Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 2: Growing Up TimberNook with Joelle Hanscom
55 Plays23 days ago
A conversation with Joelle Hanscom, who grew up immersed in TimberNook programming. From building confidence as a child to taking healthy risks as an adult, she shares how those formative experiences in nature fundamentally shaped the person she became.
www.timbernook.com
Instagram: @timbernook_global
TikTok: @timbernook.global
Facebook: @TimberNook
Youtube: @TimberNookLLC
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
everyone welcome back to the nook i'm camden and i'm morgan and we have a quick little joke for you this morning before we hop into things what is a loggers favorite type of food to eat in the woods are you asking us no idea camden tree logs mac and trees oh nice okay all right hold on hold on
00:00:31
Speaker
Oh my God. Welcome back to the Nook, everybody. um So, back into the episode. Today's episode is a special one because instead of talking about the impact of play, we are hearing directly from someone who lived it Yeah, in this episode, we're so excited to be joined by Joelle Hanscom, who grew up in the Timber Nook program starting from age five and is now an adult reflecting back on how years of child-led outdoor play has shaped her confidence, her creativity, and her ability to navigate challenge and uncertainty, both as a child and into adulthood.
Impact of Outdoor Play on Development
00:01:06
Speaker
Sometimes when we talk about play, we focus on things like outcomes, research, or theory, but today is really about lived experience and what it actually feels like to grow up trusted, challenged, and supported through play.
00:01:17
Speaker
Whether you're a parent, provider, educator, therapist, or someone reflecting on your own childhood, this episode invites you to remember what becomes possible when children are given the space, time, and trust to play.
00:01:32
Speaker
Joelle, thank you so much for being here. We're really excited to have you on The Nook. And before we get started, can you start by telling us a little bit about who you are what you're up to today, and your connection with Timber Nook? Yeah, so my name is Joelle Hanscom. I am 20 years old and a sophomore in college. I am pursuing a business management and entrepreneurship.
00:01:51
Speaker
And I'm super excited to continue to work very closely with Timber Nook and just try to share um all my memories um about Timber Nook when I was growing up. Awesome, thank you. yeah So when you hear the words Timberdook childhood, what's the first memory or thought that comes to your mind?
00:02:08
Speaker
Oh my gosh, me picking up a tire and like booking it in the woods with like the the swamp clan on my tail. And I'm just like running down the hill to our fort with all the girls and like yelling at someone like, open the door and just like chucking the tire at them. Nice. That's awesome. That sounds really fun.
00:02:29
Speaker
um Can you talk a little bit about your first experiences at Timbernook? What felt different about Timbernook than other things that you might've been doing when you were a kid? um When I first started Timber Nook, well, when my mom first started Timber Nook, I was five years old. And so Timber Nook back then was nature stepping stones. And so it was like a lot different than what we know Timber Nook as like to be now.
00:02:53
Speaker
um So it was more of like petting alpacas and like making... making like veggie drinks i don't know i don't know it's called but like we used to like cut up the veggies and blend it all in the blender and then we'd have like the parents come and like we'd have our little juice shop and we'd like sell the parents our our juice and they would be like oh so good taste like nastiness but anyways so like compared to what else i was doing when i was that age i was just running around the backyard and like we me and my sister we used to go play with the neighbors so we would walk down the dirt trail to our neighbor's house and just go jump on their trampoline with them so
00:03:32
Speaker
I mean, I was ah always outside as a kid, so it didn't matter what I was doing. That's great. yeah So it sounds like um Timber Nook was much different when you started and when you were five years old and it evolved into what we know as Timber Nook is today. It sounds like there was a lot of adult-led structured activities um when it first started and now it has since evolved into more of a child-led model.
Evolution of Timber Nook's Play Model
00:03:54
Speaker
Definitely. So that's from ah activity to opportunity. Love that.
00:03:59
Speaker
and something we need that We need that as a quote. um Yeah, Yeah. Another thing i heard you say is that you participated in a lot of neighborhood play, which I feel like even for us like growing up, that was common, but may not be as common now as it was even 10 years, 15, 20 years fifteen twenty years ago Yeah. It still wasn't common when I was little, me and my sister. Like you would go down the neighborhoods. And I think my mom talks about this when she does talks, but you wouldn't see any kids outside. We had to like go. Like when I talk about going to like ask my neighbors to play, we would go pound on their door. And we'd be like, come out, come out. If they didn't come out, like we would just make our own fun or we would just go jump on their trampoline without them.
00:04:44
Speaker
So what did a typical Timber Nook day look like for you? Well, it started off with a lot of strategy. So before we even started the day, we would be, well, me and my sister, we would be talking about like what strategy we were going to use for the day, how to get all the gems back, all the tires and make our fort prettier, I guess. And then so after the circle and the story, we would wait until they said the opportunity. And then we would just book it for the supplies because the main goal was to have as much stuff as possible. But you didn't want to be like the Swamp Clan. All the guys, they would just pile their stuff. And so was like in this giant mound. ah But like us girls, we thought that like when you went at the end of the week, it's because you have like the prettiest four or whatever. So we would try doing that. And then we would just go and like hide all our treasure. like we would dig like We would dig at the root of trees and stuff our gems in there. And we wouldn't remember where we put it, but we were like, they'll never find this.
00:05:44
Speaker
But yeah, it was just a lot of stealing back and forth and yeah um spying. So this is part of what we say when we say that each Timber Nook location is different, but the play and the experience is Always the exactly the same. Yep. Because you said that was when you you started when you were like five. Yes.
00:06:03
Speaker
Almost two decades later, the kids that we watch out at Timornec are still doing the exact same thing. yeah every kid Every location I've ever been to, they're always doing the same exact stuff. I see it all the time at summer camp. like They'll be like, they're stealing. And I'm like, yes, get them, get them. yeah And you know what the most, the the part that stuck with me the most was that the kids still will try to hide things and then immediately will not be able to find them. Especially in the snow. Yeah. It just happens. Yeah, that's right.
00:06:33
Speaker
Part of the play. So during your time at Timbernic, were there specific times that felt especially exciting to you? Um, particularly the stealing game. i talk about this a lot probably, but just like when you're like in the moment, it feels really real to you. Like it doesn't feel like a game. So when you like when somebody on the other team steals your gems or you're like hauling butt across the woods with a tire in hand and you're trying not to get it stolen back, like
00:07:05
Speaker
you like there is no timber nook you're just like in the woods just running running like heck yeah so yeah probably just the stealing game and
Play as a Social Tool and Developmental Influence
00:07:14
Speaker
spying like spying was really like that really makes your adrenaline pump because you're like hiding behind those trees and like beneath like underneath the shrubbery and stuff and you're putting leaves on you to like camouflage you but then like Yeah, everything, it just makes your heart pound. It's not a game when you're playing it. Yeah, exactly. But it's definitely nothing close to Lord of the Flies. no no no no it's completely different it's operating out of a completely different like space like those kids yeah operating out of a space of trauma and fear and anxiety and we timbernook emphasizes emotional safety right so that's it's a completely different no but i get the core like i get the correlation because like like you're saying when you're in it it feels real like you feel like it definitely does yeah yeah
00:08:01
Speaker
And I mean, just like looking back in my childhood, we used to play capture the flag, which is not tim like it's not Timber Nook, but we used to do that just as like an activity outside. And like that felt so real to me, too. But then again, we see that we we went on. um went to the Timbernote conference this year and we did an adult activity where we went outside. That was so much fun. And we kind of simulated, it was kind of a capture the flag activity. It was.
00:08:27
Speaker
And it was surreal to be like brought back to, i mean, being an adult, you don't really get the opportunity to immerse yourself in play like that as much as we used to and, or at all ever. And so to be able to like bring up,
00:08:43
Speaker
bring myself back to that space it does feel real it feels like you're actually immersed into this game and that it's just really cool and you can kind of feel like how the kids are feeling in the moment yeah you're making me jealous i really wanted to go to that but i had to work next time camden next time I think we should do like young adult experiences, teen experiences, because we did one like a day over the summer and it was so much fun. Like I some of the pictures from that. Yeah. I wish I could go back down memory lane and just like relive just a day, like preferably a week of Timber Nook. But yeah. Yeah. let's do it yeah heard it really we're gonna do it really of like pretty much all ages we should have some sort of timber nook like situation where no we can't steal from five-year-olds that would be so mean no i'm saying like oh they're fine yeah they're fine oh my gosh but just like give me that tire
00:09:43
Speaker
amongst like adults because we never really get a chance to go back to that type of feeling it helps you with socialization too like i don't think people realize how good it is to play like just like free play out in the woods with other people because like gosh some of the people i go to college with they need timberluck right now yeah It's a really good icebreaker, too, because during our time at conference, I was we really got to know each other. Yeah. During
Freedom, Autonomy, and Risk in Play
00:10:11
Speaker
that game, including myself, we we got we got to know each other. was a really great way to Well, because you just turn and you assign people. You're like, all right, you're the runner. You're the guard. Yeah. And see the competitive side. Oh, yeah. For sure. It's always fun. Did our moms play along with this?
00:10:26
Speaker
Your mom left early, but my mom, I think my mom, no, my mom didn't join in. was like, come on, mom, you're on my team. And she's like she was like, don't know, my necks. I think she was really the referee. No, she was. We needed one for her.
00:10:42
Speaker
That's valid. Joelle, what did freedom mean to you as a kid in the woods? Freedom was not being told what to play or how to play in the woods and just being like your own person and just like interacting with other kids naturally instead of like being told like, hey, like you have to play with so-and-so and Just stuff like that, because it's so different than being in a classroom setting where you're always told like what to do, how to do it, how to play, who to talk to. So like just when you're out in the woods, it's just like I said before, natural and you just get to play what you want to play and and you don't feel like someone's breathing down your neck. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that was my least favorite thing. as We went to school together. And yeah, so we had to deal with the same struggles. The teacher's like, don't do this, don't do that.
00:11:31
Speaker
There's only like five people in the classroom too. And so you get extra attention. Yeah. yeah And with kids nowadays too, the the amount of verbal, I'm going to say the word like demands or prompts that kids get daily in school, out of school, at home. I mean, it is...
00:11:49
Speaker
I can't i don't know the number but it is a lot they get told what to do and how to do it all day long and so to have a time where the kids are are given the freedom and autonomy to explore what they want to explore and to dive into play schemes that they want to play with and not have that presence over you it must be it that truly is what I feel like would be freeing for them Yeah, it like it put it hinders their development too because if they're constantly being told what to do and like how to play and stuff, it's like they don't know how to make their own choices. Yeah, they're going to grow looking for those answers. They don't know. like They make bad choices in friends and outside of school and like they misbehave in school because they're tired of being told what to do all the time. Timber Nook is really good for giving kids that freedom to express themselves. It can even go the other way too. And then when you don't have direct direction, so much direction, it that can cause anxiety or feelings of anxiety because these these kids don't know how to rely on themselves. For sure.
00:12:56
Speaker
So how did Timidook shape your relationship with risk taking? So risk-taking is something that's really crucial in a kid's development. Like, you see it all the time. I'm so thankful that I started Timber Nook at an early age because as a counselor now, looking at other kids, like, they get to the top of this rock and they look down and they're like, oh, man, like, I'm going to jump. And you're like, oh, don't jump, don't jump. But they they fall and they end up crying and they, like... They just aren't really good about assessing um what is appropriate risk versus not appropriate risk. And so as a kid, like when you start Timonuk early or you start free play, free outdoor play, um child directed play earlier, it it's almost comes natural to you. Like you don't have to look at a rock too long and be like, should I jump off this? Like, it's just like,
00:13:44
Speaker
you just don't jump off the rock. And if you do, like it's kind of natural consequence. That's exactly what i was going to say. Definitely needed. Like when parents, I know it's kind of off topic, but when parents like coddle their kids too much and they eventually like something happens to them,
00:14:01
Speaker
they like it's it's so easy to see who needs to have like authentic play and not like adult directed play because they'll just like cry and cry and cry and cry and they don't understand that the meaning of like what a natural consequence is so i think that's really important yeah it's really important to allow children from a young age to work through different motor patterns to motor plan to develop that proprioceptive sense that body awareness for them to move through space and understand like, can I jump off of this wrong? Is it going to be safe for me and it really analyze the situation for her safety and
00:14:41
Speaker
take age appropriate risk. Definitely. For sure. And then when kids are not given that opportunity um at a younger age, we really see the effects of that later down the road, and especially with some of the kids who have are new to Timber Nook. You can see that their ability to take age appropriate risk, maybe they're a little there' their ability to assess a situation for safety is not is not the best.
Conflict Resolution and Problem-Solving in Play
00:15:09
Speaker
yeah And then the kids who have been in Timber Nook for quite some time really have a better understanding of their bodies and how to motor plan and their proprioceptive sentence and all of that. So...
00:15:18
Speaker
I feel like from the adult perspective, you see that a lot more with kids who come for field trips versus kids that come like every summer for summer camp. Like there's such a drastic difference. Yeah, absolutely. Risk assessment is a vital, vital skill that starts yeah young for sure.
00:15:34
Speaker
Can you share a moment where you felt maybe unsure in the woods, but worked through it on your own or with the help of peers? Yeah, so usually there was a lot of problems that came with the stealing game, although it was super fun. um There was always some like new kid that would cross a boundary, um and we like we were uncomfortable with it. And so sometimes like it would just be as simple as going up to them and being like, hey, like you can't take stuff on our fort. That's against the rules of the stealing game. And then like we'd explain it a little bit, and they'd understand, and then they would like follow that kind of unspoken Timbernook rule. um But when things got a little bit more complicated, sometimes like we would have to call a democratic meeting and have it kind of like it was still run by us kids, but we would just have the adults kind of directing the conversation a little bit more so that like everyone had a chance to speak. um And then we would just figure out.
00:16:34
Speaker
just I don't know solutions to the problem at hand yeah that's coming from you right yeah the conversation is guided by adults but the solutions are coming from the kids and that's what makes it so meaningful for you all yeah like you are still in charge of your play it would be totally different to have like a counselor come in and be like hey like you need to like talk to him about this and this is what you're gonna do to fix the problem like it's that would be like it would kind of ruin the play because once you go back in like i had a a new counselor do that one time when i was little and i just like like tara and i was like oh okay and i turned around once you went back in the woods was like guys we're not doing that we're doing this yeah and it's it's so interesting to me that that's not the default like the default is not to have the kids to have you as an adult guide
00:17:25
Speaker
the children to come up with their own solutions, but it's it's our impulse to come in and say, no, this is what you're going to do. I'm going to solve this problem. It's because we are uncomfortable with you guys having a conflict. And it's not it's not because it's not good for you guys. You guys can can work through that. um It looks a lot more intense like when you're watching it as a counselor because you're like, oh my gosh, like that kid's going swing. like But like if you're in this situation, you're already gauging the other person's reaction. And so like you know the situation better than somebody looking in because you know that person more closely and like on a deeper level because your your peers instead of like your teacher is watching down. And you know what you're playing. We don't know what you're playing. yeah We might have an idea, we might observe, but you you actually know what you guys have ah decided upon. yeah And again, this is all with nuance and we are obviously there to basically... um
00:18:23
Speaker
what is the word that I'm thinking of? Like, we're we're we are upholding the Timberknock rules. Like, we if we see somebody who's being unsafe to nature materials themselves or other people, we will step in, but we're doing it with the least amount of interference possible. And that's the difference. Rather than coming in...
00:18:43
Speaker
full force and directing the situation. yeah And that's where that's where true problem solving skills, interpersonal skills, social emotional skills, executive functioning skills, all of those things develop in children through working through that and not coming in like a bulldozer.
00:19:01
Speaker
and solving everything for them. That's why it's so obvious when like you grow up and you look like at other people that you're like hanging out with or just other people walking around college or high school and stuff like that. And you can just tell like some people haven't grown up outdoors like without parent-directed play. And it shows because they don't know how to hold a conversation properly. Yeah. so Yeah.
00:19:29
Speaker
And that brings me to my next question, which was how did the adults show up in these moments of conflict or um uncertainty? Like, what did their support look like without them taking over? Right. So my mom was like really good at this. She is. I see it now more when I'm a counselor. I didn't even notice her when I was little, but um she will like if she sees that there's a conflict happening and it's starting to like get more intense, she'll she'll creep in, but she'll get low, and so she's kind of like squat walking forward.
Long-Term Benefits of Childhood Play
00:20:03
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But she'll stop far enough away where she can she can see and hear and she can like butt in really quick if she needs to. But she's almost just there as emotional support. Like she doesn't come in yet. But then if something like if it gets out of hand or if like kids start getting too physical and stuff like that or like um unkind words are being shared, she that's when she'll come in and be like, Hey, guys, let's just make sure we're being kind to um each other and making sure that we're just like talking about our problems, but we don't have to like take that extra step forward. So just kind of like resetting boundaries, but not like coming in in a way where it's like, here is the solution to your problem. For sure.
00:20:49
Speaker
Yeah, and there's some reflection being allowed there. like there's right You're able to to step back and be like, oh, i I did break a timber knuckle rule, and it's not so...
00:21:01
Speaker
authoritative yeah and like even as a counselor like when a kid comes up to you and is like hey like he stole my favorite like gem or pine cone or something and you don't want to like exactly tell them how to resolve their problem so you almost turn it back on them and you're like hey like did you talk to them about it like why don't you go have a conversation with them Yeah, for sure. Allow them to self-advocate before you hop in. and Exactly. Because our goal is to provide the least amount of interference and and give them the opportunity to be as independent with their problem solving as possible. Right.
00:21:37
Speaker
For sure. Yeah. And I know we've been talking a lot about when you were a kid in Timbernook, but as you got older, when did you start realizing how Timbernook had shaped the person you'd become? Oh, my gosh. Probably freshman year of high school. That was like it was like the twilight zone. Just compared to like how I grew up, like I didn't get a phone until I was a freshman in high school. And so I didn't know really anything about social media and social media. Like, I was just completely content with not even picking up my phone all day. and so, like, going into high school, like, I knew how to hold conversations, like, my whole family. Like, we all grew up outside and stuff, and I always hung out with other kids that knew how to hold conversations, because I went to this, like, really small school at Camden. You were there. yeah People actually knew how to talk to each other. But anyways...
00:22:28
Speaker
So when I got to high school, i started trying to make friends. And so you go up to people and you try to have a solid conversation with them. And it was the weirdest thing. You would ask them a question and they would answer with like one word. And then they wouldn't ask you something back. And so it was almost like a one-sided conversation. And it was just like, it wouldn't go anywhere. and then when you like, all of a sudden you stop talking and they whip out their phone and they hold their phone like this close to their face. And so, It was just really hard to connect with people face-to-face and more on an interpersonal level because like people were doing everything online. And even in the hallways, walking through the hallways, everybody's either looking at their phone or if they don't have their phones, they're like looking straight down at the floor as they're walking because they don't even know to make contact anymore. Yes. smile at somebody, yeah.
00:23:19
Speaker
Yeah, that happens in college too. So I'll walk by someone that like wasn't my class or whatever and I know' i have my phone put away and I'm like walking and i make eye contact with them and I give them a smile and they like immediately look down like they're afraid to like talk to me. i'm
Practical Advice for Supporting Play
00:23:34
Speaker
like, it's okay. like You don't have to say anything to me. you just could give me like a little little smirk or something. It's almost painful. It's like they do they just they genuinely don't know how to respond. It's not comfortable for them. It's outside of their comfort zone yeah because they haven't had that opportunity or practice to build that. It's a skill just like anything else. yeah Some people don't even know how to talk to like...
00:23:56
Speaker
like adult figures too so like you're sitting in college class and people won't ask questions because they're afraid to be wrong or they like don't know how to talk to a professor but you just talk to them like they're normal people and like it's okay to have a question like fear of failure exactly it's a very real thing yeah but failure is something that everyone has to go through it's how you grow yes exactly When you're given the opportunity to fail and realize and work it to try to fail to adopt and to recover. Like yeah that is what Timber Nook, that's a natural outcome of being at Timber Nook is that you're going to try some things. It's not going to work. you're going to try something different. It may work that time and you're going to adapt your response and recover from whatever you just
00:24:37
Speaker
quote unquote failed with and some people just haven't had practice with that they're they're being told what to do every second of the day they have no freedom in that area so yeah for sure that's why timber nook is good for problem solving and timber nook's good for so much oh yeah we should make a bumper sticker that says timber nook's good for you ah it's that's true statement in what ways do you think play influenced your confidence or your ability to trust yourself Oh, my gosh. That's another thing. Like, I didn't realize how much Tim Renwick was helping me until I got to high school and, like, kids from all over were in my classes. But, like, as a kid, I was always super confident. I had no filter.
00:25:22
Speaker
Like, when i when I got older, I... Realize that I need to reel that in a little bit, but my confidence grew in the woods because everybody, everybody was problem solving and they weren't afraid of failure. And so when you're not afraid of failure, you're like, you're not afraid to be confident in who you are and be able to speak up. And so, yeah, definitely, definitely.
00:25:47
Speaker
All right, we're going to take a quick pause here and asking Joelle some questions. And we're going to introduce a new segment as part of the Nook podcast. And it's called the Timber Nook Tidbits. Thank you to Ashley Pond for writing in at the Nook at Timber Nook dot com with this amazing idea. And we're going to bring you real world tips, tidbits, action items for all of you who want to protect and support play. So our first one is to pause before helping. So when a child asks for help during play, ah pause and observe, take a moment before stepping in.
00:26:22
Speaker
This pause gives the children space to work through problems with peers, negotiate solutions and manage emotions. By resisting the urge to fix things immediately, you're supporting social emotional growth, communication and confidence in their own decision making, which these are all key skills in healthy development.
00:26:40
Speaker
So looking back now as an adult, where do you see the clearest outcomes from your Timbernook experience as a child? I would say definitely um like my strong sense of self. I feel like a lot of kids struggle with that at my age from probably like starting in high school and especially in college. People like don't, their childhood is so structured in a way that they almost don't have like free thoughts. Mm-hmm. Like, because parents overschedule their kids so much. They go from school to sports practice to theater practice to home and they just go to sleep. And so... And homework. Yeah. Yeah. Tons of homework. But so when they wake up in the morning, it's just a repetition after day after day and they almost don't have, like, the free time to do, like, have free play. And so when...
00:27:35
Speaker
when they grow up they don't have a strong sense of self because they don't understand like what they're like what do i like to do like just stuff like that and um I guess confidence also goes with a sense of self like just knowing who you are as a person and not changing who you are um because of somebody else's opinion i think that's really important especially in high school and college and Even like when you're an adult and in your work life, like you have to realize that like Timber Nook taught me that other people's opinions should not be driving your life because then you're just living, then you're just living your life for other people and you're not living your life how you want to live it.
Roles and Failure in Play
00:28:18
Speaker
So I think that's really important. Yeah, for sure. And it we like with the kids, we they are able to explore so many roles in play. I mean, we talked a little bit about a conference, like the difference between a leader, a negotiator, a yeah follower and how those things can change. Like somebody can be a negotiator one day and a leader or the next day where they can be a leader most days. Like, yeah, you really learn a lot about yourself and how you work with others at Timber Nook. So I can imagine how that contributed to your sense of self. Yeah, definitely. Everyone has a role at Timber Nook. And so like everyone has a sense of purpose and that kind of builds on their sense of self.
00:28:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you. What do you hope that adults better understand about children risk-taking and play? Okay, I really like this question. There's a lot of things I could say, but probably the main thing that I'd say is like, let your kids fail. Let them like fall off. Not like a huge rock, obviously, but like let them Let them eat it a couple of times and like don't don't always go in when they cry because half the time they can solve the problem by themselves.
00:29:31
Speaker
Like I just say, but like back up a couple steps and let your child Learn how to risk take and learn how to play with other kids and just like don't don't hover because no kid likes when you hover when they're trying to play. It actually like takes their attention away from the play and directs redirects it onto you. And like, so even if you're just like close by and you're not saying anything, your kid will automatically come back and like ask your permission, like whenever they need to make a choice. Whereas if you step back farther, um like to like step back, but tune in um your kid will, they'll play better and they'll make like closer connections with other kids that they're playing with. yeah for sure an adult's presence shift can shift a dynamic significantly in a play scheme i remember one time when i was doing timber nook we were having like this secret meeting with like us girls and we were in our fort and we like took it outside of the fort because there was like the guys were coming and so we were saying like the last couple of things and i remember hearing a branch snap in the woods and like I whipped my head around. i was like, who is that? And it was just the counselor, like kind of like, but they were too close. And so when I turned back to go back into my play, I couldn't i couldn't get back into it because I knew i could feel the presence of that adult right there.
00:31:00
Speaker
And so like I only relaxed when like they backed up farther. And I think that's like most parents don't realize the effect that they have on like kids play. Absolutely. Yes.
00:31:12
Speaker
Very true. they They probably don't realize that. And that's what's so great about this podcast and Timberdook in general is to tell people like, yeah like you were saying in the beginning, this play is real for kids and your presence alters that. And so to be mindful of that when you're,
00:31:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's something I've noticed as an adult, too. I'll see kids playing or or like you know fighting or stealing or whatever, and then all of a sudden I'll see one of them like, oh, somebody's there, and then I'll watch them say, guys, stop, we we shouldn't do that, we can't do that. And then I'm like...
00:31:44
Speaker
now should i go in and tell them no it's fine but like at the same time i should just kind it almost ruins the moment exactly like that goes for pictures too like i know it's important to get pictures and stuff but i just remember like my mom coming in to take pictures of like the play like she would try to do it subtly but i'd be like oh like now it just doesn't feel natural because i'm trying not to pose for the camera yeah a lot of kids do that they're like oh take a picture of me take a picture of me or they'll be like Yeah, but you want to get them like in the actual play. Authentic yeah play, for sure.
Authenticity and Social Media in Social Interactions
00:32:17
Speaker
Absolutely. So what role did Timberdook play in your friendships? Like, are there certain type of people you're drawn to or a type ah type of person that you're more likely to make friends with than others?
00:32:29
Speaker
Definitely. i I guess it almost made me pickier, like who I want to be friends with, because in high school, like I i was still trying to figure it out. And there was a lot there's a lot more different kinds of people in high school. And so... Like I ended up making friends with like some some girls that were really manipulative. and But like good thing I went through Timber Nook because I wouldn't have like I probably would have just put up with it because a lot of kids like don't speak up anymore. But so like when I went through that.
00:33:06
Speaker
Like I was able to set my boundaries and be like hey like this is not like somebody that I want to be friends with and Like to be able to try to resolve it. Yes But if it doesn't get resolved to be able to walk away and find new friendships and so now Like I'm, I guess I'm a little bit more careful. Like I, I am a really bubbly person. So I, I connect with a lot of people, but I don't have a lot of things in common yeah with other people. So like, I always like friends who are super outdoorsy and who can like match my bubbly energy. um
00:33:41
Speaker
but like, people that like I can go out and do and do things with. like not like I'm not really into parties and stuff, but like let's go hiking or let's like explore an abandoned building. I know you're not supposed to do that, but it's super fun. So yeah I end up being friends with, I actually have this huge group of guy friends but they're all homeschooled and i think that's super funny because like they're super personable and they're super like spontaneous and adventurous and it's it's almost because they're homeschooled like in a way because they grew up kind of how i did
00:34:22
Speaker
so But I found that it's really hard to find like friends that are like wholesome friends that are girls that like share my interests and like and are their own person. And they don't like change their personality based on who they're with. And I really...
00:34:41
Speaker
This might be getting in too deep, but I just, I really do not like when people talk bad about people behind their backs. Like, especially like if we're in like a friend group and then somebody leaves and they're like, oh, like she's so annoying. Like it's really hard to find girls that don't talk crap behind people's backs. So. Yeah. But it's really hard nowadays with like what you were saying before. Nobody goes out and plays outside and anymore. Everybody's on their phones. Social media has destroyed. yes Making friends, being comfortable in your own skin and having your own personality. Everybody is like, oh, this girl is prettier than me. Oh, this person has nicer things than me. yeah And they want to do this and do that. And if you're not fitting into that standard that is on social media, you're like weird yeah or you don't feel good about yourself. It's almost like a popularity thing. Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:34
Speaker
I think it all comes back to what you were mentioning before about your strong sense of self versus maybe others who may not have as strong of a sense of self. So they may feel the need to bend ah according to different standards, like their friend standards, society standards, social media all of that so if you really are rooted in a strong sense of self and you've had practice through timber nook of dealing with many different personalities building those interpersonal skills those are vital vital skills to carry you through your your lifetime yeah if you could say one thing to caregivers or educators who may feel nervous about child-led outdoor play what would that be
00:36:19
Speaker
um I don't know. I'd probably just say there's no reason to be nervous. Like this is this is something that's key in every kid's development. And so like if you deprive a kid of this kind of play, they're here making them miss out on something.
00:36:39
Speaker
like like their strong sense of self and just stuff like that later on in life they're gonna realize you're gonna realize that like just you need to put your fears on the back burner so that your your kids can like live their life thrive they can thrive for sure And like we said before, like the most important thing is that the risk taking and natural consequences are so important because they won't be able to make their own decisions or take those risks that they would otherwise, you know, like they're just going to be more, I guess, I don't want to say fearful, but um just less likely to take those risks and um try new things, meet new people. um even just learn more about themselves.
Building Resilience Through Unstructured Play
00:37:27
Speaker
They'll be too nervous to actually step out of their comfort zone and do something rather than if they get out there and start pushing boundaries, you know, and like letting them make those decisions on their own
00:37:35
Speaker
It's important to like do that from a young age too, because if you constantly make decisions and like, oh, like they're, that's not safe. Like they can't do that. You take away their risk risk assessment. And so when you finally have to let them lose when they turn 18 or when they go to college, you're,
00:37:55
Speaker
you're letting them do it, but they have no experience with risk taking and those social interactions because you've constantly been been telling them what to do. And so yeah when you finally let them loose into the world, they have no idea what to do and they make terrible decisions. Right, exactly. there There's actually, like your mom talks about this a lot, that they're more injury prone Yes. As they get older, if they're not given that opportunity to grow that skill set of risk assessment. Right. And so if you're again, if if they're not able, if they're not given the opportunity to do that, if you're.
00:38:36
Speaker
controlling their environment so much in their choices that they're not able to they're not given the opportunity to do that they're gonna be more prone to injury later on and they're gonna be less ah aware again of their bodies and all of that and you're never gonna be able to prevent everything with your child yes you're never going to be able to wrap them in bubble wrap and prevent anything bad from happening um obviously there are measures that you take to promote a safe environment because we want to promote felt safety and physical safety obviously but there's always going to be things that happen you can't control yep and so you need to prepare your kids for those moments and give them as much opportunity
00:39:23
Speaker
to grow in that skillset as possible so that they're set up for later life. Yeah, you're basically, like, if you let your kid have child-directed play without hovering, you're also building their resilience. So like you were saying, when they finally go out into the real world and something bad happens, they're able to bounce back from that. Whereas if you don't give them that opportunity, it's it could be like detrimental. Absolutely.
Conclusion and Encouragement for Outdoor Play
00:39:54
Speaker
For sure. Yeah. Cool. And ah before we close it out, I got a good question for you. So if you could relive one day of your childhood in Timbernook, exactly how it was, which one would it be and why?
00:40:09
Speaker
Definitely from the Goonies camp. There was one day it was trap doors and booby traps. And i loved that day. I still love watching as a counselor. Your mom tells us about this when you were a kid. Oh my gosh. Yes. I, i oh my gosh. I considered myself the master of booby traps. So basically I made this great trip wire. i got in trouble with,
00:40:35
Speaker
for making it but i so connected this rope and i tied it to one of the trees on the other side from the fort and i knew the guys were going to come steal from us and so i hid the rope under leaves and i hid behind tree on the other side and so when the guys came to steal one of our tires or blocks of wood or something they grabbed it and i let them And when they started running back towards their fort, yanked the tripwire and he ate it. my gosh. It was like the highlight moment of my Timberneck experience. But, yeah, I got, yeah, one of the counselors stood up and was like, well, and I like, oh, shoot. No regrets, but I definitely shouldn't have done that. No regrets, she says. Yeah. Yeah, that's so funny.
00:41:24
Speaker
All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us. It was such a pleasure to have you on here and learn from your lived experience. You're somebody who has been a part of Timber Nook for so long, and that's so special and unique. And so so amazing to hear from you. Yeah, thank you. I really enjoyed talking to you both. So thank you. Awesome. Of course.
00:41:44
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much for joining us today. We'll see you the first Tuesday of every month. And don't forget to subscribe, share, like, follow, whatever you're watching this on. um And now as we close out, we're going to let Joelle look right at that camera right there and say, remember to go and play the Timber Nook away. Remember to go and play the Timber Nook away. Bye, everyone. See you soon.