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Episode 5 — “Molly Lewis: Combat, Policing, and Healing”
90 Plays7 months ago
In Episode 5 of Both Sides of the Badge, Garrett sits down in person with longtime friend and fellow public servant Molly Lewis, whose life journey spans military service in Iraq, years in law enforcement, and now a career in nursing.
Molly opens up about her deployment as a military police officer, the intensity of day-to-day life in a combat zone, and the devastating loss of a fellow soldier only 30 days before returning home. She shares how living at a constant state of alert—“an 11 out of 10”—reshaped her emotionally, mentally, and physically long after leaving Iraq.
From the battlefield to the streets back home, Molly describes how combat trauma carried into policing, influencing how she saw people, threats, and the world around her. She speaks candidly about anger, grief, and the slow realization that trauma doesn’t disappear just because the uniform changes.
Now working as a nurse, Molly reflects on service in a new form—one centered on compassion, connection, and understanding the human struggles behind every call, every patient, every moment. She highlights the importance of empathy across professions and communities, emphasizing that everyone carries unseen stories and unspoken burdens.
This conversation is raw, grounded, and deeply personal—an honest look at what it means to serve, survive, and find a new path forward.
🎧 A must-listen episode for anyone seeking to understand the real human experiences behind the badge, behind the uniform, and behind the trauma.
#BothSidesOfTheBadge #LawEnforcementStories #VeteranVoices #MilitaryPolice #IraqVeteran #WomenInLawEnforcement #FirstResponderStories #MentalHealthMatters #PolicingWithHeart #BehindTheBadge #PublicService #CommunityAndCops #PodcastEpisode #TrueStories #CombatToCare #WomenInService #TraumaAndRecovery #HealingAfterService
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Transcript
Introduction to Both Sides of the Badge Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Both Sides of the Badge, the podcast that explores the human side of law enforcement. Here we step beyond the headlines and uniforms to hear the real stories of those who serve in our justice system.
00:00:14
Speaker
Just like a badge, there is a side you see and a side you don't. Get ready to hear the challenges, triumphs, and humanity on both sides of the badge.
00:00:28
Speaker
I'm ready. What about you? I'm ready. I guess we'll see how goes. Yeah. I think it's good.
Meet Molly: First In-Person Guest
00:00:34
Speaker
Hi, Molly. Thanks for joining me. You get to be the first one where we literally sit down together and do this in person.
00:00:41
Speaker
Yay. Lucky you. Right. Since my daughter dyed your hair today. She did. And yeah we're hoping. I mean, I think it looks all right. She did a good job. I think it looks kind of similar. I know it looks exactly the same as it did before we started, honestly.
00:00:55
Speaker
Maybe a shade darker, so. Yeah. Well, there's less grays. Yeah. We've known each other long enough. Yeah, I hope I don't have too many. I think I i know I do have some. It sucks. 40, man. 40. This is it. Yeah, I hit that spot too. I know.
00:01:12
Speaker
It's hell. Everything hurts and I'm dying. Well, thanks for joining. um This was going to be the fifth episode. Introduce yourself for everybody to know. Hopefully, because Eris is one of the very few females in this world that I would not fight. So I hope she has a good opinion of me. That's fair. um Yeah, so...
00:01:32
Speaker
Let's see. um Originally from Iowa, I am a second born child. I've got a brother that is two and a half years older than I am.
00:01:44
Speaker
Small town Iowa grew outside grew up outside rather of Council Bluffs, um which is like right across a river from Omaha, just to like give you a kind of an idea, which actually Aris ended up stationed at Omaha and I got to go out and visit her while she was there. And i went there a couple
Molly’s Journey: From Military Police to Civilian
00:02:02
Speaker
times. Yeah. See there, her while she was out there. Um, but I joined the army as military police back in,
00:02:12
Speaker
Technically left for basic training July 12th of 2005 was my first day at basic. Um, I did back then what was called the college first program. So it no longer to my knowledge, no longer exists.
00:02:28
Speaker
Um, at least didn't for a long time, it might be something that they've brought back, but basically, I was in high school. I had no idea what I really wanted to do with my life. I knew I liked law enforcement and I knew I liked the medical field, um but I didn't know which one I wanted to, quote unquote, spend the rest of my life doing. um So at the time they had this college first program, I could go. I was at a school that the recruiters came in your junior year and gave the ASVAB the
00:03:03
Speaker
like military entrance exam to everybody, regardless of whether you were going to join or not. And then would start harassing you. um I had zero ambitions at the time of joining the military, had never thought about it.
00:03:17
Speaker
I do not come from a military family at all. um my Both my grandfathers were in World War II, but like back when you got drafted and everyone was in.
00:03:29
Speaker
Other than that, nobody on either side of my family. um My mom's brother was in the Air Force for like four years. But he was stationed at Minot, North Dakota. Absolutely hated it. Understandably so. yeah um And he did one tour and then he got out and entered the prison system.
00:03:51
Speaker
um So really like no one else, I have no idea. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Entered the prison system on the good side? yeah, he was a prison guard. Oh, okay, okay. Well, when you entered the prison side, there's a couple sides. Yeah, no, the good side of the prison system.
00:04:06
Speaker
um So really like no family history of it. Um, I just, again, i knew that I liked law enforcement. I knew I liked the medical field, but I couldn't at that point at 17, 18, see which one I wanted to do my whole life. I graduated 17. I'm just on the younger side as far as coming in, you know?
00:04:30
Speaker
Um, so I went and I did two years of college at the university of Iowa before I ever left. And they had agreed to pay back all federal student loans that I incurred at that time. And so that was still back again. This was I signed in 2003, didn't end up leaving until 2005. So that was when we still had the Montgomery GI Bill, which was like kind of the old school one that everybody thinks about. um i know nothing about that.
00:05:00
Speaker
It's well, so the Montgomery GI Bill was like the original GI Bill that would pay for college. You came in, you did however long you did in the military, and then you got however much money when you got out.
00:05:11
Speaker
um My college first program like took the place of the Montgomery GI Bill. So I signed that away. So I wasn't going to get college then when I got back out of the service. hmm.
00:05:24
Speaker
They paid off what loans I had since I ended up doing more than my initial enlistment. Then qualified for, um, the post nine 11 GI bill, which came out, I think 2005, 2006, something like that.
00:05:42
Speaker
Um, so I actually ended up getting more money for college and ended up after everything was said and done, went back to school for nursing then. So I joined as military police. And then when I got out, ended up becoming a nurse. So I got the best of both worlds.
00:05:59
Speaker
Interesting. in the long run. Yeah, no, that's pretty cool. Where were you? September 11th, 2001. Um, I was headed to school actually. So I was a junior in high school.
00:06:14
Speaker
um Because again, i was late, so I didn't even drive till my junior year. And i was, i had about a 30 minute drive into school every day because I lived closer to town than like the school that I went to.
00:06:30
Speaker
um and it was actually just interstate and I was kind of cruising along. And I remember I had the radio on and heard them come over and say, you know, a building has just hit the World Trade Center. And honestly, you know, being a junior in high school, like,
00:06:46
Speaker
didn't occur to me at the time at all that this was a terrorist attack or anything like that. Like my initial thought was, how fucking stupid are you? Like, yeah that's a big building. How do you miss that type thing, you know?
00:06:57
Speaker
um And then i was like getting off the interstate into town as that happened. So then by the time I got up to the school, the second plane had hit. n But again, like that wasn't even,
00:07:16
Speaker
That wasn't my source of why I joined. It wasn't like... It was for a lot of people. It was. it definitely was. um Definitely probably a lot. Yeah.
00:07:27
Speaker
Yeah. um um wouldn't I don't really know. I know now throughout the years I've heard of a few people that joined from my class, but like... It just... The military wasn't really even something that a ton of people...
00:07:46
Speaker
did where I was from. um The town I grew up in was a lot like meager where we are now, very small and like 500 people. My graduating class was 65 and that was the biggest ever at that time.
00:08:02
Speaker
um But they were all farmers and you know, so like the people that didn't stick around and farm much like here went off to college and a lot of times didn't return. um But so yeah, it wasn't like a big,
00:08:16
Speaker
patriotic thing on my part. In all honesty, i would love to tell you that it was. That developed through time. But my reason for joining the military was really just, like, boredom.
00:08:30
Speaker
And I didn't want to waste... Well, and that's what I was going to ask you, is is it seemed like... What you were saying is you weren't quite sure what you wanted to do. And I'm, what I took away from what you were saying is that's, that gave you an opportunity to kind of explore some things. Yeah. I didn't want to waste money on a degree and come out four years later and have, you know, a hundred thousand dollars in debt and be something that I got into and hated.
00:08:54
Speaker
Right. So. Which is, I think what a ah lot of people are, are, We're getting away from the you shall go to college days to go figure it out. and And if you do go to school, go to make sure you have to go to school for something or go to a trade school. yeah You know, like like my son's doing. He's up in North Dakota and he hates it, but he's going to a trade school. You know, yeah got he got ah ah basically a full ride scholarship from a local electrical company and they sent him off to North Dakota and he's going to come out with no debt. So... Like his generation and lives generation like the the ones coming up now that we're raising are better about that. But like our generation was very much still you graduate and you go to college. Right.
00:09:38
Speaker
You know, or the military. But it just like that wasn't the town necessarily that I was from. That wasn't it. It was just you went off to college. Yeah. And I did.
00:09:49
Speaker
And I had fun. had a great time. But it was two years of life that i knew i was going into the military and didn't really care. you know so So how was it? So you got done with college. What'd you go to college for then? um At the time, i just did gen eds because I knew that, you know, I wasn't going to stay and have enough time to finish degree. So um I just knocked a bunch of my gen eds out of the way.
00:10:16
Speaker
um Left for basic training, like I said, July 12th of 2005. um Since, and Eris kind of talked about this on your first episode because she was also a military police.
00:10:29
Speaker
um But we did one station unit training out of Fort Leonard Wood, yeah, Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. um Didn't bother me a whole lot because again, I was from Iowa, so I'm a Midwest girl. I was used to the weather. right A lot of the kids suffered pretty hard because the summers are very hot and humid and then
Experiences and Challenges in Baghdad
00:10:52
Speaker
winters are cold. And I was there July through December, so we got it all.
00:10:56
Speaker
um It was really cool in December seeing all the kids that had never seen snow before, get to experience snow for the first time. um But then we graduated December of 05.
00:11:09
Speaker
I went home for Christmas for a couple weeks and then was stationed at Fort Polk, Louisiana, which is where I met Eris. Not right away. um i got there and the unit that I had ended up getting attached to was 204th Military Police Company. They were already downrange in Baghdad. um So downrange is when we were overseas fighting.
00:11:36
Speaker
um That's kind of what we called it. um So they were already downrange and I ended up meeting them there. So about two months after they had been there. Cause like coming out of basic, obviously you've just gone through all of your training and everything, but they only do so much. And when you get to your unit, you get a lot more of that in depth, hands on stuff, but my unit was already gone. right So there was, i think like six or eight of us, they ended up, um, doing like two months worth of kind of firearms training and clearing buildings very basic type stuff with each other and then just going to the range and getting qualified on the different weapon systems that we were going to use. And we ended up shipping out of Fort Bliss, Texas and met up with 204th, who was already downrange, and then 258, which is the unit that Ares was with while they were there.
00:12:36
Speaker
um Both units were from the same Battalion at Fort Polk. So you've got like your companies and then the Battalion. um And they were deployed at the same time, just like a month apart or something. So I actually did not know Eris until we got back stateside the following year. um We got back in December of 05th.
00:12:59
Speaker
And I very, very quickly figured out how much I hate Louisiana. We got back in December. i it was maybe June and I was like, fuck this, send me back to Iraq. This place sucks. It's hot. It's humid. gro It's gross. Mosquitoes. Yeah. Birds literally was running my PT test in January when I first got to the unit before I deployed getting attacked by mosquitoes. that's And I was like, this is not, that's not normal.
00:13:27
Speaker
ah That's not okay. Well, down there, it's normal. i I don't care. That's not okay for anywhere. All right. Well, that's kind of cool. So you ended up going to Louisiana and you were there for a couple of months and then got shipped out.
00:13:43
Speaker
ah What kind of things did you go through? um you know, once you got there, like what'd you do? Describe all that. Cause were you an MP by then? Yes. Yeah. ok Um, yes, I was military police at the time. Um, that's why i went army versus, um, any of the other branches because army, you could guarantee your job where, so like when you sign your paperwork with the army, you know, for sure I'm coming in to be a cook, I'm coming in to be military police. I'm coming in to be whatever.
00:14:17
Speaker
Um, the other branches, they may tell you, yeah, we're going to let you be an MP, but then you could get all the way through basic training and they could say, Hey, sorry, but we don't actually have a spot for that anymore. We're going to have you train and be a cook. And there was no way I was going to do that.
00:14:33
Speaker
Um, yeah, what, off yeah, what I did love about, military police is we always kind of joked that we were multi-purpose and that's what MP stood for.
00:14:47
Speaker
Um, and ultimately is probably why I went the route MP in the military versus going medical in the military and then, um, law enforcement.
00:15:07
Speaker
Um, the different things you get to do as an MP were just enlightening to me. It's not just like street work, straight cop work necessarily that like cops do here. You get all of that, but then you also get like the frontline infantry type stuff, kind of depending on where you're at and what you're doing, you know, what area you're in.
00:15:33
Speaker
Um, but our deployment to, um, Iraq, cause I did do Iraq and Afghanistan. Um, but Iraq was 06 and we were in Baghdad and we were responsible for essentially training the Iraqi police or the IPs was what we called them, how to be cops. Like they just literally did not know even the basic function of cops and what they were supposed to do a, because they never really got
00:16:05
Speaker
much training, but what training they do get, they're so corrupt. right Um, it was interesting and it was a challenge. her Let's back up real quick now for your training to be a military police. Did you get that in basic or did you get that in a couple months? You were in Louisiana before you, you know, went over. No, you get it all before you go. As far as like your MP training,
00:16:33
Speaker
You get all the basics. Essentially it would be like you going through um the academy, but then when you get out and you got to your first place that you were a cop. Yeah, they do all of your field training and do. So you get essentially like your field training before you get there, but then you get a lot more in depth.
00:16:54
Speaker
And what kind of things do you guys cover? Like a arrest control? Well, it depended on what your mission was because like, so that's why we kind of always said that military police was multi-purpose because when you were down range, you could have done any number of things. And I did several different. um You could have been a cop on a fob or a J cop, what we call it. them But basically like your forward operating base where everybody lives and everybody is behind the wire where the enemy should not be like where, you know, okay um, so you could be a cop on the fob and all you're doing is responding to normal cop things.
00:17:36
Speaker
Um, domestic disturbances because yeah, even though you're deployed, like people are still married and hooking up or, cheating on their spouses, unfortunately. Um, so you're still responding to things like that, but then they also like, we would pull security for the base.
00:17:57
Speaker
Not only were MPs the ones that did that, but if you had MP units there, they were probably the majority the ones that did it because we were trained in search and seizures, searching vehicles as they come in, things like that.
00:18:11
Speaker
Um, I was lucky in my opinion and I was never what we called a fobbit, somebody that never left the wire. um i did get to go out and work it hand in hand with the Iraqi police.
00:18:27
Speaker
And like I said, we we trained them. um We literally trained them how to use their weapons. They had no idea how to even do that. um We would go in, we would take like our commander in and he would sit down and meet with their commander and go over like different areas of the city that they needed to focus on and why But also this was like an act of war.
00:18:51
Speaker
So in 2006, it was like the height of the war and especially in Baghdad, um the area that we worked, We were on the border of Baghdad and Sadr City.
00:19:06
Speaker
And Sadr City at the time, other than Fallujah, was the hottest area that you could be in. And by hot, I mean like people getting blown up, shot at. Like that's hot when it's a war zone is actively hot.
00:19:19
Speaker
um Raven's making herself known. Yeah, my dog, for those of you that can hear her whining, hasn't gotten ball in days, so she's a little antsy. Sorry, your dog interrupted us. But so what I did was train them and it was not like what you would think of as police work that you do. We were going out and actually like teaching them how to clear the streets for IEDs, things like that.
00:19:44
Speaker
um Again, like the weapons training. I remember one time. we were sitting hat an IP station and we'd been there for a long time. Our commander was in meeting with their commander going over some stuff. And we had donated, like not our unit, but the United States had donated all of of these, like four Rangers and stuff back in the day for them to run around in. and they had gone, they didn't have gas, like fuel pumps there. They had like individual fuel pumps that all of their Iraqi police had to go to and fill up. And they went and filled up and had all these gas cans in the back and had literally probably 15 Iraqi police stuffed inside this little Ford Ranger.
00:20:30
Speaker
And they came hauling ass back in to the IP station on fire because they were sitting in the back smoking cigarettes and ashed into the back of the truck.
00:20:42
Speaker
and caught the fuel on fire that was in the back of the truck. And like, these guys were so untrained, they just bailed out of the truck and left all of their weapons in the truck. So then all these rounds start cooking off. Yes, exactly our faces.
00:21:02
Speaker
um And like, we had to then take cover from the IPs and their weapons and their rounds cooking off because like they were that Well, there's nothing you can do. You've got to let it like burn until you... Right. You've just got to let it go.
00:21:16
Speaker
Rounds are going start going. it's yeah But that was the type of stuff that we did. was like How old were these? were they were they Did they range? like Yeah. They were to age. Typically anywhere from 15, 16.
00:21:30
Speaker
Usually a little bit older. um you know Usually it was like mid early to mid-20s. Up 40s, 50s. Okay. forty s fifty s they should have a little common sense to not smoke around flammable flumes. But this is also a population that when they're celebrating weddings, things like that, they go out and literally just shoot guns off into the air. What goes up must come down is not something that they really take into account over there. So basically while you're over there, you're teaching them some how to be...
00:22:01
Speaker
A cop, like what we would think of as yeah law enforcement. But you're also teaching them how to be soldiers. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It was. Yeah. It was a weird, ah a weird combination because, yeah, you're teaching them how to be cops, but they're being cops in a war zone, you know, which is its own whole added element. Interesting.
00:22:22
Speaker
Interesting. So, well, I mean, how did they, how did they take to that? Were they receptive of it or, cause I mean, we're, we're crossing, you know, cultural background or, you know, lines here too. So, yeah,
00:22:38
Speaker
that is a very multifaceted question. um I think that they were as receptive as they could have been for a population was at war with the people who were then training them.
00:22:57
Speaker
So, um my first deployment Thank God we only lost one. And I say only lost one because it could have been a lot worse. Um, I'm trying, I have listened to all of your podcasts so far, so I'm not trying to repeat a lot of stuff. And I know like Eris already talked about when we were living at Rustemire, um,
00:23:21
Speaker
getting hit with mortars all the time. Like to the point that you we knew how far away they were. We wouldn't even react half the time. I remember coming in off of a mission. It was like a 16 hour mission. We were filthy.
00:23:34
Speaker
They didn't even want to let us into the chow hall to eat because we were that dirty. um And as soon as the four of us, the other three gunners and my medic and I sat down to eat,
00:23:46
Speaker
the alarms went off and it started raining down on us and we all just looked around and went, F that, like we're hungry, we're gonna sit here and eat. And we were literally the last four people in the chow hall and this Fulberg Colonel came through and was like, what the fuck are you guys doing? Get in the bunkers. And we were like, sir, we just got back, we're hungry.
00:24:05
Speaker
um Like that's on the other side of thought, we're not worried about it. And he yelled at us, we just took our trays into the yeah the bunker with us. um But it was, i don't really know why I started telling that story. Um, it was difficult because on the one hand, you're training these people how to be cops and you have to, in a sense, trust them with your life.
Coping with Loss and Psychological Impact
00:24:36
Speaker
But on the other hand, you know, damn well that half of them are trying to kill you. Um, the one soldier that we ended up losing. So October twenty fifth I think of 2006, there was an interpreter that had gone missing from what we called the green zone. So it was basically a spot inside of Baghdad city limits where a lot of our Higher up had shed, lived and was supposed to be considered a relatively safe spot.
00:25:13
Speaker
um This was originally an Iraqi civilian who had come over to the United States and joined the U.S. forces as an interpreter. And since he had been back in Iraq, he had been asking to go visit his family.
00:25:30
Speaker
Obviously, chain command kept telling him, no, there's like huge security issues and everything without. Well, then all of sudden, one day he just goes up and missing. Right. um He is an American soldier. So like we have to go look for him and we have to get him back.
00:25:43
Speaker
And I had said like at the time my unit was on the border of ah Baghdad and Sadr City. And Sadr City was really, really hot at the time.
00:25:54
Speaker
So we were sitting on one of the main Thoreau's. that ran adjacent to solder city. And then we would sit on the overpass that was like the roads leading in.
00:26:08
Speaker
And we had a checkpoint at these three bridges that were down this main thoroughfare, like one platoon was on each bridge. And, Unfortunately, we'd been there for like five days at this point. We had been telling our higher ups that we needed to change up how we were doing things, our times and whatever, um because we were just at that point going literally every single vehicle we were searching to make sure that this missing soldier wasn't there, you know?
00:26:39
Speaker
um And so we were up on top of a bridge and the couple days leading up to it, there had been some like weird incidences where we would have like either the Iraqi police or the Iraqi army. So either the IPs or the IA is what we called them.
00:26:54
Speaker
They were switching out with our rotations. So like one of our squads would come in and have IPs with them. The next one would have IA and whatever.
00:27:05
Speaker
And there was this one group that swapped out that, again, were standing on top of an overpass. So there's a main throw running. It was like a divided highway. right And we were sitting, my truck, I was the gunner. um And we had a couple guys out on foot that were checking vehicles as they were coming in.
00:27:27
Speaker
And it was day five. And again, we had several times said that we needed to change up like when we were coming and going because the enemy knew like every time we would come and go. And the IPs that were with us started firing rounds up into the air and we couldn't figure out why. And you would go ask them and they would never give you like a good reason.
00:27:51
Speaker
um And out of nowhere, um one of the soldiers dropped and it actually happened to be my driver's best friend. I'm going to try not to get super emotional through this.
00:28:08
Speaker
um His name was Specialist Kenny Bostic, Sergeant Bostic, because he got promoted post-humanously, however you say that.
00:28:19
Speaker
um But essentially what we figured out was the IPs were signaling to the sniper and where we ended up figuring out just based off the trajectory of the bullet, because we watched him drop.
00:28:35
Speaker
My truck just happened to be facing him. We watched him drop and immediately pulled up to recover his body. And i found the round laying there when we went out and got him. And the round, it was a 7.62 round, had come in the right side, come in through his bicep, tore across both lungs and his heart.
00:28:54
Speaker
And the only thing good I can say is he was dead before he hit the ground. He never knew what hit him. um We loaded him up to and actually did everything wrong that we were supposed to do. You're supposed to stay on scene because he was already KAA, unfortunately. um You're supposed to stay on scene until someone comes to relieve you. And we did not.
00:29:20
Speaker
um We just left and took him to the nearest fob. And that is definitely a moment I'll never forget. um I had to prop myself up in the turret with my feet up on the turret and my butt up against the other side because Kenny was laying below me. And like every time I looked down his helmet and glasses and stuff were still on, but his glasses had come up enough that every time I looked down, it looked right into his face.
00:29:49
Speaker
Um, And transporting your driver's best friend like was not easy on any of us. This was a whole long story to answer your question as to whether or not we could trust them.
00:30:03
Speaker
No, I think it's a great example, though. I mean, it yeah. um You had to, in a sense. But then also we found out that they were the ones that were signaling to the sniper we think that they were shooting when there was a break in traffic.
00:30:18
Speaker
is what we ended up figuring out. that They were standing up on the bridge and they were watching down the road and they would shoot when they knew there was going to be like a break in traffic to signal to the sniper so he knew when he could take a shot.
00:30:32
Speaker
Now, how did you guys, did you go old school cop tactics and start interviewing or did, like how does that all get figured out? Yes and no. It was pretty much just we had to figure it out on our own.
00:30:46
Speaker
Okay. And, you know, because the the shooting and these gaps had started like two days prior. We'd only been there for like five days um when he was killed. And unfortunately, unfortunately, the mission looking for the missing interpreter ended after that, after we lost Kenny.
00:31:08
Speaker
Because...
00:31:11
Speaker
Essentially, the higher-ups realized that kind of we were right. All the boots on ground were right. Holmeskillet didn't get kidnapped. He bounced. He went back to his family.
00:31:23
Speaker
and We all knew that. We knew that it was a fruitless effort looking for this dude. And now they had another U.S. actually born and raised troop to show.
00:31:37
Speaker
Right. Now, why not change up the tactics? I mean, that's one of the things in law enforcement that we talk about when we're when we're training cops. Like, don't always go the same route. Don't always do the same thing because if somebody is, you know, it doesn't necessarily happen in the smaller communities, but it could. If somebody's trying to take you out and you're being very consistent, and oh yeah so why not? It's like COP 101 and not only COP 101, but military 101, war 101. Like, you have to change I don't know. I wish I could even answer that, Garrett. yeah
00:32:10
Speaker
Sometimes the answer is just because I said so, I guess. Yeah. And a lot of times, you know, it's that i think it just gets to the point where people don't necessarily want to admit that they're wrong.
00:32:25
Speaker
And yeah that sucks. But a lot of times that's the reality. Well, I guess to stay on the heavy side for a moment, how did that affect you?
00:32:36
Speaker
you let's talk about you first and then maybe, you know, your whole, and then everybody else. It's a big deal when you lose somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody close.
00:32:48
Speaker
It was hard. And at the time, obviously like you still have a job to do. So hook me up with one of those. will you Um, you still have a job to do So in that moment, um,
00:33:07
Speaker
Nothing necessarily changed. She, we not that it, I don't know. You always try to like find the good and the bad and just the way our brains work, like we're always gonna sit back and analyze. And one of the hardest things for me was a the fact that we had all sounded the alarm that this was going to go bad. It wasn't a matter of if it was when and no one listened to us.
00:33:37
Speaker
Two, that his life was lost for an event that none of us felt should have been necessary because we knew what had happened to that interpreter. We knew he didn't go missing. right um
00:33:52
Speaker
Watching your driver watch his best friend lose his life right in front of you is indescribable.
00:34:03
Speaker
um
00:34:07
Speaker
It's now almost 20 years later, it's 19 years later, and I can still picture his face. um I don't know that I even noticed it right away. We only had 30 days left in country.
00:34:24
Speaker
So it really sucked that we had made it that long and had it was the 30-day mark before we went home. And we ended up losing one.
00:34:35
Speaker
um So that was really hard that we were that close to getting out of there and didn't. um But
00:34:49
Speaker
the whole just being deployed like Eris talked about, she didn't realize how angry she was.
00:35:00
Speaker
coming home, um i definitely was too. i I would get really mad even just at like posts that I would see on Facebook if somebody woke up and Their power had gone out the night before and they didn't realize it and they didn't have hot water and they would get up like any of us do and they would bitch on Facebook about not having hot water. And Molly would like lose her ever loving mind. Hopefully not on that platform, but I'm not going to say that I didn't a couple of times.
00:35:33
Speaker
um And I didn't realize it really. But. since you're on that, why, what, what kind of, what, what is that striking in you for you to kind of have that reaction now that it's been a little bit time and I'm assuming you've given thought. I don't even know that I could tell you other than basic psychology of war. And that's something that like, I mean, I've got a degree in psych. I love psychology. This is something that has been studied for hundreds of thousands of years. Will we ever have the answers? Doubt it.
00:36:05
Speaker
Um, But you are you're you're forced to operate at this level of intensity that humans are not designed to operate at. you know Our fight or flight was only activated when we were actively chasing something or being chased by something. And when you get into those types of environments, obviously you're on 24 seven. right And that takes a toll on your nervous system.
00:36:34
Speaker
And when you come home, we don't even realize that we're still at an 11 out of 10 all the time.
00:36:45
Speaker
It's the other people around us that realize it and really, Take note, my mom had said something to me several times in like the first, and it's funny because like the military tells you, the first six months that you're back, you're gonna be a nightmare and you're not even gonna realize it. And we all go, yeah, whatever. right it was legit like six months on the dot. My mom had been telling me like, you're really kind of easy to anger and you seem like you're on edge all the time. and a bit Fuck you mom, no I'm not, you know. but
00:37:16
Speaker
Um, and like six months I was like, Oh my God, she's right. Like i am angry and it was something silly, like a cold shower that somebody didn't get. and I like went off the deep end and I was like, Jesus, Molly, like this isn't okay.
00:37:32
Speaker
You know, um I didn't like go to therapy or anything. I probably should have, um, witnessing an event like that is never easy. And then, you know, you're a warrior you're seeing this.
00:37:48
Speaker
Minimum 20 times a day. You know, maybe not one of your own getting killed, but you're seeing dead bodies constantly. I couldn't even tell you how many dead bodies I saw in Iraq. um So your fight or flight is just activated constantly. And I have been out of the military now officially for six years off of active duty since 2001.
00:38:18
Speaker
eleven i haven't deployed. Well, no, I got off of active duty 2016. Um, I haven't deployed since 2011. So my deployment to Afghanistan was 2011, 2012.
00:38:34
Speaker
um Did a lot of different stuff there. So when I was in Iraq, I was a gunner. I was a little low PFC in the army had been in literally two months before I deployed like in the real army. um When I went to Afghanistan, I was an E6, had my own squad. So then I had guys that I was responsible for. um So my responsibilities there were a lot different.
00:39:03
Speaker
um But again, i haven't deployed since March. I got back March of 2012. I still like, wouldn't say i still like ah wouldn't say Am high strung, that's probably just part my nature because I'm super ADD, but I don't know that I would, anyone will ever go back to what they were before war.
00:39:27
Speaker
I don't know that that's humanly possible. I really don't. No, I think it just gives you a different sense than most than most people have. I mean, it's it's it's the same as being in law enforcement. Like, we don't see it.
00:39:41
Speaker
on an everyday, every moment basis like you do when you're in the middle of a war, but you see it in an, over a career, probably just as much, you know, for 20 years, the the suicides and the deaths and oh for sure all of that, you know, version of that stuff, you you never really do become kind of the same person because you've just seen just so much bad. Yeah. So.
00:40:03
Speaker
And it sucks. Um, but I saw a lot of good too, you know? Yeah. Um, I would not change anything that I've done in my life ever.
00:40:17
Speaker
I think it definitely made me who I am today and has made me appreciate what we have here. You know, I get really frustrated like we all do with the state of affairs in this country right now.
00:40:31
Speaker
But you know it even gives you a different perspective, say like on this whole immigration thing, like I don't agree with people coming here illegally, however, I've been to war and I know if I lived in one of those countries and it was me and my kid, I would be doing anything I could to keep her safe. yeah you know um So it definitely gives you a different perspective on life.
00:40:57
Speaker
Being a cop, period, gives you a different perspective on life. you see the good, the bad, the ugly, and unfortunately, most the time as a cop, it's on people's worst days.
00:41:08
Speaker
oh um yeah I was lucky in that I got to do, and that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to do the frontline stuff when I was deployed. I wanted to play Soldier B at war. Why, I don't know, because again, don't come from that. Be a gunner? Yeah, but man, was fun. You're literally like a big kid getting to shoot and blow stuff up. Yeah, drive around, kick ass, take names later. Exactly.
00:41:33
Speaker
But like when Eris came back, she ended up kind of going... the opposite fork in the road as far as what MPs can do. She stayed with more the combat lines of things, and then she went into training and all that type of stuff.
Transitioning Skills to Civilian Law Enforcement
00:41:50
Speaker
um I did get to go through SRT school and when I got back, the SWAT, um but I wasn't ever on the team. um I did get to go back and then work the road, so do... the actual cop stuff that you do where you're on base, you're responding to the domestics, the drunk drivers, somebody not stopping at a stop sign, all of like the things that cops do. Right.
00:42:17
Speaker
I was terrible at it as far as like the actual cop stuff. um I do not have any attention to detail because my ADD kicks in and like, I'm not paying attention.
00:42:33
Speaker
um But you gotta have that when you're even a soldier just, you know, in the middle of a war zone. So, yes. And in that situation I did.
00:42:45
Speaker
The day-to-day stuff like where you as a cop are driving around and you drive the same neighborhood every day. You as a good cop that you are is probably going to notice that like, okay, this 1957 blue Chevy that has not moved in a month and a half is suddenly gone one day. Molly's just off in her own little world does not notice things like that. So look a squirrel. Yeah. Yeah. Very much.
00:43:12
Speaker
I Dersh who, you know, right we have literally had those conversations and had a squirrel go by and stopped mid sense. Oh, look a squirrel. And then right back to I believe that knowing you guys. Um, but I did work the road quite a bit.
00:43:28
Speaker
i had a fun. I learned a lot, but I still saw, you know, the same things that you're seeing there. um I do remember there's a few cases in particular that stuck with me.
00:43:42
Speaker
One was an abuse case of a little girl, um, who ultimately got removed from the home and placed in custody incredibly hard. Um, especially because then at the time I had my own kid. So what it hits hard, you know, hits home even worse at that time, um, had One case that this guy came in and you know he was drunk and having issues with his wife and tore on-base housing apart, which is technically government property. So like okay you tearing your house apart as a civilian, we can't do anything about. right But if you're on post and it's base housing, that's government property. So-
00:44:28
Speaker
That was the excuse to go in pick this guy up. So they brought him in and I was the death sergeant at the time. So like I was the one that was keeping tabs on everybody on the road and kind of had say over who went where to what, you know, right they got this guy in got him in the D cell and just had put him in there initially. Well, he got in and he was angry. So he started punching the walls to split his knuckles open. Right. and then starts painting the D cell with his blood, you know, just flinging it everywhere.
00:44:58
Speaker
So we call EMS, they strap him or they had cuffed him to the bench. um EMS comes in, cleans him up, gets it the room and everything cleaned all up and leave him cuffed to the bench.
00:45:10
Speaker
And I hadn't talked to this dude at all yet, you know, cause I'm man on the desk. I'm seeing all of this go on on the cameras. Right. um And so they cuff him, leave him. As soon as they shut the door, he starts bouncing his head off.
00:45:25
Speaker
We don't have anywhere to like cuff this guy that he's going to be safe then. We didn't have any padded cells to put him in. No chairs or anything you could strap. Yeah, like nothing.
00:45:36
Speaker
Um, so, you know, this goes on for a while. We call EMS back. He looks at him again and it was just literally every time they would leave, he would start doing it again. So finally I got to the point where I was like, I am not watching this anymore. I hear these guys in the back all yelling back and forth. And so finally I left the desk. I had somebody come stand up there and listen to the radio while I went back there and I walked back and I kicked everybody out that was back there and it was all guys.
00:46:02
Speaker
Um, And I just looked at the this student. I was like, what are you doing? And he stopped and he looked at me and he was like, you're the first person that's asked me what is going on and like what I could do.
00:46:18
Speaker
You know, that hit home because that was like kind of that moment in time I realized that i realized How important it was to have that line of just because you're the authority doesn't mean that you get to show up and boss everybody around and expect them to do what they're told. right Like, yeah, this is the military and we have the rank behind us and all of that, but these are still humans.
00:46:50
Speaker
you know And it wasn't that I was the one doing it, but it was a very good educational tool in that moment too. it's a hard thing for, I i think anybody in in probably any aspect, military, even law enforcement to, to understand that it takes something like that for you to realize like, Oh, I, if I show some empathy and I show some understanding and I just treat this person like a human and, and just ask a question, I'm going to probably gain that voluntary compliance and be able to,
00:47:20
Speaker
do something better than just beat our head against the wall. It takes a lot. I remember my first couple of years as a cop, it took me a little while to learn that too. So it really does. And I do think guys, it takes a while longer to figure out. And that's a natural testosterone driven.
00:47:38
Speaker
well yeah. We walk in where, yeah, we're the authority. You shall listen to us. Exactly. Yeah, but um it has served me very well now as a nurse. yeah um I really learned how to read people and how to talk people down in those type of high-octane situations. you know um So it definitely has helped me a lot on this side of things too.
00:48:14
Speaker
What's funny, you bring that up and and we have this this training where um um ah crisis intervention training that you know was really big you know just a couple years ago and I think it's still fairly big um where ultimately you go for a week.
00:48:30
Speaker
think it's a week. um And you go through scenarios and and with real actors and stuff like that. And I went through it and I actually really enjoyed it. I took quite a bit away from it, but a lot of people, they didn't enjoy it I think the reason I did is because I had figured that out. So I did really well in it to the point where they actually wanted me to come like be an instructor in it, but mostly because of that. So all the scenarios that I did ended with, they just cut it because the actors,
00:48:59
Speaker
you know, they can't take it too far. They're given certain guidelines. Like if they, you know, they go this direction, you're allowed to get a little more amped up. but if they go this direction, you just have to comply, right thing, stuff like that.
00:49:10
Speaker
I mean, ultimately, I just walked right through it by doing exactly what you said, even, you you know, you get the, the, the, the vet with the PTSD or, or anything like that, these different scenarios, and you just walk in and you just, what's going on, man?
00:49:23
Speaker
And you use a name too. Like, yeah what's your name? You know, you ask that right off the bat, you know, and and you just kind of get that and you just ultimately what what I kind of realize I'm doing is I'm taking some of that, that and don't want to say power, but some of that, their anger even and just taking it away from them.
00:49:42
Speaker
Because now it's, they're not thinking about it. Now they're thinking about something different themselves, but not the angry side of themselves. So it suited me very well. You know, yeah I've tried to teach a lot of people that. The ability to not further amp up a situation. And there's some guys out there that are really good at doing that. And and it takes everybody a little while to figure that out for sure. um i like naturally a hothead.
00:50:09
Speaker
Yeah. I'm zero. Yeah. I'm zero to 60 pretty quick. Um, but it, yeah, it, it doesn't do you any good. And it is incredible. Like I'm just loud. Naturally. I walk into a room and I'm allowed.
00:50:23
Speaker
I also had to figure out that that was not always a good thing. And even if I wasn't trying to be loud, right people come in and You come into a situation like that and you're louder than them, even if it's by accident, they're automatically going to amp up.
00:50:42
Speaker
So being very aware of your tone and how loud you are and things like that two it was a learning process. and Sometimes walking in and being louder, i would think most of the time, I guess just from my experiences, tends to just...
00:50:58
Speaker
okay, the authority is here and now we have to, but every once in a while you find that person where they're like, Oh no, you didn't, you know? And then yeah it's worse. And then you're like, okay, well, let me bring it back down and see what happens. So then you start matching and then you guys end up on a, on the same page. So I get, yeah that makes total sense to me. Just take some learning. It's, it's nothing like you don't naturally know how to do that. It takes trial and error. I've had a lot of people ask me, like, how do you know how to do that? I'm like,
00:51:24
Speaker
experience. yeah And that pisses a lot of people off. They're like, well, I want to know how to do it. I'm like, you just have to go do it. yeah Go learn how to do it. yeah I can't tell you. I can't make you. I can't even really show you.
00:51:36
Speaker
i mean, I guess I can show you on calls and stuff like that, but I can't, we can't really walk through it. You have to just go do it. yeah We'll keep going on the the whole MP side and then we can you know we'll cross into the nursing side and then both of those really kind of dive into the interactions you've had with law enforcement now. So what other stuff did you do as an MP on base?
00:51:59
Speaker
Oh, I mean,
00:52:06
Speaker
other stuff, it really, I don't know. That's hard question to answer as well. Just because, again, the whole multipurpose thing. um MPs can be like we can get called out in natural disasters. um The whole Katrina thing had hit before I was there. um But they were still kind of it would hit 05. It was like while I was in basic training. So I know a couple of the units that were there about called out and they even have to go do um like or even like for the fires here. The National Guard got called out. They will come in and do um like traffic control. So in situations like that.
00:52:51
Speaker
the people who want to get in and loot houses and take advantage of those can't do that. So they'll go in and they'll do traffic control in emergency situations. Typically that's going to be like national guard versus active duty or reserves and at the state level. But even, you know, if it's something big, they'll pull from that.
00:53:09
Speaker
Um, MPs again, like just the normal day to day cop stuff, but like the way, really they do it is like in cycles. So you'll have like your different units and like three months, one unit is working the road while the other unit is out in the field doing their field training for when they deploy. So all their weapons training, all that type of stuff, clearing, building searches and seizures.
00:53:38
Speaker
um All of that type of stuff that you do here as a cop, you also can do deployed. It really depends on if you're on the FOB, if you're not.
00:53:50
Speaker
um When we were in Iraq, I've worked a lot with like the infantry guys and stuff. Like we would do outer cordons for their inner cordons. So like we would be the outer security if they were going in and raiding a building. okay And then their guys would be the inside security. So like we're essentially the first line of defense.
00:54:16
Speaker
um Afghanistan was a lot of the same thing. um my unit as a whole, we were split up in a lot of different places. In Afghanistan, we moved. My platoon individually moved a lot.
00:54:34
Speaker
um When we first got there, about the first six months of deployment, we were kind of all spread out throughout the country. And then we all co-located to outside of, um right off of Bagram Air Base.
00:54:51
Speaker
So we were like five miles off the end of this stretch on a little cop. And we did the same things as far as like teaching the Afghani police how to police. Mm-hmm.
00:55:03
Speaker
um But we also were doing a lot of like high value target stuff. And me in particular, because of the rank that I was at.
00:55:15
Speaker
And being a female because their culture, like only females talk to females, they won't interact with men. They're not family. Um, so that's what we did a lot there. And then since I was an E six and was already trained in surgeon seizures, I got pulled to go out with SF a lot and was like literally kicking indoors with these guys and doing what we call snatch and grabs on high value targets. That sounds fun.
00:55:45
Speaker
It was a lot of fun. um I did a lot of flying in Afghanistan back and forth on helicopters, a lot of kicking indoors, um a lot of really cool stuff.
00:56:00
Speaker
um One of the compounds that I walked my squad through the front gates of this compound. um
00:56:13
Speaker
Wow. I just had a big brain fart, uh, coalition forces. So like all of coalition forces, anybody from England, like any of our allies, nobody had walked through the gates of this compound in the entire time that we had been at war with Afghanistan until I took my guys through the front gate. Wow.
00:56:32
Speaker
So that was pretty cool. That's pretty cool. Yeah. A little unnerving. I've got some pretty cool pictures of that palace. um But it was pretty unnerving because like we went in and we sat down and we met with them. And I had my entire squad of 15 guys and me and my interpreter inside then palace walls.
00:56:51
Speaker
Right. Sitting down having a meal with these people that they had prepared. Right. Knowing full well, none of coalition forces had been through these front gates in 12 years.
00:57:03
Speaker
well yeah Why did you guys get the invite? Because I'm that good. Nice. Okay. Honest to God. I don't i can't tell you, Garrett. I can't. Fine. I developed a rapport with them.
00:57:13
Speaker
Well, that's kind of And ended up getting in and got... um some information that we needed, but it was really unnerving because again, we're behind the gates. So essentially sitting ducks if they wanted to and then eating their food. So like all of us are sitting there looking around, all my guys are looking at me like, yo, is this safe to eat?
00:57:35
Speaker
And I mean, we waited and watched and made sure that they ate first before we tried anything. Some of the best food ever, but it was scary. i don't even know it I don't even know what to ask after that. That's kind of cool. That's awesome.
00:57:49
Speaker
It was. It was cool. um You were talking about like search and seizure and it it it brought up a question. So search and seizure, obviously us here in this country, in America, we have, you know, very specific rules and stuff like that. How how was that transition? One being in an active war zone and trying to teach cops that haven't been cops to being even at the at the base, like what's the the big difference, I guess? Like being the base still deployed like the FOB? No, I mean like coming back. Back stateside. Yeah, back stateside.
00:58:24
Speaker
Well, it... and know there's some sort of like transition, like clearly there's, there's things you're not going to have to follow over there in the war zone that you you would have to, you know, back home. Yeah.
00:58:39
Speaker
Um, I'm just trying to figure out how to answer because so like our search and seizures down range are not on like what we would consider civilian targets. Like, I mean, essentially could be an act of,
00:58:56
Speaker
you're at war. It's not, you know, so like, I don't really care if you think you have rights in this situation right where stateside you're still like, we still have the same confines as normal cops. Like you still have the, the right to trial. You still have your Miranda rights. You still like, can't be stopped unnecessarily. So like,
00:59:20
Speaker
State side, we're basically just like you, just a normal cop. It's just that the only population we deal with is the military population and the civilians that work on the military base.
00:59:33
Speaker
Now, I guess in that in that, I guess, kind of scenario, if you're on base, you know, back here at home, are there rules that, you know, I mean, if you're on base that you could be searched at any time?
00:59:49
Speaker
Um, technically, yes. Like the minute you pull on post as you're coming through the gate, they can stop you and search you. So like you cannot bring any weapons on base that aren't supposed to be there.
01:00:03
Speaker
Can't bring drugs on base, obviously things like that. Um, but you still have rights. Like right you can't just randomly pull somebody over because you think that they're doing something wrong. You still have to have that problem. problem Probable cause. Probable cause. Okay. To make a stop. No, that makes sense.
01:00:20
Speaker
um
01:00:25
Speaker
Being an MP, getting into the military, being a police officer, how did how how did that make you feel? Like light you up? did you Was it what you expected?
01:00:40
Speaker
um Yes and no. When I joined again, I didn't really have like any ambition. I had no ambitions actually, to be honest, to make the military a career.
01:00:56
Speaker
Um, I thought I was going to come in, do my five years, get out, go back to college. I loved it. I had a blast. Um, there's bullshit like anywhere in any job, but the camaraderie and the,
01:01:14
Speaker
relationships that you build with those around you are, even if I had not been an MP in the military, still very comparable, I think, to police relationships because like you have your buddies back no matter what. right um I had a blast.
01:01:34
Speaker
I learned a lot. I wouldn't trade it for the world. I'm incredibly grateful for my time As a cop in the army, I got off active duty, like I said, in 2016 and I moved here to Colorado.
01:01:53
Speaker
um And I went into the Guard, the National Guard, and was still an MP and ended up getting medically retired in 2020. I had a lot of people ask me why didn't become a cop. After in the civilian world, but that question will eventually come up unless you want to just answer it. Well, and that's, I kind of figured, um, and that, because a lot of people do, and especially any kind of military service. A lot of people get into law enforcement. Right. And it is a, an easy connection.
01:02:19
Speaker
I think I would have loved it. However, i again, 2016, without trying get super,
01:02:29
Speaker
without trying to get super political.
01:02:35
Speaker
Well, i'll just go ahead and say, I don't care. i think Obama was absolutely one of the worst things for race to happen in this country in a long time. I think he really brought back the divide and specifically the divide between African-Americans and law enforcement.
01:02:55
Speaker
And that was really when the talk of defunding the police and things like that started happening. And I was seeing, All of these stories hit social media. And I mean, George Floyd wasn't until 2020, but you know, it was stories like that. All those types things. we going through rough time. Yeah. Like law enforcement was just under the microscope. Right.
01:03:17
Speaker
And I didn't want to deal with that. I knew I liked medical and I really did still want to be a nurse. So I ended up going that route.
01:03:29
Speaker
um I think... In a sense, it's easier to be a cop in the military because you have that rank behind you. Right. You know, it obviously, if somebody's committing a crime, they don't necessarily care about your rank. But it does help some, even if because it's just that subconscious after all the training and everything that they've gone through to have somebody with rank show up.
01:03:55
Speaker
helps where the civilian, you don't have that, you know? And I just didn't like, I have so much respect for law enforcement after being in the military and doing it.
01:04:06
Speaker
I didn't want to come out and be under that spotlight. And I didn't want my love of it to be ruined. Right. So, no, there's, there was definitely been some rough times and things have changed. I'm sure there's going a lot of people that have been in it for, you know, longer than,
01:04:25
Speaker
Well, 10 years, we'll tell you there's been a very big difference over the last 10 years. Yeah. A lot of things have changed and, and some things are tougher. it seems like, but at the same time, um,
01:04:38
Speaker
you know i think we're starting um well I guess my opinion is is that we're starting to maybe come out on the other side of it. So hopefully you know that pendulum is swinging back the other direction a little bit. so Hopefully it just settles somewhere in the middle. That would be nice, yeah. so That would definitely be nice, for sure. um Now, just to stay with the... i remembered a question that I had thought of when you were talking about being back stateside and doing cop work. How did investigations... I'm an investigator now. How did investigations...
01:05:06
Speaker
work So you were talking about, um, you know, a child that got removed and stuff. So if you guys are out working patrol, you, how do you get calls? you Um, I'm assuming it's not nine one one.
01:05:18
Speaker
And then yeah actually it can be, yeah, they did. It just reroutes to like the local police department, which is us, you know, just like here. Um, and it was, it was, she actually, this call was one that took place off base, but it was a military family. So we got involved.
01:05:34
Speaker
I was not investigations, but military police has their own investigations division, MPI military police investigations. Um, so in those situations they would get called.
01:05:46
Speaker
And then if they deemed that it had to go higher than like errors had talked about CID, which is our criminal investigations division. Um, They're kind of, i I liken them to like our FBI, like the military's FBI kind of.
01:06:02
Speaker
um They deal with a lot more of like the the murders and the the rapes and the child trafficking. All that still goes on. Yeah. All of that still goes, like people think the military bases are safer.
01:06:16
Speaker
Oftentimes they actually have higher crime rates than the towns and cities around them because you're taking people from across the country who come from very different backgrounds and throwing them all together.
01:06:29
Speaker
true melting pot. Yeah. The true melting pot. And as much as we want to think and hope that racism and things like that don't still exist, they very much do. So it sounds like basically what you're saying is it's kind of the same thing. You you you get a call, you show up, and it's like, oh, no, we need investigations. Yes.
01:06:44
Speaker
Do you guys hold the fort down, call out investigations that come out yeah then and there? Or is that like, well, I mean... obviously yeah have to Obviously, case by case. But typically, yeah, whoever was on scene, if this was something that needed to be escalated, MPI would then come out. If MPI gets there and says, hey, this is out of our scope, CID is called in.
01:07:04
Speaker
Cool. Type thing. So kind of same thing with you, like the street cop would call or like show up somewhere and be like, this is not my room. Hey, Garrett, get out here. Yeah. Yeah. And then you get on scene and you're like, whoa, this is way deeper than what I even thought.
01:07:18
Speaker
I've got a call now and escalate this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's definitely ways to do that. I mean, just, you know, i can speak for Colorado and I'm pretty sure it's kind of the same and in a lot of states, but, you know, you get your your local jurisdiction, your municipality or your county.
01:07:33
Speaker
They have their own investigations and ultimately they're going to be limited. So then you go to, we'll just say um you know, maybe like the state investigators, which would be, you know, like in this case, Colorado Bureau of Investigation, which have a lot more resources. And if it gets above them, that's when you start making calls to federal agencies. Exactly. So just, you know, keeps escalating if yeah if need be. Same thing, chain of command.
01:07:58
Speaker
oh um So how was... I guess we'll fast forward a little bit. How was getting out of the military? How did it make you feel, i guess, not maybe not getting out of the military, but how did it make you feel not being a cop anymore?
01:08:12
Speaker
Oh my goodness. Um,
01:08:18
Speaker
well, I mean, I'm a nurse now and it's like totally the same thing. Just not, um, You know, like I can take your life or I can save your life. What will it be today?
01:08:31
Speaker
um and you know, as well as I do, like how much somebody upsets you're just going to go with that bigger gauge a needle. Yeah. That nursing is intertwined with law enforcement and we end up working together on a lot of stuff.
Balancing Family and Career Post-Military
01:08:45
Speaker
Um, Getting out of the military, there's a whole like prep phase that you have to go through, which is actually kind of a more recent thing. it used to just be like, hey, you're done here. Thanks for your service. Good luck. Now the military is doing a very good job.
01:09:05
Speaker
Trying to prep soldiers for civilian world. They will help you with your resume. They help you like apply to college if you need it They try to get through and do your entire like exit physical because you come in with a physical, you leave with the physical.
01:09:21
Speaker
Um, Try to get that all set up so that you can get your VA access and everything before you leave. And they tell you like, what a difficult time you're going to go through and you're going to miss the camaraderie and you're going to miss the, the chain of command and things like that. And every single soldier ever goes, no, I'm not. I'm so excited. I can't wait to get out. And you get out and it's about six months and you're like, Oh my God.
01:09:44
Speaker
Yeah. Can I go back? You missed some of the consistency, some of the rules. Yes. Because it seems like a free-for-all when you're out and about. It really does. And that, again... Structure. That's the word was looking for. Yes. Six years later, I'm still searching for that structure.
01:10:01
Speaker
um That's, I think, probably what I miss the most. And not even necessarily the structure, just A lot of times the civilian world, I look around and I'm like, nobody really knows what's going on. No one's in charge, at least in the military. Like you knew where to go. Yeah. Yeah. No, I can, you know, yeah.
01:10:22
Speaker
Um,
01:10:26
Speaker
I guess you got, you're, you're prepared, you're out. And, um, well, I guess then what? No, no, actually now I remember the question because I didn't have it written down.
01:10:40
Speaker
Um, I kind of forgot it again. mostly because you have so many things that like, you know, to get that I want to ask, but I'm a weird case.
01:10:51
Speaker
Um, so I nurse, but I only did nursing. So I graduated nursing in 2020, literally at the height of like right when COVID hit, right um, live. My daughter was, how old was she? 20. that was like five years ago and she is 16 now. So she was,
01:11:11
Speaker
nine, 10 at the time. um And Matt, my ex-husband, was out in Scranton, Pennsylvania. And I'd had her from like basically since she was five until then. She would go out and visit, but we were far enough away. It wasn't like every other weekend.
01:11:27
Speaker
um So when I graduated nursing school, we moved out to Pennsylvania. And I started work nursing out there. And thankfully, she did not enjoy Pennsylvania. And we moved back here. And that's when we moved to Meeker. And since then, i have dropped down nursing to PRN, which is basically just like as needed. I Technically have to pick up two call shifts and then one shift a month, um, for the hospital that I'm at.
01:11:58
Speaker
But then I typically will do like one travel contract a year, which one travel contract is usually 13 weeks. So about three months, um, I'll take off and go nurse full time. Other than that, I work on a ranch because I'm outdoors.
01:12:15
Speaker
It's fun. It keeps me active. um But I have my disability money to fall back on. So I am at 100% disability. um So I really, like, since leaving the military have just made it a focus to be present.
01:12:35
Speaker
I only have the rest of this year and next year with her still under my roof. So I am now focused on live and making sure that I'm here.
01:12:48
Speaker
i missed way too much of her life when she was young. My Afghanistan deployment, um I deployed two days before her second birthday and then got back like three days after her third birthday.
01:13:03
Speaker
Was home. No, I missed her fourth birthday because I was in school for recruiting and then was home again for her fifth birthday. I missed her first birthday. So like the first birthday of hers, I was actually present for on her actual birthday was her fifth birthday. Yeah. So getting out, have made it so that I'm available.
01:13:29
Speaker
I'll go back to full-time work when she leaves for college. for a little while. that makes sense But right now that's my focus is just my kid. No. And I, and I can understand that wholeheartedly. You know, I left the agency I worked for, for a really long time. I went to another one, which was amazing, and I still wasn't happy for some reason. And, and, you know, Brie brought it up to me one day and I thought, and I thought, and I thought, and ultimately it's like,
01:13:58
Speaker
want to be off the road. I want to be home with my family more because, you know, my first was about to head out. My second will be heading out in a year and a half. And then the third, a year after that.
01:14:09
Speaker
So I want to be present more. I want to be home more. I want to be more normal. The first five-ish years, I was on nothing but nights, it seemed like. um you know I've missed you know those birthdays, those birthday parties, um Christmases, Thanksgiving. I've missed so much that now I want to do it.
01:14:29
Speaker
Exactly. so And that's that was my drive to... As a cop, you almost always are on shift work. Even, you know, like there's obviously different jobs you can do. You're now an investigator and you've got more normal hours now, but you can still get that call where it's, Hey Garrett, you got to be here. yeah And you're missing Christmas again. You're missing whatever birthdays. And I just,
01:14:56
Speaker
nursing is the same way. It's the kind of nursing I do. I do emergency med, acute care, med search type stuff. So that acute short term typically.
01:15:08
Speaker
Um, but nights, weekends, holidays, you don't get those off. And so that's, I still am very happy being there and doing all those things. And like, if I'm on ah a travel contract and away from home, I will happily work every holiday so that anybody else can have that time off with their family. But if I'm home, I want to be home with my kid. right you know I think that's a lot that, I think that's something that people don't quite understand that that aren't involved in you know nursing um or even in law enforcement or you know something similar is what we miss and the toll that it does take on us. And sometimes we don't realize it because we're out doing our job, right? We're just...
01:15:51
Speaker
trudging along, getting things done at the beginning, it's fast fun and stuff like that. But then we we even we fall into that trap where we take that for granted. And then suddenly one day, boom everything's over. And you sit back and you're like, holy cow, I missed everything. And then you feel guilty.
01:16:11
Speaker
Yeah. It seems like. Yeah, very guilty. And it it wears on... I think all of your relationships, but obviously the ones closest to you.
01:16:25
Speaker
um Who was your last guest? What was her name? Megan. Megan had said something. You asked her about what it was like being married to a cop. And it was funny because she pretty much was like, I would have it no other way. And I get that. Like on the one hand and especially being a female, Um, in this line of duty, we're always like her and heirs have both said, trying to prove ourselves. If you're especially, i mean any cop, any soldier that's worth a shit doesn't want to be the weak link. Right.
01:17:07
Speaker
Women especially have that added toll because we're not as strong physically. So we have to make sure that if you go down that I can pull you out. Um, I don't know really why I started talking about that, but, oh, i I have run into both scenarios where being with someone in the military felt like I could never be with someone who wasn't in the military right because they just don't get
Women in Military and Law Enforcement
01:17:37
Speaker
it. And nursing is a lot the same way. Like you come home from a 12 hour shift and you have just spent the last four of it coding somebody, some kid, some whatever, doesn't matter.
01:17:52
Speaker
And you go home and you're expected to go home and then cook dinner and do the dishes and laundry and have a conversation with your significant other. and So I totally get what she means. Like I would not have it any other way because he understands when I walk through that door, if I look at him and just go, I need a shower and I need a minute. Right. Like your significant other gets it.
01:18:14
Speaker
You and Bree, I know have had to go through that process of her learning that when you come through the door, I'm mad or I'm not even necessarily mad. I'm just depleted. Right. And I need a minute to just sit and do nothing but stare at a wall. Yeah. And you know, um, so on the one hand, like being with someone who understands that is great. But then I ran into being in the military,
01:18:49
Speaker
Anybody that I had ever had a significant relationship with, I outranked. And that adds a whole nother dynamic to things. I can see that. Because love you guys or not, men don't take orders from women very well often. you know It's just kind of the nature of the beast.
01:19:06
Speaker
And so it was often a competitive of at disadvantage because we felt like we were competing with each other or maybe they felt like they were competing with me and I'm just naturally competitive.
01:19:20
Speaker
So you know um it's a weird dynamic. should Should we use Bree's kind of nickname for you? What is my reasoning Oh.
01:19:33
Speaker
You're like, it's probably not perfect. I mean, but I don't care. Like the worst lesbian ever. Yeah, I am i'm the worst lesbian ever. But I'm not a lesbian, guys. I just act like one.
01:19:44
Speaker
No, you are very competitive. Like you you go out, you fight like a man, you run like a man, you work like a man. Yeah. And so i the reason I say that and that, that Bree says that because of that, you are competitive in that nature. yeah And I think that comes from, um, it's funny that all the, the most of my guests so far have been women.
01:20:11
Speaker
that are willing to share their story like that because the men aren't, but that's a whole different, different topic, but you come out and, and yeah, you're just that competitive.
01:20:23
Speaker
Yeah. Um, and I do think that typically the women that you see in these jobs are going to be that way. You have to be, you know, you're entering a male dominated field. You know that you are going to have to prove yourself every day um,
01:20:39
Speaker
ah I think for most of us, that's what we like, you know, um, I'm definitely not here to prove myself, but I will, if I have to. Right. And I, I did it enough. I, I think, you know, it's okay to say i was really good at my job.
01:20:56
Speaker
well Um, not the attention to detail stuff necessarily. Like I said, I was terrible at that kind of thing as a cop, but I'm really good with people.
01:21:08
Speaker
um I got too much of my mom in me to be a cop cop, I think, because my mom is one of those people. Like she's a saint. She's a freaking saint. Everyone loves her.
01:21:18
Speaker
um Yeah, you know that. Like Bree, every time my parents come into town, are they coming up to see me? Yeah, she doesn't want to see you. No, she doesn't. She doesn't care about me. um But my mom is like, she will never see a bad thing in anybody. She never, she always sees the good in people. She doesn't ever want to believe the bad.
01:21:39
Speaker
And honestly, that's a lot how I am too. Like I always give people the benefit of the doubt, which obviously, you know, as a cop is not necessarily the best thing. You can't do that. Right. That can get you killed. Right. You know, in the wrong scenario, you trust the wrong person and it's not a good thing.
01:21:57
Speaker
But that's where I think having women in these lines of work is incredibly important because like you said, like you've had more women on because we're more willing to talk. Right.
01:22:08
Speaker
That's a question I've gotten a lot like about military and service, you know, inevitably people always want to know how many people have you killed?
01:22:19
Speaker
I think a lot of people are more weirdly.
Mental Health in Military and Police Roles
01:22:23
Speaker
i don't think I've ever asked anybody that question though. You're a cop though. You know that that's not something that you ask. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I've never. Yeah.
01:22:30
Speaker
Um, I've, I've gotten it a lot. yeah My answer is just always, I look at people and I just say, listen, respectfully, I get that that's a morbid curiosity, but that's not something that if anyone's ever taken a life that they want to relive, right you know, but I've had a lot of people throughout the years who will come to me and ask me questions. And I will very candidly answer because I think it's important that we don't hide those things and don't hide those struggles because That's how we've gotten to where we are in the mental health crisis that we're in just as a country and everything.
01:23:06
Speaker
The military, because we've been at war for so long, unfortunately has had to get really good at dealing with mental health and they still suck at it, but they're a lot better than what they used to be. Well, yeah. i mean, you and all, you know, September 11th and from then on, um, is what's really changed a lot of,
01:23:26
Speaker
And it's trickling. Tactics for anything. man Yeah. Mental health and just. It's trickling down into the civilian workforce, but you guys aren't there yet. You know, like cops still need to do a much better job of supporting their own when things happen. And I always have a really hard time.
01:23:49
Speaker
You still see cases of people that like join the military and get through basic, get too basic in AIT. And go, this isn't what I sign up for. And I'm like, it is 2025. What do you mean this isn't what you signed up for? How do you not know what you signed up for? Pull up any YouTube video and you know what the military is like. right Kind of same thing with police, you know.
01:24:10
Speaker
um I think people, you've got an idea of what you're getting into, but then getting there and actually seeing it are two different things. Some people can handle it, some people can't. No, I think that's a good way to look at it. Probably even even the same as as getting into the military. Like you can watch all the videos you want. You can talk to all the people you want, but you have no idea what it's like until there's bullets flying over your head or you're doing chest compressions or, in you know, in your case, chest compressions or in my case, pulling a body off the side of the road or no, you you have no idea. Yeah. and
Decision-Making Under Pressure in Dangerous Situations
01:24:48
Speaker
And sometimes that's, nope, that's not what I thought it was going to be. Yeah. Yeah. And you can't teach that. You know, you have no idea how anybody is going to react in that situation. And in all honesty, like you don't even know how you're going react. You may have been in that same situation four times before.
01:25:04
Speaker
And for some reason you show up today and it just hits different. Well, going back to my critical incident in 2010, when I was shot in the line of duty, I can tell you this, that I wasn't scared to pull the trigger, but I did hesitate. And you always think that you're not going to.
01:25:22
Speaker
But at the same time, I think a lot of it just, what I attribute it to that I've thought about a lot is every firearm scenario ever that I had been trained, maybe like over-trained, too much to think about, um popped in my head in that just, you know, that moment because it was, you know, 30 seconds from us being on scene to when I got shot basically. and And that's where I hesitated, like, can I shoot?
01:25:49
Speaker
and Yeah, i totally would have been justified in shooting. but And that's hindsight's 20-20. Of course you would have been justified. But it's a literal split second that you have to make that decision.
01:26:02
Speaker
And it is like all of your training comes rushing back to you in that split second. And you know, okay, not only... Yeah, I have a threat in front of me, but I'm thinking about what's beyond that threat that I can't see. How far is my bullet going to travel if I miss my target? Am I going to hit an innocent civilian? And again, the the civilian line of cop work, you're under the microscope even more than the military line, you know. um But we still had all that. And especially the time that I was there, our ROE, our rules of engagement were really changing.
01:26:43
Speaker
especially the second deployment to Afghanistan. um Iraq, when I was there, was still very hot. So our ROE was a lot more loose, but you still had to make sure that you had positive identification of who was shooting at you. Like if somebody was shooting from a building and you didn't see the muzzle flash, where it came from, or the person shooting you, we couldn't engage. right Same thing as a cop. And like you said, like you hesitated,
01:27:12
Speaker
A, don't ever feel guilty for that because anyone would have, I think, in their right mind should have. um I had several more times than I could count that I could have pulled the trigger on somebody downrange and taken their life yeah and didn't.
01:27:29
Speaker
And I'm glad that I didn't because clearly it wasn't warranted. If it was warranted, they would be dead today. you know Well, then you have to live with it, like you said. Exactly.
01:27:40
Speaker
you know That's something i think – We all get into these lines of work knowing that one day we might have to take somebody's life and or give our life. But
Sharing Real Stories to Counteract Stereotypes
01:27:51
Speaker
at the same time, if you take it and you and you take a life and you and you enjoy it, I think that's a bigger problem than hesitating for a moment to make sure that hundred that's what you need and or want to do type thing. Because then you got to live with it. You don't want to talk about it if you don't have to. And you definitely don't want to talk about it with somebody that doesn't understand.
01:28:13
Speaker
That, I think, is the biggest thing. I think we have to talk about it. Right. Well, that's what this whole this yeah thing that I'm doing is for. Like, we got to talk about all of this stuff so that people know. Like, you and I have in this conversation might help another person want to come in and talk. Like, we got to just talk. Let's just freaking talk. And that's always been my biggest thing because...
01:28:35
Speaker
Um, our generation as a whole has been better about it than like what our grandparents were. i mean, i don't know if you've had family that was in like World War I, World War II, Korean War, any of those things. i'm sure. I feel like I have, but nobody close enough that I've ever talked to about it.
01:28:53
Speaker
Both, like I said, both my grandparents, my grandfathers were World War two I never heard a thing about it from either one of them. right um My mom's dad really never talked about much with me.
01:29:09
Speaker
My dad's dad didn't really share stories with anyone but me. And it wasn't until i had joined, been deployed, come back, that then he would start telling me stories.
01:29:22
Speaker
um I don't think anybody... Yeah, but you were part of the group. Exactly. you That's what you knew. You've been there. Exactly. they could They could relate and they could, at that point, know that they weren't screwing me up with the stories that they told. Like Eris talked about, um, calling home and talking to your mom about things and telling her stuff. And she used to tell her a lot of stuff until she didn't because she realized it was weighing on her.
01:29:52
Speaker
Um, I didn't tell my parents really much of anything while I was there. I called home a lot and I talked to him, but i didn't talk to him about the stuff that was going on per se, because I didn't want them to worry. Um, i will typically answer any question that anyone asks very honestly now, because I see a lot of my battle buddies that don't talk about it.
01:30:19
Speaker
and the curiosity that civilians have because they only see what they see on TV. Right. Or they only know what they see on TV. And it's the same thing with police.
Honesty in Military Recruitment
01:30:30
Speaker
They only know what they see on TV. And unfortunately the news is not out to make us the good guys. So I think it's incredibly important that we do tell our stories and talk about things so people can understand, but,
01:30:48
Speaker
um
01:30:51
Speaker
i yeah I mean, my my thing is, is, is I was a field training officer for a long time and I would do my best to not provide an opinion, but I would provide all the information yeah so that then that, that trainee could decide what it is they wanted with the problem.
01:31:15
Speaker
why and you know everything, all the W's. I feel like even in this scenario, let's provide all the information, something that's not Hollywooded up, if that, you know, a thing or even everything you see on the news or, and it's not all cops. It's not all go out, kick ass, take names, high five, walk away.
01:31:34
Speaker
You know, we got to put it all out there. So then maybe somebody that wants to get into the military now, maybe they're like, oh, I i don't want to do that. Or No, that sounds like it's right up my alley. Same with law enforcement.
01:31:46
Speaker
You know, Oh, that sounds like it's right up my alley or it's not. Yeah. Put all that information out there. Yeah. And that's, and I, I try to, um, I recruited my last like three and a half years of active duty and I was absolutely terrible recruiter because I was brutally honest, brutally honest to these kids walking through the door because I was very much of the mindset. I had Olivia at that point. She was four or five years old and I looked at these kids and thought, if this was Liv sitting with a recruiter, what would I want her to know? I wouldn't
Handling Traumatic Experiences and Support Systems
01:32:19
Speaker
say my recruiter lied to me. My recruiter definitely omitted.
01:32:22
Speaker
Um, so I was brutally honest because I think it's important. Um, but also, like I said, like I just in that way as as a whole, because it is not easy for everyone to talk about it. So I think if you have the ability to talk about it and share your experiences that you have the responsibility to do so. i think that's fair. It's reasonable. A hundred percent.
01:32:48
Speaker
And then that's probably why most of the guests have been Um, female so far. And then there's Pete who's gone through some, some really traumatic stuff since leaving law enforcement, which is why he got out of law enforcement. And he's reached a point where I want to talk about it. So now he's sharing it. So that's, that's where we're at. Even, even me for a long time, you, you and I, we still have never sat down and had a conversation like this about really anything. Even Aris and I hadn't.
01:33:14
Speaker
No, so I've never like heard the full story about when you got shot. And that's, you know, and I'm not saying that I need to, but just even that I'm saying like,
01:33:24
Speaker
You know you could talk to me about it any time. But i think just having that sometimes is enough, too. Knowing that you can talk to someone that understands because you don't want to put all that on your wife and kids and the people closest to you because that's a lot for them to carry. And they're not in that line of work. you know I mean, you guys have been married long enough. You know what you can tell her and what you can't. still...
01:33:51
Speaker
i still I'm not going to say I'm finding that line with Tanner. um
Transferable Skills Between Service Professions
01:33:58
Speaker
He listens to all of my stories, but there's definitely stuff that I come home that he looks at me and he's like, really right now, do you have to tell me about this? You know, it's just a different world. The things that they don't even affect me, ah you know, but.
01:34:14
Speaker
He's not used to that kind stuff. Yeah, he's not used to it. It's like something we've dealt with, you know, we deal with on a very regular basis. yep Some of the things we have to say and they're like, really? You dealt with that? And like, yeah yeah, that's just a Tuesday. Yeah. That's an that's hourly event. You've never seen that or heard of that or what? Like, so yeah. Um, but yeah.
01:34:33
Speaker
Um, how did being in the military get you ready for going into nursing and what are kind of like some of the similarities? Um, well, I think being a cop definitely. Cause like I said, it really helped me I had already dealt with people in their worst moments.
01:34:56
Speaker
you know um No one's calling the cops on a Tuesday to just say what's up and I hope you have a good day. like Typically when you're dealing with the police, it's not ever a good interaction.
01:35:08
Speaker
um Nursing, unfortunately, a lot of times is the same respect. like you're When you're dealing with nurses and especially in the yeah ER or med surge, it's because something is happening. Right.
01:35:21
Speaker
but it It gave me the ability to look at people in those scenarios and understand that it's not about me. um Them flipping out and throwing things at you isn't ever about you. It's about them and what they've got going on. um Really helped me with the de-escalation tactics. That's huge in nursing right now. And it's not something that gets taught well enough.
01:35:53
Speaker
think it's huge in, in kind of everything right now, especially law enforcement. It's big we deescalate because there's a lot of mental health issues. Yeah. So yeah. like Um, but, and where do us cops bring people that are going through crisis? Exactly. Right to us. Right to you. Yeah. And, and, um, it's, it's a double of sort. Like the nurses obviously know the cops don't want to be in that situation, you know, like,
01:36:21
Speaker
we
01:36:25
Speaker
no I think there's a lot of people that think cops want to be in some of these situations. But those are the people that don't know. like Ultimately, if if anything gets taken away from this show or even just this episode, like nobody wants to shoot somebody. Nobody wants to hit somebody. nobody wants i If I could not get a call when I was working patrol for an entire day, then to me, that's a win.
01:36:51
Speaker
Yeah. Because i don't, it's my job to do it. I don't necessarily want to do it because I'm lazy. I don't want to do it because that means...
01:37:01
Speaker
and naturally I naturally don't want to be a bad person, but when you're a cop, sometimes you have to be a bad person to, to, I guess that's a bad way to put it. I'm going to, I'm going to caveat that. It's not that you're being the bad person. It's that someone else has made a decision that has made, that has put you in a position that you have to do your job. And unfortunately that makes you the bad guy. And yeah, And what I guess what I was getting with that with the bad person is a lot of people, especially with what we see in on the news and and TV and stuff like that, believe that cops just want to go out there and just beat the shit out of people or kill somebody. Yeah, which is so far from- don't want to do that. Yeah, the truth. We might have to. Majority of cops don't ever want to be in that George Floyd situation. No.
01:37:52
Speaker
For so many reasons, A, because you don't want the spotlight on you, but B, like you're literally taking someone's life, whether they quote unquote deserved it or put themselves in that situation or not, it's still another human being. And every one of us would rather help that person through it.
01:38:10
Speaker
I always took it more personal when I couldn't de-escalate a situation and had to use physical force. Yeah. I always did. i One of the last arrests I remember making out on the road um was a DUI arrest.
01:38:22
Speaker
music mon 20, 21 year old, so younger. And I tried and I tried to just talk and I'd get him to kind of cooperate and then I wouldn't. And at some point you just kind of got to make things happen. yeah And at the end of it, I would get back into the patrol car when the whole thing's done and I'm you know by myself and i I got mad at myself because I'm like,
01:38:44
Speaker
You could have done better on that so that you didn't have to do that. But at the same time, I also know like there is a point where I have to, but I took it personal. Yeah. I should be able to talk some of these, most all these people down. Not all the time are you goingnna be able to talk everybody down, but.
01:38:57
Speaker
Not all, not all the time will you be able to talk everybody down, but also you're not going to be your best all the time at talking somebody down. You know, I mean, again, like you're going from call to call to call. You could have just come from a fatality accident and you have,
01:39:14
Speaker
some kid's face burnt into your brain and then you show up to a domestic and you're trying to deescalate that and you're already at a nine out of 10. It's real hard to work yourself back down at that point. Like we are all still human. We do our best.
01:39:34
Speaker
But ultimately we're still human and we're going to have those reactions and emotions. and Well, to circle back around to something that you said before when you when you when you came back you know from being, i think it was even in Iraq, and how angry you'd get just just because. Yeah.
01:39:51
Speaker
I think you just hit it it. You get that way because you're like, really, this is your problem when that just happened and that makes you angry. Yeah. That was a hundred percent of it was like, I would look at the things that people in this country were complaining about and just go, you have no idea how good you've got it. Right. You know?
01:40:13
Speaker
Um, but that doesn't mean that they're wrong right either. No, right. You know, like it's just different worlds. It's just different experiences. Well,
Compassion in Service Professions
01:40:25
Speaker
somebody might have just had one of the worst days, you know, somebody died or or something like that.
01:40:32
Speaker
And that's the most important thing that happened to them that day. But then somebody... somebody's car got broke into and that's the most important, most worst thing that happened to that person. So everything's different. you know right They lost a wallet, they they lost their phone. like That's the worst thing for them that day. Yet it's not for somebody else. And I think people take don't think about that and what it is, even like nurses, doctors, teachers, cops, anybody in those kind of professions, we we see a lot of that just based on what we do.
01:41:07
Speaker
And nobody else really thinks outside. Exactly. It gives you the perspective because you have the perspective working in the ER r and you have somebody come in that has to sit and wait for a couple hours before they're seen and they get upset and you look at them and you're going, good buddy.
01:41:28
Speaker
It's good that you've got the time to sit here for a couple hours before you've seen, because I'm working a trauma right now, trying to keep this 12 year old alive and it's all hands on deck. Like be happy that you get to sit here and wait.
01:41:43
Speaker
But when they are sitting out there and they've, had a migraine for three days that they can't get to break and they haven't had any sleep, like that is their worst moment right then. And to them, it doesn't matter what's going on. And you have to be able to still be compassionate for those people.
01:42:02
Speaker
I think it takes a lot out of you sometimes, but. And I don't think you technically can, but I feel like maybe I have in the past where somebody was getting pretty upset about not getting seen and been called.
01:42:14
Speaker
And I literally just told him, you know why you're still sitting here? Because this just happened. And ah your thing isn't the most important. And that actually went, ah, okay. Then I'll shut my mouth and I'll sit down and I'll have, yeah. I have used that before too, you know, um very much so. Looked at people and said, you know, be happy that you're sitting here waiting because you can sit here and wait. but
01:42:39
Speaker
Well, cool. um How...
01:42:44
Speaker
how has the nursing side changed you? And then the next question after that, if you want to roll right into it will be, how has the combination turned you into you? The combination of military
Challenges in the Medical Field Post-COVID
01:42:55
Speaker
and police and nursing. Yeah.
01:42:57
Speaker
Um, how has nursing changed me?
01:43:04
Speaker
Um,
01:43:07
Speaker
that's a difficult one right now because I'm really struggling with saying struggling with, Western medicine. So, well, I just, since COVID, obviously, like we have seen a lot change in the medical field, and that was hard because it was literally when I graduated.
01:43:30
Speaker
And so it seems like it turned the medical field upside down. So I thought I was getting into is I mean, still a lot of, you know, what I thought I was getting into, but I don't agree with a lot of the way things are done, um, and how we treat medicine, but I love nursing. I love taking care of people.
01:43:57
Speaker
Um, I really like being that person that can be that light in their darkest days. Um, I have used my disability quite often and still do because I'm at 100% disability through the military. right um So I'm in constant chronic pain, which I think most people from the military deal with and among other things, but that's
01:44:29
Speaker
You get patients in who, you know, you go in and you ask them, hey, are you in pain right now? Because
Avoiding Burnout in Demanding Roles
01:44:34
Speaker
obviously one of the things that we got to treat and they'll look at you and go, yeah, I'm an eight out of 10 as they're sitting scrolling on their phone.
01:44:40
Speaker
Um, And a lot of other nurses and healthcare professionals will look at that and go, you're fine. Like you look fine.
01:44:51
Speaker
um And i have used that. I'll look at them and go, how much pain do you think I'm in right now? And they go, nothing. And I'll go, I'm a six out of 10 right now. Do you know that I'm a hundred percent disabled? And they go, what?
01:45:05
Speaker
You're disabled. And I go, exactly. Don't judge a book by its cover. And like in nursing and medical field, especially, it's so important. It's not my job to decide whether you're in pain or not. It's my job to treat it. If I think that you're not truly in pain and that this is an addiction, then it's my job to get you the help and the resources that you need to get over that addiction, not to deny you pain.
01:45:29
Speaker
Yeah. Which is a whole other episode. Yeah, that is a whole other. I ah try not to go that way. um But that it's helped me. It's helped me in my nursing career for sure.
01:45:41
Speaker
um They are both very closely related. um I don't know that I could do anything else with my life at this point that's not...
01:45:58
Speaker
some sort of service to others. You know, I don't want to do it 24 seven cause it does drain on you, very much so but that's, I am lucky that I can kind of go back to it when I want and get that fill. And then if I'm getting to the point that am taxed, step away for a little bit. Right.
01:46:17
Speaker
Which is, a great place to be in because a lot of people don't have that. You know, that are servants, public servants. Yeah. And I think it helps me not lose my compassion, you know, because you get burnout, you know, when you're doing it all day, every day you get burnt out.
01:46:33
Speaker
Um, so it, it's afforded me the ability to step away when I need to and come back. She notices your stress quite a bit. Doesn't she? She does. She's been very vocal. I know. She's my unofficial therapy dog.
01:46:50
Speaker
Well, Molly, I appreciate your time. I think we're getting closer. We can wrap it up. Anytime. What would Molly share with Molly, you know, 20, what to say 20 years ago?
01:47:08
Speaker
You're not going to change the world. I think that's what Megan said too. Really? i think so. have Something similar, I feel like. um Yeah. i I can only affect what I can affect. I spent a lot, a lot, probably my first 10 years of active duty trying to change the way things were done around to me. um But I think realizing that
01:47:39
Speaker
I don't have to try to change the world that just having that impact on whoever I'm dealing with in the moment oh is what's important because that can literally change somebody's life, especially in those moments. If they get
Empathy and Understanding in Public Service
01:47:56
Speaker
a good cop to deal with or a good nurse to deal with. even if it is a situation of they were just in a fatal car accident and they lost a significant other, you can be that person that makes or breaks that entire situation in how you respond.
01:48:15
Speaker
And it's a heavy load to carry, um but I think it's a really good one and it's a really important one. And I think the people that are in these fields need to remember that.
01:48:29
Speaker
and know that they may not change the world, but they may have changed some little girl's life for the rest of their life. it's It's funny that you bring that up. And just the other day, I i changed the the background. I'm gonna open up Facebook real quick to the Facebook page.
01:48:46
Speaker
Because I got asked couple years ago by somebody I was working with, like, how do you do this so long? And then just how do you do it? And um i got to thinking about it And that's what I came up with.
01:49:02
Speaker
Read it. To be a warrior when faced with others' adversity. The reason. Yeah, that's the reason. And then that's the why. Yeah, that's the why. Yeah. I think that kind of sums it up, maybe, is it kind of what you were saying, too? Yeah, because not everybody... I mean, like, I came from a very mundane background. Like, my parents are saints. Well, like, I just... We were very open growing up. We talked about everything. You know, I didn't... I'm not...
01:49:28
Speaker
I wasn't neglected. I had everything afforded to me that I could have ever possibly wanted. Not everyone has that same luxury. you know And i just think it's important to if you're the, not everyone, not everybody has the ability to run into a building that they know they're going to get shot at oh to save someone else's life. And if you've
Open Dialogues for Societal Understanding
01:49:53
Speaker
got that in you, you've, you've,
01:49:57
Speaker
You have to, you know, I mean, not everybody can do it. And I think that kind of rolls into the last question I'd want to ask is what, what do you want somebody that doesn't know to know about being a cop, being a nurse, being in the military, being a civilian? Cause now at this point, you're not either one of those. You're a nurse now. I mean, you're a nurse, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Um,
01:50:19
Speaker
what do you want what would you want then What do you want to tell them so they understand and they can learn and maybe be compassionate or have some extra empathy for all of us? I think um
01:50:34
Speaker
exactly that, compassion and empathy. But looking at things in your own day-to-day life and understanding that That's everybody just on a bigger scale. you know um
01:50:54
Speaker
Everybody, like we we talked about, like so you could have just come from a fatality crash, but me getting my car broke into, that may be the worst thing that's ever happened to me like in my entire life. right Where then the other people are dealing with that same level of
01:51:16
Speaker
insecurity and betrayal on the world's part every day. Right. You know? um And you as a civilian have to be fluid in how you treat people and how you interact with people. You as a civilian are not going into every interaction the same.
01:51:36
Speaker
Neither are cops, neither are nurses, neither are... Judges and prosecutors, like every situation is different. And all of us that are in these fields have everything that's happening in our personal lives going on.
01:51:53
Speaker
at the same time as your work lives. So a little compassion, definitely. um But also understanding that the vast majority, just like everything else, the vast majority of cops and investigators and nurses and prosecutors are good. And they get into it for the right reasons. Some of them may have been corrupted along the way.
01:52:18
Speaker
But the vast majority are doing it for the right reasons and talking to those people and continuing to have open dialogues and open conversations. The only way that we're ever going to be able to move past this point that we're at right now of, um,
01:52:39
Speaker
defunding the police, you know, moving away from that. Like we have to have these open dialogues. And I think I would just encourage anybody who is listening to this to have the conversation. And
Conclusion: Staying Connected and Engaged
01:52:54
Speaker
especially if you don't agree with the things that cops do or that medical professionals do, sit down and talk to somebody yeah and find out why.
01:53:03
Speaker
Don't just assume that you know. Yeah. We don't have to agree, but we don't have to argue about it either. Right. Right. So it's good to listen to both sides. And really, you can have your opinion and they can have theirs. And we don't have to fight about it. Yep. So.
01:53:19
Speaker
All right. Well, Molly, i appreciate your time. I'll let you head out because I think we all have to make dinner now. at the Yeah. so yeah And I need to get this little thing home. Get her.
01:53:32
Speaker
That's it for today's episode of Both Sides of the Badge. To stay connected and hear more stories that shine a light on the people behind public service, follow us on your favorite podcast platform and social media.
01:53:43
Speaker
Until next time, stay safe, stay open, and keep looking at Both Sides of the Badge.