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Episode 5: The Roots of TimberNook with Angela Hanscom
21 Plays5 days ago
Join us as we sit down with TimberNook founder and CEO Angela Hanscom, MOT, OTR/L to explore how her idea of bringing back the occupation of child-led outdoor play grew into a global movement reshaping the way therapists, teachers, and families support children’s development.
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Transcript
Introduction of Angela Hanscom
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to The Nook, everybody. I'm your host, Camden. And I'm Morgan. And today we have a very special guest. We have the founder of Timber Nook, Angela Hanscom. Yes, we're so excited to be joined by ceo and founder Angela Hanscom. She holds a master's degree in occupational therapy and an undergraduate degree in kinesiology.
00:00:23
Speaker
She's also the author of the book, Balanced and Barefoot, How Unrestricted Outdoor Play Makes for Strong, Competent, and Capable Children, which discusses the effects of restricted movement and lack of outdoor playtime on many areas of development in children.
00:00:37
Speaker
So thank you so much for joining us. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Of course. and Before we get into the deep discussions of Timber Nook, we're going to break it open with a little joke. What is a tree's least favorite season or month, I should say.
00:00:51
Speaker
Fall? Close. it's it's a It's a month, not a season. I messed it up the first time. at least favorite month. Least favorite month. Oh my gosh. was close.
00:01:02
Speaker
Is in the fall? It is. Um...
00:01:08
Speaker
i I actually have no idea. I'm going through all the months. in September. Oh, that's really funny. Sure. It was. It was good. It was good. Thank you. Okay. Should we jump right into it? Yeah, let's do it.
Motivation Behind Timber Nook
00:01:23
Speaker
Okay, Angie. We want to know what inspired you to create Timber Nook. Like where did that first idea come from? Oh boy. So it really, it wasn't really an idea. It was more of a series of events that happened in my life. um And, you know, as an occupational therapist, I was working in all different settings.
00:01:44
Speaker
I worked in um home health with preemies. I worked in schools, worked in hospitals. But it wasn't until I was working in a like a therapy clinic that I started to really pay attention to what was happening with children. For instance, I remember having a little boy come in one time that didn't like wind in his face. And i remember thinking like, how do I treat that in a clinic setting? Do I get a fan and blow the fan on the child? um a lot of kids not wanting to come in, but didn't want to get their fingers dirty, didn't want glue on their fingers. But the number one issue we were starting to see was that um kids were starting to become more and more clumsy at the time.
00:02:23
Speaker
And so I remember being in a um ah workshop where the occupational therapist looked at us and said, kids are not rolling down the hills anymore. and They're not spinning in circles. She's like, the number one thing you're going to have to treat is balance.
Challenges in Current School Systems
00:02:38
Speaker
And so so that started, I just started paying attention to some of the sensory issues. And then I had my second daughter, um Charlotte, and I actually wanted to stay home um with both ah with both girls and not work. I i had no plans, actually, to to go back to work anytime soon. But I um ended up joining a mom's group because that was kind of the thing to do at the time. And I had a couple friends ask me, again, interesting questions. Like, why is my child spinning in circles all the time? You know, what's going on here?
00:03:12
Speaker
um Another one said, my son is having trouble paying attention in preschool. You know, why is that? And, um you know, just interesting questions and thinking, you know, preschool isn't that play? Like, why are they supposed to be paying attention and sitting?
00:03:27
Speaker
And then my oldest, it was time for kindergarten, and she just turned five. And I remember um the teacher meeting with us ahead a time and saying, this is not kindergarten. Like you guys remember growing up, this will be more like first grade. She said, my husband's going to pre-cut everything at nighttime so we don't have to worry about cutting skills.
00:03:46
Speaker
um If they can't tie their shoes, put elastic laces or Velcro on. ah Five minutes for snack. And she said, but if that gets in the way curriculum, um they'll have to eat their snack while they do their paperwork. 15 minutes for recess.
00:04:01
Speaker
And she said, but if that, um when it snows, um it will be an indoor recess because we don't have time for to change your children into their snow gear. So this whole theme of no time for developmental skills kept popping up. Mm-hmm. And as an occupational therapist that worked on developmental skills, you know, this didn't sit right with me. So I really, i really, um i knew i wanted to do something to help children. i wasn't quite sure yet until I also was starting to pay attention to that to the the fact that there was not lot children playing outdoors. So we live on 12 acres of woods.
00:04:37
Speaker
um That's where Timmerdek originated. um And at the time, we would take a shortcut through the neighborhood to get to our property. And I remember just one day thinking, you know where are the kids? Why are there not kids biking to each other's home? Where are they? um i grew up in Vermont. And um I remember being out until the lights went off type thing. So...
00:05:00
Speaker
I knew I wanted to get kids outdoors around that time. um I thought it was in the form of nature classes until I ran a nature class and I had a parent come up to me asking, you know, can you tell me why the leaves change color? Tell my son why the leaves change color. And i was like, I have no idea why the leaves change color. And so I was trying to remember from my science classes in high school. and And, um you know, and I was like, it gave me an opportunity to to reflect on, you know, what is my background? I'm not a teacher. I'm not environmentalist or a naturalist. And really at the time, those were the professionals running nature programming. In fact...
00:05:37
Speaker
they still are running out of the nature programs. yeah And so I, you know, over the years, what I've learned is, you know, but you know, where is my place here and, um, really reflected on this.
00:05:50
Speaker
And what I've come to realize, as many occupational therapists do is that play is the main occupation of children and outdoor play is an incredibly meaningful one.
Unique Approach of Timber Nook
00:06:01
Speaker
That's really at risk.
00:06:02
Speaker
right now in ways that we never anticipated and that's affecting development in all different interesting ways so that's that was just the beginning of me thinking about doing something at the time yeah um to get kids outdoors yeah absolutely yeah yeah And so how would you, now that we've gone through all these steps of, you know, how this progressed into Timber Nook, how would you explain to somebody what Timber Nook really is? Like somebody who's never heard of it before, how could we, know?
00:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, so Timber Nook really is a very authentic outdoor play experience. And we try to create it as um real as possible for children. So they're very, um we use the environment to inspire higher levels of play. For instance, we might do the story Three Little Pigs. And then out in the woods, um we'll have bales of hay and sticks and bricks. And maybe there's wolf masks. And then after we read the story, we'll tell them, now you have the opportunity to create you know your own three little pig homes. And so then the children have hours to do so. And whether they they create a three little pig home or not is really their choice because um true play is a choice. And so they might create wolf clans and you know howl on the rocks. I don't know. But... um you know But the the beautiful thing is they dive really deep into play, and that's where all the good stuff is being worked on, all the developmental skills, yeah like you know social-emotional um skills and communication and fine motor and gross motor.
00:07:50
Speaker
yeah That was Morgan and I's first Timberneck. That's where you first met was the three little pegs. Yes. Yes. That was a great curriculum. Yeah, that was one um why Why is it so important to have a long extended period of time when you're playing rather than those 15 minute recesses? What is it that changes?
00:08:11
Speaker
Yes, great question. It's really important to have um a longer play period for two reasons. One is, um and I hear this from a lot of teachers where um they only have 20 minute recess sessions, is that when kids come back into recess, that often they're more um dysregulated, hyper, um having a hard time paying attention. And the reason for that is If you're sitting for a good majority of the day, um which we know they are, ah the most recent research research I heard about is that kids are in America, are in chairs about nine hours a day. so that's a lot of ah seat time. And so they're already feeling fidgety, and then you let them out. And what happens is um their arousal level, activity levels up here, and then it goes up.
00:08:59
Speaker
um So in 20 minutes, now they're up here. And so their teachers are having to dim the lights, play calming music to regulate them and using time after their short recess to regulate them. So it takes a good 45 minutes to an hour for them to be regulated and ready to pay attention in the classroom.
00:09:19
Speaker
um The other major thing that's going on is that kids um just, it takes time to figure out who am I going to play with? What am I going to play?
00:09:30
Speaker
And then to dive deep into that play scheme. And so in 20 minutes, you're figuring out who am i going to play with? What am I going play? And then the bell rings. We interviewed ah kids years ago about that. And they said, we're just getting to the good part. And then the bell rings. Mm-hmm.
00:09:45
Speaker
I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. It was so frustrating. We'd be out at recess and we'd just be starting to have fun, really get into it. And they'd call us in. We'd say, can we have some more time? No.
00:09:56
Speaker
So we'd go back inside and that's the thing. You're like still in it. You're moving around, have all that energy, and then you're getting in trouble for not paying attention, tipping in your chair, whatever, you know. i mean, I was always tipping my chair. Yeah. Yeah. Still do sometimes, but
Benefits of Nature Play
00:10:12
Speaker
now that I'm at Timber Nook, I don't do it.
00:10:14
Speaker
um And then what is kind of what we talked about a little bit earlier, why is it so important that not only to have that amount of play, but for it to be out in nature rather than in a gym or just out on a parking lot, you know?
00:10:29
Speaker
Yeah. So nature is really the ultimate sensory experience. So when you um think about being in a room versus being like on the beach or out in the woods, I often ask people like what senses are engaged when you step outdoors? Yeah. And I always hear things like, well, um you know, you feel the wind, you feel, um you smell different smells out there, bird sounds. Even just stepping outdoors, the ground is uneven. yeah So you are constantly challenging your balance. and Whereas indoors, it's all level. So you don't you have to think about it much. So when you step outdoors, multiple synapses are firing in the brain and your chances for that organization are going to be higher. Yeah. um Also, if you look in our OT books, ideal state for sensory integration, that organization of the brain to lay, you know, lays the foundation. um
00:11:21
Speaker
for learning basically, um is to be in a calm but alert state of mind. So even just looking at the colors outside, you'll see like what, greens and browns, blues, and those are very calming stimuli. You go for a massage and you hear you know nature sounds, it's very calming. There's a reason why doctors say bring your babies outside. But you have to be alert, right? Because the ground is uneven, you have to pay attention, an animal might run by, So you're in this calm alert state of mind. So we want to think about what percentage of time are children in an environment conducive conducive to that organization? And then what percentage of time are they in environment that could be dysregulating or disorganizing?
00:12:04
Speaker
And i often think about a lot of our classrooms where, you know, there's a lot of posters on the walls that could be visually distracting to children. Mm-hmm. Also, being in close proximity to other children in the classroom, that can be kind of disorganizing, too. um Whereas out in the woods, children can, you'll often notice that they'll play away from each other, right? Mm-hmm. And get space. And um that regulation of emotions and activity levels is going to be, that there's a higher chance of that out there. Mm-hmm. Even the noise levels are different when you step indoors yeah versus outside.
00:12:40
Speaker
And then lastly, like transitions, right? So in the school day, there's a lot of transitioning. Like every 45 minutes to an hour, you're switching. And that often when kids have sensory issues, there's often um you know anxiety with that and you switching all the time. Transitions can be really hard and disorganizing. Yep, I see it all the time as a teacher, especially with the really young kids. um They have a lot of issues. Every time we transition, many of them will start crying and they'll throw themselves on the ground and throw a temper tantrum. And so I see it all the time firsthand. It's crazy.
00:13:14
Speaker
um I remember when I was a freshman in high school, specifically in this math class, like you were saying earlier, like we we want the ambience of outside. Right. So I remember every single time I was sitting in that class, I'd be, I'd have my head like this. I'd be looking out the window because the window is next to me. Yep.
00:13:30
Speaker
Like the whole class. So yeah, it's definitely true. Like we desire to be outside. I actually have a story from today. we had a field trip out at Timbrennock of a little boy that we've, we've seen three times now. So a lot, some of our schools that do field trips come out, um, monthly and I've watched this little boy, they started coming out in the winter.
00:13:52
Speaker
um And this little boy, the first time he came out, would get dysregulated. Every time he fell at Timber Nook, he would have a fit. um He also, like, he would fall on his back in the snow, and he was like, help me. like And he and ne wanted a teacher to do it. Yeah. And what was interesting is um every time he's come, um he's gotten better. like he um And today was really cool because he um worked with another little boy to carry a ladder. like and he And resilience was another thing. like He didn't want to help clean up. He didn't want to like move his body that much. And today he was um working hard to bring a ladder all the way across the woods with a little boy that the teacher said he actually um fights with in the classroom. And so like she was like to see him work with another child. um And then he fell.
00:14:43
Speaker
So he fell and he was stuck almost in between the ladder. um And I was like, it'll be interesting to see you know if he has um you know a meltdown. But he didn't. he He moved his body. He used a rock, pulled himself up, and it went turned around, picked up the ladder again, and kept going. And I was like, whoa. And then um they propped the ladder up against the rock. And the teacher was like, I don't think he's going to be able to get up there.
00:15:09
Speaker
um And I was like, well, let's see. And so he watched all the other kids get up on the big boulder. And then he, without even thinking, he went up on the rock and looked down. And then he was a little unsteady, so he sat down. So he was able to know that it's probably safer if I sit. But he was up there for a long time because knew he could do it. It was really neat for the teacher to see he was capable of doing that. It's a big change in just three groups. Yeah, it was really amazing. That's what can happen.
00:15:45
Speaker
with doesn't have It doesn't have to be that you come every single week. Obviously, the more you come, the more benefit. But you see changes even in that short period of time in these kids.
00:15:56
Speaker
Yeah. So we talked about the importance of having a long period of time and having it be out in nature. um But what is it specifically about it being child led rather than adult driven um that makes that so important?
00:16:14
Speaker
Yeah, so um we actually, just to bring some context and stories to it, we talked about that lot with the the field trip out today. So they, again, day one, what happened is when it was cold, a lot of the kids would come seek constant adult reassurance, like, help me, or can you do this for me? And then um the second time they came, it was better. And then today, um they were totally independent, figuring out their own, um,
00:16:43
Speaker
their own solving their own problems. So for instance, going back to that boy, he's up now, he's up on the rock, and there's a bunch of kids up there and there's a ladder, and there's probably too many children on this one boulder. But they were looking at each other, and what was interesting is one kid came forward like a leader and was like, there's too many kids up on this rock right now. So we need to figure out who's going to go down. And they're like he's she's like, raise your hand if you've been up here a long time. so the kids some of the kids confessed. And I couldn't hear what they what their resolution was. But they figured out a system where there was only a certain amount of kids on the rock at a time. And it was something that the teacher like, oh my gosh, they just figured that that out all by themselves. In the classroom, she's like, that doesn't happen. They're not solving their own problems. And she's like, so she was starting to like question, like, are we doing too much for the children? Like, what kind of environment are we creating? um So I thought that was really interesting because, and I told them, I said, well, at Timber Nook, think about what we're doing. we are We are asking you to not be too close to the play. Yeah. Because when you are too close, they are seeking constant adult reassurance. Like, is this okay? Can you do this for me? Or there's more tattling. But when we back up 10, 20 feet and reduce adult presence, we ah we notice that the kids turn to each other to solve their own problems. And and we set that expectation. So a lot of the times, the kids, <unk> when they come up to teacher,
00:18:12
Speaker
the teacher is saying, let's see what you can do. And it's a very different mindset. The kids know at Timber Nook, the adults are not going to do it for me. And they stop going to the adults and start solving their own problems.
Observations and Success Stories
00:18:26
Speaker
Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. um So I know we kind of talked about this a little bit, but what are some of the most, I don't know,
00:18:38
Speaker
um what some of the most important things you see that these kids have in pattern like different patterns that they have with kids who come to timber nook more than once or they come on a regular basis rather than just coming you know once a month or once a year even i just i'm curious to see what are those patterns that you see with those kids Yeah. So one thing, a bunch of things, um you know, one thing we notice is they become more capable on their feet. So like there's a lot of um falling sometimes when they, it's funny because like even like we had an inner city school yesterday.
00:19:17
Speaker
a totally different one, and an inner city school today. And both schools are um private Catholic schools that are on pavement. And so they're not used to any variability in the environment. And there was a lot there's a lot of falling. But getting back up again, um once they get used to it and realize, like, I'm going to be okay. And then they get more over time. It takes a longer, though. I feel like sometimes it takes... um ah good a good portion of half the year, at least like you know for kids to really get more capable and practice. um And we noticed that with our year-round programming that there's less falling. There's also more regulation, like that was an example of that boy that was less crying and less reliance on the adults to solve their problems.
00:20:04
Speaker
um Yesterday was actually the most fascinating one of the most fascinating schools because they most of those kids are in apartments. And they have never some of them never been in the woods to play. So they were really nervous. And it was really interesting because they there's a rope swing out there and there's like one rope structure way down over the hill. And then there's a building area with pallets and bricks and tires and all kind of ladders. So it's pretty appealing for kids to play with that. And then there's also an area where we stage things to inspire play. So we... trying to think of what we did yesterday.
00:20:45
Speaker
Oh, we did Rocks of Boxing. So was a classic, like, you know, kids create their own societies type thing. So they, was interesting, they made a line for the rope swing because they, I'm assuming part of that is because they're used to playground type play. yeah And so they, most of them went the rope swing and created this big line. But we purposely only have that rope swing so that there's not too much playground play out there. We don't have like a bunch of playground equipment because we're trying to prevent that playground play. But what's interesting is one kid went over and grabbed um a flag and was like, we're going to do a game called the land. And so that inspired some other children um to go off to the boulder, like area that's way back. yeah And so once they saw a couple of kids go back there, they started to spread out a little bit. Mm-hmm. It took a long time. No one touched the Home Depot or the building materials for 45 minutes. wow And then um there was one point where a little boy looked around and he's like, ah where's the adults? Like he was really nervous. um But then a little girl um started building for us. So just
00:21:54
Speaker
Come build a fort with us. And it gave him purpose. But within 45 minutes, it was a very quick changeover. They were all playing the land. And played really deep for the rest of the time. One other interesting thing that we saw was at recess, they said the teachers, they have a 40, like a 30 minute, maybe a 45 minute recess. Because they were inspired by reading the book to extend it. but that the kids are getting bored in 25 minutes, 35 minutes, asking to go in because they don't have a lot of play ideas. They don't have a lot practice because, again, apartments, they go recess. There's not a lot there. Parking lot, yeah. Yeah, parking lot. And so they didn't, and that's what we saw is there was not a lot of ideas on how to play out there. But what was interesting is once they figured it out, no one said they were bored, and they were out there for three hours. Wow. That's awesome.
00:22:50
Speaker
That's amazing. Yeah. This kind of goes into our Timber Nook tidbit for today, which um is to ditch your shoes. um Bare feet on natural surfaces are more beneficial than most people realize. The feet are packed with nerve endings that send constant feedback to the brain, and research shows that kids demonstrate improved balance and motor skills through regular barefoot play.
00:23:15
Speaker
Without the structure of a shoe, the small muscles in the feet and angles are doing the work they are designed to do. building strength and stability over time. So this week, find any natural surface, grass, dirt, sand, whatever you got, and kick your shoes off.
00:23:31
Speaker
That was our tidbit for today. Okay. so one thing that Timber Nook, I think, important known for is our or the ability to allow the kids to take age appropriate risk and um how would you define age appropriate risk in the timbernut context when we talk about it yeah how would you define it what do we mean by that
00:24:02
Speaker
Yeah, i think I think maybe the term might be ah that I look through is like reasonable risk-taking for for that particular child because um each each child could be completely different even if they're the same age. So would say the way that we kind of assess risk is watching children, that particular child, and watch them very closely to see like how they're maneuvering um different situations like the giant boulders is always makes um adults nervous right watching them guilty yeah we've even had toddlers up there and be completely capable and then we've had some toddlers that they're not quite ready for that um we've had older kids like we've just talked about the example of the little boy who had to sit down he was like i'm not he's not quite there yet yeah um So I think watching the child, watching, are they assessing risk properly? So that boy to me was assessing his own risk pretty pro- he was doing a good job. Like he sat down, he was like, I'm not quite ready. Um, and for the most part, most children can assess yeah risk and what they're ready for. um
00:25:16
Speaker
so the only, the time that we might go in is when they are not being mindful of other people in their environment. Mm. So they might be assessing their own body, but they're um like, you know, throwing something off the rock and there's other kids down there. And so that would, to me, would be an unreasonable um risk and it becomes a hazard for another child. um You know, or again, it's mostly with other children, and like they're sliding down something, there's a kid right there and they're like going to, or building a fort and it's the rickety and there's a kid going underneath that fort. So.
00:25:52
Speaker
Yeah, and you touched upon it. I think it's so important, the difference between risk and hazard. And it's our job as timber nook providers to make sure that there's no um irrecoverable hazard that's in their environment, but to promote healthy, age-appropriate risk-taking in which kids can kind of make a mistake, recalibrate, recover, and then that process. I talk about it all the time because it's so important to building so many of those vital skills that we talk about. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah. And how would you go about helping parents and teachers and whoever become more comfortable with these kids learning to take these risks? Because I know a lot of caretakers have a problem watching kids learn this. Yeah, it's a great example. um So an example of when i saw I'm such an example person, he has but um of a a reasonable risk. where Where it felt, it did feel a little risky. you know I gotta be honest, it was like, I've been watching Timberwick for 15 years and i i was really paying attention. um was um We had some kids playing on the rope swing and they decided to put a giant spool by the rope swing and climb on the spool. and then But we were watching them and what was interesting is they were testing it ahead of time. So they would throw the rope and be like, okay, it misses the tree.
00:27:14
Speaker
And then what was interesting is there was a group of children and they would put, they put one milk crate on top of the spool and they had one person hold the milk crate, um one person hold the rope and then they had a tree spotter to spot the tree. And then they had another milk crate and they started climbing up that. And this would make most, ah probably most adults are nervous. And then they started, they tested it with just a rope first and then they would go, they had the spotter and they they went three crit milk crates, four milk crates, they went all the way to five milk crates, but they still could reach it. um They had someone holding it and they would assess, the children would come, different kids in sizes and would assess for them. And they ended up being, um
00:28:04
Speaker
totally capable and it was very to me the benefits allowing that risk assessment is um is actually really important because they're learning to manage their own risk they're like this you know we we have different things put in place um we're going to test this out and they can also learn you know um okay maybe i'm not quite ready for that And so um it is important to allow for that because we are actually starting to see um some some kids come for different programming that have been so overprotected that they are taking unreasonable risks. For instance, um we had some kids come
00:28:47
Speaker
this past winter that like were launching themselves off backwards off the rock. like And I was like, this is... And another a boy last year that was going to jump off the rock and he was going to jump into a a fort stick fort and it was like 10, 20 feet up. And so for me, that did not feel like a reasonable risk. And so I went up and I actually, ice stopped him before he went down because I was like, he's clearly going to get hurt. if he And so I'm like, do you think this is a... a wise decision you know like look look below you and he's like oh no um because he didn't he wasn't paying attention yeah and so i'm like you might you might want to have the kids behind you pull you back up so they ended up pulling him back up um and i remember asking i know you had zoe as a guest a couple yeah like months ago And um you know she's the researcher um for Jean Ayres who brought you know sensory integration to the forefront. And I remember asking her about this, like, why why is it in the past just couple of years? I mean, this is a newer thing that we're seeing. this was My book was 10 years ago. This is like in the past one or two years. Why is it that we're starting to see kids take unreasonable risks?
00:29:56
Speaker
Where in the past, like almost always kids could manage that. And she said, well, probably we're starting to overprotect children. um And those kids have been not allowed to fall from a very early age and get back up and to get that internal sense of, um you know, evaluation. Yeah. Kind of like what you were saying earlier with, oh, if your kids can't tie their shoes, get Velcro or put, you know, rubber bands around them. It's there.
00:30:23
Speaker
They go their whole life not thinking there's a worry in the world. And then yeah when they get faced with something real like that, they think they're going to be fine. so yeah that totally makes sense. Yeah, and we're so, actually, you said something once on the Nook about, like, you know, um a child fell, and she she blamed you. And she's like, why did you let me fall? Why did you let me fall? So she was almost turning to this external sense of of risk protection and not using her internal and being like, it's your job to keep me safe. Yeah, and it's the most frustrating thing as a teacher to watch because I'm a teacher, but I'm also timber nooker. So when I see teachers doing that, i'm like, stop. Stop.
00:31:00
Speaker
Or if they're yelling at me for not doing enough, I'm like, it's fine. It'll be all right. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we don't want them to rely on the adults to do it for them. We want them to um get in the car when they're 16 and have a good sense of risk and risk. Exactly. Yeah.
Influence on Children and Families
00:31:19
Speaker
So what have you heard from children or families of children who have been to Timber Nook? We talked a little bit about the patterns that you were seeing, but does that generalize to other parts of their lives? Like what are what are some stories that you've heard from parents of the impact that Timber Nook has made on kids' lives? Yeah.
00:31:43
Speaker
Yeah, so we don't always get to hear all the stories, which I think we should you know reach out more to hear. But from what I hear is that um kids start to want to go play like out in nature more. So, for instance, I've heard over the years that kids might have woods behind them and never played in them before. And then they go to Timber Nook and they ask their mom, like,
00:32:09
Speaker
I want to play in the woods. And so like it sounds so simple, but like just the basics of playing out in nature is one. um Also creativity. like They'll start getting new, um what we call play affordances. So different materials will have new possibilities for them. So they might go and grab containers and use that for creating a band um where they might have not thought of that before. So that creative play is another another big one.
00:32:40
Speaker
um The research that we just got from UNH was very eye-opening because some of those effects I never even thought about. But like... ah Teachers were saying that they were more likely to take risks in the classroom after taking risks out in the outdoor classroom. So that's kind of neat.
00:33:00
Speaker
So risks academically, like trying things that maybe made them feel uncomfortable before like getting out of their comfort zone, which is what they're essentially doing over and over again at Timurda, because they're testing their boundaries. They're like, what else can I do out here? And and they encourage each other to do that. Yeah.
00:33:18
Speaker
It's a safe space for self-exploration, I feel like. Yeah, definitely. And we heard from Joelle that her sense of self that was built and contributed to by Tim Bernuk is something that carries her through many different settings and many different stages of life.
00:33:34
Speaker
And I think we could all... benefit from that for sure. Yeah, absolutely. And what I know you talked about, um, the child with the lad, like he was crying and asking for help and then his story with the ladder, but is there, i want to hear your biggest success story at Timber Nook, like the most heartwarming, best success story you have ever seen out of all your 15 years. Oh my goodness. I feel like they're all so important, yeah even the little things. But I mean, one that was almost miraculous. I mean, it was just crazy was um about it's actually we're doing um hopefully a case study on this at some point. And we have permission to share his story. Can't say his name. But there was a little boy that came for Tim Brunick. It was around the time of COVID. So there was a lot of anxiety at that time. Kids wearing masks. Everyone was wearing masks outdoors, but um even in some programming. But at Tim Brunick, we didn't need to worry about that because they were naturally socially distanced. yeah um And so he
00:34:38
Speaker
went to um He had like some sort of motor um tick. um So when he got ah anxious, he would like have these motor ticks. And when he came to Timber Nook that week, it stopped. so He stopped having motor ticks. And it was um and it was just, he didn't they didn't see it at all. They didn't see it at home or anything it was completely stopped then he went back to school and they were wearing masks and even though he was outside they still had masks and the motor ticks came back then he came back to timbernook like a month later went away completely that's funny so that was really so that tells you something yeah absolutely sure about mental health anxiety absolutely
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah. That is it's a good point with anxiety. I feel like what is the most common factor in anybody who suffers with severe anxiety? They're cooped up in their bed, scared to go outside.
00:35:37
Speaker
And that's what you need, you know? like So they're just inside all the time, won't even go out to... Their car won't even go out to get their mail. They just want to stay inside all the time. And that's the issue. You're, like we said earlier, with the kids catering to their weaknesses, when you don't go outside, when you don't do what your body needs, you're just going to keep covering yourself. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:36:01
Speaker
yeah We actually had, I think it's Helen Dodd who talked to our group. um She actually did a research research over COVID. And she said that every time there was a shutdown, there was an increase in anxiety in children. But when they were able to go out and play and do like that play that um you you can have those risks, she said that the anxiety went down. And she said the worst thing you can do for a child with anxiety is, let's say they're riding a bike and they fall off the bike, is to say you don't have to get back on that bike. And she said they need that risky play to overcome fears and yeah to overcome that anxiety. Because when your nervous system is always in the defense, if you have these anxiety... feelings, then your body's always like thinking that there are things in your environment that are dangerous. And the only way to help with that is to continuously face those things in a way that it is um like that is intrinsically motivating. Kids process through play. so like That's the way... I mean, we heard from um
00:37:07
Speaker
Morgan, the guest speaker from our Timber Nook conference, that one thing that she learned was in other countries where there was war going on, the children would reenact these war scenarios. And it was how they were processing through what was happening. So it's it's a way for kids to work through their feelings and to regulate their nervous system in a way that's intrinsically motivating. Yeah.
00:37:36
Speaker
And it's not even only just for kids, too. Adults need to do the same thing. If you do something and fail or get hurt or you know, some whatever, some accident happens, you need to go and do it again. and I always...
00:37:49
Speaker
There's this times where i something happens to me. and I don't want to do you know by force myself I just go right back out and I do it again because you just it's that mental barrier that you need to break through basically Yeah, and it's the balance between you know, you don't you don't want to overwhelm you don't want to flood the nervous system, um but that's what why making being in charge of it yourself and Going at your own pace is so important because you're you're not flooding your nervous system, but you're Coaching it through and you're recalibrating. What is safe and what's not?
Future Vision and Call to Action
00:38:22
Speaker
Yeah So let's talk about the future Where do you see Timber Nook going? What is the big vision and your hope and dream hopes and dreams that Timber Nook will, like what changes do you see Timber Nook making in the greater scheme of things?
00:38:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. oh man. So, you know, i'm I'm always paying attention to what is happening in the present moment.
00:38:53
Speaker
um And i can ah give some foretaste of what is coming. But I don't i don't know, obviously, what's to happen in the future. But based on where we've been and where we are in the present and little glimpses of what's happening, um One thing I'm most excited about is that we are creating our own model and a visual framework that you're working on, Morgan. And you could probably speak to better than I can. But, um you know, I love that um we're we're working towards like something that we've... We've ah always kind of known, but we're we're creating our own visual um framework so that we can better understand and educate and advocate for this work on a deeper level um and and showing and unveiling all the theories that go behind the program in Timber Nook.
00:39:47
Speaker
that That is very exciting to me because I think it's very timely. It's very needed right now um because Timber really is its own its own thing um and own method. um And what the other big thing that's happening is um there's a huge desperate need in schools. I just think there's Kids are really, really suffering. um You know, the amount of movement and play um has been really essentially taken away. And parents are also really stressed and parents and teachers know this is needed. And so where're because of where we're positioned in our research and what we can do, I really think we can have a big effect in the schools. And so I do envision...
00:40:31
Speaker
um continuing to move in. And that's kind of where we're headed. you know with There's so many schools, just our site alone. we We've had over a thousand kids in our woods, you know multiple, multiple field trips because because they're really desperate at this point. yeah We can do something about it so And what would you say to parents or, you know, future providers, teachers, anybody who are looking to get into this but don't know where to start?
00:41:01
Speaker
Yeah, so just you know just reach out and um send us an email and set up a time. i think there's so many resources now on our web website and videos. um you know Look at the research, ah listen to testimonies.
00:41:16
Speaker
it's It's very powerful. um when you know We had a group of 14 people train, and um you know people are on fire when they leave, ready to shout from the rooftop. So I think... Um, you know, and we're stronger together. There's many of us. That's one of our greatest strengths. You know, a lot of, um you know, a lot of other organizations are all in silos trying to do, recreate the wheel, all do it on their own. But we have that unity in that community, like a force. Yeah. so Yeah, absolutely. And we're we're unique. Timber Nook's own unique model is very different from, i mean, in this in social media, there's a ton of talk about nature-based play or nature-based programming, which may all be really great in and of itself. But Timber Nook really is a unique philosophy and mission and model um that is evidence-informed. And that is the difference um between maybe something that's just kind of, it's play outside, but... um
00:42:16
Speaker
again, can be really beneficial, but is not going to get the same outcomes as participating in the Timber Nook model. So hopefully we'll be able to articulate that moving forward so that people can reference it and understand really what's happening on a developmental level for these kids. Yeah, absolutely. Because there's a lot happening. Yeah. A lot happening. That's why when people come, they get so passionate. I mean, I'm one of them. Yeah. I'm like, scream it from the rooftops because it's it's amazing. Yeah, definitely.
00:42:47
Speaker
um Thank you so much for joining us today. That was great. We really loved hearing from you and hearing more of the backstory where we come from, basically, you know? So we really appreciate you youre coming on today. Yeah. yeah Yes. And thank you for all of your work. You're really making a difference and we see it every day. Yeah. Yeah. so yeah Thank you so much for coming. Thank you. of course Yeah. And, um, if you guys haven't already, make sure you subscribe, like repost, follow, put on your stories, shout out from rooftops, like Morgan said. Um, and if you want to reach out to us, you can reach us at the nook at timber nook.com.
00:43:25
Speaker
Um, Remember to play. hold on. Oh, sorry. I'm getting ahead of myself. Would you like say our slogan for us? What is it? It's a remember to play the Timber Nook way. Remember to play Timber Nook way. Yay. Bye, guys. Bye.