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Episode 90: The Possibility of Something Better
191 Plays4 years ago
Today I welcome back Katelyn James to the Brands that Book podcast to talk about a subject that I've largely avoided: the quarantine. For those of you who have listened to the podcast the last couple weeks, you know that I've tried my best not even to mention the Coronavirus. I've really tried to focus on business during this season. I just feel like there's so much noise out there about what's going on in the world and personally I've been trying to cut out as much of that noise as possible lately. But the reality of the situation is that it is a tough season.
There's a lot of uncertainty in the future. I know in conversations that I've been having with Krista, that one of the hardest parts for us is just been not knowing what the end date could be and what life might look like in a couple months. So, I think there is an important conversation that can be had in this season around dealing with uncertainty and what it looks like to live well in this season.
I'm excited about this conversation because I think what Katelyn has to share is life giving, as so many conversations with her and her husband Michael are. What I appreciate about Katelyn is that she doesn't try to minimize the severity of the situation. She's not just saying, “Oh, just look on the bright side,” but rather she recognizes the tough situation and opens herself up to the possibility that something good could come from it, even when things are really tough.
Hopefully you find this conversation as refreshing as I did. And we do wrap up the conversation by chatting about what businesses can be sharing about and doing in this season, and some of the ways that others in the industry are innovating.
For the show notes, go to https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-katelyn-james-episode-90/
Recommended
Transcript
The Mindful Approach to Life
00:00:05
Speaker
Paying attention to where you let your mind go is probably one of the best things that Michael and I have learned through that experience. I try to create this vision of how do we want to show up in this? And when you have that, then you have a clear distinction of like, do I choose this thought process? What's going to point me towards what I ultimately want?
COVID-19: Introduction and Impact
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative, service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:41
Speaker
Today, I welcome back Caitlin James to the Brandsub Book Podcast to talk about a subject that I've largely avoided, the quarantine. For those of you who have listened to the podcast the last couple of weeks, you know that I've tried my best not even to mention the coronavirus. I've really tried to focus on business during this season. I just feel like there's so much noise out there about what's going on in the world. And personally, I've been trying to cut out as much of that noise as possible lately.
00:01:08
Speaker
But the reality of the situation is that it is a tough season.
Finding Meaning in Uncertainty
00:01:11
Speaker
There's a lot of uncertainty in the future. I know in conversations that I've been having with Krista that one of the hardest parts for us has just been not knowing what the end date be and what life might look like in a couple months. So I think there is an important conversation that can be had in this season around dealing with uncertainty and what it looks like to live well in this season.
00:01:34
Speaker
I'm excited about this conversation because I think what Caitlin has to share is life-giving, as so many conversations with her and her husband Michael are. What I appreciate about Caitlin is that she doesn't try to minimize the severity of a situation. She's not just saying, oh, just look on the bright side, but rather she recognizes the tough situation and opens herself up to the possibility that something good could come from it, even when things are really tough.
00:02:00
Speaker
Hopefully you find this conversation as refreshing as I did.
Caitlin James on Graceful Resilience
00:02:03
Speaker
And we do wrap up the conversation by chatting about what businesses can be sharing about and doing in this season and some of the ways that others in the industry are innovating. But that's enough for me. Now, on to the episode.
00:02:21
Speaker
Caitlin James, welcome back to another episode of the Brands of Book Podcast. Happy to have you on. Thank you. This is the first episode chatting about the coronavirus and the quarantine and all of that. I really don't think that there's a better person to be chatting about this season than you.
00:02:38
Speaker
Wow, that is a high honor. I consider that a compliment. I'm excited though. It's been a while and I see everyone else that you interview and all these friends and just high performing business people. And I'm like, man, you know what? It'd be fun to talk to Davey again. So thanks for inviting me back.
Managing Quarantine Anxiety
00:02:55
Speaker
Yeah, I wish it was under better circumstances, but like I said, I just think that you're really the perfect person to have this conversation. As I told you before the podcast, I've really avoided talking about the quarantine and the lockdown on the podcast because I think to a certain extent, all of us are just being overwhelmed with information about that. And of course, that's on our mind all the time.
00:03:16
Speaker
But I do think that it is important to chat about it with friends and with family and to work through it. And I think that chatting with you, you were one of the first people that came to mind in terms of chatting during this season because I think you deal with traumatic situations and tough situations with such grace, I guess. I guess what I mean by that is you're not scared to be vulnerable and you don't
00:03:39
Speaker
just glide past the hard stuff. You seem to dig into it. But at the same time, you always share it in such a redemptive way, I think. So I guess just watching you, watching Michael go through different situations the last couple of years in particular, I thought you'd be a great person to have this conversation with. Well, thank you. That's quite an honor. And it's honestly, it sounds probably
00:04:02
Speaker
I don't mean this to sound like Debbie Downer, but I enjoy talking about it. I enjoy talking about pain, I guess, which is never something I thought would come out of my mouth. But I think that's just because the experience that we've had with it has really not just affected us in trauma. It's affected every part of our life. It's actually been something that changed a huge part of us. So I do enjoy, I'm grateful that I get to talk about it because there are a lot of people that wouldn't want
00:04:29
Speaker
to do an interview about it because it's not fun, but it is real life, especially in the season we're in right now. Like pain is kind of a part of everyone's life in some capacity everywhere right now.
Choosing Peaceful Thoughts
00:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, I mean, I know personally, I've noticed that sometimes with situations that cause anxiety, I sort of carry it, you know, I can almost feel it on my shoulders. And when I'm not intentional about, you know, asking myself, you know, why it's there, and why I feel that way, and working through it and talking about it with Krista, then generally, that anxiety manifests as frustration and just, you know, snapping at Krista or not dealing with just, you know, my normal everyday life in productive ways.
00:05:09
Speaker
And going into the situation, I think mentally preparing myself that, okay, the lockdown is going to be tough, quarantine is going to be tough. And I find myself at my best by taking certain actions through my day, mostly just handling things one step at a time, waking up, getting some quiet time in, getting to work, focusing on the tasks each day, trying to remember that I do have some extra time with Jack during this season.
00:05:35
Speaker
And then I find myself at my worst when I start playing at, you know, the what if game, you know, start thinking about, well, what's life going to look like in July? What if the lockdown's not over by then? What does that mean for September? And then it just spiraling downhill from there. So I guess just to start, what are some ways that you and Michael and your family have sort of been dealing with this season?
Vision for Growth in Adversity
00:05:55
Speaker
What are some of the conversations that you all have been having? Yeah, I, well, first of all, I resonate completely with the idea of, you know,
00:06:03
Speaker
choosing everyday how you show up do you show up in panic do you show up in peace despite circumstances and that is a decision that i think in the midst of something like this whether your trauma is referring to the pandemic and how that's affecting you or there whether it's any other type of. Hardship in your life that's like a decision you you can make every morning but honestly in our situations in the past that's been like a.
00:06:27
Speaker
sometimes an hour by hour decision. It's a thought by thought decision. Like this is popping in my head constantly. I can't seem to beat it or overcome it, but I got to start figuring out a way to decide what I'm going to let it do to me. You know, how far am I going to let it penetrate into my mind and my heart and start affecting other areas of my life? And what is actually truth? You know, and I think we learned so much about that, you know, early on in our parenting or motherhood journey, really.
00:06:55
Speaker
It's funny, I feel like we normally only talk about the fact that we lost our son at
Trusting in a Greater Purpose
00:07:01
Speaker
31 weeks, but the truth is we were kind of prepped for that trauma when I was pregnant with our first and I was diagnosed with aggressive tumor that literally just showed up overnight in my right hand, which it was the knuckle of my trigger finger, which as a wedding photographer is terrifying.
00:07:19
Speaker
And I think back to, I was awake during the surgery, nine months pregnant, so I couldn't go under anesthesia. So they literally had a blue like wall up and they were taking this tumor out of my knuckle and the doctor left the operating room and said, I'm going to take this up to pathology and I'm going to come back. And he was a really funny guy, like dry sense of humor, which kind of appreciated because it was such a serious situation. You know, he looked at me, he held up the tumor in a little jar, which was bizarre.
00:07:46
Speaker
I'm laying there like talking to the anesthesiologist woman. He literally looks at me. He goes, I'm just going to take this upstairs and see what you have. And I knew what he meant. Like he meant, I'm going to see if you have cancer or not. And I remember just, that was like such a season of me having to decide. I could either go down the rabbit trail of the what ifs and be so, I mean, I could literally have cancer and this is just the first place it's shown up.
00:08:13
Speaker
I'm going to start chemotherapy
Transformative Trials and Growth
00:08:14
Speaker
and they're going to take my baby early via c-section. That's how my parenting part of my life is going to start. That was a very real reality. I remember I couldn't let myself go there. I had to think through what growth and what positive aspect of my thought life is going to come if I just let myself go down this rabbit trail. What you said about
00:08:36
Speaker
Paying attention to where you let your mind go is probably one of the best things that Michael and I have learned through that experience with my tumor, through our experience losing a child. It's the worst case scenario. It only drives me further and further away from what I ultimately want in that season of my life as far as a vision is concerned. Like I try to create this vision of how do we want to show up in this? And when you have that, then you have a clear distinction of like,
00:09:05
Speaker
Do I choose this thought process or what's going to point me towards what I ultimately want? So when Michael and I are in this pandemic, sometimes he's reminding me or I'm reminding him that we know how we want to show up by the end of this, right? We want to show up at the end of the pandemic and know that we were open to the possibility that maybe as hard as this is, maybe it isn't all just bad. Maybe there is growth and there's something that
00:09:33
Speaker
that God wants to do in the midst of pain. Because in our past story, that is like the overarching theme constantly, is that every bad thing that has happened to us in the last three years,
Pain with Purpose
00:09:46
Speaker
there has been this growth that like, if I had a choice, I mean, obviously I would always choose to have our son here, always. But if I had a choice to sacrifice the growth that we experience through the pain in our life,
00:10:00
Speaker
versus never going through the pain, but never growing, I would go through the pain all over again, which it was really painful. That's hard to say. So, sorry, this is a long winded answer, but basically when you have a vision for how you want to show up in pain, then you can help hold each other accountable to choose and make decisions that lead you towards that vision ultimately. And when it comes to our vision, I think we ultimately in the pandemic, we want to remember that
00:10:28
Speaker
this hardship and this trial, it's purposeful. It has to be. If not, then gosh, life just stinks, right? It's just purposeless pain. I don't know how we would all survive it, you know? So I think a lot of people live in that reality that this just is awful for me. I just got to get through it. Where the reality is, I think as human beings, if we could learn to sit and not rush through the hard stuff, we would actually see the fruit of it more clearly on the other side.
00:10:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's really powerful. And there's just so many elements of that that I feel like I struggle with in particular, mostly that sitting, right? I was listening to a podcast recently and they talked about the focus was, you know, is around Easter, of course, the focus was the
Post-Pandemic Self-Reflection
00:11:11
Speaker
cross, but specifically Mary sitting at the foot of the cross.
00:11:14
Speaker
and everything that she must have been dealing with. But you just see this model to a certain extent of peace and Mary's posture towards God and just letting God be God. And I struggle so much with that. And I struggle sitting here in this moment thinking – and I think that's what leads to that anxiety is like there's nothing I can do about it right now. There's nothing that I can do that's going to
00:11:36
Speaker
you know, certainly cure the virus, cause the lockdowns to end, you know, any sooner than they're going to end. And for me, I think that causes a lot of anxiety and I have to remember to sit back and let God be God. And remember too, I mean, just to speak to your point that, you know, when I get anxious, you know, my natural actions, I want to go and I want to do nothing, you know, which doesn't solve anything, right? I mean, that's really the choices. You can do nothing which is going to lead to nothing, right?
00:12:06
Speaker
or you can get up and you can take it one task at a time.
The Role of Supportive Friends
00:12:09
Speaker
And I can focus on, okay, right now that's my time with Jack. And so I can be a good father to him because he doesn't know what's going on. But ultimately the impact of spending time with him and being present with him is going to have hopefully a positive impact on his life. Just listening to you talk about this pandemic is completely, this is not a personal pain point. You don't have the virus, but it's affecting your life. It is such a universal problem.
00:12:34
Speaker
What if the gift in it for someone like me and like you, who I love control, I love having my business in control, I think you probably share that same desire. What if the gift to us is in this season, God is basically saying, like, Davey, Caitlin, I know that this is
00:12:55
Speaker
a pain point for you in all aspects of your life, pandemic or not. And you literally can't do anything. But if you can learn in this pandemic to sit in it, like I loved your, I don't know why I've never thought of that before, ever, but Mary just sitting and watching what happened to her son. I mean, I have chills saying that. I've never thought of that. I'm really glad you mentioned that, but that is the most powerful example
Business Resilience During Pandemic
00:13:20
Speaker
of just trusting. This is the most painful thing I've ever witnessed. I can't imagine watching my child. I can't imagine. But she had to trust that God had a bigger plan for the pain. And if we can just have a glimpse of that purpose and pain that she had in the midst of this, and maybe the fact that we literally can't do anything. You can't make the governor open up business. We can't make a vaccine. We can't fix it at all.
00:13:49
Speaker
What if there is a hidden gift in sitting in it and having to learn to trust, even though we hate it and to be able to move forward and live our life with peace, even though we don't have answers. And I just think that sometimes people miss the gift in pain because they're so ready to get out of it. And that's a natural human response. Why would anybody choose to sit in something that's uncomfortable? But I think what I've learned is, you know, the waiting game, the uncertainty, pain,
00:14:19
Speaker
The longer you're in it, the more powerful it becomes. But as humans, it seems almost irresponsible to choose to sit in pain longer than we have to. And would you say that some of the most transformative, I guess, maybe even realizations or moments in your life have come in kind of in the midst of those seasons? Oh, my gosh, yes. I mean,
Blending Personal and Professional Life
00:14:39
Speaker
our marriage, my faith. I mean, I hate to say it, but it almost sounds
00:14:45
Speaker
Like Caitlin, did you take things seriously beforehand? But it's like I needed some of this craziness to happen in order for me to really have my eyes open to what I wanted in my life, what I wanted in my marriage. There was nothing intense enough to make me change until I went through some of the stuff we've gone through. So yeah, the transformation, it's kind of like we're doing the study in James with our small group and you know, the verse of,
00:15:12
Speaker
Consider it pure joy. It's like, well, that's an easy verse when you're not in trial. Consider it pure joy is when you face trials of any kind. And just Francis Chan is doing lead in the study and he just gives the example of like, you know, when you put something under intense pressure, like a silversmith with metal and you just heat that metal up and the impurities rise to the surface through the pressure and the intensity of the heat and the pain. So all these impurities rise to the surface so much so
00:15:41
Speaker
that you can wipe them away. And then when the metal is cooling down from the pressure and the pain, you can actually see a reflection in it, which when you think about it from a faith perspective, if we're trying to become more and more like Christ and like it is a refining process. And I have seen that and I hate it. Like I hate how painful it is, but like,
00:16:02
Speaker
If that is part of our story, like that we are living through pain to be refined so that the impurities in my life can be kind of brought to the surface. I mean, we have seen that happen so many times and it's almost hard to believe really. You look back and it's like, what was the impurity in the struggle that I worked through with a tumor in my hand? Well,
00:16:24
Speaker
You know me, you know, KJ 1.0 was a workaholic and I was getting ready to be a parent. And I literally lost the use of one of my hands for three months and I had to step back from my business. And through that pain, I mean, I literally became a different person and my priorities shifted drastically right before I had my first baby. I mean, the Lord know he knew I needed that. And I'm just so thankful that I had to sit in the pain long enough.
00:16:53
Speaker
To see the purpose I think some people don't ever get there and then they live their whole life thinking. I just went through this awful thing why me like why this happened to me and they never get to a point of seeing. The bigger storyline of their life.
00:17:08
Speaker
Yeah.
Innovative Business Strategies
00:17:09
Speaker
And you were talking about a vision and I think that's so helpful as well. Even just asking yourself what kind of person you want to be on the other side of this, you know, because eventually we're all going to be on the other side of this. And when we look back, you know, when we look back to we want to say, okay, well, we're the kinds of people who, you know, trembled in fear and, you know, just were paralyzed, not able to do anything because of what's going on. Or are we the kind of people who, you know, kind of dig into this pain a little bit,
00:17:37
Speaker
sit in a little bit and hopefully open ourselves up to, as you put it, the possibility of some sort of transformation in this season. One thing I want to ask you about moving from your experience with Evie, your first, onto James, because from what I remember, and again, it seems like forever ago, even though I know it's only a few years ago, right? But with Evie, from that situation of finding about your knuckle to it actually being removed, I mean, how many months was that about?
00:18:07
Speaker
So it started to show I started having pain in my hand in November. So it was basically all of December and January until we got the surgery and found a hand oncologist specialist. So about two months time. Yeah. And then fast forwarding to James, you know, that mean two months is not a short amount of time. We're finding that out right now, right? All the last two months for all of us has felt like forever. But
00:18:32
Speaker
Moving on to your experience with Jane, that took place over the course of many months. And then of course, the impact of that, it wasn't like the knuckle where they removed it and said, hey, there's nothing here, it's gone. Yeah, it's miraculous.
Encouraging Business Innovation
00:18:47
Speaker
So, I guess my question is, you know, there had to be moments through that season where you're kind of pulling yourself back to a better head space, I guess. And so, what does that look like? You know, because I found that true even of the season in my life where, you know, I'll go for a couple weeks and feel pretty good and feel like I'm in a good spot with everything and then, of course, have a really bad day or really a series of really bad days.
00:19:11
Speaker
So I guess in sort of struggling with a season like this, how do you sort of pull yourself back into, you know, this better mindset for lack of a better way to put it? Is Michael crucial in that? Like, do you all find your I guess I'll stop talking and just let you go. No, no, I mean, that's a great question. I would say Michael is the best at I get worked up and anxious about projecting what's going to happen to the business, right? I'm not super worried about
00:19:40
Speaker
I mean, our kids don't even know a pandemic is happening like that. If this goes on forever, yes, I can get a little panicked, but I really start to freak out when I think about wedding photographers financially support our life.
00:19:54
Speaker
and wedding photographers are losing all their money. So like in my mind, I start going down this trail of like the end is near for us, right? And I just really, I started to think about all the things I need to do to try to save our membership program because I just know the cancellations are going to come running in and we got to pay my sister. We got to pay two other full-time employees. And Michael is the voice of reason that comes in and says, I know that you want peace in your business life and your personal life. That's your vision. I know you've said that.
00:20:24
Speaker
How is what you're thinking about in the rabbit hole that you just spiraled into? How is that pushing you towards your vision? Because if you sit in your office freaking out about this and thinking about worst case scenario and then it's lunchtime and you're going to go out and try to do lunch with our kids, you're going to be stressed. They're going to, even if you try to hide it, they're going to feel the weight of what you just put on yourself that you didn't have to put on yourself. Cause what's true right now is
Concluding Thoughts on Peace and Purpose
00:20:50
Speaker
that we opened up our vault.
00:20:52
Speaker
and let people have access to everything. And we have more members now than we did before. The truth is if we allow ourselves to not live in fear, then all of a sudden there are so many other possibilities. But the fear, it almost seems like, I feel like it's my responsibility as the go-getter, the business owner, it's my responsibility to be fearful and to be anxious. Because if I'm not going to worry about it, who is? You know, I said it all the time and Michael,
00:21:18
Speaker
Michael just always says to me, he's like, have you ever thought about the possibility that you could still be responsible without being so anxious? And I'm like, you know, you're probably right. So I definitely feel like Michael through having a vision and through reminding me of what is actually true. He just kind of pulls me back from the ledge and I am so thankful that he can, he doesn't freak out about that stuff. In his mind, he always says, Caitlin,
00:21:45
Speaker
If everything falls apart, I'll go work at the Apple store. We'll be fine." Like that's his response. He'd be perfect for it. He'd know every product back and forth, you know, everything that's going to be released. Yes. So then I go back to our season with James and honestly, sure, it was the decision and the communication and the coming back to a healthier mindset was so much harder because
00:22:12
Speaker
You know, my mom or Michael or no one wanted to tell an eight month pregnant woman with a dying baby inside of her. You know, well, what is true? Caitlin, no one wanted to remind me of anything because it was so traumatic and so sad. I remember though, there were a few people that were brave enough and Michael and my sister, mostly that were brave enough to say, you have every right to be upset and every right to be so sad and devastated.
00:22:42
Speaker
But I know that your vision in this season is to love him while you have him and to be healthy in your marriage because most people don't survive a story like this. A lot of marriages fail after a late term stillbirth. It's just too sad and too hard. You have a bigger vision for yourself. And I'm so thankful that in my lowest can't get out of bed pits of despair moments that they reminded me, you know, that this is not going to be my story forever. This is not going to be my reality forever.
00:23:12
Speaker
And how do I want to show up in the midst of it? And honestly, you know, there were other women who had been through similar stories and they were bold in their emails and their messages to me. And they said, Caitlin, one day, one day you will be on the other side of this. Your son will be in heaven. You will have survived the craziest day of your life. But you may actually look back. If you allow yourself, you may actually look back and have fond memories of your time with your child that you didn't get to keep.
00:23:41
Speaker
but you still had him. And if you choose that in the midst of your pain, then you're going to love that outcome on the other side. And I have to believe that's true for this pandemic. Like, yes, I know it's awful. I don't want to belittle anyone's pain or struggle at all. But when I stand back and I allow myself to think, okay, ultimately I want to end this season at this place. This is my vision. You know, I start to see the good stuff. I mean,
00:24:09
Speaker
There's beautiful stuff happening for everybody, even when it's so hard to see. And I just, not to be this positive poly that just like is not in tune with reality. That's not my goal. But I know from experience that pain is not only painful, there are good parts to it, but you just have to be willing to let yourself see it.
00:24:28
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And it's not an excuse to go put yourself in painful situations necessarily, right? That's not what we're saying. But again, one of the reasons I wanted to chat with you specifically is because, you know, I don't think you, you don't just blow by the pain, you know, and you, I guess, honestly recognize that it's there. Also, I mean, I feel like Krista plays a very similar role as Michael plays in your life with me, you know, I almost feel like
00:24:52
Speaker
Oh, it's my job to stress out about what's going on in the business and wondering, and similar to you all, we serve service-based businesses mostly. And service-based businesses in particular are just not, they're not working right now. Most are shut down, most are locked down.
00:25:08
Speaker
So, you know, a lot of those same fears and anxieties in our life right now. And Krista, for better or worse for me, very low tolerance for letting me, you know, stay in that, you know, sort of pit of despair as she calls it. But one thing, she probably got this from you. She does that video. It's basically she takes a video of Jack every day and it's strung together in an app, you know? And she showed me that recently starting at the beginning of quarantine.
00:25:33
Speaker
and she's like look you know this season I know it feels hard this season has been so full of joy you know especially around our time with Jack so lots of what you're saying was resonating as we tie up this portion of the conversation you talk a lot about other people in your life you know speaking
00:25:49
Speaker
truth in your life or challenging you, how important do you think it is for people to be connecting with others? And who specifically? Because there are a lot of voices out there and I assume even during that season with James that maybe there were some unhelpful voices as well. Some voices that you wish you never heard from. I guess how important is it to be connecting with people and what kinds of people should we be connecting with during this season? Hopefully that question makes sense.
00:26:15
Speaker
Yes, no, it definitely does. I think that we need community now more than ever, just because I know for me, if I'm alone with my own thoughts too long, I start to kind of lose track of what is actually reality. I had example back in January, I just hadn't really had good conversations for a while with my best friends. And it just really went down this season, this two week season where I
00:26:38
Speaker
believed so many lies about like the way people perceived Michael and I and the way I don't even know what started it. But like, I just had a few thoughts that just spiraled into this belief that I thought people viewed us a certain way. And once I started speaking to these friends about it, they're like, Caitlin, Caitlin, come back to us. This is so crazy. Like, where did you even get these ideas? And they're just rooted in your own insecurities, but they're not even true. And I think conversations like that, people who are willing to
00:27:08
Speaker
call you out on some of your crap and call you out on, you know, when you're freaking out for no reason. Those are the relationships that I think we need in a season where it's so easy to go down these spirals. And I mentioned to our education group that I think there's kind of different tiers of connection that we need. So one was to find a group of people that can be your like just in case, almost like shooting back up for photographers.
00:27:35
Speaker
And I said that because, you know, it's craziness with everyone's schedules, right? And if someone does get sick, you know, let's just have a huge pod of people, kind of like an emergency pod where you can go to them in your area and say, guys, I'm struggling. You said you would back me up. You know, I need some help. But then having kind of like, you know, Jesus said the 12 have a group where you can regularly connect online. And these are maybe people who share similar seasons of life. I told people,
00:28:01
Speaker
You know, if you've ever shared a part of your life and people have commented on that thread in a Facebook group and say, Oh, I totally get this. Like those are people to connect in this group of like 10 to 12, not in a Facebook group of 10,000, you know, but create a way to connect with these 10 to 12, just to have community and have conversation. But then like, this is such a season to really pay attention to who your person is. I mean, for me, obviously Michael is my best friend, but I have my sister and I have Jill. Jill is a dear friend of mine.
00:28:31
Speaker
I know that those two friends, the reason why I choose them when it comes to accountability and kind of telling me, calling me out on my crap is because I can look at my relationship with them and I can see growth. They don't pull me down. I leave time with them or conversations with them uplifted and encouraged, but also challenged. And I think, you know, if you maybe, if you don't have a relationship like that, gosh, this is a
00:28:59
Speaker
amazing time where you have time to be intentional and form a relationship like that. Sure, you can't go out to coffee with someone, but you can be intentional about forming and deepening a relationship, checking in on that one friend that you'd love to be closer with on a more regular basis. We have more time now than ever to establish that. That's just one example of what if we knew clearly what we wanted and we used this time to go after it. I just
00:29:26
Speaker
see so much potential there. So I don't know if that answered your question. No, absolutely. And it is true. We do have other means of connecting with people that aren't as good as being with somebody in person, right? Right. But we can connect with people via Zoom, right? And so we've connected with you all and Buddy and Jill and Matt and Kat and, you know, via Zoom. We were on Zoom this past week with the Olmsteads, you know, so it is a good opportunity. Or there are tools out there that allow us to continue to connect with people.
00:29:53
Speaker
I do want to transition the conversation to talking a little bit more about business because the reality is we still business owners, right? And so we still have a business to run and there are probably things that need to be done or things that we can be doing. And I want to preface this side of the conversation with sort of a disclaimer. I hear a lot, you know,
00:30:12
Speaker
oh, well, now we all have more time to work on our business. And it's just not the case, right? Like a lot of us are without childcare, previously had childcare. And so now, you know, our day's sort of split in half. So if you're at home feeling like you don't even have the bandwidth to think about business right now in the season, that's totally okay. So hopefully you don't take this conversation as pressure to, oh, well, I really should be working on my business right now. Maybe that means you just, you have to be a sister or a mother or, you know, or a brother, you know,
00:30:41
Speaker
whatever role that's most important in your life right now, definitely give that attention. But as we talk about business a little bit, this is a season I think where we can share a little bit more of our personal lives because we are stuck at home with family. So what's that balance between sharing personal stuff but then also reminding people like, hey, I'm also a business owner. One day my doors will be open again and I'll be able to serve you. So can you speak to that balance a little bit?
00:31:08
Speaker
Yes. We've talked about this a lot in some of our Facebook groups. And I think something that I would just want to encourage everyone with is the idea that, you know, these two worlds don't have to be so separated, you know, that they can be blended. And this is a perfect season to learn how to blend them together. For example, people always want to know, like, when do I post like portfolio work? And then when do I do a personal post? And I'm like, well, you know, there are great patterns you could use, but let's think about this. Why can't you do a post?
00:31:38
Speaker
that is a picture of, you know, you hanging out on your couch with your laptop. You can make it look cute and styled, but you can see a little piece of your kid in the corner and you can talk about how you're growing. You're watching a course you've been meaning to watch for months while your kids, you know, running around, but you're finding a way to still pour into your passion, even in the midst of a pandemic and it's hard and it's not easy and it's far from normal.
00:32:02
Speaker
But you have realized in this season how much you truly love photography, that it's not something you just did to make money. You desperately miss it. And the only way that you feel like you can get a little bit of in your life is to watch these courses. So what does that tell your audience? It tells your audience, one, you love your job. You're still a photographer. Tells your audience, you are a normal everyday person who's stuck at home with their kids just like them. You know, you're relatable.
00:32:28
Speaker
It tells them that you're furthering your education. You're not just sitting, doing nothing, being worried about the world. You're pushing yourself forward. I think so often people think they just have to show one or the other. And I think this is a beautiful season to learn how to put two and two together, you know, share a beautiful image, like a portfolio image and talk about how you'd give anything to connect with a couple like, you know, the couple in this photo and
00:32:54
Speaker
Then you can go into what you love about them, why you love your job, counting down to the days when you can do this again. But just finding ways to intermingle the two worlds, I think is what a lot of photographers lack. And so this, again, just another possibility that maybe this season is going to force people
00:33:14
Speaker
to start realizing that personal marketing and portfolio marketing can go hand in hand. And never before would they have ever been forced to have to learn how to do this. So I just want to encourage people to let them into your life, let the outside world into your life. You can be honest without being a victim to circumstance. You know, no one wants to read like, this sucks, everything sucks, right? But we all feel that to some degree, but you can share struggle, but still have a sense of victory in your words.
00:33:43
Speaker
I think when people start to meld those two things together, that is the sweet spot of social media in my opinion. Yeah, for sure. And I think we tell ourselves the story that, okay, well, the world shut down and maybe I can't behave in ways that I normally would behave right now. And so nobody cares about this anymore. And I don't necessarily think that's true. And, you know, one of the areas that I've seen this is when Facebook ads and Fertility Agency, of course, we're running ads for a bunch of different businesses.
00:34:09
Speaker
And of course, when lockdown started happening, everybody was thinking, okay, should I pull back on running Facebook ads right now? Because who's going to care about my product in this season? And what we found is actually, you know, and it varies a little bit in the season, but for the most part, results have been maintained or have improved in part because probably more people are spending time on Facebook right now. And there's other things too, like obviously restaurants aren't advertising on Facebook right now. So there is a reduction in ad spend in other areas.
00:34:38
Speaker
But my point in all of that is simply we sort of tell ourselves the story of, oh, well, no one's going to care right now. But it turns out that I think a lot of people welcome the distraction, you know, of hearing about what others are doing during this season. So what are some things that photographers and others can be doing in their business right now, you know, obviously, besides actually serving clients?
00:35:01
Speaker
Yes, yeah, I mean, well, I think overall, this is a season that is rising up the true sense of an entrepreneur in everyone. And I don't mean this to be discouraging, but I think it's either pulling out the entrepreneurial spirit to a degree that people didn't even know they had within them, or it
00:35:19
Speaker
is killing it within some people. Some people are panicking and some people are pivoting. And I have a friend, Gina Zaldar, who is out in Minnesota and she just came up with this idea of doing, I don't even know how she's doing it, but she's doing these FaceTime sessions where basically the client sets up a phone in good light with her direction and they do certain things and she's capturing it through their phone. And then she prints this black and white collage. She's 105 sessions within 24 hours.
00:35:49
Speaker
Sure, it's not ideal. These aren't high res, but like she's blowing up. Like people are messaging her and sharing her work. And yes, she doesn't want to do FaceTime photos for the rest of her career, but in this pandemic, she's pivoting and she's making a name for herself. We've got a coffee shop back home that they should be, honestly, they should be done. Like it's a small town brick and mortar two location coffee shop.
00:36:14
Speaker
but instead of saying you know calling it quits like honestly most of their peers in their industry have they decided to do at home decorating like cookie kits charging like 20 bucks for undecorated cookies with icing in a tube and everyone with their kids that need something to do are
00:36:32
Speaker
They sell out instantly. They started selling $50 gallon jugs of their mocha, like latte mixture. Our friend was like, there's no way people are going to pay 50 bucks for this. They've sold out. They are making more per week than they ever made when we were outside this pandemic. Yes. And I know that that's not everyone's reality, but I share those stories because like you just said, we can assume the worst.
00:36:57
Speaker
But what if there's something else that's actually possible? What if, like you said about Facebook ads, what if the playing field, there's more opportunity for your clients because the Facebook ad space is not so congested. We've seen that in our own ads. And so I just want to encourage people when it comes to what should you do in this time? Let's get creative, right? Let's think about the projects that you've always desired to pursue, but have never felt like it was responsible because you didn't have the time to pursue it. If you have that space,
00:37:25
Speaker
pursue the stuff that you've always been passionate about. If you are just trying to take advantage of the courses or the memberships or the educational resources you've invested in but have never completed, every single lesson you watch, you should be putting that on InstaStory, right? You should be talking about what you're learning because it just shows, it's like, we have some people who say, well, Caitlin, I don't think it's very professional to show that I am having to take a course. It's like I don't know what I'm doing. And I'm like, if some corporation,
00:37:55
Speaker
is paying for one of their employees to get their master's degree, paying for higher education. Is that a negative? No, it's not a negative. It's awesome. Show people that you are building on your skill level and just share everything you're doing, whether it's personal. You just want to stay engaged. You don't want to be the person that drops off the face of the planet. You are still a business owner. You are still in business. Just because everything is paused doesn't mean you've lost everything. And maybe some people have. I know that's a very,
00:38:24
Speaker
real reality for a lot of people. But I also know a lot of people jump to that conclusion before it's actually true. So choose to pivot, choose peace instead of panicking and assuming the worst. I think that's my greatest recommendation to business owners. Also, update your website. I can't tell you. We've had more people in our cage education Facebook group showing their printed bridal guides for the first time ever. Like they've owned this expensive template for three years and they're in tears because
00:38:53
Speaker
They finally got it printed. So work on those projects that are going to make you feel this sense of accomplishment. So when the world does open back up, you're opening up stronger than when it shut down.
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah. And across so many different industries you see pivoting. I mean, meeting with doctors online, you know, I mean, there's, and the examples I think are countless and I love what the coffee shop is doing. And I think it would have been easy for them just to say, Hey, well, that's it. And we were dealt a bad card and there's nothing we can do about it. And, or just make up excuses like, okay, well, you know, how are we going to get the word out about these kits and, you know, whatever, but they just know what's crazy. I forgot to tell you this.
00:39:31
Speaker
Because of the momentum, their coffee has been picked up by a wholesale distributor in Richmond. So when they do open back up, they're going to be selling wholesale coffee and they have this whole revenue stream. Isn't that insane? It's insane. It is amazing. It is amazing. And I think one of our friends, I think it was Jen that she shared an image of all the businesses that were started back in the 2008 recession.
00:39:57
Speaker
And there were some big ones, right? And so I think this is definitely a period of time for innovation. And likewise, photographers, similar to what your friend is doing, I've seen other photographers offering to edit family's iPhone photos of the pictures they're taking of their kids during these days and putting them in galleries and things like that. And again, you're probably not going to make as much on that as you would shooting a wedding.
00:40:21
Speaker
But it's a good time to stay… It's the principle. Exactly. And you stay top of mind, you know, and who knows when they need a family session, you can actually go and serve them, then hopefully you're the first person that they think of. But I just want to thank you for your time. I feel like we got to cover a lot here. Really enjoyed the first half of the conversation as well. Always such a life-giving person to chat with. Thank you. Thanks for sharing your time. I know it's limited during the quarantine season.
00:40:47
Speaker
Well, no, it is. It's a joy. And honestly, we will welcome the chance to be in my office by myself while the kids have someone watching them. It's just so peaceful doing this, even with a few interruptions here or there. But no, thanks so much. And I just hope this is a gift to people who are, you know, having a hard time getting themselves, you know, motivated and out of the pit. And let me just say, and I'm sure you can agree with this.
00:41:12
Speaker
It's easy to say these things. It's harder to live them. So I know for myself, I have to constantly remind myself every day that I have a choice. We all have a choice. I have to remind myself so much that I have this on a sticky note in my bathroom or my mirror that like, I have a choice how I show up and no one can take that away from me. I will always have that choice. So that's my encouragement to everyone out there that we, every day we get to show up in this struggle in one of two ways. And I just hope that you'll choose peace over the other options out there. So.
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I really appreciate your time. I think that's the perfect way to wrap up. Where can people follow along if they want to connect? I think the best way to follow along is on Instagram. But if you are a photographer who would love to learn during the season or beyond, we have a free trial to our KGL Access membership that basically allows photographers to watch me photograph an entire wedding. I do voiceovers, I explain my techniques, why I'm doing certain things.
00:42:07
Speaker
It's kind of a revolutionary way to learn how to be a wedding photographer. And so you can actually try it for a month for free. And we have thousands of people that do it. So if you've never really dove into education, maybe this is a great way to start. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'll post all the links to that in the show notes. And thank you again for joining us. Thanks so much.
00:42:29
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to dvandchrista.com.