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Cabin in the Woods with Imogen Ive image

Cabin in the Woods with Imogen Ive

S4 E14 Β· Reskillience
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912 Plays10 days ago

I share a recipe for de-zombifying your life before chatting with Imogen Ive, Director at Mittagundi – a remote 520 acre farm and off grid education centre built by and for young folks in the high country. This convo is a reminder that sometimes hard is good, together is better and a pack horse, tent and sense of adventure beats air conditioned comfort any day.

In the conversational cauldron:

🍯 Setting up a working farm and outdoor ed centre in the middle of nowhere

🍯 Living without modern comforts, electric tools, phones or watches

🍯 Wilderness adventures for young folks from all walks of life

🍯 An oh-snap safety vs. risk reframe

🍯 The dilution of outdoor ed in schools

🍯 How to facilitate confidence and capacity in young people

🍯 Why we don’t try new things, and how to hack our fear of failure

🍯 Bringing off grid flavours to the urban palate

LINKY POOS 

Mittagundi Outdoor Education Centre

Mittagundi on Instagram

🧑 Support Reskillience on Patreon 🧑

✏️ Leave Reskillience a written review like a big old legend ✏️

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Transcript

Introduction to 'Riskiliens' Podcast

00:00:03
Speaker
race scallia Hey, this is Katie and you're tuned into Riskiliens, a podcast about the hard, soft and surprising skills will help us stay afloat if our modern systems don't.
00:00:18
Speaker
These sound waves are lapping your way from Jara Country, Central Victoria. where the neighbour is drilling and the moon is waxing gibbous about four days away from being full.

Reflections on Travel and Volunteering

00:00:32
Speaker
So i've been thinking wistfully of Tasmania, my favourite island state, which is where I went to volunteer on farms in my twenty s Maybe I've mentioned parts of this story before, but I had been studying and working in Sydney with a promising path as a naturopath plotted out in front of me.
00:00:52
Speaker
And yet the more I talk to people about nutrition, that carrots aren't all created equal and that soil beats supplements in scissors, paper, rock, the more I said all these things, the more hollow they sounded because they were coming from the vaulted ceiling of my head, not the deep authority of lived experience.
00:01:13
Speaker
So I quit everything and drove down to Tassie using help exchange, which is kind of similar to wo woofing, which is willing workers on organic farms. I use that to connect with all kinds of agricultural projects. I worked on a pig farm, a flower farm, a market garden, and at farmer's markets.
00:01:34
Speaker
Later in my 30s, I used the same format to explore Japan, harvesting oysters, growing veggies, and raking fallen cedar fronds at a zen meditation retreat.
00:01:45
Speaker
And these experiences didn't just add weight to my wellness theories, they didn't just join the dots between the food system and our organ systems, they woke me up when I didn't even realise was sleepwalking.
00:01:58
Speaker
I felt more alive than ever after splitting 12 tonnes of firewood in the height of summer and then jumping off the pier. You couldn't wipe the smile or the mud off my face after digging taro all day in the pouring rain in Japan.
00:02:13
Speaker
covered in foreign soil microbes, and later that evening coming face to face with a bear outside our paper-thin lodgings, I discovered the bliss of bedragglement, the joy of jelly legs, the wonderment of weariness, the hard work of working it out with other humans, and the shared meals that make it all worthwhile,
00:02:34
Speaker
the sleet in my face, the sweat down my back, the stars overhead as I squatted for a midnight tinkle in a frosty paddock. And it taught me that perhaps when we feel like something is missing from our comfortable, temperature-controlled lives, it could just be contrast.
00:02:51
Speaker
Maybe we need a bit more hot and cold, loud and soft, day and night, wet and dry, work and rest, famished and food baby. What do we lose when our days are too smooth?
00:03:02
Speaker
I wrote this intro from a squishy armchair next to the fire with a cat melting all over my lap, and I have to say, life is pretty cushy. And I almost choke on the privilege of saying, maybe things are a bit too easy.
00:03:16
Speaker
It's tragic and kind of ironic when the lifestyles to which we aspire, once attained, leave us drained. It just feels beige and blah.
00:03:29
Speaker
Comfortably numb, I think is the term. I'm sure there are many ways of addressing this particular genre of discontent, including selling all of your possessions and running off into the woods.
00:03:40
Speaker
But most people will have trouble doing that. So my preferred method of de-zombifying yourself is by leaning into volunteer opportunities, like the ones that I've described.
00:03:51
Speaker
And these opportunities take you well outside of your comfort zone, whether that's for a day or a month or a year. And they generally don't cost anything and they teach you stuff. And in the case of help exchange or woof or work away, also give you a place to stay, which solves the housing puzzle.
00:04:07
Speaker
Even if you have kids and a neurotic labradoodle, there are farms or projects that will accommodate you. And I can pretty much guarantee that you'll have to do things you don't want to do, which at the end of the day, create the friction that makes the spark that rekindles the fire in your belly.
00:04:23
Speaker
Perhaps today's conversation will be that inspiration for you as well, because you can literally volunteer on this project that we're talking about or send your offspring there for a good old fashioned initiation.

Introduction to Imogen Ive and Mitagundi

00:04:34
Speaker
When Imogen Ive, who's today's guest, got in touch about Mitagundi, an off-grid outdoor education centre for people aged 14 to 17 that stands for everything Reskillience does and more, I needed no further convincing to have her on the show.
00:04:50
Speaker
This was such a winning convo. We talk about the massive capacity of young people, safety and risk, off-grid problem solving, bushcrafts in the city, and lots of other juicy stuff.
00:05:03
Speaker
For the next two years, Imogen and her partner Kal are the directors of Mittagundi, which I didn't quite realise until towards the end of our chat is a volunteer gig. A huge thanks to Imogen for taking time out of her slow tech life to jump online record this conversation.
00:05:18
Speaker
And you'll find all things Mitagundi in the show notes. Raskilliance is wholly and soulfully funded by you. a bunch of passionate listeners pay a little bit each month to enjoy the show, which is the most resilient model of funding that I can think of.
00:05:33
Speaker
It's like having a hundred laying quails or one emu. This community-supported model also offers complete freedom to experiment and share without the subtle pressure to sell shit.
00:05:45
Speaker
I would feel very awkward talking about pissing in a paddock or saying fuck at random intervals if a business was putting their name to this. All of these small creative compromises would over time add up to a very different podcast.
00:05:57
Speaker
I see this in so many well-funded, well-meaning projects, like you have to please this person and that person until your message is just another polite way of saying absolutely nothing. So your pledges are helping Reskillians play in a parallel space, and I'm so gratified by that.
00:06:13
Speaker
Thanks to everyone who contributes to this podcast, and that can be done at patreon.com forward slash Reskillians. I also want to give a special mention to Janine,
00:06:24
Speaker
Maya, Susie, Meg and Mick, who always give me pep talks or have chats with me about the themes from each episode. And it's just bloody amazing to receive real human feedback when most of the time I'm just megaphoning into space.
00:06:39
Speaker
Holy shit, I owe you an episode. So let's dive into this one with Imogen Ive and here's to feeling alive.
00:06:49
Speaker
It is just such a cracking day here and it's made me realise that It hasn't been blue skies and sunshine for such a long time. And like, you probably see the sun just pouring in the office window and it almost feels criminal to be inside on a day like today. And I just want to be outside. I would just love to be in the forest everywhere, but, you know, engaged with these devices. And I thought that was really fitting speaking with you today, Imogen, because I know that you have seized that more simple life way and I'm really excited to to just try and like even tease out how you got there and what you get up to in the higher country.
00:07:26
Speaker
How do you like to introduce yourself? I'm Imogen. I'm one of the directors at Mitagundi. I work with my partner Cal. We share the role. I've been working in outdoor education for a couple years.
00:07:39
Speaker
Before that I was working in local government, but Midi Gundi is a full-time gig. So we live up here. We work up here. And this yearning that I probably share with a lot of people to be in a wood cabin in the hills.
00:07:52
Speaker
Do you kind of have a little giggle sometimes when people express that desire because you are kind of literally doing that off the grid up there in a really remote location and you know that it's maybe harder than it seems?

Life and Challenges at Mitagundi

00:08:07
Speaker
i think it can be harder in some ways, but I think that that's what a lot of people want. They want to have something to do that isn't just scrolling on their phone.
00:08:19
Speaker
And I think that I'm amazingly um privileged to be able to live somewhere that has been built and constructed um and built up before I got there so that we kind of have stepped into this.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah, these beautiful cabins, beautiful kitchen. beautiful property and it's not ours but just getting to live here and experience that is pretty unreal pretty pretty cool yeah yeah can you take us through a bit of ah a visualization exercise on where it is exactly that you're living and what Middagundi entails Yeah, so Mita Gundy is in the Victorian high country on, I would say, the more remote side of the mountain.
00:09:02
Speaker
we're on like the other side of Falls Creek, north of Omeo. The closest pub is probably an hour away we're an outdoor centre. So we're an off-grid farm as well, a working farm and and property. We're on about 400 acres out here, but a lot of it is just bush.
00:09:23
Speaker
And we back onto the national park on I think at least two sides of the property. So it's gum trees all around trees. There are some neighbours in the valley, a small community around us as well. We all help each other out with whatever comes up.
00:09:40
Speaker
There's some really great people around us as well. Yeah, I was going to ask you about neighbours and what your relationship with those folks would be, given that I'm sure there is a pretty big distance between you. Coming in as a director at Mitigundi, there are lots of people who know more about Mitigundi than you ever will just spending a couple of years here. These people have been involved.
00:10:01
Speaker
Since the beginning, they would have known Ian Stapleton who founded the place. We have one neighbour in particular, Gordie, who whenever there's a plumbing issue that we can't fix, we'll like, hey, Gordie, this is going on.
00:10:13
Speaker
It seems really complicated. We just can't figure it out. It's so hard. We've spent two days looking into it and he'll just be like, oh, yeah, you probably have an airlock here. This happens all the time. Run the pipe downhill. And of course it works.
00:10:27
Speaker
because he's just seen so many staff teams and directors go through the same thing and been there to fix it. So little things like that. And in 2003, we had really bad bushfires up here and the neighbours in this valley saved Midagundi. They saved the property.
00:10:45
Speaker
Midagundi wouldn't be here without our neighbours. They have literally saved the place during those sorts of fire seasons. So... We're eternally grateful for them and we love it when we get to spend time with them and have dinner when we're not busy and those sorts of things for sure. Yeah, what was the original intention behind Middagundi? Was it specifically built as an outdoor education centre or like a residence?
00:11:11
Speaker
ah So it was started way back in the late 70s by a guy called Ian Stapleton and he worked for Outward Bound and he worked for Timber Top, the Geelong Grammar School.
00:11:23
Speaker
program where the, I think it's the year 10s go and they spend a year in the mountains. And he just saw what an amazing opportunity that was for young people, but maybe felt a little bit frustrated that it was only being offered to this elite group of students whose parents could afford um to pay to send their kids there. So he just wanted to start up essentially like camps for city kids in the high country.
00:11:48
Speaker
And he found this location. I'm sure there's a complicated story about how it ended up in his hands, lots of fundraising, real grassroots kind of networking and fundraising and speaking to people who might have land and property. And um so he was able to buy this block.
00:12:04
Speaker
And at first, Middagundi had buses instead of buildings. So Ian had bought all these old buses off the old tram people in Melbourne and had Most of them didn't even have working engines, so he towed them up with his little car and burnt out his clutch like 100 times over.
00:12:24
Speaker
And that's where the young people slept in the first camps at Middagundi, in these old buses that had been gutted out and some bunks had been put in. I'm pretty sure there was like a kitchen bus somewhere. And then the girls bus and the boys bus and, you know, over time, over all these years, the camp has been built by the young people that have come through. So they've been involved in building all the cabins, all the accommodation, the woodshed, the garden shed, the chook shed.
00:12:51
Speaker
Everything has really been done by young people with guidance, of course, from leaders and directors. But it's been a slow journey. process and probably it will always be an ongoing process.
00:13:03
Speaker
Is that participatory kind of maintenance and development element of Minda Gundy, the fact that the kids, are sorry, the young people do everything there, is that like a major focus and intentionality behind Minda Gundy?
00:13:19
Speaker
Miragundi because when I did some nature-based leadership training a few years ago, it struck me that um as a part of that program, we did a lot of the things on the retreats as well. They weren't a retreat, you go get catered, have everything like put in your lap and then you passively receive information. It's like the learning was the collaboration with each other to cook those meals or to dig dig the composting toilet trenches or to, you know, make shit happen. And it was integrated in that way. It wasn't like this compartmentalised process learning experience that then had no you know integration with the rest of reality or the things that we just need to do as humans so with Mitagundi the young people are like as you say building and tinkering and fixing is that that's like intentionally inserted into the program right yeah 100% when they come on a course with us we sort of invite them into the fold of
00:14:14
Speaker
um the everyday running of the place and if there's jobs that need to be done, they help out because we know that they're capable because we know that we they can. you know we These are 14 to 17-year-old people that come on our program.
00:14:27
Speaker
We don't need to babysit them and hold their hand. They are physically capable. They can figure things out that sometimes they're better at coming up with solutions than we are.
00:14:39
Speaker
They're very creative. They really... get the opportunity to prove to themselves that they can do that stuff when you just give them the opportunity. I think that's really, really important that they go, well, I would have never have thought that I would be able to make a ramp to a chook shed. I wouldn't know where to start.
00:14:56
Speaker
let alone using these hand-powered drills to get the screws in. And then they give it a go and they can do it. And I think that just builds the confidence in them. And throughout the whole program, they're getting those little challenges that they can do and that just builds them up.
00:15:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it's so brilliant. And my heart breaks for all of us who haven't had that experience or opportunity but and then obviously taking responsibility for that at whatever time we find ourselves, whatever stage of life.
00:15:25
Speaker
we're in. Did you have that granted to you as a young person, Imogen? I'm thinking back to being a kid and mum was like, oh yeah, yeah, we need to chop down that tree. You can, here's here's the axe, you go give it a go.
00:15:38
Speaker
I'm tired, of that sort of thing. Or um helping clean the gutters and little things like that and going camping. And then when I was a bit older, when I was probably 17, I was able to go hiking with my friends.
00:15:53
Speaker
And sort of parents would drop us off, be like, okay, meet you here in a couple of days and did have that freedom. And I think when you're a young person, I just found that so amazing to just go off into the bush with my friends and nothing truly bad ever happened. Sometimes we might have made poor catering decisions or socks got wet and that was a bit uncomfortable, but you just felt really alive and like you just on an adventure that's such a cool feeling when you feel like you're on an adventure and it's easier to give that feeling I think to young people than adults probably because when you're young things can feel more like an adventure when you're not used to having as much freedom when you get a little bit of freedom it feels so good
00:16:40
Speaker
I mean, is there a name for this this type of philosophy in supporting young people to flourish into the fully fledged people that they can be?

The Value of Risk-Taking in Youth Education

00:16:49
Speaker
It just seems so different to the safetyism that I guess we even see as necessary in our culture today. Like we have to keep young folks, kids, children, little and safe. Like that's just the rules.
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Like how do you describe this this other way of doing things? Yeah, I think probably people like John Marsden would have had good words for it, like healthy risk taking.
00:17:15
Speaker
But I think it's interesting that at the moment in our sort of technological day and age, we give young people a lot of freedom to move about the digital world, which is arguably a lot more dangerous, but then in the physical world we restrict them quite a lot. And I think that's just interesting. I feel like it should almost be the other way around.
00:17:35
Speaker
they should have more freedom in the real world with their physical bodies and then we give them more emotional safety but we seem to give them a lot of emotional risk and physical perceived safety which isn't always long term the best for them when they don't know the capabilities of their own body and their own strengths.
00:17:57
Speaker
Yeah such incredible insight and spin on things and reality check. We spoke like on the phone before this interview about um you're an outdoor educator and you have seen a bit of a watering down of what that can be too for young people and I'd love to hear your thoughts on that too Imogen around like what young people do and don't have the opportunity to get their teeth into in schools and why that might be.
00:18:23
Speaker
Yeah I think it's such a complicated, multifaceted problem that we have. I guess to start with, you have such a range of schools and funding arrangements. So you tend to see in outdoor education that private schools have a lot more outdoor ed than public schools to start with. Just basic funding, equipment, gear, being able to pay staff extra to be able to go on camps.
00:18:48
Speaker
So obviously you're going to see more outdoor ed in the private schools. But even with that, we're seeing a sort of watering down of that the level of camps, I think.
00:18:59
Speaker
um So you might have a school where the year eights used to do an overnight hike, but these days they're just doing a base camp with some day hikes and maybe some day activities. instead and I think it's a real challenge dealing with the pressures from for starters you need teachers who want to go do these challenging things as well and that can be a big ask when teachers already stretched so thin and they have so much work to do then say all right you also have to go on a five-day canoe journey with your home room a lot of them i just don't have the capacity for that and or might not want to do it and they might not want to do it for the same reason young people don't want to do it because it's challenging and it's uncomfortable at times and
00:19:38
Speaker
you'll be wet and cold. And so it's teachers, it's parents as well who are very focused maybe on the academic success of their students and don't see the value in outdoor education. Funding, teaching, time in lieu, rules changed recently in the um education sector, which has affected camps across the board, primary school, high school, having schools having to pay more to cover the time in lieu. And teachers, of course, should be paid fairly, but that's just a flow on effect as well is that a lot of schools are saying we can't afford to send our grade fives on a camp.
00:20:15
Speaker
And if they're not doing it in primary school, then it's more of a jump in high school. And then those high school camps, instead of being the, you know, the third or fourth camp kids have gone on, it's their first camp and you probably don't want to send them on a five day hike for their first camp um when it's their first time away from home. So yeah.
00:20:33
Speaker
It's very, yeah, very complicated. But I think it's amazing when you give young people the opportunity, they just they just step up to it and they just can really surprise themselves. And I think surprise parents and teachers.
00:20:50
Speaker
as well you see a lot of kids who I don't know teachers might be like oh you've got to be careful with them they're going to be they're going cause you a lot of trouble you just might have to keep an eye on them and they're the most helpful kids when they're on camp because they're not in the classroom setting they're doing something maybe physical and they can really step up to what they're doing out outside of the classroom and then that's going to give them the confidence that when they go back into the classroom, instead of being always like the naughty kid or maybe the kid that struggled a bit, they're they're coming back with this big success under their belt that they actually really, yeah, really succeeded on camp.
00:21:29
Speaker
I'm just thinking it'd be really great if... the mainstay was outdoor education and places like Mittagundi. And then you give kids like a little bit of office time just to see how the that people used to live or something before we actually broke free of that oppressive system.
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah. Like how valid do you think the education system is in terms of sitting in a classroom and foisting facts on a child versus life skills? It really depends what the end goal is, doesn't it?
00:21:59
Speaker
I think if you want to be an engineer or a doctor, you probably do need to yeah it really hit the books, especially in VCE. But for most people, that's not what they want to do. so we need to make sure that we're providing options for all students, whatever their life looks like. And those, yeah, real life skills are probably being watered down a bit to make way for academics.
00:22:27
Speaker
Likewise with wind camps, I think Midi Gundy is also saying that it can be real it's a lot harder to fill camps during school term than maybe it was 20 years ago. um There seems to be more hesitation to take young people out of five days of year nine class.
00:22:48
Speaker
And I know that they're going to learn so much more in five days at Midi Gundy than they're going to learn sitting in the classroom for five days. But it's just, you know, a fear of falling behind and such a strong focus on grades.
00:23:02
Speaker
Well, as a young person, I would have been very happy to master the art of splitting wood economically and ergonomically efficient way. I know that you give young people axes. How do you get away with these things? Is there some kind of like paperwork sorcery that you're able to do to cover your arses if something happens? What's the um logistical side of running a place like Mittagundi?
00:23:26
Speaker
We just know where the risks are and we we manage them with appropriate, say, PPE. We're not going out there splitting wood in sandals and without safety glasses on. We're going out there with our steel caps on, with our long pants on, with our gloves, with our glasses on.
00:23:44
Speaker
I think in risk management, you go, what are your risks? And then you go, how do we manage the risks to bring it back to ah safe level in anything? So,
00:23:54
Speaker
you know, what are your risks? Whitewater rafting, hypothermia. How do you avoid that? We have wetsuits, we have a hot lunch, we have hot chocolate on the river, and then therefore we've mitigated that risk.
00:24:06
Speaker
ah That can be done for lots of things. so What's the risk of splitting wood that you might get a splinter in your eye? How do we mitigate that? We wear safety glasses and then you bring that risk down. um So I guess it's about going, we still want to do these challenging things.
00:24:19
Speaker
How do we put the appropriate safety measures in place, which means that we can still do them without having to get rid of them. Whether that's, yeah, splitting wood on the farm or rafting on the river or going hiking.
00:24:31
Speaker
We just find a way to make it happen instead of just giving on it is a way of way of putting it. Talk us through some of the activities and the the doings and the goings on at Mittergundi.
00:24:44
Speaker
Yeah, so on a typical 10-day Middegundi program, you spend three days walking in, um so over Falls Creek, down the mountain, and then with our pack horse Winnie and the rest of the group, and you get to Middegundi and then you're really just welcomed in and become part of the community at Middegundi for four days. So you're expected to milk the cow if cow needs milking, to feed the chickens, collect the eggs. You will have that in the kitchen, you will help out in the garden and then you will collect food from the garden. You go cook that in the kitchen.
00:25:18
Speaker
And as we might've mentioned before, if the fences um need fixing because the tree has come down, then we will help with that. And we will divvy out jobs in the morning so that we all have something meaningful and purposeful to do for the day. With those four days on the farm, we'll also swap. So groups will go abseiling and a beautiful natural cliff um overlooking the river, which You, the rope is only about 25 meters, but you're up above the river. So it feels like you're 200 meters up.
00:25:47
Speaker
It's beautiful. And then we'll also spend a day on the river, whitewater rafting and just having fun and being creative and silly and helping each other out. And then at the end of the time on the farm, um we make all the young people walk back up the mountain, which I think is always probably in the back of their minds when they're spending time on the farm that Oh gosh, we walked all that way down. We have to walk all the way back up.
00:26:15
Speaker
But they all do it, most of them. Getting through a 10-day Middagundi course is not something the young people can do by themselves. They need each other to get through it as well. And I think it's really beautiful to see that.
00:26:29
Speaker
Every young person will have a different challenge. For some people, it'll be a social challenge. They might feel really uncomfortable um not knowing anyone. For others, it'll just be physically getting up that mountain, putting one foot in front of the other. Who knows what it could be? It could be that they're homesick. They're not used to it being so cold. It could be anything.
00:26:50
Speaker
And it's so beautiful when you see them look after each other sometimes before even yeah we know about it they've already been helping each other out in whatever way that might look like teaching each other how to put a tent up how to stay warm that kind of thing how to cook meals they might explain to it someone might have never cut an onion before it's confusing if you've never done it before but they'll they'll help each other out so that they can all get through it together I'm going to say fantastic a lot in this interview because that's my primary response to all the things you're saying. I'm interested in knowing all the things that you're learning from witnessing this adaptability and this resilience in in young folks who may, like you said, have never chopped an onion before and like what you draw from that personally.

Lessons in Self-Reliance and Community

00:27:36
Speaker
It can be really inspiring to just remind yourself that we can do a lot of things and just because we've never done something before doesn't mean that we can't do it and just give it a go.
00:27:49
Speaker
Often, especially these days, we tend to think that we need to outsource if we have a problem or if we need to purchase something.
00:28:01
Speaker
We don't necessarily first look towards ourselves and our own skills. We kind of, I think, look elsewhere to see if we can buy it or if someone else can do it. Being around Midi Gundi, where if we do have a problem, we just solve it. And that includes the young people. Gives me a little bit of strength to be like, ah i can also just just do the thing.
00:28:20
Speaker
and And there are certainly lots of things that we come across every day. Yeah, we're also capable. Capitalism tries to tell us that we're not, but we are. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, what do you think is underneath that desire or that habituated response to just pay for the solution? Like, I'm really curious about what goes on in my mind to make me you know, someone who understands the implications, not just for ourselves, but the planet in outsourcing so many things.
00:28:49
Speaker
I still find myself looking at a package of food, like it's somewhat better, somehow better than something I've made from scratch or yeah, new clothes as, as more exciting and more appealing than something I've had in my wardrobe. And I'm trying to hack that psychology because I think it is about like novelty and it's just a habit in so many cases, but it's like, okay, I can mend my clothes and it actually adds value because it's making them beautiful and unique and special to me. Like how much fashion cachet am I going to have with this mended piece of
00:29:20
Speaker
piece of gear rather than something I bought and maybe with food it's like make a beautiful label so that it absolutely like shits all over the thing you're going to buy from the store like make it beautiful make it attractive but yeah I wonder like what you see as those cognitive barriers to us not wanting to do the thing ourselves yeah that's such a good question it's probably quite deep fear of failure yeah sometimes that you know if we give it go it might not work You might think make things worse.
00:29:49
Speaker
Sometimes, you know, you do love that jumper. You want to mend it and you want it to still look nice. You don't want to look hideous. 99% of the time, it will be beautiful. But when you haven't done something before, when it's your first time trying something, you don't know what's going to happen. Whereas if you're buying something, say a food thing from the supermarket, you know that it's being it's good enough to be in the supermarket. So other people might like it.
00:30:12
Speaker
Whereas if you're trying a new recipe, youre you don't know how it's going to turn out. Yeah. Yeah, no, I really try and emphasize these kinds of things because it's like, you know, we can access every single how to in the world on YouTube and obviously in books as well. Like we have this library, a wealth of resources at our disposal, but it's like, how do we get ourselves over the line on picking up some of these skills? And for people such as yourself who are really living, like it's very connected and it's its it's sometimes uncomfortable and it's challenging. Like how do you talk yourself through those first times and cold nights and wet socks? Like what what goes on in your head as someone who's like putting themselves in this situation and and just having a go? Yeah.
00:30:56
Speaker
I think everything's easier with other people to start with as well. Not doing it by yourself when you're feeling challenged or or you're facing something you've never faced before.
00:31:07
Speaker
Just to be able to talk to someone and be like, this is how I'm feeling right now. I don't know if it's going to work or I don't know if I can do this. And just for them said to have your back and encourage you, whoever that is, friends, family, partners.
00:31:22
Speaker
feel like that's really powerful. We can do so many more things together than we can by ourselves just to have someone say you know you're not crazy it it'll probably work or if it doesn't work it's not the end of the world I think other people help get us outside of our heads give us give us a bit of bit of strength when we're doubting ourselves absolutely I love that it's so true and and now I'm thinking how do you set yourself up to be in a situation where you might have someone who wants to skin a rabbit with you. Like, I think a lot of people too now find themselves in a situation where they're quite alone
00:31:58
Speaker
maybe not physically, but in their values or in their interests. And it's like, how the hell do i wiggle my way into a context that's going to support some of these like harebrained schemes or nature-based activities that I want to give a shot? Like, how did you find yourself in such an amazingly rich kind of context? And I think I think sometimes there is a bit of strategy involved. Like we have to really consciously ask ourselves what we want and how we're going to get there. Otherwise we can find find ourselves like quite alone or divorced from that community of like-minded souls. Like what was your journey?
00:32:32
Speaker
When you got someone, it doesn't have to be a partner. It could be a friend. who also shares maybe more wacky out there ideas that that's so great. And it's funny because you go back and you talk to other people and you're just like, oh you guys, doesn't, doesn't everybody just think that these days? And it's no, it's still a bit fringe, but you'd be, I think you'd be surprised. there's lots of people who are open to things. They might just not have articulated it before or heard it before. Like you say, skinning a rabbit. Yeah.
00:33:04
Speaker
Yeah. Not many people do want to think, oh, what am I going to do on this weekend? Skin a rabbit? But, I mean, you might be surprised. You might go to friends who you don't think would be interested in that and they go, oh, yeah, oh, I'd want to give that a try. I want to know more about where my food comes and take responsibility for my food.
00:33:24
Speaker
I'll come help you out or maybe they'll just watch the first time. don't want to get too involved. But, yeah, giving people credit for the fact that if you're thinking something, there's a good chance that other people are thinking things as well. And maybe in similar spheres, think working in outdoor education, lots of people have similar values, obviously care about the planet, about being in nature, which is really helpful in terms of finding like-minded people to have those sorts of conversations with and to do those sorts of things with for sure.
00:33:56
Speaker
But Yeah, you never know. like You never know. Yeah, no, I think that's that's so true. Like we do have a palette of shared values that might sit beneath the surface and just given um the opportunity to really show show their true colours, like a lot of people would be into this kind of stuff because it's the stuff of life, right? Like, yeah, it's it's fascinating trying to learn or remember how to be how to be humans.
00:34:22
Speaker
I wanted to talk to you about the subtraction of technology at Nita Gandhi and what it is that you minus out of the equation, technologically speaking, for the young people who come.
00:34:34
Speaker
Yeah, sure. It's definitely something that makes us unique from other outdoor education centres. There's lots of reasons why, but that's probably a big one.
00:34:44
Speaker
Most camps, it's sort of expected that you'll hand in your phone. But we go a little bit further and it's not a black and white rule. And it's not like we have a big list of things in a book somewhere where we say these things aren't allowed and these things allowed.
00:35:01
Speaker
I think what it comes down to is what will... take people out of the experience and that's the kind of stuff we want to leave behind. We put that in our modern world box and we don't touch it until we get back to the train station.
00:35:16
Speaker
There are obvious things yeah like phones, music players, I guess that's phones for most people these days, but even things like makeup, mirrors, we don't love young people bringing personal books, which obviously that's not a modern world item, but it can take people away from the experience of interacting with other people.
00:35:38
Speaker
Young people can use it as a bit of a crutch. If they are feeling socially awkward, which totally understandable, I would be the same. But if you get rid of that, then they're sort of forced to come out of their shell. Makeup, I think for obvious reasons, we don't need to worry about that in the bush. We're just, we come as who we are. We don't have snacks from the outside world. Don't bring chocolate and lollies on camp.
00:35:59
Speaker
We all eat the same food. We all eat together. we all eat communally. We cook things from scratch. We're not eating lollies in our cabinet night, giving me ourselves a sugar high. But then on the property, it's similar.
00:36:10
Speaker
We have a little a little bit of solar lighting in the kitchen and communal spaces, but we still use a lot of hand tools, not electric appliances, a lot of hand-powered tools so that we're using our bodies um when we need to make things.
00:36:25
Speaker
And we'll never allow a technology just because it makes something easy because The most efficient way is not always the right way. And when you make things too easy, you end up with nothing to do. And we've outsourced it all to technology.
00:36:41
Speaker
and then we're bored so we go on our phones and we that purposeful work when you've spent all day and you're hot and you're sweaty um you feel so good once it's done it's such an amazing feeling when you're just physically exhausted but you have something to show for it i think that's a really big reason why we want to keep doing as much by hand as we can at meeting one and also you just don't need a lot of technology.
00:37:10
Speaker
I think there's a lot of marketing around, oh, you need to buy this thing. It'll make things easier. But then the amount of upkeep it needs, their maintenance, the built-in obsolescence, so then you need to buy another one in three years. Honestly, it's probably more hassle than it's worth a lot of the times.
00:37:25
Speaker
Our hand-powered drills that are probably 60 years old are still going strong. I'm not sure how long a Ryobi drill would last, but probably not that long.
00:37:37
Speaker
So well said. and I'm having inordinate numbers of conversations lately, especially like everyone's talking about AI and it's just this huge thing that's worth, very much worth talking about and trying to set some boundaries around a really understanding is this good for us is this is this really going to serve us but within those conversations my question is like what would we rather be doing than the process like I'm I'm a writer some of the time and I can just ask chat GPT to write a pretty good approximation of my like happy-go-lucky style of writing but like
00:38:11
Speaker
I want the excruciating pain and agony of writing because that gives me life. It helps me process it. It draws the stories out that I didn't realize were there. it It's the meaning, the thread of meaning through my days. It's like weaving these words and what then? Like what then if that's not part of my life? And then there's this other, like you alluded to, I think it's called the Jevons paradox where you make something more efficient and then you actually, you don't regain your time.
00:38:41
Speaker
there's more and more capacity to do more and more of the things. So it uses more and more energy or more and more of your attention.

Technology and Presence in Nature

00:38:47
Speaker
And it's like the the booby trap basically of the things that say they're going to make our lives easier, but actually then just compound. And I'm thinking about like all the apps that promise greater productivity, but now we're just in charge of a fleet of apps that are like dinging and pinging all day.
00:39:02
Speaker
So yeah i just, I'm really curious about like you in that context, Imogen, and how does this experience of like being really quite present in a way that a lot of us aren't, how is that changing your life? And then how do you go back to the real world, which I hesitate to call the real world? It sounds like you're living in the real world.
00:39:22
Speaker
What does that look like for you? Well, I would agree. I think Mita Gundy is the real world. And places like it. Yeah, when you say, oh, going back to real world in Melbourne, I'm not sure that's quite right.
00:39:34
Speaker
I think you feel so much more well, I feel so much more present in whatever it is that I'm doing, less pulled in multiple directions in my brain. i don't have this little attention seeking device in my pocket um when I'm at Middagundi.
00:39:54
Speaker
And it's you get to be a bit more intentional about how you use technology. So instead of being like, oh, I have a random question that I don't need an answer to right now, but I would like to know. And then you get out your phone and then you look that up and then you get distracted and you go on another app and Maybe you didn't actually end up Googling the question you originally had in the first place.
00:40:13
Speaker
um You can't do that. You have to wait until you can use your your phone again in town or wherever. And yes, that intentionality, I think, is really, really different. And I find myself a lot more peaceful at Mittagundi.
00:40:29
Speaker
And I think the other beautiful thing is how much more connected you get to be to the seasons and to the natural world around you. When you're living without technology, you...
00:40:41
Speaker
notice how cold it is ah more when you have to light a fire to stay warm rather than just press a button on the heater which automatically will give you the right amount of heat so that you're at the set temperature it's so so different when it's like oh is it cold enough to light the fire I'm not sure maybe or when there's very limited lighting you notice the length of the days and um when the sun sets and Even just the other animals around you and the other species that we're lucky enough to share the planet with, that's a really beautiful thing as well.
00:41:19
Speaker
And you notice when it's cold, you notice when it's raining because you're out in the rain. You just notice all all those little little things when when the trees change, when they start shedding their bark, when the grass at the moment has gone all wintery and yellow. And it it's strange because that's my first time sort of seeing this landscape.
00:41:38
Speaker
look like that in the pastures and yeah you just notice it more and what are some of the more than human entities around you like what what is filling in that big swath of like greens and browns and yellows around you like some of the species or some of the animal friends who might come and visit We've got heaps of kangaroos around the property and some wallabies. I'm pretty sure the kangaroos are eastern grace and we've got some wallabies as well.
00:42:06
Speaker
We've got heaps of birds and I think I'm noticing different birds at different times of the year, maybe. We've got the kookaburras who love to come out. when we're splitting wood and eating all the grubs.
00:42:19
Speaker
We've got bowerbirds and currarongs. We've got little robins. They're gorgeous. And then we've got our farm animals, of course, that that live with us. So we've got our two horses, Winnie and Arby. We've got six cows at the moment.
00:42:33
Speaker
um We've got heaps of of chooks and a rooster who we get to share share the place with. And they look after us and we look after them. Lots of rabbits, of course, it's Australia.
00:42:44
Speaker
And even some hares, which I, first time I saw one out here, I thought it was like a big dog or something. They're huge. So yeah, rabbits and hares as well. yeah Beautiful.
00:42:57
Speaker
And what's the deal with like running the place when young people aren't there? Is there always someone in residence? Yeah, so when we're not actively running a course, um the team still lives up here year round. So we have farm days, we have days off, but we also have farm days where we still work on the property, even when there's not young people here.
00:43:19
Speaker
And then when we have an extended break, we have lovely people in the community who will caretake the property for us and help look after the animals and and the buildings while we're away. And what are you thinking after your tenure here? I know it's it's a couple of years that you spend as directors, is that right? like What happens next? is there Is there any fear that it's actually quite hard to access a life this simple? Like what are you going to do off the back of this experience?
00:43:45
Speaker
Well, so before Cal and I um got the job at Minagundi, we were living in Brunswick in the city, in Melbourne, and It was always the dream to get out of the city and have like a bush block, be able to grow a lot of our own food and be a bit more self-sustainable.
00:44:02
Speaker
And then I was already working outdoor ed. Cal was working in finance before we came up, but has worked in Outred for many, many, many, many years. So Middagundi was just such a great opportunity.
00:44:15
Speaker
But I think the the goal is still to live an intentional life, whether that's on our own property, who knows? But we'll definitely take a similar approach moving on than we do at the moment.
00:44:29
Speaker
But exactly what we'll do once we leave, I'm not sure. Not at the moment. You'll have a lot more skills under your belt by the sound of you. Yeah.
00:44:41
Speaker
Maybe I'll become a plumber.
00:44:47
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, there things that you you've been learning that you never expected to have to have mastered or at least like tried your hand at? Every day.
00:44:58
Speaker
and I'm sure some of it is just because I am a silly city kid. who hasn't grown up using gravity-fed water systems and didn't grow up with cows and pigs and chickens. So there's something every single day. How to get rid of an airlock in a water system, how a look after a sick calf, how much you feed horses and Everything, every day, all the time, really.
00:45:28
Speaker
Within the team, we have sort of job areas. So it would be, you know, someone's job to look after the garden, someone the pigs, someone the plumbing, the fencing. And it's so great to see our team as well.
00:45:42
Speaker
just be like, well, I've never looked after pigs before, but it's my job area, so I've just got to learn. And they do, and they're great at it. We all just kind of step up in that way.
00:45:53
Speaker
it's a lot of it is reactive, i think. Something will come up and be like, okay, we've got to fix this. How do we do this again? But we also have a great support network and people we can call on as well, which is always a great way of learning from other people that have done it before.
00:46:10
Speaker
For sure. That combination of putting yourself in the way of things and not really have any escape routes, but an amazing support team around you. Yeah, that is the winning formula. Because otherwise, we can just kind of think our way out of a lot of opportunities and experiences.
00:46:26
Speaker
But when the, you know, the water's not flowing or something like that, you've got to fix it. You just have to. Do you guys slaughter the animals there? You mentioned pigs and roosters and chickens and stuff. Is that part of the the goings on?
00:46:40
Speaker
Yeah, so all the meat that young people eat at Mittergundi is animals that we've raised at Mittergundi. So it does mean that a lot of the meals at Mittergundi are vegetarian.
00:46:52
Speaker
But then we do have like ah a roast night on the last night and we'll have a couple other meat dishes in there. But the beef and the pork um we do. Because of the like food safety regulations in Victoria, those animals...
00:47:07
Speaker
have to go to an avatar. So they go to a slaughterhouse and then we have a ah great butcher in Mount Beauty who then butchers up all there the animals for us and then we get them back and have some big old freezers that we keep it in. So that's a really important part of the philosophy and showing young people where their food comes from because, oh yeah, it's cute that we're bottle feeding this calf,
00:47:34
Speaker
we're going to eat its auntie for dinner. You know, that's that's just the fact of it. um I think it's important for, well, I think it's important for everyone um to say that, but especially young people.
00:47:45
Speaker
If you are going to eat meat, that this is where it comes from and you have to be okay with that. And middagundi meat is probably like the healthiest, happiest, some of the healthiest healthiest and happiest animals possible. So they should should be okay with eating it. And if they're not, then I don't know if they can,
00:48:04
Speaker
sit and reflect on whether they do want to eat meat. That's such a shame that the you have to send the animals away to then come back again. And I know there's like so many regulations around the sale of meat and not having home kill meat that's for sale. But yeah, I'm surprised that you can't have like an on-site thing that just stays, that stays there and feeds people, but you're not like selling the meat to them. But yeah, I'm sure there's a reason for that. But that's, that really bums me out that they have to go away from their home. Yeah.
00:48:35
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. think it's one sort of piece of the puzzle where it would be almost a perfect setup if we could just have a butcher come on site.
00:48:45
Speaker
And i would love it if there was some change there in the laws, just in terms of just seems like so much unnecessary stress on animals. If you have a good butcher, who knows what they're doing, who's clean and sanitary, but Yeah, at the moment, at least in Victoria, you could have the best butcher in the world and they wouldn't be able to come on site. They need to go to a slaughterhouse.
00:49:07
Speaker
Yeah, what we were speaking about before in terms of like finding other people to get up to this stuff with you as a form of solidarity and like momentum.

Sustainable Practices in Urban Settings

00:49:17
Speaker
Like one of the questions I wanted to ask you is how, if people are listening from like an urban environment or feel like very separated from this life that you're describing out there in the mountains, I've always seen these opportunities where something feels really contrasted or disparate that there's actually, there's a really good story around trying to do things in a, in a different context. Like skinning a rabbit in the middle of the city. Like, I don't know how you go about doing that, but there's something really quite delicious about the harder the challenge is, or the more you think something doesn't fit in a certain situation.
00:49:48
Speaker
It's actually a really cool thing to lean into. So yeah, I wanted to ask you about like bringing some of that Middagundi flavor into people's um lives and homes who may not be out in such a wild setting.
00:50:01
Speaker
Maybe it's easy to kind of ask for yourself, like, what do you take away from Middagundi and like, what do you keep keep going in your life after you've maybe come back down the mountain and you're onto the pavement? Yeah, just when you were talking about that, it made me think Kal and I's apartment in Brunswick.
00:50:17
Speaker
And we had a ah small courtyard because we were on that like the bottom of the block of flats at the front. And the joy it brought us that we lived in an apartment in Brunswick, but we had a banana tree and an olive tree and an orange tree all in pots.
00:50:33
Speaker
One summer, I think I probably got like eight kilograms of tomatoes. Probably would have been more if the possums didn't get to them. Growing lettuce and carrots and all sorts of things.
00:50:45
Speaker
just in the city and it brought me lot of joy and probably partially from what you're saying as well, from the this shouldn't work, but it is. We're making it happen just in lots of different pots instead of in the ground. We even had, yeah, this might've been against the rules, but a little fire pit as well. So we could sit out the front, but obviously we're right on the pavement. So it was just walking past as we were, you know, having a glass of wine by the fire in our little courtyard garden. Yeah, and I think there's so many ways that you can just start small.
00:51:22
Speaker
That's probably always going to be the way to go and just find out what you can do instead of saying, oh, I couldn't do that until I moved out of the city. And I think Cal was probably really great at reminding me that, being like, you know, just look we can do what we want here, you know, instead of just being like waiting until, you know, we have our place one day, just start now with what but we can do. i think that's really, really important because otherwise you could spend years waiting for the right time to do things or live a certain way.
00:51:52
Speaker
you don't need to often. Totally. One day is such a right a red flag when I have that thought as well. it's like, wait a second, what can i do today, right now? And again, like the creativity that you have to exercise in adapting something to fit like a so ah different environment actually brings a lot of satisfaction and joy and I love that image of you sitting really close to there the the sidewalk with a fire. And that was another one of the huge opportunities that I saw like when we were in in ah in Melbourne.
00:52:22
Speaker
Like the visibility that you have with your neighbours, the proximity of the houses, that that's actually the networks that you can form and the um the values you can role model just constantly.
00:52:34
Speaker
doing your thing in your front garden is so powerful. Like we're such visual animals and like just seeing other people is a slow normalization process. And um there's a lot to be said for like sticking with that too. And I mean, i can't really talk because now I'm in the country and yeah, it's very different, but like big fan of being the people who stay with, stay with those challenges and really forge fun and exciting and colorful ways in the most unlikely of places.
00:53:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's great. And our little garden in the courtyard sparked heaps of great conversations with neighbours and people walking by for sure.
00:53:12
Speaker
So as we as we come to the the end of the conversation, some wrap-up questions, I am actually really curious about like what drives you and what underscores your life basically, like why you do what you do.
00:53:26
Speaker
And I've been thinking, you know, i care about I care about the state of the world. I am devastated by so many things that are happening. And then this little voice is like, are you doing enough? Are putting all of that knowledge into a neat package and creating and giving that every single day like are you doing enough and yeah i want to know if you've kind of had those thoughts running through your mind as well and whether working in an environment like Mita Gundy giving yourself to that project feels like a really worthwhile way to spend your time and energy that's such a
00:54:01
Speaker
Big question, isn't it? am i What am i doing with my because life? But I think I have a lot to wake up for. Yeah, for sure.
00:54:12
Speaker
It is amazing what 10 days can do to a young person, to their confidence, to... their outlook on life to them in the future, looking at things and going, hang on a second, we can do it more simply. We can do it more sustainably. That one time when I was 15 and I went to Middagundi, we just pooed in wheelie bins and it was fine.
00:54:36
Speaker
You know, I feel like life at the moment has a lot of ah lot of purpose. Yeah. That being said, you always feel like you can do more in anything that you're doing.
00:54:49
Speaker
I could sit here being, going oh, but I could be doing more in the garden. i could be doing more to make Midagondi even more sustainable. I think that's just a natural part of when you're passionate about something, you're always looking for ways to to do better and to do more. But we can all be kind to ourselves.
00:55:06
Speaker
We're always doing our best. Yeah, yeah, we definitely are. And what are some ways that people can be involved? Like if that's possible at Middagundi, do you have like a volunteer program or any ways people can touch in with you guys?

Invitation to Join Mitagundi Community

00:55:23
Speaker
Yeah, 100%.
00:55:27
Speaker
We're all volunteers at Mitagundi. So me, Cal, the staff team, the the board, it's a volunteer run organisation. there's hundreds of ways to get involved. We always love having volunteers come up on our programs. So if spending time in the mountains, helping out running the program for young people.
00:55:47
Speaker
something people are interested, they can always, always get in touch and we can get people out on programs. And then we have lots of community events throughout the year in Melbourne, as well as our festival up here, that if people just want to come up and see the place, that's a really good way coming to the festival.
00:56:05
Speaker
what's What is the festival? The festival is usually over a weekend and it marks the end and the beginning of the Middagundi year in terms of the old staff team finishing and the new staff team beginning. And we have an adorable little bush dance at the Glen Valley Hall on the Friday night.
00:56:26
Speaker
And then Saturday is like, an open day where we have demonstrators and we have music and an open mic, the Midagundi Olympics, we've got the porridge eating competition, um all that sort of good stuff. It's just a fun day of the community connecting. Midagundi really is this big, vast community um and it's amazing being in this role, meeting people who have been involved for many, many years, you know, who knew Ian, who founded the place, coming back and helping out and new people just who've heard about us recently who want to get involved. So, yeah, come visit and write us a letter. We love letters.
00:57:08
Speaker
Oh, what a great invitation. Yeah, that's very cool. Bonus points for a handwritten letter. Yeah, we'll write you one back. Nice. Is there anything I haven't asked you, Imogen, that you were wondering excited to talk about in this conversation it's all exciting was excited about everything we talked about let me too I'll probably remember tomorrow We can add like a little voice memo tacked onto the end.
00:57:35
Speaker
like A lot of people write back to me and they're like, damn it, I wanted to talk about that and the other thing. And that is, it's just how human minds work, hey? Like they relax and then all of the things come like rushing in. Maybe only to say that Midi Gundi is really passionate about any young person having the opportunity to come on our camp. So if people are in sort of a sticky financial situation, we do have people who will provide sponsorships um so that any young person can come on our courses.
00:58:04
Speaker
I think that's really important that we don't want any young person to not have the opportunity to explore and grow and have fun in the mountains. yeah Oh, yeah, fantastic. I was so adult-centric in my, how do people like me come and get involved, like not being a 14, 17-year-old, but of course directing people to how, you know, maybe their offspring can be part of this is also a helpful thing.
00:58:27
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So, oh, yeah, all our courses are up on our website. People do have, yeah, 14 to 17-year-olds in their life that they think would benefit from coming to Middagundi.
00:58:39
Speaker
Nice. I will link all of those tasty morsels in the show notes. And what are you up to after this conversation? think we might try the airlock procedure.
00:58:53
Speaker
Is that happening right now, the plumbing issue? Most of the plumbing's working. There's just one little line that we can't figure out. um So we might do that or it's getting getting to the end of the day. So...
00:59:06
Speaker
We're probably going to do a little checkout with the team and I might go have a shower and read a book. Oh, yeah, that sounds lush. I always used to get airlocks in. I was living at Meliodora in a little, it was called the Tea House and it had the gravity fed water. And I just could never quite master the art of like French kissing the tap and sucking the air bubbles down so that it would regain its flow.
00:59:28
Speaker
it's It's quite ah an amazing like facial procedure. Do you have to suck on the pipes? Is that like part of it? Have you done that before? yeah i of pre proceduresia
00:59:40
Speaker
I'm just thinking about the one of the taps is in the pink pen. I'm not seeing my face anywhere near that. tab Yeah, that's the next level.
00:59:50
Speaker
ah Well, it is so delightful to talk to you, Imogen. I really very excited to release this into the world. And thank you so much for your time this afternoon. Thank you, Katie. it was so lovely speaking to you. and hopefully you can come up and visit soon.
01:00:05
Speaker
Yeah, I'd love that.
01:00:07
Speaker
That was Imogen ive one of the current directors of Mita Gandhi, an off-grid and delightfully analogue stronghold of real skills and resilience. Check out their programs and ways to get involved via the show notes.
01:00:21
Speaker
And yep, an episode with Lord George is up next. And after that, I'm going to be kicking off a new season of Reskilliance. And what does that actually mean? i don't even know, but I'm sensing a seasonal shift, perhaps some reflecting and refining, renewing my vows to the show's values and reaching out to guests I've previously been too intimidated to approach.
01:00:42
Speaker
It can be really scary holding these conversations, you guys, but if they inspire, enliven, encourage or comfort just one or two people, what's a few nerves, hey? If Reskilliance has touched you in some way,
01:00:53
Speaker
Not literally, unless you have the volume cranked and can feel the vibrations. But if you love the show, consider leaving it a written review on Apple or five stars on Spotify, because that will probably boost my chances with fancy guests who might be like, who the fuck are you? And it just makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
01:01:09
Speaker
So thanks to everyone who takes a minute to do that. You all rock. I love you. And remember to moonbathe this week.