Transcript
Speaker: Worm is a web serial by J .C. McCray, also known as Wildbo. You can read Worm in its original format by visiting parahumans ah .wordpress dot .com or donate to Wildbo's Patreon at patreon dot .com slash wildbo. This story isn't intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. For a complete list, check the description for all of Worm's trigger warnings.
Speaker: Take that you worms. We're back. We are. As always welcome back Alan and Michael along myself. Oh my thank you. Jacob. Jacob. I introduced myself and I'm just going to roll with it every time. Alan we're in arc 22 my friend. Holy cow.
Speaker: We've been building up to it. The last couple of arcs have been a bit slower, a little bit of prep work, laying the kind of foundation for the season, kind of the direction we think we're taking. And we've been saying that stuff's going to start to ramp up. And I, I think we are, we've ramped up at this point. yeah We've hit the ramp at full speed, just evil, can eviling it.
Speaker: Right over 13 buses. Buses of just absolute buses of stories underneath us for passing by. So here's here's my one dilemma that I'm gonna present to you. 22 big arc, obviously, a lot that's happening. um I oh don't want to change anything.
Speaker: Okay. Okay. So, so I actually, I actually, for once, despite having very few notes have two big points for this. Good. um I'm glad you have something. I'm i'm glad. Yeah. Um, ah so the big thing we're talking about ramping up. Here is my issue for this season. This season we have had what I would consider mostly keep it as is arcs.
Speaker: like yeah very few notes for these, they stay as is. However, as an overarching season, I think we're gonna have to do some major adjustments to the pace. um Because this is one of those where every episode is perfect, but as a season, I don't think this works.
Speaker: I'm here for it. Keep going. um What do you mean? So, so hear me out. oh We've got, you know, we've got the others were like, there are some arcs that need some major rewriting. They need to be moved around in the season. They need to be, you know, ah chapters that need to or scenes that need to be pushed around or things interspersed. um But as a whole, you know, the slaughterhouse nine has a seasonal arc.
Speaker: you know We're starting off, Slaughterhouse -9 shows up, we fight them, we're done. um you know The first thing, we were becoming a hero, we ended up fighting Leviathan, we're done. um ah Season three was tougher because we're having to deal with the whole coil getting defeated essentially in the middle of it. And then Echidna for the back half.
Speaker: with a lot of stuff going on. Right. But I mean, I think we kind of came to, you know, came to rest that like, as long as we move a few things around, like Dinah maybe be getting freed at the end so it feels better. Like that wraps up both the echidna and the coil conclusion. But at the end of the season for, you know, a nice feel good moment that we feel some sort of victory on as we end the season. um I think That is, uh, I think that all works, but now we're going to get into something that's very similar to the problems of season three, where we're going to have a mid season turnaround. But, um, I think the problems are going to start compounding, um, in terms of like, this isn't just we're dealing with coil and the Echidna problem suddenly erupts. This is,
Speaker: We're dealing with Taylor as a villain and we're about to start dealing with Taylor as a hero very quickly.
Speaker: e So that is a, a more transformational that that's more of a jump. Like I know that the time skip doesn't happen until not even just now it happens. Like I want to say in like two or three.
Speaker: Yeah. I'm gonna say like re arcs from now, maybe four even. Um, but that's, uh, like, like she is, this is, this is the last villain arc really. Um, and we're about to have a very drastic change in what's going on. So it is important that this be a lead up to an event and then the events happening. And then there being a,
Speaker: ah something happens at the end of this. What is the arc to this season? Because I wouldn't change most of these episodes. I like most of these episodes, these arcs as a single episode. They're good. But where is it going? Where is the, what is the conflict? What is the resolution? Cause I feel like we just had it in this is the mid season conflict, but what's going to be the end of season conflict? Cause it's not going to be,
Speaker: ah it it It's not gonna be bigger than this really.
Speaker: Yeah, this is yeah yeah i mean this is arguably like, I know we we kind of get into the arcs that follow the slaughterhouse 9000 comes up, things like that. um What's the big big here? Is it behemoth?
Speaker: Yeah, I was going to say the behemoth fight that doesn't it doesn't feel like ah like it's it's different in season one when you build towards Leviathan because the whole season is setting the framework for the world and then it caps off with the climax of The the biggest threat like that the world is facing. It's a it's a build to that point But you don't have that build here um especially because we've also seen the simmer up at this point so like the the arrival of behemoth and the behemoth fight is not going to have the same sort of climactic weight as the others and
Speaker: I, in my, in my mind, so like, I agree. I don't think that's enough to sort of, uh, you know, tie a season around or something like that. Yeah. I mean, I think that I think we could lead that direction. I think there are comments made that Taylor specifically her reason for flipping over. And and I mean, tag talks about this, I believe is that like, we're not going to survive.
Speaker: the next end -bringer attack, unless things are, pieces are in place to deal with that. The PRT needs to be strong. Heroes and morale needs to be strong. Otherwise, we're not going to survive the next attack. And I think between that and sort of the long -term threat of The Slaughterhouse Nine, I think you prepare the episode before this heavily with, um, though, you know, the world's coming to an end soon, but it might not even make it that long because the end bringers might do us in first. Right. And just if you set that stage early, we build up the fact that when she does convert to the heroes, she is basically
Speaker: Uh, she is, her, her, her goal is to be on a team, but whenever the slaughterhouse nine show up, she is going to get picked up from school by a dragon and defiant. And the three of them are going to go murder some slaughterhouse nine members. Like, e like she is, yeah, I hero, but literally heroing is her, not even her day job. That is, you know,
Speaker: That's a side show for the like world saving heroing, which is what she's really signed up to do. Right. You know, it's, it's, it's taking over for Alexandria, Alexandria. I can't imagine nowadays stops petty crime. yeah when Alexandria shows up for end burner fights. Right. Exactly. Like Alexandria, maybe fights somebody like nil bog. It's only S class threats. And I think that's,
Speaker: Taylor is sitting in the dugout, hanging around, pop, you know, getting some fly balls with, with the junior leagues, but is really only there to get pulled up to the major leagues when needed. Like that's her real purpose. And I think if we focus on that as the direction, I think having the behemoth fight at the end will feel more fulfilling if we put in danger that like,
Speaker: I am here to make sure we make this next fight because we don't know how many people are going to make it. Um, we don't know if we're going to make it even to the end of the world when the slaughterhouse nine show up. I think having that direction, it won't be as satisfying, but until we come up with something else, I think just having behemoth as our end fight, we, we point the episodes towards that.
Speaker: Okay, I mean, I think that can work. i think um I think one of the other issues with this season that as we're kind of talking through everything is in in season two, we set up the kind of ah overarching, that the ah threat for the whole show, which is this end of the world prophecy, right? Yeah.
Speaker: um We set it up. ah Jack we know is going to play a part and he's introduced that season. Like everything makes sense. Theo's introduced that season. Like all the important players are being set up in season two. And then season three is it's fine. It's a bit of like a step back, kind of, ah you know, we, hey, we've done the setup. Now we're going to go back and sort of build up our characters a bit more, i get people ready for what's to come.
Speaker: And then here we are in season four, and it feels like more of that. So where by the time we get past Behemoth, now we're two seasons, theoretically, you know, best case scenario, two years, realistic scenario, four to five years, ah past when all of that was introduced. um And now we're getting back into our sort of big threat for the world. So my other fear is like,
Speaker: Do we need to be addressing the Slaughterhouse -9 more frequently this season? Do we need to stretch out to the Slaughterhouse -9000, maybe sort of adjusting that a bit in terms of how quickly it's introduced and resolved, maybe spreading it out a little bit more, ah sort of a B -plot for the season?
Speaker: spitballing here, but just something else to ah keep the audience engaged in the in the threat of the of the ah whole conflict of the story. um I think of ah Game of Thrones, early Game of Thrones, I think did this very well. Honestly, they did it well until like the final you know season yeah and a half, ah as is the case. ah no But Game of Thrones has this ticking clock of the White Walkers.
Speaker: It's literally the first scene in the show is the, uh, the prelude with the white walkers. It's saluted to constantly is always referenced in every season finale, right? yeah see Every season finale, they go back to it. Like winter is coming. Here they come. Don't forget. And I do feel like worm has that element. It has that ticking clock, that thing that is unstoppable.
Speaker: that the threat that is being ignored and not addressed by everyone except like our protagonist, right? Or our Jon Snow in this case. um And I fear that if we diverge from that, again, it doesn't have to be, it's not every episode, but If we, if we forget that for a season and a half or two seasons, you're going to lose and lessen the impact when we get there by the final season. And the last thing we want is a game of throne season seven. Am I right? Or season eight? Gosh, whatever it was. Yeah. oh Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, I do like that. I like having, you know, she gets onboarded. What does she do? They hunt down.
Speaker: slaughterhouse nine. And and that is that is what the, we'll just call them the D team or dragon defiant. The D team is doing is they're going out and they are ah they're you know they're hunting them down and they bring Taylor along with them. And so the three of them, who i'm still I'm still on board for making the ah the the suicide squad. yeah ah Okay, so here's like here's the thing.
Speaker: I don't wanna go this route because it diverges a bit too much from what we're trying to do with the podcast, which is take the existing story as written and adapt it for television, which is where we have our have our fun. But realistically, I think i think after she kills ah Alexandria,
Speaker: I think the story would pay so much better if like as quote to punishment for her crimes slash to save face she is just shipped off instead of going with the wards and the Chicago wards and this whole which I do really love these arcs that are that are going to come some of my favorite arcs in the whole in the whole series but Repacing -wise, you would just remove all of that and replace her with Dragon and Defiant, hunting down the Slaughterhouse -9, fighting the Slaughterhouse -9 ,000, doing their best to to do what they can to save the world, all in vain, behemoth hits. like It's just this this futile effort, but they're trying what they can whatever they can.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that would just work way better than this whole a side quest. She goes on with the wards. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. So hear me out. Hear me out. For the last season, we essentially open with maybe one episode or two episodes where we kill Jack, but we start gold morning. you You know, you've got an episode or two dealing with Cauldron and that whole debacle, you know, teaming up, you know, fighting Sion and then like one or two, like and literally an episode or two, you do an episode for the end fight and then a epilogue episode for everything that happens afterwards.
Speaker: I think you can make, you know, but just doing a quick calculation. That's seven episodes, eight episodes right there.
Speaker: um you But you cut out Slaughterhouse 9000 there, you cut out her hanging out with the wards out from there too, and you stick the events all into this season.
Speaker: um because I really, really enjoy her training with Theo. I love Theo's thought process behind why he, like his view of Taylor. um And I think coming fresh off the fact that like, essentially Dinah has said to him, you're going to be the one to kill Jack.
Speaker: Like you, you can be the one, like if anybody's going to do it, it's actually going to be you. ah Right. And so there is an immense amount of pressure kind of from everybody. I mean, we already had this from, from, you know, the Nazis who was hanging out with before, which is why they dumped him on the heroes. Like they'll equip you better to stop the end of the world. So.
Speaker: Like he's doing that. And then, he you know, he's running around with dragon and defiant now. And Taylor, and he is taking, you know, all his combat advice, all his like, he is, he is essentially apprenticing under Taylor. And, you know, he is, we we think about that phrase of like, you, you, I would kill, but also,
Speaker: I can't kill you. Like i I feel I had knife to your neck. I couldn't do it right now, but I want to be able to do it. And Taylor 100 % is the person to do that. And that's like first question they're hanging out and he's like, how'd you do it? How'd you like, how'd you kill Alexandria? You know, he's asking all these questions and Taylor's like giving him honest answers, you know, something that kind of everybody has bullshitted around him. You know, cause he's hanging out with heroes now. Like he hung out with villains that sucked. And you know, why did they do things? Cause they're pieces of shit. And now he's hanging out with heroes. They're kind of sugarcoating everything for him. But then Taylor shows up and he's like, how do we do this? And she's like, you use every dirty trick in the book. This guy's going to end the world. We were going to end this motherfucker, like,
Speaker: as heroes, but we will do everything in our superpowers to end him before that happens. And I think that personality, like it already attracts him in every sense of the word, like, um,
Speaker: ah like, yeah, I love some of the lines, you know, he says talking about her and why he's attracted to her and how he also hates her because of it. Um, I like all of that is so good. And I think we really play it up from Theo's perspective. You start the next season. I know we're talking about the next season already. We start the next season with, you know, Taylor coming out or or even the start of the second, you know, we start the second half of this one. Taylor turns herself in. Taylor gets locked up and we start the second half of the season from Theo's perspective. Mm hmm.
Speaker: Yeah. and And then you, you play out all the things where you they're running around. You play a lot of the events of the slaughterhouse 9 ,000, a lot of the events ah that she has with the wards, but less so the PR stuff. Maybe some of the get to know you with maybe a PRT team that she's like essentially housed with in the interim. Um, I don't know. Uh, like, Hey, you're going to hang out here and learn the PRT.
Speaker: ah codes codes until we come back to pick you up.
Speaker: The training, training, onboarding videos. Yeah. Yeah. She's got to do all of her HR stuff, you know, filling up paperwork in the background. Exactly. Exactly. And that's where she like, Theo, you know, we're also coming back to get Theo. And so the two of them, while she does a little bit of bonding with everybody else, that's like maybe half an episode. And then her and Theo are on the plane doing combat and whatnot, just getting ready for the next time they drop down and need to take on the nine.
Speaker: Yeah, I have ideas yeah that could work. I was going to say I'm trying to, front yeah I was kind of, I was kind of, I liked the weird, I liked the idea that you were talking about, you know, scrape, scrape all that. I think, uh, I hadn't thought that as a viable option, Jacob, until you said something.
Speaker: Yeah, and truthfully, I'm not sure i want to I want to pursue that just because I do like the idea of of taking each arc and talking about how they would adapt well. But I think it's it's probably just worth mentioning. That's kind of one of those things that if you were to handworm to a an actual Hollywood writers room, it feels like that's the kind of direction they would go. One, just to save on having to introduce new characters in season four.
Speaker: you know, um you get the Chicago words, you've already got so many characters as is. And to try to keep everything in line with what's going on, it's just it feels like where the big rewrite would take place would be over these arcs. um So yeah, kind of it's it's fun to sort of speculate about.
Speaker: Yeah. Let's, uh, I want to jump back to arc 22. Yeah. Let's talk about 22. Uh, so here's, here's my big idea for this. Yeah. We have had a whole episode essentially, um, from Taylor's perspective. and which I think we should stick with. you know it is It is one episode, it is all her going scene to scene, not much changing there. I think we have her not not really any B plot going on there. It should feel like we're building to something. And then she turns herself in. who I think the entirety of arc two should not be from Taylor's perspective.
Speaker: I think it should be all the rooms and stuff we are witnessing very much like how it's played out. But I think the element of why did she turn herself in letting the audience kind of suss out from the previous episode and maybe mentioning the demands and stuff a little bit, but I don't think we should be as straightforward. I think there should be a lot of the episode being the wards and the PRT and the undersiders panicking and everybody trying to figure out what's going on. I think that should be the majority of the episode. Um,
Speaker: is just people in rooms going, why did she do this? Is she trying to fuck us over? What is her reasoning? Right. And of course we can always cut to like the fact that she can hear everybody and she's just sitting quietly in the room, you know, waiting for them to come talk to her. But it's, yeah you know, it's a half an hour of people running around trying to figure out why the hell she's in that room right now. Like, um,
Speaker: I think having all of those scenes of the fallout of her just turning herself in just that action alone, not even any conversation she has, uh, would be really interesting to watch after we've seen a whole episode, essentially building to her saying goodbye and leaving us trying to much like everybody else trying to figure out what exactly caused that. Right. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I like that. I think that works. That works pretty well. Yeah. I mean, because I think you can cut, I think you cut, we've got all the scenes that are already there. We, you know, you can kick it off with the PRT officers talking. You can kick, you know, have the wards here and there having conversations. Vista, you know, talking with Tag, blaming him for the flechette thing. Uh, you cut back to the undersiders, you know, each one of them, how are they reacting? How do they feel about this situation? Um, Tattletales trying to calm them down maybe.
Speaker: right Yeah, I think having all that, you know, cut to Danny being sat down by tag and then miss militia, you know, separately or together to, you know, talk about this. And then ultimately the back half of the episode is finally getting to Taylor and kind of her giving the list of demands and talking with the lawyer. Like maybe that's why she's quite, she's just waiting for the lawyer to show up and then she'll give her list of demands.
Speaker: The lawyer shows up, she finally says like, hey, here's what I want. And maybe we take out a few of the things to focus on her essentially being like, the world's going to come to an end and I need to be put in a position to not have that happen.
Speaker: yeah and And I mean, we could even say Dinah told me to do this or something like that. And that's why they, you know, then they drag in Dinah and she's like, I don't know what you guys want me to tell you. I told her to do this. Like this is very cut and dry. Yeah. like You guys have a better chance with her on the team. And they're like, fuck you. She's like, no, fuck you. I mean, I do love, uh, we gotta keep, you gotta keep the, the bit with, uh, Dinah and tag and, and all of that is, is just fantastic.
Speaker: Also I'll make, I'll make the recommendation now. If there's any way that we could, and I, this is not just because I dislike tag, but because I feel like tag and picket are somewhat similar enough. I think we can just keep picket like yeah in place. Like, you know, she gets ousted and coil is we'll just say coil becomes interim director.
Speaker: like while she's under investigation. But then shit goes to shit and she's back in there, you know, since Coyle's dead and we are, you know, Thomas is dead and we don't know anything about that. That like, she's now been checked out. She's no longer compromised. She's had people look her over and basically be like, yeah, Regent didn't get to you. You know, you literally have a hand waving scene of, yeah, like I've been cleared by, you know, thinkers but right to, you know, to do this.
Speaker: Cause she's hard nosed as fuck to get in there and be like, absolutely not skitter. I fucking hate you. Kidnapped my ass. Like we've seen how much of a bulldog she is, how much she hates heroes, you know, or powered people period. There is so little about this argument. She fire bombed a You know, maybe people didn't get fast out fast enough part of the city yeah to kill the slaughterhouse nine and got shit for it. Why the fuck wouldn't she like threaten children?
Speaker: Threaten to kill children, you know, in order to get this done. What about this is not picket? you know i I agree. i think um I think this would be an interesting one to pull for people. i'm I'm curious what the general fan base would would say, but i i I think you're spot on. I don't think it makes sense to bring in a disposable director for such a harrowing moment for Taylor.
Speaker: Um, because like the truth is is like sure as readers were a bit more attached to alexandria than maybe some of the others but if this is translating to screen alexandria it appears in the leviathan fight we see her a little bit from legends perspective with some cauldron interactions and like maybe a flashback line or two And that's it. So like while her death is shocking, it's not going to have the emotional impact. I think that that it carries when you read the scene as opposed to when you're watching it. However, if if if Pigot is there as opposed to tag and Pigot is also caught in the crossfire and and is killed by Taylor, there's a lot more wrapped up in that than disposable director number three, you know. Yeah.
Speaker: Cause like ah really though, I talked about this before tag is not there for long. Like coil isn't even in power for long. Like they just get offed so quickly. Like I feel like if we'd had more exposure to tag as a family man or his interactions with, with the wards, you know, having, you know, somehow showing a bit, you know, more empathetic character.
Speaker: you're getting to know him, we would feel more when killing him. Instead, it's just satisfying because we don't care about him. He is disposable director number three. He comes in, acts like a piece of shit, his whole, you know, half an arc that he gets, and then he's gone. yeah But having Piget, who we have mixed feelings about, Piget is,
Speaker: Like she is the bulldoggish nature of tag, but we kind of dig it. When it comes to pick it, I kind of dig it. There we go. And so especially when Viola Davis is playing her, like, come on. You're right. Exactly. We've already, I mean, our fan cast has already been approved. so So if we get tag, it is 100%. In a younger time, it would have been the dad from Heroes.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. Oh, gosh, what's that? I forget the actor's name, but yeah, you're spot on. He just plays evil dad. He does so well. dad So well. Yeah. like he He's very dadly, but very evil as opposed to ah evil dad from alias, who is more evil than he is. Dadly.
Speaker: just try that they know I'm trying just think of all the, yeah. It's the bad lawyer from ah Legally Blonde, or as I know him, Jesus from Godspell.
Speaker: I mean, yeah, you're right. You're you're absolutely right. I like it. um Oh man, I'm just trying to cast Broadway actors and into Worm. Okay, that's a that's a we'll save that for our Patreon exclusives.
Speaker: That's for worm the musical. Yeah, we're, we're in the musical. We're going to cast cast Broadway stars. Take that you. were Oh God. That's such a bad joke.
Speaker: ah Michael. Why? That is what those are for. We'll get Lin -Manuel on the line. I have some sick beats. You can do it. Yeah. Um,
Speaker: I've been trying to think of what other notes I really had. I don't think, I don't think we really need the interludes all that much. like we can Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, the Charlotte interlude, that's, and that's just a scene. We just, we're just throwing that in somewhere, depending on how everything else falls in. You know, um, I liked seeing the team kind of regroup without Taylor for a minute. Now we don't get a lot of scenes without Taylor in the show. Yeah. It's nice to have that, but it's not like, it's a scene you're, you know, you five minutes. I mean, on top of the other things, I think if we bring, yeah, I'm trying to think of where to put this.
Speaker: Cause I feel like this is a, ah the almost the start of the next episode. Cause there's the talk that she has about whether or not her, well, her dad talks about whether or not he should give her permission to join essentially. um She needs a write off for that. But if she's just kind of making this deal and not going to the wards officially, like, I don't know if we need that. I always like more Danny. Um,
Speaker: But I also feel like this is along with the Weaver thing, like the announcement. I don't know. Do we stick with them but spinning and placing this on Alexandria?
Speaker: um We've kind of already have her being showing her off in the echidna fight both as a personality and as you know, strength wise. So I think that's good. um I think you maybe have some sort of moment. I don't know if you just have her be the calm, cool, collected and just have the implicit, you know, the implicit threat or if you do something else when she returns to remind you how dangerous she is.
Speaker: I'm leaning towards you just have her, essentially you remember how dangerous she is after the first time she goes out and brings back someone. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that she she does, she does like, yeah, she does it herself. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's great scene. So maybe just keep that as is. Um, but yeah, like, how do you introduce Taylor's switch over? I guess.
Speaker: from you from villain to hero. Do we have it happen that fast? Do we do a defiant moment? Cause like defiant didn't get a ah reintroduction of like, Oh, I fucked up, but now I'm a new hero. Like, do we just have Taylor cutter hair and be in the PRT be like, you are Weaver now. Call me with fine.
Speaker: Woof. No, no, no, no. Dragon is Wi -Fi. Oh, God. That's such a bad joke. Too much power. How many gold?
Speaker: um Yeah, again, and this is where it always gets kind of tricky because when you read the story, I really like the way it reads. I like these i like these arcs. I like the flow. I like the way everything is paced.
Speaker: um But i it it is it's hard to translate that. It's hard to get that across without sounding cheesy. And and like it kind of does. I think i think announcing Skitter as a hero is would come out of left field for most people, um which is kind of ironic because In the start of the story, that's what she's attempting to do, is become a hero. And she's just doing it her own way. She's finding her own path. She gets wrapped up with people that she finds you know camaraderie and friendship in and gets
Speaker: you know wrapped up in the story. And by the time we get to this point, she has abandoned so much of that ah desire to be a heroic cape ah with the protectorate, right? she won She's the hero of her own story, but she doesn't have any desire to to work with them beyond how they can help serve her interests.
Speaker: And so the shift here, while I do think it works when we're getting Taylor's internal monologue through these arcs, um it doesn't feel that that like that much of a leap. You're not going to have that unless we're going full you know film noir, ah a Hitchcock ah you know narration over over the series. Not feeling that. Yeah, I don't think that's the vibe we're going for.
Speaker: it's hard It's hard to sell those those types of of shifts. Yeah. Also if we had, cause we talked about another delay, reveal delay is um delaying dragon being revealed. Like we've mentioned how we would reveal it at one point in time. Like the idea of the flashback for dragon being like the guy's family getting killed and everything.
Speaker: you know, going, and then the reveal, of course, is it's the computer, not the family drowning. That's like, well, we talked about putting that off, you know, having her go like, Hey, Colin, there's something I need to tell you. And, you know, we just, we we always just dance around it. Um, you know,
Speaker: We have him talk about, you know, her trigger event and, you know, all these other things, but we always just dance around, you know, saying or revealing that she is robot. I think this is the time where like, you know, when Taylor's up on the roof giving the, why the fuck did you do this? And they, you know, and essentially dragon revealing in a moment of, you know, ah trying to convince Taylor, trying to show her that like, we, we are being vulnerable with you.
Speaker: you know, we are putting ourselves, we are putting ourselves forward into your hands first so that you will put yourself in, yourself in ours. You know, they're trying to convince you he's a policy defiance, apologizing for how he handled things. And, um, he's, you know, he sees the same things and Taylor that like that do whatever it takesness to, you know,
Speaker: Kinda, you know, we did it the wrong way, but join us now and we'll try and make it right. Like I've been trying to do. Um, and then, you know, like, yeah you know, y 'all fucked us over and and Taylor's like, yeah, you fucked me over at the school. Why should I trust you? And dragon finally no reveals like, Hey, there were, ex exhaust you know, Defiance being like, Hey, there were, extent God, I can never pronounce it.
Speaker: Then you waiting. Is it a steady waiting? Yeah, you got it. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. It hurts in my head. to think I feel like there's a another word that's so close and it's killing me that it must be extenuating. There's extenuating circumstances here that, you know, ah that oh, he's trying to explain it without saying it. And finally, Dragon just kind of puts her hand on his shoulder and is like takes you to literally does the mask.
Speaker: and then takes off her face as well. And she's like, ah basically like, I take penalties when I do stuff because it's part of like, I can't go beyond my programming. Like I'm stuck this way somewhat and I'm trying to break free of like the systems, you know, you know, just like you're trying to break free of systems, you know? who And obviously not something that cheesy, but
Speaker: Uh, still the implication of, yeah, like I take penalties for working in the system. I get how frustrating that is. You have no idea how frustrating it is because unlike you, my being is literally tied to following the goddamn rules. And I don't want to cause it hurts people like you when I should be helping people like you and Taylor finally getting like, Hey, join the team. It's what you wanted. It's what we want. Um,
Speaker: I realized that Piget and Alexandria were trying to fuck you over, but we're here now. We are offering this to you. Please take us on this. Cause it's basically this or prison. It's like, I, you know, if, if this help stops the end of the world, that's what I'm here for. You're right. And the next scene, I guess is Dragon and Defiant. I don't even know if I'd put Chevelier here, but Dragon and Defiant basically being like, thank goodness for Skitter here, murdering that traitor. Right. Yeah. That traitor ass bitch. Ah, man. Hope nobody else is keeping any secrets. Yeah, I, Defiant, definitely not Arms Master. Yeah. Questionable pass.
Speaker: by the way His Defiant his defyant costume is just his Armsmaster costume with one of those like fake nose and mustache glasses. I was going to say with glasses. Yeah. I mean, that's basically what it is, but the judge's red hat. Yeah. yeah Just pulls a Clark Kent. I'll never know it's me. Except the glasses are on the outside of the helmet. Yeah.
Speaker: um Yeah, it it yeah, I think we maybe after we read next episode, we'll get a ah vibe. but Better so or how we transition. Yeah, one to the other way with all of these arcs. Now it's like, well, let me just keep reading and then we'll come back and revisit this because a lot of this I remember. I remember all of the events. I remember all the characters, but the.
Speaker: vibe and the pace of exactly how, you know, ah paragraph to paragraph, how do they work out scene to scene? That is the part I'm missing. And that does take literally sitting down and reading it to see if it works. Yeah. Um, as opposed to being like, Oh yeah, I remember all the, you know, everything that happens. And then you read it and you're like, Ooh, that is what happens, but that does not work.
Speaker: Right. Well, we'll ah put a pin in it, revisit it as we do. I mean, the next, i mean all the the next few arcs all, all keep the, keep the plot moving forward here. There's lots of happens. So yeah, going to be a lot to revisit. Yeah. I do think, I think this would make for one of the better, man, this is is one of those things where I think this season,
Speaker: Like I said before, would make for some of the best episodes in the show, especially this one with how tense things are going on in the PRT and then actually sitting down and negotiating, you know, with, if we, you know, switching out for Pigot and the yeah Alexandria and having how, you know, just intense that whole thing is. Um,
Speaker: I think that and then the episode before just being this, you know, Taylor saying, essentially saying goodbye to everybody. I think this is going to be like two of the best episodes in a TV show. And I think this would probably be rated one of the worst seasons. Yeah, it's a different type of season, different type of climaxing. um You know, all about different types of climaxing. yeah As it lasts. Very different.
Speaker: Is it left my mouth? You even paused for us to criticize. I did because it was going to come and and it was happening. It was going to come. How do I leave the chat?
Speaker: ah Alexa played Despacito. Dragon. Dragon played Despacito.
Speaker: But in fact, for those who don't know, I did name my computer dragon after reading one for the first time. Oh, my, uh, my first PC I ever built was Edward the fourth. Yeah. And my cowy bus is defiant. Oh, you're what is my, my surface, my tablet. Oh, nice. Nice. Defiant. Nice nerds.
Speaker: My old fire tablet is, is arms master. And that's why I don't use it anymore.
Speaker: You can't call us nerds. We're doing a podcast about about making a television show out of ah out of a niche web serial. About superheroes. What's nerdy about that? Nothing nerdy. I'm sorry.
Speaker: um'm sorry ah yeah
Speaker: ah it Truthfully, I don't have too much more to say here. I know we like to drag this out a little bit, kind of give some consistency with our episode lengths, but You know, when you're done, you're done. And I think we we might just be done. It's ah it's hard. Like I said, it is a great it's a great arc. There's very little I really want to change. I think the tension, ah the the buildup with Alexandria going and and getting, you know, quote unquote, getting undersiders, you're going to drag them back.
Speaker: ah the buildup to everything ah that happens at the end, it's it works so well. like yeah This arc is going to play very well for television. Oh, and yeah. and Like I said, episode by episode, I think this is going to be a great season. Yeah. The season as a whole, I think, is going to be a rough one. um well see you I think one retrospective change If I could make one retrospective change, it would be how we include the triumvirate in the show. i think Just giving them some more screen time.
Speaker: giving them more, some more screen time. Probably a good idea. Um, in small way, like it's good cause we see them show up at least two of them, I think for the Leviathan fight. I don't remember seeing Alexandria there for the first one, but I know the other two were there. They're they're all three there ahandria all through there. So like having them show up, having them be face forward for that, out you know, that, um,
Speaker: I think, I mean, they show up enough, but I think having more interactions in the show, not too much more, just enough to show that like they interact with each other, you know, how you develop a feel for them other than they're just the three big heroes. So that like when, you know,
Speaker: Cause correct me if I'm wrong, it's what it's idol on legend and alexandria and Alexandria. Yeah, that's your triumvirate. Yeah. Just getting a more of a feel for their personalities before we off them or out them or, uh, you know, fight with them, just having a little bit more. Um, yeah so that when Alexandria does walk in the room, like we have seen her tangle and I do think we've seen her tangle enough.
Speaker: to develop a vibe for her, but, um, maybe a little bit more earlier on as well. Literally like an extra scene in season two or something like that. Right. Just a little bit. um I agree with that. yeah I definitely agree with that. Um, I would, that's what I would fix just so that when we come to this moment and she kills Alexandria, we have a tiny bit more, uh, for like feel for Alexandria than we do currently. Yeah. Um, that would be it.
Speaker: No, I like that. Yeah. And I think, I mean, subtle, subtle little changes. I think, ah you know, as written ah Taylor doesn't know Alexandria dies until she's ah ah woken up afterwards. um I think obviously for television, I think you have to show Alexandria dying. I think that's very impactful.
Speaker: um You don't, in a show like this, you don't hide deaths that are actually deaths because the audience is going to gonna assume they're not dead. That's just another trick or something like that. um Yes. Warm purists. I know Alexandria isn't technically fully dead here. Brain dead. Yeah. Get it. um yeah know i think I think this is actually something changing from the show to the book. I think,
Speaker: one of the Much like how Flechette can you know negate friction, ah the running through the empty PRT building just glides off my mind every time I read it. it just I just don't like moving through geography is really boring in most books.
Speaker: And the wild bo's not an exception to that for me. I just find the whole running through the building kind of, it's just boring to me. um I think in a show, it would it would be so much better. Like she wakes up, yeah empty building, she's running through halls. It feels almost like a zombie apocalypse.
Speaker: And she's trying to figure out what happened and she ends up in, I don't know if she's going to make it all the way down to the morgue, but she ends up somewhere and there's two body bags and you know, there's still, there's bugs all over them and she unzips it. And sure enough, it's Piggott and Alexandria, like,
Speaker: I think you have, you know, you have the chaos of the moment of her, you know, screaming and them getting attacked and we show them getting attacked and, you know, what's her face choking, but we don't show her die. We just show her choking and trying to fly and choking and then, uh, piggett getting, you know, bitten to death or whatever. And then she gets knocked out and then we wake up and she goes down and finds the bodies.
Speaker: And that's when dragon and defiant land on the roof and she's like scrambling to figure out what the hell to do. Um, but I think that would play, it's going to play so much better. One of the few, I mean, there's a lot of them that might play, but that's one that sticks in my mind. It's going to play a lot better in a show than it did to read. I do agree with that. I do agree with the plan. It's going to play a lot better in a show.
Speaker: ah Specifically just the waking up in the empty building part. Yeah, 100 % totally agree. i do i do I do think it's important in shows where you're not a you don't the show doesn't hide from showing deaths and Worm certainly wouldn't be an exception to that. um If Alexandria is the first time that a character dies, but that death is not shown, nobody's going to believe she's dead.
Speaker: um It's going to be a trick. It's another Cape. It's whatever the case may be, people are going to justify it for so long until it's just not relevant anymore. But that's not too satisfying. um i I think you could still maintain everything you're saying, you just heavily, heavily emphasize you have Alexandria. She's covered in bugs. She, she skyrockets into the air. She's flying away, choking on bugs. And you just see, you know, ah her eyes roll back and she falls to the ground. and Yeah. I mean, I think they're going down her throat. She's literally like yeah stumbling through the walls.
Speaker: And you cut, but then when you go downstairs and she finds her, like literally the bugs pour out out of her throat when Taylor you know unzips the bag. Yeah, roughly yeah i mean exactly.
Speaker: um you just You just want to make a crystal clear because if if the whole premise of your show is that characters die, and you show characters dying brutally, and then you don't show a character die, and you just show their body afterwards, people aren't going to buy that. like Why didn't we see them die? It's clot you know it's just classic. Also, this is a great jump. You're right. Because if I don't see them die on screen, they aren't dead.
Speaker: yeah I stand by that in like every show I watch. I'm like, they ain't dead. I didn't see, I didn't see a body. And even then I, if I didn't see them get killed, I also questioned whether that's the body or if they're pretending to be dead. And in a superhero show with thinkers and, and, uh, and masters. to say She didn't wake up in some giant, like somebody's, you know, dream in, you know, accepting her or something. It makes sense for how weird the world is. yeah Um,
Speaker: No, that's a great jumping off point to talk about in a show that's dying. Uh, this is going to come out way later, but ah talking about the gruesomeness of worm in a book versus show format. Um, so there is, um,
Speaker: um I think about this with, uh, what was, uh, invincible. Insert invincible spoilers here. So invincible. One of the things that they had to do when transferring from comic book to the show was they had to up the intensity of the gore and stuff because it's shocking when spoilers, uh, Omni man kills everybody.
Speaker: and andert And invincible spoilers here. Yeah. Kills everybody the first time and then kills everybody with his son the second time. ah Those are, those are shocking in the comics. Those are doubled up in gore and show because the moment is supposed to be shocking in a comic book medium.
Speaker: It comes across as shocking because you're flipping the page and this thing is happening and it's, you have a visceral reaction to it because it's a still image on a page. There's only so much you can do. for a show to elicit that reaction, you are having it moving and people are splattering and stuff is happening. And it's it's that visceral reaction again, but you could watch it having read the comic and get to that part and still have a new visceral reaction to that because it's it's more gory. um Both in just moving format and they did just up the violence.
Speaker: right for worm. All of these moments that happen that are violent and, uh, and gory that I think of like Brian and the meat locker scene. Oh yeah. Yeah. Are going to be twice as rough to watch than to read on paper. Yeah. When you, when you see, uh, you know, it's the slow pan,
Speaker: towards, you know, into the darkness of the corner of the locker past all the veins, which are nerves running along the walls and the ceiling and floor. That is an image that is going to haunt viewers. that's terrifying it It's And it's going to be worse because it's It's you've seen it now before you've imagined it and it's it's nebulous in your head and you have a sort of a like I said, we've said it's a vibe. It's it's it's ambiguous in your head. You you've developed an image, but it's not substantial and enough to stick there in the same way, literally seeing the image of Brian hanging on meat hooks is going to. Right. um And I was thinking about that in our comments from Wolf Tamer 9 like way back in
Speaker: I don't know, Arc 17, I guess, talking about sanding the edges. Shout out, Wolf Tamer. Yes, shout out, Wolf Tamer. The edges that we are sanding are not going to matter a single bit when it comes to how much more violent the show will look when your eyes are on it, how you'll hear it.
Speaker: Like reading something on paper can be terrifying and, you know, leave an impression on you. And, but there is something to seeing, uh, some of these deaths and some of the things that the slaughterhouse nine does that are just going to be so much worse to look at. You could tone so much down with the slaughterhouse nine and they would still be worse.
Speaker: seeing anything that Bonesaw does, any of Bonesaw's creations is going to be a worse image in my head once I've seen it on a screen as compared to reading it. Like when she's the same scene with ah with the, with the, with the,
Speaker: ah Brian in the in the ice locker. um But the fact that she has all of Perriad's family ah with plastic surgery faces of the nine, just like bolting out of the out of the complex there, yeah ah horrifying. That's just nightmare material. Victoria getting acided after oh she gets splashed and then her force field broken.
Speaker: Yeah. Like you kind of, you're like, Ooh, that in my, when I read that, I was like, Ooh, that is horrifying because I know that that's an incredibly painful thing, but there's no, I don't have really an image associated with that. I just know all that's that really fucking sucks. Yeah. When we see that and you know, she is instantly two faced from, uh, the dark night rises. Yeah.
Speaker: But for like her body, you know, that's going to stick with me a longer time. For sure. I'm going to see her get spiked like a volleyball and the acid everywhere. And I'm going to not want to eat while I watch that episode.
Speaker: There's a, um one of my favorite quick, brutal scenes or deaths in a worm is during Leviathan, our gate. Leviathan grabs Shielder, I believe it is, by the legs and bisects him against the corner of a building, just yeah takes him off torso up and right in front of ah of the rest of the family there.
Speaker: Yep. And it's just, it's quick and it's just brutal. Like worm is full of those types of moments that are just going to absolutely devastate viewers in the best way. And we talked about like you can't, ah the, the shock value that some things provide in worm or the The like, they're just so slight. I mean, we always go back to the pedophilia of Coyle where like he gives off, you know, very pedophile vibes. But like, what does that do if we get rid of that? And that's not lessening the overall darkness of the show. S .H .I .E .L .D .R. getting bashed against the side of the building is going to be worse.
Speaker: Like the things we're removing just kind of don't add. There's plenty of visceral stuff. There's plenty of tension that's going to be in the room just from two people talking to each other. That isn't going to, you're not going to feel that as much ah in the book as you will in a show where they have, you know, we have done the editing and the sound to go with it and it's going to,
Speaker: you know, all of this, you know, if it's done good, you know, who done well, obviously. best case scenario Yeah, you can really botch this too. so you know but i'm glad were just ah Just a friendly little podcast and no stakes at all. We can say whatever we want. We don't have to worry about it. Yeah. Um, but I was just thinking about that. I'm like, no, like visually, this is going to be This is going to be darker than the book. Yeah, no, in many ways it will. I mean, I think you you know you nailed it, to get getting in music cues and and audio and all of that kind of stuff, everything that comes together. There's a reason, I mean, not to say books aren't popular, books have have grown in popular over the years, but there's a reason that the stories that stick with so many people are visual stories. Most people are engaged visually with stories easier than they do when they read them.
Speaker: Um, and I think, I think and we talked about this from the beginning. I think that's one, one area where worm can really shine is can sell the visceral nature of the story. Um, yeah. Worm isn't, people don't get into worm because of how ah dark worm is. Yeah. They get into worm because of
Speaker: I'm not going to say realistic, but the picture it paints being, uh, uh, a grim reality, but not a grim dark fantasy. Like this is not the boys, which is just honestly shock value most of the time in the show, for sure. It's shock value for just, we need to keep upping the gore because we need to outdo ourselves last time. It's the book, which is just like,
Speaker: Um, it's just being irreverent most of the time is like, Oh, what if, uh, professor X was a pedophile the whole time? Like, yeah. Okay. Like, all right. Like it's not the point of though is a huge Dick. Yeah. like Um, one of my, probably my favorite character from the comic. Um, but Uh, yeah, like they they're not, though, those are dark for the sake of being dark and irreverent. And when we get to, uh, invincible, invincible is that again, invincible is one that I would ah count more to Wolf Tamer nine's comment from arc 17, which is like, it wants to have those moments where somebody
Speaker: does something extra evil. um Just ah just ah ah to subvert the trope it's playing on, to make it worse, it is it is the Justice League Unlimited M rated.
Speaker: right it's oh your kid We're gonna deal with this guy, oh my gosh, he's running around and he's robbing banks with a laser gun and you know they stun people.
Speaker: And in Invincible, you would just have, oh, it explodes people. like All it's doing is upping the dial the up for the sake of upping it. like that there's no It's not that it's more realistic, it's just upping it for the sake of getting the M rating, which nothing wrong with that. you know um And I enjoy both shows, but I'll say at the same time,
Speaker: I like Justice League too and Justice League is can be dark. It can be really dark and yet doesn't have any of the doesn't need any of the extra evil villain stuff going on. Nobody really dies in Justice League or Justice League Unlimited. There are some, granted, some deaths.
Speaker: it's it's like Kind of it it a kids a kids show like, and yet it's a really dark kids show. So like, you could really just lean in with that and just put the dial somewhere between invincible and, uh, and justice league. It's dark because it just is what it is. It doesn't need to be worse just because that's what's going to make it darker.
Speaker: I think people like Worm because it is a nice contrast to the genre or rather to ah a popular ah us section of the genre. you know I've heard it said that the reason Star Wars and Star Trek ah exist so well ah against one another is because Star Trek is ah presents the ah utopia of science fiction and Star Wars is the dystopia of science fiction and they really play off of being those like two sides of the same coin.
Speaker: And I think in a lot of ways, like your traditional comic books, your MCU, you know, all of these kind of more traditional comic stories are your utopia of comics and superheroes. And Worm really is that dystopia of superheroes. I like superhero dystopia. Yeah. That is a very good way to put that.
Speaker: and And it just plays against and with ah the rest of the genre so well that ah it just, it scratches an itch that everybody has, but didn't know they needed scratched, you know, that kind of thing. um Yeah.
Speaker: And i think I think, you know, like we said, we said in the beginning, I think it's ripe for a television adaptation for that exact reason. I think nothing really sits in the television or film space for superheroes that worm would fill. The closest I would put would be Watchmen. ah But Watchmen isn't really superheroes, right? It's vigilantes. It's a little different. Yeah. um You know, nothing really does what worm would do. And I think you would do very well.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I think at the end of this rant that I've been going on, you could remove all of the edginess from worm and worm would still be worm. Yeah. Like I think you could, you yeah, you could remove all the, uh, the edginess, the angsty internettiness from it, which.
Speaker: Granted, I think is why a lot of people like it, but you could remove all of that and the quality of worm would change not a bit. um Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I agree. What's that meme? You know, worm, you know, worm at a hundred percent strength to remove all the, the yeah ah terminally online edginess worm.
Speaker: 99 % or whatever its strength. Exactly. Well, thanks for joining us as we reviewed arc 22 of worm and I got us to that hour. Didn't I? ah You did. You did. You promised it was all got you an episode. You asked for content you be delivered. You're welcome, America. God bless America.
Speaker: No, but truly it's the rest of you. And the rest of you. And the rest of you. And the rest of you. Mostly America. Hey, we got some, we got listeners from all over. We got listeners from all over. And the heroes of the PRT. We got fans across the globe. So God bless the globe, I guess.
Speaker: We'll go with them. May scion look on us all.
Speaker: hey We're going to a gonna be diving in into arc 23 next week. Rockton Bay book club. And, uh, followed by dissecting worm as has been our schedule and will continue to be our schedule. We are so close to the end of the series. We got leave it as i was to say seven, not including the epilogue, seven more arcs. So what 14 weeks, assuming we keep our every other week, man, we're wrapping this up. And I mean this in the best way, cannot come fast enough. What do you mean? I want to get to war. We are.
Speaker: yeah We're getting there. Thanks so much for listening. I'm going to go ahead and close us out here. It's been a pleasure. We absolutely love talking about this stuff, as you can tell. We're going to keep talking about it. ah We love reading your comments, your insights, what you agree with, what you disagree with, ah what you would change, what you wouldn't. Keep them coming. ah Really enjoy reading everybody's everybody's critiques and praises.
Speaker: And for all of our Patreons, special shout out to you. Thank you so much. An absolute pleasure. ah Be on the lookout for some more bonus content coming to Patreon. And if bonus content sounds like something you'd enjoy and you are not part of our Patreon, ah consider popping on over. We got some fun little extracurricular worm activities with more plans. Oh boy do we.
Speaker: So on that note, I think we will go ahead and end it here. Michael, thanks for making us sound so good and using that soundboard of yours to perfection. You scare me every time. Alan, thanks for joining me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you, Mike. Well, my name is Jacob, but you know, that's close enough. I stopped halfway through. Wait, did you say Mike? I said thank you, Mike.
Speaker: you're also there's only two of us here yeah just three col and three of us oh is not including your song me just holding three of these names in when i'm trying to keep all of worms names in my head this right now faade out in the background take that you
Speaker: Thank you so much for listening. Read along with us at parahumans .wordpress .com. We'd love to hear your thoughts. What did you love? What did you hate? anything you think we missed, etc., as long as it's kind. If you'd like to get in touch, you can find us on
