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Episode 058 - An All Time Low!? Southampton Match Reaction image

Episode 058 - An All Time Low!? Southampton Match Reaction

S1 E58 · Daily West Ham
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In the aftermath of an embarrassing 1-1 draw with Southampton, Tom and Jacob look at what went wrong in this game. The boys discuss where the fault lies in not beating one of the worst teams in Premier League History and try to look forward in a positive way! (which is pretty tough at the moment)

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Transcript
00:00:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of the Daily GSPN West Ham podcast. I'm joined by Jacob again. how are you doing, Jacob?
00:00:16
Jacob
ah Yeah, not too bad. are you doing?
00:00:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
I am not good. Not good at all. The recent game against Southampton, I think everyone is still kind of...
00:00:24
Jacob
Okay.
00:00:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
I don't know if shock is the right word because it's kind of... It's a complete capitulation of... any sort of hope that we had that things were going to get better. And I don't think it's anything that is kind of completely surprising to a a lot of West Ham fans. You know, this season we have been really poor and this game was such a ah prime example of how we are not good enough this year.
00:00:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
You look at this Southampton team, they are not good. You know, they're one of the worst Premier League teams in history. And to not take all three points off of them is it's kind of embarrassing, to be honest. What what are your thoughts about that?
00:01:08
Jacob
Yeah, I think we spoke before um and I remember saying that you know anything but three points and we're going come away disappointed. So i think it just comes down to the the way the scene season has been as a whole.
00:01:28
Jacob
you know Just disappointing, you know good moments, but not being able to capitalise and come away with wins when we we really should be.
00:01:42
Jacob
Like you said, to to do it to a team, for it to happen against a team that have already technically gone down, it's like, how can you expect to to win against anyone else? you know and that scenario, if we can't if we can't stop ourselves conceding against one of the worst ever Premier League teams you know in the final...
00:02:06
Jacob
one of the final minutes of the game. um Then, you you know, even in the manner that the goal came, you know, it wasn't a brilliant goal by any stretch. But just allowing that to happen is is something that we've done too often.
00:02:24
Jacob
um And it's it's led to exactly what we saw. We didn't have a huge amount of chances. um We had a fair amount of shots. And none of them being that huge except for the goal. We had an XG of 0.91, which for once we've actually yeah out outperformed our XG. But yeah, it's just disappointment, isn't it? It's kind of like we're not watching the games now thinking we're going to get anything from them. We're thinking how...
00:03:02
Jacob
How bad can this be? Not how good could it possibly be? how How well could we but you know play this game? We're thinking, oh, how bad it going to be? How disappointed will we be at the end?
00:03:19
Jacob
And it's not the way we should be looking at it. We we came into the season with such high hopes based on our ah you know transfer market and and the performances haven't been there to match it.
00:03:35
Jacob
And, you know, think Potter is in a pretty harsh position where very little of it can be blamed on him. You know, he's a ah very experienced manager at this point and has good ideas and, you know, has good connections and has had success elsewhere.
00:04:00
Jacob
so yeah, it's just a, a bit of a anti-climax at this point, mixed with kind of tiredness of of what we've seen.
00:04:13
Jacob
um And that that game is a prime example of sort of exciting moments, but when it comes to it, not actually being able to seal the deal and being left disappointed again.
00:04:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I think the point about how much blame rests on Poster is an interesting one because I've seen quite a large amount of discourse around this, like trying to work out what the actual problem is with West Ham at the moment because there's clearly some issue that isn't being resolved.
00:04:34
Jacob
Mm-hmm.
00:04:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
So when you you look at the conversations that are happening, I'm starting to hear an increase in the amount of questions being asked about the job that Graham Potter is doing.
00:04:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
Personally, I think I agree with you. I think it's really tough to to judge Potter really harshly when the situation that he came into was so poor. like the The start of the year was so poor and the feeling around the club was really negative. And Lopetegui left with a bit of a mess. you know the The whole club...
00:05:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
You look at the the feeling around the board has never really been amazing, but recently it's maybe slightly got a little bit worse. And then, especially after all the positive signings we make, to then be so poor, so many questions have been unanswered the whole season about why we aren't doing as well as we should be.
00:05:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Potter's come in, he's had a couple of decent games, but for the large part, it's been relatively similar to how it was under Lopetegui. So, I think the question about how much blame to put on Potter is it's an interesting one. I don't think you can really put too much on it because of you know the way that he did come into such a terrible situation.
00:05:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
How much of it do you think rests on Potter? Could he be doing a better job or is it kind of him trying to get the most out of a situation that's going to be pretty poor no matter what?
00:06:09
Jacob
It is difficult and i yeah I think there's always... People always want to have one thing to point the blame at which can um sort of make them feel better about the situation.
00:06:24
Jacob
You know, like this is happening, this is the reason, you know, this is how we resolve it. But, you know, i't i really don't think it's as simple as that. And I think, you know, how...
00:06:37
Jacob
how easy it is for ah for a club to sack a manager nowadays. you know They come and go so much, move around all over the place. and i really Even if you think that the job he's done so far isn't the best, that's fair enough. But I really don't think in this amount of time that he's been here, I don't think you can you can really judge it like that. you know He's barely had long enough to decide who his best team are and have all his players at full strength and actually really make any signings that he actually wants.
00:07:17
Jacob
um So I think it would be harsh to to say that Potter is doing a bad job because, you know, had this been Potter from the start, would we be in the same place? I don't think so. I think the cohesion in the team would be a lot better, I think.
00:07:35
Jacob
he would have made some different signings. Not to say the signings we made were bad, but I'm sure it would have been different to Lopetegui's. um It's difficult because we we like Potter. you know we We want to see him succeed. We want to see him do well.
00:07:54
Jacob
um a so It might sound a bit Brexit, but it's nice to see a English manager who's passionate and, you know, can have that connection with our English players and the academy and, you know, his connections in the England set up, I'm sure. And, you know, he's been around Premier League clubs and I really don't think anybody should be kind of thinking negatively about him.
00:08:25
Jacob
um And I think kind of we have to keep our kind of ah keep our opinions open about him and just kind of trust in him for now. um After what we've what we started the season with, you know, we've got to be positive somewhere.
00:08:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I agree. The situation that we're in, we can't really afford to just continue to be negative because it seems like the situation we're in is really bad and the performances haven't been good.
00:08:53
Jacob
No.
00:09:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
So we can either choose to try and be positive, choose to try and look at the situation more broadly instead of just being really upset that it still isn't good because like ultimately maybe at this moment in time there's not really a lot that we can do to improve it and I know that the performance can be good and and tactically especially in this game I don't think we looked strong at all I don't think it was a game where we were really trying to put the press on Southampton like we should have done but at the same time let's say we do sack Potter now who who do we get into replacing what sort of
00:09:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
what sort of state are we leaving the club in that this next person is then going to have to go and try and salvage? We think that Potter came into a poor situation. Surely the situation that the next manager comes into, if we just get rid of Potter is going to be just as worse.
00:09:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
If not, I'd say probably a little bit worse, to be honest. Um, so yeah, I think we have to be patient.
00:09:55
Jacob
Mm-hmm.
00:09:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
We have to try and accept where we are at the moment and not get too down about that situation as a whole. Um, Okay, we're going to go to our first advert. When we get back, I want to look at the game a little bit more specifically.
00:10:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
So, looking at the actual performances of players on the pitch and the way that the game went, it was very much a kind of classic West Ham performance to me, to be honest, especially this season.
00:11:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
It just wasn't good enough. Like, and i know that's quite a basic thing to say, but we don't seem to have that kind of killer instinct. I think Fulker looks really positive.
00:11:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
His impact on the game in the final third, I think he's so good. And every time he has come on, He's looked really positive. He's contributed with goals and assists where he can in a team that has been really poor. And when, you know, he is coming back from this massive injury and has been used pretty sparingly. Like he started a few games, he's come off the bench quite a lot. so in terms of him personally, I think he's looked relatively good.
00:11:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
Jared Bowen obviously contributing, scoring ah the most quintessential Jared Bowen goal you could possibly imagine.
00:11:44
Jacob
Mm-hmm.
00:11:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's just the cohesion and the way that we play as a unit. It just doesn't seem to be there at all. like Defensively, we look shaky at best. The midfield, we've really struggled to nail down what the midfield combination is going to be.
00:12:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
i think that it's been difficult when we haven't had a striker because we've been playing Bowen and Kudis up front, which has meant we'd play more in the midfield to kind of compensate for the loss of those two. so It is tough, but the team that we started in this game is so much better than that west um that Southampton team.
00:12:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
We have the quality and we had the quality to win, but we just couldn't see it through.
00:12:20
Jacob
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:12:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
It seemed like as soon as we went up, we kind of stopped then going for the killing blow. We didn't want to go two up or three up. We were relatively content with the 1-0 and as the game started to press on, Southampton realised that they didn't have a choice and they just went for it.
00:12:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
And them getting that equaliser is so demoralising for us because this is like one of the worst Premier League teams in history and they've just put the pressure on for the final half an hour of a game and got an equaliser in the extra time.
00:12:51
Jacob
yeah
00:12:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
So really demoralising and not good enough. But is it a surprise and is it something that we haven't seen this season? No, we've we've seen it quite a few times.
00:13:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
So is it it's a really difficult one to take.
00:13:08
Jacob
Yeah.
00:13:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:13:10
Jacob
I'd, you know, i would, like like you said on paper, I'd argue we, you know, we are a very competitive team, and or should at least should be a very competitive team, you know, there's there's not really an area where you'd say we lack at this stage, like having Fulker back and, you know, you can see the impact he has being a sort of a target man, being a source of making things happen.
00:13:49
Jacob
I think something that's very evident when you watch us, it looks like we're still kind of lacking ideas is probably the best way I'd describe it, but there's not enough passing options. There's not enough, you know, clever runs being made.
00:14:06
Jacob
You watch a team like, for example, Aston Villa, you watch them and, you know, they've got Rodgers, Ramsey, um Asensio, you know, they're all, all want to get on the ball. They all make themselves available to get the ball.
00:14:26
Jacob
And if they're not, they're sprinting forwards, ah trying to get in behind or they're dropping in to try and win it. That is not something that we see a huge amount from our team. We, at times, you know, James Ward-Prowse will stand there with the ball or Soler will stand there with the ball looking for options. And,
00:14:48
Jacob
they have to play they have to play a risky pass and it backfires on us.
00:14:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah Yeah.
00:14:53
Jacob
And we just look like options are so limited. There's no fluency or there's there's no sort of cutting edge in our play.
00:15:04
Global Sports Podcast Network
The lack of options.
00:15:04
Jacob
when When a player has... Yeah, it it really is.
00:15:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
So for sure.
00:15:08
Jacob
There's no kind of link from from midfield to attack. It's kind of like... certain players taking responsibility like Bowen to make things happen.
00:15:22
Jacob
Not any kind of fluidity in the team where we can knock the ball around a load and then and then put it in.
00:15:34
Jacob
you know It doesn't seem to happen.
00:15:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Nice. Hmm.
00:15:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
no
00:15:40
Jacob
Sorry about the the little technical issue there. um But the point I was trying to make is just that we really, despite having a lot of creative and talented attacking players, there just seems to be, ah don't know what it is.
00:15:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I think when you're talking about the the kind of words you would use to describe the performance, for me it's lack of tactical understanding and cohesion and just a lack of tenacity, to be honest.
00:16:01
Jacob
Maybe it's the confidence. Maybe it's the pressure of a poor season and, you know, not wanting to take risks, maybe that's part of it, where we just at times look like we're making it up as we go along.
00:16:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think when you're talking about midfield players getting it and having to kind of wait for something to wait for a passing option or or wait for someone to make a run or
00:16:17
Jacob
And it's still the case now, you know, yeah we can't really say things have worsened, but it's still not enough, is it?
00:16:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
wait for someone to get into space to receive a pass it seems like there is always a one or two seconds where think particularly James Will Prowse he gets the ball and he looks up and there's not really anything for him to do that's kind of progressive or with enough tactical now to actually benefit us when it comes to generating attack so he gets the ball and he passes it to Soler and then Soler just passes it to the fullback and it seems like we do a lot of
00:16:27
Jacob
Clearly. um So yeah i would say, you know, we hope we're hoping it's going to pick up, but realistically, if we're not doing it against Southampton, should we really be doing it against anyone else? to Do we have it in us?
00:16:44
Jacob
I think that's the question.
00:16:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
back and forth and shuffling it around. But there's no reason behind why we're doing that. It seems like we're doing it just to keep hold of the ball and not lose it, which I think shows in the lack of attacking threat that we do possess in these games.
00:17:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Fulcrook, I think, definitely improves it because as a spearhead and of the attack, he is much better, I think, naturally than Bowen or Kudus. So hopefully improves. And I think the longer that he does start and the more minutes he gets, the better we will be able to utilise his skillset, which is striker.
00:17:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
If we can create chances of him, he will score. So i think there are some, somehow, some slight positives going forward. You know, you look at The way that he has played is really good and Bowen being as consistent as he has been this season, as he is all seasons, you know he's having another great year. So obviously terrible result, but there are some positives going forward.
00:17:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
Okay, we're going to get to our last advert now. And when we get back, I'd like to look forward, talk about potentially some things that have to change before the next game and just kind of general what's happening in West Ham towards the end of the season.
00:18:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
So looking forwards, what do you think has to change when it comes to not just overall team performance, but maybe individually and looking at team selection as well to be able to get something out the next game?
00:18:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
Playing Brighton is going to be a tough game. So yeah, what has to change?
00:18:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:18:52
Jacob
Yeah, I mean, that kind of seems to be something we say almost every week. You know, how how can we be different to last time? How can we make more of the chances that we have?
00:19:07
Jacob
I think having Fulker again, you know, hopefully being nearly back at full fitness, I think he's got to start now. You know, we can see that the influence and the impact he has his um you know, his constant pressure on the defenders is it something that we've not really been able to show up until now.
00:19:32
Jacob
um I think I would like to see Suchek back in um just purely because of that goal threat that he's got and the reliability that he has. you know I know that's not to say that either Soler or James Ward-Prowse necessarily deserve to be left out, but I think if there's a way you get them all in while still being attacking enough, then by all means do that. But ah think you know
00:20:05
Jacob
ah think something that we we also need to think about with the with our players is what are they really playing for at this point? Some of them, or in fact many of them at this stage are potentially thinking about where they're going to be playing next season and are thinking do I really need to put my heart and soul on the line here to so win games when i don't really benefit from it? Yeah, maybe I will impress people if I perform well but at the same time, you know, you look at Kudus and
00:20:41
Jacob
it is very likely that he'll leave. And people know of his ability already. you know it doesn't If he plays good or bad in the next few games, I don't think that is going to change any teams that are already looking at him. I don't think that will change their opinion of him or that you know potentially wanting to bring him in. And I think stuff like that must sway you. you know if you if you don't feel like you're in it um
00:21:12
Jacob
any anymore. If you don't see yourself there next season, then that has got to have an impact on how you play and the amount you give to the team and to the fans.
00:21:25
Jacob
um is you know It's a very negative thing to say, but I think we have to be realistic how many of those players that are out there have have we heard rumours about not being there next season.
00:21:38
Jacob
um And then it's basically start from scratch, isn't it? So i think I'd love to see them play better. You know, that's the most obvious thing I could have said. But
00:21:51
Jacob
ah we how how much the same are we going to be next season? Are the players going to perform to the best of their abilities now when they haven't for the majority of the season? It's tough to say, but you know There's a few in there that we really hope don't leave.
00:22:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, of course. It's how much of the players' motivations are going to actually are determined by wanting club to succeed and how much is it people have either just checked out, so aren't really trying as much as they potentially could, or are potentially playing for a move away, which
00:22:11
Jacob
and There's some that we know won't leave and there's some that we think for the right amount they probably will. you know There's very little pull or kind of attraction for for some of them players for them to actually stay.
00:22:26
Jacob
you know If they've not they're not lifelong fans or you know they've not built much of a life in East London or you know
00:22:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
Obviously, you'd rather them be playing well, but if they're playing well for a move away, then looking forward into the summer, it's going to be really difficult for us to try and build when we lose so many players.
00:22:37
Jacob
the the promise of European football somewhere elsewhere or a bigger paycheck, that that will always attract them.
00:22:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
We're going to have to have a really good transfer window if we do lose a load of players.
00:22:46
Jacob
So that is something we have to be mindful of and then just try and rebuild.
00:22:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
i You kind of understand why players might want to move on because they look at how we've been this season and under two managers, it hasn't really worked.
00:22:52
Jacob
I've gone off a little bit there, but I kind of think you see but i think you see my point.
00:22:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
So why would they think that suddenly next season is going to change? And if they feel like they should be playing or challenging for European football, you know, that all makes perfect sense.
00:23:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
But it's just difficult to accept when, you know, we've got such a talented squad and we have...
00:23:10
Jacob
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:23:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
a squad that I feel like could potentially develop into something really nice with a couple more additions. I think there's a a couple of players that we probably could move on and it wouldn't be the end of the world. But I think, like you say, there are some that we would lose and it would be devastating. You know, the likes of Kudus and Paqueta, I think the links of Fulker going i would devastate us as well because he looks like he's starting to become a really good player. You think financially as well.
00:23:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
Are we going to be able to make any money on him? Probably not. we're going to be making a loss on a player that hasn't really played any games for us. You look at the defence as well. I don't think Tadipo is guaranteed to be signed permanently.
00:23:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
think that one is still kind of... I think there is leeway there. And it wouldn't surprise me if he wanted to go back to... It was Juventus he was from, wasn't it?
00:24:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
pretty sure it was Juventus. Oh, was it Nice? Nice. but i think Juventus, well, Nice, you can kind of understand him potentially wanting to go back and then maybe find another suitor in a ah position where they can offer him European football. So it's a really tough time.
00:24:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
We just have to be really smart with the decisions that we make about who stays and who goes. Because if people want to go, i don't think you can really force them to stay. If they're not playing well this season in a time when...
00:24:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
there is potential for us to potentially push up the table and just playing for the club. and not There shouldn't have to be a reason for you to want to play well for West Ham. That should be an intrinsic value.
00:24:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
And if you don't have that now, then after not being allowed to leave, it's only going to get worse.
00:24:54
Jacob
ah Nice.
00:24:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
so if players want to leave, you kind of have to let them to an extent.
00:24:55
Jacob
Nice.
00:24:59
Jacob
Nice.
00:24:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
But if that happens, we have to be smart about the money we're getting for them. And then the reinvestment has to be smart as well, which Under Graham Potter, I would be relatively confident that he would be able to make smart signings because of the work that he's done at Brighton.
00:25:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
You know, the system they had there, whether it was completely his doing or not, that the system was the way it was, he's been influenced by and he's what a good system looks like. So that can only work positively for us. So yeah, it is going to be a difficult one.
00:25:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
I hope that Graham Potter has a little bit more kind of reason to want to win against Brighton because he was their old manager so you know I think any manager that moves on and comes back to face one of the teams that they used so to manage they always want to do well because it's a ah sign that they they're a better manager than they were and if it was you know their choice to leave which it was Graham Potter's choice to leave whether they were vindicated in making that decision so it's hopefully going to be a good game what are your predictions for the game
00:25:46
Jacob
Yeah.
00:25:49
Jacob
yeah
00:26:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mm-hmm.
00:26:07
Jacob
um I think
00:26:10
Jacob
if I'm being realistic, I think they're going to beat us. um And I think they're probably going to beat us comfortably, and which i i would normally, ah think, be a little bit more optimistic. But I think the attacking threat that they've got and the the confidence that they probably have, I think is going to be too much for us and anything I would say i could see ah probably a 2-0, I would say.
00:26:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think I agree with everything you've said, but I find it really difficult to predict West Ham losses. So I'm going go 2-1 to West Ham.
00:26:45
Jacob
and
00:26:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think we...
00:26:46
Jacob
ah really hope it's not the case and I hope, like you said, I hope Potter may be having ah an insight there and wanting to show what they're, you know,
00:26:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
don't think we play particularly well, but if we can just get full group of service, then I think he can score. And actually looking at the team form, our form is slightly better than theirs.
00:26:59
Jacob
what they're missing.
00:26:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
Ours are both pretty poor.
00:27:00
Jacob
ah I hope that comes out in the game, but I think it will be hard to kind of enviage envisage anything else happening.
00:27:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
In the last five games, we've lost two games, drawn three. Brighton have lost three, drawn two. So they aren't a team that are red hot right now.
00:27:09
Jacob
and Unless we get some, you know, serious fall crook magic or, you know, a couple of set piece goals.
00:27:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
So if there is a time to beat them, is it now? Maybe. I think...
00:27:19
Jacob
That's kind of that's kind of how I think it's going to be.
00:27:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
you know, looking at the way that Fulcru did play and the the link-up he was able to produce and the pass to Bowen for the goal, not necessarily the most beautiful, creative out-of-this-world pass, but it was the right thing to do in the moment and he knows where to play the pass at the right time.
00:27:21
Jacob
What do you think? Do you feel a little bit more optimistic about it
00:27:36
Global Sports Podcast Network
And he does that perfectly and I think he does that quite a lot for our games.
00:27:37
Jacob
and I know.
00:27:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
He holds the ball really well, he recycles it really positively and he has shots.
00:27:40
Jacob
Okay.
00:27:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
i think every time he's come on the pitch, he's had at least a couple of good chances. So, Yeah, maybe naively, I'm going to say 2-1 to West Ham.
00:27:52
Jacob
Yeah.
00:27:53
Jacob
No, that's good point.
00:27:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
Goodbye.
00:27:55
Jacob
Mm-hmm.
00:28:05
Jacob
Okay, cool. All right, Len. Thank you very much for watching this episode of daily GSPM West End podcast. Say goodbye, Tom.
00:28:15
Jacob
um Please rate this podcast five stars and check out all the social media that's linked in the description. um There is a load of other GSPN podcasts you can check out if you want to. We've got the fantasy football, ah women's football wrap-up pods in multiple languages, and we've got the other team's daily podcasts as well.
00:28:38
Jacob
Thank you for listening, and we'll speak soon.