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1: Former MP - Aris Duncan
67 Plays8 months ago
Aris is a former Military Police officer in the United States Army, where she served for six and a half years, including two deployments. During her service, she worked in Military Investigations, gaining firsthand experience in some of the Army’s most demanding environments. After leaving active duty, Aris continued her service as a contractor, deploying two more times overseas. Today, she’s here to share her journey—the challenges, the lessons learned, and the perspective she’s gained along the way. And full transparency—Aris isn’t just a guest; she’s also my sister.
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Transcript
Introduction: Garrett and Eris
00:00:00
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
00:00:29
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
00:00:31
Both Sides of the Badge
right. Seems to end a little soon, so maybe we can work on that.
00:00:35
Aris
Yeah.
00:00:36
Both Sides of the Badge
um Well, Eris, my sister, is joining me on this first attempt at a podcast, so hopefully it goes pretty well.
00:00:48
Both Sides of the Badge
um Sis, if you want to introduce yourself first, and then and I guess I'll introduce myself after that, and we'll kind of roll right on into things.
00:00:57
Aris
Sounds good to me. Always, a always excited to join you on your ventures when you have new ideas of things that you want to do. I'm usually the first person he bounces something off of, you know, at least after his wife. And
Garrett's Law Enforcement Experience
00:01:12
Aris
then, uh, what do you think?
00:01:14
Aris
I'm always like, Hey, I'm down, whatever you need. I'm in this. Tell me what you need from me. So, um, but with that, I am heiress. I am, uh, Garrett's sister, younger sister at that.
00:01:27
Aris
And, uh, yeah, here I am.
00:01:31
Both Sides of the Badge
Cool. um Well, and as the host of the show, I'm Garrett.
00:01:34
Aris
Thank you.
00:01:37
Both Sides of the Badge
I've been in law enforcement for 20 years. I've mainly worked on patrol as a law enforcement officer ah in Colorado. I've seen a lot. Current spot, I'm an investigator for a district attorney's office.
00:01:56
Both Sides of the Badge
So yeah, my main reason for wanting to you know try to do something like this is to you know show the the other side of law enforcement that people don't see.
00:02:02
Aris
Thank you.
00:02:09
Both Sides of the Badge
um you know that The stories and and the dark times and the good times. you know Bring in prosecutors if we can, judges, all those other people that you know, most people might not realize are actually involved in law enforcement in some way, shape or form.
00:02:30
Both Sides of the Badge
So,
Eris's Military Background
00:02:32
Both Sides of the Badge
you know, it's going to be kind of a, you know, casual sit and and talk, you know, I'm sure there'll be some, some tears and some laughs, but yeah, that's kind of the purpose of both sides of the badge.
00:02:36
Aris
Oh.
00:02:47
Both Sides of the Badge
Um, Yeah. So, Aris, I know what you've done, but nobody else does. So, start us back off in 2000. Well, you know, start from where where we grew up.
00:02:59
Both Sides of the Badge
Where'd we grow up? California. And then we moved to, you know, Colorado and
00:03:01
Aris
oh
00:03:05
Aris
I think one of my favorite questions with heavy sarcasm is when people ask me, where are you from? And that's ah that's a really big question for me.
00:03:17
Aris
And the reason being is because of my, i guess, history. So, you know, originally being from California, moving to Colorado at a young age, mostly growing up there.
00:03:32
Aris
Joined the military. so then I was stationed somewhere, you know, I was in Louisiana for a while. um and then moved from there, you know, I've kind of lived in multiple different States, multiple different areas.
00:03:45
Aris
So that one's definitely a, a hard one. It's like, what point in my life are you referencing? When can somebody asks me that, but, uh, yeah, we, you know we're we're born in California and I'd like to say we're kind of still raised there because we spent the summers there with our grandparents and cousins and whatnot so we had a pretty um you know very family involved childhood so I like to say or at least I feel that our lives were kind of shared between California and Colorado I don't remember
00:04:18
Both Sides of the Badge
I still consider myself from Colorado, though.
00:04:22
Aris
Yeah, you've been there a lot longer than me. So I guess I can say that, you know, moved, we moved to Colorado when I was five and you know, you were six, probably almost seven since you're a little bit older than me or you were
00:04:35
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah,
Military vs Civilian Law Enforcement
00:04:36
Aris
about seven.
00:04:37
Aris
Um, you know, that's where I started all my schooling and did all my schooling, but we moved a lot. Um, I can't even tell you how many schools we went to, i think.
00:04:46
Both Sides of the Badge
how we went to a ton of them.
00:04:47
Aris
Oh, yeah.
00:04:49
Both Sides of the Badge
Elementary school was crazy. There was like five of them.
00:04:52
Aris
Yeah, there were so many.
00:04:52
Both Sides of the Badge
I think it was just because they kept changing borders and districts and stuff.
00:04:56
Aris
Yeah, I think so. yeah, once turned 18, there's of history.
00:05:03
Aris
a lot of history in in between there about my life. But um about 18, almost 19, I joined the military um with encouragement from my parents, mostly my mother. And joining the military was something I had always talked about. There wasn't really anybody within close proximity um Relative wise, I think maybe great great uncle or, you know, grandparents, sibling their grandparents or parents, you know, nobody that I was really close to that was in the military.
00:05:28
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
00:05:36
Aris
So, but it had been something I'd always wanted to kind of do, or at least I was interested in and then things happened, you know. In my teenage years, nothing bad, um but it just kind of changed the course of of where my life went. And eventually like the military part came back around. And so um ended up joining the army.
00:05:59
Aris
I did six and a half years in the army. um Basic training was in... Missouri, um they called it one station unit training. So basically it's where you do your basic training and your AIT. So your training that basically teaches you what your job is all at the same place. Right. So upon completion of that, I got stationed at Fort Polk, Louisiana, which it's no longer called Fort Polk. think it's Fort Johnson.
00:06:30
Aris
ah can't keep up with that, but Fort Polk, Louisiana at the time. um And I pretty much spent all of my military career there. So I did six and a half years minus the two years that I did, on deployments in Iraq. So my last deployment happened because I had gotten orders to go to Alaska and i was trying to get out of them. Cause I, since living in Colorado, i even to this day, I dislike strongly dislike being cold.
00:07:02
Aris
Absolutely. Can't, can't stand it ah So when i yeah, that's, yeah, that's how I feel.
00:07:05
Both Sides of the Badge
I've reached the same spot in my life. i I need beach. Just beach.
00:07:13
Aris
Yeah. So when I got those orders to Alaska, I was like, how do I get out of this? And we were still pretty hot into, you know, into combat during the time into war. And they were like, well, you know, this unit is supposed to deploy soon.
00:07:28
Aris
i think it was like four months in four months or so, maybe less the, they need, um, they need um and NCOs and non-commissioned officers um to basically have some sort of experience in this unit to be able to deploy. So I was like, I'm in, I'm volunteering, send me back to Iraq. And so I don't have to go to Alaska.
00:07:50
Both Sides of the Badge
That's, I'm not sure I'd trade Alaska for Iraq though, especially during that time. Cause you joined, i think in, was it 05? You hopped into the military and went off or was it 04?
00:07:50
Aris
So that was my, yeah, that,
00:08:02
Aris
Yeah, it was, cool it yeah, it was November 2004 when i went to to basic training.
00:08:03
Both Sides of the Badge
It was 04.
00:08:09
Aris
So it was still pretty early on. um But yeah, i I did from November 2004. And then my technical end of service time was February of 2011.
00:08:23
Aris
um But for those who may know about military, you have leave that you accrue, you get like two and a half days every month or something like that. And because of our our operations tempo for deployments, i I didn't really take a lot of leave. So I had about two months saved up of vacation time towards the end. So they
Emotional Challenges in Service
00:08:42
Aris
call it, you know, terminal leave. You can take all your leave balance and then you get a couple of weeks. So I ended up finishing technically in like December, mid-December of 2010, but my final date was February, 2011. So deployment was 2006.
00:08:56
Aris
um first deploy was two thousand that To 2007. Was either 2005 to 2006 to 2007.
00:09:06
Both Sides of the Badge
Well, let's back up real quick. lets Let's talk about like basic. What kind of things did you do? Like, I don't know. I know what it was like to go through the police academy, which is definitely not structured anything like going to, you know,
00:09:06
Aris
Well.
00:09:18
Both Sides of the Badge
you know, bootcamp basic for you guys. So what was that like?
00:09:22
Aris
oh well I think a key part here that I haven't disclosed yet is what I did when I was in the military. Right. So I signed up to be military police.
00:09:34
Aris
Um, and I remember the recruiter coming to the house who you actually know, um
00:09:41
Both Sides of the Badge
Yep. I'm not him.
00:09:42
Aris
Yeah. And he has a ah very successful security company now, which is fantastic. But I remember him coming to the house and chit chatting with me and he asked me what I wanted to do. I'm 18. I have absolutely no idea what I want to do with my life. Right.
00:09:54
Aris
And um you happen to be going through the police academy, I think at the time, or you were, you were on that path to to become a police officer.
00:09:55
Both Sides of the Badge
Thank you.
00:10:02
Aris
said, I don't know. I want to do what my brother's doing. how does that translate into the military? I didn't know. So he said military police, and that's kind of how I got into the field of military police, but, um, basic training, uh, it's not for the faint of heart, I guess, or at least I should say it used to not be right.
00:10:23
Aris
Um, Hindsight's always 20-20. And so I look back at it now and i and I'm thinking that was probably the easiest time of my life. But being 18 years old is the scariest thing because you're away from home. You have these strangers who are all around you going through the same. Everybody's emotions are all over the place. Some people are sad. Some people are excited. Some people, you know, are scared. And some people are just...
00:10:50
Aris
you know, straight blank. like they They don't know what they got themselves into, right?
00:10:54
Both Sides of the Badge
Right.
00:10:54
Aris
And and um
00:10:56
Both Sides of the Badge
but Sticking with that real quick. So I know we both took off on our paths about the same time. i think you had actually signed up um for the Army before i went into the police academy because there was a time where I went to the recruiter's office, you know just over down the way, and I sat in front of that recruiter's office. I'm like, all right, mate, I think this is what I want to do too because you would already signed up.
00:11:23
Both Sides of the Badge
I sat there for hours just in the car, just staring at the door, and finally it boiled down to, yeah I don't think I can do that.
00:11:23
Aris
um
00:11:31
Both Sides of the Badge
I'm not sure I have the personality for that and then getting into what you're explaining, like taking off and being in this foreign place with all these new people and having all these people scream and yell at you and, and really just try to beat you up emotionally and physically.
00:11:47
Both Sides of the Badge
I just, I didn't think I was, was ready for that when I was, well, shoot, what was I? 19 at the time, 20, somewhere right in there.
00:11:55
Aris
here
00:11:56
Both Sides of the Badge
So, so yeah. So how did the, the rest of your time and basic go?
00:12:05
Aris
You know, it wasn't too bad. i think most people who have been through basic training in the military, you have different, they're called phases. You start out with the screaming and the yelling, and basically it's geared towards breaking you down completely.
00:12:19
Aris
um It breaks you down to basically reset you and restart you on a different path, right? But it's all meant to grow you into being Dr. Rachel Kahneman, resilient and tough and to teach you that when you are pushed to your limits, you still have the capability to keep going.
00:12:40
Aris
Rachel Kahneman, And you know, and even when you're scared, you can still accomplish things, even when it's hard, you can still accomplish things and it's not just an on an individual level it's it's as a team as a group right so.
00:12:54
Aris
Kahneman, The basic training involves a lot of individual stuff, but it it's very. much a ah team effort. um Everybody works together to accomplish a task or a goal.
00:13:08
Aris
And that is what that is how you build your relationships. That is how you build your your brotherhood, your sisterhood within the military. You you bond.
00:13:19
Aris
but wouldn't say trauma bond, right? Into into and a certain aspect, right? It's like a lower level of a trauma bond when you're getting screamed and yelled at and
00:13:25
Both Sides of the Badge
I think there's probably still some of that though.
00:13:27
Aris
Yeah, right. But it's it's a way to bond. And it's, it's knowing that you have these other people, they're going through the same thing. And you can count on them to to, to help you, you know, when you are at your worst. And um part of that is what I think helps get people from, um you know, feeling like they have no purpose or that they can't do certain things into to feeling like they are, you know, finally on a on a good path in life, right. And But basic training is is it's wild. You're exposed to different things that you've never been exposed to. And a lot of it is is basic, you know, building your physical and mental um capabilities.
00:14:10
Aris
So and that all starts with the screaming and the yelling and pushing you to do a bajillion push-ups until you can't do it anymore. But they tell you they want more. So you just keep going because you have to, at least in the moment, right? It's a it's the fight or flight type situation. You're either going to Nunez- cry and want to leave or you're going to just continue to fight through it and and that's how you kind of learn that hey I can keep doing this, I can keep going, because if it if it's going to get me to an end state that is beneficial, then then going to keep pushing forward. Amy Nunez-
00:14:39
Both Sides of the Badge
Well, helps you learn your boundaries and and mentally, ah just as humans and the stuff that I've come to learn, you know we we we think we can't do things for whatever the reason, but we're we're always capable of more.
00:14:42
Aris
mm hmm.
00:14:50
Aris
So,
00:14:55
Both Sides of the Badge
I mean, there's plenty of stories out there where people didn't think they could do anything and then they got thrust into doing something. So I would assume that in basic beating you down and asking for more is showing that, hey, no matter what happens to you, you can still overcome it and there's still more to give until really you can't breathe until you're not breathing anymore.
00:15:20
Both Sides of the Badge
Does that seem reasonable?
00:15:21
Aris
Right. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can agree with that um because I think even the military and I think even you know law enforcement, you know the the academies that people go through, it's it's relatively similar. um you know Half the things that you and I have talked about in the past,
00:15:43
Aris
um, in our past experiences or, or, or relatively similar, different planes, but, but, but very similar, right? It's, it's learning your boundaries, as you said, and being able to push through that, but also knowing that you have people to your left or your right that are there to help carry you in the moment that you may or may not be able to carry yourself. So it just builds that camaraderie, helps give you the extra strength that you, you might need to be able to push through.
00:16:10
Both Sides of the Badge
No, I think that's, that's pretty fair too. I mean, even and you know, we'll go you dug into basic just a little bit.
00:16:14
Aris
Thank you.
00:16:15
Both Sides of the Badge
I'll dig into the Academy a little bit. um You know, in the state of Colorado, there's not one that's like main Academy, like some States you have to go to like a state sponsored Academy.
00:16:28
Both Sides of the Badge
um The one I went to actually was, was at a ah community college. um And yeah, we, we did our, our, you know, physical training and, and had to do get up early and do that. Nothing crazy like I'm sure the military makes you do in boot camp and stuff. but and then defensive tactics and firearms. I mean, you're spending 12, 15 hours, five to six days a week with these guys.
00:16:54
Both Sides of the Badge
um i mean, the only day we'd really ever get off, especially at the beginning was, was um Sundays.
00:16:57
Aris
Thank you.
00:17:00
Both Sides of the Badge
So you you build that camaraderie, like you said, and it, it helps that you can count on all those folks around you to help you get you through your initial training. So that way, when you actually get
Parallels Between Military and Law Enforcement
00:17:12
Both Sides of the Badge
out there and you're, and you're doing it,
00:17:15
Both Sides of the Badge
you have that trust just because you know where everybody kind of came from. um It might not have been the same place, but basically. So that's i mean kind of my takeaway of just being in the police academy that's similar to kind of what you're explaining.
00:17:25
Aris
yeah
00:17:32
Aris
Yeah, you know, and I think even through, you know, military training as you as you progress the the level of hardship that you face is it gets it increases right so you're just learning more.
00:17:48
Aris
um And you're you're you're growing. And I think with military training, once you get past the phase that breaks you down mentally, physically, helps you grow. And then once you get past that and you get to a certain level, then you can go on to to actually learn your job duties. And military training,
00:18:07
Aris
Being in the military, i learned all the law enforcement portions of it, right? So as military, we have to work patrol, work the road, just just as and you know anybody would in the civilian world. So in our military bases, you still have law enforcement. You still have people that you know pull you over, give you tickets, all the things.
00:18:29
Aris
um So it's like its own little world of inside of a world, almost kind of like the Truman Show, the movie, the Truman Show.
00:18:35
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense.
00:18:36
Aris
Yeah. um Yeah.
00:18:37
Both Sides of the Badge
That's kind of how I've heard it explained by other folks that were military police.
00:18:42
Aris
I think that's the only way that I can really, you know, try to relate it to somebody who may be like, what is what is life like on a military base? um But, you know, you go from learning that and then the other reality during the time that I was going through was combat.
00:19:00
Aris
um So not only are we being prepped to to do the law enforcement portion of it, but you're also learning how to survive in combat and do different things in combat. So once you get to your unit, you get way more in depth in the training for for combat exercises and whatnot. But, um you know, it's it's.
00:19:20
Aris
also teaching you skills for when you get out. So, and that's, that's what I know now. i didn't understand it then, but I get it now. So my whole military career and everything that I did within the military, um, led me to where I am today, you know,
00:19:39
Aris
um After the military got into the government contracting, um I worked for a company that was contracted through Department of State to provide protection for US ambassadors and other dignitaries that would come to uh, that would come into the country I was in and we would support them when they went from, you know, one place to one place or different meetings or anything like that. And the two locations that i I, served out of was Iraq and Afghanistan. So I had time in both and I did that government contracting for about three years and that involved a lot of travel and involved being gone a lot, which I was already used to from the military. Right.
00:20:20
Both Sides of the Badge
What
00:20:20
Aris
and,
00:20:21
Aris
and Then after that, I got, after I got done with the contracting portion of it, you know, I also went a different path. But yeah, it's it's everything that I learned in my military timeframe and participated in helped shape who I am now and why lead the way I lead or manage and um has given me the direction as to to where I am at in my career path now.
00:20:47
Aris
So I'm thankful for it.
00:20:48
Both Sides of the Badge
what
00:20:51
Both Sides of the Badge
Let's take a step back to um you know going through basic. how did you How did that affect you, I guess? what like The stress level, the anxiety, the emotions, the the physical, how to how did you learn to cope with that? Do they provide you um guidance on how to cope with that? does that How did that all play out?
00:21:17
Aris
Ooh, I really get a dig deep into my file drawers in the back of my mind to remember some of that stuff. Right. But, uh, I think. e As time goes on and progresses in, in training, you start to see the more human side, I guess, of your drill sergeants. Right.
00:21:36
Aris
Um, and yeah, so they've been where you have been.
00:21:37
Both Sides of the Badge
That makes sense.
00:21:42
Aris
Right. So drill sergeants are people who get, get, ah get an assignment, um, it's It's basically an assignment at one point. i think It might be something different now and on how it's set up, but but it back in the day, it was, you know, after so many years, you get put on assignment to go do something else, and being becoming a drill sergeant is one of those. So they do all their training, and then they end up getting assigned to a unit for basic training and You know, the very beginning of basic training, I said, is all the screaming, yelling, trying to break you down and and get you physically fit.
00:22:12
Aris
Once you reach a certain level and they get to know you a little bit better, then you start seeing the human side of that drill sergeant. So when they start to see you struggle, some of them can be very compassionate and they can relate and they can change from being um very strict, very hard, very demanding to, hey, I see you're struggling.
00:22:33
Aris
What's going on? How can I help? um because again, it's, it's all relatable and we all become team. We're all what they call battle buddies or brothers and sisters, right? Like that's how we relate it So I think that was extremely helpful at certain points because they understand what it's like to be away from home for the first time. And, you know, I had a kid, he, I used to call him my brother because his last name was done and, uh, him and I got along really, really well, but he was 17 when he, you know, enlisted and and came to basic training and,
00:23:07
Aris
um you know, him and i we kind of hit it off. Mainly, I think, because we had very similar personalities, but he was he was younger and and there were points in time where he was just so young that he would struggle and and you can fight in your your your comrades, right? But it's the the humanization portion of the drill sergeants when they are able to pick up on people struggling and they can help you.
00:23:32
Aris
But you also have military chaplains, right? So in the military, you know, they still give you the the freedom to exercise your religious beliefs, whatever they may be. um And so the military has chaplains. And so you can go to church.
00:23:46
Aris
You can go see a chaplain and talk about it. You can go see any of your leadership and talk to them about things like that. It was always stress like you can get past this or you should ignore it, but there was this side of them where they saw you struggle and you can pretty much feel comfortable reaching out to them and kind of chit chatting.
00:24:04
Aris
and don't think everybody felt that way. You know, across the board, I think some people probably struggled a little bit more, but for me, like I knew I had that there. And if I didn't,
Garrett's On-Duty Shooting Incident
00:24:13
Aris
you know, I would always start with the people, um,
00:24:16
Aris
that were in my my my training course. um I mean, there were people in my training course that I spent all six and a half years of my military career with, literally from joining from basic training to our first duty station, to our first deployment, and to our second deployment.
00:24:22
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
00:24:32
Aris
ah all through it. um One of them being your your wife's best friend that I served with in the military, you know, which is that's a very small world how that came back and forth, right?
00:24:37
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
00:24:43
Aris
But her and I served together, we were deployed in separate units, but in the same area of operation for our first deployment and deployed together on on the second. So, you know, it's, it's,
00:24:55
Aris
It's just how you you try to cope and get through it. But I also think that there's a stigma that you you can't talk about those things. You can't vent about those things. But, you know, being so young, um it depends on how you grew up, I think, as to how you approached being able to address the things that may be putting strain on you mentally, right?
00:25:21
Aris
So...
00:25:22
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. I mean, so with us and in law enforcement, you start off going through the police academy and, and ah you know, a pretty big chunk of that is is classroom.
00:25:27
Aris
Thank
00:25:34
Both Sides of the Badge
um You know, you're learning the different laws. You're learning, you know, everything. There's a lot of classroom stuff to it. But the part that I don't think a lot of people know is when you get out um but of the academy and you get hired on with an agency, you're going through field training.
00:25:52
Both Sides of the Badge
And that lasts, depends on the agency, anywhere from, i don't know, six most ah places, at least in Colorado that I'm aware of, it it's a 16-week program.
00:26:03
Both Sides of the Badge
After you've already done, you know, 16 weeks or, you know, months, ah four or five, six months in the academy, then you go into field training.
00:26:08
Aris
Thank
00:26:14
Both Sides of the Badge
And you're just not really, i guess, and I'm, from my standpoint, I wasn't really
00:26:23
Both Sides of the Badge
I didn't know what i was getting into, honestly. You know, you you think it's going to be chasing cars and everything you see on the movies, but then when you're in training, suddenly you're sitting in the office trying to type about what just happened and all this other stuff. You don't have, like, the folks that trained me, my field training officers, they they were we great.
00:26:45
Both Sides of the Badge
They taught me a lot of stuff. The one thing I think that, especially for me being young, because I was 21,
00:26:47
Aris
Thank you.
00:26:52
Both Sides of the Badge
Like you couldn't be a ah cop in the state of Colorado any younger than that. um I didn't get prepared enough for all the emotional baggage that would come along. But like you said, you know we were kind of raised to be able to to manage that, maybe not albeit you know all the time appropriately, but ah yeah. And then you know I think everybody's heard of compartmentalizing I think we're pretty good at that.
00:27:22
Both Sides of the Badge
as you as you As you referenced earlier, you know, the files in the back of your brain. But yeah, I mean, after 20 years, I think that stigma in law enforcement is still there. Like, suck it up, buttercup, rub some dirt in it, get back to work.
00:27:22
Aris
I was just about to say that.
00:27:41
Both Sides of the Badge
And I've seen a lot of people that I've known in law enforcement. It takes its toll. I mean, that it beats you up. And they don't
00:27:54
Both Sides of the Badge
they don't prepare you enough for it. you know They say, hey, we've got these chaplains. we've got this ah you know You can go see counselors and you know you can go do all this stuff and and and we're there for you. But at the same time, it's like, hey, boss, I need a day off so I can you know go do something personal. Well, what is it?
00:28:12
Both Sides of the Badge
Well, it's personal. Well, what is it? I'm going to go see a therapist because that person that I just had to cut down because they hung themselves is really affecting me. And then their response often is, well, who are we going to get to cover the road?
00:28:27
Both Sides of the Badge
Well, I don't, I don't know. That's your job. You're the supervisor, you know, and but then you finally just stop saying anything because now you've just got to go to work. So yeah, that whole stigma at least sticks, I think in, in law enforcement, kind of like you're saying too, it's,
00:28:44
Both Sides of the Badge
Suck it up, buttercup. Get back to work kind of thing.
00:28:47
Aris
and Yeah. And I think, ah You know, you and i we grew up in a very,
00:28:57
Aris
I don't know how to explain it. Our our parents, they were, they were great. Right. But I think there wasn't a lot of emotional connectivity.
00:29:07
Aris
maybe in what I mean by that is, is it was the, Hey, you're okay. Knock the dust off. Let's keep going. And, uh, I think that's a, you know, that can be a great mentality to have, but it's all depends on what you are trying to apply it to.
00:29:15
Both Sides of the Badge
now
00:29:24
Aris
Right. So is knocking the dust off and continuing to go applicable to your situation? I don't think everybody, you know, can do that. I think, um, you know, it it also has to do with, um um you know, what generation you're in and and how everybody was was raised and whatnot. So I think the term compartmentalization is is huge because that's really the only way you can get past kind of some of the traumatic things that we've seen.
00:29:55
Aris
um But that also comes with holding in some deep trauma and not letting it out to where you can heal and progress. So then it causes other issues within your life.
00:30:10
Aris
um So I always thought compartmentalizing was was great, but I'm learning as I'm getting older that it's okay to talk about those things or reach out for help or any of that, but it's, it's also when you're in the thick of it, you can't really let those emotions get ahold of you and lose control because if you lose control, it could be the difference between life or death.
00:30:21
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
00:30:37
Aris
Right. Right.
00:30:38
Both Sides of the Badge
Or just even, even I guess I don't want to say it's a lack of professionalism, but you know, just as an example, you know, I was a field training officer, um, for shoot 10, 12 years.
00:30:47
Aris
Thank
00:30:52
Both Sides of the Badge
And I had, um, a trainee and we ended up with a rollover where a, think he was 15, um, it was on the interstate. Um, he got ejected.
00:31:04
Both Sides of the Badge
He didn't have a seatbelt on. So he got flung out the back window, come to find out. And, um, you know Long story short, we do everything we have to there on scene, keep everything together, keep traffic moving, get everybody to the hospital.
00:31:19
Both Sides of the Badge
We do all that on scene stuff.
00:31:21
Both Sides of the Badge
I mean, the kid, he got flung out and there's brain matter all over the place. There's blood, there's this, there's that. It's it's rather traumatizing, but you got to keep your, well, for a lack of better word, you got to keep your shit together in that moment so that you can get your job done and be professional.
00:31:21
Aris
Thank you.
00:31:40
Both Sides of the Badge
And then when you get to the hospital, the same thing, because the family's relying on you as ah as ah the cop, the patrolman, the person that they're going to see that that's the face of law enforcement is the patrol cop, right?
00:31:53
Both Sides of the Badge
And my trainee, she just, and with the family, she just broke down crying and bawling. And and had to pull her aside and I felt terrible-ish, but at the same time I didn't.
00:32:07
Both Sides of the Badge
And I pulled her aside and I was like, hey,
00:32:08
Aris
Thank you.
00:32:11
Both Sides of the Badge
We got to get done what we need to get done, and they are expecting you to be strong for them. So that a way you can answer the questions. And and if they have yes they have questions, we can walk them through it and and you know just everything.
00:32:27
Both Sides of the Badge
When we're done, i don't care if we go back for the rest of our shift and we sit in the office and we just cry together.
00:32:37
Both Sides of the Badge
So that was you know one of the big things like that to just kind of show that that we got to keep our stuff together in the moment. And then later on, we can deal with it. Now, ultimately, I never did.
00:32:49
Both Sides of the Badge
Like you, I'm reaching a point after 20 years where everybody's, maybe not everybody, but you know there's that that metaphor of you know the bucket.
00:33:00
Both Sides of the Badge
you know and And your bucket can only hold so much.
00:33:01
Aris
sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. I'm
00:33:02
Both Sides of the Badge
And sometimes you got to take some out so that it doesn't overflow.
00:33:03
Aris
I'm sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. I'm sorry.
00:33:04
Both Sides of the Badge
and
00:33:05
Aris
sorry. sorry.
00:33:06
Both Sides of the Badge
some point, you know, you're going get a little too distracted and it's going to overflow.
00:33:07
Aris
sorry. I'm sorry.
00:33:10
Aris
I'm I'm
00:33:10
Both Sides of the Badge
And then who knows what, you know, a lot of, a lot of people and, you know, I'm assuming in the military and even in law enforcement, we let that bucket overflow and it turns into anger and alcohol and drug issues and, you know, all that stuff.
00:33:11
Aris
sorry. I'm I'm I'm sorry. sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. I'm I'm sorry. I'm I'm sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
00:33:21
Aris
I'm sorry. sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. I'm
00:33:27
Both Sides of the Badge
It's, it's a very weird thing.
00:33:30
Aris
I think though, if you bring it back to how you handled the situation with your trainees, that brings the caring, sentimental, human portion to the situation, right?
00:33:46
Aris
When you're in the thick of it, you have all that adrenaline going through your body, which helps you get through that moment. And then maybe that adrenaline continues into the next moment, into the next moment. And then there's a point where that adrenaline shuts down and your body starts to realize This is, this isn't, I'm not okay.
00:34:04
Aris
Right. Um, but not everybody is, is used to, or can expect to understand how their body's going to react in that moment. So I think pulling your training aside and saying, Hey, we have to be strong right now, but it's okay on the backend and we can do it together. And, and telling her like that you were there, you, Hey, we can do this together and you're not alone.
00:34:29
Aris
I know what you're going through. um Bear with me so that we can get through this for the family and then we can fall apart. Right. So I think that can translate to anybody, but it's all in how you address it.
00:34:42
Aris
I think there's ones that can be compassionate as as you had explained, but there's also ones that don't have that. They cannot be compassionate.
00:34:49
Both Sides of the Badge
Mm-hmm.
00:34:50
Aris
And that's the hard part that prevents people from coming forward when they're having issues, you know, and, I think that's the difference between a, you know, being a ah ah truly good leader um when it comes to to being supportive of your subordinates and whatnot, right?
00:35:08
Aris
And, you know, versus just being the person that dictates and and doesn't give them the opportunity to kind of grow from situations that can be as um trump traumatic as what you had explained, you know?
00:35:24
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. Yeah. No, if any, if anything gets taken away from just this part of the conversation, taking care of your mental health, you, when you're younger, you don't, I'll be fine.
00:35:34
Both Sides of the Badge
Right. I'll be all right. But years later is when you're going to actually pay for it and realize it.
00:35:42
Both Sides of the Badge
Nobody's going to listen to us now because they're 20, 19, 20, 21, but hopefully we'll but hopefully um with the like you said the the generations the generations you come from um you know they're realizing how important the mental health is uh so hopefully you know just this talk just start early deal with them deal with them right off the bat so that a way they don't affect you 20 years down the road
00:36:00
Aris
yeah
00:36:05
Aris
Yeah. And, you know, I think that's something, you know, from our generation to, you know, our kids, that's something I stress to my kids. I have young, younger kids, you know, I got started later in life, but i I'm, I'm, I'm always trying to explain to my oldest, like, Hey, it's okay to have big feelings and big emotions.
00:36:24
Aris
Like talk about it, tell me what's going on, you know, don't hold it in, but also making sure that I'm like,
00:36:25
Both Sides of the Badge
Mm-hmm.
00:36:31
Aris
that I am explaining this is appropriate behavior that is not appropriate behavior, right. But giving them an outlet, I think that's what people need to try to do is, is express that it's okay, you know, moving forward, especially in things that can be as, uh, traumatic as some of the things that we experience, whether you're, you're military law enforcement, first responders, firefighters, you know, anyone from that, um,
00:36:58
Aris
you know we ah We experience such traumatic things sometimes, and we may not even be expecting it to be as such. We can't plan how it's going to affect us, but we need to take care of ourselves in the long run too, right?
00:37:11
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah, well, I mean, like we were talking even before, you know, we got this show started, that secondhand trauma, you know, I'm currently working ah in a prosecutor's office, you know, i'm ah I'm a cop working with a bunch of attorneys.
00:37:25
Both Sides of the Badge
And
Working in the Prosecutor's Office
00:37:26
Both Sides of the Badge
I've come to realize that they burn themselves out kind of quick because i mean, I, my, it's, it's my guess. Uh, I don't think I've honestly asked anybody this particular question, but you know, the most reasonable answer, and I tend to go with what's reasonable is they weren't expecting to have to see the details, um, and, or the pictures, or even sit down with, with the victims that have been affected of crimes. You know, I, I,
00:37:55
Both Sides of the Badge
that when I first started in the prosecutor's office as an investigator, I was working with with one prosecutor. And one day I went into his office because we were working a case together. and And he's just like, how do you how do this every day?
00:38:07
Aris
Thank
00:38:08
Both Sides of the Badge
And you know I had to ask him, what are you talking about? like What do you mean? and he kind of said, just this and he he pulled up one of the cases I don't remember what it was or anything like that but it was a pretty serious one I think it was you know a child sex assault that was pretty brutal um and he had been doing a lot of them when I kind of paid a little more attention and I'm like it boiled down to have it written down in my office but it more or less you know
00:38:17
Aris
Thank you.
00:38:36
Both Sides of the Badge
You, people need a hero in the moment that they can't be their own hero. And that's why we do what we do. You know? um
00:38:49
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. I guess I kind of lost my train of thought on that one because I got stuck in that, that, that memory.
00:38:54
Aris
no I think it comes back.
00:38:55
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
00:38:57
Aris
i think it kind of comes back to the topic of compartmentalization, right? Being able to put things aside in the moment to accomplish a task or a goal.
00:39:01
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
00:39:07
Aris
And then if you have the ability to on the back end to revisit and you know, address how that situation may have affected you. But when you think of it in the context of what you do every day and what the prosecutors do every day, they're seeing the same stuff over and over and over. And each case, it's not one and you have a break. It's one after another or even simultaneous. And it's constant and constant and constant. So when do you get ah moment to actually deal with that and, you know, try to address how it's made you feel or how it's affecting you in the long run, right?
00:39:45
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. It's funny. I was telling that and I kind of lost my train of thought. I'm going to ask you this do do you you when you start remembering of any kind of incident or moment you've been in and it it kind of affects you in a way, like that one affected me realizing that whole secondhand trauma and just really how unprepared some people can be. i was really just did that moment. Like I was back in the office talking to him and I just completely forgot where it's going. Does that happen to you sometimes?
00:40:17
Aris
All the time. I just blame it on age though.
00:40:21
Both Sides of the Badge
I think a lot of us do, but I mean,
00:40:21
Aris
I just blame it on age. But no, I think that there are certain key moments in my life um that I remember and it sticks with me. For example,
Deployment Experiences and Family Impact
00:40:32
Aris
like When I was explaining when I decided to choose going military police, I remember sitting at the kitchen table with the re recruiter and mom and looking out across the table into the living room, kind of staring outside the window when I said, i don't know.
00:40:47
Aris
i want to be like my brother. want to do what my brother is doing. How does that translate? I remember being in that moment. You know, there there are other moments from, you know, being deployed and, and you know, things from when I was contracting overseas that I had seen, and I can go back into that moment.
00:41:04
Aris
I think the one, parts that I struggle with is remembering everything. You know, i've I've had conversations with people where they were with me at something and they're like, yeah, we did this and that and this.
00:41:12
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.
00:41:19
Aris
Do you remember? And I'm like, nope. No, I don't. I don't remember any of it. And I feel bad, but
00:41:25
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
00:41:25
Aris
There was a point in my life, I don't know, within the last 10 years or so where I was like, I really want to focus. Where was I? What was I doing? Why can't I remember? You know? And I think that goes into the compartmentalization thing too, where you just kind of you file it back, you shut it down and you don't bring it forward until you have a moment in your life where it comes back up again.
00:41:35
Both Sides of the Badge
and
00:41:45
Aris
Right. Then you only see snippets. Sometimes it's just snippets.
00:41:49
Both Sides of the Badge
right Well, and and I've even been told that it is a way for, you know, just you and your brain to be able to manage things.
00:41:50
Aris
So
00:41:59
Both Sides of the Badge
You know, by forgetting things, you might feel bad, but it means you're not dwelling on them. So in a roundabout way, it's a good thing.
00:42:11
Aris
It's the way for your body to kind of heal and deal with the trauma is to just shut it out and forget it.
00:42:12
Both Sides of the Badge
It took me.
00:42:15
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
00:42:16
Aris
God forbid those floodgates ever open. I don't know what would do.
00:42:20
Both Sides of the Badge
It goes back to that bucket where things just open. you know i mean um How many times have you just been watching a movie and suddenly you're back in a moment that was stressful, that you hadn't thought about in years?
00:42:35
Aris
Mm-hmm.
00:42:36
Both Sides of the Badge
you know And it makes you break down almost. There's been plenty of times where I'm watching movies and there's some sort of critical incident and it shoots me back to you know seeing a six-year-old being pulled out on a stretcher yeah just these, just in general, like us talking, I'm losing my train of thought because I get back in that moment.
00:42:58
Both Sides of the Badge
So, well, that's kind of a deep part of a of the conversation, which I'm sure we'll touch on more um as we go. But ah how did your deployments go? um You were over there a couple of times. I know i we used to talk on Skype, you know, when Skype was big.
00:43:12
Both Sides of the Badge
um I know you've told me a few stories that really kind of you know, sucked for you. So, you know, let's talk about some of that. But what was some of the good things too that came from it? The camaraderie, the the just, you know, being in a different part of the world, you know, things you learn, things that were good, things that were bad.
00:43:32
Aris
Yeah, I, one of the big things for me, I think that came out of my deployments is I'm appreciative of the life I have and the things that I have, um you know, and what country I live in.
00:43:50
Aris
yeah You know, I think because I've seen the hardships that people go through, I've seen, you know, the the spoils that war brings in these countries, and maybe they weren't all that great, you know, prior to but...
00:44:05
Aris
prior to the war but seeing how some of these children were growing up and what they were dealing with, or even the families and stuff like that made me really appreciative of, of where I came from.
00:44:17
Aris
think that's one of the big takeaways for me. Um, but yeah, my, so my first deployment was rough. It was rough. Um, we were stationed in Baghdad and that's the, that's the capital in Iraq. And, um,
00:44:35
Aris
it wasn't great and so we were on this little fob most people know it ah the reference would be camp rustamaya or camp cuervo named after somebody from the military but it was off of main supply route they call them msrs and we were constantly getting mortared Every day.
00:45:03
Aris
It was all the time. and You know, people will talk about the sirens and stuff that go off for the warnings and whatnot. And you're supposed to get up and throw all your gear on and run out to a bunker for safety. And it became such a constant that we would all lay in bed.
00:45:19
Aris
We shared rooms. There was like four of us in a room um in the buildings that we had. And I remember we would all just lay there in the middle of the night and you could hear the mortars landing around and you would wait until they got really close. You'd be oh, it's time for me to get up now.
00:45:33
Aris
Or you would wait for it to end. Like, oh, that wasn't that close. I'm not getting up. You just got so used to it, right, that you knew when you needed to get up and when you could just lay there. um
00:45:41
Both Sides of the Badge
I remember talking to you one time when something like that happened, we're talking and you just froze like for a second. Cause we were on Skype and you're like, Oh, we're getting mortared. I'm like, wasn't that a big deal? And you're like, no, no, it sounds far away. don't know. Like another 15, 20 minutes later, we were still talking. Cause you know, you're talking to the kids, you've got, you know, nieces and nephews and stuff. And and they were really young then. And before you knew it, you just slammed the computer down and you were gone.
00:46:09
Aris
Yeah.
00:46:09
Both Sides of the Badge
I think he called back, it was a few hours later, and you're like, no, we're good, but I did end having to hurry up and get out and blah, blah, blah.
00:46:09
Aris
Yeah.
00:46:16
Both Sides of the Badge
that That was freaky just on this end.
00:46:17
Aris
Yeah.
00:46:18
Both Sides of the Badge
you know That's one thing that I think that this war brought to light for everybody is is
00:46:19
Aris
yeah
00:46:26
Both Sides of the Badge
There was more communication that was available than in really anything in the past. We didn't have Skype you know back even in the 90s. You weren't able to really talk to your family and see that and and do all that.
00:46:36
Aris
Thank you.
00:46:37
Both Sides of the Badge
So that was enlightening for me, that's for sure.
00:46:40
Aris
Yeah, yeah. You know, there's also a lot of things from my first deployment I don't remember. But I remember before I left, mom and dad took me to the airport in Denver.
00:46:51
Aris
And I remember mom was trying her hardest not to show emotions or concern or anything like that, right? Mom always tried to be super strong. And so did dad, right? They were just trying to be put together for me so that I could be strong.
00:47:09
Aris
And part of me looks back at that now and I'm thankful for it, but I'm also like, it would have been okay for you to show emotion. Right.
00:47:18
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
00:47:19
Aris
So I know that that's, I know now hindsight, uh, that, that first deployment for mom was really hard, uh, on her, but she told me before I left, there was, there was a a few things she said, the two things that stick out for me is one, don't be a hero.
00:47:36
Aris
um Because it it was a lot of, look, I'm um getting emotional and now just thinking about it. um
00:47:41
Both Sides of the Badge
know
00:47:42
Aris
i She said, don't be a hero. And what she was meaning by that was, you know, there were were service members that were getting kidnapped or dying or...
00:47:53
Aris
you know, different things that were happening. And she was like, if if if it comes between, you know, your life and getting taken, make the right choice. um I knew what she meant, but we're not going to, I don't want to go into that.
00:48:06
Aris
But the other one was, don't be afraid to tell me anything that is going on or that may be hard for you to process. I took that to heart. That was mom being open. Like, give me give me your stress.
00:48:22
Aris
Give me, i am an outlet for you. um i started a journal while I was there. I wish I still had it. I have no idea where it is. I gave it to mom um when I got back from that deployment and I haven't seen it since.
00:48:38
Aris
It probably has a lot of things in there that I don't remember. um But I did start a journal. Because there was a point in time where I would tell mom things. And then i learned later on that she would just break down.
00:48:52
Aris
um Because there would be weeks that I didn't get to call home and they had no idea what was going on with me.
00:48:57
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:48:59
Aris
um And then, you know, anytime anybody ah passed away, you know, and in what we were doing, they would go into what they call combo blackout. So they shut down all the internets, nobody could use their phones, nobody could do anything until they were able to call that service member's family and notify them of the death.
00:49:18
Aris
So sometimes you know people in the States would hear about it on the TV, but they couldn't reach us to find out if we were okay. Because then you hear you know who passed away, you hear service members getting injured, and even if it was significant and they had to get medevaced out, you know they would still prevent you from being able to communicate with anybody.
00:49:41
Aris
And so that was really hard. um But mom was always, she told me, and tell me, tell me, don't be afraid to hold anything back. i think After the the first few months, um because of all the things that I had experienced, I think I stopped being as open about it.
00:49:59
Aris
um And so it wasn't until after my deployment and she read my journal that she got to see and hear a little bit more. But you know there were there were some incidents that happened during my first deployment. um to To sum it up, we lost a couple of people, which was really hard.
00:50:16
Aris
That was the first kind of traumatic death of what felt like you know a brother dying and having to go through that, which is extremely traumatic.
00:50:26
Both Sides of the Badge
Thank you.
00:50:29
Aris
i remember While they brought my one of my leaders out in a stretcher to put them on a helicopter to get them out after they had been killed.
00:50:41
Aris
And I just remember sitting there on the flight line and I can still feel and hear the helicopter blades and feel the wind and the dirt coming in and hitting my face.
00:50:51
Aris
As they're bringing his body out and we're sitting there in a salute and I'm just crying. I can't, I couldn't control it. I was trying to keep myself together, but I just remember crying, you know, there's, there's moments like that.
00:51:03
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
00:51:05
Aris
But after, after we started losing people, i I stopped telling mom some of those details because it was just, if it was traumatic for me, I can only imagine, you know?
00:51:15
Aris
Um, and, uh, Yeah, there was a point in my deployment, though, I was able to get a cell phone. So, you know, it was like a it was a freaking Nokia with the T9 texting capabilities, right?
00:51:29
Aris
So once I had gotten my
00:51:29
Both Sides of the Badge
Really got to work hard for that s right?
00:51:33
Aris
Yeah. Yeah. But I got my cell phone and I gave the phone number to mom and mom and dad. And I remember i was on a tower guard one day and we had basically tower guard is, is standing in a tower that surrounds the base and your base off defense.
00:51:51
Aris
So if anything happens or somebody tries to come over the walls, like you are the first line of defense, something had happened out in town and it hit the news Before we even knew exactly what was going on, like my unit hadn't notified and us of anything and it hit the news.
00:52:07
Aris
I'm sitting in the tower and I have my phone in my pocket and mom calls me and she's like, are you okay? was like, whoa. Yeah, I always thought mom had this weird kind of like clairvoyancy, right?
00:52:19
Aris
Like she kind of knew things were happening before they happened and...
00:52:20
Both Sides of the Badge
Now. Mm-hmm.
00:52:23
Aris
I was like, what do you mean? She's like well, I see on the news this, this, and this. And i'm like, oh, well, I don't know yet, but I am safe. was like, so with whatever may be happening, just know we may go into common blackout and I can't call you, but I'm safe.
00:52:37
Aris
And so, you know, I think that gave her a peace of mind um that she could call me once I finally was able to get a cell phone, but it was, it was a lot, you know? So not only did we have people, die in my unit.
00:52:49
Aris
A lot of people were injured, wounded, you know, and having to leave.
00:52:52
Both Sides of the Badge
Right.
00:52:53
Aris
Like it was, we had people who joined the military to be cooks and they were gunners, drivers for us, you know, people that were, it,
00:53:05
Aris
they had signed up for different jobs. People that worked in the motor pool were fixing our Humvees that were filling in in the same positions because we were, people were getting injured or dying and we didn't have the the people.
00:53:18
Aris
So we had to pull people from other places and have them fill in, you know, like it was, it was straight chaos and we didn't have the capabilities of protection that developed over the years.
00:53:19
Both Sides of the Badge
that
00:53:28
Aris
Right. Like they stopped, they started out in soft skins, which is basically like, you know uh driving in a jeep that has soft doors or soft tops like that's how it was in the beginning of the war and then they finally started getting up armored vehicles and then we were finding other ways to try to protect us because of the you know the the um ieds and stuff that they would use that would just blow through the doors i mean take out anything in its path and i remember thinking this was one of my sayings i was like
00:53:59
Aris
I would put anything on this car, on this vehicle to to give us a little bit more protection. If it was ah macaroni noodles and glitter, I would do it.
00:54:10
Aris
like
00:54:11
Both Sides of the Badge
If that would help. Yeah. i mean, you got to do what you got to do sometimes.
00:54:13
Aris
Yeah.
00:54:13
Both Sides of the Badge
Right.
00:54:14
Aris
Yeah. Yeah. But I think the one thing that you and I can probably find a commonality in, which was a common thought, being deployed in combat is today, every day i woke up and this is what I think changed me as a person.
00:54:33
Aris
um after, you know, my first deployment, I became a very angry, I was always angry, quick to anger, mad. I didn't care about yelling at you, anything like that. Right. But i realized that it was because it came to a point where i woke up every day Wondering if today was the day is today.
00:54:50
Both Sides of the Badge
uh
00:54:51
Aris
My day is today the day that I'm going to go and my parents going to, are going to hear about it. My brother is going to be notified that I'm not going to be around anymore. That takes a toll on a person.
00:55:01
Aris
And I think that that can be translated, you know, as a connection between, you know, military and first responders in the civilian world, because you never know what you're going to encounter.
00:55:14
Aris
And fast forwarding,
Near-Fatal Encounter on Duty
00:55:15
Aris
you know, down the years, it brings me to ah point where something happened to you. And I was like, I was not happy about it. That day you probably had no idea.
00:55:25
Aris
You know what I'm talking about. was like,
00:55:26
Both Sides of the Badge
I know what you're talking about. Yeah, I definitely do. We can we can dig into that if you want to.
00:55:29
Aris
Yeah. they Yeah. Like that was a day you probably woke up, went on patrol and were thinking today might be my day, but maybe it won't be.
00:55:39
Aris
And it happened to be a day where you got lucky.
00:55:41
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
00:55:42
Aris
Okay.
00:55:43
Both Sides of the Badge
I mean, to be to be honest, I mean, like maybe I started young. i never really thought it would happen to me, but I knew it could. i didn't... I mean, i guess in the back of your mind, you think about that on every call and and maybe that's different is is one of the kind of differences you're there, you know, overseas, you know, in the middle of war for a year with or plus, you know, some I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, you know, some people are there few months to couple of years before they get to come home.
00:55:59
Aris
yep
00:56:19
Both Sides of the Badge
And that is hard. It's way more stressful because I don't have, you know, when I'm out on patrol, I don't have bombs going off around me. Well, at least from where I worked, you know, especially with the way law enforcement's been these days, you look at, you know, all these ah protests and everything, especially I don't, not going to get political by any means, but with everything that's happening with ice and all that stuff, that's different.
00:56:38
Both Sides of the Badge
But I guess I just kind of just got used to it. I was always in that, that, red category basically you know because you know it's not hard to figure out who the cops are and once the bad guys have met you a couple of times they know who you are um so the one thing that's weird that you do bring up about that that incident we will dig into that here in just a second but i was a sports player you know baseball so skiing uh cross country did cheerleading for a little bit everybody laughs at me
00:56:38
Aris
mm-hmm
00:56:48
Aris
and
00:57:09
Aris
Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:57:14
Aris
Cheerleading. Yep.
00:57:15
Both Sides of the Badge
everybody laughs at me, but that's a pretty good way to get to hang out with some of the hottest girls in school, honestly. So laugh all you want. Right. But, um, I was, I, I, I always visualized stuff, you know, like, and I'm sure anybody that's played sports can, can relate. Like you visualize, like what's going to happen if the balls hit to me or, you know, think of it from a football side, what's going to happen if, you know, this or that you visualize it, what am I going to do?
00:57:43
Both Sides of the Badge
And, uh,
00:57:43
Aris
visualizing is a form of training to help you prepare right so
00:57:46
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, some people are better at it than others. um Some people understand it and some people don't. Some people think it's weird. I don't know. I've just always visualized, like put myself in a scenario.
00:57:58
Both Sides of the Badge
How am I going to react? The big thing that comes with that, that's good is, is like you said, from a training standpoint is you may never be in that spot or never have been in that spot.
00:58:11
Both Sides of the Badge
But at least you've put your brain there for a moment so that when it does, because in law enforcement and and military, even playing sports, it's going to happen.
00:58:17
Aris
Mm-hmm.
00:58:20
Both Sides of the Badge
It's not a matter of if. It's just a matter of when, right? So I do remember on that day, I was working a um <unk> a swing shift. ah We were doing 10s at the time.
00:58:32
Both Sides of the Badge
So it would have been 5 p.m. to 3 a.m. And I remember visualizing on the way into work because I had 30-minute drive. What am I gonna do if I get shot?
00:58:43
Both Sides of the Badge
And yeah, played it through my head.
00:58:46
Both Sides of the Badge
I don't remember the exact scenario, but I know I did that. um And then yeah, that night I was cruising around. It was me, because like I ca said, I worked in a small agency on western in Western Colorado.
00:58:46
Aris
Thank
00:59:00
Both Sides of the Badge
And it was me and and one other guy working patrol. And we actually had a detective who was out on some DUI enforcement overtime. um And let's see, I'd been on duty for three hours and 21 minutes before I showed up on scene.
00:59:19
Both Sides of the Badge
Going backwards just a little bit, I remember I was three blocks away from the call that came out when dispatch aired a domestic. And, you know, was Cops can relate.
00:59:34
Both Sides of the Badge
Most domestics come in as there's no alcohol, there's no weapons, there's no anything. It's just somebody beat somebody and you got to go handle it. They're all, you know, something you deal with on a daily basis.
00:59:45
Both Sides of the Badge
But the answers that you usually get from the person that's calling in is that there's none of that. Ultimately come to find out there was all of that. um There was drugs, there was alcohol.
00:59:55
Aris
um
00:59:56
Both Sides of the Badge
And by the time that call was said and done, i had been shot and my partner had shot. ah the guy that shot me five times. And it happens quick.
01:00:07
Both Sides of the Badge
um You know, I went from, so I've been married twice, you know this. We did it in my my first marriage. We got, we just went to the courthouse.
01:00:19
Both Sides of the Badge
And then few years later, we had like a kind of a ceremony, which I think you were deployed on for that one.
01:00:27
Aris
no i was i was
01:00:28
Both Sides of the Badge
can't remember.
01:00:28
Aris
no it was years later when you guys like did a reval val val renewal tiing yeah
01:00:31
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah, yeah. But I was actually on the phone with a friend when that call came in, kind of planning that. So I got shot in october on October 22nd of 2010. So I'd been a cop for five years. because I started and in January 2nd of 2005 at 11 a.m.
01:00:52
Both Sides of the Badge
was my first shift. um But I was on the phone planning that and because we were going to do it in January when our anniversary was, right?
01:01:00
Aris
Thank
01:01:02
Both Sides of the Badge
and then that call came in, so I got off of it, went there, and within 30 seconds of being on scene, I'm shot. you know Bad guy's shot. And yeah, the whole world just kind of changed.
01:01:15
Both Sides of the Badge
you know It came in as, like I said, a domestic. um Me and my partner show up on scene, and one of the things you do, it especially at night, you you stand outside and listen. You don't want to just walk into something.
01:01:28
Both Sides of the Badge
So you stand out and listen to see, well, one, what kind of evidence are you going to get? You know, I'm now a witness in this case. So if I hear somebody beating somebody, well, that's great evidence, especially as to why I might've had to kick the door in, been in those scenarios, you know?
01:01:45
Both Sides of the Badge
um But yeah, we waited for, i don't know, a little bit of time, checked windows on the, by the front door and and the side.
01:01:52
Aris
Thank
01:01:53
Both Sides of the Badge
And finally we knocked and, and our victim answered along with um her, think was granddaughter. And one of the things that they train us in, well, in the academy and even in FTO, that if you if you can, get eyes on the other party quick because you don't know what's going on back there, right?
01:02:15
Both Sides of the Badge
But at the same time, it's it's to keep them separate so that we can get one side of the story and then one side of the story and then you know come together and figure out basically what happened.
01:02:20
Aris
Thank you.
01:02:27
Both Sides of the Badge
So at this time, You know, I knocked, ah we knocked on the door and and we talk and we're real quick. We introduced ourselves and, and I asked the victim, I'm like, all cool. Where's he?
01:02:39
Both Sides of the Badge
and she tells me he's in the back. I'm like, cool. What's his name? And she tells me his name. Awesome. I'm going to go talk to him. You hang tight here and talk with my partner.
01:02:46
Aris
Thank you.
01:02:47
Both Sides of the Badge
And I went through a door and announced who I was. And he came out with a gun and i drew down on him real quick.
01:02:57
Both Sides of the Badge
Never planned on being in that scenario. I drew down on him as he's walking. Like we're within 15, 20 feet. So we'll back up and and I guess build that room a little bit.
01:03:09
Both Sides of the Badge
He's in a, like an auto shop where it's got, it's a business. Like the front is like the entry where you, you know, be greeted by the person to figure out what kind of work you're going to And in the back is a garage.
01:03:20
Aris
Thank you.
01:03:22
Both Sides of the Badge
And he had done like a makeshift, room there, were some sheets hanging up and lights and a bed and you know stuff like that. And so I went through that beginning area, you know that little greeting area through to the back end of the into the shop.
01:03:39
Both Sides of the Badge
And there's a wall of sheets or blankets or something hanging up on my on my left side. And he comes out on the backside with a gun. And I knew it was a gun because he had it um held by the by the handle, but it had a holster on it.
01:03:52
Aris
Thank
01:03:55
Both Sides of the Badge
And he stripped that holster off of it. Another way I knew it was a gun, because people always ask, like, how did you know it was a gun? Well, he was holding it like a gun. And then I saw the holster come off because that adrenaline hadn't hit yet. Right.
01:04:06
Both Sides of the Badge
And he points it up up to the ceiling. Now, the one thing that everybody's asked me about being involved in a critical incident like that is, well, what were you thinking? What happened?
01:04:18
Both Sides of the Badge
I mean, ultimately, i I could have shot him. he did I told him, drop the gun. I wasn't polite about it, which you know came up in court.
01:04:26
Aris
Thank you.
01:04:29
Both Sides of the Badge
And the the the thing that I think was a drawback is... Every, and within seconds, every firearms training scenario I had ever been in training wise, or even in my own brain, went through my brain in that moment. And that's what made me kind of hesitate.
01:04:53
Both Sides of the Badge
Because I'm like, he's pointing it at the sky, you know, at the ceiling. He hadn't pointed it at me yet. Shoot, can I shoot this guy? you know, you just got play all those scenarios through your head. So I think maybe a little too much training cause I gave it too much thought.
01:05:08
Both Sides of the Badge
Um, and then ultimately he, uh, he dropped the weapon. They didn't drop it, but he lowered it and fired from a three 57 revolver and hit me in the chest within 15, 20 feet.
01:05:20
Both Sides of the Badge
My partner by that time I'd come in and he was on my right side. And, uh, he I think he told him to drop the gun, but at the same time, he was pulling the trigger. He shot the guy. he The guy went and lifted up a garage door to get out.
01:05:34
Both Sides of the Badge
He hit the guy four times in the back and one time in the back of the head, and I think the one in the back of the head
01:05:38
Aris
Thank you.
01:05:41
Both Sides of the Badge
went through the garage as he was falling out and was slowed down. My partner had a 45. So hitting that, that little bit in the garage, slowed it down and it hit in the back of his head. But then the bullet didn't go through his skull. It went around, wrapped around and knocked him out.
01:05:57
Both Sides of the Badge
And they all, after that, a lot of it's a blur, but that was, that was pretty, pretty crazy.
01:06:05
Both Sides of the Badge
What's even kind of funny about it.
01:06:06
Both Sides of the Badge
It went blurry and, and we're calling for help and, Anger hadn't set in yet, but that adrenaline and just shrunk in everything and just got me to not think like I went over to a try to get a gate open that was locked with a chain and a padlock. And I'm trying to pull it open, like literally pry it open um so that the ambulance and the fire crews can get in there and, you know, render aid to, well, the guy that just shot me.
01:06:07
Aris
Thank you.
01:06:33
Both Sides of the Badge
um And then I was like, wait, can't do that. I'm not, yeah, that's dumb. So I went back around to the front. And by that time, the guy that was working, the detective that was working DUI overtime, he's walking through the the door and he just grabs me.
01:06:48
Both Sides of the Badge
Are you okay? I think
Instincts in Dangerous Professions
01:06:50
Both Sides of the Badge
so. Cool. Go outside, get in the ambulance right now. Thank you. and ah In my brain, I said, thank you.
01:06:58
Both Sides of the Badge
I just went okay, but I didn't know what to do. I couldn't quite figure out where I needed to be because now I'm a victim in this case also. I'm evidence. There's evidence on me. There's a freaking bullet stuck in my vest, right?
01:07:14
Both Sides of the Badge
So getting that guidance there, even as quick as it was, getting the ambulance, me and my partner in the ambulance getting checked out because now, you know, they got to separate us and do all that, you know, invest officer involved shooting stuff.
01:07:19
Aris
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. sorry. sorry. I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm I'm sorry.
01:07:25
Both Sides of the Badge
um
01:07:25
Aris
sorry. sorry.
01:07:26
Both Sides of the Badge
But while was in the back of it,
01:07:26
Aris
I'm sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. sorry.
01:07:28
Both Sides of the Badge
That ambulance, um I was still recording.
01:07:28
Aris
sorry. sorry. sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. sorry.
01:07:32
Both Sides of the Badge
We used pocket recorders back in 2010, little digital pocket recorders.
01:07:32
Aris
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. I'm I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm
01:07:37
Both Sides of the Badge
And i had said I said something about, I was just thinking about this because I was visualizing it on the way into work, you know being involved in a shooting.
01:07:39
Aris
sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry. sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm I'm sorry.
01:07:46
Both Sides of the Badge
That came up in court too, but that's a whole other other side of the story. but But yeah, that was ah was a pretty, after that, some things in my life kind of, I guess, went haywire.
01:07:58
Both Sides of the Badge
And i don't I don't even know if I called you.
01:07:59
Aris
right
01:08:01
Both Sides of the Badge
Did my wife call you?
01:08:04
Aris
oh I remember everything that went on. um I got a lot of phone calls, but I was also working on transitioning out of the military at the time. So I wasn't a i wasn't in a good place either for myself when that happened to you.
01:08:19
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
01:08:21
Aris
But you brought up a good point. um you you You said that you were visualizing it. my My question to you is, have you ever felt um like you've had kind of like a sixth sense before something happens?
01:08:37
Aris
and And what I mean was, is you were visualizing that to happen, but you didn't know that it was going to happen. What, why do you think that that thought went through your mind? And let me reference something as as to why I bring this up.
01:08:53
Aris
When, when I was on my first deployment, there were a couple of incidents that, when I was on my first deployment, there was an incident that happened too, I think, where I felt like I had this little voice in my head telling me to get down.
01:09:07
Both Sides of the Badge
Oh.
01:09:07
Aris
Like you need to sit down, you need to get down right now.
01:09:10
Aris
um And both times that that happened, one was EFP, which is ah type of IED used. And one was a VBID, which is a vehicle-borne IED had happened for both of those incidences.
01:09:25
Aris
But the my second deployment, I also had it happen. And it was... in a moment where my squad had we had gotten hit by an ID and I was charged to go and basically lock down the area until the landowners got there and something could have happened to me at that moment too, but something told me to stop. And so I, did that ever happen? Did you have that kind of feeling?
01:09:55
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. I mean, i don't remember if I had that feeling that day, but maybe, but
01:10:01
Both Sides of the Badge
There's a lot of things that I think are just kind of instinct and maybe some sort of, you know i don't know, supernatural power, your fairy godmother or something. um There's a lot of things that think you do where you just are like, I shouldn't do that.
01:10:18
Both Sides of the Badge
I'm not sure why, so i just don't. And some of it I relate it to, that Spidey sense.
01:10:25
Aris
Mm-hmm.
01:10:26
Both Sides of the Badge
We in law enforcement and even in the military, you you You live in this state of just constant awareness, hypervigilance, right?
01:10:38
Aris
Mm-hmm.
01:10:39
Both Sides of the Badge
So anything that just doesn't seem right, you kind of pay a little more attention to because that's what's going to keep you alive. I think that's just a natural instinct that we have as humans.
01:10:49
Aris
Mm-hmm.
01:10:50
Both Sides of the Badge
um And I don't think and don't think you can really understand it until you've been in that particular situation. in some sort of critical incident, you know, yeah even from like a civilian standpoint, you know, it's, it's even just like a severe car crash, you know, or something like that. So I don't know if it's like ah like a sixth sense or something. I think it's maybe, well, I don't know, but yeah, to answer the question, I guess with that's the long way around, but yeah.
01:11:21
Both Sides of the Badge
Plenty of times where I'm like, I'm not going to do that because, or even for me, the one I would always do is like a call would come in and I'd be like, Ooh, that sounds scary.
01:11:33
Both Sides of the Badge
I'd call like my wife and be like, Hey, I love you.
01:11:37
Aris
Thank you.
01:11:37
Both Sides of the Badge
Um, just love you. I'll call you when I'm done and, you know, and hang up just in case. So yeah, that's kind of weird.
01:11:48
Both Sides of the Badge
Maybe that's, uh, Maybe some other people kind of it can explain that to us or they've had it and they've got stories with it too that's kept them from doing things and then bad shit happened. So, yeah.
01:11:59
Aris
Yeah, I, always, I've always thought about that over the years for some of the things that I have, that I've been through of having those moments of just somebody screaming at me. Not gonna lie.
Transition from Military Police to Civilian Law Enforcement
01:12:10
Aris
I always thought it was grandma, grandma, grandma, grandma Duncan.
01:12:13
Both Sides of the Badge
Could be.
01:12:14
Aris
I was like, oh, grandma Duncan's watching out for me today.
01:12:14
Both Sides of the Badge
and and any Any of our grandparents.
01:12:17
Aris
Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:17
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. So yeah, no, I don't know about that, but it's definitely interesting. So, well, let's, um let's move on to like your, your military police experience.
01:12:26
Aris
yeah yeah
01:12:33
Both Sides of the Badge
What kind of things did you learn about being a cop?
01:12:38
Aris
So after, like, in between deployments, they give you a break to where you can decompress, and then they'll put you on the road, on patrol, right?
01:12:50
Aris
So at that point in time, it is completely shifting gears. So you are completely high-strung every day, wondering if you're, you know, today's your day, and now you're going into, like, a slower, it feels like a slower pace of right?
01:13:08
Aris
And it's not being ah hypervigilant all the time. Now it's like, okay, I have a call because, you know, one of my patrolmen has a card that they've pulled over and this person has drugs on them or they're intoxicated or something right um so it's it's being able to to shift mentalities i guess from the two different sets of of what i what i was in the military being combat versus being military police um and so you know i didn't work the road
01:13:43
Aris
too much, but I, when I remember when I did, it was just really hard to, to transition to, it was really hard to transition from one to the other. Um, so there was a lot of times where I just worked the road, but I didn't give anybody a speeding ticket or I didn't pull anybody over.
01:13:59
Aris
Cause I was like, this isn't even that bad. This life right now isn't even that bad.
01:14:04
Both Sides of the Badge
no
01:14:04
Aris
Like, why do I need to to give this person a ticket? Maybe they're having a bad day, but I transitioned from And this is this is kind of the career path from my from my military experience, you know, between my first deployment to my second deployment, I um worked the road.
01:14:21
Aris
i was SRT. So I was the first female to join the special response team, um which is basically like the military's equivalent to SWAT.
01:14:34
Aris
I wouldn't say we're as cool as some of the SWAT teams, right? But we did all the same the same stuff, right? We were there too. serve warrants. We were there to to do all the other stuff. You know, I did ah prisoner transports. I did all kinds of other stuff. Um, you know, a lot of, um, CQB type things, different firearms trainings, you know, you know, that's, that's what SRT was.
01:14:56
Aris
And then, um so I had a couple of call outs during SRT, um, for warrants and stuff, which were slightly scary, but didn't, didn't, um,
01:15:08
Aris
didn't have the same type of heightened awareness as, you know, combat. um And then from SRT, actually transitioned into investigations.
01:15:19
Aris
So they have a military police, it's MPI, so military police investigations, or you can go into, OCD? it oh I don't remember what the other one was, but basically it's a higher, it's a higher caliber of an agent within the army. I don't know why it's, it's eluding me right now, the terminology for it, but I was MPI.
01:15:43
Aris
So that was the one that I resonated with the most versus being on patrol because I was tasked with creating a program for for for youth, for the youth.
01:15:55
Aris
um Basically, i got handed a bunch of cases for kids who had, you know, caused mischief or anything like that.
01:16:01
Both Sides of the Badge
Thank you.
01:16:02
Aris
And I had to come up with a way to have them serve a probation type period, right? So I would have to go in investigate what had happened, why they did vandalism, why they were out after curfew, why they were, you know, whatever whatever the case may be.
01:16:19
Aris
you know, sit down with the family, sit down with the kid and then come up with a um ah plan of action for them. It's very, very different than it is, i think, in from the military life, the Truman Joe to the civilian world where where you're law enforcement and dealing with kids, right? they don't there There are points in time where they don't,
01:16:40
Aris
deal with the same types of of punishments or or due process, I guess I could say, right? So I was dealing with the youth investigating crimes of youth and then um I created a ah ah program for like community service for them.
01:16:59
Aris
And so i did that, but there are There's one point in my MPI ah career, I guess I could say, i didn't do it for very long.
01:17:11
Aris
um The reason being is because I had gotten assigned to a case on this kid who had stolen an Xbox from somebody's house.
01:17:20
Both Sides of the Badge
Thank you.
01:17:23
Aris
He was a little older, i think maybe 17 at the time, or maybe had just turned 18, but was still with his family. He had gotten arrested by the patrol. They brought him in. um So as an investigator, i had to go in there and interview him and and, you know, just find out what had happened.
01:17:39
Aris
And I had kind of gotten to to know this kid and kind of see his background. And he didn't have an easy life, though. It was on a military base. you know, some kids still have have problems.
01:17:50
Aris
Like, military isn't perfect.
01:17:51
Both Sides of the Badge
Right.
01:17:53
Aris
And so I wrote up the case. We had a plan of action. And that was that. The case kind of went forward. if He did his community service, you know, whatever, whatever. And then it was several months later, i got a call over the radio. i was with, ah I was working, you know, investigations patrol and one area. And I had a partner in another. And we both got called to a kid who had Snuck onto the military base and but broke into somebody's house. And um we were basically on ah ah a bolo, be on a lookout for this guy.
01:18:24
Both Sides of the Badge
Right.
01:18:24
Aris
So we got a call um that he was found.
01:18:27
Aris
Funny thing was, my best friend from from the Army is the one who had ah arrested him. So Jess was the one who had arrested him. And her and I hadn't interacted at that point in our careers, right?
01:18:38
Both Sides of the Badge
right
01:18:39
Aris
We weren't in the same unit. So i take him back to the station. They hand him over to us because I was like, I know this kid. We're going to take him. And I ah so i take him back to the station and I start asking him. I'm like, hey, man, we literally just talked.
01:18:55
Aris
I didn't think I was going to see you again. What's going on? He broke down crying and told me about this situation that he was in with some other they call it They're called DA cops, like DA a police, so Department of the Army police. So they're not in the military, but they're people that keep civilians that can get hired in to work on the military base as police.
01:19:17
Aris
And he basically got wrangled into this thing with this group of d these two DA police officers um because they were trying to get him to connect them to a drug ring on base. And he was a young 18-year-old, so he's on the bottom of the totem pole here.
01:19:34
Both Sides of the Badge
right
01:19:35
Aris
So what I had learned, and this kid wasn't lying. you You can just tell, right? Like you can tell when somebody's lying and you can tell when they're not. And since this wasn't my first time interacting with this kid, he told me a story.
01:19:46
Aris
He said they snuck him on base and that they wanted him to do this thing. And part of that was was where what he had had gotten in trouble for and the cops called on him for for this incident.
01:19:59
Aris
That was a moment in time where semi blew up my career. So because i i believe yep I believed what he said, I made him fill out his statement exactly the way he told me the story.
01:20:05
Both Sides of the Badge
Don't remember that.
01:20:12
Aris
I said, i need you to do, I need you to write down everything that you just told me. So he did. I handed it to my superior and they told me, they're like, he can't write this. He can't write this. He needs to change it. He needs to change his statement. I was like, that's not how this works.
01:20:28
Aris
I was like, if he says this is what happened, this is staying in the statement. And, um,
01:20:33
Both Sides of the Badge
right
01:20:35
Aris
Ultimately, i got, long story short, I got shut down. I had to go to my other chain of command and I turned in my badge and I turned in my pistol and I said, I'm done because this is crooked.
01:20:48
Aris
um I don't think anything came of it, sadly. So falling on a sword for this one incident, I had another military colleague who I had deployed with on my second deployment. Tell me you need to choose a side.
01:21:00
Aris
You need to be on the side of your brothers and sisters and not on the side of a criminal. I said, everybody is should be innocent until proven guilty. Correct.
01:21:09
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
01:21:10
Aris
I said, so if this statement isn't legit, then it would come out when it goes to court and whatever the process may be. And when he said that to me, i was i was dumbfounded. i felt betrayed.
01:21:22
Aris
I felt disappointment. It just all came crashing down. And so I turned in my badge, I turned my gun. And I said, I'm done with investigations. i'm not doing it anymore. Ultimately, it came down on me. I got a negative ah office i get a negative NCO report, and everything fell on me.
01:21:41
Aris
so But i I did the right thing. I felt like I did the right thing. And then I transitioned to a different unit, and then i i went to um and went back to Iraq. So the guy that had told me I i chose the wrong side, I needed to choose the side of my brothers, he was from my first deployment, second one.
01:21:59
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
Jurisdictional Differences
01:22:00
Aris
So that was a that was an incident um that really sticks out for me.
01:22:05
Both Sides of the Badge
Well, if there's anything that I've learned... just through life and especially in in and law enforcement, there's there's two sides to a story. There's person A side, person B side, and somewhere in the middle is mostly the truth.
01:22:21
Aris
Mm-hmm.
01:22:21
Both Sides of the Badge
um and your' In your scenario, did you talk to the other officers involved? Like, did you get their side?
01:22:32
Aris
Sadly, i couldn't because they were my superiors.
01:22:37
Aris
So i took it to,
01:22:38
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
01:22:39
Aris
yeah So I took it to like our lead, our head, our head guy. i can't even remember what the ranking system was or anything like that, but they, they were superior to me.
01:22:50
Aris
So I took it above and that's where I got shut down.
01:22:52
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. Well, following that chain of command, sometimes you can't go to your direct supervisor because there's a problem, right?
01:22:56
Aris
Yep.
01:23:01
Aris
that
01:23:02
Both Sides of the Badge
Interesting.
01:23:02
Aris
yeah
01:23:03
Both Sides of the Badge
Well, now, like, I'm going to assume because I've never been ah cop on a military base. I'm going assume that they're fairly similar, but probably really different.
01:23:18
Both Sides of the Badge
um Now I know you and I've had a lot of talks over the years and I, would and maybe I just don't remember some of them, but like what, what are the difference that you've come to understand? I mean, What kind of stuff were you dealing with on on base?
01:23:31
Both Sides of the Badge
were you
01:23:32
Aris
Thank you.
01:23:32
Both Sides of the Badge
Was it mostly like domestics and and alcohol related? um or is would you still deal with some of the regular stuff that you'd see from law enforcement media that we see in the news, like murders and yeah all that stuff?
01:23:49
Aris
you see all the same stuff on the military side as you do on the civilian side, except if it's on the military base.
01:24:01
Aris
And it depends on the situation, but when it's on the military base, it gets handled it gets handled by the military courts. If it's an incident that takes place off the military base, then that's not necessarily in our jurisdiction, you would say.
01:24:08
Both Sides of the Badge
Uh-huh.
01:24:15
Aris
So then the local law enforcement gets involved and you get prosecuted and in the in the city. But a majority of the time, it's all through military. So the military has their own judges and lawyers and everything.
01:24:30
Aris
um And so everything... that happens in the military may not translate into the civilian world. So let's say somebody got in trouble for something in the military, they get kicked out.
01:24:42
Aris
It might not be known in the civilian world. So now you have this person with a criminal history, but on the outside, nobody knows about it.
01:24:47
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
01:24:53
Both Sides of the Badge
I'm actually even in my current position, I'm trying to do some follow-up on a case. I found that out. I was looking at somebody's criminal history and I can't remember exactly what it was, but it had something to do with the U S air force or something. And I'm like, that's weird. was What is, what that? um Come to find out,
01:25:15
Both Sides of the Badge
ah he had a DUI charge and, and was guilty of DUI, but it didn't actually translate to the civilian side. Um, I had to do a lot of digging and make some phone calls and, and try to figure out what this meant.
01:25:26
Aris
Mm-hmm.
01:25:29
Both Sides of the Badge
And ultimately that's what I got. So it helped me in that particular case because the, the, the case was something to do with, um, too many DUI in the state of Colorado.
01:25:45
Both Sides of the Badge
if you've been convicted of three DUIs in your lifetime, um the fourth one's a felony. So that's why I was digging so hard. And ultimately it was a felony charge that we had to go with because then I was able to prove that he had three prior DUIs.
01:25:58
Aris
Thank you.
01:26:02
Both Sides of the Badge
um So this would have been his fourth. So it would have been it'd be a felony. and And I think a lot of people, just to kind of veer off on a side topic real quick, I think a lot of people think that that particular law might be a little excessive, you know, your fourth one being a felony kind of thing. But I mean, I don't know about you.
01:26:24
Both Sides of the Badge
I've seen how alcohol can really ruin things, especially when it comes to, you know, operating motor vehicles. I've seen way too many people and had to pry them out of cars or off the side of the road where alcohol was involved. So I've I per personally, i'm I'm good with it.
01:26:40
Both Sides of the Badge
You should only need once or twice. You should only need once, not even twice, to learn that you shouldn't drive drunk. So
Proving Capability in Male-Dominated Fields
01:26:47
Aris
i was like I was gonna say, I was like four seems pretty, that seems like a lot.
01:26:52
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah, yeah. Well, but you know, i mean, it's it's human nature. Sometimes you're going to keep touching that burner even though you know it's going to be hot.
01:27:00
Aris
True that's true yeah I can agree with that I can agree with that.
01:27:01
Both Sides of the Badge
So...
01:27:05
Both Sides of the Badge
Well, um you know sticking with your time as ah as a military police officer, what kind of things did you learn? What's helped you carry on into um where you are now?
01:27:20
Both Sides of the Badge
um But even then, you had that stop where you were doing the private contracting and got deployed a couple times. what kind of What from your time in the military took you into these next couple of roles that you have in your history, in your life?
01:27:35
Aris
So to to sum up what I have adjusted to or what I have combated or what I have learned from military to where I am today, the biggest thing that I have encountered is having to prove myself capable to do certain things.
01:28:02
Aris
um or that I am right for this role, or that I am, i have the ability to be successful just as anybody else. You know, the military, in military police, we are mixed ah between, you know, male, female.
01:28:20
Aris
There are other units in the military that are strictly male. um Some things that only women can do and and vice versa. I think it's way more open now. So I, you know, I got out in 2011,
01:28:31
Aris
We're 14 years down the road. Things have changed a significant amount.
01:28:34
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
01:28:35
Aris
Right. So I can't speak for 2011 to now, but it it was, you know, there was separation.
01:28:35
Both Sides of the Badge
oh yeah
01:28:43
Aris
And then because of the things that I did in the military. So the SRT was a big one. um And then my srt skills were. Trisha Vyas, translated into my second deployment, which included a lot of PSD so personal security ah for general then and whatnot escorting people from place to place. Trisha Vyas, And so when I got out the things that I did in the military were able to translate for me to be able to get my contracting job doing PSD as well um on the civilian side ah for government contracts so even then was.
01:29:20
Aris
i was one of a few, and when I mean few, i would say less than three ah four women who had done the the contract that I was on.
01:29:33
Aris
um I think we had a ah ah girl who was canine at the time. They don't go through the same intense training that you do for the program that I was on. And then there was one other woman, ah her and I ended up rooming together. This was my first contract in Iraq.
01:29:48
Aris
So we were literally the only two women PSD. Um, there were some things, uh, in that job that was really trying. I was in, I was the only woman in my training course and, you know, the people that I'm going through training with is anybody that was military police or infantry or, you know, guys who have done law enforcement spot. So all these high, high challenging job careers, you know, and, and I'm a chick who's trying to fit in with everybody else.
01:30:22
Aris
So it's constantly having to be able to, to to show up every day and do the same things as as the rest of the guys, right? And that translated into every contract that I've been into. And then that translated to leaving contract and working the same contract, but as an instructor.
01:30:39
Aris
So now I'm not doing the PSD portion of it.
01:30:39
Both Sides of the Badge
Mm-hmm.
01:30:42
Aris
I am teaching majority men to go do PSD overseas in in an austere environment, right? So as an instructor, you have to go through and show your um your capabilities in each topic that you teach.
01:31:02
Aris
So not only do you have to meet the requirements of of the time and service or whatever, right? You have to actually be able to perform said taskings. And then ah then you can you can teach. So majority of people coming through the contract, it's all men.
01:31:18
Aris
It's lot of men, handful of women.
01:31:19
Both Sides of the Badge
Mm-hmm.
01:31:20
Aris
um And I think that a lot of that is too, because the requirements to be able to qualify to to be put forward as a recommended person for this contractor, pretty hard to reach. um But you know now I'm the only woman at this training facility.
01:31:34
Aris
And so as I'm going through the instructor course, I have so to show my my peers who are also instructors, that I can do it.
01:31:45
Aris
Right. So I remember i have a friend, him he's he's, he's such a good friend now, um, him and his, him and him and his wife. And he was really honest with me, you know, a while down the road after I had been an instructor for a while. And he was like, you know, when you first got here, i was like, there's no way he said, there's no way, there's no way.
01:32:07
Aris
And he's like, but you have changed my mind on what women can do and what their capabilities are. And that
Career Progression and Reputation
01:32:15
Aris
seemed to be kind of the same thing that I heard throughout the progression of my career from being in the military, right? i got I got military awards for for my firearms qualifications, for my PT score, for you know different things that I was able to do. And And then getting into contracting, I can run faster than most of the guys. I can shoot the same qualifications as all of the guys. And it's not just pistols and rifles, it's machine guns, it's grenade launchers, it's all these different firearms, you know, that you use from the military. and
01:32:50
Aris
And so I earned the trust and respect from all of the instructors that I worked with over the years. And all of these guys, all the instructors are, Sarah Holtzman, Ph.D.:
01:33:00
Aris
special forces special you know ah former army rangers you know retired. Sarah Holtzman, Ph.D.: Navy SEALs like i've met some really cool dudes in my instructor gadget that I worked with heard some amazing stories and half the things that these guys did i'm like I would never want to do that right like good thing for you i'm glad you did it, but I.
01:33:10
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
01:33:21
Both Sides of the Badge
Somebody's got to do it, right?
01:33:22
Aris
Somebody's got to do it. And, um, but I earned their trust and respect for by, by being the kind of person that I am, but also being able to, to set a high standard and maintain the same standards as, as my colleagues.
01:33:38
Aris
And I think that that carried over, you know, into my current job, which, you know, there's not a lot of women in my current job and there are, but They're not as well known. And those that are well known, it's because they have stood out in their performance of what they do.
01:33:54
Aris
Right.
01:33:55
Both Sides of the Badge
yep
01:33:55
Aris
um So I think that that is the biggest thing that that I have learned. I'm now older and I'm like, I don't want to prove myself anymore. So I'm at a position now where I'm higher in management, you know, and I'm, I have the position that I have on a recommendation from somebody else.
01:34:06
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
01:34:10
Aris
So I have made that name for myself of, of being around enough people. They're like, they will vouch for me and help support me in growing myself and my career. You know, I think that that's, that's probably one of the biggest lessons that I have ah learned over, over my, my career that's gotten me to, to, to where I am now.
01:34:31
Both Sides of the Badge
Oh, that's pretty cool. And I totally resonate with the I'm older and I don't want to have to prove myself anymore because that sucks.
01:34:37
Aris
Mm-hmm.
01:34:39
Both Sides of the Badge
Weirdly, before I left the road, I was ah i was a patrol sergeant with one of the sheriff's offices and I enjoyed it. I'd been trying to you know gauge for that to to to move up the chain of command. It's hard. It's really hard in a small agency because there's just not a lot of positions, right?
01:34:58
Both Sides of the Badge
And the biggest agency I worked for, we had what 20 some sworn, just over 20 sworn. But then that last one I worked for, there was including the sheriff there's 11.
01:35:08
Aris
Mm-hmm.
01:35:10
Both Sides of the Badge
eleven So, but now I'm an investigator and just a regular investigator. So I do have to like, kind of still like answer.
01:35:21
Both Sides of the Badge
Cause there's, you always have to answer to somebody, right? Even the sheriff has people to answer to everybody that votes for him.
01:35:23
Aris
and
01:35:26
Both Sides of the Badge
Um, But at the same time, I've built my reputation and my career and in in in this area well enough that I really kind of just get left alone.
01:35:39
Both Sides of the Badge
Go do your thing. If you have a problem, reach out.
01:35:42
Both Sides of the Badge
Other words, I just get left alone. So that's nice. It is kind of nice to not have to prove, per se.
01:35:42
Aris
and here
01:35:47
Aris
Yeah.
01:35:50
Aris
Yeah.
01:35:51
Both Sides of the Badge
you know
01:35:52
Aris
Yeah. And I know men have to do the same thing, right? It's just, it's in a different capacity. So, you know, it's it's not just based on, you know, your your your gender or anything like that.
01:36:04
Aris
I think that's just the standard across the board is that people want to see that you can do. Back up what you say and who you are and back up your resume and back up the things that they've heard about you and and all the things, you know.
01:36:11
Both Sides of the Badge
Right. Right. Right.
01:36:17
Aris
So I'm not trying to make it a ah ah gender thing. I think it's it's pretty much the same across the board, you know. but It's, it's exhausting having to prove yourself. So yeah, I'm glad I'm at a point in my life where I ah don't have to do that as much anymore, you know, but you know, also being my age, I'm glad that I still can do.
01:36:30
Both Sides of the Badge
right right
01:36:36
Aris
So, um, for anybody wondering, i turned 40 this year, um a happy 40 year old.
01:36:38
Both Sides of the Badge
right
01:36:42
Aris
I'm fully embracing turning 40. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:36:45
Both Sides of the Badge
welcome to the Welcome to the group.
01:36:48
Aris
yeah yeah yeah
01:36:48
Both Sides of the Badge
We meet on Wednesday nights.
01:36:50
Aris
Right, right? oh
01:36:52
Both Sides of the Badge
ah well
01:36:52
Aris
Bingo is my excitement.
01:36:52
Both Sides of the Badge
I still think, though, that that being ah a female in male-driven world, you know law enforcement or the military or anything, is you you guys do have to prove a little bit more.
01:37:07
Both Sides of the Badge
um Because... you know As a dude that's worked with with women, sometimes I don't think that – I've worked with some that have made me more worried to work with them because I didn't think that they'd be able to actually handle, well, the shit when the shit hits the fan that I feel would put me in a spot to have to worry.
01:37:27
Aris
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
01:37:33
Both Sides of the Badge
Your brothers and sisters, right? We've talked about that. have to worry about them more than what I might need to do or do to take care of somebody else.
01:37:43
Aris
isn
01:37:43
Both Sides of the Badge
um And I don't like thinking that way because I've worked with like like you, you're, you are a strong woman who would go into battle and do just fine. You know, you'd be one of those shield maidens from, you know, Vikings.
01:37:57
Both Sides of the Badge
And I've worked with those women. There's, I know some really great ones, but at the same time, you know, you get those that just make you You're going to earn it. i got to see this because ultimately if I got to go to war, I got to go to battle.
01:38:11
Both Sides of the Badge
I need to know that you're going to keep your shit together and we're going be able to get through it. So I get it, but it is harder for women, I think.
01:38:16
Aris
Yeah. Yeah. But I also think that that's based upon their performance. So if if if if they get the benefit of the doubt in the beginning, but historically they're not they're not up to par and they've shown that they're not up to par, then that brings the concern of liability into it. And I can understand that that too.
01:38:37
Aris
So it's not just right off the bat, you're not getting a benefit of it doubt. It's, hey, I've seen how you've done this. It's kind of questionable and makes me worry slightly. So let's see if you can do it.
01:38:46
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
01:38:48
Aris
And you know, it sometimes takes people longer. Sometimes it takes people longer to kind of get into the swing of things or learn how to handle things.
01:38:52
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
01:38:54
Aris
And everybody's different and everybody's ah mental capacity to to be able to to get through things and handle things is is different, you know, but. But yeah, i I try to keep it very neutral. You know, I've always been asked, how do you do it?
01:39:09
Aris
You know, you've changed my mind in relation to this. Is it always like that? You know, why are some people different than, you know, than what I've seen, this and that, you know, and it's, I just, I'm very neutral.
01:39:21
Aris
You know, I try to stay neutral. Like some some women want to and some women don't.
01:39:22
Both Sides of the Badge
Yes.
01:39:24
Aris
There are things in my life, you know, like, yeah. yeah I remember when they opened up you know the combat MOSs to women in the military. I was already out at this point in time, but I got asked by some of my colleagues. I was and i was an instructor on the contract at this time, and you know my colleagues, like I said, are all former Special Forces Army Rangers or Navy Sealed. and Would you do it?
01:39:51
Aris
Would you go and join the combat MOS?
01:39:53
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
01:39:53
Aris
I'm like... Knowing what I know now, probably not, but I'm also older and, you know, like I was probably mid-30s during the time, you know, but maybe in my 20s would have tried.
01:40:00
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
01:40:04
Aris
But I also remember being asked about going to to school to be, to go to air assault. So in the in the and the military, you've got airborne people that jump out of hell or jump out of airplanes with parachutes and then you've got air assault, which was basically like,
01:40:20
Aris
um coming out of helicopters. Right. just And so i i thought i got offered that early on. don't remember how old I was at the time. Early, early twenty s i was like, I'm ah unlucky person sometimes. I'd probably break my leg. I said, no, I'm good.
01:40:38
Aris
I'm good. you know Thank you for the offer.
01:40:39
Both Sides of the Badge
what Yeah.
01:40:40
Aris
I'm good.
01:40:41
Both Sides of the Badge
why Why jump out of a perfectly good airplane? I mean, it's there for a reason. Let's just stay on it. I don't feel like falling out of the sky either.
01:40:47
Aris
Yeah. Yeah, you know, kudos to those that do, though, you know, it takes a lot of bravery to do stuff like that. But for me in the in the moment, you know, I'm glad I had my wits about me during that time, because I made an impact somewhere else.
01:41:00
Aris
But,
Law Enforcement Challenges and Community Engagement
01:41:01
Aris
you know, and it would have been an opportunity.
01:41:01
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
01:41:02
Aris
But, um but yeah, I was just like, nah, and then I translate that to years down the road when they opened the combat MLSs for women. And I was like, nah, I'm good, but good for those women that want to try to do it, you know, why not?
01:41:12
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
01:41:15
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. It takes all kinds to make the world go around. That's what I say.
01:41:17
Both Sides of the Badge
and And sometimes like, like, i like I said earlier, good for you. Somebody has got to do it. You know, sometimes people ask me about the things that I deal with.
01:41:17
Aris
yeah
01:41:23
Aris
ye
01:41:25
Both Sides of the Badge
Like one of the things that I didn't even really know about before taking this investigator spot was, ah well, just the amount of sex assaults period, but the internet crimes against children investigations.
01:41:39
Aris
Thank
01:41:39
Both Sides of the Badge
And that, know, That's where you literally get tips from Internet Crimes Against Children that gets submitted from, you know, ah Internet providers, Facebook and and X and, you know, all those things where people are trading child information.
01:41:58
Both Sides of the Badge
the correct term is CSAM, child sexual abuse ma material material, or CSAM, child sexual exploitative yeah material. People ask me, how do you do that?
01:42:11
Both Sides of the Badge
I'm like, somebody's got to do it. And if I can manage it, maybe I'm keeping um another person from having to investigate that and suffer through that.
01:42:15
Aris
uh
01:42:21
Both Sides of the Badge
you know So yeah, it takes all kinds to make the world go around and get things done.
01:42:24
Aris
but I know. I've always wondered how you were were able to do that. you know and you You had kids when you were younger. i mean, I feel old because my nephew's in college now, right?
01:42:35
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
01:42:37
Aris
like And so, you yeah.
01:42:39
Both Sides of the Badge
He's doing great. Yeah.
01:42:41
Aris
And and i I think about you you know talking about some of these things. you You never go into full detail, but just... You watch, you there's movies, there's TV shows, there's all these things that express it.
01:42:52
Aris
So you even though you don't give detail, there's I still have an idea of what you see every day. And i I always think to myself, like, how does my brother deal with that, especially with the fact that he has kids?
01:42:57
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
01:43:03
Aris
And now that I have kids, it's totally different perspective for me. Right. Cause I, I told you years ago, i traveled a lot. I was gone all the time. I'd be gone for three months, home for 35 days and gone again for three months.
01:43:14
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. Yeah.
01:43:17
Aris
And that was the rotation i lived. And I didn't understand why people couldn't do that, you know, leave their families and how I have kids and i hate being away from them, you know, even if they're in school or at daycare or whatever.
01:43:28
Both Sides of the Badge
yeah
01:43:31
Aris
So, you know, having to deal with some of the things that you see or, or read or, or, you know, investigate on a daily basis knowing that you have kids like I can't even imagine you know being a parent and having to go through that so I definitely just hope and wish that my children don't ever have to to go through that and I'm sure that's the same sentiment for for all parents you know but it happens still it's just about being aware and present you know
01:43:46
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
01:44:01
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. You know, and I think to maybe try to just bring this whole thing back full circle, so I wouldn't and didn't encourage my son to get into law enforcement.
01:44:16
Both Sides of the Badge
But I also didn't say don't do it or do it. you know I wanted him to be fully aware of the goods, the pros, the cons you know on of it.
01:44:27
Aris
Mm-hmm.
01:44:27
Both Sides of the Badge
When I got into it, we didn't, just like you getting into the military, we didn't have anybody that was involved in law enforcement. thought that Not that was close to us. I think we had one uncle that was a cop in California, but I never knew that until after I became a cop.
01:44:41
Both Sides of the Badge
So I didn't know what I was getting into. So when he started asking questions about, you know, his future and things that he was thinking about, I laid it out for him.
01:44:46
Aris
yeah
01:44:49
Both Sides of the Badge
Um, Missing your family on a birthday sucks. Missing Christmas sucks.
01:44:55
Both Sides of the Badge
Sleeping when everybody else is awake sucks. um You know, all of that stuff is terrible. Not being able to sleep because the last call you literally dealt with five minutes before you came home was a suicide where somebody, you know, took a shotgun to their head and literally put their brain matter all over the ceiling.
01:44:55
Aris
yeah
01:45:15
Both Sides of the Badge
um those Those things suck. But some of the good things that that come from it is is maybe you save a person's life and that feels good. You might never know it, but it feels good.
01:45:26
Aris
Mm-hmm.
01:45:29
Both Sides of the Badge
um You know, helping people out, being that that person that people can really ah rely on when they're in a moment, their worst moment of their lives, um that feels good.
01:45:40
Both Sides of the Badge
You know, being able to, I did canine forever, right? Right. One of the things I enjoyed was getting to interact with everybody. you know We do National Night Out or the Touch a Truck and being able to run around with the kids and let them play with my dog and you know just have those good positive interactions with the community rather than just kicking in doors and taking people to jail.
01:45:52
Aris
Thank
01:46:04
Both Sides of the Badge
Being able to actually also go out and put out the good stuff. um It was good. That's one of the reasons why i been thinking about doing this podcast and getting folks on here to talk about all the different sides of law enforcement is so that you get a full circle of it, like the goods and the bads.
01:46:23
Both Sides of the Badge
So people understand, because there's a lot of people that don't understand. Like, we've known each other our entire lives, right? i still have ah very poor understanding of ah the military. And I'm sure you still kind of have a poor understanding of how law enforcement works, you know, just general cop work.
01:46:40
Aris
and
01:46:41
Both Sides of the Badge
So, you know, all the hope is, is to help there, you know, and and if it teaches one person or it changes one person's mindset, cool. You know, if it keeps, you know, i want to bring on all these other members of law enforcement, like we spoke at the beginning,
01:46:56
Aris
Thank you.
01:46:59
Both Sides of the Badge
Department of Human Services, bet you nobody thought about them as being part of of law enforcement, but they are. They're there to help protect children. And they're there they're to help protect the vulnerable people of our society, even you know adults that aren't able to take care of themselves, even elders, kids.
01:47:15
Both Sides of the Badge
And it affects them. you know When you have to be the law enforcement officer that goes to a child abuse call at 3 o'clock in the morning, and then to call out the Department of Human Services
01:47:26
Aris
Thank you.
01:47:27
Both Sides of the Badge
and they have to show up on scene and remove these kids from a home that's terrible, it's bad because the kids don't know any better. They don't wanna leave their parents, but they don't know that it can be better. They don't know that they don't need to be beat or starved, or in some cases, you know locked in a closet for hours at a time.
01:47:47
Both Sides of the Badge
So it's hard, you know and then in even the the the judges, all these judges that deal with criminal cases, They get that secondhand trauma also. They sit there during trials and during all these motions hearings and preliminary hearings and all these other hearings on all kinds of other things.
01:48:05
Both Sides of the Badge
And they go through this evidence. They have to sit there and see it and witness it too. You know, it affects everybody. And just want to give a platform for people to just to share their story.
01:48:18
Both Sides of the Badge
maybe some you know Maybe just being able to share your story keeps somebody from hurting themselves or somebody else later.
01:48:26
Aris
Yeah, ah think ah I think, I think key thing is, is no matter where you come from, you know, law enforcement, military emergency response.
01:48:27
Both Sides of the Badge
so
01:48:40
Aris
Everybody made a choice to go into that career, maybe knowing what it entailed, maybe not knowing full scope until they were thrust into a situation that really brought, you know, the full picture to light.
01:48:49
Both Sides of the Badge
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:48:54
Aris
They made that choice and some people stick with it and some people don't and some people, um you know, are human. Some are good, some are bad. i mean, it is what it is.
01:49:07
Aris
ultimately people do the job because they want to better a community. They want to provide a service of a level of protection. They want to, you know, do, do the hard things that not everybody can do, you know, and, but on the back end, you strip away the uniform, you strip away the badge and they're just a person still.
01:49:31
Aris
Right. Like,
01:49:31
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. Yeah.
01:49:32
Aris
You are a police officer during the day, but at night you're a husband, you're a father, you're guide, a support, you know, you're a brother. it it It's remembering what is on the backside of that badge and nobody's perfect.
01:49:44
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah.
01:49:47
Aris
People make mistakes, but it's, it's about wanting to either be better or do better, but also, you choosing every day to continue to put your boots on and and do the same job knowing the the good and the bad that comes with it.
01:50:04
Both Sides of the Badge
Yeah. No, I think that's very fair. I mean, like you said, let's strip off the uniforms and the badges and all of the other fancy stuff. Anybody
Conclusion: Reflections and Insights
01:50:14
Both Sides of the Badge
involved in being a first responder, military, doctors, nurses,
01:50:21
Both Sides of the Badge
DHS workers, judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys, they're all human. a
01:50:26
Aris
isnt
01:50:27
Both Sides of the Badge
That's what they are underneath. We're all the same. We all have skin. We all have blood. We all come from a family, have a family, we're all human. So things things can affect us.
01:50:36
Aris
yeah Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I can agree with that.
01:50:43
Both Sides of the Badge
Well, I think that's probably a good spot to kind of, you know, put the pin in this particular episode and see how things progress from here. So Eris, I thank you for your time, sis.
01:50:57
Both Sides of the Badge
um Sitting down with me for almost two hours. Actually, it would be two hours because we kind of hung out for about 10, 15 minutes while try to figure all this stuff out since this is the first episode. So thank you for bearing with me.
01:51:08
Both Sides of the Badge
And um you know if if there's anybody else you know that might want to sit down and share their story, you know send them my way and we'll see how the ah this progresses.
01:51:21
Aris
Well, I appreciate you bringing me on brother. I love the fact that I'm here. Your first episode happy to chit chat with you. This is probably the longest conversation we've had in a hot minute, but don't get it. Don't get it wrong.
01:51:32
Aris
My brother and I, we talk on a regular basis. Usually it's FaceTiming so our, our kids can say hi to each other and we get to check in, but I, I always love being a part of your journey.
01:51:35
Both Sides of the Badge
Oh, we do. Yeah.
01:51:42
Aris
Garrett. I've, I've, I enjoy the ideas that you have to, to do something different, be better, you know, open people's eyes to different things. um, the, the different career choices that you have made, you know, I've always been your number one fan and and just love you to pieces.
01:51:59
Aris
So I appreciate you including me in your, in, in this journey.
01:52:01
Both Sides of the Badge
I love you too, sister.
01:52:04
Aris
Oh,
01:52:05
Both Sides of the Badge
Well, again, thank you and I love you too. So, all right, well, we'll sign off on this one and yeah, love you, sis.
01:52:09
Aris
all right.
01:52:13
Aris
Love you too, brother.