Transcript
Speaker: Ready to start with with the first point? Let's do it up. All right. Zhu Sanli, first he goes over location, located three three soon below the eye of the knee. And between, is eye of the knee based off of the point? Is that a point name there or no? the point name is based off of the anatomical shape.
Speaker: Got it, got it. So, stomach something something? 35. Oh, I should have been able to figure that out. um Stomach 35 is called doobie because it's a calf's nose, right?
Speaker: Sure. Because they say that the patellar tendon looks like the nose of a calf and that the right nostril is the stomach channel and the left nostril is an extra point.
Speaker: Yeah. she on Shi-nei-yen. Shi-nei. Okay. Yeah. Nei means inside. So there's the y-yen, the outside eyeball or outside eye and ne-yen, the inside eye, because you can call them a nostril, you can call them an eye, but it's those two hollow divots in the knees there.
Speaker: So yes. And this is also why, like, I know a lot of people have different ways of finding Zusan-ni, but Man, I mean, it's just written over and over again, do three to one down. Like, why would you try and find it any other way? and but I don't, that's how I use it all the time in clinic.
Speaker: Yeah, well, it's funny. At the end, that he makes a comment about the location, which I thought was interesting too. So he says, up below the of the knee and between the tendons, can get to the heart of abdominal issues and is good for the treatment of cold sensation in the stomach.
Speaker: Intestinal noises, this Chen Ming. Yes. Very good. Chong Ming. Chong Ming. Okay. You're good. And diarrhea, swollen leg, soreness in the knees, emancipation, emaciation. Sorry. I knew I said that wrong. Weakness from cold air. You've got a proclamation coming. no I know. was like, oh, that's not the right word.
Speaker: And paris ah parasitic infestation, Gucci of all sorts. After the age of 30, person's vision can be extended by applying acupuncture and moxibustion. This point must be located carefully.
Speaker: Robust health can be brought. That's the English translation? This is a Tom's? This is Tom's, yeah. Okay. let's ah um that's right Well, right. We'll just do a little... Was it problematic?
Speaker: but good very Well, let's just shift a few things, but it's good. Okay. Okay. I was a wonderful person, by the way. Also really just, he's, if any of you guys know Tom Busio, he's incredible at both acupuncture, martial, uh, like medicine, but also in martial arts.
Speaker: so that's pretty hard to get, get high level at both. Oh yeah. Yeah. So great practitioner, but, um, let's just tweak this cause he doesn't speak Chinese. Um, so in fact, that's why I was his translator on a couple of his visits to go see some, um,
Speaker: some great martial arts teachers. Oh, sweet. ah So let's go ah do this first one. So the first one, it says where the location is. It's interesting that at the it does say three-tun between the two tendons or between the two sinews. Remember the word jin means sinew, ligament, tendon.
Speaker: It just doesn't mean muscle, but it means all of those three things, which is a fascinating idea between the two sinews. Like, if you think about it, we're like usually right in the interior tibialis muscle.
Speaker: So what is he really talking about between the two sinews? Is he talking about them the muscles have their own bands and groups? And so you're in between, like i could the gastroc is probably the easiest one for a cell grab where you have that belly in the middle.
Speaker: So is it in between those two kind of muscle groupings? I think that's a reasonable one because if you think about it, it does translate translate best as ligaments and tendons. But I think um the sheathing around a muscle right? So like a myofascial tissue, yep, is arguably more gin than anything else.
Speaker: right And so if you feel both sides of the anterior tibialis, meaning the medial and lateral sides, it's a big long tube muscle, but you can feel both sides, which kind of like feeling a big giant vessel, like you would help it a pulse or something.
Speaker: Well, the two sides feel like thin and fascia-like, and the squishy belly in the middle is exactly where we want to go. So I think this is just, and we all, I think, generally go right into the anterior tibialis, but that's where like it's worth paying attention to all these little details of like, oh yeah, what does it even mean between two tendons? Because if you just blaze past that, maybe maybe there's some gem in there that would change where we would needle it.
Speaker: Right. But it also helps us understand, I think some people are too close to the tibia and some people are too far away from it so just yeah i've seen people needle this point like i don't know uh half dollar size kind of thing going on it's people kind of pick a lot of different places which is why i thought the mention of this point must be located carefully um at the end of this song was pretty interesting i don't know if that's the correct translation but that was just interesting because ah maybe even back then people were finding this point every every which way
Speaker: Yeah, that's true. that sure That part translates pretty good. he's yeah like Yeah, you should find it accurately. That's a reasonable translation of that. Yeah. um It's interesting that he doesn't put the... that he Does it not include depth?
Speaker: No, not on this one. I i saw that um when you sent me over the stuff in Chinese that there was more depth stuff. yeah So how deep should we be needling? Stomach 36. So most of these, and it's it's not all, it's not all 12, but most of them he'll give you um a depth and a number of moxibustion um cones. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, so I guess a cone is the right translation for that. I never think, like, I guess it's like a pile, a cone. Yeah, yeah. yeah That's the same idea, yeah. So cones, it's just, what's that? it different if it's ah rice grain versus if it's, like, the bigger cone?
Speaker: Are there different, like, words that we would know? Correct, which is why, like, so I guess cone maybe is the right translation then because it's not rice grain. Like, this wouldn't mean three grains.
Speaker: It would mean up three grains. sizable piles which i guess translates to a cone better yeah okay so three cones on 36 uh-huh that makes sense yep so it's it's three cones and it's eight fun a fun is a tenth of a twin so this is 0.8 twin right that's easier for my brain to work around yeah And here's a really big one though.
Speaker: Let's not forget historical context. This guy was born in 1100 something something, right? 1122 or something. Don't forget, they don't make metal needles back then.
Speaker: yeah So most of the needles were still stone. And so if you're using a stone needle, it feels a whole lot different at eight fun than tiny little facial acupuncture point needle, right?
Speaker: So the reason I say this is I think some people gravitate to this because they're like, hey, we can finally do kind of like, like I know a japanese a lot of Japanese acupuncturists says use tiny needles and go very shallow. Yeah. Go shallow with a nail, brother. Yeah, exactly. if you're sticking a nail in my body, maybe only go to 0.8 foot. That sounds about enough, right? Yeah. yeah um So I just, and you know, these were like fairly thin in stones, but like they're shards of stones, ah the bien stone.
Speaker: But I just want to make sure people are like, oh, maybe I've been over needling this point. What tool are you using? So keep that in mind. And yes, depth is important, but also width is extremely important. Dr. Guo, his thinnest needle was 0.4.
Speaker: Which is nuts. I don't think I've ever used a a thick needle as 0.4. Yeah, that's his thin normal needle is 0.4. So just like that feels that's twice as thick as most acupuncturist needles here, literally twice as the diameter.
Speaker: And his big needles were 8.8.
Speaker: Wow. And so they were like little rods of steel. I mean, they are rods of steel, I guess, but you know what I mean They feel like rods because yeah they're no longer super flexible. yeah not fact they do He would use them as like, like to like literally like wedge stuff out of places in the body.
Speaker: Wow. Yeah. it was It's interesting where you- Tissue surgery. It's kind of like soft tissue surgery. Yeah. And um so, yeah. And he'd also use them for some other stuff. He'd use them on siphon on the fingers. Oh, that would sting. Yeah. Spicy.
Speaker: Yeah. But it works. ah And then you said the early needles were made out of Correct. Yeah. correct Did they not use bone? I always figured bone would be pretty easy to carve.
Speaker: Yeah, you're right. They could. But I think the original ones were all tended to be like bient in stone where they would hit it and then flake off like either sheets or shards.
Speaker: And then they would get the right shapes, shards, or or take the sheets and try and try and break those into pieces as well. That's crazy. And imagine if you accidentally broke off a piece in your patient's body.
Speaker: Yeah. There's probably got to be tricks for that. um like how to not make Reiki needles or something. I don't exactly. Thank goodness we don't have to use those anymore. And it's not like, you know I don't remember, i we should talk to a metallurgy historian, I guess. I don't remember what a time they started developing metal. So they may have even had metal by 1122 thin enough to use as a needle. i mean, they certainly had like swords and stuff.
Speaker: Sure. But even then, like even if they were using metal, they're not even close to as thin as ours are. So just to remind people that like, again, if you take a point for a needle and you go eight, eight fun into a point that feels absolutely different.
Speaker: Absolutely different. and We can even talk about Dr. was needling method where he like slowly brings it in from the outside. It's you, you were, did you do one of those workshops with me? I did. Yeah. It feels different, right? Yeah. Well, one, I mean, you guys is,
Speaker: the A huge difference when we had freehand technique in school, it was usually quick stab. Yeah. um Just like pop, get get it over and done with. And your thing was like, no, you kind of...
Speaker: wait for the tissue to open up to you. And then you don't even feel it going in, which was crazy. So that one's, that's nice and fun. So you you can freehand without it being a stabby mess.
Speaker: Um, and then when you get the chi, it's, it's pretty strong, which I like, but, but not all people like. That's true. Not everybody does like that. And you get different levels chi, which I think is one of the coolest things. does You literally feel the difference between the way level and the chi level.
Speaker: Um, And I don't needle like that a lot because that you're right. I don't think a lot of Americans like that sensation and so forth. um But I sometimes do. And it's great to have this tool. yeah And maybe I'll get more cantankerous as I get old and just needle everybody like that. i don't know.
Speaker: Yeah, there's th there's for sure that scale that I'm trying to figure out too, where it's like, I want you to come back, but I also want you to see results. So we' we'll play with those two things and...
Speaker: i just recently i I had a patient who's super sensitive. So I needled them accordingly, but then they weren't getting effects. So then I was like, okay, well, I'm going to, we talked about it and we're like, well we're going to kick it up a notch.
Speaker: And then he was like, that was way too intense, but he's way better. So at least he now knows kind of like his, like his options, you know, it's like we can go slow and maybe not get it And, or we can kind of grid it out a little bit more.
Speaker: I love that. I love that. And then, yeah, and nobody has to super hear it all the time. Like exactly like you're saying, but at least they have that spectrum in their brain. Right. We're like, this can work like, and I can get better and getting that into people's brains sometimes is, is super hard. Cause they don't, they everyone told them they weren't going to get better and this was going to be the rest our life kind of thing. So.
Speaker: Okay. Yeah. All right, back to the Chinese. Yeah, yeah. I mean, in general, it seems like it's pretty abdominal stuff. Things that we've we've known about stomach 36 is that it's doing digestive abdominal.
Speaker: Yeah, which this is also a big misnomer, right? So when people say this is stomach or leg three mile, yeah, leg three mile, yeah that's a misnomer.
Speaker: um just so everybody knows that li at the end does not refer to miles. It's been mistranslated that way a lot a lot, but what it refers to is the three different compartments of the digestion. So the upper, middle, and lower thirds of the digestive tract, which are really your middle and lower burners. So you can call them wan, or you can call them li.
Speaker: And this comes, you can even call them shu. And this all comes from um the stomach channels, great law of the stomach. Its name is called li, and hence you can call it shu li or. one The one is just the standardized way of doing it. So you can call them.
Speaker: true So if you any of you know the name for the lower husy point of the large intestine, shunghu shu shang means greater or above in this case, like literally higher up. ch means great, and shu does not mean deficient. So please do not use that to make your patients more deficient. You can't use it that way, so don't worry about it.
Speaker: But it doesn't mean that. What it means is the upper giant or great digestive point. So 虞 means that as well. So anyway, 离 here means the three compartments, not three miles. That's a mistranslation. But if we go to the third line, the first two are just telling you where it is. So the third line of the poem here, it says 能同心付账. Actually, I think I'm going to stop.
Speaker: saying that. There might be a few people who speak Chinese, but the rest of us are probably just going to get annoyed if I keep doing this. So I'm just going to translate it as much as I can, unless I forget my own rule. So what that means is, this is a really important difference from the translation that you just said. It means, means interconnect the heart.
Speaker: That is a huge difference from whatever you just said. From get to the heart of abdominal distension. Yeah, I was wondering about the use of that. Get to that. That's so funny. kind of funny That's another intro. When I read that, I was like, that's an idiom.
Speaker: I wrote down, I was like, that's an English idiom. So what is it actually? it literally means real heart, but it means interconnect the heart. Just like tongli, which we'll talk about later, means interconnect the interior. Tong here means interconnect. And the best way to understand this word, it's it's a little bit versatile. It's used in a lot of different things.
Speaker: But what it means is proper flow. It means flow. So like this is, ah i I mean, everybody has like emotional memory of different words and stuff. But one time i was talking to Dr. Guo about the small circle of heaven.
Speaker: And he turns to me and he says literally two words in Chinese. He said, well, three, because there's question mark at the end. He says, be to lama which means, have you opened Question mark.
Speaker: And what he means is have you opened up your your small small circle of heaven? And of course, my answer is, hell no. what kind of What kind of person are you talking to here? You're talking to the generic student here. You're not talking to, but I was like, well, thank you for the the confidence, but no, I have not opened up my microcosmic orbit to that level yet.
Speaker: And he didn't actually even say what level. What he just said is, is it open, right? Like, have you opened it? Is it flowing? That's the way way we should think about this word, 通, interconnect, open up, help it flow properly.
Speaker: And what the heck does it mean then to say 通心付障? fu zhang What the hell is 通心? hong shi What does it mean to interconnect a heart and why would we use triple burner or why would we use the 双三里 for it?
Speaker: Well, there's always that connection of of the stomach and the heart with them being both so closely related. Or in like physical placement where you're, if you have heartburn, it's not your heart that's burning, it's your stomach, but you feel it in your heart.
Speaker: So point, such a good point for any of you wanting to understand what Asher just said there, look at banxia xie xin tang. You're not draining your heart there. You're draining underneath your heart. But what you're really doing is draining your, usually your epic asterisk area. It can be in your chest, but it's usually that. So yeah. Can you feel the difference between heart pain and and stomach pain? Most people can't.
Speaker: that's number one, sweet. Any other connection that you could think of for opening up or interconnecting a heart? in relation to Zusan Lee's function? um Maybe the descending of fire down through the yeah middle.
Speaker: Oh my gosh. This is why we do this, right? This is why we do it. And you're like, well, what the heck does Zusan Lee or the the three compartments of the digestion have to do with heart?
Speaker: You can't have a heart kidney connection work unless it's rotating around the hub. of your digestion so earth is the digestion it's the pivot point for the heart kidney cycle so is this like if we're gonna go to herbal and this would be like jersher in function jersher and juro oh that's such a good point more the jersher Yeah.
Speaker: But i yeah yeah, not totally lost on the Juru component. Just Juru can get even a little higher than the epigastric itself. Yeah. ah So yes, let's say one third part of the Juru and all the rest of the Jursher.
Speaker: Totally. So solid. Sweet. So, yeah, I think if you're ever reading a translation and you read something that sounds like it works in English, like it sounds like it's written in English, like heart of an issue, that should be a flag where you should think,
Speaker: oh, that is something that only makes sense in English. Did they a translate the meaning, right? So that he was, you know, he might've been saying, oh, this is the heart of this issue, but we said it in our Chinese way idiom. And so I'm just giving you to you in your English way, or is it a bad translation in this case? yeah um not Not a great translation.
Speaker: and it's hard. I'm just going to say that too. Even if you speak Chinese, which ah um you know a lot of practitioners here don't, even if you speak Chinese, ancient Chinese is still hard.
Speaker: But if you're going to err on one side, err on the staccato word by word meaning, don't link them together into like what sounds like smooth, modern language.
Speaker: link and It's better to be like opens up. Heart, not gets to the heart of something, right? Right. Sweet. All right. So that's 通心腐脂肪.
Speaker: 腐脂肪 meaning like that abdominal fullness. Then the next line, it goes on to say it also treats cold in the stomach. Is that what yours said? Yep. <unk> Now here, we don't necessarily mean cold in the stomach all the time, but we often mean, for those of you who know Huo Xiang Zheng Qi San is the formula, whether not you're an herbalist or not, you should know that formula even if you're not herbalist because it's so darn useful.
Speaker: Well, we know it's so good for most food poisoning. And so when we say cold in the stomach here, that's oftentimes um including many other things, but a big focus on things like food poisoning. Well, check out how many patients you have that have just gotten over a GI cold or um a rhinovirus-y thing or something else where their digestion really went wacky and look at how effective Zusanli is in um helping to rebuild their gut from that.
Speaker: So cold here is often thought of as like a greater word, kind of like the like a larger meaning of it would mean damage. doesn't have to be damaged by cold. It's just damage, right?
Speaker: And so it's like rehabbing it. And for any of you, well, like we're we're only talking to TCM nerds, I think. So for you all TCM nerds, think about how effective Stomach 36 Shousanli is with whatever it's, I'm sorry, Zousanli with Shousanli, which is large intestine. 10. Thank you.
Speaker: Um, it's not a coincidence that they're both named the same thing and one and the large intestine one treats more external stuff. So you stick those two together and with four, right? A bilateral. So you're doing four needles.
Speaker: I think you can rehab a whole lot of guts with just four needles. Nice. And also, too, I was thinking that um in in the time that this was written, probably cold stomach was ah more common of a thing just because of the constitution and food environment that that everyone was living in.
Speaker: Heck, yeah. Heck, yeah. I mean, if you run out of like you don't have a flint or something. Well, you're eating cold shit tonight. Right. And how much water is that for your stomach to digest? Yeah. And if so, like it literally might be temperature. Also, you know, meat and stuff was so rare and valuable back then.
Speaker: and mean, if you had an old ass squirrel in your bag, probably still going to try and eat that thing, you know? Right. So. And give yourself food poisoning in the process. Probably. Or maybe you're just used to it, you know, there's got to be a bit of that.
Speaker: what did that What was the next line for Changming? Intestinal noises. Nice. And then what? Diarrhea, swollen leg, soreness in knees. Great. Let's do intestinal noises and diarrhea. That's pretty spot on. As long as people recognize that the depth of what intestinal noises means. So Asher is exactly right. This is called Changming or like intestinal chirping in Chinese, i like a bird chirps. um And it primarily means wind in the intestine.
Speaker: It could literally mean gas, like you know flatulence gas, but it can also just mean lots of other kinds of wind in the intestine, which you can see for tons of different things, but lots of chronic-y gut stuff, right? IBS-y stuff and whatever else. So those are true. The diarrhea, that's a direct translation. That's correct. And then leg swelling and knee or hung, that's a really weird character, by the way, if anyone's following along in the characters. ah yeah Maybe we'll put a link just in case anyone wants the...
Speaker: um The Chinese. The Chinese, so you can follow along with this. But the translation is exactly right. There it is. It's leg, swelling, knee, and calf soreness, um which is at a certain point, you're kind of thinking like, okay, leg swelling, that kind of makes sense, circulating fluids, the knee and calf soreness here. Remember, most soreness comes from stuck fluids.
Speaker: ah We don't think of it as I think Western medicine given up on the idea of, or if I don't even know if it truly was a Western medicine idea for It's just like a gym talk. But a lot of people are like, oh oh, soreness is just lactic acid in your muscles.
Speaker: yeah I don't know about that. i mean, may may not I don't know. I think it's fluids getting stuck. Oh, sure. Okay. Right. And so if you get rid of the stuck fluids, and so that's the whole idea here. So lactic acid might be part of the stuck fluids. just I also think probably there's micro tears in the muscles when people are working out really hard and stuff.
Speaker: Anyway, so those ones, what did you say for the next one after the new one? Emaciation, um weakness. Got it. Let's start. Oh yeah. Weakness from what?
Speaker: cold damage, and then we have the parasitic infection. Nice. Okay. so that line's pretty spot on too. So here again, it talks about Shang Han, damaged by cold. For those of you who know the work with a book called Shang Han Lun, it's the same ones. And then Ying Shu Sun. So when cold, damaged, but again, remember here, just like in Shang Han Lun, it's referring to more than cold itself. It's referring to external pathogen damage.
Speaker: And that absolutely includes, say, food poisoning or anything else, leading to weakness and literally thinness. So loss of weight. So emaciation is also correct and injury. So all that's correct. Injury here, meaning digestive injury.
Speaker: Nice. And then we just have after 30, a person's vision can be extended by applying acupuncture and moxibustion. That's kind of correct. Oh, there was that one extra line too about the gu. Oh yeah. So it says in Chinese, it's like talks about qi gu, which is different than gu qi.
Speaker: um Yeah. whoop Yeah. So here, qi meaning is stagnation or a kind of something, gu. So usually when you put the um noun and first in front of something, you're describing the kind of thing.
Speaker: When you put the noun after, it means a thing. So if you said qi gu, we would usually say che type of gu syndrome. But if you said gu qi, it would just be gu, right?
Speaker: or however people say I think they just say gu. Anyway, so like when someone's like, oh, I've got gu, which sometimes is translated as parasitic stuff, it doesn't have to be an actual parasite, though.
Speaker: um It just has to basically be a long-term chronic digestive issue. So it's definitely in the tract, but it doesn't necessarily have to be like an amoeba or something in there, though it can be. That's fine.
Speaker: But if you're talking about qi gu, You're talking about a kind of long-term chronic digestive blockage-y kind of obstruction-y thing, but also causing all that pain as well, caused by qi more than anything else. So that's helpful, right? Like you can have wind-cold B syndrome, right? You can have damp B. That's where you put the word in front of the B. Instead, if if you said B qi, then that would just be B syndrome because qi then just becomes like a noun for stuff.
Speaker: There's a lot of words for that in Chinese. Head kind of actually means that too. A lot of times you'll see um the word tau means just like stuff. Zi is also another one. It's like just stuff.
Speaker: um So anyway, that's so that's a kind of a different one here. So if you're trying to treat gu, which can again mean that that chronic parasitic stuff. Remember when it comes to parasites, I would say the biggest thing is for us to understand you're looking for abdominal pain and diarrhea.
Speaker: If you can't get those two, it's pretty darn hard to call it a gu. And I know there's this is a generic way of looking at a lot of them, but that's primarily it. So when we're looking at abdominal pain, on and off pain with long-term chronic diarrhea, this is usually leading you towards a lot of good gu, parasitic-y stuff, and so forth. And if you guys are familiar with wu mei wan and some other ones, that's partly why they're so darn useful.
Speaker: o Okay. Okay. Yep. And then when he goes on to the at 30 and afterwards, he says, good. Yep. Good for the eyes stuff. That's pretty good translation. So like, this would be like, it improves your health and it brightens your eyes, meaning it helps your, like literally does help your vision too.
Speaker: Um, so that's reasonable. Yeah, this is and a lot of this seemed like um we have the digestive stuff and then we have the you know we use this for nourishing qi and blood kind of overall tonification type thing.
Speaker: Yeah. So not that different from from how we use it today. so it kind of just fits up pretty nicely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'd say it's pretty close. One thing I'd recommend people think though, before rather than always think of Zuzan-li as a tonifying point, which I think is a pretty standard one,
Speaker: is think of it first as ah flow point because it is a hussy point. And so think of it basically as a stomach channel descending point before you think of it as a tonifying point.
Speaker: Now it sure does help when your stomach descends, you can get stronger and you can adjust more and all that stuff. Right. Try to get stronger without the stomach descending. Yeah, exactly. And you're not getting it anywhere.
Speaker: Try to do anything without your stomach descending. Try to make a podcast without your stomach descending. um But here's a good example of it. like There is literally no better point.
Speaker: If you said you get only get one point, it doesn't mean it does work for 100% of people. But if you told me I only get one point to treat a frontal yangming headache for the rest of my life, it has to be Zhu Sanli. It's the best.
Speaker: Now, yes, sometimes it's Neiting, the yin spring point that is actually more potent for heat-based ones. But if you can't pick, you know, if you're not doing your diagnosis and all that if you just tell me frontal yangming headache, I will literally always go to Yang Zuzan Li first until I further differentiate my diagnosis, which tells people, why would you tonify a frontal headache?
Speaker: Because it's not a tonification point first. It's a clearing point first. And when i say clearing, just think rectify the correct flow of that organ and channel. um So I just throw a little soapbox on there.
Speaker: Totally. Well, we love your soapboxes, bro. That's why we're why we're here. And speaking of, because you brought up our next point, Natine, stomach 44. Nice.
Speaker: And this one was really interesting for me when I read it. Because one, there's a couple of diagnoses in here that we're going to have to go over because we never went over them in school. And the other thing is that it seems like it's pretty opposite of our... of Or most of our modern day use, or at least what I've seen in clinic. So, starts off with location. Nei Ting is on the outside of the second toe and belongs to Foot Yong Ming.
Speaker: It can cure a cold sensation in the forelimbs, a preference for quietness and dislike of noise. Now, we never diagnosed a preference for quietness and dislike of noise.
Speaker: In school, i thought you were just being like... bitchy. But apparently it's a diagnosis. Is this just um someone who's deficient and they're just like, I don't want to be outside with the world because it's too much for me?
Speaker: Well, I mean, even back in ancient China, they had emo kids.
Speaker: You know, and the other thing that really makes me think of too is that um alcoholics, when they when they come off and they start sobering up, everything's really loud for them. Every interaction is is like at 2,000% and it's way too much for them. Yeah.
Speaker: um So i was kind of like, that's a preference for quietness and just like noise. and And that fits perfectly. So perfectly with like the kind that we're talking about here. Okay. Okay.
Speaker: And then it says treat skin rashes. That makes sense. Heat and yawning. Okay. Sore throat, heat. And yeah, I'm down with it. Yep. Frequent yawning, which is weird. And then it says as well as toothache. So don't know why they're paired together. um But that was interesting. out of Frequent yawning. I didn't know, again, that that was ah an issue.
Speaker: Was just tired. Close. Maybe. talk that's day Yeah. I feel like most school, I feel like in school would have been like liver cheese stagnation all the way. And then inability to eat, poor appetite in parentheses that he has. So inability, poor appetite from deficiency.
Speaker: So just flat out says it's from, you know, we're deficiency. And so I assume we're tonifying. And then ends it with a needle here awakens. And I got to ask you about the awakens verb.
Speaker: Yeah. That is pointing to. Those last two have, yeah, specifically specifically the one before the last one has is missing a really big point. But yeah, we'll talk about that.
Speaker: Sweet. Let's get to it. So first points, really nice. Talking about where it's at. um little Little difference. I like to think of the word instead of foot yangming. I call it lower leg yangming. But basically, if you look at ancient China,
Speaker: show It doesn't stop at your wrist. It's like from your elbow down. It doesn't stop at your ankle. It's from your knee down. And the only reason I like to think about this is just because it's the lower leg channel, my upper limb channel. So I would really think of it as a lower limb or upper limb channel. I know that's a very slight difference for acupuncturists, but I do think it eventually changes how we think about it a little bit. So just a wee little tweak there. Then we go on and it says it can treat...
Speaker: um Yeah, 四肢 绝, which almost always means the four limbs are lacking warmth. So, frigidity in the cold or or just extra cold in the hands and feet.
Speaker: But the interesting thing here about 绝 is even though we often use the word 绝 绝, which means um like cold, like yeah frigid or cold what we really mean is counter flow and this is so so key for what we're really looking for is when it can't flow out there and the reason i bring this up is for those of you who guys who know the formula sinisan we know it's great for cold hands and feet and weirdly it's good for excessively hot hands and feet
Speaker: Because if they can't flow back, heat gets trapped. If they can't flow out, heat doesn't get there. And what I like to tell people then is we're not really treating frigidity. What we're treating is lack of flow.
Speaker: so that Circulation. Circulation. Yeah. Not that hard in a way. The trick is we're not talking about really the circulation of blood as much as we are the circulation of yang. And so we're not talking about your vessels captained by your heart.
Speaker: We're talking about your qi ji captained by your gallbladder and your liver. So exactly. And so, but it gets to a great point. Why the heck are we using a yin spring point for a stomach channel to treat what looks like it should be a liver gallbladder issue?
Speaker: Is there anything that you could connect with? Now, I don't think we ever have to... So this is betraying or... Not betraying, because ah you know I'll proudly say that I'm yeah ah of Dr. Guo's lineage first and foremost when it comes to acupuncture. And as I said, he's Shu transport points as his first and foremost foundation. So very key. Well, according to the Shu transport points, Natin just clears heat.
Speaker: doesn't do a whole lot more. It just clears the heck out of heat. You could arguably say it clears the best kind of heat it clears, or really maybe the only kind of heat is internally produced heat.
Speaker: Because if you go back to the Nanjing, it says, 煮身熱, body heat. right And so normally people are well, the body just there means it's heat inside your body.
Speaker: Or does it? Because in the ancient Chinese, they don't waste characters. Remember how hard it is to carve these things or even even use, you know, grind up pine sap and do calligraphy on to pine onto ah bamboo slats. My point here is, you know, it's not easy to to to write shit in ancient China.
Speaker: So you don't waste characters. So if they just said it clears heat, that's what they would have said. So shen body heat, I think really means heat internally produced. And if you look at the two best ying spring points, what would you say are the two best and most useful ying spring points?
Speaker: Liver 2 gets used all the time. Hell yeah. And then...
Speaker: Probably this one. Actually, I do the hands a lot. I do both lal Gong and and the heart one. Oh, your patients must love you. Yeah. Not not on the first first day, but if they have for headaches, for temporal headaches sometimes, that's just the point that just gets it done to the the best. so I think this tells us a lot about what a second date with Asher looks like. Yeah.
Speaker: You know, for this part it's funny. Well, it's funny. i have a i only have one dating advice, which is don't try. Because if you try, you're just going to have to try for the rest of your life. classic you sound like billy crystal don't take him to the airport now because you're not going to take him to the airport later well yeah unless you are right yeah um you know if you are are always for my patients i'll ah i have way more accommodating than for past and current dating partners it's more like um yeah you get what what you're gonna get
Speaker: I dig it. I dig it. Authentic to the bone. So the liver point and then maybe actually Natiang would probably be. i totally agree. And if you think about it, what are the two most commonly common organs to generate internal heat?
Speaker: Oh yeah. Liver stomach for sure. And hence like, yeah. then the heart. Yeah. That's a really great point. Yes. um But if you, mean, still, if you just like statted them out, stomach fire patients, liver fire patients and heart fire, I still think for the first two, right? And heart fire is dope. I totally agree with you. But in this case, I tend to use other methods to deal with that, which we'll talk about actually when we get to Tongli.
Speaker: Yeah, totally. and So when they're saying, okay, so we kind of went over, you know, the liver and gallbladder are in charge of the Chi-Gi. And then that's what's causing cold sensation in limbs.
Speaker: And now we're maybe doing counterflow and hearing, clearing heat from the stomach. Right. What's the connection between the two? Yeah. So if you think about sinisan, everybody, for those of you who don't know herbs, don't worry. We're going to explain it as we go. So it's a four-herb formula that helps promote qi ji or qi flow, yang qi flow to the hands and feet.
Speaker: So if you look at it, you know that the chai hu gets it out there, really via the gallbladder, and that the bai shau brings it back, and that's via the liver. But what are the other two points? Zher shu. Yes. And then gansao. Yes, zher gansao.
Speaker: What is zher gansao so good for? Making more fluid. Ah, could not have said it better. Stomach yin fluid. Well, what happens if you have too much stomach fire? Not enough fluid. Burn up your stomach yin and nothing else flows.
Speaker: So what kind of cold limbs is this for? Stomach fire burning up stomach yin. So what let's let's make it even more applicable, right? Let's let's take it out of the theory world.
Speaker: Don't use this point for four ct like ah cold hands and feet unless you see a dry tongue coat. So dry tongue coat, cold hands and feet, boom. And this gets to a really fundamental concept, which is, can you use heat clearing herbs, acupuncture points, whatever, in a tonifying way?
Speaker: Can you use the clearers to tonify? And we would say yes. Yeah, absolutely. yeah Get rid of all the junk. I usually tell people it's like... um if you If you clear the accident off of the highway, yeah traffic moves better. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: And then the city thrives. So it looks like you just made your city stronger, but you really just made your city flow better. And the city will naturally get stronger. So the same idea here is, can we use heat-clearing herbs to tonify something? And herbs would very directly say, absolutely, yes. If you go back to your five flavors, know this is written in the books or not, but whatever. If you go back to your five flavors, hopefully your book says, bitter flavor can do these things. So we all know, 苦能臭, bitter can clear downward or drain downward.
Speaker: um Then says protect the yin or something like that. Oh, kuonng ti It can preserve the yin. How in the world are we preserving yin? Because we're clearing the fire fast enough so it doesn't burn it up.
Speaker: A really, really key important point here, which is if someone's fluid deficient, can you tonify their fluids? Sure. But you're going to kind of have to do it forever if there's chronic stomach fire there.
Speaker: Or you clear the fire so they don't burn up their own yin. Totally. And then, okay, so then we have the emo patient from 1000 BC, China.
Speaker: Right. Which then gets us to the question, like who who doesn't like, who gets pissed around sound and doesn't want to talk or or hear stuff?
Speaker: Old people? Old people, yeah, for sure. Yeah. it's it's all It's how I know I'm getting older is what I'm like. I just don't want to hear it, man.
Speaker: Don't want to be in public anymore. I can't i can't stand it. um You brought up a great point. Alcoholics, right? How come they don't like it? Because they have a fire going on in their head. Heat. Yeah. So people with like stomach fire, which we just mentioned, stomach fire often leads to heart fire. So heart and stomach fire people really don't like this. Also, heart and stomach fire get really like,
Speaker: yeah A good example would be like they toss and turn a bunch at night and you make any noise at nighttime, then they won't be able to sleep and they'll get pissed and yell at you and stuff. So same idea here too. is This is inflammatory um irritability. So this is like heat irritability. We talked about, we'll talk about, you we always talked about that in classes. Every time when people say like irritable, I think in the West, they're taught to go only to liver. And the key is there's two major kinds of irritability. There's probably even more than two specifically, but if you do two,
Speaker: you get almost all of them. was going to say dry. Basically, heat. So we use the word xinfan, heart irritability, to very clearly differentiate from liver irritability due to heat. And then, of course, like you said, dryness. So it's the heat burning up the fluid. So you're absolutely right. It is dry, but it's the heat burning up that fluid, just like were talking about in the stomach.
Speaker: Right, right. ah Skin rashes, that one seemed pretty, yep you know, young Ming, we're dealing with skin stuff. Heck yeah. Sore throat.
Speaker: Pretty straightforward, I thought too. For sure. But then the frequent yawning. Yeah. This is a tricky one. I actually would probably go live around this one. And this gets to the whole idea that a lot of stomach fires just due to liver stagnation.
Speaker: Got it. And that's why Shao Chao Rutan works for so many people because it moves the liver while descending the stomach. so And this is really getting to a fundamental point of why is this person have stomach fire in the first place?
Speaker: well Because of liver cheese stagnation is what it's saying. That's right. That's right. And you can have pure stomach fire for sure. um But this is including that liver component in there because they're like, yeah, and we get that too.
Speaker: That's also a common cause of it. Which I think, and this is the point where, take a like a little break and go back to what we talked about in the beginning of the podcast, which is one, indications aren't are all that great.
Speaker: um because if you don't know all these things and you just read it and you're like, oh, yeah, I want to use this point because they're yawning or because, you know, they they have cold hands and feet. Like it really doesn't get you there. And even reading it in the original Chinese isn't going to get you there unless you have someone to like help walk you through it or like you have the critical thinking skills already, in which case you probably didn't need to read it.
Speaker: Right. Or it's like a reminder or something. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, you're so right, right? Like you treat on, if you treat based on diseases, it sucks. If you treat based on indications, it can help.
Speaker: If you treat based on like a full systemic approach, diagnosis, basically syndrome or junk, right? You might crush it because there are so many ways that you could treat it then.
Speaker: And it's all correct. So meaning like, okay, this person's got stomach fire. Well, not only did we say this person's got stomach fire leading to say irritability and dislike of sound and stuff like that, but we're also saying, why do they have that? Maybe it is just or get like maybe it's just straight up in their stomach.
Speaker: Did they drink too much alcohol? If you drink too much alcohol, you will have stomach fire. You will. um I saw this new patient for the first time, maybe two, three weeks ago. I can't remember time very well. And he came in for the first time, right? And he was like, okay. So um I asked him what he wanted to work on. He's like, well, I'm pretty low energy.
Speaker: And he was... in his 40s, like early 40s. And I was like, okay, that's, you know, it's a good time to work on that stuff. And i was like, and he's like, yeah, and I know I should lose some weight. And I know I shouldn't drink so much. And I was like, okay, well, what are we looking at? And he's like, well, I should probably lose like 30 pounds.
Speaker: But I don't like to exercise really. I just like, you know, I'll do stuff like I'll walk my dog and go skiing and stuff. But you know, that's about it. like I won't go exercise for exercise sake. it's okay. And we can work around some things. And then i was like, well how many drinks are we thinking? Like, are we talking about in a week? Just so I can get a gauge.
Speaker: he's like, well, and he's actually pretty straightforward. Cause sometimes you have to read into it. If they say one, they mean five, but i think this guy's a pretty straight, straight shooter. And he's like, why about 30 a week? I was like, whoa, 30 a week.
Speaker: That's five a night. Five have a night. That's a four. If you're counting all seven days, five, if you take some days off. Yeah. People take Sundays off. I don't know. Take Tuesdays off. Oh yeah. 28. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: But like, I mean, just up to you. Right. But like the last time I had a sip of my partner, she had a drink when we were on vacation. That was a year and a half ago. I had a sip of alcohol.
Speaker: Yeah. Um, so if, you know, I'll take it if it's a medicine or something, but like, I, it's not my, I just don't like it because I know what the consequences that you don't have to be a teetotaler anything. i don't know if I am teetotaler, but you don't have to be as extreme as me, but you do have to remember that alcohol will generate stomach heat without a doubt. It does other stuff too, but it, and liver. Yes. You're, I mean, if you're saying alcohol goes to liver first, you're right.
Speaker: But in the process, it will heat the heck out of that stomach. And his tongue was straight up geographic. It was yellow where it had a coat and blank where it didn't.
Speaker: And so you're like, duh, you know where it's going. And I knew right away that this guy wasn't going to go herbs first, which was totally fine. Kind of read the room when you're when you're an acupuncturist, right? It's good to read the room and know like what their capabilities are and where to start.
Speaker: um And so I told him, great, we'll just do acupuncture, check in in four weeks. And in the meantime, i want you to, oh, and he does like five to seven cups of coffee a day, by the way. um So it's coffee in the morning and then alcohol at night.
Speaker: ah That is a stomach fire on stomach fire. It sure is. So i was like, okay, well do this for me. If you can just every day replace one of those cups of coffee.
Speaker: with a cup of dandelion tea, which you can get in any store, just dandelion tea. And then the other cup, I want you to replace of either alcohol or coffee of licorice tea. That's it. You can get both of those in any store.
Speaker: It doesn't even have to be a natural food store. And Pugong Ying, dandelion, and Gan Cao generates. So Gan Cao to generate the fluids, Pugong Ying to clear heat. it's a great start. Not to mention you're decreasing by two cups, something that's inflammatory. One of those. So, you know, like that's a great start. If he could just start there, that's like a really good start for him.
Speaker: Totally. Just out of curiosity, cause we're, we're talking about this scenario already. Uh, let's say he makes some, you know, like, uh, concessions with his diet lifestyle and he's, you know,
Speaker: doing some stuff, some improvement, but really kind of plateaus, right? And you're like, he's not going to cut down anymore. How do you then, do you pitch the herbs? How does that go? do you tell them we've hit a wall with what we can do? That's right.
Speaker: And you know, if he was willing to do acupuncture every week, we might be able to just do it with acupuncture alone. So like let's say he hits his wall at 20 drinks a week. He's like, I just can't go less than that. Otherwise, you know it's not fun to go out and I just lose the zest for life.
Speaker: Okay, maybe alcohol is your thing. So if you can get down to 20 drinks and let's say he brings his coffee from five to seven and a day down to two to three a day, we could work with that.
Speaker: We really could. The 20 drinks is the harder part, but two to three cups of coffee, I can work with that any day. um And so that's where we would bring in... keep doing some of these herbal teas. Cause it's funny, even if people want to herbs, sometimes they will do these boxes of herbal teas.
Speaker: Got it. Right. Smart. Yeah. So little things like that. Sometimes they'll do capsules. So a good example is like, what if he just took Kwong Nian capsules? He could take two capsules a day and that would be equivalent to one scoop of Kwong Nian granules a day.
Speaker: Oh my God, that would change. And so if he's willing to take all these draw other drugs, usually they're willing to do some capsules. so that's a great way to start and start with less because if you're like, all right, you to do 24 capsules of this awesome formula i just made for you. You're going to do it. So yeah, I know.
Speaker: And if you think about what's the acupuncture point for Huangman? naing Yeah, there it is. So clear the fire to preserve the yin, man. And then would you da ching ye? Would that be your other main one or huang ching?
Speaker: For stomach fire? For the liver. Oh, yeah. It's stemming from the liver at this point, I'm assuming. That's a great point. i think um I would say he's more heat in the stomach.
Speaker: But um so you're right. The interesting thing about alcohol when it comes to a liver is it doesn't stagnate a liver. It inflames it. um um So you're right. Like if I could add one herb for clearing liver fire.
Speaker: um Well, I know it's not Lee Gong Tang. I know that. I do not use Lee Gong Tang. If I was going to use one herb for him, I might do Long Dan.
Speaker: Just Long Dan Cao. Oh, yeah. Just because it's so potent and it's so targeted. And already in capsule form. Because there's no way would drink that. Exactly. um And so and I don't know if they do capsules of other single herbs. It's really cool they do the Huang Lan capsules, though. So that's super helpful. And you're right. Huang Qin could be a great option.
Speaker: Da Qing Ye, also a great option, especially if it's Toxic Heat, which he interestingly wasn't showing a bunch of. So funny enough, if I was going to add one other herb for him, it wouldn't even be a liver herb. It would be a stomach yin herb, but I don't, they don't have singles of those. So like one of my favorites for rebuilding stomach yin is yujuu.
Speaker: Nan shashen, maidong, also great options, but yujuu with the jade bamboo. Yeah. So nice. Jade bamboo. You know what I'm talking about. Fills up the the the jade liquid, man.
Speaker: Oh, it does now. Well, because stomach yin. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Nice. For those of you want to know about that, you can go back to our Jing episodes. Oh, the last thing about this is when they talk about, they're listing all these things it's good for, and they say it's good for frequent yawning and toothache.
Speaker: too thick toodache it's It's not connected at all. They just listed like seven things and they're all comma, comma, comma, and then it's just like, and so it's like the, and that you would say at the end of a list, right? So you're like a grocery list. If you're like by beans and onions and tomatoes by beans, comma, onions, comma, tomatoes and corn, it doesn't mean onions and corn are connected.
Speaker: got it got it but don't buy corn it's inflammatory um so so here we've got toothache and when it comes to toothaches i mean are you kidding dr guo he wouldn't even i mean i think he probably just couldn't stop diagnosing things just because he's 80 and he's been doing this for so long but when i said like he wouldn't even diagnose he would just be like oh you've got bad breath natin for you and like every single time and you're like Really? And it works. And you're like, okay, guess they're all stomach fire, but they aren't all stomach fire. Like you can actually have bad breath for a lot of other reasons, but...
Speaker: Yeah. I think he was just so fast at diagnosing that it didn't look like he ever diagnosed for us. But he did. Yeah. he His visual diagnosis, like his facial diagnosis was off the ah charts too.
Speaker: he'd like he He would be like, you three out of seven women have gynecological problems. And then they'd look at each other and be like, oh shit, we just been found out. Outed. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah That's a neat trick. so And that's that's our microsystem that we always talk about, the face is the genitalia. Oh, yeah. Also, Family Guy talks about it, right? When his nuts are on his chin.
Speaker: That's true, too.
Speaker: Which is... No, which is not where we would put it because we'd do the testicles as the eyeballs. yeah Right. Which also makes me, you know, staring deep into someone's eyes, it really makes that more funny. Okay. Oh, so then we get to the really big, wow, we won't get to the second point. I know. That's all good. But ah the next line is a really important one. It's called 瘤疤不能食, which is malaria and therefore cannot eat.
Speaker: Very important here that um it's talking about either a Shaoyang disease or a malaria. Yeah. um be So I don't know. the word for malaria means like bad disease, but it's very much, it's called nui. It's very specific. You could refer to that sometimes as other things, I think pestilence and stuff. But but the real answer to that is a Shaoyang disease, which includes very drastically, very prominently malaria. And so if you have these liver diseases,
Speaker: that are stagnated, creating heat. Just like we said, the liver is not moving for the stomach, and so the stomach can't descend, and therefore you can't eat. And so then hence, you have to clear stomach fire and descend the stomach at the same time. So don't forget that when you're clearing fire, it is descending. It's just doing it at the same time.
Speaker: So that's why qing clear downward or drain downward is an important difference, yeah you know clarifying the directionality of it as well. And so, and then also important that it's not from deficiency as in the translation now. Oh yeah. No, no, there's no word of deficiency included in here.
Speaker: Okay. Well then just bad translation because I was like, Oh, here we're using like Nate King to like tonify stomach fire or stomach heat. young i don't know. Yeah. Don't use it for deficient people That is the one. No, no. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And then the last one, you choose well, second to last really, but it said, um if you needle this, they become xing xing, which is like awake and awakened. And it means a couple of things.
Speaker: First and foremost though, I really do think they're talking about high fever leading to comatose. And so when you needle this, if someone is such a high fever that they're you know coming in and out of consciousness, you clear that fever, you bring them back to consciousness.
Speaker: yeah yeah okay and then it how many uh moxa cones yep no moxa cones no it does so this one you can use either one great point though that's a really great point i've never mox at this point once why would you moxa ying spring point that's a fascinating idea um we were taught in school that a gradual heat is like the tonification version of moxa and if you go towards um like the burn in the blister, it can be used more dispersing.
Speaker: Yeah, I could see that. Yeah. This kind of gets to a Chinese point. um Yeah, I would say that that yeah that actually fits very classically with this Neijing phrase. They say like, xo hua like a little fire.
Speaker: generates qi and a da huo, a big fire, eats away at qi, literally eats chi yeah And so this tells us that like when people are trying to tonify themselves and they're like, oh, I should boost my kidney.
Speaker: First of all, you should boost what's deficient. So if you don't know what's deficient, ask a practitioner. Or if you are a practitioner, then do more self-diagnosis or something. Right. but But probably kidneys, you know.
Speaker: Yeah. We're not clandering kidneys. But there's, I mean, I've heard this from more than a few people. They're like, oh, I can't take longevity tonics because I overheat. Well, then stop using the heating ones. Like there's a whole lot of longevity. Like you don't overheat with Chengdi. You just don't do it.
Speaker: You might get stagnated maybe if you're stuck, but you don't overheat with it. And so it's like, well, tonify the part of the kidney that needs the tonification. There is no set longevity formula. The longevity formula is strengthen your organ function, right? And yeah, most longevity stuff is targeting your kidneys, but which side, right?
Speaker: you Or both, right? it Maybe it's a seventy thirty Anyway, so who do you, anyway, what's that? Well, yeah. And if your ah digestion's crap, then don't worry about the kidneys until you do that digestion first. And if your liver's not moving the digestion, well, then you got to do that too. I mean, yeah kidneys are the end of the thing.
Speaker: It's what we want to do. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that's where you start. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. like It'd be like someone being like, oh, well, you want a big business? Then then just hire a big HR department to do your things. Well, I'm a one dude.
Speaker: yeah Just drop 100K into your business and you'll magically be a boss. No, not how that works. Yeah. So it says acupuncture and needles are both three, meaning three fun and three cones for both. Okay.
Speaker: Got it. So just a little bit, but that's also just a little bit in if you're doing it with a nail. Correct. That's right. A little bit of a nail. um That's right. And so a lot of people are like, oh, but the text said only go three fun.
Speaker: Let's stick with this. How about you go until you get the sensation of descending down the leg? That makes a whole lot more sense. And because if this does say three fun, is that three fun in the summer or three fun in the winter? Because then aging says it should change.
Speaker: So they say our acupuncture points should be needled deeper in the winter. Right. Cause deeper Chi. Cause Chi is deeper. so how are you going access Chi by not even touching it? Right. Right.
Speaker: So they don't stick with three fun as a, you know, like a religiously think of it as a guideline. Yeah, totally. And in a guideline when you're using a nail. Oh yeah.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Or even just if if any of you acupuncturists, if you've never tried one, get your hands on a.4 needle, just see what it feels like. That's the first needle I ever, the first and only needle, actually. Dr. Groves, only you've ever given me one needle, which is, but it was a kick in the pants, and it was it wasn't even that painful.
Speaker: was like, how in the world is that not painful? And he just like, boop, just slid it right in. Dude, he used Hoshi, what is that, Small Intestant 3? yeah I mean, that's supposed to be a painful point.
Speaker: I didn't feel any pain. It was the craziest thing. It's got sensation on it. It had crazy sensation on it, but no pain. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a pretty important part of what I took from your needle in class was teaching, teaching of my, to my patients, what the sensation is, because I think, well, I mean, luckily for me, I was still in school.
Speaker: when i when I learned that, so I always got to use that with my practice. But otherwise, I feel like patients would come in and sometimes they still do where they're like, if I feel anything, it's kind of wrong. yeah And so to break that down and to try to give them a language and tool for understanding what they're feeling and how it's, it could be pain, but also can you differentiate between pain and and just this other sensation? That's right. um And it's super helpful. Sometimes they, you know, still, it's not, ah it's a no-go, but most of the time it's pretty good and absolutely.
Speaker: Wow. Super helpful. Yeah. Nice, man. I'm glad. Yeah, i do feel like that's a really big game changer for those. um Because people are usually, i think it's two things. they're Most of them are scared.
Speaker: So if you can get people out of like, oh, I don't want to feel anything to, okay, maybe I am okay with feeling some things. And then they start thinking about what it is instead of just being afraid of the needle.
Speaker: And then number two, like you said, like if if they kind of know, because you then you can explain to them what it's like, and then they start feeling it and they start, um maybe they even, you can start explaining what it's for, right? So the tingling up and down a channel is really for opening a channel, the soreness, the spot stagnation is specifically almost always a fluids. That's right. The distention is the stagnation of chi. So sometimes I think they like that because it's almost like a getting to know process of their own body.
