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Seven Pillars of Manhood – a conversation with Steve Seidel founder of Gents Journey
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Why is being a man so difficult in the twenty-first century?
Stephen Seidel is the founder of an eponymous PR and media agency in Lexington Kentucky. He is also a co-founder of Gents Journey, a network that supports men to live their best lives.
In this episode of Fit For My Age, Stephen explains to host Michael Millward why manhood and masculinity is in crisis with men losing sight of what it means to be a man.
Stephen explains the seven pillars of manhood
- Friendship
- Family
- Fun
- Focus
- Fitness
- Freedom
- Faith
Michael and Stephen discuss how men can use these seven pillars to Reconnect, Rebuild, and Reclaim their masculinity and vulnerability as men.
Find out more about Stephen Seidel and Michael Millward at Abeceder.co.uk.
Audience Offers - listings include links that may create a small commission for Fit For My Age that help keep Fit For My Age free to air.
Further Reading
Buy books by Joseph Campbell and books about Henry Ford from Amazon
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Fit For My Age' Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. Because Zencastr makes every stage of the podcast production and distribution processes so easy. Hello and welcome to Fit For My Age, the health and wellbeing podcast from Abbasida.
00:00:20
Speaker
I am your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida.
Exploring Positive Masculinity with Stephen Seidel
00:00:26
Speaker
Today I am learning about the seven pillars of manhood that support positive masculinity from Stephen Seidel, the founder of Gents Journey.
00:00:37
Speaker
Stephen is an award-winning founder, speaker and consultant with more than 15 years experience of building socially conscious brands on the foundation of a culture of positivity.
Benefits of the Ultimate Travel Club
00:00:49
Speaker
Stephen is based in Lexington, Kentucky. I have not been. if I get the opportunity to visit Kentucky, I will make use of my membership of the Ultimate Travel Club to arrange my travel.
00:01:03
Speaker
because as a member of the Ultimate Travel Club, I get to travel at trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays, and so many more travel-related purchases.
00:01:14
Speaker
You will find a link with a built-in discount on membership fees in the description so that you can travel at trade prices as well.
Podcast Engagement Encouragement
00:01:22
Speaker
Now that I have paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of Fit For My Age that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading, and subscribing to.
00:01:32
Speaker
and also worth telling your friends, family, and work colleagues about. Very importantly on Fit For My Age, we don't tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think.
00:01:43
Speaker
Hello, Steve. Hey there, Michael. How are you doing today? It's an honor to be here. but I'm doing very well, thank you very much, and I hope that you can say
Stephen Seidel's Mission and Gents Journey
00:01:50
Speaker
the same as well. Yes. How did you end up setting up something called Gents Journey?
00:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, thanks so much for asking. So when I was one, my parents divorced, you know, a lot of the DNA of who we are happens in our childhood, I became a people pleaser. And I was stuck in the middle of my parents, my dream was always to be a great father, because my dad was often traveling, but I learned the ability to connect. And so that's one of the key aspects of who I am is finding ways to connect. And oftentimes, that's through story. That's through presence, or that's through friendship. And so I've taken that through my life. I've had various jobs and positions.
00:02:27
Speaker
And, you know, I now have two daughters of my own, but my mission is still to make this world a better place for my children, future generations, and the vulnerable child, much like myself from a young age that lives within all of us.
Pandemic Challenges and Starting Gents Journey
00:02:40
Speaker
i'm Flash forward to 2020. twenty twenty twenty It was during the pandemic. I actually moved from California to Lexington, Kentucky. And it was the pandemic. We all know about the pandemic, but I had a one month old.
00:02:54
Speaker
I moved my job, which is the Seidel agency. i moved my family. i also moved myself to a new town. I had no friends. I was running a virtual company and the world had shut down. And then I found out my mom was diagnosed with cancer.
00:03:09
Speaker
And so that was by far the most challenging time in my entire life. And I knew i needed to do something about it because I had kids depending on me. I had my mother depending on me.
00:03:20
Speaker
I had myself depending on me. And so it wasn't an an option to just turn around and say, I can't do anything about it. I needed to figure out how I was going to get out of this hole. And so I decided to turn towards my growth friends. And I call my growth friends my friends that uplift me, they empower me, and they inspire me.
Supportive Friendships and Empowerment
00:03:40
Speaker
And so I took a piece of paper out and took a list of everybody that I knew that I felt could help me in this scenario. And so typically they were fathers, they were entrepreneurs because I wanted to bring and us together during times of the day that I needed a flexible schedule.
00:03:58
Speaker
They had a business that they were actually giving back towards. And it was somebody that had expressed friendship and vulnerability in the past. And so I asked all of these gentlemen to come to a Zoom call And the the gentleman that kept showing up again and again, there were five guys.
00:04:15
Speaker
It was Dean, it was Rob, it was Matt, it was Chris, and it was myself. And so we continued to meet week after week because I knew I was in a dark place and I needed a safe space to share what was really going on.
00:04:31
Speaker
um I couldn't turn to my wife. She was busy. I couldn't talk to you know my friends back home because you know they had their own families and they wanted to talk about sports. They didn't really want to get too deep.
00:04:41
Speaker
What I knew was I needed a place that I could reconnect to who I was, that I could rebuild through these relationships and then ultimately reclaim my power and my purpose.
00:04:52
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And so five years later, 2025, actually 2026, I'm sorry, 26 years later, um unfortunately, we lost my mom. um But this was one of the key positive elements that I was able to build from the experience. And then we named it Jen's Journey.
00:05:09
Speaker
And here we are.
Redefining Manhood: Gentleness and Vulnerability
00:05:10
Speaker
Cool. one of the things I'm picking up from that was that you talk about the seven pillars of manhood. But then you also talked about gentlemen and you called it gent's journey.
00:05:20
Speaker
So we're going to have to ask about the difference between man and manhood and gentlemen. And I'm aware that you're in the southern states of Kentucky and there's a very specific definition of ah of being a southern gentleman as well.
00:05:35
Speaker
ah Absolutely. So when we started this, we wanted to find a way where we could communicate with men in a way where they were gentle.
00:05:46
Speaker
Because at the core of who we are is vulnerability. And we sometimes scoff at the term vulnerability. i actually went to a meeting last night. It's called the Lexington Leadership Initiative. And they have something called the Fatherhood Initiative where men who are struggling with addiction, getting out of jail, we come together in a circle and we talk about how can we be a great father.
00:06:10
Speaker
And we talked about vulnerability and several people laughed and they didn't really feel comfortable. So our way to get in on the back door was to be gentle as a man. And that doesn't mean that you don't have power, that you don't have presence and that you don't have purpose, but it does mean that you're willing to share and to be vulnerable. And so one of the things that we talk a lot about is vulnerability is invincibility.
00:06:34
Speaker
And when you can honor who you are, in those tougher moments and those failures and how you handle loss, as opposed to how you handle your wins. If you can honor that and stand with that, then that's an admirable trait. And so that's where we came with gentle men and then manhood, you know, the seven pillars of
The Seven Pillars of Manhood Explained
00:06:57
Speaker
manhood.
00:06:57
Speaker
We felt that every man has to have a solid pat foundation. They need these pillars to place their laurels on. But too often, much like businesses, we all just go out and we go on a macro level, but it starts on a micro level, just like a tree. When a tree is formulating, it needs to have those roots so it has a solid foundation.
00:07:19
Speaker
And so these are our roots for a solid foundation. For any man, but for our particular group, we are gentle men because we are gentle, we are open, we are honest, and we're willing to share and support the wins of others.
00:07:34
Speaker
It sounds extremely, yeah, it sounds extremely positive. And when i'm listening to you, I'm thinking, I know I'm trying to be like that. As an individual, as an individual man, I know I'm trying to be like that.
00:07:47
Speaker
What are the seven pillars of manhood? Yeah, thanks so much for asking. When you say you're trying, i believe you are doing it. One thing that we talk a lot about in our group is with like Henry Ford, whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. So we try to empower our group to think that they can. And we say something, you know, I'm the type of man who gets up early if you're working on your New Year's resolutions, or I'm the type of man who can be held accountable for what I say and what I do.
00:08:15
Speaker
And so with that come the seven pillars of manhood, They are. We love alliteration. And the number seven, obviously, it's been proven is an easy way to remember things.
00:08:27
Speaker
The seven pillars are friendship, family, fun, focus, fitness, freedom, and faith. And we start with friendship because that's how our group came about.
00:08:41
Speaker
And that sense of connection and friendship, you know, you can be best friends ultimately with your spouse or your wife. That's what we hopefully aim to achieve is to be best friends with our loved ones.
00:08:53
Speaker
And we start with friendship because connection is at the core of how this group started because they were friends of mine, but we now are even more closely connected. And if you look at any Disney movie or any major successful film that you've ever watched.
00:09:09
Speaker
There's a really great book called the hero's journey. And we are all heroes on our own journey. But the hero's journey by Joseph Campbell usually has a hero who's stuck with its inciting incidents. Something happens. Usually we call it bad.
00:09:23
Speaker
But what if that bad thing was actually good because it brought you to where you are today? But there's the inciting incident. And then usually they have a B storyline, which is a romance or it's a friendship. But at the end of the day, you'll usually see, especially with Disney, that there is a friendship that's formulated. but That friendship is truly what allows the person and their journey to get where they need to get to.
00:09:47
Speaker
And it's true for all of us. and that's why we start with friendship, because we all need friends. that we can talk to, that can see us, that can allow us to be ah felt, seen, and
True Friendship vs. Acquaintances
00:09:58
Speaker
heard. Really interesting, because going to schools and do presentations about the transition from education into employment and what I, as an ah HR professional, are going to ask a school leaver in a recruitment interview.
00:10:13
Speaker
And the things I'll say to them is I'm going to ask you about what you do away from school because we can be in environments where we think we've got friends but we're in an environment because we've been told to be there and the people that we acquaint ourselves with can merely be the other people that happen to be there.
00:10:34
Speaker
It's not the same as having someone who is a friend that you have shared interest with and who you care about, it's it's completely different. And I think a lot of people confuse acquaintances, colleagues, workmates as friends. And I think they are quite different, aren't they? 100%. one of the things that we created, it's called the Journey Deck, but we basically took 52 questions that kept coming up meeting after meeting.
The Journey Deck: Deepening Male Friendships
00:11:02
Speaker
And we created this deck so it could be a tool or a conversation starter for any man. And we don't want to talk about surface level BS, if you will. We want to go deeper. And these are questions that you will talk to a friend. And oftentimes, like you said, they may be a colleague or acquaintance, or maybe they're a best friend from our childhood.
00:11:21
Speaker
but we often don't really know the core of who they are and their essence and their soul so we created this card deck with really interesting questions you know such as you know who do you have to forgive or if you could thank one person who's not alive anymore who would it be or something as simple as this is a favorite one of ours what's your favorite sandwich?
00:11:40
Speaker
And when somebody talks about their sandwich, you learn a lot about them. You learn about their dietary restrictions. You learn about their hometown. You learn about where they've come from. You learn much more than just, you know, what the weather is like or what they did previous that day. Yes.
00:11:57
Speaker
And you're also asking them things which aren't the titles that they carry. You're not asking them about their job or If they have children or if they're divorced or married, anything like that, you're asking about things which are intrinsic to the individual, not things which are external. 100%. another thing, when you talked about friends and accomplices and acquaintances,
00:12:18
Speaker
We want to be mindful. You know, we are a product of the five closest individuals to us. Who are those people? Are we taking note of that?
Empowering Friendships and Personal Growth
00:12:27
Speaker
Are we communicating? Are we demanding respect? Are we showing up? Are we having fun with what we're doing?
00:12:33
Speaker
Who are they? Are they giving us energy? Or are they removing energy when we speak with them? And so that's part of when we meet in our group, we want to have gentlemen who are empowering us, but also educate them with what it is that we do around these seven pillars of manhood to be more reflectful.
00:12:50
Speaker
When you say educating people around the seven pillars of manhood, how do young men learn these seven pillars of manhood? It's a great question. How do they learn these seven pillars of manhood? There's a multitude of ways to work to learn these seven pillars. And that's what we merely call the seven pillars. I mean, there's tons of other individuals that may call them different things or have other programs. But for us, from a friendship, family, fun, focus, fitness, freedom, and faith perspective, we like to say a lot more is caught than taught.
00:13:21
Speaker
So it's a reflection of what we've learned, some of our learned behaviors, but being mindful um from an emotional intelligence quotient. When we talk about friendship, we want to be aware of the types of friends or if we talk about family.
00:13:36
Speaker
um When we're dealing with family, oftentimes we have habits or traits. or experiences that we fall back on. And so part of when we get together as a group, is we want to dissect some of these pillars of manhood, and further understand, again, for another one, you know, from a faith perspective, what are your spiritual tenets, you know, you don't need to believe in God or Buddha or Allah, but having a spiritual component in your life and realizing that there is a higher power has been proven time and time again, that it gives you a sense
00:14:12
Speaker
of belonging, it allows you to find a place for meaning.
Learning and Implementing the Seven Pillars
00:14:15
Speaker
And so each one of these is different. A lot of them are experiential, people learn in different ways. Some people learn by experiencing them, some people learn by hearing them, some people learn by reading them.
00:14:28
Speaker
We've tried a multitude of ways. We have weekly meetings with ourselves with the founders, but then we do a monthly meeting, where we invite our community to join and then we cover some of these things.
00:14:39
Speaker
We also have a newsletter, it's called Gents Weekly, and we send it out. it's that We call the manliest newsletter on the internet, but we send that out once a week on Monday.
00:14:50
Speaker
And we understand that sometimes men are facing a challenge, especially now with the rise of technology. It's disconnecting us you know emotionally.
Fostering Emotional Growth through Connections
00:15:01
Speaker
It's disconnecting us physically, intellectually. And so we are a virtual group, but we want to find ways that we can empower you to find a best friend, to put yourself in scenarios where you're getting outside of your cell phone or your gaming environment, or you're going to a sports event. And if you're going to a sports event, be curious, be open, aware.
00:15:28
Speaker
make eye connection, say hello to people. If there's a name tag on the guy who's serving you the French fries or the soda, ask them, Hey, tell me a little bit more about your name, who named you?
00:15:39
Speaker
Where where where did you come from? and Just find other ways that you can encourage and foster connectivity in your life because it's been studied and proven that it'll allow you to flourish.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yes. yeah it's a bit like an experience i had earlier today i am dealing with the customer services department of my bank and have to ask at the end of the call the person who'd been really good for me i asked him what's your name and he told me and then he started to spell it i said actually i think i know how to spell it and i told him how he spelled his name you could tell by the tone of his voice that he was really happy that I didn't need him to tell me how to spell his name.
00:16:22
Speaker
It's just a little thing. And it took two seconds to do. But I totally get what you mean. Creating some sort connection with the person that you're communicating with beyond what the transaction that you are engaged in with them brightens every everyone's day.
00:16:38
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think that the deeper that we can go, obviously it takes time, but just to simply look somebody in the eye, how often do you, do you look in the eye, look the other person in the eye? We've been trained with these mini computers in our hands where we're looking down the entire time and not paying attention and, and allowing this technology to give us everything.
00:17:01
Speaker
But if we open ourselves up, And we look around and we make connection and we look at the beauty in the world, the trees, like I talked about earlier, the clouds, the sky, all these things are gifts that are given to
Choosing Happiness and Active Participation
00:17:14
Speaker
us. And so that's what we do in terms of the seven pillars of manhood. We want to find portals or entry points where we can go deeper into our lives and not just become busy and a witnesser in our lives, but become active participants and find ways that we can
00:17:32
Speaker
build a life that we are happy about living because happiness at the end of the day is a choice that we can all make. Yes. I'm wondering, you know if someone new comes along to one of your meetings and you're talking about these seven pillars of manhood, which one is the one that people find easiest to identify examples that they are living that particular pillar, which is the easiest?
Engaging with Family and Fun
00:17:56
Speaker
The easiest. So usually the easiest is family because everybody has something with their family. I talked about it earlier when we were growing up with our mom and our dad. Usually when I say the easiest, that's the easiest one where they can go deep or, or to discover or identify areas that they could possibly improve or make changes towards, um, in terms of implementing them,
00:18:21
Speaker
I don't know that there's necessarily, we're not the gurus. We're not, we're just there to be a source to hopefully allow you to be a better man. And so in terms of implementation, another one that's really simple to implement is fun.
00:18:36
Speaker
At the end of the day, if it's fun, it gets done. And I myself, you know, I run an agency. i also run the Gents Journey. I find myself working all day than dealing with kids. And oftentimes i sacrifice my own wants and needs for my family or my children. And that's where it's up to us as individuals to create space, to create time. It's not going to just enter into our lives.
00:19:00
Speaker
And so getting up earlier or saying, look, Wednesday nights, Thursday nights, I'm going to start going out and playing tennis or playing basketball. But everybody knows what they enjoy to do.
00:19:11
Speaker
um For example, you know, going to a football match in the UK, you know, seeing people play soccer, that may be something that you really love to do. Well, you have to schedule that and make sure that that's a priority.
00:19:22
Speaker
And that's a really easy way to do that is to just simply identify, get out your phone, make a list of all the things that you enjoy doing. Or maybe you lose all aspect of time.
00:19:33
Speaker
Or maybe you find yourself looking on social media and it's the same thing that you're looking at every day. Or you look at the books on your desk and you see that they all have the common theme. These are areas that you can identify that you enjoy. So how can you continue to go deeper in those subjects? For me, I love magic.
00:19:53
Speaker
And when I was younger, I used to love magicians like David Copperfield and now David Blaine. And so one of the cool things about our journey card deck is it's a 52 card deck.
Using Magic and Stories for Connection
00:20:03
Speaker
And I like to go out on the streets and find strangers and ask them to answer a question. And I fan the cards like it's my own little magic card deck, but really the magic lies in you and your answer and your story.
00:20:15
Speaker
It's all sounds very well inspiring is a word that's coming to mind. And I'm wondering about the men who get involved with Jen's journey and the seven pillars of my hood, what type of changes are they sort of reporting about themselves to the rest of the group?
00:20:36
Speaker
Yeah. So previously we just had a meeting. Was it about a week ago? And this was a meeting. We've had meetings with, you know, 10, 20, 30, but we've had meetings with two, three, four, five people that show up. And at the end of the day, if if one man's life changes, obviously myself and my founders.
00:20:55
Speaker
we're changed by this, which is why we do it where this is more of a passion project than it is something where we're just, you know looking to make a bunch of money. It's how can we help men be better in their own lives personally and professionally.
00:21:07
Speaker
And it starts a lot personally, and then it spills over into that professional development into the
Stories of Growth within Gents Journey
00:21:13
Speaker
workplace. And so previously, We had a gentleman by the name of Scott and he came in and his pillar that he wanted to focus on was faith because he felt like you know he had been going and and and learning and reading scriptures and doing you know going to church, and doing some certain things, whatever whatever you subscribe to. But he had fallen off and he said, look, I want to be more consistent on this.
00:21:36
Speaker
want to make sure that I go... um once a week to meet with his church. And so we held him accountable. And he, ever since the meeting, he's been going more frequently. And he's reported back that his relationships with his wife has changed. His relationship with his son, he's become more present.
00:21:56
Speaker
His work, he's found that he's been more in alignment with fulfillment in his work and and not questioning every minor nuance and just knowing that everything is there for the right reasons. And then there's another gentleman, his name is John.
00:22:09
Speaker
He's worked in tech for about 35 years. He's about 65 years old. He's in Las Vegas. And he came to the group because he said, look, you know I've been going through life. I'm getting older. i wanted to get some new vibes, some new energy and to find myself to see if I could you know pick things back up. But he has ah he has a back that hurts him.
00:22:30
Speaker
And he's limited from a physical perspective. And so he's reported back that he's now doing stretches, working towards yoga, and now wanting to get a little bit more into walking more and potentially getting into a mile or a 3k or a 5k. But in addition to that, he's always wanted to write a book.
00:22:50
Speaker
And so for for him, one of the pillars he was focusing on was the fitness pillar as well as the focus. And so he was trying to focus more on how can he write this book? And so he broke it down into bite-sized pieces.
00:23:04
Speaker
But what's even cooler is let's say john wants to focus on the pillar of fitness but he also wants to focus on the pillar of fun you can do both at the same time it's not just one or the other i mean you can knock two out at the same time where he can go for a walk he can go with a friend that's the pillar of friendship and he can have fun because he can enjoy the conversation and so it's just a matter of finding different ways where we can make sure that we check off some of these boxes so that we feel a little bit more
00:23:37
Speaker
fulfilled, well-rounded, but at the end of the day, it's up to us to simply show up. Yes. I think with part of that is that there's obviously a lot of support within the Gents Journey community, but when you say at the end of the day, it's up to us to show up, it doesn't remove any of the responsibility for the actions which will create the outcome that you really want from you as an individual.
Self-responsibility and Community Support
00:24:07
Speaker
You can be held accountable by the group. you can Your friends can help you and support you to achieve it. But at the end of the day, the thing that really, i suppose, becomes part of the pillars of manhood or the wrapper is that you are responsible. You are a man. You are responsible for yourself, for your thoughts, your behaviors, your actions.
00:24:30
Speaker
You are still responsible for yourself.
00:24:34
Speaker
Yeah. And at one of the things that we talk a lot about is we are not the victims. There's the victim blaming and putting ourselves in a position. It's up to us to take accountability and to move forward. And even if we're in a tough spot, right? You don't have a friend to turn to you're feeling depressed. you feel like all is lost.
00:24:55
Speaker
Well, it's up to us again, as men in that scenario to realize that and to find ways that we can reignite or to ask for help. And so simply having this group, where you know we have a sub stack, we release articles and newsletters, and then we have the meetings and various ways that you can join it or participate.
00:25:13
Speaker
But should you need help, we're here for you. And we've been through it. We've had one person who lost their business and went bankrupt and had $100,000 worth of equipment that ultimately they lost. Had another person that was in a legal dispute for certain things and didn't know where to turn, didn't have money and we had to support them in that. I was in the group and I lost my mom.
00:25:37
Speaker
we're all going to lose our parents one day or our loved one around us. Loss and grief are a challenging thing. And to be able to connect with someone or hear how we went through it, or simply allow you to share your story to get it off of your chest.
00:25:53
Speaker
It's a very powerful thing. Yes. Yeah. I got a sense of, uh, of that very much. Yeah. And, uh, you know, Steve, thank you very much for sharing today. It's, it's been very interesting and, uh, inspiring as well. Thank you.
00:26:08
Speaker
Yeah, I really appreciate it. And I'll, I'll, I'll leave you with this as men, we have tools, you know, we have tools to fix our car. We have tools to fix the plumbing unit. We have tools to help us, you know, with communicating, but this is a tool for our health, our wellness,
00:26:28
Speaker
in our mindset. And so if you don't have somebody to speak to, or a best friend where you can actually share, we'd love to welcome you at Jen's journey. It's Jen's journey.co.
Sharing Quotes and Personal Stories
00:26:40
Speaker
And there's a quote that was in my mom's kitchen that I want everybody to hear because sometimes we may be going through life and feel aimless or what is it all for or just trying to figure it out.
00:26:51
Speaker
The quote that it escapes me, I should see who wrote it, but the quote that was in my mom's kitchen, it goes like this. To the world, you might be one person, but to one person, you might be the world.
00:27:05
Speaker
So be free, be open, share your story. And thank you for allowing me the opportunity to chat with you, Michael. It's been great. Thank you very much. Really do appreciate it.
00:27:17
Speaker
I am Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abbasida. And in this episode of Fit for My Age, I have been having a conversation with Stephen Seidel, the founder of Gents Journey.
00:27:30
Speaker
You can find out more information about both of us by using the links in the description. At Fit for My Age, our aim is proactive positive aging. Knowing the risks early is an important part of maintaining good health.
00:27:44
Speaker
That is why we recommend the health tests available from York Test, especially their annual health test. Performed annually by an experienced lobotomist, you will complete a full blood draw at your home or workplace.
00:27:59
Speaker
The annual health test provides an assessment of 39 different health markers, including cholesterol, diabetes, various vitamin levels, and organ functions. After hospital standards tests are carried out in a UKS accredited and CQC compliant laboratory, you will be able to access your easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime by your secure Personal Wellness Hub account.
00:28:27
Speaker
There is a link and a discount code in the description. I am sure you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of Fit For My Age as much as Stephen and I have enjoyed making it.
00:28:39
Speaker
Please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere. To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. And also please share the link with your friends, family and work colleagues as well.
00:28:55
Speaker
Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think. Until the next episode of Fit For My Age, thank you for listening, and goodbye.