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77 Plays6 days ago
Joe and Mark are joined by Cathi Bond, Canadian writer, broadcaster and novelist.
Joe and Cathi used to work together at the CBC, where Cathi was the “Video Diva.” She had a great gig, watching movies and talking about them on air.
Music is another huge passion in Cathi's life, and informs her choice of art. It’s also an integral part of her writing process. She says her writing sessions often start with building a play list that she’d play while writing.
Cathi is the author of the Woman of Good Standing Trilogy.
It's a fun conversation about music, singing, and the joy of being creative!
For more information, check out the show notes for this episode.
Re-Creative is produced by Donovan Street Press Inc. in association with MonkeyJoy Press.
Contact us at [email protected]
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Transcript
Catching Up: Travels and Tan Lines
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello, Mark. Joe, you traveling bastard. How you been? Good. Long time no see. It's been like six weeks or something. It's crazy. Well, we had a good backlog of guests that we recorded. So we were able to take a little break. And and it was good. And I'm all rested up. I'm tanned. and And you're looking good. Smoking, Joe. You said that before we started recording. And I said, well, you look good too. And then I asked you, what happens if we you know say that to someone and they don't look good?
00:00:38
Speaker
I say thank you and then I move on to another topic because that's the way I roll. But I have a third topic, which is related to your travels. You've been traveling a bit.
The Joy of Train Travel
00:00:50
Speaker
Yeah. What is your favorite mode of transportation?
00:00:54
Speaker
I don't even know have to think about that. I love the train. Okay, all right. Yeah, back in my CBC working days, whenever I had the opportunity to take the train, I took the train. Took the train to Montreal, took the train to Ottawa. When I was younger and looking to go home to Prince Edward Island, I would take the train as far as it would go. I love the train, especially business class, where they whine and dine you. And if you've been to Europe, the train is magnificent.
00:01:20
Speaker
I have taken the trip to Europe and it's, yeah, it is amazing. So I think we should ask our guests. Kathy Bond, welcome to our podcast, Recreative. Hey, thanks for having me, guys. I agree with Joe about the train. There's nothing like traveling by train, and especially through Italy and Germany.
00:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, I kind of agree. this If we're being technical and like we're talking about motorized transportation or sort of sort of transportation that's aided, but actually my favorite mode is walking. That's my favorite way of getting around. Well, that is the healthy way to get around, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, especially in a travel mode, like if you can walk, it's the best.
00:02:00
Speaker
So did you have a reason for asking that question, Mark? I have no reason. just I just like, I knew you were traveling and you were on a boat and I thought, oh, maybe he likes boats. Maybe he likes being on a ship. And i I do actually like being on the water. I would say my second favorite way of traveling is canoe. It's a wonderful way to move through the world. And you're not allowed to say flying these days, are you? I would never say it because I don't like flying. It's not like I do it, but it's not my favorite thing.
00:02:30
Speaker
Flying and is hideous. I bring it up because Mark and I have talked about this before where life isn't long enough to do all the things that we want to do. But one of the things that if I could live five or six lifetimes, one of those lifetimes, I would be interested in being a pilot. That I'd be more interested in than just flying. Like piloting kind of interests me. so And Kathy's like, what are you guys talking about? Did you come on? Did I come on? It's my whole evening to come on this podcast and talk about ah fly I would like to try a gliding. Have either of you ever been in a glider? No, that does seem really cool. I never have. But my old friend Rod Crocker, who you might remember from the CBC, Kathy, he was a glider pilot. Well, he never invited me. He never invited me, bastard.
00:03:15
Speaker
So Kathy, before we get a little
Introducing Kathy Bond: Life and Inspirations
00:03:17
Speaker
too far into this, so what we typically do in this podcast is we have our guests introduce them themselves. And I've known you for a long time, I could say a bunch of stuff, but I'm not going to. I don't like talking about myself. Oh, but we make everyone do it, so you have to too.
00:03:32
Speaker
OK, well, my name is Kathy Bond. I used to work at the CDC. I had the opportunity that was so much fun to be the video diva for a number of years, for like a decade. And man, what a kick that was to get to lie around and watch movies all day that you loved. And I did a degree in cinema at the University of Toronto. And I worked at a video store, much like Quentin Tarantino. So that's all we would do is sit around and yak about movies constantly with anybody and everybody. My God. That's the dream. Yeah, it was. It was. i Yeah, I miss that gate. I think I always will. Damn them. Yeah. Anyway, another huge passion of mine is music.
00:04:16
Speaker
music is such a huge part of my life. I have an enormous music collection. Also, I love to write. I live to write. I am compelled to write. And I also have a farm with my brothers and I love being up there. So I have the great fortune of being able to be right downtown in Toronto, right beside the old Maple Leaf Gardens and being out in the middle of the 200 acre field on the weekends. So talk about blessed. Oh, that's great. And compelled is such a great word for writers. Well, yeah, we wouldn't do it if you weren't forced by self. Exactly. My students asked me on Monday last week for my first class, like, why do you do it? It's like, well, I, I have to.
00:05:00
Speaker
yeah I don't use this analogy anymore, but I used to use the analogy of like being a writer is like always having homework because there's always something more to learn, more to do. Yeah. Yeah. yeah But it's, it's good homework. It's all good work. It is. Yes. It's like all I think about. So you, and speaking of writing, so you have two books out already. Yeah.
Crafting a Trilogy: From Bessie to Night Town
00:05:23
Speaker
Uh, both of which are read. So night town, which came out a few years ago.
00:05:28
Speaker
twenty seventeen Yeah. And then most recently, another one called Bessie, which um ah you intend to be a part of a trilogy. Can you tell us more about those books? Sure. About 15 years ago, maybe closer to 20, I was working on my first novel that you mentioned, Night Town.
00:05:49
Speaker
And I decided that I wanted it to be part of a trilogy that would follow the lives of these two families throughout the greater part of the 20th century. And that Night Town would be nestled in the center, and then I would write one that would be like a prequel.
00:06:05
Speaker
But when I got picked up, thank God, by my publishing host, Montreal Publishing Company, a new sort of a boutique small house, they decided, because Bessie was originally called A Woman of Good Standing, and they decided that they wanted to make it into a trilogy. And I went, yeah! Then I said, but how is this going to work? Because Nighttown's already been written.
00:06:31
Speaker
And they said, you can just rewrite it. Just pull it from Amazon. Just pull it from any sales places at all. So that's what I did. And so I'm getting my notes back on that tomorrow. And then after that's finished, then I will get to work on Thea, which is short for Theodora. Because the thing that's unique about this trilogy is that it's from the perspective of three different women from different historical periods over nearly 100 years.
Historical Context and Research for 'Bessie'
00:07:02
Speaker
That's very cool. yeah Yeah. Yeah. And it was actually, it was, um, Natalie Jimbo, who is one of the partners who was her idea. And it was, I thought a great one.
00:07:13
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm so excited. And it is very effective too, having read the both. So Night Town was set in modern times. And then in this one, you go back to the depression era. That to me was one of the most compelling aspects of it of the book is is this insight into Canadian history that you hear a ah lot about the depression from the American perspective, but not so much from the Canadian. I know. I know. I did so much research. It took a about eight months to do the research.
00:07:42
Speaker
ah But in the end, the book that was the most helpful was Pierre Burton's The Great Depression. If you're if you're ever actually interested in having a full understanding of that period, I can't recommend that book largely enough or hugely enough. I recently watched ah ah one of Ken Burton's documentary, which is about the the Dust Bowl, ah which oh yeah you know is centered on the on the Great Depression. So yeah, I i want to know more.
00:08:10
Speaker
My grandmother used to tell me about the depression yeah because yeah she lived on a farm, and but fairly close to St. Thomas, so near a major rail center. So they had, I think the right word is hobos.
00:08:27
Speaker
That's the word. I think that's the right word because I know that they're the ones who are willing to work if they can get a job, but but can't find a job. Yeah. And then she told stories about people would come by every day and they would do the best they could and try to feed everybody who came by. And it's just like, it's hard to imagine that's your day to day, that people just need food. Yeah. No, it's in cities, they built what were called hobo jungles.
00:08:57
Speaker
And they're quite well outlined within the novel, Bessie, which I'll say 85 times during this talk. yeah And then they were also known as the wandering men. And a lot of it is outlined in the novel. But, you know, the government set up, which was under R.B. Bennett at the time. It was a conservative government. And they set up what were called relief camps. And they would there were basically these horrible,
00:09:24
Speaker
little bunkers and they were made out of steel and they would just cram the guys in there in bunk beds and it was broiling hot because they were made out of steel or tin whatever i honestly don't call material and then they would be forced to go out and do these ridiculous like dig holes and then fill them up again It reminds me also of um George Orwell's book, Down and Out in Paris and London, which I don't know if you've read that one, you probably did in your research, but the Paris was mildly romantic.
00:10:02
Speaker
The idea that you know you're selling some clothes so you can eat isn't very cool, but at least you're still in Paris. yes Him relating the stories of London where they had, I guess they did have some sort of government run relief, but they were 20 miles apart. So you'd wake up, you'd eat your whatever breakfast you could get, which is probably like a couple pieces of bread or a piece of bread, some tea, and then you'd walk 20 miles.
00:10:30
Speaker
to get to the next place yeah where you could get some food in a bed. Yeah. We should just mention that, so occasionally we're hearing ah airplanes in the background, which is cool. We like weird sounds on on this podcast, but just to explain to listeners if they're hearing something strange, that's what it is. So I was tapped into something with my transportation question. Yes, you were. You were. Yeah. So honestly, folks,
00:10:54
Speaker
Yeah, I live right downtown next to Maple Leaf Gardens and plains fly over here all of the time. Some drones too. So, you know, pay no attention. So before we get to your choice of art, I want to ask this business of of doing the trilogy and rewriting Nighttown I thought Nighttown, you know the way you originally executed it, was was very effective and and worked completely. How do you feel about rewriting it and how much do you intend to rewrite it? Well, it's done. My draft is completed. and But did you revise the the the already published edition? Oh, yeah, completely. It was so much fun. I had such a great time.
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, the folks at MPC were amazing. And they had great feedback. And there were a lot of characters from Bessie that they insisted that they come back. So it was fun. I couldn't imagine rewriting one of my books already published. i'm Like I'm done with them. I haven't published it yet, but I've just done it, Joe.
00:12:00
Speaker
yeah I've just done a rewrite of the Amadeus net. Oh, yeah, that's right. And ah because yeah, because what have it 20 years has passed. So it's like, well, I should look at this. And it's like, and then I kind of just looked at everything and yeah it was really fun. I'm with Kathy on this one. It was really fun to go back and go, I was pretty right on this, but I missed this. And yeah, yeah I'm revealing myself yet again as lazy. She just don't want to do that.
00:12:29
Speaker
But i I look forward to the next iteration of of both books. So with that, and we'll get back to your to your writing and your books. So you had suggested to me that you were you were interested in talking about music, but you didn't really kind of narrow it down. Have you given any more thought about what kind of music you want to talk about and introduce
Music and Writing: Creating Playlists for Inspiration
00:12:49
Speaker
to us? ah Well, as I mentioned earlier, music really informs every moment pretty much of every day of my life. I can't even think of a day that music hasn't been involved in it. So whenever I write, no matter what project, I create a playlist.
00:13:06
Speaker
And I listen to it while I write. So I'm sure you remember the song, we've heard the song Pretty Baby. So I listened to that a lot. And then as I moved into, and and a lot of different things from the 30s, like Ruth Edding, 10 Cents to Dance, which is all about taxi dancers.
00:13:27
Speaker
Do you guys know what a taxi dancer is? no I do know what that is, yes. I do know. Okay. Well, women would go to these dance halls and the women would stand around and wait for guys to ask them to dance. And the fee was 10 cents a dance. yeah And that's how the women would make their money. oh The Ruth Edding lyric is really quite evocative. It's 10 cents a dance. That's what they pay me before they tear my gown.
00:13:56
Speaker
Come on, big boy, 10 cents a dance. So it sort of implies the the violence um and the desperation that the women felt in order to make their 10 cents. And it doesn't sell you very much money. Imagine all the dancing you'd have to do to you know buy a loaf of bread now.
00:14:15
Speaker
um But it was a 1930s song, right? Like it was... It was a 20s. Oh, 20s. Oh, okay. But was it popular in the 30s? Like it seemed... Yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then I may have misspoken about the actual date, but yeah, that's when Ruth Eddington, most of her singing was through the dirty 30s. And that would have spoke to people living that life and trying to live through that depression.
00:14:41
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I have a character in Bessie who has been doing that when she arrives back in the town of Eyre to run a saloon. So tell us more about about the music. you know what what What else did you have in the playlist, for example, when you were writing Bessie?
00:14:59
Speaker
Well, well, one of the chapters is even called The Very Thought of You. And I think Mac King Cole did a version that came out in 1958, which was insanely popular. But so did Frank Sinatra. And that's the one I listen to all the time, because that's when I came out in the 40s. I think the 40s was a time There was so much music. There was all the big band music. You know, there was Duke Ellington, Take the A Train. There was Begin the Begun. That's the name of another chapter. And that was by Artie Shaw. I just listened to the big band music over and over and over again. And it was not a challenge for me because I love, love, love big band music. Yeah. And that's pretty much in a bit of country, but not too much.
00:15:47
Speaker
Not got too much country in the Andrews sisters. So there was yeah it was it was very happy making the music. So is that like the era that kind of speaks to you the most, this kind of like 20s to 50s, that sort of i listen jazz to big band kind of era? I do not like Celine Dion. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. she's bi bus side yeah I know. I'm going to get thrown off the podcast now. I don't like stuff like that. I have that back to the Ken Burns documentary. One of the amazing things about that documentary was just the number of ah Woody Guthrie songs in it. Yeah, that's strange. Yeah. I didn't even think of Woody Guthrie.
00:16:35
Speaker
But actually he was from that area. He was from Oklahoma, I think, or somewhere around there where the Dust Bowl hit. And so for him, it was very personal. And a lot of his popular songs are about that Dust Bowl experience. and Yeah. Yeah. No, I read a lot. the The Great Depression really hit the people in the West the worst.
00:17:01
Speaker
You know, they were forced to eat this this thistle. It's called a Russian thistle that grew on their farms. And the woman would boil it and try and saute it or do anything to dress it up. And apparently it was just horrible. So you don't want to have Russian thistle salad. boy Oh my God, no.
00:17:21
Speaker
but yeah Yeah, I'll pass. Thank you. yeah Oh, boy. So thinking back ah to your novel, Bessie, music did feature several times you had um the protagonist Bessie and Ed dancing a lot. Yeah.
Musical Heritage: From Piano to Guitar
00:17:36
Speaker
Well, dancing, at least I don't know that people dance as much as they used to, but back then my parents were huge dancers. They'd go dancing all the time. And it would be it was even the same thing in the country because both of my parents grew up in the country and so did both of my grandfathers and both of my grandmothers. So, you know, going to the, to a hoedown or going to hear a concert at church or wherever was a big event. And every evening pretty much was capped off with dancing. I remember when I was very young, people would always move the coffee table and put on the high five and there would be dancing. And it was usually a lot of that, as I used to call it, that old-timer music. No, our old-timer music.
00:18:25
Speaker
but I know that my my father and uncles used to do that. and my My grandfather played the piano, my uncle played the the fiddle, and and they would get together. and they would They would be the the talent at the various dances in their hometown of Johnville, New Brunswick.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no, my Uncle Hugh was in a band called The Haysids, and he played the drums. And it's still very much like that out there, but not as much as it used to be. Because before, we think about it, you know, we did, there wasn't, there weren't televisions. You know, you kind of had to make your own entertainment. So, I know in my my family, like we have a very large family, there were 27 grandchildren that my grandfather had.
00:19:07
Speaker
And we were all encouraged to learn learn a musical instrument and I didn't have to play the piano. I was, well, I wasn't forced. My brother was forced, but I liked it. So do you still play the piano? No, but I'm planning to pick up the guitar again. Oh, I mean, you used to play the piano and and now you, and then you learned the guitar.
00:19:29
Speaker
Yeah, I taught myself the guitar. I can still play the rudimentary chords, but I used to be able to play really well, and I think I'll be able to pick it up again. My current partner is a fantastic guitarist, so she's going to teach me. But I think she's going to make it hard. No, because she's going to make me do those frets. You know when you have to put your finger down on the different fret bars? Do either of you guys play the guitar? You mean barre chords?
00:19:58
Speaker
That's it. That's the revival. Yeah. i I avoid those like assiduously. They're like, okay, I can play it that way, but I can also do this. Yeah. and So there's other ways to play without playing bar chords. She will not teach me if I don't learn bar chords. I've been told. I can hook you up. I got a few. I got i know a few musicians. I can hook you up. Okay. I also don't want to learn how to sing again.
00:20:22
Speaker
because I used to be able to sing when I was young, you know, in church choir. is volto and I to believe that if you could sing, if you could carry a tune up until the time you were about 12 or 13,
00:20:36
Speaker
You should still be able to carry a tune, don't you think? A hundred percent. You can still sing. you don't I'm sure you can. and You don't even need lessons. You can just start singing. But yeah, if you want to do it for real, you might want to get some lessons on how to breathe properly and support yourself. But you don't have to. You could just sing. Do it. Sing for fun. I do that. i yeah I sing to my dog all the time. He has some of the songs. Sing a song. This is the part of the podcast where we all break into song.
00:21:04
Speaker
Or not. Yeah. yeah yeah I actually, i sing I've said this before in the podcast, I sing um when I'm walking the dog. ah just I spend the time yeah memorizing lyrics and just singing. I make up songs. Even better. It's fun. Because you're a creative individual. So are you.
00:21:29
Speaker
We all are. So is Mark. We're all these crazy creative wonderkins. I have to ask you, Kathy, because we both have a background with the CBC and and I've been out of the CBC now for just over a year.
CBC Memories and Life's New Chapter
00:21:43
Speaker
I was telling Mark that I remember the first time that I met you, you walked into a studio and I was there and you looked at me and the very first thing you ever said to me was, you look confident.
00:21:55
Speaker
Really? Yeah, which I didn't necessarily feel competent, but I really appreciated that the compliment. I can be very direct. Oh, dear. I know. It was great. Yeah. And I liked you instantly and and we became friends, I think. Hope, hopefully. But anyway, the question I was going to ask you was, do you miss the CBC? Yes. Why?
00:22:19
Speaker
I loved my gig. I think I mentioned that earlier. It was so much fun. I know a lot about movies. It's another passion. It was still, it was so much fun. And I had, this is gonna sound so like so full of myself, but I loved hearing myself on the radio every Saturday afternoon. ah Nothing wrong with that. That's hilarious. I used to take them and listen to them again, over and over again.
00:22:48
Speaker
And it wasn't to try and improve my performance. It just made me feel good about myself. we were Yeah. You were great. And, uh, cause you were, we heard you a lot on, uh, definitely not the opera back in the four young days. Yeah. And before that, uh, program called brand X, which was something that was on for the year or maybe two. And they had, there was no host. They had all these different contributors of what you were one. I was.
00:23:16
Speaker
I have another memory of you. I distinctly remember you you barking on the radio. I did all sorts of animal sounds. People love that. Oh, there we go.
00:23:32
Speaker
but we can We've stumbled upon a treasure trove. We own that, right, Joe? Yeah.
00:23:46
Speaker
ah Fantastic. Yeah. So, okay. um But I mean, you could still do some freelancing, couldn't you? At the CBC? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know where I would go. I'd like to get it on the next chapter. That's what I'd like to do. Do you still have any pulp?
00:24:03
Speaker
Uh, they haven't, they haven't asked me back either. So. Yeah. Bastards. No, you have to realign your bastards. And they've got a new show called Book It. I heard a promo for that today. I heard a promo for that. It's like, oh, that sounds like a fun idea. What happens when the book ends? And so talk to the author about what happens afterwards. I don't think I ever- Oh, the despair about how much money you didn't make. Exactly.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. Why have I done this to myself? Yeah. You know, so the the question of, you know, do you still have any pull at the CBC? So my daughter, who's now, my daughter Kira, who's now working in St. John's CBC. That's right. I saw that on Facebook. She said to me that, I'm sorry to tell you this, Dad, but like you're, you've aged out of the CBC. and Like all the people that you used to know, they're gone. Yeah. Same with me.
00:25:00
Speaker
Yeah. It's not completely true. There's still a few people there that I, that I know, but, but like you, I, I do miss it, but I'm also happy to be in this next chapter of my life. Yeah. Yeah. Oh no. You seem to be having a great time. Yeah. Is, is Don, I should have asked you this before, but is Donovan Press your house? It is. That's great, Joe. That's really good. Why didn't you tell me?
00:25:26
Speaker
I don't know. I do have a ah partner. He's shy. Yeah. Just something fun to to try. Yeah. Yeah. I wish you all the luck in the world. Well, and same to you. Well, thank you. so But I want to hear more about, because you mentioned a lot of music when you emailed me, and you couldn't really make up your mind about what which one you wanted to talk about, because I guess ah they're all your favorites. Oh, I think it would probably be the very thought of you. That was the Frank Sinatra, right?
00:25:57
Speaker
That's right. I started listening to Frank Sinatra three or four years ago because I was like, what is all the fuss about Frank Sinatra? And and so I, you know, pulled up a bunch of and it has stayed in my playlist because there was some really great stuff.
00:26:12
Speaker
Oh yeah. He just, he covered the gamut. Do you like Frank Sinatra, Mark? Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. And actually I like his acting too. Yeah. I just watched from here to eternity. Yeah. He's fabulous in that. I love him in um the Manchurian candidate. i Oh yes. I just saw that recently. And if you haven't seen the man with the golden arm, you got to watch it. Yeah, he was a junkie, right? Yeah, he plays a junkie and he's so good. And I think for him, that movie was probably a real big stretch because he was starting to get very well known as a singer, but he wanted to do film and yeah, he took this role on and it's, it's amazing, the acting in it. A really good movie that you probably haven't heard about that he stars in, it's called Suddenly.
00:27:02
Speaker
And again, it's from the 40s and he plays a Russian undercover spy in a small town as I recall, it's in California. Do you guys think he had underworld connections to get where he got?
00:27:15
Speaker
Oh boy, good question. Uh, he had connections for sure, but I don't think he needed them to get where he got. I feel like he had enough talent vocally, especially he's just an amazing vocalist. And I can't imagine that he wouldn't have been successful on his own.
00:27:34
Speaker
I think the connections probably came later in his life. That's my guess. I mean, people like Mark and I have obviously both required underworld connections to get where we've got. Yeah, me too. But I think somebody like Frank Sinatra, no, he was able to do it on the strength of his talent.
00:27:52
Speaker
I'm not sure. I got to think. So you do you have a real person expecting that? Why are you asking that question then? Yeah. Oh, just because we were talking about Frank Sinatra and his connection to the mafia was undeniable. And so far, you know, I went so far that Francis Ford Coppola made a movie called The Godfather that was sort of about Frank Sinatra, was the the character who was the singer, who was Talia Shearer's husband.
00:28:16
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Hmm. Okay. We're all writers and we're all, uh, we want to be successful. And I've, I've thought a lot about the question of success as a writer, what, what success means and and how to get there. And I think one thing ah that's certain is that to be successful, you got to have the talent, but you do have to have some help, whether it's underworld or not. There's got to be some money behind you, you know, yeah or some people with guns.
00:28:45
Speaker
Or somebody who will cut off a horse's head and throw it in your bed to get you a gig. Or a lot of luck. That's what I've done wrong. Yeah. So I don't think I could chop off a horse's head to get it. No, no way. No, not even. They're so nice. They're so nice. I know. No, there's no animal's head that I could chop off to. You know, somebody said to me, you could be as well known and successful as Stephen King. All you got to do is chop off this canary's head. I'd be like, nope, sorry.
00:29:13
Speaker
I'm not going to do it. Mark. Is it an evil canary? Yes. That is a tough choice. I've been doing the world good anyway, right? Because it's an evil canary. Yeah. ah good So, okay, let me ask you this then,
Success in Writing: Art Over Earnings
00:29:33
Speaker
Kathy. What does success mean for you as a writer? It means getting better at writing. It doesn't mean money.
00:29:42
Speaker
good If I thought it was money, I'd be a sucker. I went down that rabbit hole with screenwriting and I got so screwed over so many times. No, no, I do it because again, compelled. That's why I'm here on the earth, is to tell stories. That's my only job.
00:30:03
Speaker
Now you had also mentioned before we started the podcast in correspondence that you had learned a lot by publishing your first book, Night Town. You had a set of expectations that I think were not met. Can you tell us about that, like what you learned from that experience? I honestly tell anybody who asks me, who wants to be a writer, I said, make sure you've got a backup gig.
00:30:27
Speaker
because the chances of monetary success are about the same as winning the lottery. And I still firmly believe that to be true. I've been slogging this book of mine around in the trunk of cars, going to bookstores all over Southwestern Ontario. like I'm making some money, but I certainly couldn't survive on that.
00:30:51
Speaker
And honestly, I don't mean to sound like a bummer, but I love writing. I'm good at it. I love telling stories. And that's all I care to do with the rest of my life. I love that. That's just fabulous. That's that's that's great. Yeah.
00:31:06
Speaker
It is a real conundrum though, isn't it? Cause yeah, we're, we're driven to do this and some of us are driven to do even stupider things like start little indie publishing companies. Like Robert J. Sur once told me, it's like, how do you make a million bucks as a publisher? Start with 10 million. But yeah, it's so hard to become conventionally successful at it and yet we're compelled to do it. Yeah. And I'm with you that success is, is not about the money. It's, um, it's about producing the work.
00:31:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's about the art. It's about the passion that you have for putting the words together. It's about the thrill of actually writing what you think and hope is a perfect paragraph or even a perfect sentence. To me, that's enough.
00:31:48
Speaker
Well, and to me, it's it's ah also about being part of the ah the writing community, like doing things like this podcast with Mark and then talking to people like you and and meeting tons of other writers and creatives, and then going to the fairs and and meeting people there and and meeting the readers. and Yeah, I love doing that. And I didn't do that at all with Night Town because I thought I shouldn't have to. It was a matter of stupid pride, asshole dignity. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. I thought I'm the artist. I'm the writer. I write. I'm not sad.
00:32:21
Speaker
and this now I'm out I'm selling my and I enjoy it I actually enjoy talking to the readers and now through selling Bessie I've met a whole bunch of great writers it's very much you know echoing what you're saying about building a community and yeah I guess that's what business people do you know, when they go out for lunch. I don't know. I've never paid for this person. Yeah. Yeah. So you thought at that time you thought, okay, i've done I've done the work and now it's the publisher's job. So at what point did you realize that the publisher wasn't doing that? You know, how did your head get spun around? I've never had any other choice not to write.
00:33:03
Speaker
I know I keep coming back to that. I i saved while I was working. I was also extremely fortunate and I inherited some money and I don't spend a lot, so I invested it wisely and that's how I afford to write. like I know it's not very exciting, but it's the truth. but you know it's exciting and Can you tell us what stocks we should purchase to help us? Well, I really made out really well with Dollarama. I got in at the ground.
00:33:32
Speaker
But I don't like that stuff. I don't enjoy it. You know, yeah there was a period of time when I couldn't write because I was busy um being executive tricks of my father's estate. And that meant dealing with a lot of these stock holding. And there's a real art to managing a portfolio and doing it well. But I couldn't handle the stress of watching the prices go up and down. I just choose to put faith in myself and in my words and the telling of stories. I know I keep saying that, but it's true.
00:34:03
Speaker
Yeah, but makes complete sense to to me and I'm sure mark as well. Yeah, of course. I mean, it's, I describe it to my students. It's like early on I realized I needed to find a way to support my fiction habit.
00:34:16
Speaker
Like my bad heroin habit, you know, I need to find a way to support this and yeah, so you just find a way to do it and then make enough time for the writing so that you're not going to go insane, basically. Yeah. No, that's what was so perfect about the gig at the CBC as a video diva.
00:34:38
Speaker
was it just dovetailed so nicely with, you know, basically pretty much coming out of university. There was a little act of nepotism because I knew one of the producers on Brand X and said, oh, she's funny and she can talk about movies. So then I got that gig and I had it for over 12 years and or 10 years. And I started doing other things at the CBC, but it paid my rent. And I also live in a rent control building.
00:35:02
Speaker
That's something else that I would highly recommend to any other struggling authors get into a rent controlled subsidized building Yeah, and so I remember uh, so I was trying to get a science fiction to show off the ground when I was at the cbc and I contracted you to do a little mini documentary on uh, Science fiction movies focusing on the other do you remember that?
00:35:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I do. but Yeah, that never aired. We did like three pilots and only the first one aired. But I still have your documentary that you did. Would you mind ah if i we played it as a part of this podcast? No. Is it embarrassing? No, it's great. And I'm going to play it right now. Okay.
00:35:43
Speaker
oofee
00:35:48
Speaker
Happy you're a police, police birthday, you were sent from another world, you. Oh, thank you. No offense, but you do look kind of like wookies or werewolves or something. and And people hate that. I mean, they're going to want to shoot you or something. Clattool, varada, nikto. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
00:36:11
Speaker
Humans are a nosy parker species. When something a little different, maybe even not human approaches, our initial response is to look first, sniff around a bit, and try to communicate. I'm Maria. Will you play with me? But if the creature doesn't respond the way we'd like it to, well, then we generally revert to form. but What can we do? Kill it, as you would any savage animal. In a few minutes he'll be through that door.
00:36:40
Speaker
Strangers have been bursting through the door since we started making movies, and how we react to them says a lot about our culture at the time. In 1931's Frankenstein, we were obviously fascinated and equally panicked by the unbridled power of science. Could we create life? Would that make us like God? It's alive's alive! alive! It's alive! It's alive! It's alive!
00:37:06
Speaker
By the 1960s we'd stopped worrying about hubris, embraced technology and were very optimistic about paddling around with non-humans. Barbarella tooled around the galaxy in her flying sex saucer trying to hook up with interplanetary boy toys.
00:37:25
Speaker
po froce kaluci de bonahak i knew howchi now nekida but adjust my tongue box Barbaraella wasn't afraid of anything. The sexual revolution was backing her up. And television was backing our love affair with strangers from beyond. A suburban kid was living with my favorite Martian.
00:37:45
Speaker
Captain Kirk and the Starship Enterprise were visiting strange new worlds. And in the late 70s, Mark had hooked up with Mindy. menu and But it was 1977 and Steven Spielberg's close encounters of the third kind that ushered in the golden age of us loving them cinema.
00:38:09
Speaker
There were so many great movies made during this period. Blade Runner, Starman, an interplanetary love story, and even one very wacky musical.
00:38:25
Speaker
But then it ended. Widespread panic has gripped the countryside as thousands have taken to the streets. Now we flock to see films like Independence Day, X-Men, and The Fifth Element. No longer are strangers our friends. They've become unknown enemies with superior powers. Can there be a peace between us? Peace.
00:38:51
Speaker
No peace. What is it you want us to do?
00:39:01
Speaker
Where did this fear come from? It could be terrorism, resulting in an increase in cultural tension. It might be science, maybe technology. Whatever the cause, it's not the first time the fear of the unknown has appeared at the movies.
00:39:15
Speaker
Our concerns about communism, mixed with the distinct possibility of a nuclear holocaust, were translated into the classic science fiction films of the 1950s. The Day the Earth Stood Still, War of the Worlds, Forbidden Planet, all marvellous examples of a society simply scared to death. But where do we go from here? Dive under the blankets and barricade the doors? Not me.
00:39:40
Speaker
dusting off my welcome mat and looking up to the sky. I'm Kathy Bond for Faster Than Light. Wasn't that awesome? It was. I'm not too embarrassed. no No. No, I love doing that stuff. It's fantastic stuff. But now the CBC is going to come after me and sue me because it was supposed to have been made for them, but I don't care. and I know. It's none of them we listening to this podcast. Dare them to do it. yeah Come on, come and get Joe.
00:40:11
Speaker
Leave me alone, leave me alone. Okay, just a couple more questions, if I may. So Bessie is set in the depression era. And in World War II. And World War II, that's right. Yes, there's a character that that goes to war, and we won't reveal what happens there, which is a very also interesting piece of writing, because you kind of change your style for that that little section when he goes to war. But people are going to have to buy the book and read it to to find out what I'm talking about. Buy the book. Buy the book. Buy the book. Buy the Buy the book. And then Night Town, as we mentioned, is set in the modern era. And what is the name of the other book in the trilogy? Sia.
00:40:50
Speaker
It's short for Theodore. the That is set in, as you were saying, Bessie is set in the 30s and 40s.
Upcoming Novel 'Thea': Themes of Change and Family Dynamics
00:40:58
Speaker
Night Town or Maddie, which it is now known as. And Thea is set in the 60s and the early 70s. And Thea is set in the very end of the 20th century, so in the 90s. Yeah, it focuses on a young woman, she's only 20, she's thinking about transitioning into a man back then. So to actually tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, I go in and start heavy doing research on that. I think I'm very interested in the trans movement. And I've noticed from talking to people at the different bookstores that I've read at, and they've asked about it, when I tell them about this,
00:41:40
Speaker
I don't get any hatred or disgust. I get genuine interest because they don't understand. And they only want to understand. They don't know how to talk to people. They don't know what to call them. They don't know what they're doing. They don't know why they're doing it. So that's sort of informing the fiction. But yeah, but anyway, back when I was first thinking about this third book, it was about AIDS.
00:42:05
Speaker
architecture and Alzheimer's because the father figure returns again. He's in all his name is the Theodore or Teddy and Teddy has suffering from advanced dementia.
00:42:18
Speaker
So it's going to be really interesting trying to write it. I haven't even figured out which voice. I think I'm going to use first person and split it up, but I'm throwing them all in together into this house. So it's going to kind of assume somewhat of almost sound maybe read like a play perhaps. I hope not. But I'll see. I'll see. Yeah. and But yeah. Yeah. Oh, really interesting subject matter. Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. Yeah. That's great.
00:42:46
Speaker
Well, I, all I can say is because, you know, I'm a, I hate the word lead span. I hate it. It sounds like a fungus. I'm going to get hate mail for this, but you know, as a member of the LGBTQRSTWXY and whatever community, you know, I'm, um, I'm interested in writing about it because I think people really don't know. So that is definitely a subtext in all three of the novels. That's really cool. Thank you, Mark. Yeah, that's, that's, and I love the fact that you're,
00:43:16
Speaker
bringing in the AIDS epidemic to that conversation because that's such an important thing that was happening in the 80s and 90s. And apparently everyone's forgot about it because young people aren't using condoms anymore, which is bizarre to me, but yeah. Oh yeah. Don't get me going about that. Yeah, sorry. I, that's a tangent. I'm right.
00:43:40
Speaker
No, no, no, no, you're right. There's a lot of unsafe sex happening again, because there's drugs available for it. And my nephew is of the same ilk as I and oh, he got one hell of an old lady lecture for me. Yeah. it but You know, I had a friend over for dinner the other day and he was talking about his son who was in his first relationship and I said, well, has he had his HPV vaccination?
00:44:08
Speaker
And it's like, I don't think so. i like well Everyone needs to do that. Like all need to get that. Cause I would have killed for that back in the day. Yeah. Everyone would have if they knew, you know. Yeah. they Gonna end up with a wonky Peter. Exactly. Or a weird woohoo. Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:34
Speaker
Well, I admire both of you for tackling subjects in which you both entertain and inform the readers about important subjects. Well, well, thank you. But remember what Sir Philip Sydney once said, the purpose of art is? Do you guys know? I can think of a few answers, but I don't know what he would have said. Did he say to educate? It's yeah. It's to instruct and delight. Yeah.
00:45:03
Speaker
That's the purpose of art. I would say the purpose of art is to inspire. That's what I would say. Yeah, but you're not Sir Philip Sidney and neither am I. I have a copy of that. Yeah. Yeah. So sort of the reason. but A good note to end on, I think. But let me ask you both ah any final thoughts, ah Kathy, on music and the work that you're doing?
00:45:27
Speaker
Just keep on keeping on. Mark, can you top that? No, I think everyone should read Kathy's books. It sounds to me like they're freaking awesome and I haven't read them yet and I will. Kathy Bond, thank you for being on our podcast, Recreative. Hey, thank you guys so much for inviting me. It's been a lot of fun. Both fits.
00:46:12
Speaker
You've been listening to Recreative, a podcast about creativity and the works that inspire it. Recreative is produced by Mark Rainer and Joe Mahoney for Donovan Street Press, Inc., in association with Monkey Joy Press. Technical production of music by Joe Mahoney, web design by Mark Rainer.
00:46:31
Speaker
You can support this podcast by checking out our guests' work, listening to their music, purchasing their books, watching their shows, and so on. You can find out more about each guest in all of our past episodes by visiting recreative dot.ca. That's re-creative.ca. You can contact us by emailing joe mohoney at donovanstreetpress dot.com. We'd love to hear from you. Thanks for listening.