Transcript
Speaker: Hey everybody, welcome back to The Nook. I'm your host Camden. I'm Morgan. And today we have a very special guest. Today we have Jess Wilson. Would you like to do the honors of introducing our guest? Sure. We have Jess Wilson with us today. Thank you for joining. Absolutely.
Speaker: We're so excited to have her because she's a wealth of knowledge and experience. She started as a long-term sub in Para and then in 2007 she got her first classroom and she remained as a teacher for nine years where then she transitioned to a principal role for 10 years following that. All of this was done in K through eight schools. Then recently, she took a jump last year in 2025 to pursue Timber Nook full time. So I'm so excited to pick her brain and see what she has to share with us today. And before we jump into it, I have a joke. So see if you guys know the answer to this one. Which side of a tree has the most leaves?
Speaker: I'm not even going to answer this one because I've been doing so bad with these. The top. Oh, that's like a dress. The top. Duh. The outside. Okay. Okay. That's a pretty good one. That's pretty good. That's a good one. That's a good one. Thank you. Thank you for that. I'm going use that.
Speaker: All right. Like always, we're just going to jump right in it. Um, Let's set the stage. Tell us who you are and how your path took you from leading a school to becoming a Timber Nook provider.
Speaker: um So as Morgan said, I spent 20 years in public education, which um feels like a blink of an eye, quite honestly. um But it was, I learned so much in every kind of role that I was in. um But I had learned about Angie and Timber Nook. Well, Angie specifically, I think in her, um her book and right around COVID time.
Speaker: So I had gone to my last school like six months before COVID hit. And so we needed to kind of figure out what we were doing. um We kind of looked into it. She was becoming kind of popular as like a speaker. um But then um we just couldn't like make our schedules connect. So we kind of looked at it. Maybe we could become a Timber Nook school. Yeah.
Speaker: ah We had 200 kids in our school um and we just didn't have the budget for it. We got actually very little COVID money, which we had kind of planned to use, but that would have taken up a big chunk of that. And so unfortunately we had to do other mitigating and academic related things, even though we all know um how important this is to academics as well. Hindsight 2020, I could have pushed a bit harder for it then, um but we just couldn't afford it and we didn't have the capacity for our staff. um So I kind of had always kept it in the back of my mind that it's something that really interested me.
Speaker: And then i kind of started doing some research. I had put an inquiry in a year before I actually got approved by Angie and Angela to start my program.
Speaker: And i was like, i don't know, I have a lot. I was expecting my son and things like that. And then I had him and my world sort of really drastically shifted in my brain. And I was like, I want to do something else. I loved my job. I love my profession. um I'm in like a hiatus sort of um spot right now. I'm keeping my certification um just because I worked really, really hard for that. yeah And i want the opportunity to always have that.
Speaker: Um, but I, my brain shifted and my whole world just shifted and I knew i wanted to be able to spend some time, with so my son Callum and I wasn't going to be able to do that as a principal and give myself to my job, um, completely. And so i really looked hard at Timurnook and I met with them. Um, I had just had Callum and the summer before i was like, oh, I could totally do my training.
Speaker: And then I would have been like eight months pregnant and having done the training now, I'm so I didn't do that. Seven months pregnant, it would not have been fun, and I would not probably have retained very much information. So I did that sort of while I was on my maternity leave and bit the bullet. And then as I was getting ready for training, had gone back to work full time after maternity leave, and I just said, I think... I really want to do this full time. I had planned to finish up my contract and I approached my school board, my superintendent and asked to be released a year early. I was in a three year contract, which was very, very generous. And it was that was a big leap to walk away from having school that was willing to give me so much time to commit to me. Yeah.
Speaker: um and to them. And so that was a really big deal. My husband and talked and he's like, I think you should just do it. Like it makes you so happy to be out there and you can be with Callum and it's doing all the things that you can't do with your hands tied in a public school. So yeah that's how I came to be a Timberneck provider. Awesome. Thank you for sharing. yeah Thank you. Yeah. um So as a teacher, did you start noticing things in your students that made you wonder if these academic practices were really best for them?
Speaker: um Yeah. So again, kind of hindsight 2020, we, and I feel like I'm the opposite of 2026 Jess, is very different than like 2020 Jess, where we were trying to get devices into hands so quickly.
Speaker: My last school, and I think most schools in our nation, at least in New Hampshire, are one-to-one device schools. And so we had them in kindergarten through eighth grade. And so those kids did something on a Chromebook almost every day. Well, every day they did. And some of our kids in the middle school had them in every class. um And so that that that was hard um to watch that. But now especially that I have my background and the research that I've been doing,
Speaker: No. ah Yeah. So like, but kids are, they're just so drawn to a device and so different and their attention um and their behaviors, like very different kids than I saw coming into my career when I graduated college in 2005 compared to 2025, just very different behaviors that were coming. um And I think I feel very strongly that a lot of that is related to technology and just what they have in their hands. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, it's technology. It's not even just about what you are doing on the technology. It's about what you're not doing. In my opinion, that obviously there is a lot that has to do with what you're doing, but they're not engaged in any sort of gross motor movement. They're not engaged with their peers to navigate social conflict. It's something that they can be completely and utterly immersed in that's taking up their attention, that they're they're not accessing these other vital skills that are important to development. So thank you for sharing that because I definitely see that pattern as well. Yeah. A lot of kids have that hard break too of like the kids that are really into technology and that's how their brain has sort of learned to develop. It's really hard for them to come off of that technology when you're like, this is what we're doing now. And they're like, no, this is what I want to be doing. absolutely um And then sometimes because we're looking for things that drive a kid's positive behavior, some of our most
Speaker: hard behavior kids are using technology as a reward. or but Don't even get me started. in the opposite But we saw a big decline in like handwriting um and just communication, and particularly after COVID and watching those five years happen. It's very interesting.
Speaker: Absolutely. Yeah. Communication, motor skills, and ah using technology as a reward. Just as a little, you know, side note for me over here, and take it for for whatever it's worth, but anything that you use as a reward is going to become more rewarding to them. So definitely keep that in mind.
Speaker: um So let's chat a little bit about the early 2000s. I know you started in 2005. That was around the time where um the No Child Left Behind Act was um enacted and schools were being judged almost entirely on standardized test scores so that anything that wasn't tested started getting cut. And now we're seeing kids with as little as 15 to 20 minutes of outdoor time in an entire school day and some with none at all. And of course, we're talking about schools um broadly. Of course, there's there's schools that don't fit this that prioritize outdoor play more than others. But um it's definitely... occurring that kids are getting 15 minutes of recess um a day or less.
Speaker: And alongside this, this was this caused a significant cultural shift towards focusing on test scores as a measure of student success. So with all of that being said, um what were you actually witnessing during this time in the schools and what shifted with um the new act that was that replaced the No Child Left Behind Act? I guess, what did that time look like for you?
Speaker: um So definitely parents started becoming more concerned sort of where their kids were laying in their testing. We kind of started talking about it in all of our like parent teacher conferences. Like it was always sort of the first thing on the table, not like I love your kid. This is what they're doing. yeah i love them as a person sharing all that too, just because you can do that individually. But, um but also having to like sit with a packet because like our administrators were asking us to do that. And our boards were asking us to share that information um Early in my career, it was new for to do like NEWA testing is what we had. So um doing like... um
Speaker: Sorry, I haven't had to access this information right here. But um like your your formal testing and your um standardized testing. But it was like a dipstick of getting like where the kids were. So like progress monitoring. Anyway, we get there eventually. um So it was a way for us to progress monitor our kids. But they were taking a really long time. So that was kind of the beginning of like the new star testings and things like that of how we were going to assess our kids at going.
Speaker: And so I think New Hampshire, we probably were lucky in that time because we had such a strong commissioner of education. We had Jenny Berry and she was an amazing educator with a huge background of pedagogy and um administration. And so she really kind of stuck her guns and was a really good advocate at the federal level for the state of new Hampshire. And so because of her education,
Speaker: probably until recently, we were really ahead of um kind of the country and looked at more of as like a, um you know, what is New Hampshire doing? And so other people were looking to what we're doing. So I think we have been able to kind of skirt around some of the outcomes of what that could have looked like. um So like we don't have in most, of I don't think any districts in New Hampshire now are doing like merit pay. So like that's really big down south. So yeah, It depends on like how your kids are doing on their testing and could you get a bonus or could you get fired and it's like directly related to their contracts and we're lucky to not have that here in New Hampshire and I think a big part of that was what she sort of stood for.
Speaker: um But definitely it kind of shifted along the way because like our staff meetings all became about data and. I don't think anybody really knew what to do with it at first, but we just knew we had to be testing our kids and we knew someone was going to be judging us. yeah um It really narrowed down curriculums that were going to be used and that got tied to federal funding. um And then you had sort of like the ESSER stuff that came next. And um it's just...
Speaker: it's always like something else that you need to like prove yourself. And so you're making these kids have to do the proving all the time. yeah And like how many things can you get to before you do your spring testing? And when can you open your spring testing window to make sure your kids would have had the most time to test? And so it really starts driving a lot of the scheduling that you're doing with your curriculum and not always, unfortunately, but best practice for what is developmentally appropriate for your particular class or group of kids that you may have right then. Thank you. Yeah. And a lot you were saying, trying to schedule, like get this whole schedule built. And along with that, I mean, I know firsthand that a lot of times recesses were shortened or sometimes even cut in total.
Speaker: And did you see that that was really affecting kids, not just in the classroom, but even like at the end of the day or at any point in their lives? Yeah, absolutely. I think also because you're trying to get the hours that are mandated by the state in as well, like your school day hours. So um I was at a middle school in Farmington for almost four years and we ran by a middle school schedule, but we were a four through eight building. So we had our four five kids almost operating on a different schedule, but we still had to get the minutes in for the six, seven, eight kids. So like they would do like a flex time, like recess. Like if they could eat fast enough, they could get outside for that day. And if the teachers could get them out of the cafeteria, they could get an outside time um for that day. I think I remember that when I was in school. It's a very popular, unfortunately, middle school yeah thing. I did my student teaching at a school on the seacoast and their outside time consisted of they walked outside the building from lunch back the middle school wing.
Speaker: I can't imagine. So, yes, that is unfortunately the first thing to go. Absolutely. um You also talked about the data that you guys were sitting down and and analyzing the data and in your your experience. What was getting lost in that equation that never showed up in the data?
Speaker: Like what was getting lost in translation? True picture of each child. like a holistic developmental picture. Yeah. Okay. And like, you have to take it into consideration. Kids have test anxiety. They, it's one snapshot of one day and it's putting so much pressure on what that looks like for that child. Um, and then they could be absent and then they're tying that to funding. So like if you're, I don't know if you guys are aware too, but, If your scores are low enough and you have a subgroup that's low enough, um so typically like your special ed, if they those group of kids, that subgroup is lower than the rest of your kids, you get identified as a school in New Hampshire that is in need and you get on this list. And so you have to like prove that you are providing these services, you get audited, well and you have to like do all these steps that really don't help mitigate the actual situation.
Speaker: issue which is these kids, it's not appropriate for them to be taking these tests. Yeah. Yes. Yes. um That's on on multiple levels. I feel like it's so complex because not only does it affect um their development,
Speaker: it affects their self-esteem. they're Now their self-esteem, their identity is being tied to a number, which then increases anxiety. It's just kind of like not what is best supportive of these children. um A lot of them also don't care.
Speaker: Yeah. Because they're like, we like prep them and like get them excited and you're like here was your score from last time can you make this better let's have a rally let's get excited and let's do this and we can increase our scores and do all these five hand five test things and yeah um all yay and then the kids are like what does this matter like this doesn't count for anything intrinsically motivated at all it's not that that stuff is not generalizable to your day-to-day functioning yeah And then when parents go around and say, I'm going to pull my child from testing and fill out the form, because that always goes around on like parent forms, I feel like at testing season, um by them withdrawing, that counts as zero for the district. Wow. So that also then affects funding. That's ridiculous. Wow. So those are things that like...
Speaker: You would love to tell the public, but at the same time, you're like, I don't think it's appropriate for I agree with you. It's not appropriate for your child that you're choosing to remove to be taking this test. But I can't encourage you to do that because that's not appropriate either. And is this still um happening with the, can you, what is the name of the act that replaced the No Child Left Behind Act? to The ESSER Act. The ESSER Act. Is that still happening under the ESSER Act? It's just a different version. It's just a different version. So every time that grant gets renamed, it gets named something else. So the president the next president sort of renames it and the um director of education. But it's still very similar or the same. Okay. It's still like the same bill. So it stays. Gotcha. Okay.
Speaker: That's so interesting and disheartening. And it's old.
Speaker: I just like to give it a new name to... To make it. Yeah. and And these are well intentioned, I like to think. um note i I think so for the time period that they were they were created. Created for. um But it's important to listen to the the teachers and the students and. the the people who are living it every day the research. If we, I mean, as Tim Berno, we're pro academics. We are pro child child learning, but we just believe that you have to support the child developmentally as a foundation. And then they're better able to access academics, retain it better, and then receive a better quality education because they're, they're,
Speaker: ready They're ready and able to says to attend to to this material. Absolutely. i just got on a tangent. Sorry. um
Speaker: Let's move into what the system is kind of actually built on and what it's missing. if you had to describe so describe some core assumptions that the American school system is built on about what children like ought to do, what they need, what school is made for, um what would you say those broad assumptions are? It can be with parents, teachers, administrators, almost like could they could be misconceptions or accurate, whatever you feel. um So I think our traditional model, which probably you're both familiar with is
Speaker: ah based on the industrial revolution. um And so that's like the whole bell schedule too. So it's getting kids prepped to go to work in factories. Explain that please further for me and the audience. um So it's like they have to like clock in, they have to get their work done. Like you're going to this task, you're going to this next task.
Speaker: You're they're ringing bells throughout the day. So now it's your lunch bell. Now it's your recess bell. um So it would be manipulating or fabricating what it would be like to work in a factory, like as a child. And so it's getting them ready for the workforce.
Speaker: well um But we haven't changed much of that since the early 1900s in that you know sort of picture of what that looks like. um And I think, unfortunately, i could go on and on about this, but um I think the system of a whole is you have a lot of people that want to look holistically at children, and you can talk about that a lot, and being trauma-informed and all these buzzwords. But then you also have a group of parents that...
Speaker: um So let me back up. You have several groups of parents that are sending their kids to public school. um We have parents that really need it for a reason. like And I try to look at globally, not just in New Hampshire, because I think New Hampshire is um an anomaly in many aspects. When you look at like schools that are like out west or down south where you're um either sending thousands of kids to a county um school district or you're sending 10 kids to a county school district like out west and there's 200 miles between kids and so
Speaker: they're accessing a free and public education, which should be well-rounded for kids. And it should be providing opportunities and experiences for them. um But then you have a a group of parents that really depend on a public school. And so they're depending on it because they have to go to work and it's expensive for childcare. And so you often see a lot of kids that are getting rushed into kindergarten. Like I would get...
Speaker: between one and five emails every year of like, my child is very advanced. Can you please consider letting them into kindergarten at age four? They're going to be five like in December or October or, you know, January or whatever. And so my last district, we had a very hard line on that. It was just not developmentally appropriate for them um to be there. And so we actually had a policy written for that. um And so usually that kind of goes up to the superintendent, they decide. So you have that group of parents that really depends on child care situations for school. They send their kid, they expect them to come back with a great education and they either do or don't.
Speaker: I think you have a group of parents that really believes in school and so they want their kids there. They want the best education for them. They're very involved. um And then you have a very new group of parents, I think, that is starting to come up. um Particularly in public school, you have a group of parents that um they are never quite satisfied with what their child is getting. um in school or it's always somebody else's fault. um Or um I think they're very quick to, you know, point their fingers at an administration. um That was also a big part of me for having to transition out of public ed. Right now it was becoming really stressful, like to be in that role. I was a solo administrator in my school and there were some really vocal people sort of in our public that were um really unkind and like intentionally like
Speaker: making it like fabricating things and and things like that. And so that's really disheartening because I feel like the small voices unfortunately get a lot of publicity um and social media has really impacted that and given um those parents a voice. And so that's really disheartening to have those mixes of kids together. When um i think you kind of used to feel like everybody was sort of together, like teachers are professionals, you believe in them. yeah And then now that has sort of shifted for some of our kids.
Speaker: So they get a different perspective from each other and their parents night. Yeah. Wow. I didn't even think of that. And I mean, I, it's, I think, healthy to be,
Speaker: How do I phrase this? It's it's healthy to be um looking at how we are educating our kids with a critical eye but also understanding that the the people who are working with our kids, the.
Speaker: i the vast majority of them are really wanting what's best for these kids. Like these teachers are on our side. the These administrators and um are on our side. And it's, it's something that we need to work with them on um instead of against them.
Speaker: Just wanted to preface that. The boots on the ground people that really yeah are doing the caring and yeah people that are with the kids every day. And that's why education is so important on on both sides. I mean, um I think understanding exactly, I'll talk about Timbernoe specifically, but exactly what Timbernoe will provide to a school. I'm sure that that the teachers would be so open and willing to learn about that and and to understand that it's it's going to support the kids. Yeah.
Speaker: They're on our side. We just have to work with the system in that way. So speaking of getting Timberdook into these school systems, where how do you feel that child-led outdoor play fits into this crazy thing that's going on within the schools? Just how ridiculous everything is nowadays. How do you think that fits in and can really change the child's life?
Speaker: So I think we've been at a reel me back in if I go off topic. Nope. You're good. We've been at a really big crossroads, I think particularly since 2020. And so, you know, COVID kind of like really dropped um an air ball right into the middle of what we were doing in education. And I think it, um,
Speaker: You know, it impacted kids negatively. However, it really kind of shook up sort of what people were doing. And you can pivot and you can change things overnight. And so I think that kind of proved to teachers, you know, beyond their own trauma of teaching from their homes, which I never want to run a school from my house virtually ever again. ye um But I think um it really gave the opportunity to be able to look at what we do in our schools very differently. um And I think with the increase of what we're seeing, which I'm not I'm not convinced totally it's a new increase of what we're seeing of trauma kids. I think that it's more prevalent and I think kids are feeling safer in their environments at school. um And I think COVID also exacerbated quiet things that were happening at home and sort of made them bigger. And so kids were starting to act out a bit more. um You know, depression really affects kids in their home. So it's not just them, it's their adults. Many families ended up doubling up.
Speaker: moving in our economy is you know a big stress on parents people losing jobs groceries going up and so i think you're seeing um behaviors that would not have necessarily been so big are getting bigger and so i i have really strongly felt that because of covid it was an opportunity for schools to be able to change and kind of broaden their horizons um I don't know what it's going to take to formally do that. um But I think people are looking for options to be able to support their kids and their staff and their communities. um
Speaker: I think also with schools having to, um you know, school choice is a big topic in New Hampshire. yeah I don't know about anywhere else um in the country that you might be listening in, but um it's a big thing here right now also because we're such a small state. and our state doesn't fund education well here, which I'm sure both of you are aware of. They put it on the local taxpayer. And so people really want that opportunity to get um a better education for their kids, and they think that their sending district is giving. and But that really manipulates school budgeting in a very odd and strange way that may not be beneficial. And you may end up losing some really small town schools that just can't afford to either have an influx of kids coming or losing their population um because they can go somewhere else that might offer them some more options. Mm
Speaker: options However, um i think it's a perfect opportunity um for a program like Timurnuk to come into a school. And I've been doing a lot of thinking about... um you know how we can make, and I've talked to Angie too, but how we can make um Timber Nook more accessible to schools. And so instead of, and it's a big ask to be able to like, you guys have to, and you've done this with Seton Academy, it's a lot of training. You have to send a lot of people. It takes time out of um your day. And it's one more initiative that teachers are doing. And that sounds really, really scary. the end of the day, because you're like, you just learned how to do this new math program that we took on and you just learned how to do this new ELA program. And now your kids have to be on their devices and doing their, um, you know, critical thinking that is on a computer, which doesn't make sense to me anymore. But, um, so you've got all these things and you're constantly having something else shoved in your face, a teacher. And I, just think schools could be accessing Timber Nook in other ways by like satellite programs or like,
Speaker: And coming to, there's i there's a lot of schools that come to the Barrington site for field trips and regularly and yeah um and are accessing it that way. But utilizing some of those schools because we live in a state that we do, and there are many other schools that Timbernook is, states that Timbernook is in,
Speaker: there are you have like outdoor classroom spaces. like How can you utilize those without having to train your whole staff and how can your staff be support for that? yeah um Because your staff and your kids need that time. like People come out. I had a parent who was doing some bartering with me because we can do that in our own programs. um And so i needed like some extra help and so she cleared all my background stuff and she was like, anytime, anytime, help I can help. And her friend commented to me the other day that She said, I, she spent five hours with you out in the woods with the kids. It was freezing. She was so cold. It was like early this sp spring. and We had the fire pit going. it was like a magical day out there for me. um We had like 10 kids and it was just fun. And it was, um for those of you that don't know me, I have a brand new site. So we're still building our capacity. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: um But it was just a really fun day. And she said, I saw this girl, at this woman, and she was like, it looked like she had rested for like a full night. She was just so calm and her face was like relaxed and she, her whole nervous system was reset just by being out in the woods with the kids. yeah um And if it's doing that for her, imagine what it's doing for the kids. Yeah. but i think that's the important part too and that's a big sell for schools right now which i don't think anyone is tapping into yeah um enough is that your your adults need this time as much as your kids do and it could just change your culture so drastically i didn't even think of that thank you for sharing that and for people listening we do offer timber nook offers um a certification for schools the nitty-gritty of it i'm not
Speaker: 100% confident to speak on but hopefully we'll have somebody on that will kind of talk about that and what that looks like Camden is a part of a Timberduck certified school sure you can probably speak on it more than I can but and I don't want to take away from the Timberduck schools but I just how can we make it accessible to more schools oh yeah absolutely absolutely no 100% it's a great thing to think about yeah Let's see.
Speaker: Where are we at here? um I think it's about time for our Timber Nook tidbit. We have gone, i think about halfway. So um your action item for today is that the next time outdoor play or play time is on the chopping block in your school, um push back.
Speaker: Push back. Don't be don't be scared. um Their research is there to support you. um It consistently shows that children who have access to child-led movement and outdoor time demonstrate improvements in attention, self-regulation, and classroom readiness. um Access to recess and outdoor play isn't a luxury or a reward. It's foundational support for the very learning outcomes the schools are trying to achieve.
Speaker: That's our Timber Nook tidbit for today. So I've heard about this new thing called the Say Yes to Recess. I don't really know much about that. Can you tell me what's going on with that? So it actually came across my feed a few weeks ago on Facebook. And I was like, I love this. Like, this is amazing. But then I've started hearing more about it and reading. And I actually, because I don't have enough things to do, have thrown my hat to the ring of like, i want to go to the, they're having like a virtual meeting coming up. But I,
Speaker: As a teacher, when you say extra recess and not as a Timberknock provider, but as a teacher in a school, when I'm like, you have to do 40 minutes of recess, that is like asking me to like.
Speaker: hand staple standardized tests for the entire district by myself. And then like lick the envelopes that they all need to go in. It is, that is, that sounds like awful. Like that's something that you would do like an April fool's joke to like a teacher because a lot of our playgrounds and schools are lovely and beautiful or ancient and still provide some opportunities, but it's adult directed. So those kids are,
Speaker: They're looking for stuff to do. And so we're always saying, don't hit, don't chase, don't do this, don't do this. um Don't hit the ball, don't run into the road, like to get the ball, like blah, and like all these things, but we're not putting stuff out for it to be child directed. So I've been at a school where we had four square and all the teachers did out there were like, it's your turn. Oh goodness. You have to go next because they're like policing the four square.
Speaker: But again, it's okay not to share. So like, you can keep playing that with the four kids if you want, because when they're done, they're done. But it's it makes me very nervous that we're having this movement of say yes to recess, which is amazing and getting kids outside. But I'm not sure how many people in a school are actually behind that right now.
Speaker: like if we had loose parts or um like a different kind of area that we were using as a playground, because kids are gonna figure out what to do with the stuff that they have. They're gonna climb on the top. Like my son's only almost two and I could see him like climbing up the swing. Like he would just be like, guys, I wanna do that. And like swinging on their bellies and going up the slide. And so if we have these adult directed rules, because then your you know your hands are tied a little bit with insurance, like at a school, um but it's not child directed. And so saying you're going to throw these kids out for 45 minutes is amazing. And they're getting fresh air, but like, are they dressed appropriately in the winter? Um, are the parents prepped for what they're going to be doing? Are there loose parts out there? Or is it just playground equipment?
Speaker: Are the adults directing what balls are available for them to play or are the kids being asked? And, The perfect example of that, and you can relate to me, I have a baby as well. You buy your baby all these toys and all these great things, and you put them in front of their face, and what do they do? They crawl over to the cardboard box the dog water bowl. My daughter always goes over the dog water bowl, the slap in the butt sensory experiences. They always want to do that. They want to go figure it out on their own. They don't want you to put it in their face say, do this. There's a difference between recess and Timber Nook. Yes. Yes. And recess and free play. And recess and free play. Yes, absolutely. Um, like we've talked about before, Timber Nook is based on a developmental model and the way that we interact with kids and set up the environment is much different than, um, providing kids with a structured place, play structure and a ball, like you said, and policing the four square. It's a very different, um, So I think it's a fantastic movement. It's coming from a good place. However, you know, I'm trying to stick my big toe a little bit and try not to get on my soapbox too much in the group because I'm brand new to it. And I just sort of want to see where it's going to go. But they are looking to pass bills like in different states. um awesome
Speaker: You know, but I think we need to get like the child's playwrights maybe be passed first and like with the UN so that we can be with other European schools that we're in the UN n with. So I just think it's...
Speaker: It's a very interesting topic. I love it. I love where it's going. But I think we're going to need to support schools if we say that they're going to do that because that's not fair and to the kids or the staff or anybody. Absolutely. And I think that's what Timbernoe is aiming to do is provide support to schools through being Timbernoe certified. um I know, again, I'm not the the expert on the Timber Nook Certified School aspect of it, um but I do know that they have like charts for the teachers for what to wear, like to send to the parents and you know all of that, um the logistics of it. You're being supported in that way because you're right.
Speaker: The last thing that we want to do is throw something new at teachers. We understand that teachers are overwhelmed, overworked. um We want to support them through offering Timber Nook because through Timber Nook, these kids are going to be more, they're going to access that ready to learn.
Speaker: They're going to be calm and alert. where That's what we're aiming for from from an arousal state, um at least from an occupational therapy perspective of your nervous system. like Hopefully, that is what we are able to provide for schools, and that's what the research suggests currently.
Speaker: We're not trying to add something different on your plate. Trust me. helping and get them ready to learn. Yeah. And you've seen that firsthand. So thank you for your perspective. It's really um your experience is really valuable for that. And I'd like to say something from because you were saying you don't really know how to the schools take it and how the teachers are.
Speaker: I thought it was going to be a lot when I first got trained. And I was like, like you said, here's another thing I have to do. But like you said earlier, it's a great refresh for the adults. I go out there and I feel great afterwards. It's it's not a break, obviously, because we're... Just because we're sitting out there not with the kids, we're still actively watching and learning.
Speaker: But just being out there connected with nature and seeing what great effects this have on the kids, it's just refreshing. And like we were talking about with the screens, there's no screens. It's just... It's ah almost a treat for to be out there. And because kids are able to self-regulate so much easier in that environment and pull themselves where they need to go or give themselves what they need. It's um a lot of my kids that come to Timbernook from public schools. They're always like, oh, can I do this? Can I do that? And I have to remind them, there's not a lot of no here. Like you can do what you need to do right now. The more boundaries you have, the more boundaries for them to push. That's why Timber Nook's biggest thing is creating that yes environment where yes there's really no way to say no, basically. Yes. Very, very, they're predictable safety boundaries.
Speaker: um Respect nature, respect each other, or respect nature. it's alive, it stays alive. We've had to have that talk of salamanders a lot this spring. Yeah. Be kind to nature, be kind to materials, and then be kind to yourself and others.
Speaker: And always see a teacher. Those are our foundational rules. I feel like those are... Don't see a teacher, but make sure you can always see a teacher. Always see a teacher. Exactly.
Speaker: Let's talk about your personal Timbernook experience in your site that you've just opened up. um Is there a child from your site whose story illustrates what happens when a kid is given back the space to play freely outdoors?
Speaker: So I've had a lot of kids that have had some revelations since they've been there, but I... probably one sticks out my head. He's so sweet. um He's on my the younger side for like my group, but he has learned so many self-regulation skills all on his own. And he kind of went from a kid that would have like a major meltdown, like if he tripped or fell or felt like someone was doing something wrong. And he...
Speaker: I get to have him on my Mondays. So he comes like with my Monday kids for four hours and he is just watching the growth that he has made is incredible. Like i I, love spending time with him. I love watching him interact with the kids. When he needs a minute, he definitely breaks off into like smaller groups. And it's just very interesting of how he interacts with play schemes of the day um and watching his imagination because he really embodies what a Timbernut kid is and what they can become. yeah um And it's just, it's been amazing watching him for almost a year. They've been with me since I opened. so Wow. Yeah, that is, that's great. That's amazing.
Speaker: And you said like, it's been about a year, about a year since you've opened. Um, I've been throughout one, we call it little wild ones, but it's one um year program from September to June. I just finished my first one and I have to say i have seen so much growth in some of these kids through like from September to now like you were saying the self-regulation skills we're actually we had a group of OT students who are measuring these things um and just making different goals for these kids from timber note perspective
Speaker: And there are real measurable changes that we have noticed on a one-to-one level in how they are dealing with their emotions, how they're dealing with um frustration and conflict. yeah conflict their their Their cognitive flexibility and frustration tolerance has improved. um Interpersonal skills, like it has just been amazing.
Speaker: Communication is a huge Communication, it's been so eye-opening. So thank you for sharing that. Because it's after one year, I'm like, wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, same. i like that Right here at my school, same thing. We'll have some of the students in the toddler class that are going in the beginning of the year. are my They are awesome. they like As soon as their foot would hit that dirt out at Timber Nook, just immediately start bawling their eyes out. And then now there's one specific kid that I'm picturing my head who now immediately will run out there, start.
Speaker: I mean, we do circle obviously first, but then he'll he'll start going and just going into free play, has a great time, laughs, plays with his friends. And it's just really awesome to watch, especially when you watch those little ones at the beginning of the year.
Speaker: who don't know how to play together really or use their imagination just all of a sudden they're doing it all. It's really cool to see. I have a really special site too. um So it's at my property.
Speaker: sorry everybody um It's been in my family for over 200 years, our property. wow So that's it's so cool to be able to share with people. And my grandparents were really big stewards of the land and our community as a town. And so it is awesome um for me to be able to watch people come enjoy our property too. And it's just, um I have it really hidden down in our woods. We have 30 acres and the nook is like, we've kept it really magical. So like you walk down our big camp road, it gets narrower. We go off a little path and it's super narrow. And then it opens up into like this really cool hemlock forest. That's amazing. So the kids get down there and they're just like, this is like so i like I feel like I'm going to Narnia or something. They're just me so, they're awesome. that So to see the look on their faces every time they come down, especially like new kids though.
Speaker: Oh, that's amazing. thing Love my job. so And for people who don't know what we call the woods area, the space that is like reserved for the kids and that is set up for them in the way that timber nook is. Yeah. Is, is supposed to be, is called the nook. So that's also our podcast, but also an actual place for a lot of kids. Yep.
Speaker: Yep. Every Timber Nook will have the Oh, yeah. um Thank you so much for joining us. This has been so informative. I've learned so much about the perspectives from a teacher perspective, an administrative perspective, and a Timber Nook provider. Look, it's just an amazing um wealth of experience and knowledge that you have. So thank you for sharing that with us in our audience. And we hope to have you on soon. There you go. Have how things are going. It's amazing. Yeah.
Speaker: And just where can people find you if they're looking to get connected with your Timber Nook site or if you have social medias, like what, where can they get connected? So we're Timber Nook site in Northwood, New Hampshire. So we're kind of on the Concord side. So we are closer to like Concord and Pittsfield and Barnstead and Hopkinton and um It's a great little kind of site. It's super close right off Route 4, so we're not far from Johnson's Brewery, too. So people know that as a landmark. We're like two minutes from there. But you can follow us. We have a Facebook page, Timmer Nook Northwood.
Speaker: And same thing for Instagram. We're really active. We're always posting what kids are doing. And um it's just a good a good snippet of what the Nook is like at our our site. so Great. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker: Sounds good. we'll We'll link those in the description. Yes. And for all you guys out there, remember to go like, subscribe, and follow, repost, whatever you're watching on. Just make sure you get us out there.
Speaker: And if you'd like to look right at that camera and say, remember to play the Timbernook way. Remember to play the Timbernook way. ah See you next time. See you later.
