get the benefits of that beautiful raw cold pressed honey you know it's so good and it tastes different tastes different to honey that's put through a centrifugal extractor Even if they come out of the same hive, we've done tests on that. Or taste tests, you know, we've got mates blindfolded and say, which one do you like? And people always pick the one that's been crushed.
Cultural Significance of Bees
00:35:20
Speaker
It has a buttery taste to it, because the wax is beef fat, right? Oh, can you explain what beeswax is? Yeah. That's my favourite bee fact. Alright, let's do it. One of about 25 favourite bee facts.
00:35:34
Speaker
so um
00:35:37
Speaker
So bees bees need to consume a whole heap of honey or nectar to produce fat, right? They produce, they've got these these glands down their abdomen, on um their under under their bellies, right? Eight wax glands. Four on each side. And when they eat a lot of nectar, they've got to eat a lot of nectar.
00:36:01
Speaker
It makes them fat, right? so So then all of a sudden they start secreting these little wax platelets, and wax is beef fat. It's just hard, right? You thought your sweat was sticky. Yeah, exactly right. but So then, you know, their sisters come and grab it, chew it all up, add propolis to it, add enzymes to it, add all sorts of goodies to it, and they chew it up, make it mandible, and then they start building their beautiful honeycombs out of it, right?
00:36:30
Speaker
So we can melt that and and and and make candles, you know, make shoe polishes, make all sorts of stuff out of it. Make g lip balms or skin balms, because it's healing. Right, so grandfather son, is let's get this right, grandfather son wakes up in the morning, sticks his head up.
00:36:49
Speaker
and And his rays, his energy, his his beautiful light rays, hit those plants. Those plants then start to grow, of course, and and suck in those rays of energy and that energy. You know the feeling. We get the same feeling, right? So those plants start to stretch.
00:37:07
Speaker
and yawn in the morning, and then they start to produce nectar. Now that nectar is a direct correlation with grandfather's son's energy. It's coming out of them because they're producing it from his energy. They're making energy.
00:37:22
Speaker
And the bee collects that nectar, she brings it home, she passes it to her sisters, they pass it around, they all have a taste, and they reduce the the neck the the moisture out of it, and eventually it turns to quite thick honey, and then they store it in the wax. But anyway, apart from that,
00:37:42
Speaker
You know, those other bees that are building the comb, they they get fat on it, right? Because pure carbohydrates, so they get fat, and they start in a sweat. These little platelets of sun the sun's rays, grandfather's sun's rays out.
00:37:59
Speaker
then they And then we harvest that honeycomb, we crush it up, and we get that wax you know and we melt it down and we make candles. And every time we light a candle, guess what? you know We're just igniting grandfather's light again. you know he's he's He's raised, he's energy, and it's in our house.
00:38:16
Speaker
And, you know, if you think about churches, right, I don't know, I was dragged to church when I was a kid, right, by the year. A good old Catholic family. And we would we would light a candle when we walked in the church and put 10 cents in the money box, grab a candle, light it, and stick it on with all amongst all the other candles. That's what you do in the Catholic church. And I didn't know why we were doing that. I just did it, because that's what we did.
00:38:44
Speaker
but now I know why because if you go back not too long ago do you remember the movie and you know the movie Robin Hood right you've got Friar Tuck well I remember Friar Tuck cruising around on his horse and cart with a bunch of beehives and beer barrels on his and he's always drunk right well he was drunk on mead now that I know it it was mead it wasn't beer It was mead. And he moved his beehives around. And the reason monks and monasteries, male and female monasteries, had bees, and still do today, I set one up actually. I helped set up a a monastery with with Kenyan top of the hives. Anyway, because they want the wax. The wax and and the mead, the you know, the honey was a byproduct. And the reason they want the wax was to build to make candles.
00:39:39
Speaker
So they they li they lit they lit up all their temples and and and churches with candles. Now the commoner, Joe'd blow down the road, couldn't afford beeswax. So here we would burn fat, you know animal fat, lard and whale fat to to light up our houses. But it wasn't clean.
00:40:02
Speaker
Whereas churches and the kings and queens and and all the aristocracy burnt beeswax. Now the churches used it to light up the dark places. So you think of this metaphor. You're taking grandfather's son and you're bringing light into the darkness.
00:40:23
Speaker
We laid a candle in church to bring light into our darkness, into our ourselves. That's why I was lighting bloody candles in church. It's quite a beautiful process if you know what you're bloody doing. I wish they had told us what we were doing. We probably wouldn't have listened anyway as kids.
00:40:39
Speaker
We didn't get told any contextual information as children. So you know it's it's quite an amazing thing and beeswax is a special special special product. It is my favorite scent. if I came in immediately sniffed those beeswax sheets he had lying on the table. I do the same as soon as I see them. like Oh geez that's nice. Oh it is so good. It is ah such a good smell hey. I really want to bring more to life and to light these differences between the the conventional hives and yeah the Kenyan top bar because one aversion I've had for a long time to beekeeping is
00:41:20
Speaker
i'm a complete insect tragic like i will be ferrying the little grubs that i get off the table back to the garden putting them on my lush herbs and saying go for your life son blessings on your journey keep eating like i i was that child taking ants out of the swimming pool and kind of I actually imagined a world where the ants were the overlords and they actually had humans working for them and I think it's probably something to do with just you know I felt really small as a child and so I've got endless compassion for small things without a voice and we without our you know our ability to emote and communicate so I have
00:41:56
Speaker
so much excitement about your style of beekeeping or natural beekeeping because what I've noticed is you don't fucking squish the bees and in the Langstroth hives all I've seen is the clumsiness and there the the sandwiching of the bee people who I'm purportedly caring for so yeah I wonder if you I know we've been over this in the course on the weekend like this the the stress that the bees are under in certain hives yeah well I guess I guess i'll I'll talk about some of those practices. Well I moved away from Langstroth hives because of that reason. Exactly that. Squashing bees. It's really hard to put a Langstroth hive back together. You know you've taken the roof off. Now that I know, because then I didn't know. You take the roof off. The first thing that happens is all this beautiful hot air rushes out of the hive.
00:42:47
Speaker
Now bees maintain a temperature of about 35, 36 degrees around the nest area, constantly, constantly. If it's freezing outside, they're they're vibrating their little wing muscles, not flapping their wings, just vibrating that muscle, heating themselves up to 42 degrees and and permeating that heat. But they need to eat honey and and and nectar to get the carbohydrates, to get the energy to do that.
00:43:14
Speaker
So they're're they're going through a lot of their stalls doing that. Now the Langstroth hive's only 22 mils thick, the timber. So that there in itself is just not good enough. It's really not. Yeah, sure, they'll live in lot of a lot of conventional beekeepers. A lot of bees thrive in those hives. Yeah, but it's because you're managing them flat out, you know? You're working them, you're making them live, and you're moving them around, and so forth and so forth.
00:43:40
Speaker
um But getting back to taking the roof off though, you know we ripped that roof off and every bee in that colony knows you're in there because that hottie just took off out the chimney and and a gust of cool air rushed in through the front door. Now the front door is right down the bottom and the roof's right up the top so all of a sudden there's this cold air rushing through through all the combs, every bee knows you're there and they send out an alarm pheromone. So they're already alarmed.
00:44:11
Speaker
just by taking the roof off. Then i I go through lifting combs out. Now I can be really careful and and I'm good at that and and not necessarily crush bees when I'm taking combs out and then if I want to get into the brood area I've got to take the first box off and and get into the bottom box to have a look at the brood.
00:44:33
Speaker
Now that's all good, but I've separated the two boxes, so I've already pulled the thing apart. It's in two pieces now. This organism that's living inside this, I guess a chimney sort of a thing with multiple boxes stacked on top of each other, all of a sudden gets pulled apart, completely pulled apart. Those boxes get separated and that's the part I didn't like.
00:45:00
Speaker
And then, that's one of the parts I didn't like. And then, when I'm in the brood area, I've checked for pests and disease, whatever, whatever I'm doing in there. And then when I go and put this jigsaw puzzle back together,
00:45:14
Speaker
it's really really really difficult to not crush bees because they they're all over the edges they're on the edges they're underneath on the edges and as you lift each box because you know they bloody weigh a lot you're kind of trying to shuffle them on there and slowly slide them across so you're not crushing bees and while you're sliding it across you're pushing bees out of the way but but it's still crushing bees it gets them trapped in that gap and you're cutting bees in half and every every time without fail putting a Langstroth hide back together crushes bees so what are we doing what are we actually telling the bees what are they learning from that they're learning that there's the bastard that's coming to kill us right and they start to react that way they start to get defensive they start to get really suspicious of us
00:46:04
Speaker
Then we've got to use the smoke. We've got to puff the smoke in there because they start getting angry, right? So we puff in the way, choking them, you know, burning their eyeballs with smoke. I don't know if that happens, but you know, I can imagine it does. And we're confusing them because by using smoke, we're actually confusing the bees. We're telling them there's a fire coming. So they get so busy panicking about fire, they're just starting to fill their bellies up.
00:46:30
Speaker
And then the ones that are sending out the alarm pheromone about the bad human that's in the hive, the that the smoke covers their pheromone, so they're confused. And then we put it all back together, go away go away and think, yeah, that was a great beekeeping session.
00:46:47
Speaker
And the bees, you know, they're angry, they've been flying around me, they've been trying to sting me, and they're just not happy. So I started getting really, really upset every time I went into a beehive. I started going, ah, this is absolute shit. This is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong.
Bee Swarming and Superorganism Concept
00:47:08
Speaker
There's also management techniques that come into play. you know We're encouraged by the Department of Primary Industries to kill or to suppress the swarming of bees. right you know The whole idea of that, and I get it, you know if you're living in the suburbs and your bees are swarming all the bloody time, then your neighbour might be anaphylactic to bees, or they might not want bees in their backyard.
00:47:33
Speaker
and And so on one level I can understand suppressing the swarming from bees. But if you look at a ah if you look at at the level of bees needing to breed or multiply, that's how bees multiply. They swarm. That's their natural way they multiply.
00:47:54
Speaker
And if everybody's running around, not letting them swim, suppressing that swim, what are we doing to the to the greater organism of the being, you know? All of a sudden we've got bees everywhere in in hides that aren't being allowed to swim.
00:48:13
Speaker
And the way that beekeepers multiply hives is by doing what's called a split where they'll shake a couple of kilos of bees out of a hive into ah a funnel. That funnel goes into ah a box and then they'll get a ah queen that they've reared themselves, not even a real queen.
00:48:32
Speaker
and they'll stick it in the box and they'll say, here you go, is there's there's a hive, go for it, you know? And that's how we that's how commercial beekeepers multiply their aperies, their colonies. Natural beekeeping, courage is swarming. We let our bees swarm.
00:48:49
Speaker
Sure we try to catch all our swarms because I think it's our responsibility as beekeepers to do what we can to catch swarms that are coming out of our hives by setting up what's called swarm traps in and around our backyards even in our neighbors backyards and actually being available to catch those swarms and keeping a good eye ah during swarming season on our hives you know and and really make a big effort to contain those swarms and catch them and put them in a new hive or even better give them to someone else starting out because there's nothing better than giving someone a newbie you know a box of bees and go here you go and they stick it in their hive and they get going you know it's a beautiful thing to start for someone
00:49:30
Speaker
it's a life-changing experience yeah and your youtube on swarm catching a swarm and introducing them to a new hive is really great your whole youtube channel is really awesome and i'll link that so people can actually see what they're talking about because there's so many aspects of bees as creatures i didn't know that worker bees were women the girl bees, main bees and the difference between them and the drones i not well yeah i mean I only eat honey three times a day but I've never actually asked any questions about it so even yeah the swarming process you conceptualized it and I thought this was this was really mind-blowing for me like the organism it it's an entity it's yeah the organism is reproducing like having a baby when it swarms and that's like a mammalian we have a low a low rate we we can't have that many kids I mean we're just
00:50:19
Speaker
Yeah, well that's an interesting yeah point here. says that There's a really good book written by a professor in Germany, an entomologist and German biologist. His name's Jürgen Tautz. And it's called The Buzz About Bees. Excellent book. And he talks about the bees being a a superorganism.
00:50:39
Speaker
um And manly he also says that there are a mammal in many bodies, yeah which is really interesting because bees maintain a temperature around their brood, like I said earlier, 35, 36 degrees, right like ah like a mammal, similar to a mammal. They produce a milk-like substance to feed their babies, which is the oh the royal jelly and the brood jelly. right it's its It's almost like a milk. And they secrete it out of two glands in their head.
00:51:06
Speaker
um They have a womb in a sense and they protect that womb. And that's the nest area where mum lays her eggs and she you know she raises the babies there. So they have this kind of like a womb area and it's kept really warm. Like other insects will will have lots and lots of babies. But bees don't. They they split once, twice, three times a year like a cell, right? A cell splits in in half and it becomes two cells. Well, bees split in half and they become two colonies.
00:51:34
Speaker
Now people think that bees are multiplying when when mum lays her eggs, but that's not the fact. We we need to consider the the organism or the the colony as an organism and each bee is a cell of that organism not another organism. That's what's landing for me and then that's making sense in terms of you you were telling us that when we were looking in the hives we're looking inside an organism and that permission seeking and gratitude around actually opening up a body and looking looking within it's almost like seeing the work our inner workings and the swirling mass of cells and
00:52:10
Speaker
all of their communication if we just didn't have our epidermis kind of holding the whole show together. But it's like you can see that colony as almost this naked skinless thing and each bee is a cell and you spoke so beautifully about the way that those those cells do their job and almost accept a kind of at face value brutal demise like if they're not needed anymore for example taking the work the drones out and dispatching them at the end of the season and things like that but it's it's so beautiful in a way like everyone's accepting their place in that organism and that's a way that I haven't he considered bees or anything really It's interesting, isn't it? As soon as I... i like I like to tell people that I think it's a really important part of the course because it gets people to really drop in and and exactly get what you're saying. I actually had one of the course students come up to me after the course and he said, that part you said about the organism, the penny dropped for me. That was it. you know As soon as i soon as I got that, i everything made sense.
00:53:17
Speaker
And it's great to hear that feedback, you know, because when I read that, and I already knew it, but it cemented it for me, you know, from Jurgen Tatz saying that. And actually Natural Bee keeps talking about that a lot, this superorganism. And when we start looking um at as an when we start looking at the bee colony as an organism, it's almost like looking at them as ah a pet cat or a pet dog, you know. they they're big and they're they're alive and they're moving and they're expanding, they're growing with the seasons, you know, so spring and summer with that in-breath, you know, they're growing and expanding out and then the out-breath in autumn and winter, they're they're contracting. and And as a bee carer or bee keeper, we need to allow them to expand in spring and summer and then bring those, make the hive smaller in in in autumn and winter.
00:54:09
Speaker
if we're using bigger hives than what they would normally live in in in in nature. you know And the reason we give them bigger hives is so we can get that extra space so they can put extra honey in there. Otherwise, they'd be really happy in a small hive. They'd live forever in that. So yeah, they're they're they're an amazing little creature. Phenomenal.
00:54:28
Speaker
what I love the most is that even if we consider them as an organism, consider it them who as an organism, it doesn't mean that individual beings don't matter and we shouldn't treat them with reverence. So exactly I think that that's another one of those checking out, checking out dismissiveness kind of moments and carelessness. And again, another really amazing thread through your course is our own, what we're bringing to the bees and our movements and our nervous system and whatever baggage and bullshit we might have going on inside. You've spoken about the perceptiveness and the mirroring of a bee colony. Yeah, yeah I'll give you a good example. like um you know if ah If I'm not in a good mood, I might have had an argument with my wife or something like that. Excuse me.
00:55:22
Speaker
And I think, oh, I'm going to go hang out with my bees. They love me. yeah So I'll go down to the beehive and I'll start you know fumbling around in there and with with that anger in me. you know and And the bees really know it and they show it to me. They come back at me like that. They come back angry and they say, no, no, don't bring your shit here, mate. We're not here to counsel you. Fuck off. you know And they really do. They start buzzing at me or they sting me.
00:55:49
Speaker
So go and work your crap out and then come back to us, come back with reverence, come back with with want to learn. you know Because really what I've got over the years is they're actually teaching us, they're constantly teaching us. Every time, every time without fail, I'll go into a colony, I'll go into a beehive.
00:56:12
Speaker
and I'm learning something from them, something I'll see that I've never seen before, or something I'll feel, or a message will come in, and there's this constant learning, and you know there's this learning from the bees. you know it's ah It's an actual conference scene in Germany, or it was in Holland, but the Natural Beekeeping Trust called it learning from the bees, because Natural beekeepers know that, we know that. and And I'm not saying conventional and commercial beekeepers don't know that, of course they do. But they're paying their mortgage with bee honey and they're working hard and the bees are working hard and they're trying to have a livelihood, I guess. and
00:56:52
Speaker
with with bees and and there's a lot of commercial beekeepers that are ah really good with their bees, especially the old timers, a lot of the old timers. It's now that things are changing in the bee industry and the young guys get involved and they've got big mortgages and they've got all this equipment and they've got to pay the rent and they've got to pay the bills, they've got to pay the mortgage and the interest, so they don't have the time to keep 100 hives. They've got to keep 1,000, they've got to keep 10,000.
00:57:20
Speaker
and And how can you develop a relationship with a thousand hives? You can't. A hundred hives you can. you know That's difficult. Ten hives you can. you know and you And you know each individual hive. You you know them. They know you.
Learning from Bees
00:57:35
Speaker
um They get to know you really quick. you know They remember. Not each bee, but the organism remembers. Even if they swarm, the organism that stayed behind remembers You know, they'll treat you the same. So you treat them bad and they're going to treat you the same. I mirror everything we do. They're amazing. Oh, you've given so much time already this weekend to this subject. Oh, I'm happy at all. This realm is just, yeah, it's so fascinating to hear from you. And when I put it out there earlier today, it was only a few hours ago that I put it up on Instagram that we were going to be having a conversation and I put a little question sticker like,
00:58:15
Speaker
pop your questions in here for Adrian. And I did get a few back. It was really cool and short space of time. So I wondered if I could share those with you and just a quick response. No problem. Hopefully I can answer them. You have to be able to answer them. You're the expert. Yeah, I'm not expert. And that's what I want to say. Nobody's an expert. There's no such thing. There's no such thing. Doesn't matter what trade you're in, man. There's no experts. Really, I think that's something I've learned a long time ago. It's a good filter for who to trust. People who say, don't necessarily trust me. Great. It's a green flag. So it's so funny because I get people's, not their first name, I get their handle. So the legend of Sander.
00:59:00
Speaker
whoever they may be, um asked, I've been told beekeeping upsets local pollinators, such as disease and competition, is this true? Well, disease, no, um unless there are the beak other unless there are other European honeybee colonies. um And pollinators, yes, because if you think about it, right, there's sugar gliders out there, there's moths, there's butterflies, there's flies, there's beetles,
00:59:29
Speaker
other bees native bees all wanting the nectar and the pollen right and if I turn up with 500 hives or 20 hives and stick them in the forest well it's going to completely upset the balance that's naturally formed in that part of that forest you know up to five six k's away so yes on that level definitely But getting one or two hives in your backyard, I don't know. I question that. And it's no different than a another ah possum having more babies, a sugar guy having more babies, or or a native beehive swarming and and making another nest elsewhere. And a lot of people say, yeah, but they're natives. And I say, well, we're all natives. We're all natives to this planet.
01:00:25
Speaker
you know ah really really start to de um I'm despising that non-native thing these days. um really really It really hurts my heart. Because when when are people going to stop killing everything? Because it's not from here and not from there. I'm talking about plants as well. you know We run around pulling out weeds and spraying and poisoning Mother Earth all the time. you know old uncle Max Harrison, you my Aboriginal teacher,
01:00:56
Speaker
he He would shake his head when he saw people spraying poison on our mother You know, so when's that gonna stop? That's the question. Who's benefiting from that? I know who the chemical companies and they're the guys that are poisoning all our food, you know, so If we want to listen to that crap and and follow that crap, then we're really not that switched on in ourselves. I'm saying this is my point of view. That's how I judge people, I guess. I don't know what you do, Katie, whether you run around... I judge people too. Whether you run around spraying plants and all that sort of stuff.
01:01:34
Speaker
I eat them. Yeah, you know. And those plants are plants. They've got the right to be there. I'm not from this country. My parents are Italian. I was born here. So now I am from this country, aren't I? Those plants have been there longer than my parents have been here since the 50s. They're more Australian than I am. So are those European honeybees. They've been here since the 1820s. Who says they don't belong? Surely they do now. When are we going to accept them?
01:02:04
Speaker
so they're doing a job that native bees can't do and that's pollinating all our introduced plants by the way the apples you eat the apples and the oranges the zucchinis and the pumpkins and the list goes on and on and on and on that's why the bees were introduced here not for honey they were introduced to pollinate the plants the Europeans bought into this country So when are we going to just accept that? And if we're going to sit there and say and criticise, introduce species, look in the mirror. If you're not Aboriginal, look in the mirror and say, well, am I prepared to leave? I don't think so. Most people will say no. So stop the killings. Stop it.
01:02:46
Speaker
enjoy it man, just look at it and watch it and love it, put love into the place you know, that's what we need and I rant. I love it, I love it.
Managing Varroa Mites Naturally
01:02:55
Speaker
This next one might elicit a little bit of a rant too depending on your energy levels. So Elisa who I actually know who's wonderful from Apple turnover has asked if you faced the Verolmite, which we actually are Elisa at this point, to the degree that North America does, and how might you bee keep Yeah, good, great question. Okay, so it's a really big question for me. um North America, unfortunately, copped for our mite, I think it was 40 years ago, 30 or 40 years ago. um And what happened there is they started this massive regime of poison, poison, poison, mitocytes, they're using mitocytes in hives, still today they use it.
01:03:38
Speaker
the bees become so weak over time that they need to then give them antibiotics. So the beekeepers are on this treadmill of miticides, antibiotics, miticides, antibiotics and they've been doing it for 30 years and it doesn't end. It actually hasn't fixed the problem because the mites are still there and some of them, some of the strains of mites now, well not strains, some of the The areas in America, the mites have become resilient to some of the miticides, right? So they're going to have to use stronger miticides, which knocks the bees about. Even stronger, even harder. Give them more antibiotics to keep them alive. Do we need to go on that treadmill? I don't want to go on that treadmill. We're the last continent in the world.
01:04:27
Speaker
that has got mites in it and I was saying this before the mites came we need to develop a different technique to treat or to manage varroa so I started looking at what the treatment free movement was all about in America in England in Europe and I started asking my friends over there who are non-treatment beekeepers or treatment free beekeepers what you do, how do you bees survive and what I've learnt and what ah what many many many people have learnt not so many in Australia that treating your bees is the worst thing you can do
01:05:10
Speaker
because what it is is a quick fix and the bees then become dependent on the miticides. Whether that's a miticide, whether that's a a chemical coming from a company, whether it's a natural treatment such as thyme oil or oxalic acid or lactic acid or formic acid, they're all natural treatments, right?
01:05:35
Speaker
I'll do that in inverted comments. So if we help our bees survive then we're going to continually help them survive. I know this goes against my thought of oh we need to help them but I think if we help them too much then by treating then all we're really doing is perpetuating colonies that can't help themselves.
01:06:02
Speaker
What happened over in America and Europe is colonies died in mass numbers, 90% loss rates, sometimes 100% loss rates. I'm talking about domestic colonies and wild colonies. But every now and then, a colony survived.
01:06:18
Speaker
Okay, it survived the varroa mite infestation and that colony got the opportunity to swarm and that swarm occupied another tree hollow somewhere in the forest and then that got the opportunity to swarm and those genetics were passed on passed on because they learned how to adapt and and manage varroa themselves. It's a learned technique So I'm not going to treat my bees. I totally am not going to treat my bees. And I have the opportunity to do that because I live quite out in the bush.
01:07:00
Speaker
quite isolated and big colonies there you know wild colonies there are prevalent there's a lot of them around so I'm just going to sit back and let things take their course and I reckon in a few years I'm going to be catching swarms that are varieties tolerant and I'll be sharing those bees with any anyone who wants them. As a matter of fact, um our Bee, when we teach a course at the end of the course, I get everyone to join a WhatsApp group. And we're we're going to start communicating that information to each other when we need to, when that starts. I mean, in the meantime, we're communicating other Bee stuff. We all talk, we all communicate um with each group.
01:07:44
Speaker
but eventually someone's going to say hey I've got some survivor colonies here who needs a swarm or I'm going to say it or Georgette's going to say it or Fred's going to say it and we're going to share those those swarms amongst ourselves and and hopefully we'll build up some resistance in the bee colonies quicker than what they would naturally build up because they're going to do it naturally It's happened all over the world. South America, North America, England, Germany. There's wild bee colonies living wildly without treatment on their own. All over the world. We just got to be patient. Now the beekeeping industry isn't patient. Of course we're going to lose a lot of pollination. Sure we are.
01:08:28
Speaker
and I don't know what to say. But maybe they can treat if they want to and they can keep treating and jumping on that treadmill. But do us natural beekeepers and do us hobbyist beekeepers in need to do that?
01:08:40
Speaker
I don't think so. I would hope that there's a bunch of us out there that helps perpetuate these good genetics that bees can then start to thrive without our intervention.
Ethical Honey Sourcing
01:08:52
Speaker
That's my plan. It's not my plan, that's the plan I've been shared, people have shared with me from all over the world. I feel so happy to hear that.
01:09:02
Speaker
So one final question for you Adrian. So Bush Butterfly, it's a lovely name, has asked how to ethically source honey for our diets? What should I look for? Okay, so good great question because the best thing you can eat is localised honey. So honey from your area.
01:09:21
Speaker
The plants are constantly talking to you as you walk barefooted through your backyard. picking up through the there's ah There's a gland in the bottom of your foot and they're picking up what you need and they're producing what you need. There's science about this. what yes You can't just say that at the last minute! Holy shit! Okay we will just research that but carry on. is this There's a lot of done on propolis and certain tribes in certain areas where where certain plants are giving medicine through propolis, through the propolis the bees are producing to combat certain illnesses in certain tribes. This is the kind of shit you get on on his course people.
01:10:05
Speaker
There you go. And on your put the podcast So anyway, so really the best thing you could do is is source a local beekeeper. I'm not talking about a massive commercial beekeeper. Please don't buy supermarket shelf honey, right? Sorry guys.
01:10:23
Speaker
But there's ah there's a really good thing called the honey map. Simon Malvani from Save the Bees Australia. He's got a honey map on his on his website website. So um look up Save the Bees Australia and and go to his website. I don't think his website's called Save the Bees Australia. I'm trying to remember of him.
01:10:41
Speaker
find it yeah Anyway, go to the honey map, put in your postcode and it will show you all your local beekeepers if they've registered on there and and and go see them. Because they're yeah they're usually small scale beekeepers. Small scale beekeepers are the ones we want to support.
01:10:58
Speaker
because, you know, they've probably got 150, 200 hives. They're still treating their bees really well. Ask them if they're using miticides yet, probably not, because if you're in if you're in Victoria, you wouldn't be yet. It's probably hardly any mites here. Certain parts of New South Wales, they're starting to new to use it. If you can't get local honey, I'm gonna give my mate Tim, what do you call it when you... A massive plug. A massive flag, that's the word. Look, Tim Malfoy in the Blue Mountains. And I'm gonna be honest, this is honest. I'm not saying this because I love Tim, but I buy Tim's honey. Even though I'm a beekeeper. I honestly asked my wife.
01:11:41
Speaker
he he He's got some of the best honey I've ever ever had in my life and I've eaten honey all over the world because he keeps his hives on on private properties that border the national park, the Blue Mountains National Park.
01:11:56
Speaker
So his bees are foraging in that national park, that diverse flora. And they're bringing all that goodness in, all that pollen, all that honey. He cold presses his honey. Cold, he crushes his combs. He doesn't do what the commercial guys do. He's got over 200 hives you know and he manages them this way.
01:12:13
Speaker
His honey is delectable and it's super healthy. So support a small scale local beekeeper and get onto Tim Melfroy's. It's called Melfroy's Gold. Again, he's got a website called Melfroy's Gold or beekeeping naturally straight no natural beekeeping Australia is his website.
01:12:37
Speaker
yeah otherwise Otherwise, Joe Blow down the road, or Mary down the road, give them a good, you give them your money, because they need it. Believe me, if they're small, they need it. Help your local economy. Make sure they don't ultra filter filter the honey because then it's you know got no pollen in it and it's not that good and make sure they don't heat heat treated he heat extracted cold extracted honey that's what you want as soon as honey's heated over about 36 degrees it starts to lose its goodness so make sure it's cold pressed and that's that's when you're going to get the benefits of the honey
01:13:15
Speaker
I hope that answers the question. And more. Well
Conclusion and Future Content
01:13:19
Speaker
Adrienne, I believe you have a date with your queen bee mother tonight. My mother, yeah. I can't even say my mum. So I'm going to let you go, but you just put so much goodness into the world and I really appreciate you sharing some of that with us today. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate this. Good on you, Katie. You're doing a great job too. I really enjoy it. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Cheers. See you everyone.
01:13:47
Speaker
That was Adrian from Beekeeping Naturally, whose work and workshops and wooden hives are all linked in the show notes. No, you're not imagining things, you're not going mad. We did deviate from the 10 things script for this episode, harking back to the tangential conversations of your, but it just felt like the right format for Adrian, who is such a gentle, masterful storyteller. I really hope you loved that one as much as I did. What a beautiful conversation to soak in.
01:14:14
Speaker
We've still got a few more ins installments of Rascilians before we wrap this season to keep you grounded and astounded all through the holidays, even if the astonishment is you just asking, don't you have something better to do than upload podcasts over the holidays, Katie? Well, no, I actually can't think of anything I'd rather be doing. And next week's episode with Kat Levers is truly a Christmas miracle.
01:14:38
Speaker
with zero references to religious holidays. Super jazz to share that one with you and marry everything in the meantime.