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Abigail Grimes and Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451
100 Plays3 months ago
Mark and Joe are joined by writer and poet Abigail Grimes to discuss the classic Ray Bradbury novel Fahrenheit 451.
Fahrenheit 451, as perhaps you know, is a warning about the dangers of totalitarian thinking and censorship.
"One of the criticisms about the book is the writing is so beautiful that it's hard to take it seriously," Abigail tells us. The gorgeous prose helps the reader get past the worst parts of horror in the book, she says.
Abigail makes a great case for why you should read Fahrenheit 451, if you haven't already. It's a fun conversation about the 1950s, how Bradbury wrote the book, and about the writer himself. We hope you'll listen in!
For more information, check out the show notes for this episode.
Re-Creative is produced by Donovan Street Press Inc. in association with MonkeyJoy Press.
Contact us at [email protected]
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Transcript
Creating Podcast Themes with AI and Korg M1
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello, Mark. What the hell was that? I feel like I should be talking it like this. What the hell was that? What's all this AI doing? Okay, so those who don't know normally we have a a slightly classier piano entry theme, but i I found this one and it was when I was first preparing this whole podcast and I was experimenting with ah various versions of the theme,
00:00:36
Speaker
And the Seinfeld theme was actually done on the very same keyboard that I had, which is a Korg M1. And that's the base patch for the Seinfeld theme. So I thought, well, I'll do a version with that. Yeah. So you didn't like run it through some sort of Seinfeldizer AI.
00:00:54
Speaker
No, no, just, ah yeah, it was the old Korg M1 bass patch there. That is so cool.
Synthesized Sounds and Their Musical Influence
00:01:00
Speaker
I heard on the on the CBC, this is really off-bass, but I heard on the CBC this week about how um the sounds of the loon, you know, the loon's have those two calls, that the the glissando sort of one like the ooh.
00:01:14
Speaker
one ah That one was shipped in synthesizers in the 80s. It is buried in so many different songs. it's it's It was amazing. They just played a couple clips from a handful of them, but so many disco songs and so many dance music songs. Oh, wow. I want to hear that now. I know. it's You'll hear it probably because I'm like, I'm definitely going to be listening for it now. that I know that it's it. it was and it So it shipped with this synthesizer, so it's just lots of people playing it. Good. There are things you learn in this podcast. Okay. So people can learn a bit more now.
Exploring Poetry: Haiku and William Blake
00:01:48
Speaker
I'm always trying to find out more about you, Joe, because we've been friends for 20 years, but there's things I don't know. Do you have a favorite form of poetry?
00:01:58
Speaker
Ah, favorite form of poetry. I know. It's a really obscure question. It just popped into my head literally seconds ago. The thing about poetry is um I've never been able to write it because I don't have any sense of ah poetry. I do admire it. i yeah There's a few stances from ah William Blake that I Yeah, all the time that I that I love, you know joy and woe or woven fine like that one. Yeah, I thought it was a tiger tiger Burning bright. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. I mean, so there's a few little but favorite uh, you know And haiku is not my favorite but I but I will say that I saw something funny the other day about uh, it was uh, somebody being trapped in a haiku
00:02:46
Speaker
and And I wish I could quote it and maybe I'll find it. Oh, it's interesting you say that because haiku used to be my favorite. In fact, it probably still is. Well, it probably still is, but for a while there, I was really into it. I actually had a couple of poems published in Japan. The Minichi Daily News used to have a weekly contest where you could send in your English haiku and they would publish the best of them. And I had a couple published So yeah, i was I used to love Haiku and I still kind of i kill i still kind of dig it. I'm hoping our guest has a favorite form of poetry.
Abigail Grimes' Journey into Poetry
00:03:22
Speaker
Abigail Grimes, welcome to our podcast, Recreative. Thank you, thank you. That's a very interesting question and and i'm lately I've been more known for writing poetry than anything else. so
00:03:35
Speaker
So then what kind of poetry are you writing? Well, it's interesting. I just kind of like fell backwards into writing poetry. i was I was kind of just writing these kind of letters to no one, right? And, you know, oh, here's a flower in my garden. And I would write this short form prose thing. And somebody said to me, oh, that was ah that was a beautiful poem. And I was like, that's a poem? What are you talking about?
00:04:00
Speaker
and Okay. And so I just kind of immersed myself in in that kind of of writing. And and i was I say to to these other poets who this this concept that I have in my head of what a poem is supposed to be and who poets are and and how they're to perform.
00:04:21
Speaker
just you know continually gets knocked out of the water blown out of the water exploded out of the water because you know clearly you know all through high school i had these very immature notions about these rhyming schemes and things like that yeah yeah then putting it away for a very long time not realizing that i am in fact writing poetry until somebody else points it out and then you know me saying to these people Oh, that, okay, that's a poem. Okay, I guess I i write poetry now. yeah Okay, lets let's take this opportunity to then explain what else you
Grimes' Multi-Genre Writing Exploration
00:04:57
Speaker
do. So yeah, so tell us like about your your writing career and your writing end.
00:05:02
Speaker
So I am a multi-genre writer because now I can add poetry in there. I've written creative non-fiction. I write a lot about um women and their relationships with their with their mothers, their families. I write just all manner of like messy stuff too. but And and but it good Yeah, mess messy is very good. There's so much there's so much to do in messy. Yeah, you you can deal with like the the work that I'm I'm the novel that I'm working on right now is about, you know, these people who are just so incredibly self destructive and destructive to one another and all of these absurd justifications that they have for their behavior.
00:05:50
Speaker
and you know how people kind of manage that. Like this person is feeling super guilty but continues doing what they're doing. And this person has justified the heck out of what they're doing and they just keep doing what they're doing. And everyone's on a path to destruction. So it's quite interesting.
00:06:07
Speaker
There's so many things actually I want to ask you in so many different directions. and But first I should explain that, so we met, I held a with ah my friend Pat Flewelling and a few other friends a book market, which we called book market actually.
00:06:23
Speaker
in Whitby a few years ago. and and You were one of the folks that that signed up and came and ah and and sold your books. and I know that you're planning on doing something similar. and We'll talk about that later. What were you selling at that
The Pen Name Casey Thompson for Erotica
00:06:35
Speaker
time? What what books had you did you bring to that market? That market, I write under a different name um sometimes.
00:06:44
Speaker
and ah so When I'm writing more salacious material, when I'm writing erotica, okay I write under the name Casey Thompson. So Casey had her books there, right? Separate the personalities, right? So Casey had her stuff there. I wasn't there yet. I it. I think I was confused too at the time because that was the name that you had brought. And then I'm like, wait a minute, what? Yeah. And I signed all of my paperwork, Abigail Grimes.
00:07:14
Speaker
Yeah, all this Casey Thompson stuff. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, Casey writes some some pretty spicy stuff. And I think at the time I had a workbook, it's called 69 prompts for writers of erotica.
00:07:30
Speaker
Nice. Yeah, very subtle, right? I do believe that you're our first writer of Veronica on this podcast, so yeah. Yay! Groundbreaking. But yeah, but you write all sorts of things. Yeah, yeah. So now, I mean, I was just at a market yesterday and Casey was there and Abigail was there. And so Casey just recently came out with a short story collection called Casey's Shorts on the cover.
00:07:57
Speaker
some folks wearing short pants. And oh and on the Avigail Grimes side, I have my my poetry and prose collection for The Quiet and um the thriller, ah The Violence of Fire. Yeah, and I saw both of those up on Amazon and well reviewed. Casey, so the the name Casey, where did that come from? My middle name is Cassandra.
00:08:21
Speaker
ah kind of that That's the name and, you know, telling secrets out of school here. ah That's the name that you use at the bar when you don't want somebody to know your actual name. Oh, okay. These are many secrets you tell us here. I know, right? well It's a magic microphone. It makes you tell it off only the truth. I never required that trick.
00:08:48
Speaker
Yeah. And the thriller, is it to got any...
Speculative Fiction in a Dystopian Society
00:08:52
Speaker
Like what what's how what's the setting for the thriller that you've written? It takes place in Toronto. I work in a courthouse in my real life quotation marks, my nine to five, let me put it that way. So my nine to five takes place in a courthouse and the the people that are in this book are lawyers and paralegals and the paralegal that is working with this particular lawyer becomes obsessed with her and he does some very unfortunate things to show that he would like to be with her. oh boy
00:09:28
Speaker
so stalker territory area yeah one hundred percent yeah was that presumed innocent the harrison for the Yeah. Yeah. Okay. A bunch of classic stalkers. Yeah. Thinking what the Glenn close one, fatal attraction. Oh God. Yeah. Fatal attraction. Yeah. and that's third There's really good comparable. Oh yeah. Are they? Yeah. Yeah. yeah I would think, yeah.
00:09:51
Speaker
So I know that you've you've done your homework and picked a piece of art and yeah which is interesting because so you haven't mentioned that you write speculative fiction, but you have chosen a speculative fiction subject. Yeah. And I i didn't I mean, I didn't mention it because I guess, you know, I haven't just had the opportunity yet. I'm just talking and talking and maybe words will fall out of my face. um Yeah. So one of the the works in progress I'm currently working on, should be working on, is a speculative fiction piece. It's called For the Love of Cain. So for for now, it's called For the Love of Cain. Right. umt etc title Right. Not so distant ah future where
00:10:35
Speaker
Things aren't going aren't going well. Things aren't going well. But people don't understand that things aren't going well because they have been kind of evolved in this society, this one particular a country called Cain, um where you are sort of bred to fall in love.
00:10:58
Speaker
So you get to a certain age, you go to this function and you sort of like imprint on somebody and then that person is your mate and off you go for the rest of your life kind of thing. right the the The theory is that if you find fulfillment, you aren't searching for it elsewhere and so you can concentrate on your work.
00:11:17
Speaker
We want you to do this task for us until your fingers bleed and and then off you expire. So we don't want you wasting any time at the clubs, changing your name, doing whatever it is that you got to do to find this person and then being sad when you can't find the person, right? like but Take all of that energy, focus it elsewhere. So of course the question becomes, well, what happens when people die?
00:11:41
Speaker
young in particular. And so how how do people move on? Are they able to? And the way that they are um structured, they can't.
00:11:53
Speaker
So somebody comes up with a way to kind of break the spell, so to speak, and all pandemonium breaks out because of that. Because, of course, the people who can access this are corrupt and rich. And and the usual. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah so Sounds good. Yeah. Yeah. So OK. So that's wow that's a work in progress. yeah that's your work progress It's definitely speculative fiction.
00:12:18
Speaker
So yeah, so I take it there's, is there a connection then between that and the piece that you've chosen to talk about?
'Fahrenheit 451' and Modern Parallels
00:12:24
Speaker
No, actually I, what I think is, is interesting about what I chosen to talk about. So I've chosen to talk about Fahrenheit 451. Yes. Ray Bradbury. Ray Bradbury. Ray Bradbury. Very scary prognosticator. Yeah. Or brilliant prognosticator. I guess he, he wrote this book and I didn't get around to reading it in high school. It wasn't one of the things that I was reading. And so way out here later in my life, I'm picking up all these classics and I'm like, what is this one about? Everybody read this in grade 10. What's this one about? So I read it and I'm sitting on the go train and I'm
00:13:06
Speaker
you know adjusting my my earphones and I'm reading this thing about these seashells that people put in their ears and I'm looking around as everybody's just watching their their screens and everybody's so completely zoned out and I was like, good God, we're here. ah how how did How did you know? And so i once I read it, I i had to talk to everybody about it. I'm like, oh my gosh, did you read Fahrenheit 451? And they're like, yeah, like 20 years ago.
00:13:33
Speaker
Get with the program. I mean, like, no, no, you got to read it again. You got to read it now. Huh? Wow. You know, because I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't read it and you know, and I've read an awful lot of science fiction and and fantasy. I would imagine so. Yeah. Yeah. And haven't got to haven't got to that yet. So, okay. So tell me why I should read it. Why, why should all the rest of us read it? Oh my goodness. Well, particularly in this day and age, um, the, this conversation about,
00:14:01
Speaker
banning books. It's so rampant, particularly in the States, but we're seeing it happening here in in Canada. I was reading an article just the other day about these series of of books by Indigenous authors that were being banned in the Durham Region School Board were up for discussion with regard to being banned. And it's it's interesting from a So I'm not a parent. So it's interesting, you know, academically looking at this situation where you have people who may or may not have read this book, who have such power and influence over whether or not someone else's child will be able to read this book and and gain that kind of insight or, you know, see the world through another person's eyes that they don't want their child to experience for whatever reason.
00:14:56
Speaker
And so, you know, on on this sort of academic, through this academic lens, I'm concerned and thinking about, you know, what's happening all around the world, Congo, Sudan, Palestine, the States, like everywhere, everywhere, and how um we are just kind of lulled into this, I don't know,
00:15:26
Speaker
almost numbness of information wherein we were not able to you know take in the information and assimilate the information, understand the information in any way that will help us to move forward with our own lives or to process our grief or to help a cause that you might want to get involved in, or, you know, being able to argue one side of an issue or another side of an issue. And the fact that, you know, back in in 1950, hang on a second, i I got the book right beside me, I'm gonna 1951. Yeah, nineteen fifty one copyright 1951. So yes, so during this, you know, Cold War,
00:16:13
Speaker
McCarthy scare, this whole, you know, red scare situation going on in the States at that time, and this concern about the dawn of television and what it would mean. And here we are, you know, more than 50 years later, reaping the consequences of not taking the warning.
00:16:34
Speaker
And that I think is why you should read it. I don't think it's too late. Because it's not too late to take the warning? I don't think it's too late. It's irrelevant that book. I agree. yeah oh Yeah. And I imagine having read his other stuff, it's probably beautifully written as as well. Oh, yeah. Like the Martian Chronicles is, you know, I mean, we started talking about poetry. It's almost poetry. See, I haven't read those. I've read this one, but I haven't read that those. Well, what's interesting is one of the criticisms about the book is that it's so beautiful yeah that you can hardly take it seriously. And of course, that that criticism was was written in 1980 something and
00:17:13
Speaker
i I have to say, as a person who apparently writes poetry, that is the way to know you've fitted for make it makes sense, right? yeah And sometimes you you have to write something that is so beautiful to be able to get past the the horror of it, so to speak. There's a part in the book, and I mean, you haven't read it. I don't i don't want to spoil it for you.
00:17:40
Speaker
But there's a part of the book where, you know, there's this conflict going on and you don't even really realize what's happening. And I think that's the whole point, right? you have the this It's set in this time when people aren't reading books and it's in fact illegal to own books in your house. And every wall, every wall is a television screen. And they're talking about maybe getting one for the ceiling.
00:18:07
Speaker
And you are so absolutely immersed in all of this trite nonsense. whether so So he was writing it as you said that, you know, it was the dawn of television at the time. So the book was ah written as a response to the advent of television in part. Yeah. You think? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was also during the McCarthy era, right? Yeah. So that was probably ah I would say.
00:18:35
Speaker
And yeah know you speak out, you get blacklisted, you can't work. and yeah yeah I found, and it this is totally trivia, but I posted this and I masked it on a couple of weeks ago. And I learned that he, did you know how he wrote the book?
00:18:48
Speaker
so So he typed the book up on ah an old Remington typewriter, an old coin-operated Remington typewriter. Took a dime. The dime got you 30 minutes. And he bought himself a roll of dimes and went to the base. I think it's the UCLA, the basement. UCLA library. ah The Powell Library. And there was like a ah room full over these old typewriters. And I guess they weren't that old at that point. So that's how he wrote the book. And it's like, that's just amazing. The stress that must have been, because 10 cents back then was actually a lot of money.
00:19:18
Speaker
Yeah, you know, so he did that's what that was his only means that was only means. Yeah. Yeah. Someone else told me that he actually, he and his wife were quite poor. They're trying to live off his writing income and they lived above a gas station and their phone was like the public phone.
00:19:35
Speaker
at the gas station and he was always listening for it in case he got a good call from it at an editor and or an agent or something. Yeah. But I just, I it was like, wow, that's stressful. That's what happens. Can you imagine getting to the last few pages and running out of dimes? I just, I just went, Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay. I'm finishing up a work right now. I feel like I'm running out of metaphorical, metaphorical dimes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:03
Speaker
That'd be a good t-shirt, running out of dimes. So, okay, so, so red Ray Bradbury, um I read this book one time about him and and John Houston.
00:20:14
Speaker
And a little bit of a, it was kind of a sad, he, he used to write fan mail to John Huston. Like when John Huston, the director was making his first movies, like the Maltese Falcon. And he just loved this, this work and wanted to work with them, wanted to write for him. So John Huston hired him eventually to write a draft of Moby Dick because he wanted to adopt Moby Dick.
00:20:42
Speaker
And when they were filming it, Ray, he invited Ray Bradbury to the set and then proceeded to just pick on him and basically like bully him. And about things like, because like Ray Bradbury wouldn't, he didn't want to like drive in a car or something. And, you know, and Houston's like, you're a science fiction writer and you won't drive in a car.
00:21:02
Speaker
But, ah you know, apparently there were these these contradictions. And and then so those poor Bradbury went away disillusioned with, ah you know, does, you know, they'll happen to separate the man from his art business. John Houston with, ah you know, who is kind of a who could be a jerk, apparently, and and but made great movies.
00:21:25
Speaker
And that's that, you know, separating, the as you said, separating the artist from the art. Don't meet your heroes. Don't meet your heroes, my goodness. Yeah, actually, that's not always true quite often. the there is In the writing world, maybe. Yeah, yeah maybe. because yeah we I mean, we're we're a few of our heroes in this podcast and they and they're not disappointing. Yeah, they're nice. Yeah, they have been. yeah Yeah. Who are your literary heroes other than maybe Ray Bradbury? Oh, no. Let's see. Literary heroes. i I'm really enjoying
00:22:05
Speaker
See, I find hero really, like that's a big word. Maybe a problematic word for the reasons that we just mentioned. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So are there writers that um inspire you though? that that Yeah. um I really like Greg Iles. I really like Greg Iles. He writes a lot about what's going on in in Mississippi.
00:22:29
Speaker
from the perspective of a lawyer, which is, yeah and I mean, I work in a courthouse. i i Clearly, I cannot get away from that influence. so um But you know he he writes very honestly about the the situation for um white people in the South and black people in the South. And there's a book ah that he wrote a few years ago called Cemetery Road. And it's so, I keep using the word beautiful, but it's it's really, really
00:23:02
Speaker
poignant. like it's It's telling the story about a man coming home and dealing with his his dying father and having to take over their business and all of these old tragic pains from the past, from his father's you know past, are coming forward into this character's life and and all of this stuff with the clan and stuff that was that was going on so many years ago that they thought that they had moved away from and literally physically moving away from it and now having to come back or you know you've moved on because that's not how it is anymore but yeah there's this it's still there under so you know this
00:23:53
Speaker
under seat of tension that's that's still there. So I really like his books. When I first started reading his books, I was concerned because I was i was one really wondering like, what perspective are you coming from when you're writing this book? Because I don't want to, you know, really like your work and then come to find out that, you know, uh-oh, this person's a super huge problem, but it does not seem to be that case. So, and I hope that remains you know the the case but um yeah so i i really like greg ailes all that to say really great guys i just read and i have to of course shout out my buddy craig shreeves the african samurai
00:24:31
Speaker
think of Oh, my goodness. Great title. Oh, it's about the this African slave who becomes the first foreign born samurai like ever in feudal Japan. His name is Isuke. And, you know, there's there's ah anime about it. And there's all these TV shows and movies that are or not movies, on TV shows and and books that have been written about it. And I'm hoping that this book gets optioned for a movie because I think it would be incredible.
00:25:00
Speaker
Craig is an excellent, excellent writer. He wrote a book a few years ago called One Night in Mississippi, and I thought it was about one thing, read it completely about something absolutely different than what I thought it was going to be about. Again, excellent, excellent writer. So I am very lucky to know folks like you and Craig and be able to tap into all of this wonderful writery genius all around me. and I'm not sure that, uh, I mean, yeah certainly would include Mark in that, but I'm i'm going to include you in that. yeah well he's very kind Thank you. Uh, now, okay. So we people listening can't see this, but, um, because we didn't give you enough time off the top to successfully hide
Opening Quips and Quills Bookstore
00:25:45
Speaker
your background. I know you were trying to do that trick.
00:25:48
Speaker
Uh, on Zancaster and you know, that we do on Google and and zoom and whatnot to hide the background and make it look like we're all sitting in fancy cafes or something. Uh, you did not manage to do that behind you. We see a whole bunch of boxes, which you have told us is filled with books. yeah Why do you have all these boxes filled with books behind you aside from the fact that you're a writer? Well, I'm not allowed to read. Well, I guess I can read the books if I wanted to, but, uh, I am.
00:26:18
Speaker
Opening a bookstore, I decided, gosh darn it, wow that I live in rural Clarington, rural Durham region, so east, east, east of Toronto, like the very east before you get to, I don't know, what's that? um Port Hope, Coburg, that that region there. And right okay yeah we don't have like a local books bookshop in Clarington. We don't have,
00:26:47
Speaker
like a a space where where writers can, you know, get together. And I have this vision. I just have been having this vision in my head for a number of years now that, you know, I'm going to open this bookshop cafe and my husband keeps telling me like, you're going to make coffee. You're going to serve coffee.
00:27:07
Speaker
like oh dude but's you your do ah No, don't drink coffee if he's made coffee.
00:27:16
Speaker
yeah but i yeah i noticeed yeah but Yeah, that's important. Congratulations. I mean, yeah, that's cool. but What an awesome ah decision. And so okay, how far into this process are you? very, very early so early going a very early going. So how it actually kind of kicked off was I was hosting an event called the Grown Folks Book Fair. And it happened on the 8th of June.
00:27:44
Speaker
It was Saturday night and I had invited some of my um indie author friends and some traditionally published author friends and Craig Shreve was there and that was really kind of him to to come to read some of their work. And I wanted it to be kind of like ah this scholastic book fair with like this grown up vibe. So it's at this coffee shop, wine bar.
00:28:08
Speaker
and we had lovely food to eat and I was trying to entice an indie bookstore to come and sell their books there. right um Because you know you know extending your reach into the community and networking and and building community, I figured it would be a good idea for us writers to have a bookstore there and have this relationship with. yeah But unfortunately, it didn't quite work out. And I wanted Craig to have an opportunity to have his book represented. So
00:28:45
Speaker
I didn't know how to do that. And so I was, you know, Googling stuff and how do you do this and what does it mean? And all this anyway, came to this. um place where I was ordering these books in for him because of course when I first heard Craig read, his book wasn't out yet. And I thought to myself when he read this excerpt, I was like, I want this book and I want it right now. And I don't know how to get it. And of course, it wasn't coming out for several more months.
00:29:15
Speaker
So I didn't want anybody else to kind of be in that position where they had to leave there and and let that kind of fire maybe die down a little bit and maybe come across it in a bookstore. I wanted it right there. So I contacted his publisher and I said, well, I want X number of copies. And so I started looking into how to get these books and and whatnot. And so I thought to myself, hmm, why don't I just be the bookstore? That sounds like a great idea.
00:29:40
Speaker
So Quips and Quills was born June, 2024. Quips and Quills. Great name. Awesome. Love the name. Thanks. It's right up there with Cassie. And there's no even better. And there's quaffing at this Quips and Quills, right? Quaffy, yeah. There's coffee at the Quaffing and coffee. So one day, you know, if I get, you know, the opportunity to have this brick and mortar location, I'm hopeful that the the events like maybe Book Market,
00:30:10
Speaker
will be there and more grown folks book fairs and things like that. So I love that so much. It's. And how close are you to then getting a bricks and mortar location? Oh, that's, that is a down the road kind of situation at the moment. Quips and quills, you know, it gets packed into my car and I go do vendor markets around Ontario. So, ah, okay. Like a pop up kind of thing. oh Yeah. Yeah. Right now it's a pop up. Yeah. Yeah. wow That's awesome. That's a great way to start. I think.
00:30:40
Speaker
I think so. And what I'm finding is people are asking me, where's the location? Where is it? I want to come. And that just kind of gives me more fuel to to ensure that I actually go down that route. How do you decide what books to carry? I think it's a lot of, at the moment, whatever I'm seeing that really kind of speaks to me and and what I'm not seeing a lot of. i You know, you go into like a place like chapters or chapters.
00:31:14
Speaker
you Yeah, that's kind of it, isn't it? Which is a sad statement, yeah. And while you know the place is huge, when you first walk in, you're you're really kind of, I don't know, shown their view of what they think people should be reading. And I often don't find the book that I want on that table or on the front displays. So I want to showcase a lot more Canadian authors, a lot and I want a lot more independent authors. I want people who you can actually like reach out and and touch, so to speak, and who I could invite to come and will read and and have lovely conversations like we did on on the 8th of June.
00:31:59
Speaker
So I want those books there. I want your book there. We want our books there. I'll send you my book. yes yeah everyone you want All of them if you want.
00:32:10
Speaker
ah I'll come and do a reading too. Oh, wonderful. Yay. So then, so do you do, is it like a a consignment arrangement then that you do or? Yeah, so i'm I'm thinking about that right now. I was actually um talking to a friend of mine who has children's books, because that's the other thing. When I when i typically go to these um events, it's like 90% kid lit and not a lot of fiction and certainly not a lot of erotica, right? So trying to get into spaces that will feature the the adult reader, not the adult reader, but yeah an adult reader yeah um has been a little bit challenging. So um I definitely want to you know encourage folks who are writing like fiction to to bring me their book, tell me about their book and
00:33:02
Speaker
then we'll have readings and we'll do things like that. But is it consignment? No, I don't want to do it on a consignment basis. I would rather buy the book. And then so you get your money right up front.
00:33:15
Speaker
So that's, that's good for the author, but I imagine that's a quite a risk for you. risk Really? Yeah. Yeah. But that's how indie bookstores have treated me. And so yeah I thought that that was a, it's, it's a really honorable thing to do, right? You're, they're taking the risk. They're taking the risk on you. They're showing that they're willing to invest in you. And so, you know, they put your book in that local author section and guide people to that section when they come in the door. I think that's important. it built Yeah, it is great. And it has not been my experience. yeah In my experience, it's been, nope, consignment. And and then then you're lucky if they remember you later. right you know It's like, wait, where did those books go? Exactly. Yeah. And then if you're if you're an indie author, then you have to you know make sure you're on top of it. It's very easy to
00:34:07
Speaker
to not make sure you've you know checked with all the bookstores you've left your book with. and yeah absolutely a lot more than There is a certain bookstore in Toronto that has copies of my books and I have not seen any checks. You know who you are.
00:34:23
Speaker
oh yeah yeah yeah and I don't want that. like i don't want that that kind of I would feel too guilty. i would feel i would feel too guilty. But you have to be a business person as well. and hard So at these events, are you finding that you're selling the books? Yeah, actually, I did an event yesterday and I was I was selling books. I sold a couple of my own and that that always feels really, really good. Yeah, but I sold some from the bookstore, which felt absolutely great.
00:34:51
Speaker
cool yeah and what so What I find interesting about that, because I do a lot of pop-up markets ah down here in the East Coast, yeah New Brunswick and Prince Edward r Island and Nova Scotia. and my My sense is that they want to have an interaction with the person who wrote the books. yes and I do carry some books written by other people and plan to expand that in the future.
00:35:13
Speaker
with my little publishing company. And so and I was wondering how you know how that would work. you know Would people be responsive to purchasing books from you that were not written by you? But so your experience is positive. Yeah, it has been. it It's been really nice to see that. I think they just want, people just want to have um ah ah an interaction with somebody who,
00:35:37
Speaker
has an emotional connection to what is going on here, right? like not I understand what it's like on the author side, but you know and it's it's very important to me that you want to meet me and you want to talk about these books and and learn all about that stuff, but you also want to know that I'm excited about other people's work and and that this is not just this, you know,
00:36:00
Speaker
ego stroking endeavor, and not to say that, you know, if you're just, you want to sell your book, and that's, that's all you want to do. That is 100% understandable. It's hard enough as it is. But that there is really this community And that person's, this other person's success does speak to you being successful, right? Like you want people to want to read, which is also a reason why I think Fahrenheit 451 is so very interesting. The irony that you're opening a bookstore and this is the book that you want to talk about is like the opposite of what is happening in that story. I know, I know, I know. And I mean, I think honestly,
00:36:43
Speaker
the The fire chief in that story, I have a this contention that this person is you know so for the state and they they've drank the Kool-Aid for lack of a better phraseology there.
00:36:58
Speaker
but i I wonder, I think about that and and how easily this person is quoting all of these random excerpts from these books. I'm like, this is the guy that is really the subversive character here. yeah like You got to watch him.
00:37:16
Speaker
but you know Things don't work out so well for him in the end anyway. but As usual, you've you know given me, um as guests on this podcast do, more stuff to want to read as my book pile gets higher and higher. My TBR pile is just, yeah, I'm never going to get through it, but that's fine. I'm going to keep adding to it.
00:37:37
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Cause I know I have to read Fahrenheit 451. I have to read the African samurai. Oh my goodness. That sounds awesome. That's yeah so good. I was telling Craig that I was crying on the train and he's like, like really?
00:37:54
Speaker
but Did he tell anybody why? And I'm like, no, I just, I just turned the cover of your book so that everyone could see. Yeah, that's great. That's good advertising. How do you know him? I met him at the Black Lit Durham Festival. So there's in Ajax, there's a um ah community called Black Lit Durham and it's, it gets ah writers in the community to come out and do open mics and they invite Black authors from all around Canada who are, you know, incredibly, incredibly, you know.
00:38:31
Speaker
well known to, you know, small folks like me who are not well known at all. And, you know, we get up on the stage and we have an opportunity to share our work and he was there. And I said to him, you know, the majority of the people who attend that event or who had been performers at that event up to him were poets.
00:38:56
Speaker
So dub poets, you know, they've spoken word poets, people who have albums of poetry and like this this concept that just was so beyond me. Right. And so incredibly intimidating because in my mind, that's what a poet is. Right. This person who gets up on the stage and they're so fluid in their movement and they're well beyond what it is that I'm doing. So the thing I'm doing obviously can't be poetry. Right. Like that's that's where I'm coming from.
00:39:25
Speaker
And then along comes Craig Shreve, and he gets up on the stage, and he pulls out his novel, and he reads this chapter from this book. And I turned to my husband, quite literally, while Craig was reading. I turned to my husband and I whispered, and I'm like, I can do that. Like, if you're able to do that, I can do that. ah Yeah.
00:39:46
Speaker
And he's like, OK, well, look because, you know, on on Blacklit Durham, there's a there's a little button that you click. Would you like to perform register here kind of thing? And I had been you know hesitating and and making all manner of excuses as to why I couldn't do it. And then along comes Craig Tree. ah So I had to say to him at my event, um like, thank you, because had I had it not been for you,
00:40:10
Speaker
all of the things that fell into place after seeing him perform would not have happened. Like the invitations to open mics I wouldn't have taken, like all of those things came from that moment, yeah seeing wow this person get up there and not do the thing that I had conditioned my mind to believe was the thing that you had to do when you got up on the stage.
00:40:34
Speaker
That's so cool. Interesting. Yeah. It's kind of like a little, it's a wonderful life moment there. Had Craig not existed then, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's that, that concept of representation matters. Yeah, totally. Like 100%. It's just such a great example of it. Yeah, exactly. It really is. Yeah. Exactly. So that's, that's Craig. So yeah, pick up his book.
00:40:59
Speaker
Absolutely. definitely We'll we link to that as well. that's ah know We're all about that. I mean, that's really what this, that was the genesis of this podcast really was like, we want to talk about the cool stuff that other artists who, not like you you say, like not everybody knows them, that's fine. because yeah so many And there's so many who are doing great work that just people don't know.
00:41:20
Speaker
so umm Back to Fahrenheit 451. It's a book that I hesitate to call it a message book, but it is a ah book dealing with important themes, which obviously resonated with you.
The Hidden Importance of Book Themes
00:41:35
Speaker
How important is that to the books that you read and and possibly the books that you sell?
00:41:42
Speaker
i don't think that I know how important a book is going to be until I've consumed it. Right. Right. So what draws me in is what draws everybody in. Oh, a great blurb on the back or, you know, they made a ah great description on the on the the jacket, that inside flap. Or I just trust that writer to to write something that's going to be that escapism that I need. Messages, I tend not to do that to myself.
00:42:17
Speaker
because I work in an industry that can be a little bit heavy. So when I read, I just, I want to go somewhere else. So right i knowt so for pleasure. Yeah, 100%. I don't seek out things that are going to require me to reread the paragraph over and over again. If that happens, fine.
00:42:46
Speaker
But I tend not to do that, and I say that after like knowingly say saying that i that I've read Cemetery Road and and how heavy it is, and all of Greg Iles's work is so heavy. and One of the books that I really, really liked was The Name of the Rose, and there's so much Latin in that book.
00:43:05
Speaker
andberto eco yeah and You know I watched the movie when I was younger and I read the book and I found what was really really interesting about it was the pacing was so very similar and then of course you read the the afterward and how they were very faithful to the book. And same thing with um The Manchurian Candidate. So I read The Manchurian Candidate date when I was younger, watched the movie when I was younger, and the pacing was so very similar. And those are the kinds of things that I i read, right? Like they are things that just kind of capture my imagination and right
00:43:44
Speaker
I take me away on this journey. I often don't watch the movie if I've read the book, but in those particular cases, I was, it was the other way around. Like I was young, I watched the movie and then I read the book later. I could see watching the movie first. That's probably one of the few times that actually makes sense because the book is, it's really dense. Yeah. Um, and there's a lot going on there that you don't necessarily need to know about, but if you understand it, it makes it richer. So yeah, I think. Yeah.
00:44:12
Speaker
having not, you know, having no knowing what the carrying story is as you go into it gives you the space to kind of then explore these things. It's it's yeah. I actually found that with the the Harry Potter movies, I went to see two or three of them before reading the books. I read all the books to my daughters and the movies kind of left me cold. And then after reading all the books,
00:44:35
Speaker
I went back and watched the movies and they were completely different movies. Really? were I enjoyed them so much more. you Because you got the you know you got the the magic from reading got transferred into the movie then.
00:44:50
Speaker
And I think there was context there. Yeah, it colored in some things that they just didn't have time to to do in the movies, I would imagine. yeah And yeah I'm going to be the person to admit on a podcast that I have neither read the books or watched the movies. Yeah, I've only watched the movies. Yeah, I haven't read the books. I haven't done either. I watched one movie, The Prisoner of Azkaban.
00:45:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's one with the third one I think. theyre Yeah, that's the only one I watched and it has a werewolf in it and I really don't like werewolves. So it was not an enjoyable experience for me. But you know what, there's i mean there's no obligation to read. They're saying what that Harry Potter books are the second most read books next to the Bible. Oh my goodness. So I don't think you're obligated to read.
00:45:43
Speaker
She's had enough readers. carried it Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That being said, I, you know, I really thought that the, they were good books and the first one was masterfully constructed and done. Okay. That would be my take. Yeah. I mean, I'll give it a shot. Yeah. I don't know. And I'll also just say, yeah. at And I'll just say too, that I just watched the Mentoring Candidate. That was a terrific one. Which one? The Sinatra version or the? The Sinatra version. Okay. That's a great movie. That's an amazing movie.
00:46:12
Speaker
I remember sitting on my my parents couch with my dad when that Denzel version came out and we saw the commercial and I was like, what is this? What is this? And he's like, well, I'm going to watch it. I'm like, I i i cannot. You let me know because it already it looks awful. Was it was it any good? Did you watch it? Anybody watch it?
00:46:35
Speaker
It wasn't nearly as good as the first one. No, it wasn't nearly as good, but it was ok okay. Okay. Um, yeah, it was okay. But I love his interest with, uh, like I always tend to like the, the earlier versions of, uh, you know, like, and you'll laugh at me, but, um, a movie like the parent trap. So yeah I would get like the Disney, email the parent trap. Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:01
Speaker
But yeah, no, I just like it. Like the original version of Freaky Friday, the original version of the parent trap, you know, all of those. they just have a certain charm. I will not laugh at you. I think that that is thank you wonderful. And clearly you understand that that's the better quality film. Yeah.
00:47:22
Speaker
yeah Clearly you have taste. Thank you. thank Because you agree with me or I agree with you. That's right. I think this might have to do with demographics more than anything else. certain yeah whats to be like because i Well, I think sometimes as I've seen this with some younger people and they they they see the remake first and then they go see the original and all they can see is the difference in technology, right? Like for someone who doesn't watch black and white movies,
00:47:54
Speaker
that step back to the original mentoring candidate, which is black and white. And there's some really muddy parts to that movie too, right? Cause they've got, they've got lots of shots of screens, which yeah TV screens back to early fifties, TV screens are very bad to start with. And they, they film those. Yeah. They just can't make the connection. They can't, they can't see because, um, the acting in it is amazing.
00:48:18
Speaker
and the pacing is so great. John Frankenheimer. I love his, frank and yeah, uh, the movie he, I think he made it afterwards. It's called Seven Days in May. Have you folks seen that one? Oh no. no Oh my God. Okay. So put this on your list. So it's, um, it's Bert Lancaster and, uh, Kirk Douglas. And the premise is, I don't want to spoil the movie, but the premise is there's a plot to overthrow the the government in the United States. Bert Lancaster is part of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I can't remember what he is, a Navy guy or whatever, but, and he's the senior officer, obviously, and Kirk Douglas is an attache in the office and he figures out what's going on. He has to stop this coup. It's essentially a coup. It's really, really good. It's so relevant to this time. o Yes, it is.
00:49:11
Speaker
And those actors Bert Lancaster and yeah Ava Gardner's in it. She's great too. Like it's a really good movie. Seven days in May. Interesting. It's also black and white though, I think.
00:49:23
Speaker
I think I can handle it. So if that's the barrier, I just for other listeners, if that's the barrier for you, then yeah. And I know people that are like that and it's okay, I get it. You're cutting out yourself off from a whole bunch of interesting culture. Oh yeah, I have no issues with that black and white at all. Yeah. And sometimes it's totally the right choice, even currently. Yes. Yeah. So Abi, anything else that you would like to say about Fahrenheit 451 or anything else?
00:49:49
Speaker
Um, read it, read it, read it, read it. And if you get ah the copy that I got was the 60th anniversary edition, it's got a wonderful forward and it's got all of these really interesting, um, short articles at the, at the end by all of these different speculative fiction authors. It's really insightful. I really, really enjoyed the book and those, um, essays at the, at the end. And mark my final thoughts, questions, apparently I'm coming back.
00:50:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, we can talk about yeah In Capricut, I don't know about okay. Yeah. Oh, okay. There's okay. There's one time when I think maybe the remake was better Okay, okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah, that was a really good remake. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think I'm gonna end on that note cuz that's pretty high nice nice note All right. Okay. Abigail, Abbie Grimes, thank you very much for being on our podcast Recreative. Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. And lovely to meet you. So much. So lovely to meet you.
00:51:15
Speaker
You've been listening to Recreative, a podcast about creativity and the works that inspire it. Recreative is produced by Mark Rainer and Joe Mahoney for Donovan Street Press, Inc., in association with Monkey Joy Press. Technical production of music by Joe Mahoney. Web design by Mark Rainer.
00:51:33
Speaker
You can support this podcast by checking out our guest's work, listening to their music, purchasing their books, watching their shows, and so on. You can find out more about each guest in all of our past episodes by visiting recreative.ca. That's re-creative.ca. Thanks for listening.