Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to episode 147 of Outnumber the Podcast. In this episode, we are tackling the subject of kids who tattle on each other. If you have more than one child, you know what we're talking about.
Speaker: and how annoying it can be. So in this episode, we're gonna cover some of the reasons why kids are tattling. Then we're gonna give you five tools to help solve all that tattling. If you enjoyed episode 38 on sibling rivalry, you're gonna love this.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to Outnumbered the Podcast. I'm Audrey. And I'm Bonnie. We are experienced moms to a combined total of 19 children. In our weekly episodes, we explore relatable topics using our perspectives of humor and chaos. Tune in for advice and encouragement to gain more joy in your parenting journey.
Speaker: Hey everybody, welcome back. We are not super excited to talk about what we're talking about today, but we think you're probably super excited to hear us talk about it. So if you've ever heard a kid say in this exact tone of voice, mom, then you know what today's episode is going to be about. It's going to be about tattling.
Speaker: That's right, that's right. Here's a, I got two funny stories to go with this topic because we probably all have so many eye rolling stories about kids saddling, right? But the first one is that my two year old wasn't speaking a lot. He just hit that phase where just words started exploding out of him. And one of the very first things he said to me was, so it, there's a big rule at my house that nobody drinks out of mom's water because otherwise it's just communal drinking fountain and all the germs are all over us disgusting.
Speaker: Cause mine's the only one that's always filled up and cold, right? Anyway, so I'm standing at the counter looking at my two -year -old and I guess my 10 -year -old had snuck behind me and grabbed my water and started sneaking a drink out of it. And my two -year -old says, mom, Vivi, mom, wah, wah.
Speaker: perfect tattle tone. Like he was busting her for getting my water and it was like just the tone made us laugh so hard because he knew exactly how to tattle on the sibling. It was just with this cadence of voice, right? And then I've had multiple children come to me in tears and say,
Speaker: Mom, it's not fair. So -and -so is tattling. You know, like, tattling on a tattle, Taylor. I'm like, oh, man, if only you could understand the irony of this, it would be so much better. But oh, it's pretty universal. Every kid tattles.
Speaker: Yes, I know. A kid who tattles, it's like so annoying to me. I don't know. I just feel like it's a waste of my time or something. I don't know. I just have struggled so hard to have patience to work through some of the things we're going to talk about, the tools we're trying to build in our kids when they're just tattling and tattling. But maybe you find yourself in this position too. So we put together some tools and ideas and we're going to hope this episode is very helpful to you.
Speaker: Yes. We will discuss why kids tattle both good and bad reasons. I mean, we kind of think that if it's quote unquote good tattling, it's more like reporting, right? There are some instances where we want our kids to come tell us what's going on, but also the bad tattling. And then share some tools with you to help your kids get over this really annoying phase.
Speaker: So I think why I dislike tattling at the very root of it is that I have to referee between two kids that I love. And I really want both of them to win and be happy. And when someone's tattling, it's like I have to deal with the problem and I have to also deal with the kid who's tattling. Like there's an issue on both sides that I have to deal with. And I don't like to referee between two kids that I love.
Speaker: And also, I just really want to see friendships being built between my kids, not not rivalry and not the whole control power, you know, all these things we're going to get into. So, yeah, I just I think that's the basic reason why I dislike tattling so much. Well, your reason is a lot more empathetic than mine is.
Speaker: I just get really annoyed at that voice. I let myself get annoyed. But on a deeper level, I think... Taddling bothers me because I see it as an easy out from having to solve their own problems. So instead of saying, hey, I didn't like that you did this and having a conversation back and forth, what we're trying to train them, you know, these problem solving skills, they just go, Mom.
Speaker: And I'm supposed to solve it all. I'm like, I'm not always gonna be here to be your referee. Like you say, I'm not gonna do the hard work of you repairing your relationship and getting to a place where you can both understand and love each other. So you guys have to do it. And they also come to me because they just want me to mete out justice, right? They feel like something is unfair and so mom's gonna get you in trouble kind of a thing. And so trying to teach them the justice and the mercy and the coming together to find a solution.
Speaker: Yeah, I think in families like ours where we do have a big age spread, it does get a little bit more, oh, I don't know, maybe some gray area, a little bit trickier because the kids have to, like sometimes the older kids have authority to speak in moms.
Speaker: voice or in moms, you know, like you know that mom would say that this isn't allowed, right? So, you know, kind of sometimes they have to carry a message from mom or in your stead. And so, you know, then then it's like you want them to see the difference between that and going to mom for justice. Like, does that make any sense? Yeah, totally, totally.
Speaker: Okay, so moving into some good reasons why kids tattle. And really, like you said, this is really more like reporting. Like we want our kids to come and tell us about something that they're scared about. Definitely. They're scared and that's a reason, you know, Timmy's way up at the top of a tree and he's about to fall. Yes, I definitely need to know that.
Speaker: That's a scared or a dangerous situation. Like, um, mom, you know, my sister's playing with matches in, you know, somewhere. And yes, I need that kind of information, that kind of reporting, because that's something that's dangerous or, you know, something that's scary. Um, illegal, definitely need to know in those kinds of situations we need to, that kind of,
Speaker: you know, reporting to happen. And then one thing that we always want to work, I think everybody wants to work into their kids, the understanding that if someone says not to make sure not to tell your mom, that is the trigger words that immediately send them to their parents so that they do come and tell because that's the kind of situations where you can get some really horrible
Speaker: Things happening and and so we want our kids to learn the difference between the things that they need to be telling their parents not and you know about siblings or about friends or about Relatives or about situations. We we need them to quote -unquote tattle sometimes and those you know, just definite caveat. We need our kids to learn When it's good tattle when we need to know
Speaker: Right. All right. I know I've shared this story before, but we had a recent not. Let me start that over.
Speaker: I know I've shared this before, but one time when we had a review of our family safety rules, we mentioned that if someone says, do not tell your parents, that's a warning sign saying that they're doing something that mom and dad definitely need to know about. And maybe two days later, a friend said that, and a child came to me and said, you know, I remember that you taught us. And thankfully, we stepped in when something could have gone bad. But yeah, lots of really good instances that you shared about when we want our kids to be reporting and telling us.
Speaker: I would say, and we'll talk a little bit more about this, but I would say one of the big differences between when I want my children to report to me versus when I want them to figure it out on their own is, does an adult need to be involved? And granted, that's a maturity thing that they're figuring out, right? When they're three, they think mom and dad are the only people that can solve all their problems. But as they mature and get a little bit older, they learn, oh, this is something that I need to take care of on my own. This is something that is not a safety issue. It's not a danger issue. It's a relationship issue that we can figure out.
Speaker: And there is that paradox, right, of wanting our kids to confide in us when things are important and weighing on their mind, but not every time somebody sticks their tongue out at them, because then they will never stop talking about all the things their sibling's doing that annoys them.
Speaker: I know. I know. They think they have this buddy relationship with you after they tell you something that you really thank them. Well, thank you for bringing that to me. That was really important that I know that. And then the next time I'm like, yeah, and also my sister stuck her tongue out at me. You're going to want to know about that too. It really hurt my feelings.
Speaker: Because they don't have the ability yet to separate really, you know, if my feelings are hurt, then that matters at all times. And it does. Like we talked a lot about this on our episode about kids who whine and about validating their feelings and helping them work through that kind of thing. But yeah, just helping them learn the difference between things that are going to hurt them or others and things that really just aren't.
Speaker: I know, I know. One thing I've been saying to my kids recently is, so they'll say, mom. And I'll say to them, do you realize that every time, you know, you're two rooms away and something's not going right and you yell, mom, that you're yelling at me? Like mom is my name. Like you call me mom. So what if every time I wanted your attention, I said,
Speaker: Johnny, you don't like that. And they were like, oh, oh, you wouldn't like it if I talked to you like that. So don't start your conversation with me as mom, because that's just my name and I don't like my name being said like that. My mom had a line that she would say when we were kids, stop momming me.
Speaker: And usually try to rat somebody out, right? So a few of the bad reasons that kids title or rather the reasons that we want to kind of train them out of are trying to get someone in trouble. That's a big one, right? It's usually that they've gotten their feelings hurt. There's some sense of injustice and they want someone to pay.
Speaker: They want your attention, right? Especially if other kids are getting a lot of your attention that way, then maybe they'll kind of come up and say, oh yeah, and this happened to me too. You know, feel sorry for me kind of a thing. Sometimes they just feel spiteful towards their siblings or friends. And very often it's just a learned behavior, especially like Audrey and I are saying, and families like ours, the younger kids are like, the two year old. Oh, I know that when somebody gets in trouble, I just do this whiny voice and tell mom and that person's gonna get busted.
Speaker: Yeah, that's right. You know, like that spite thing, like maybe a kid wouldn't tattle in a situation, but they remember that, oh, when I did something, you tattle on me. So now I have a, you know, a situation where I get to tattle on you and get you in trouble. Right? Payback time. I know, I know. Other reasons kids want to
Speaker: kids end up tattling is they feel powerless. They don't feel like they can fix the situation themselves. They have a very strong sense of what's right and wrong, and they want to control people around them into adhering to their sense of what's right and wrong.
Speaker: Um, another one is yeah, just that learned behavior. I guess you already said that, but it just like they don't, it's almost like they don't have any other tool in their toolbox. If we can, if we run to their rescue all the time and fix the problem for them. Yeah. And they're not just learning from siblings and friends.
Speaker: I don't know if your kids ever watched the show Phineas and Ferb. Right at the beginning, the big sister is known for being the tattletale. And she goes, mom. And I'm like, my kids quote that all the time. And it's all hilarious until they start tattling on each other just in the exact same way. I'm like, dang, TV. Thankfully, my kids have never watched that show. It is hilarious, I will say.
Speaker: And the last one is like, they just have a lack of problem solving skills. Like, you know, for the four year old, the easiest way to fix her problem is by, you know, mom and mom comes and works on it for her rather than having to learn problem solving skills herself. Um, so those are some other reasons why kids are, are tattling. And we kind of had to put these down in quantifiable things before we could develop and identify what tools we use, because we need to know why they're doing what they're doing.
Speaker: before we can start helping him have tools to stop doing that. Right. And like I mentioned before, I have realized just through developing this episode that it is my job to train my kids to know when to involve mom and when not to. And this is really a higher level skill and one that they will use as an adult as well. They will need to get to a point where they can
Speaker: figure out whether a car accident is serious enough to call the authorities or not or whether, you know, vandalism happens or, you know what I mean? Or when to go to a manager versus just figuring something out with a fellow coworker. And it's something that's going to take a little bit of time for them to figure out. But we get to step by step teach them, hey, did you see that? You guys figured this out on your own. I'm so proud of you. This other situation, I did need to get involved. Why do you think that was different? You know, I'm just kind of talking it out.
Speaker: And ironically, I just had to put myself on mute because I had a kid in my room tattling on their sibling. So. Perfect. Thanks, kid. Good timing. Yeah, I should have left it. I should have left it not on mute, right? You totally should have. I just had two of them since we started recording. So I think a third one's coming. Great. All right. Keep going.
Speaker: Oh, all right. So now that we've talked about why they might be doing this tattling thing, run into mom to get mom to fix the problem, we want to talk about some tools that we've identified that we can use to help our kids solve their tattling. And we've got five good ones for you. So the first one that I like to use is I call it Use Your Words. So a kid will come to me and tattle and I will say to them,
Speaker: Did you use your words? How did you try to fix this yourself before you came to me? Like what did you say to them? So this is what they did. And what did you say? Use your words. That's the first tool. It's just use your words.
Speaker: Yes, this is such a good one. I have noticed in some of my children, especially talking about our previous episodes, our episode on impulse control, my little one who has the biggest struggle with impulse control, her first reaction is to yell mom when something bad goes down. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I was like three rooms away. Why are you yelling at me? Because she gets so upset that she just has to let it out. And she either screams at the sibling or she yells for mom.
Speaker: And I think that in those instances, it's okay for her to go freak out somewhere and then come back. Because sometimes they're not in the right frame of mind to work through it, but they can do that. They can get to that point where they can use their own words and say, hey, give that back to me. And another child likes to come complain to me before she's ever mentioned to the sibling that they did something wrong, right? So they'll take a toy or something and she'll come run right to me and I'll say, you know, I was kind of watching that exchange. Did you even tell them that you were playing with that first?
Speaker: Well, no, but they saw me. I'm like, well, maybe they didn't. Run on back and just say, hey, I had that first kind of have it back. Maybe that will solve the problem. Sometimes it does. Let's just try to talk it out first, right? Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, second tip is to help your children identify the thoughts and feelings that are causing the tattling, right? So they'll come up and say things like, it's not fair, or I don't deserve this, he never gets this kind of a thing, or she's not being nice, she's being so mean. So this is when our beloved life coaching can come in, right? And we've taught our kids the model before to say, okay, why are you saying things like it's not fair?
Speaker: because this thought is causing a lot of anxiety. How can we back this up and decide, I'm gonna choose to look at the situation in a different way, right? And again, higher level stuff might not work for the four -year -old every time, but you can still have them stop and think for a minute about what they're trying to get out of the situation, right? You want the toy back, you want him to be punished, like what is the purpose of our tattling here? Let's figure out the root cause and how we can find a solution that makes everybody happy.
Speaker: Yes, this tool is so effective with kids that are old enough to think about thinking a little bit. Yeah. And so, yeah, just like we were again talking about in our episode on kids who whine, just validate their feelings. So they come to you and they're all upset and say, she's not being nice. And so you say, you know what, if I had that thought that somebody wasn't being nice to me, I would feel
Speaker: I would probably feel the exact same way that you do and that they're kind of like, oh, okay, deep breath. Okay, my feelings were just validated. And so you acknowledge that, yeah, if I was thinking that thought, I would probably be feeling that feeling. So then you can start encouraging them to maybe think different thoughts and
Speaker: to explore it from a different angle. But I've found that you almost always have to validate and identify with them before you can get them to move out of that thought space, especially with a little kid. Yeah, yeah. All right. The third tip
Speaker: that we try to use with our kids is encourage them to think of solutions themselves. And what I like to do is have my kids try to think of more than one solution. So almost immediately the, you know, the first solution is, well, they need to give it back, you know, if it's a toy taken or something like that. That's why they're they're tattling, that's the solution they want. Say, okay, all right, that's one solution. And what would be another solution that would fix this problem?
Speaker: And then, you know, like, for example, one that I come and get is, well, she's looking at me mean I don't like the way she's looking at me. OK, the one and what's the solution to that? Well, they need to stop looking at me like that. OK, that's one solution. What is another solution? And they try to, you know, they try to think up something and you can say, well, wouldn't another solution be if you just stopped looking at them because then you couldn't see how they're looking at you?
Speaker: Oh, yeah. You know, that kind of thing. So you can help them out. Think of, in every situation, there's more than one solution. And so when you encourage them to think of more than one solution, a different one from the one that they've brought to you, which is mom step in and bring justice to the situation. Then that's just, even if in the end, mom steps in and brings justice to the situation, that's encouraging them to build those problem -solving skills themselves.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, totally. And again, this is a great place for the slightly older children to say, you know, what if that person never changed? What if she never stopped looking at you funny? What if he never stopped taking your toy? How could you change your own thinking and reactions to still be happy?
Speaker: Maybe you could just say, I'm going to go find something else. I mean, to a certain extent, we also want our children to be able to stand up for themselves and say, hey, that wasn't fair. But to train them to know that crappy stuff is always going to happen, but they get to decide how to react to it. And that is a really, really powerful thing. And you might not see the fruits of those teachings for several years, but I'm seeing that in my teenagers. My teenager's like, huh, I can freak out on this kid or I can just move on because it's not worth it, right? Yeah.
Speaker: So, pretty powerful stuff. And then number four, we like to teach our children to try to think of the situation from the other person's point of view, right? The golden rule. If this were happening to you, how would you react? I actually just had a little altercation between two kids, the eight -year -old and the 12 -year -old, which, you know, the 12 -year -old's like three times his size, so I really expected better being here. But the last little act, that's how it goes. And just saying, hey,
Speaker: Think about if you were in his position or if you were in her position. Sure, he did this really annoying thing. But, you know, who's going to stop, right? We can just go back and forth and back and forth in our fights until the house falls apart. Or you guys really hate each other. But if we could stop for one minute and try to show a little bit of empathy and think how frustrated they must have been when this thing happened or how angry they must have been when, you know, you took that thing again or chucked a grape out of her or whatever it was, I don't know.
Speaker: That is such a higher level and Christ -like tool to give them to think about how their actions are affecting another person.
Speaker: Yes, yes, so that's even, yeah, higher level is right. That's not only thinking about your own thinking, that's thinking about other people's thinking as well. Yeah, yeah. Which is, yeah, which is really getting out there, but definitely like, so as part of, I like to include it in the problem solving part and say, so what do you, this, so now we've identified what you're thinking about this. What do you think the other person is thinking about this situation? And then,
Speaker: That takes a little bit of thought as well. But then if you were that person, what would you be thinking right now? And they can usually, even very young, they can usually come up with some kind of answer. And like you, I just think it's so healthy for kids to start thinking about what other people are thinking. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It makes for very unselfish children. And in the world we live in today, that's going to be kind of a rare thing. Yeah, and more and more necessary. Yeah.
Speaker: So the fifth tool that we like to encourage our kids, and we were just talking about this in our recent episode on family vision, is we like to encourage our kids to think about future friendship with the person that they're tattling on. So we have a goal in our family that in 20 years we're all friends and we like to hang out with each other. And so I'll say to this, usually the two that are fighting are the one that's tattling
Speaker: Is this helping you and your sibling be friends in the future when you come and tell me instead of trying to work it out with them? Because friends usually try to work things out together. So is this working on your future friendship and kind of put them back in that big picture goal that, yes, she stuck her tongue at you, but
Speaker: When you're 20 years old, you know, when you're 23 years old and she's 30, are you going to really like, are you going to care? Is that going to stop you from being friends? Can you fix that? Can you work on that friendship? Now, even though today you feel like they're not trying to work on their side of the friendship, can you still keep trying to work on your side of the friendship?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, that's a great way to think about it. There really is only so much you can control and most of it starts and ends with you, you know? And brings us right back to that family vision that we recently talked about and that you're bringing up quite often in our podcast that we're all headed towards the same future goal, hopefully, and that is to love and accept each other the way we are and enjoy each other's company in the future. So we got to start now.
Speaker: And finally, I just think it's so important that we remember that, yes, our kids are going to tattle. Yes, they're going to do annoying things. But we get to have the power to train them to have a better way, right? To say, hey, thank you. So we can even start from gratitude and abundance, right? Thank you so much for coming to me with this problem. I'm so glad that you trust me to help fix it. What do you think we should do?
Speaker: You know, and you walk them through this one scenario at a time, and then they get to the point where they feel empowered enough to take care of it themselves. I mean, are we gonna eliminate tattling 100 %? I doubt it. And if you figure it out, please call me and tell me how you managed to do that. But by giving them the tools little by little, they will gradually get better. And a lot of this is just maturity, right? They just, as they get older, they learn to problem solve just a little bit better. And in the meantime, you know, well, maybe a few bribes can't hurt.
Speaker: You can figure this out on your own. I'll give you a bribe. Yeah, I have two kind of final thoughts here. First of all, I wanted to mention that we have episode 38, Unsibling Rivalry. It is one of our most popular episodes. Interestingly, it shot up to like in the top five during COVID and quarantine when everyone was shut in. So, you know.
Speaker: Very interesting. No, I'm just kidding. So yeah, go re -listen to that one if you haven't recently. But my second thought here is,
Speaker: I want to be a person. I need to, first of all, examine the way that I react to my kid who's tattling. Because I want to remember that my kid is approaching me with this problem because they trust me to be able to solve their problems for them. And yes, I do want to teach them problem solving skills. I don't want to follow them around when they're in their 20s and solve their problems for them. I'm not going to be doing that.
Speaker: but I want to now when they're young and feeling powerless or you know working on their sense of right and wrong I want to be careful and control my own
Speaker: responses to their tattling, even if the way they're doing is annoying, even if the frequency is getting me just really in rage mode. Like I need to examine my own thoughts and keep in mind that these little creatures, these little human beings are trusting me to be able to solve their problems for them. And that's a pretty high honor because they're not taking that to anybody else. And so just first in my own mind, I need to be
Speaker: to be in the space where I encourage a continued trust in my ability to help them and work with them and have a good relationship with them. Because it's not just that I want my kids to be friends in 20 years. I want to be friends with my kids who are good friends in 20 years. And that starts now. Because with my adult children, I've stepped out of the role of mom. And they don't come to tell me anything anymore. They don't need me to fix their problems.
Speaker: that just doesn't exist anymore and now we have a different relationship and it was built on those things that were being
Speaker: being put in place trust and confidence while I was having to work through those tattle issues as well. So I need to be the adult and keep in mind that, yes, this tallying is getting on my nerves, but I also need to keep that 20 year friendship goal in mind. Oh, you always have a beautiful way of looking at things. I love that.
Speaker: All right, so we hope this episode has been helpful to you. If your kids are driving you crazy with their tattling, you're not alone. We're there too. We're in that space too. And try some of these tips. Let us know which ones you like, which if you have some that you like, use those and tell us about those because we want to know those too. We want to add more tools to our toolbox to yank out when we've got some little tattler hollering out, mom.
Speaker: Thanks for listening friends. Click the link in the show notes to subscribe to our email and never miss another episode. Show us some love by leaving a review on iTunes or sharing the podcast with a friend. Thanks for all your support. We'll talk to you next week.
Speaker: I know I had new vendors and I messed up their names today. And I was like, Hey, I can't even remember my own kid's name. And I just met you last week. Please give me grace here. And I'll tell you my kid's name. So if I call you one of those, just know you're part of the family. Okay. Here I go.
