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#166 - Chloe Seager
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Director of Children's and YA, literary agent and author, Chloe Seager is back! Tune in for a fascinating episode discussing some of the behind the scenes of publishing, how Chloe approaches the industry and how she fits new authors into her list.
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Transcript
Summer Submissions and Publishing Trends
00:00:00
Speaker
To listen without ads, head over to patreon.com slash right and wrong.
00:00:04
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question.
00:00:06
Speaker
I love it.
00:00:07
Speaker
Because the writing is sort of everything, right?
00:00:09
Speaker
Like you can fix plot holes, but if the writer... So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this.
00:00:15
Speaker
So it's kind of, it's kind of a gamble.
00:00:18
Speaker
Yeah, I know.
00:00:20
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Those were the days when we had all the holidays.
00:00:22
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That was nice.
00:00:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:24
Speaker
I didn't even realize how much it was until you become an adult and you don't get them anymore.
00:00:28
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Yeah.
00:00:29
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Although having said that, publishing does kind of shut down for the summer.
00:00:32
Speaker
So I, I, even though I am still technically here, I really enjoy the summer holiday vibes of publishing.
00:00:38
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Okay.
00:00:39
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That's interesting.
00:00:40
Speaker
July and August is kind of like no one would submit anything in August.
00:00:44
Speaker
To editors.
00:00:45
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To editors.
00:00:46
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I always tell authors to submit to me in the summer because that's when I'm like, ah, relaxing.
00:00:52
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I'm going to have written submissions and find something for Frankfurt.
00:00:55
Speaker
It's a great time to submit to agents.
00:00:57
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:00:58
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I'd also heard February was a good time.
00:01:01
Speaker
February for me is wild.
00:01:02
Speaker
Like that's when I'm, I normally sign stuff kind of in the quieter period.
00:01:07
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I mean, this just might be me.
00:01:08
Speaker
I don't know how other agents work, but I think I signed stuff a lot over the summer to kind of get ready for Frankfurt.
00:01:15
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And then after Frankfurt, when it quietens down again in the Christmas period, I find I sign stuff in November that then I go out with in sort of February, March for the next round of book fairs.
00:01:24
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:01:25
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:01:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:27
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So, yeah, I feel like the quieter periods for me are when I'm like really focused on submissions.
00:01:32
Speaker
That said, one of my authors, Laura Steven, she submitted to me sort of the, I don't know, maybe the day before the book fair or the weekend before.
00:01:40
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And I read it overnight and offered.
00:01:42
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So if I really love something, book fair is not going to affect me.
00:01:46
Speaker
But, yeah, I think largely when you're sorting through the piles, book fair subs don't get kind of looked at as quickly.
00:01:55
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Yeah.
00:01:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:58
Speaker
You know what?
00:01:59
Speaker
That was great.
00:02:00
Speaker
I'm going to keep it, but let me do the introduction.
Introducing Chloe Seeger and Her Work
00:02:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast.
00:02:09
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On today's episode, we have a returning guest.
00:02:11
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She is a literary agent and author and the director of Children's and YA at Madeleine Milburn.
00:02:17
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It's Chloe Seeger.
00:02:18
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Welcome back.
00:02:20
Speaker
What an introduction.
00:02:20
Speaker
Thank you.
00:02:23
Speaker
Before we get into the agent stuff for real, the industry stuff, let's kick things off with the fact that somehow between everything else that you've got going on, you have a new novel out.
00:02:35
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Oh yeah, I do.
00:02:37
Speaker
Even you forgot.
00:02:40
Speaker
It's called Open Minded.
00:02:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:43
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It's out in the UK and it's coming out in the US later this year.
00:02:47
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So that's fun.
00:02:48
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Tell us about it.
00:02:50
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It is about, it's an adult rom-com.
00:02:52
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So I'm betraying children for Moyet.
00:02:56
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So it's about these two women who are kind of in opposite situations.
00:02:59
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So you've got Holly, who has been with her partner for nine years, and then her boyfriend out of the blue, she thinks he's going to propose.
00:03:07
Speaker
And then he asks her for an open relationship.
00:03:09
Speaker
And then on the other hand, you've got Fliss, who's been in an open relationship with her partner for three years.
00:03:14
Speaker
And then he unexpectedly asked her to close it.
00:03:18
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And then they meet in a lady's bathroom and kind of realize they're in polar opposite situations and agree to help each other and become friends.
00:03:27
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And it kind of charts their romantic dramas and their friendships.
00:03:33
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Okay.
00:03:34
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That's such a fun and unique set of circumstances to set your kind of story and your hijinks up.
00:03:41
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It was fun to write.
00:03:42
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It must have been quite a departure because your previous novels, the Emma Nash stories, very much YA and for younger audiences.
From YA to Adult Fiction: A Literary Journey
00:03:51
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Yeah, I feel like though, even though it's...
00:03:55
Speaker
kind of older audience, it's similar stuff.
00:03:57
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I mean, I like writing about messy, funny women.
00:04:01
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So whether I'm writing about them for teens or, you know, in their late twenties, that's the vibe is similar.
00:04:10
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:04:11
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Was it strange for you sort of stepping outside of the, the, the YA market, which is obviously one that you're very familiar with in like various capacities and kind of moving into an adult space?
00:04:24
Speaker
it was I feel like I've sort of grown up alongside my writing so not too strange because I do obviously read adult books on my own time as well if I just read I love children's and YA books but if I read them all the time I might start to emotionally regress to school age yeah I do because I you know my reading tastes outside of work I'll read some I love an adult rom-com so it didn't feel like too much of a departure um
00:04:51
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But I think it's, it's the kind of stuff where I'm like, oh, I'm allowed to swear or like talk about sex and it's fine.
00:04:58
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Um, so that was interesting.
00:05:00
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I guess it offers like a, a kind of degree of separation where you, if you're writing in that space, you're, you're kind of working in a slightly different space and you don't have as much crossover.
00:05:11
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Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:12
Speaker
I actually find that, I mean, I still love to read Children's and YA on my own time, but it's also nice to read stuff that doesn't feel like work.
00:05:20
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So I've become a real granddad in my reading taste.
00:05:23
Speaker
I read a lot of nonfiction these days.
00:05:28
Speaker
I just finished Unruly by David Mitchell, The History of England's Kings and Queens, which I know it's David Mitchell, but still made me feel like a granddad.
00:05:37
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And I'm reading Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker.
00:05:40
Speaker
And before that, I was reading like Empire of Pain and Bad Blood.
00:05:45
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So yeah, like really the kind of, I've gone down a nonfiction rabbit hole a little bit recently.
00:05:53
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That's interesting.
00:05:54
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I mean, a huge change of pace from YA and MG as well.
00:05:58
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Yeah.
00:06:00
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Yeah, no, it's nice then to feel like you're not at work.
00:06:03
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I also have different reading habits for different formats.
00:06:06
Speaker
So I've been listening to a lot of stuff on audiobook recently, just because, again, like it's something you can fit in when you're walking around or on the tube.
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And I think nonfiction really lends itself to audiobook.
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Speaker
So I've been listening to a lot of stuff.
00:06:20
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Yeah, I can understand that.
The Crossover Genre and Its Market
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But this doesn't signify any kind of idea that you might be starting an adult list.
00:06:29
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Oh, absolutely not.
00:06:31
Speaker
I mean, having said that, the YA markets and the adult markets are really blurring at the moment.
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So I've been sending a lot of stuff.
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Speaker
I mean, it's so interesting because a couple of years ago,
00:06:43
Speaker
certain books I was sending out would only have gone to YA imprints.
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And now my sub lists have broadened incredibly.
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So I just had the Lex, the new Lex Croucher book that was announced, the Unlogical Life of Briar Jones.
00:06:59
Speaker
So that ended up going to YA and adult imprints.
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And actually in the end,
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we did sell to glance, which is an adult imprint.
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Speaker
Um, but yeah, they're being published by Wednesday books, um, in the U S which is very much crossover.
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And we had both, we had 10 publishers in for that and they were both adult and YA in.
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So, um, it's happening more and more.
00:07:20
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I've got something at auction at the moment that we're expecting the first bids in for tomorrow.
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And again, like it's just sold in a big preempt to an adult imprint in the States.
00:07:31
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But we had YA publishers interested as well.
00:07:33
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And tomorrow I've got pretty much an even split of YA adult people landing.
00:07:38
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So I think that market is really becoming quite
00:07:42
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quite blurred.
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Yeah.
00:07:45
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Kind of maybe not great for YA publishers because all the adult publishers are coming in and stealing, stealing YA authors.
00:07:53
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But I think it's great for YA because it's really broadening, broadening the reach.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:59
Speaker
And I want to pick up on a couple of things you mentioned there.
00:08:01
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First of all, crossover.
00:08:05
Speaker
I am still not entirely sure what that means.
00:08:07
Speaker
Like where does the, you know, one end and one begin and is like, it's its own thing or how do you define crossover?
00:08:15
Speaker
It's so hard to define it's, and it's different for every book.
00:08:19
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So for instance, with Lex, it's, it's again, they're one of those writers where it's actually really hard to pigeonhole the writing.
00:08:28
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Because the humor, there is like a lightness of touch and a humor which feels very young and almost, and there's nothing super sexy in it.
00:08:36
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It's like a 12 year old could read it.
00:08:38
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But also I think that that, especially with the new one, it's that kind of Harry Potter, but make it queer and like kind of, you know, political takedown, kind of making fun of establishments like Eton and political satire that kind of make it quite grown up.
00:08:57
Speaker
So I think for that book, it straddles a lot of different lanes, but the tone can still be quite young.
00:09:05
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But I think, you know, people in their 30s will be doing, will love it as well for lots of different reasons.
00:09:12
Speaker
And then the one I've just gone out with, actually, I would say is maybe quite YA in certain ways in the content, but then the tone is quite sophisticated.
00:09:24
Speaker
So I think...
00:09:25
Speaker
it could just be different for each book, but I, I know crossover when I see it.
00:09:30
Speaker
Um, I think so.
00:09:34
Speaker
What I'm, what I'm getting from that is that it's, it's different, but you can identify in the, it's to do with the themes, the, the subject matter, the characters and the kind of style and the voice.
00:09:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:46
Speaker
The tone.
00:09:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:47
Speaker
Yeah, they can kind of be from either adult or young adult in any combination.
00:09:52
Speaker
But if both are present and they're merged together, that's crossover, kind of.
00:09:58
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:09:59
Speaker
And I think sometimes I get something in which I feel strongly, depending on the concept, should be aged down or up.
00:10:08
Speaker
And then there's certain things.
00:10:10
Speaker
So, for instance, we just with Laura's recent adult deal, because obviously she has a YA publisher already.
00:10:17
Speaker
We wanted to make sure that the books were really distinct because we want there to be a different audience there.
00:10:25
Speaker
And I think actually then we ended up kind of adding in some stuff to make sure that it was different.
00:10:33
Speaker
definitely adult.
00:10:35
Speaker
So there'd be some crossover in the audiences for Our Infinite Fates and for Silver Cloak, but that they wouldn't be kind of competing each other with each other too much, or that it wouldn't feel like they weren't distinct from each other.
00:10:50
Speaker
I think it can be hard enough authors to be setting up a YA strand and an adult strand when there's so much crossover in the readership.
00:10:57
Speaker
So for instance, I think the first draft of that, it didn't have a kind of
00:11:02
Speaker
pleasure pain based magic system.
00:11:04
Speaker
And then we read the first draft and I was like, I think we should age this up.
00:11:07
Speaker
And then Laura came up with that idea, which was incredible.
00:11:11
Speaker
And I think definitely made it something that couldn't be published on a YA list.
00:11:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:18
Speaker
That's totally, you know, Laura's work.
00:11:22
Speaker
This tone of this definitely is older, but I think her tone often sits in that kind of crossover space.
00:11:28
Speaker
So trying to age down one of her strands and age up another can be more about content.
00:11:34
Speaker
It sounds like a fine balance.
00:11:36
Speaker
And I imagine the editors have to be kind of very aware of
00:11:41
Speaker
I guess both age groups that this is appealing to that.
00:11:44
Speaker
If there's not necessarily age groups, but straddling from YA up to adult as an editor, that must be quite a lot to just make sure those threads do work together alongside, you know, whatever the author's vision is.
00:11:57
Speaker
Well, I think it's easier for adult publishers to publish down because they are not kind of trying to establish, I guess, a trusted brand with the schools and libraries market.
00:12:09
Speaker
So, you know, with an adult publisher publishing YA...
00:12:13
Speaker
I guess they have room to make it a bit older in a way that they're not then necessarily saying, oh, teenagers should be reading this, but teenagers can still read it.
00:12:25
Speaker
Whereas I think it's really difficult for a YA publisher maybe to be publishing stuff on a YA imprint that has some of that older content in it, because then you're going to teachers and parents and librarians and saying,
00:12:40
Speaker
this is fine for teenagers, which isn't kind of necessarily true.
00:12:44
Speaker
Although they might be reading it.
00:12:46
Speaker
It's not something, some of these things are not something we can actually market to them, whether or not they choose to read it in their own time.
Understanding Book Auctions and Release Strategies
00:12:53
Speaker
You know, it's kind of outside of us, but yeah, I think that's why we're, I think we're probably going to see a lot of new adult imprints spring up maybe from children's publishers as well.
00:13:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:06
Speaker
So is new adult the same as crossover?
00:13:10
Speaker
Yes, I would say so.
00:13:11
Speaker
I think it's just a term that fell out of fashion for a while and now people are using it again.
00:13:17
Speaker
I hear it being bandied around now.
00:13:20
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:13:21
Speaker
That, for me at least, gave me some clarity on what people are talking about when they do say cross-up.
00:13:26
Speaker
Because I kind of vaguely knew what it was and I wasn't entirely sure, but that did clear some things up.
00:13:30
Speaker
I also wanted to pick up on something else you mentioned.
00:13:33
Speaker
You said you had another thing waiting to go to auction.
00:13:36
Speaker
Yes.
00:13:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:37
Speaker
I've got about 10 offers coming in tomorrow for something.
00:13:40
Speaker
So that's fun.
00:13:41
Speaker
This is Bologna Book Fair time.
00:13:43
Speaker
So my question actually is more about the logistics of we, you know, anyone who goes in the bookseller, you read about these very exciting deals that will go to auction, however many it is.
00:13:54
Speaker
What, what actually happens in a book auction?
00:13:56
Speaker
Like what are the logistics of a book auction?
00:13:59
Speaker
Well, it's different every time.
00:14:04
Speaker
So it depends on the number of,
00:14:06
Speaker
And depends as well on the author and how available they are to meet or if they have a clear sense of how they want to be published, if that makes sense.
00:14:15
Speaker
So the author I've got tomorrow, she's got quite a busy work schedule.
00:14:21
Speaker
So we've got space for four meetings on Tuesday.
00:14:25
Speaker
So we'll be whittling kind of 10 plus offers down based on the first offers to four meetings.
00:14:31
Speaker
So people will be knocked out based on their opening bids.
00:14:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:37
Speaker
Sometimes if we've got lots of offers coming in, I will just say, just put an offer in to throw your hat in the ring and then we'll do rounds.
00:14:44
Speaker
And then at some point, you know, you have to whittle it down for the author because they can't really meet 10 publishers.
00:14:51
Speaker
It's not realistic.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:14:54
Speaker
Then what we do as well, when there's that many in is obviously it does...
00:14:58
Speaker
become about money to some degree, the finances are going to be a factor, but we always reserve the right that the author can pick the publisher they want to go with, even if their offer wasn't financially the highest.
00:15:13
Speaker
So it's, you know, it is about money, but it's about the passion and the vision as well.
00:15:17
Speaker
And we get pitches through when we meet with publicity and marketing and, you know, talk to the publishers about their vision and what they want to do with the book.
00:15:25
Speaker
And that stuff is all really important too.
00:15:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:29
Speaker
And then presumably you and the author will, after having all the meetings, go back and in private kind of have a discussion and kind of weigh up all the different proposals and things like that.
00:15:39
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:15:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:41
Speaker
Wow.
00:15:42
Speaker
Sounds exciting.
00:15:43
Speaker
I mean, because it's kind of like a reversal of the usual power dynamic, right?
00:15:47
Speaker
Where you're submitting to the publishers and then suddenly the publishers are all coming to you.
00:15:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:52
Speaker
We have all the power until the project is sold and then we relinquish it again.
00:15:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:59
Speaker
A lot of back and forth in this industry.
00:16:01
Speaker
Well, it's kind of the same for authors submitting to agents, isn't it?
00:16:04
Speaker
Like when there's 10 agents after something, suddenly the power is in the author's hands.
00:16:10
Speaker
Yeah, the power and the pressure.
00:16:12
Speaker
The power and the pressure, yeah.
00:16:14
Speaker
The imposter syndrome must kick in there.
00:16:16
Speaker
I know for authors, it's such a prevalent thing and they must be like, oh, but what if I made the wrong decision?
00:16:21
Speaker
What if I should have come with the other editor?
00:16:24
Speaker
I think that's the kind of curse, actually, of having almost too many options.
00:16:29
Speaker
I mean, it's a nice problem to have, isn't it?
00:16:32
Speaker
But I do sometimes think when you've got 10 publishers in, if things don't go, you know, maybe as hoped, you always think, oh, maybe that publisher was the right one.
00:16:42
Speaker
But to be honest, when there's 10 publishers in or there's that many people who want it, I think whoever buys it is going to make a success of it.
00:16:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:50
Speaker
Yes.
00:16:51
Speaker
You would hope so.
00:16:53
Speaker
And, um, and it sounds like you're on, you're on a hell of a streak.
00:16:55
Speaker
Honestly, it feels like every time I check on the bookseller, I feel like there's a good chance I'm going to see Chloe has signed another deal with, with, you know, another auction, another lots of people.
00:17:06
Speaker
In fact, I looked at your Instagram this morning before we, before we came on just this, just this month you had four book deal.
00:17:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:16
Speaker
Well, thank you.
00:17:18
Speaker
That's lovely.
00:17:18
Speaker
But the bookseller, because they all announce stuff around the fairs, it does give you a slightly skewed impression of how many deals I'm doing.
00:17:28
Speaker
So, you know, for instance, the Claire Hatcher deal that was just announced the other day, I did that last year.
00:17:33
Speaker
Oh, right.
00:17:34
Speaker
I did that a whole full year ago.
00:17:36
Speaker
So last book fair.
00:17:38
Speaker
it's kind of an open secret that they, that this is the thing.
00:17:41
Speaker
And it's like, yeah, we all wait until the book fairs before we announce all these deals.
00:17:45
Speaker
What's the, what's the reasoning behind that?
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:49
Speaker
So it's interesting because on the adult side, they actually send things to the bookseller.
00:17:55
Speaker
They release, release the press release a lot faster.
00:17:59
Speaker
So often in adult, I will do something, you know, and then a few weeks later, the publishers will want to announce it.
00:18:07
Speaker
In kids, it's a little different.
00:18:08
Speaker
They often want to wait until there's like a moment.
00:18:14
Speaker
So for instance,
00:18:15
Speaker
that one that was announced the other day, it was World Down Syndrome Day.
00:18:18
Speaker
And obviously the protagonist has Down Syndrome.
00:18:20
Speaker
So that was a really nice connection they wanted to go for.
00:18:24
Speaker
Sometimes they want to wait until there's a cover or a package so that it will encourage people to pre-order more along with the announcement.
00:18:33
Speaker
Whereas in adult, the announcement is just kind of a moment of its own that happens quite quickly.
00:18:37
Speaker
But in kids in YA, you can be waiting for years to announce something, sometimes until a few months before it comes out.
00:18:45
Speaker
Oh, I hadn't realized that it was actually much quicker for adult publishing.
00:18:50
Speaker
And obviously it's still not immediate, I would imagine.
00:18:53
Speaker
But yeah, I hadn't realized it was more of a children's thing, that the delays happen and they really hold off on these announcements.
00:19:00
Speaker
Yeah, definitely more of a children's thing.
00:19:02
Speaker
I think because often there's illustrations and a package to consider in a slightly different way.
00:19:09
Speaker
Also, I think just because it is a smaller market and the sales are more challenging, it's a challenging market to break through in.
00:19:16
Speaker
It's so clogged up by big brands that I think it's something publishers want to do to kind of galvanize sales and use the announcement in that way.
00:19:24
Speaker
Whereas in adult publishing, they don't really need to do that.
00:19:28
Speaker
No, because it's just the much broader audience that they're appealing to.
00:19:31
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:19:34
Speaker
Also got to mention, you have been shortlisted for the British Book Awards Literary Agent of the Year.
00:19:40
Speaker
Congratulations.
00:19:41
Speaker
I have.
00:19:42
Speaker
Thank you.
00:19:43
Speaker
Yes, it's very exciting.
00:19:45
Speaker
And it doesn't stop there because I'm right, I think one of your authors, Katie Kirby, also has been shortlisted.
00:19:51
Speaker
Yes, Katie Kirby is indeed up for Children's Book of the Year, which is very exciting.
00:19:56
Speaker
I'm really happy for her because those books have been selling like hotcakes actually since 2021.
00:20:02
Speaker
So it's great to see her kind of getting this recognition now.
00:20:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:07
Speaker
I mean, that's, it's amazing.
00:20:08
Speaker
All this success.
00:20:10
Speaker
And I did mention at the beginning of the episode, but when you first came on, you were a literary agent at Madeleine Milburn.
00:20:17
Speaker
You are now director of children's and YA at Madeleine Milburn.
00:20:22
Speaker
You are on an amazing trajectory.
00:20:25
Speaker
When did we do the last podcast?
00:20:26
Speaker
I can't remember.
00:20:28
Speaker
I think it was two years ago.
00:20:30
Speaker
Two years ago.
00:20:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:31
Speaker
I feel like a lot's changed in two years actually.
00:20:33
Speaker
It might have been more than that.
00:20:36
Speaker
It was a long time ago, for sure.
Current Trends in Publishing and Marketing
00:20:39
Speaker
Things have definitely skyrocketed in the last couple of years.
00:20:44
Speaker
It's been busy.
00:20:45
Speaker
I mean, the industry just itself has changed a lot too.
00:20:48
Speaker
I've heard a lot about the kind of how big audiobooks have become in the last few years versus like physical books and like e-books are getting bigger and bigger every year and things like that.
00:20:58
Speaker
Definitely.
00:20:58
Speaker
I think we probably have the pandemic to thank for that with audio books.
00:21:04
Speaker
And then I think, and I mean, for me in particular, the rise of YA has just been incredible to see over the last couple of years.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:12
Speaker
And a lot of that's to do with TikTok.
00:21:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:15
Speaker
And things I was selling at a kind of a certain financial level that if, you know, a couple of years ago, if I sent out now would get much bigger deals.
00:21:25
Speaker
It's really interesting.
00:21:27
Speaker
That's so interesting.
00:21:28
Speaker
And just a reminder that so much of this industry is about Zeitgeist and having the right story at the right time, not just for like the publisher or the, or the, whoever it might be, the editor, but for the kind of, for the world, you know, for the market.
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:43
Speaker
And trends come around.
00:21:45
Speaker
I mean, I've just been in publishing long enough to see a few, a few cycles at this point.
00:21:50
Speaker
So it's so funny, like stuff, you know, five years ago that we were all, we were all like,
00:21:57
Speaker
No, no vampires.
00:21:58
Speaker
And now everyone just wants vampires again.
00:22:00
Speaker
So yeah.
00:22:03
Speaker
I have heard that.
00:22:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:04
Speaker
It's been long enough since Twilight that vampires are back.
00:22:07
Speaker
Vampires are back.
00:22:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:11
Speaker
Going back, speaking of when you first came on, it's been a long time since then.
00:22:15
Speaker
I imagine you would have signed a number of authors between then and now.
Managing Author Lists and Career Growth
00:22:20
Speaker
Do you know roughly how many authors you represent?
00:22:23
Speaker
Gosh, how many did I have last time we spoke?
00:22:25
Speaker
Do you remember?
00:22:27
Speaker
I don't know.
00:22:28
Speaker
I don't know if I even asked to be honest.
00:22:30
Speaker
Um, but I imagine it would be a lot fewer.
00:22:33
Speaker
It's been at least two years.
00:22:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:35
Speaker
I think now I have somewhere between 40 and 50.
00:22:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:40
Speaker
And as, as your list grows, does it make signing new writers and stories more difficult?
00:22:48
Speaker
Is it kind of a much greater consideration?
00:22:51
Speaker
Yeah, it does.
00:22:52
Speaker
I think realistically, I sign less people now, but I'm still always the kind of agent who's always going to be on the hunt for something that I really fall in love with.
00:23:04
Speaker
Because signing something, you know, pulling something out of the pile, finding something you really love and you think can go big is one of the most exciting parts of the job.
00:23:12
Speaker
And I, you know, it's a part I love.
00:23:14
Speaker
It is something that as you have clients, you know, to look after, more clients to look after, you have to do less of, but it's still something I love.
00:23:21
Speaker
I just have to be a bit more considered about it now.
00:23:24
Speaker
So I would say now I kind of look for one thing.
00:23:28
Speaker
per book fair, really.
00:23:30
Speaker
So I would say... And limit yourself there.
00:23:32
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:23:33
Speaker
So this year, I mean, end of last year, I took on two new authors who are my kind of Bologna books, a middle grade and a YA, just because I really fell in love with both of them.
00:23:42
Speaker
And then I haven't signed anyone this year, but I have space for something I really love at Frankfurt.
00:23:49
Speaker
So if I find something for Frankfurt that I'm obsessed with, I'll go for it.
00:23:54
Speaker
I think it's nice for me.
00:23:56
Speaker
I'm in the position where I don't have to be signing stuff now.
00:24:00
Speaker
So if I don't find something for Frankfurt, that's also fine.
00:24:05
Speaker
But I have the space for something.
00:24:08
Speaker
it's so interesting that you, you are like planning ahead to reserve space in your kind of schedule and your list for, it's like, Oh, I can fit a book in now.
00:24:18
Speaker
So if I find something I I'm allowed to put it on the list, you know, that's, that's such a funny, it's also not something I really thought about before, but yeah, I guess, I guess you have to be sensible and practical about that kind of thing when you, you know, your list is, is large now and, you know,
00:24:33
Speaker
I guess you're at a point where it's not necessarily about how much you like something.
00:24:39
Speaker
Obviously that's important, but you might not have the right shaped kind of space in your, in your list because you can't be competing with yourself basically.
00:24:48
Speaker
Oh yeah, absolutely.
00:24:49
Speaker
And it's tough because as an agent, your taste is your taste.
00:24:53
Speaker
So it's like, because we've got the WhisperX launch party tonight and that's out tomorrow, which is really exciting.
00:25:00
Speaker
And I love kind of Gothic middle grade, like in that kind of area, obviously because I have Jordan, it's sort of that thing of, I can't have too much stuff in that space.
00:25:12
Speaker
I can't be, you know, as you say, kind of cannibalizing my own sales.
00:25:16
Speaker
So it's more about finding stuff that is sort of, that I love because I love that space, but it feels a bit different to the stuff I've already got.
00:25:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:26
Speaker
Which is quite a hard line to tread actually.
00:25:29
Speaker
Yeah, I can imagine so.
00:25:30
Speaker
Because I got an advert the other day on Instagram and Instagram's figured out that I like fantasy.
00:25:36
Speaker
And it gave me this advert for this book, which I'm assuming was self-published.
00:25:40
Speaker
And it said, Mistborn meets the name of the wind.
00:25:43
Speaker
And any fantasy readers listening will know that those are two books that are remarkably similar.
00:25:48
Speaker
This is like describing a movie as James Bond meets Mission Impossible.
00:25:53
Speaker
And to me, I was just like, but why would I want that?
00:25:57
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:25:58
Speaker
Both of those exist and they're both great.
00:26:01
Speaker
Why would I want something in the middle of that?
00:26:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:04
Speaker
Yeah, true.
00:26:05
Speaker
And I guess that's what you're thinking about when you're looking at things where you're like, I can have two things which have similar themes and similar kind of concepts, but as long as they're distinct enough, I can represent them.
00:26:17
Speaker
But they can't be exactly the same.
00:26:18
Speaker
I mean, it's so funny because, I mean, Maddie B pointed out to me the other day, she was like, you love a demon pact, don't you?
00:26:23
Speaker
We all put a demon pact.
00:26:25
Speaker
And then I looked and I was like, oh my God, you're right.
00:26:27
Speaker
I've got like three demon pact books coming out.
00:26:31
Speaker
And then I was like, all right, no more pact with demons for me.
00:26:34
Speaker
So there's certain things where, yeah, you're just... Otherwise, especially for my rights team as well, because I have to consider for them, they're selling my stuff internationally.
International Sales and Global Branding
00:26:44
Speaker
I might be able to find a publisher who missed out on something I sold.
00:26:49
Speaker
You know, for instance, this book, Tomorrow, there's 10 publishers.
00:26:52
Speaker
Obviously, only one's going to get it.
00:26:53
Speaker
There'll be nine people who might want something in that space.
00:26:57
Speaker
But then...
00:26:59
Speaker
it's kind of whether I can represent all of those books.
00:27:03
Speaker
And also then my rights team will be focusing on those books internationally.
00:27:07
Speaker
And then if we have a list that's essentially really similar books over and over, that's not very good for people's international sales either.
00:27:15
Speaker
And I think actually authors don't really see that in that side of things.
00:27:19
Speaker
I mean, no one thinks about the kind of international rights side of it.
00:27:24
Speaker
when they're subbing.
00:27:24
Speaker
But that's also quite an important piece for children in YA and all books, really.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yes.
00:27:30
Speaker
Especially kids in YA.
00:27:32
Speaker
I was speaking to my friends who are authors and it's always, it's very exciting when you get a message from your agent or whoever it might be that's saying like, oh, we just sold in Germany or we just sold the rights in France or wherever it might be.
00:27:45
Speaker
Because financially it represents, you know, quite a lot of money.
00:27:48
Speaker
But at the same time, it shows that there's the appetite for your writing and for your novel in a whole entire market that obviously might have never experienced the author.
00:28:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:02
Speaker
And I think building that global brand is something that can be really career solidifying for an author.
00:28:10
Speaker
And it's something that all publishers want.
00:28:13
Speaker
I mean, in children's, publishers are especially obsessed with it.
00:28:16
Speaker
They'll always want to go for world rights because building that global brand is so important to them for their sales.
00:28:23
Speaker
And I think in children's, it's kind of, you know, if something really takes off, it
00:28:29
Speaker
it can be that huge global brand and kids all over the world will just want more of the same thing.
00:28:33
Speaker
So yeah, it's something that kids publishers are really invested in.
00:28:38
Speaker
Oh, that's interesting.
00:28:39
Speaker
A quick question before we, before we return to the desert Island, uh, when you, when you do sign with a new author, um, when you kind of, when you're kind of first meeting with them and talking to them and planning things out, are you looking at,
00:28:54
Speaker
on a sort of long-term career stuff?
00:28:57
Speaker
Or do you try and keep it simple and say, okay, let's find a deal.
00:29:02
Speaker
Once that's sorted, we come to the next bridge.
00:29:04
Speaker
We cross that bridge when we come to it.
00:29:07
Speaker
I definitely like to know what people's ultimate career vision is.
00:29:13
Speaker
And then that's how I could help map away, you know, towards that.
00:29:17
Speaker
I think, for instance, with Laura, I always knew she wanted a YA and an adult strand set up.
00:29:23
Speaker
so that I needed to know that in order to, we didn't send her YA to adult publishers and we didn't send her adult to YA publishers, you know?
00:29:34
Speaker
So we kept the strands very distinct.
00:29:36
Speaker
If I hadn't had that initial conversation with her, then, you know, I wouldn't have known that from the beginning.
00:29:42
Speaker
So I think I do like to know what people want.
00:29:45
Speaker
At the same time, it is very dependent on what happens.
00:29:49
Speaker
You know, I think we can have a lot of,
00:29:53
Speaker
big dreams and we always want to make them happen, but it does depend step by step.
00:29:58
Speaker
You know, if you have one book and it doesn't go so well, the best thing to do might be to pivot and write in a completely different genre, or it might be to keep going in the same genre, but right under a different name.
00:30:09
Speaker
So whilst I can't always plan exactly what's going to happen, I like to know what people want to happen, if that makes sense.
00:30:18
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:18
Speaker
I mean, it sounds like it's a bit of both really.
00:30:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's a bit of both.
00:30:22
Speaker
Let's talk about what could happen, like where we could go, where we would like to go.
00:30:26
Speaker
But at the same time, you can't just run to the finish line.
00:30:29
Speaker
There are hurdles in the way and we have to take each hurdle one at a time.
00:30:32
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:30:33
Speaker
Exactly.
00:30:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:30:36
Speaker
So returning to the desert island last time, which was a long time ago, your pick for the desert island was, and I quote, one of my Austens.
Desert Island Picks: Chloe's Favorite Book
00:30:47
Speaker
Would that still be your choice?
00:30:50
Speaker
Oh my God, you know what?
00:30:51
Speaker
I think, I think maybe it would.
00:30:54
Speaker
I just think she's so funny and she's so comforting.
00:30:58
Speaker
And I think whilst there are loads of other different genres that I love reading, there's just something about, you know, humor and comfort and characters that feel real that you'd want to have on a desert island.
00:31:11
Speaker
So it would probably be Pride and Prejudice.
00:31:14
Speaker
I'm just going to be that basic.
00:31:16
Speaker
Well, that was my next question was going to be, well, you didn't specify last time, but so if you specify it would be Pride and Prejudice.
00:31:21
Speaker
Yeah, it probably would.
00:31:23
Speaker
It probably would.
00:31:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:24
Speaker
It's that thing that I can rewatch the BBC adaptation of that every Christmas and never be bored.
00:31:29
Speaker
And I just think, you know, there are so many books I love, but would I want to read them, you know, every year?
00:31:36
Speaker
No, but with those, I can.
00:31:39
Speaker
Are you a BBC over the Keira Knightley version?
00:31:44
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:31:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:45
Speaker
BBC all the way.
00:31:48
Speaker
Colin Firth.
00:31:51
Speaker
Amazing.
00:31:52
Speaker
I've got some more questions coming up about specific things that Chloe is looking for, popular trends, the idea of concept is king and a little bit about AI, but we are now at the end of the regular episode and into the extended cut exclusive to Patreon subscribers.
00:32:05
Speaker
So anyone listening who hasn't yet joined the Patreon, please do think about it.
00:32:08
Speaker
It goes a long way towards covering the costs of running this podcast.
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:13
Speaker
Amazing.
00:32:13
Speaker
Well, we can end on that rather confusing note.
00:32:17
Speaker
Thank you so much, Chloe, for coming on the podcast and chatting with me again.
00:32:21
Speaker
It's been really, really fun catching up with you, hearing about all the things that you're doing and you sharing with us some of the insights from the other side of the curtain of publishing.
00:32:30
Speaker
It's been really fascinating.
00:32:32
Speaker
Thanks so much, Jamie.
00:32:33
Speaker
It was great to chat.
00:32:35
Speaker
And for anyone listening, if you are wanting to keep up with what Chloe is doing, you can follow her on Twitter at Chloe Seeger or on Instagram at Chloe N Seeger.
00:32:45
Speaker
If you're thinking about submitting to Chloe or any of the other agents at Madeleine Milburn, head over to the website and there is a form submission page, which makes it all very simple and easy.
00:32:56
Speaker
So you can't
00:32:57
Speaker
get it wrong to support the podcast like follow subscribe on your podcast platform of choice and follow along on socials join the patreon for extended episodes ad free and a week early and check out my other podcasts the chosen ones and other tropes thanks again to chloe and thanks to everyone listening we'll catch you on the next episode