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Best of Season 3: Our Dungeons and Dragons Journey (10k Special)
248 Plays1 year ago
Join us on the run up to Season 4 as we count down some of our favourite episodes from Season 3!
Hello everybody and welcome to the best of Season 3. In this episode I am joined by the one and only Craigy C to celebrate 10k plays by discussing the topic that launched the podcast to begin with: Dungeons and Dragons. It’s hard to believe that after nearly three years and three seasons, the podcast is still going strong. Without any further ado, hope you enjoy.
To celebrate 10k plays of the Chatsunami podcast, join Satsunami and his friend Craigy C as they discuss the topic that started it all. From bards to bombastic action, join us as we take on the wonderful world of Dungeons and Dragons!
Thank you all once again for the amazing support it means the world to us here!
Patrons:
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- Sonia
Use my special link zen.ai/chatsunami and use chatsunami to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr
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Transcript
Celebrating 10,000 Plays and Podcast Origins
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the best of Season 3. In this episode, I'm joined by the one and only Craigie C to celebrate 10,000 plays by discussing the topic that launched the podcast to begin with, Dungeons & Dragons. It's hard to believe that after nearly 3 years and 3 seasons, the podcast is still going strong. Without any further ado, hope you enjoy. Welcome to Chad Tsunami.
00:00:38
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. My name's Satsunami and joining me for a very special 10K episode is none other than the one and only person who started it all with me, it is Craigie C. Hello there. How are you doing tonight? I'm not bad, I'm not bad. In case anyone's wondering, usually we've coded these episodes together in person but last time I was over Sats just said that I wasn't allowed to keep taking my shirt off so I stayed at home this time.
00:01:08
Speaker
So instead I'm doing it in solidarity. Yes. And neither was I wearing a shirt for this podcast. Yeah. Just them muscles. If Chatsanami doesn't pan out, you know we're going to do one of those, like, royal portable off-brand podcasts. So it's like, do you want to be a Madeline, actually? Take your shirt off. Step one. Step two. I don't know. Nobody's listening this far. Step two. Make sure you've actually got a camera set up because we're both not. We're both audio only.
00:01:39
Speaker
Step 3, turn the radio on.
The Role of D&D in Podcast Growth
00:01:42
Speaker
The radio and the radiator. You're going to hide it from your neighbours. Or maybe that will condition them to go. Oh, the radio's on. They must have a short off. Anyway. I've loved shit. What would you even call that? I don't know. But anyway.
00:01:54
Speaker
the podcasts are working on today's Chatsunami. But yeah, today we are going to be going back to, quite frankly, a nostalgic topic because you and I both started at least the very first episode of Chatsunami Live on Twitch, and we ended up talking about a very mutual interest of ours, that of course being Dungeons & Dragons, which my god, can you believe it's been nearly three years as of this episode?
00:02:20
Speaker
I honestly know it's crazy to, you know, Facebook and Google and photos and all that gives you like memories of, you know, three years ago and it's like, oh, oh, that was, that was those times. Three years ago, that was then. But no, it's been amazing to see like the podcast and go from, you know, from being something on Twitch to what it is now. So now it's, it's been, it felt like a long time, but a short time at the same time.
00:02:39
Speaker
it really has because I have to admit one of the tactics that I use to promote the podcast is if there's any anniversaries for a particular game or a movie or something and I'll be like oh here's an episode we did on that but do you know how frustrating it is to have an interest to be like oh something on Star Wars and then I go to promote the podcast and I'm like I haven't talked about that at all. Son of a...
00:03:04
Speaker
So it's just like, oh, and you do realise that although we have talked a lot about certain topics, there's also so many that we haven't touched on.
Promotion Strategies and Early D&D Days
00:03:14
Speaker
So, so many things to talk about in the future. Yeah, like minions 2, returning the memes. Yeah. I actually watched that on a flight. I don't think we've got time for this review but...
00:03:25
Speaker
Let's go for a speedrun review. Not great. And I quite like the first Minions movie. I actually quite like children's animation because you know it's everyone that pretends to like anime. Really it's the same thing. So I quite like children's shows and yeah Minions too, not great. If you want to hear the full review I'll put it on your Patreon. You can blue balls the fans like that. One more than one. A three minute review. Not good. Not good. Jesus not good.
00:03:52
Speaker
It stinks, it stinks. Yes, Craig, you see, everything stinks. Moving that off of minions because, you know, that's next week's episode. But yeah, today we are, of course, going to be talking about the topic that started it all, with that, of course, being Dungeons and Dragons, which
00:04:09
Speaker
I have to admit, the audio quality of this one's gonna be better, the editing's gonna be better, so please listen to this one, don't listen to the first episode, or do, you know, if you're morbidly curious, but would you believe though, it was like even further back that Yu and I started, or maybe Yu before me right enough, but Yu and I started playing this game. Yeah, I actually have, funny, quickly story, I actually went back
00:04:32
Speaker
and I was made a Facebook event recently, which is the first time I've done that in a long time, and I had a look, and it lets you look at your history of Facebook events, and it's like, oh my God, we started playing D&D in what I believe was 2017? Oh my God, lovely. I believe so. Jesus, that is a long time ago. Wait, it actually might be earlier. No, I want to say 2017. No, I was wrong, 2015. Oh my God.
00:04:55
Speaker
Eight years ago. Jesus, eight years ago. I would say where has the time gone but I'm going to go into a slight depression so I'm going to move on. Yeah, because I always remember at the time I had moved away from home to go to university and I used to meet up with of course yourself and a mutual friend.
00:05:14
Speaker
And I always remember you and this mutual friend turned round and said, oh, do you want to play Dungeons and Dragons? And I'm not going to lie, I was very confused when you said that, because I thought you were genuinely joking about it, like saying, oh, let's play Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah, roll dice. Whoa, nerd culture. And I was like, oh, it's Dungeons and Dragons.
00:05:33
Speaker
Before I go on, you know, because obviously spoilers I did get into it and I loved it, but what was it that inspired you to get into it? Kind of the same story. So Collab days I always find something I really want to quickly bring up. So I started playing it in 2014 then and you started playing it in 2015. One thing that I think is worth noting is there wasn't. Like there is now. The publicity behind those drawings. This is pre-stranger things. This is pre-critical role.
00:05:55
Speaker
The only sort of major one I can think of was like Acquisitions Incorporated, it was on YouTube. But you know, a lot of these major Dungeons & Dragons things that we think of now, there was an original Dungeons & Dragons film and it had nothing to do with Dungeons & Dragons. There wasn't much of it in pop culture. And I had a really dissimilar same reaction as you. I lived away from home down in the south of England for a while and didn't have many friends down there. You know, it's tough making friends as an adult. And before I made friends with this guy, he was like, oh, you should come into mine and play Dungeons & Dragons. I was like, ah, it doesn't really sound like me. If I'm honest, it doesn't really sound like my cup of tea.
00:06:24
Speaker
I was like I'll do it, make some friends, have a good time and it turned out it was absolutely incredible. Genuinely, a life altering moment was playing Dungeons and Dragons for me. It basically gave me a whole new way of interacting with my friends I think. So yeah, as soon as I came back to Scotland, since I moved back up, I was like I need to introduce this to everyone that I
Building Friendships Through D&D
00:06:45
Speaker
know. Get as many people playing this as possible because
00:06:47
Speaker
It's special, it's unlike anything else out there. I truly believe it's an incredible and very special form of entertainment. Absolutely. I mean, I would go as far to say that D&D was probably the glue that held our social circle together at times because the amount of times that we met at your place and we played Dungeons and Dragons all the way from, I can't believe I'm saying this, 2015.
00:07:13
Speaker
I think was it 2018 or 19 that I finished? 2019 because I got married the month before the final game. Of course, yeah. Oh, that is crazy to think though. Yeah, I always remember at the beginning being quite nervous because especially with D&D,
00:07:32
Speaker
I'm going to put my cards on the table here. Going back to something you were saying there about how it wasn't as popularised with Stranger Things and Critical Role, it seriously wasn't. It was very much a case of, oh Dungeons and Dragons is still quite a nerdy thing. And then as soon as I got into it with you guys and everything,
00:07:52
Speaker
it was absolutely fantastic. And don't get me wrong, I was quite nervous in the first game. I would let everyone else make decisions and if it came to me, I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna roll the dice and whatever. Can you tell I played D&D? It's like, I roll the dice and then slay the Jabberwocky etc. No jokes aside, and this is a controversial part but I played as a known bard
00:08:14
Speaker
And the reason was because I had a Halfling Lord of the Rings Online character called Blumbrow. And I went, oh, OK, I'll name my character Blumbrow. But I forgot Halflings were a thing. So I decided to go for Gnomes, which I say, to be honest, Gnomes are a cool word. They're steampunk hobbits, as I think you'd describe them. I mean, fantastic description, to be fair. But yeah, they are absolutely a lot of fun to play as and
00:08:40
Speaker
Yeah, ever since that moment I absolutely loved it but out of curiosity, see when you said, oh I'm gonna come back up, I'm gonna introduce it to my friends, were you quite nervous that I wasn't gonna catch on? Yeah, I must have been to some degree but I think it's one of those things if it doesn't catch on, it doesn't catch on and no one ever, like you know, it becomes, I remember that time Craig tried that weird thing. I'm the same guy that also tried to get all my friends to bet on the marble and pick so. I'm not there.
00:09:08
Speaker
I'm not object to failure, I don't know what the term should look for you. I'm not a stranger to failure. I knew someone would at least bite on it because it is quite funny and I think, I don't know if you had this moment but I had a moment when I was playing it the very first time and we were doing this this battle sequence and I was playing as this big half oak. I think it's called Urk or Oof or something and as part of that I got him to pick up a dead cobalt or a wee dragon thing and throw it at one of his pals and to try to scare them off and it worked.
00:09:35
Speaker
and I was like that is impossible to do in a video game, you know, that sequence of events can't be done, that's changing the plan, changing the sequence and I think that's what really caught my attention was like oh no this game is actually reactive to what I do and I knew you and a few other friends who are like into the sort of video games but also into that problem solving element of it would kind of like that and like I said if it didn't work out then you know that would have been life but but no that that was kind of my thing it's like I knew someone would bite because it is it's very unique Dungeons and Dragons
00:10:03
Speaker
it definitely shows you, especially if you're in a friend group who are playing it, and you get to see who kind of pairs off, if that makes sense, you know, and starts doing their own thing.
Unique Storytelling in D&D vs. Video Games
00:10:14
Speaker
Because I have to admit, Adam and I, my co-hosts, of course, in Chatsanami, we ended up pairing off and he played, I think, was it a ranger? What, a human ranger? Yeah, we ended up coming up with some really, like,
00:10:26
Speaker
crazy schemas, like interior decorating businesses. One of the other ones, my favourite one to this day is Adam and I, for some reason we had to like deliver some parcel to. We had to deliver a parcel to, I don't know, like someone across the other side of the city, but we didn't realise ours was like the decoy. So we were very much under the impression that, oh, we are going to deliver the real thing and we got people killed over.
00:10:55
Speaker
I think there were peasants driving the thing and we were jumping off and just seeing them explode. I mean, so, you know, that variant level hated. Is it safe to say that Barr, maybe one or two of them, the rest of the party was relatively level hated?
00:11:11
Speaker
It was a definite mix and I think my favourite was my wife. She would have this exasperated look on her face most of the time because she just wanted to play the damn game. She liked rolling the dice and casting the spells and the mechanics part of the game and you two would be prattling on about interior decorating and what it would be like to open a brewery and all this stuff and she's just like, can we not just for once complete a mission?
00:11:36
Speaker
Going back to your point though, that is the beauty of this game. The fact that
Personal Growth from Playing D&D
00:11:41
Speaker
you can play it however you want. You can either play it very straight to the rulebook, you know, with the mechanics and everything. You win, you lose. Or if you want the roleplay element, which I have to say the roleplay element is, oh my god, it's my favourite part of the game. Because I was, of course, the bard of the group. I wasn't strong. For some reason, I would neither reach and punch people. But I wouldn't
00:12:05
Speaker
you know, I'd be more of a talker than a fighter. I would say lover, but considering what my character got to, that was not on the table. In fact, I actually, in a slight tangent that I always remember, I was horrified to read the memes about bards. Like I went on and I was like, oh, I wonder what people say about bards online. And it's all this, you know, thing about bards are like smutty and they slip around and things. I was like, wait, what?
00:12:32
Speaker
I'm going to open up an interior decorating here. These walls have to go. Adron's in the background going, yeah, yeah, these have to go. Where did I miss a step? Oh, I was, yeah, and I ended up getting people taken to the shadow realm.
00:12:48
Speaker
it nicely. Yeah, it was just, it was absolutely crazy but those were the memorable experiences, you know. One of my favourite ones, I was a London Masters to the press that sort of writes the game. What I would do a lot of times, especially once you guys got more comfortable playing it, is I would just come up with a scenario and not write anymore. So I would literally have a note on my page, it would say something like, I don't know, oak blocking the path and I had no clue what would happen next and you guys would like spin on it.
00:13:12
Speaker
And my favourite one I ever did was guys without travelling and came across a tavern in the middle of nowhere. I think you've been chased at, you've been chased, that was it. Is this by the dragon? Yeah, you've been chased by a dragon.
00:13:26
Speaker
I know, but I'm going to get cancelled for this. My one note, I had a single note in my book and it was, elf what's an arm wrestle? That was the only thing in my entire note. But then Blinbro went up and I thought, so much funnier if the elf's like a mage. So I was like, we'll do like a magic contest. I think we did like a mage hand arm wrestle. So you won one, he won one, then he put a bet on, he bet, I can't remember what he bet now, something I had to make up in the spot. And you bet that Adam's like pet alligator.
00:13:56
Speaker
who was basically by this point the team mascot. He was an important part of the team. I didn't even tell him by the way. And he lost. I didn't want to take the alligator at the party either because like I said he's the team mascot but I didn't really know how else we were going to do this until you basically took the guy outside locked about his side and haven't been eaten by a dragon. That all came from a single piece of like a single sentence I wrote down a piece of paper about 10 minutes before the session.
00:14:24
Speaker
I don't know what's worse, that or the fact that I had to bury the body the next morning and take his foot. So, of course, the rest of the party's saying, oh, Blumborough, where did you get that wonderful blood-soaked foot? I'm like, I don't want to talk. I just put my fry up. I want to go.
00:14:43
Speaker
And of course, yeah, I mean, not me personally, because I feel as if there was a lot of chaotic elements in the party. But I feel as if I didn't help, that's what I'm saying. Especially with a particular NPC that you introduced to the party who was meant to be one of the guides and one of the friendlier characters. And I always remember in the first session, I thought it would be funny. So it was a fairly known called Etsy. And I thought it would be funny to be like, oh, it's he's a dick. He's not cool. Oh, screw you.
00:15:13
Speaker
things. And that snowballed, see from that tiny sentence, into this antagonistic relationship. So much so that I was having Goku versus Vegeta. But the rest of the party, you know, they're fighting the big bads. They're escalating the plot and everything, moving it along. And I'm this fighting with them.
00:15:33
Speaker
I don't know. That was what struck me so much about Dungeons and Dragons and I think being the Dungeon Master being the other side of that, that was so fascinating. So again, with the Etsy, I had this idea he would be the guide and then he would open up the world and he would sort of be that guiding character that just explains everything. And as soon as you guys took a dislike into him, I was like, okay, he's Team Rocket. That's what we'll do.
00:15:54
Speaker
he won't come back because we split it into like seasons, like three seasons and then we had breaks in the season so it was like he would come back for every I think six or seven times he came back to fight you guys like escalation that he died and came back and he died and came back we had him die off cut off screen came back I think he actually eventually obviously turned good at the end a wee bit but that was one of my he's probably my favorite character I came up with
00:16:15
Speaker
Just because of that, you can't predict what the party's going to do when you're writing this and that's what's
Life Skills from D&D
00:16:20
Speaker
so amazing about Dungeon Masters. You write this stuff in your head like, I was totally going to pan out the way I see it pan out and it never ever ever does. And again, there's nothing else like Dungeons and Dragons because if you were to write something, I don't know, like a book, you know how it's going to end. I don't know. If I write something, I usually know how it ends.
00:16:38
Speaker
I mean, that is true. There's a lot of improv that goes on with Dungeons and Dragons. Don't get me wrong, you can technically play it by the book. I have to say, I ran a very short workstation as a DM with you guys. It's amazing how, when I did it, I made the choice of, oh, I'm going to make up my own world, make up my own story, use the rules though from the book. But I was actually surprised when they opened up the book and I'm like, wait, there's a story in here? There's guidelines?
00:17:07
Speaker
And you look up other people's campaigns, it's like, oh, Balrog's Word of the Rings was like, oh, the Balrog of Up the Road, he's coming to get you. And I'm like, there's a Balrog from Up the Road? What the hell? Oh, it was quite shocking. But again, going back to what you were saying, that is just the beauty of this game that you're able to
00:17:26
Speaker
yeah just improvise and create your own story and by extension create your own memories because again i don't want to get too sappy or anything but i do feel as if it did bring us a wee bit closer together as friends overall you know you me everybody else and the group oh i'm just saying i mean so much so that um i believe at my wedding we had a table named after the first island that you guys started on we had like Lego figures on it from D&D and stuff like that
00:17:52
Speaker
I've had a huge influence in my life as well. I think, yeah, the friendship side, but also I think personality and confidence-wise, I think even, for example, this podcast, I'm not
Importance of Group Dynamics in D&D
00:18:01
Speaker
a great either. It used to be a very good talker. I used to go to like speech therapy and stuff like that. This was years and years back now. In Dungeons and Dragons, part of that was getting to improv. You mentioned improv, but getting that quick whip, being able to talk. I still can't do accents.
00:18:14
Speaker
But I think that side of it, the life skills that Dungeons and Dragons gives you, I think is something that doesn't get spoken about very often but it's also an incredible part of it. Oh no, I totally agree with you because you'll be able to attest to this as well when you might not be able to hear it now but maybe at the beginning of the podcast you might have heard it but I'm not a confident person in real life to be honest.
00:18:35
Speaker
I absolutely struggled with, you know, unless someone I knew really well, I struggled with talking to people, opening up and things. And especially with something like D&D, even though I knew everybody, I was quite nervous. I thought, oh, what if I say something and, you know, all that stupid or, you know, people are going to laugh at it. But the more and more you actually get into it, the more you do get, as you said, confidence and you do start interacting with people, you start working together. It's great for team building and things.
00:19:04
Speaker
and I know that sounds weird and ready, you know, okay to be like, oh it changed my life, but genuinely it did help quite a bit to be able to contribute to, even if it's like a fake Save the World storyline, but you know it helps you work towards like a kind of call and go and everything.
00:19:21
Speaker
And it does let you establish those memories, which I have to say, and I don't know if you've ever had any personal bad D&D experiences, but I was absolutely shocked. See, after we started playing and I was looking up on one going, oh, I can't wait to see what everyone else's campaigns are like. And yeah, there's a lot of horror stories, which I was not expecting, to be honest.
00:19:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's like any hobby, isn't it? I think a lot of it comes down to the dungeon master and their personality. Not to bloom on trumpet, but the way we played was very much freeform and I knew we'd kind of like that because we're not. None of us are like sticklers for like war games or like, you know, super into rules and stuff. Maybe you are actually, you know, you're like Warhammer, but you know what I mean? We're not. Thanks for writing me.
00:20:05
Speaker
I'm just keeping my mouth shut up. But you know what I mean, we're not all excited now, we're like rulers and stuff. And there's people that love that stuff, there's people that love war simulators and whatever, more power to them. But I think with Dungeons and Dragons, when you get like a dungeon master, they can choose how the game operates. And so, like I said, I kind of base mine very much on what I think you guys would like, which was a fairly serious world that you guys got to cut listen. The rules were pretty. I'll make them up as I go along.
00:20:30
Speaker
kind of based on fact, but you know. I just avoided some things like inventory management. People do things like you have to roll to collect arrows when you're firing arrows for ammunition, stuff like that. It's like crazy rules. You can go into like so deep in order to do that. I think, yeah, there's there's definitely different ways a dungeon master can play a game, and I think that makes a big effect. And then obviously again, the players have a big impact on what a game's like, and we were quite fortunate thinking that we all knew each other really well, and if there was something going on at the table we didn't like, we would just talk about it. You know, we know something, you know, it's not like
00:20:59
Speaker
and we had players come and go over the years and you know it's not like we're stuck with each other and I think when you read a lot of the horror stories online a lot of time it tends to be I attended a comic or I attended a games workshop or I attended whatever and I'm forced to play with four other players I don't know I think that's typically when the games don't go to other kind of stuff if you're online that's when the tinneker kind of don't go to plan I mean I would 100% agree with that I had an experience with
00:21:24
Speaker
I won't go into too much detail because I, again not to blow my trumpet for the podcast, but I've got like a Chatsu Shorts episode on this particular topic, but long story short I'd got invited to one of these comic shop places and they'd said, oh it's a start for me, and yeah that was exactly the same thing. I was put with these complete strangers in the middle of a campaign and everything and
00:21:49
Speaker
wasn't a great experience to be fair. I probably didn't go into it with the right mentality but at the same time you know it's kind of battling against these strangers who clearly didn't want anything to do with us and we were kind of forced there. It's like you see on programs and it's the kid too as an outcast and they're like oh go into this group you know you'll make friends and then this group turns around and they're like no we don't want you.
00:22:13
Speaker
If you ever show your face here again, we'll throw you to the curb and it's like, oh my god, okay. So yeah, that wasn't great, but I totally agree because there wasn't so much a personal relationship there. The people around the table, I wasn't friends with them. My friend who was with me, he wasn't friends with them. So we had a very negative experience and I said that to you.
00:22:34
Speaker
not to praise you just because you're on but the fact is that if it wasn't for that core experience with you then I don't know how much I would have enjoyed Dungeons and Dragons going forward and I feel as if that's the thing that not a lot of people talk about. They say oh I want to be like Critical Role, I want to be like all of these insert any popular D&D show on here, oh I want to be like this but they kind of fail to realise that that sounds terrible, oh you need friends but
00:23:01
Speaker
You know what I mean? You can build that personal connection as you go along, but you can't just jump in with random strangers in the middle of it and expect it to go well.
Session Zero: Setting Guidelines
00:23:13
Speaker
I think one of the things you hear a lot about is the concept of a session zero. Effectively I think
00:23:17
Speaker
that's kind of what we did and I think it's what most teams said to do and it's like you have a session where you build up your character sheets and you play a wee game and then the DM will go oh by the way if there's anything you don't want let me know and then we did like a session zero sheet but we actually did that like halfway through the game so I haven't discovered it by that point but and it was just like laying out what I kind of basically just lays out what the dungeon master's planning on doing so it's things like the tone and how graphics gonna get whatever and I pretty much said we're doing Indiana Jones
00:23:43
Speaker
Nowadays I'd probably just say the MCU, but Indiana Jones was the example I used for Star Wars. It's like, yeah, the protagonists are in peril. You guys are going to get some terrible times, but ultimately you're probably going to win. It's going to be some funny moments along the way. You know, there's going to be risks and tragedy and stuff, but we're ultimately going to win. I think that's probably what goes wrong a lot of the time, but certainly with Dungeon Masters is they go in, you know, you go in and you're expecting Star Wars and you get Star Trek, I guess maybe, or like you get Saving Private Ryan instead. You know what I mean? There's so many different ways the game works, which is kind of the best thing and the worst thing about it, I guess.
00:24:12
Speaker
I think that is the double-edged sword of Dungeons and Dragons. It's like, you know that comic that you and I love to reference all the time when we talk about D&D? And it's like this clown character who's like, oh, I'm so-and-so, the friend of the clown, honk honk, and they're all like, aha, very funny. That's from the first session. And then it cuts to the last session. And it's a clown in a very dramatic situation being like, I won't leave you behind. You
00:24:36
Speaker
have to leave me bums all the clown and he's like shedding a tear and it's like that is exactly what we went through because I went, especially for my character in particular, but I went from the oh the comical goofy bard gnome to fighting a guy who wanted to become a god with nothing but a loot.
00:24:55
Speaker
and I was like oh my god and you know all the other characters obviously developed alongside us but yeah it's just absolutely and again I know I sound like a broken record but it is a fantastic experience just so long as I think in the beginning would you agree with us that you should maybe temper your expectations to begin with?
00:25:15
Speaker
Oh, a hundred percent. As I was saying, I don't do accents, I still can't do accents, but I think seeing the amount of people that are in red or whatever are like, my DM, they're all right, but they're not as good as I was expecting or my players aren't. It's like, especially when you're watching Critical Role, you're watching people, other people play it, you get this really high expectation. What was really good about you guys is you had no expectation. You know how when you drive with someone who can't drive, as in you're the driver and they're the passenger, and you do something, you know, or you come out the road and they're a bit funny or whatever, and you go, oh man, that was a bit tight, and they go, all right, never noticed it. You know what I mean, like that?
00:25:43
Speaker
If someone's a driver, they go, I think that plays a big part in Dungeons and Dragons is like people expectations. So if you guys had absolutely no clue what was happening, if I'd gone in and played the worst game of all time, you guys would not have known any better.
D&D's Cultural Impact and Media Representation
00:25:56
Speaker
I mean, as someone who runs a podcast and continually moans about the world of podcasts and you guys are just like, all right, cool. That was a good episode. And I'm like, oh, you don't understand the audio imbalance. And you're like, yeah, cool, cool. Yeah, good points. Good points. Yeah, yeah.
00:26:11
Speaker
Oh my god, I totally agree with you there. It is that insider perspective though, but speaking of Critical Role and you know, all these other shows and things, because I don't want to just narrow in on Critical Role because I'm looking at the red panda lawyer in the background and shaking his head going, they've got Critical Role money, don't do it. But do you think, compared to when we started it, because you've got a good point there that because it wasn't
00:26:35
Speaker
as popular, like obviously D&D's always been popular to a degree but not as mainstream as maybe the correct word but do you feel as if it's a good thing that Critical Role and things like that are promoting it or do you think there's caveats to that success?
00:26:52
Speaker
I think you're always going to get like a couple of things, but I think overall, you know, we're talking about a few things going wrong, but we're talking about three reasons of extra people playing it. We're talking about people being able to make money from it that, you know, didn't happen for a long time. Certainly we picked it up on Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 as the version that we played, and that was practically all online, legally all online. People weren't getting paid for that, and it wasn't really until we moved to T5, and I think Wizards of the Coast get a lot more money out of it now. And I think the people who are actually the artists and the DM stuff
00:27:21
Speaker
There's always going to be people who play it and they're not playing it the same, but it's up to them to find out and I think more money in a hobby that I like can only be a good thing. At the end of the day, I want more people playing it and I want more stupidity and more things going wrong. I mean, I can't argue with that. Visibility can only be a good thing. I mean, it's like, for example, Henry Cavill, who ironically, that's when you were talking about war games, he's also opened up about being a Warhammer 40k fan, which I'm not going to lie, that was one of the biggest plot twists of that year.
00:27:50
Speaker
I didn't even announce that because I was like, it sounds weird to say that but you know when celebrities do say omen to dandy or omen to warhammer or whatever and you look at them and initially you think no you're not, no you're not but then they start getting really in-depth about like the lore and everything and you're like oh my god they
00:28:08
Speaker
Yes, Vin Diesel was the one I always think of Vin Diesel when he was like, oh I love Dungeons and Dragons. It was like, I ID really? And then he put up a picture of his, this was on like Facebook or MySpace or Beebo or something that was like that, you know? And he put up a picture of his birthday cake, it was like all the D&D 3.5 books all stacked in a big list. And I was like, oh wow, you are a massive nerd, Vin Diesel. Yeah, the Chronicles of Riddick were not kind.
00:28:33
Speaker
It is actually amazing to see that though and again it's not trying to put celebrities you know in a higher pedestal to be like oh my god they're one of us you know but it is cool to see that it is like so universal and especially nowadays like a lot of celebrities don't have to... this is one of the jokes that you and I reference from The Simpsons where you know when a celebrity says oh I like this particular thing and then another celebrity says I don't like this particular thing
00:29:02
Speaker
and everyone boos the second celebrity, it's like that person's never seen that particular thing in their life. Yeah, it's really interesting to see that nowadays it is so widely accepted, and it sounds weird to say that. Can you imagine about maybe 10-15 years ago thinking D&D would be so accepted?
00:29:21
Speaker
Like I said, if I'd thought about it 10 years ago, I wouldn't have accepted it. You know, I was very skeptical going into it. Nevermind someone else say it. It's really unbelievable that it is such a mainstream thing. The movie's coming out, but it's out. I mean, it's a day-to-day episode there. There's a movie on Among Thieves. To see that, it's kind of crazy because it has to be pretty mainstream now for Hollywood to invest into a brand. And 10 years ago, I wouldn't have dreamed D&D would have made a thing because, like I said, I wouldn't have been in that camp. I would have been like,
00:29:48
Speaker
That was a joke, it was all about load of crap. Because I mean, that's something that you referenced earlier when you said that there is a D&D film, but you and I have watched it. It's not good.
Memories and Advice for New Players
00:29:58
Speaker
I don't actually know what to add to that. It's just it's not the best film. It's all right. But yeah, again, it's all right. And who knows, maybe this new film will be all right as well, or it'll be great or whatever. But that's actually one of the points I wanted to raise actually, because you do hear a lot of people, and this maybe might be the folly of the film, but not because of the way it's made or anything, but it's something you brought up
00:30:21
Speaker
years ago and it's like when you hear someone else tell you about their campaign but you've got no emotional investment in that campaign because you're not the one playing it. So you're kind of like, oh okay. Yeah it's quite a funny thing but I guess nowadays it's like, I think they're just gonna, it's gonna be basically like a Marvel movie isn't it? They're just sticking it in the D&D world. You're talking about the Forgotten Realms or Forbidden Realms or whatever the name of the actual dragon's official canon is. I think it's just gonna be like
00:30:46
Speaker
you know, an action movie in that world. It's forbidden or forgotten. It's one of the two nouns. There's going to be someone sitting on the other side of this podcast and they're like, ah, it's forbidden. Well, that breaking bad guy for the... Oh, your brain transferred behind the car. No, it's forbidden. It's forbidden.
00:31:06
Speaker
Oh, whoops. You know, that's the beauty of this podcast. Sometimes we get things right, sometimes we forget things. But here's what we're going to do is real quick, I'm just going to say both and then use edit out the one that I said wrong. You know, so it's definitely called the forgotten realms, forbidden realms. There we go. And now I'm right either way. So yes, it is in that. Yeah, no problem. Both are staying in.
00:31:31
Speaker
Oh, you should not give me the power to end it. But to end the episode at a closing point, because this is indeed our, I mean, admittedly late 10K plays special. And of course, you and I are going back to the very beginning to talk about a topic that's very near and dear to us. Do you have any advice for any future or prospective D&D players?
00:31:55
Speaker
First of all, hit me up because I really want to play, so you know, give me a shout. Just be open to it. I think that's what we both kind of mentioned, that is we both went in with what's this going to be, what's going to happen. I think both from our player and at Undermaster's perspective, just be open and go to the floor and see what happens because Dungeons and Dragons is ridiculous. It's emotional. It opens maybe doors into yourself that maybe you don't want to share. You do it by accident. Part of the role playing is number crunching the stash. You're going to get an emotional investment to random
00:32:22
Speaker
characters, the dungeon master made up by accident, there's going to be all sorts of shenanigans and memories you'll have for a lifetime. We still reminisce about it and it brought our friend Groot close together, so just be open to the journey because if you have half a good time that we did, then it's going to be brilliant. No, I can only echo that. It is definitely a bonding experience. I think it's the best way to put it. And on the right ways, and I completely agree about the emotional investment because, and spoilers for our campaign,
00:32:51
Speaker
I suppose if you ever post it on YouTube or anything but yeah I actually remember one particular moment where my character died but because of some absolute fluke a couple of sessions previously.
Emotional Investment in D&D
00:33:05
Speaker
No a couple of years previous. Or was it actually? Yes! Oh you were sitting on that ache when I like.
00:33:12
Speaker
I ended up coming back to light, or my character, sorry. Not me, I'm not Jesus. I was actually gutted. I'm not going to lie, I don't know if I've ever told you my feelings about it. But I genuinely felt as if it's so weird, because again, this is a fictional character. It's not going to affect my life, whether they're there or not, kind of thing. But at the same time, I was just like, oh my God, blood blows dead.
00:33:39
Speaker
And everything. You do. You feel as if, oh, you've got it. You're winded. You're like, oh, is this the end? Am I going to have to roll for a new character? And obviously when you pulled the twist out, I was like, you son of a...
00:33:50
Speaker
and then I have to see ever since then because I was very cavalier and in the way I played the game I was like oh good to do this I'm going to do that but see after that and I don't know if you noticed but I was very cautious after that but that also played into the story as well because what happened to you in real life happened to the character and it was oh it's so fun and like just I just want to quickly mention something you mentioned about your boot
00:34:09
Speaker
being devastated your character's getting killed off it's like what's so amazing for me about you know we're talking about you can't write a book if you want to play Dungeons and Dragons and Blinborough your character his story wasn't finished and I also thought that was so fascinating I kind of wish he had the iron away because his story still had an arc left to go and we got the arc in the end and he got all the you know the big bow tighter and everything that was nice but how fascinating is it that Akihabitek can just get cut
00:34:33
Speaker
See you later. I always thought that was really cool. Some of the players, we had players that changed character, we had players that left, their characters just never go up the arc. I thought it was really funny. It was an emotionally charged experience, I think, to get right to him. It was absolutely, you're completely right. It's just so volatile. Because I actually do remember that session where we were all rolling the dice, or sorry, I was rolling the dice to save my life. And I was like, no. And everyone's like, oh, this is going to be the one, this is going to be the big, you know, come back and then I just died.
Reflecting on Friendship and Personal Growth
00:35:02
Speaker
through the days, and I was like, oh, and honest to goodness, again, going back to my Chats to Shorts episodes, but I actually do have an episode on Blinbro the Bart, so if you want to check that out, please do. It tells you the whole Simonize the Bridge story of him from his beginning to his humble end, as it were. Don't get me wrong, I did love the fact it was a kind of Lord of the Rings-esque end, that we all ended up happy together, we all reunited at the end for another drink and everything.
00:35:30
Speaker
And it's just, there was a nice finality to it, but the thing about it is, it's like, Blumrose, you know, drinking in that tavern, it's like, I should be alive, right? Seriously, without getting too sentimental, I'll try not, I'll try not get too sentimental if I realize if I wanted to.
00:35:46
Speaker
but I took a photo of everyone on our Polaroid camera on that last session and that is kind of like an end of an era, that final session because that was because it was a month after I got married. We got everyone there which was unusual because usually the sessions we didn't get everyone and it was one of my last times in that flat and in many ways it was kind of the last time I think we were all together in that capacity. All of us and it was kind of because obviously then they said it was 2019 so not long after Covid hits and you know it's kind of everything changes and it's like that
00:36:11
Speaker
final session was such an incredible I think for all of us but like for me it was it was kind of closing closing the door on a lot of stuff and you know I'd spent five years six years writing this story for it all to come to the end I was like bloody hell what am I gonna do now my time now I see that that at the end of that is genuine like a chapter of my life that was my post credit scene and loads of things whatever they after the thing gets destroyed that was like the little bit for me at the end and the same way that they had it that was kind of it it was amazing quite emotional to look back on in a way because that was like what a moment
00:36:39
Speaker
And again, this was all because we played a silly little game where you wrote some dice. Oh no, absolutely. It was definitely up with the bookend to the end of an era, as you said. It was that precursor to what the 2020s would bring us. And I'm sure the 2020s will have some wonderful, beautiful life-ending, I mean, sorry, life-changing moments, of course. But yeah, it was, and again, this makes a sound, or sorry, it makes me sound old saying this, but it was a simpler time, almost.
00:37:09
Speaker
Although it was kind of the transitional period where either when we're just finishing uni or when we're just getting out of uni and working and starting those formative years and developing as the people that we're going to become.
00:37:25
Speaker
The fact is that we were still developing, we were getting closer to one another and everything, and you're completely right. That kind of ending was, yeah, just the perfect end to the 2010s. It was that perfect summary. So, no, I totally agree with you, and I don't think it's, well, it is sentimental, but in all the best ways possible. Because I think what makes it even more special is the fact that not many people get that moment, and
00:37:51
Speaker
D&D. Not like that but it's entirely unique to us. That experience and I mentioned it right back at the start when I was saying what do we do Dungeons and Dragons and it's everything's very unique. You know what I was saying about oh I threw that dragon at another dragon. I was like wow you can't do that in a game and you can't do any of this in a game and I think we had this shared experience which is you're talking about you can't tell people stories from your D&D camping because it's never as funny. This is the same like it's because it's so unique to you. We shared a lot of this man this is getting really deep now.
00:38:18
Speaker
It's okay, you're amongst friends. Just me, you and everyone listening to this podcast. Just ignore them at the window. You know what I mean? It was something that is truly unique to us that nobody else on the planet experienced what we did in that way. And I think that's kind of, yeah, it's kind of amazing when you think of it like that. I've never really said that out loud before, so that's kind of amazing to think about. Yeah, I don't have a finishing point. It's just, wow, it's a hell of a game and it's been a hell of a good time. I can only copy that and say, yeah, go play D&D. What are you doing here?
00:38:48
Speaker
Grab some dice off of Amazon, go, go, go! This episode's sponsored by Tom Oaken. And if you want sentimental moments, no. No, I completely agree. It is, again, it's one of those shared experiences that you just, again, anyone kind of tried to know what you were saying, but it is definite with that case of you start off thinking, oh, it's going to be a silly game about dice and monsters and
00:39:13
Speaker
creatures or the deep and everything, oh it's going to be this, and they're going to have wacky adventures and not get invested in it. You know, because I mean we've played games like, for example, I'm looking at the box in the background, but like, explosion kittens or, you know, like card games, Yu-Gi-Oh! things like that. We've played all these like board games and we've never got, you know, emotionally attached except for Risk.
00:39:34
Speaker
That's another therapy session for another day, but you never really get emotionally invested, but the fact that you go on thinking, ah, it's just another game, we're just going to pass the time, we're going to have fun, and by the end of it, you do, because I actually remember, and this is my final point this year, but I always remember you actually bringing out the, like you had four alternative endings, is that right?
00:39:57
Speaker
I wrote them all, I pre-wrote four endings for the game. And we got the good ending. The other endings were horrific. Yes, the big bad takes over, he destroys everything you love. I'm like, oh man, even my bar, especially the bar. It was a wonderful ending, a wonderful campaign as well. And I mean, even though you and I have both played D&D since, I mean, it's never, and again, I'm not trying to say this with nostalgia glasses, but it's never going to live up to that.
00:40:25
Speaker
was very special because it was the first one for us as well and we actually finished it which I think is very rare. I feel like to actually finish a kind of DD campaign. Because I mean even when I tried to do one I think we go probably three or four sessions
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:40:38
Speaker
in. Like a couple of sessions and then obviously because of Covid we had Takana and then because I took up streaming and podcasting I just like had to leave it to the side and
00:40:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think a lot of people try doing it online and everything and obviously it's going to work for some people, not for others. But you're completely right, the fact that it ended on 2019. Can you imagine if you said, yeah, the finale 2020. Why not? Let's do it in 2020.
00:41:05
Speaker
Yeah, that would have just, it would have been the same, but the fact that not only did we have that amazing experience, but the fact that that was the very first topic that you and I talked about for this podcast in particular, you know, it really says a lot. As we finish up, thank you Craig for not only introducing me to D&D and the wider audience listening at home,
00:41:26
Speaker
course. But yeah, for kicking off Chatsunami and allowing us to share our experiences. Thank you back Ithas. Thank you for letting me start Chatsunami with you. All those taking that risk all that time ago. And thanks for taking the risk to come play Dungeons and Dragons with me because the butterfly effect of falling dominoes me being on this podcast and you playing D&D are probably intricately linked. Who knows? But no, thank you. It's been a pleasure.
00:41:49
Speaker
Thank you Craig and thank you everyone so much for listening to this episode. As always if you want to listen to more of our episodes you can listen to us on all good podcast apps. You can also check us out on podpage.com forward slash chat tsunami and once again I
00:42:05
Speaker
huge shout out to our patrons, RoboticBattleToaster and Sonya, thank you so much. If you want to check out our exclusive content on Patreon, you can check it out at patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami. But until then, thank you all so much for listening to this episode. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, please, I'm just tracking to the screen. Please, he's lonely. I thought you were going to say roll a critical hit, but... Yeah, probably. Is that what they could say?
00:42:35
Speaker
This episode is sponsored by Zencaster. If you're a podcaster that records remotely like me, then you'll know how challenging it can be to create the podcast you've always wanted. That's where Zencaster comes in. Before I met Zencaster, I was put a naive podcaster, recording on low quality, one-track audio waves.
00:43:10
Speaker
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