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EP31: Sam Sells - Redesigning Poverty Through Real Estate
44 Plays7 days ago
“The only way to help people get out of poverty is to help them make money.”
The episode unpacks how long-term poverty alleviation must go beyond charity and shift toward systems that generate wealth locally. Using the lens of real estate development, the conversation reveals that when people are empowered with knowledge, infrastructure, and access, they gain both dignity and sustainability. The key lies in designing environments where communities can thrive economically, socially, and ecologically—not as recipients of aid, but as creators of value.
Sam Sells shares deep lessons from his years in military global health, working with NGOs and governments in underserved countries. He explains how Impact Growth Capital is rethinking affordable housing by integrating solar-powered infrastructure, on-site education, childcare, and an AI platform to guide residents from $0 to $50K income in two years. He critiques the inefficiencies of top-down aid and lays out how economic incentives can drive transformative regeneration.
Sam Sells is the CEO of Impact Growth Capital and the host of The Disruptive Capitalist. A U.S. military veteran, he spent over a decade in global health and now builds purpose-driven communities that uplift the poor while delivering returns for investors.
- Website: https://impactgrowthcap.com
- Email: Sam@impactgrowthcap.com
- LinkedIn: Samuel Sells
- Podcast: The Disruptive Capitalist
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:00
Speaker
With the new facility, we have a child care facility on site, an education center on site, business center on site, work with the people on their own personal plan to become whatever it is that they really want to become. But the target is to get somebody from zero dollars in income to fifty thousand dollars a year in income in two years.
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Regenerative Design podcast. I'm your host, Mathieu Mehuys, and in this show, I interview the leading authorities in the world of regenerative practices.
00:00:30
Speaker
People who do good and do well. Are you a person that cares about your environment and our planet? Are you a person that wants to leave the planet to our children to be something that we can be truly proud of?
00:00:43
Speaker
something to enjoy for many generations to come. But are you also a person that believes we can do all of this and do good in business? Well, I have really good news for you.
00:00:55
Speaker
You're here listening to the podcast that is all about making our planet a better place and making your business more successful.
Samuel Sells: Personal and Professional Background
00:01:03
Speaker
Enjoy the show.
00:01:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Regenerative Design Podcast. the Today we have ah yet again another amazing guest. His name is Samuel Sells. He's the CEO of Impact Growth Capital, which is a company focused on real estate investing, but making it accessible for people to do and at the same time having a social impact.
00:01:32
Speaker
So I'm very excited to talk about the social impact of investing and going really deep into that. So Samuel, welcome to the show. How are you doing today? Thank you for having me that on the show, Matthew. It is wonderful to be here and I'm doing very well. Thank you.
00:01:48
Speaker
Nice. So let's go a little bit back in history. We talked shortly offline already about ah how you grew up and and what happened to you with but your father.
00:01:59
Speaker
and don't necessarily want to go there, but I'm just curious, where where did everything start? How did you get into what you're doing today? do you have any hints in your childhood? Were you already aware of what you're actually doing today?
00:02:12
Speaker
So, ah grew up in rural Oklahoma and had wonderful parents. just had They had no idea how to make money. And so I was very, very fortunate in that way. Grew up on a dirt road down the street from the Indian Reservation. That's where my friends were.
00:02:29
Speaker
um and you know, just experienced that American poverty for a long time. I was a really weird kid. You know, when I was young in my journal, i was a teenager and I wrote, i want to do three things in my life. I want to serve God. I want to serve my country. And then I want to serve my fellow man.
00:02:47
Speaker
And, I was always drawn to money. i was very interested in money. We did not have money. My folks were not money minded. and They were just constantly, constantly broke all the time.
00:02:59
Speaker
And so I, at a young age, I wanted to figure out how to break that cycle. um like After we moved to Texas, when I was a teenager, I graduated high school from Texas.
00:03:11
Speaker
um went on a mission for my church. After that, got married, went to work in construction, and was like, ah, I've got to get back to what I really want to do. So then I joined the military, got into the military, and over time became an officer and spent over a decade in
Insights on Financial Education and Sustainable Change
00:03:29
Speaker
global health. While I was in global health, I spent a lot of time in the poorest countries on the planet, and I saw what real poverty was.
00:03:37
Speaker
Afghanistan, Chad, Sub-Saharan Africa, South Africa, West Asia, some Southeast Asia. um And, you know, and just and I remember Thinking over and over again, it just really comes back to our home, where we grow up, our neighborhood, our community. You don't have to be rich to be happy. You can be happy anywhere, but your life outcomes are so much better if you grow up in ah in an area where you learn how to handle money, where you learn how to self-sufficient.
00:04:13
Speaker
And most people just don't have that around the world. They don't grow up in that situation. um and And so about eight years ago, seven or eight years ago, I decided i had learned while working with foreign militaries, foreign governments, presidents, ambassadors, and all these people that if you align incentives where people can make money doing good, they will do it over and over again.
Real Estate Impact and Local Economies
00:04:36
Speaker
I worked with a lot of nonprofits and saw how they had to go chase money all the time, constantly chasing money. to do good. And I thought, man, there's gotta be a better way to do this. So why can't we make money doing good?
00:04:48
Speaker
And that's what we started. So seven years ago, we started a real estate company focused on redeveloping the most distressed crime ridden little communities and clean them up, make them clean, safe places to live naturally affordable. We're not gentrifying. We're not moving poor people out and rich people in,
00:05:08
Speaker
um In fact, most of the residents stay there, they just have a paradigm shift that, you know, you can't trash everything. You need to keep everything clean and standards and communities change like that. We've seen our communities drop, crime rates drop by over 75%. We've seen, we've just seen a lot of really good goodness come out of this and make money for our investors in the process.
00:05:32
Speaker
Wow, I love that. And is it's something that I've also been talking about ah myself is that, and I don't know if it's true and I want to open a discussion here, but what I've seen in the history of how we actually want to change the world is that oftentimes or let's say from the 60s, we had like Aid for Africa, all these systems that I still think they come from a good place, like we're trying to help people, but they all come from a space like, oh, I'm superior and I'm going to help you.
00:06:05
Speaker
And like, even though I've studied this, that in and the European Union after the World Wars, the farming system became so industrialized that the governments were subsidizing farmers to produce as much food as possible and and giving.
00:06:22
Speaker
Yeah, and all of a sudden Europe had way too much milk. There was an overproduction. They called it the the butter mountain of Europe. There was just too much to consume. So in in a way we had solved ah the hunger that came after the World Wars because like after 1945, there were there were hunger in Europe.
00:06:42
Speaker
people were starving, it was a tough time. So the policy, i mean, this is pre-European Union, but still the countries were deciding on policies. So let's say mass production of food.
00:06:55
Speaker
So we solved that issue and then we had too much milk and they say, okay, what can we do with this excess milk that we have? Oh, Africa seems to be in and a lot of trouble. ah People are starving there.
00:07:07
Speaker
We're gonna make that milk into powder and we're gonna give it away for free to the communities in Africa. Sounds like a good plan, right? It's like, yeah why not? Let's do something good for the world.
00:07:18
Speaker
yeah and with the taxpayers' money. But what ended ended up happening is that the local communities, the local farmers that had two, three, four, five, even 10 cows, they run up they got out of business because all of a sudden there was free milk in those communities. And that destroyed the livelihood of many farmers in Africa and actually made the problem worse in Africa. So we have to be very careful on on like...
00:07:45
Speaker
And that's where I want to open the discussion from your perspective. like A lot of NGOs come in as like, we're going to help you. Here's money. We're going to do this for you. But it doesn't work. There's no transaction.
00:07:55
Speaker
There's no exchange of of energy or help or something. So I want to hear from your perspective through your career. Did you work with NGOs? Did you see similar things happening?
00:08:06
Speaker
and And why is it so unsuccessful? there's ah There's a great book called The Ugly American. And if you're interested in the space at all, you should go read the Ugly American. It really hits these key points.
00:08:19
Speaker
I worked at USAID on a fellowship. USAID was you know the largest humanitarian arm, the humanitarian arm of the United States before ah Trump kind of shut it down and pushed it into the State Department.
00:08:33
Speaker
The... thing here that I saw over and over again is exactly what you just hit on, Matthew. um i saw it a lot on the healthcare side. So U.S. or some private hospital would get rid of a gigantic um MRI machine ah and they would give it to a hospital in Africa. The hospital in Africa receives it, thanks them, tell tells them it's amazing,
00:08:59
Speaker
and then puts it in ah in a room where it fits, closes the door, locks it, and never uses it. The reason they can never use it is because they only have power three hours a day, and that power is not sufficient to run that machine.
00:09:14
Speaker
The machine breaks, they don't know how to fix it. They don't have supplies. um Even if they did, culturally, they don't believe in the MRI machine. Like, you know, some of them don't think you should look inside the body.
00:09:26
Speaker
And that's a different culture shift. So the Americans just spent like $2 million dollars getting this thing transported across the world, gave it to them, feel fantastic about what they've done. yeah And the Africans are like, what is this gigantic paperweight doing? Now I can't use that room in my hospital to do whatever.
00:09:46
Speaker
certainly yeah And so this happens all the time, all the time America. what it What I learned and what I became very very razor focused on when I was working with foreign militaries is it's got to be a local solution.
00:10:02
Speaker
It has to be a local solution. So we want them to buy this. you know, $900 first aid kit, which is stupid. like Like guys, can you just get some bandages and this, that, and the other thing, and then you guys can do this all on your own.
00:10:20
Speaker
So teach them how to put together their own stuff. um And then back to that point of when you get a nation's leadership to understand how to make money or grow power by helping people get out of poverty,
00:10:35
Speaker
then things really change. um And it just, that became my my focus. i Just every time Americans are over there trying to give them stuff, give them money.
00:10:49
Speaker
And I just was like, no, no, let's not, no, cut it off, stop it. They may need money, but let's teach them how to make money first. You teach them how to make money doing good,
00:11:02
Speaker
It's a, it becomes sustainable. You don't need Americans or Europeans to come in there and give them stuff anymore. And you're right. You come in there, you give them bunch of free stuff. You can destroy their economy or you can destroy their families, life savings, their jobs.
00:11:18
Speaker
It's a ah sticky issue. And you I just see it. I've seen it from so many NGOs coming in and just give, give, give, give. give And it's not the right approach.
00:11:29
Speaker
No, and it's not sustainable if you look at it like, okay, you can give money once, you can give it twice, three times, they will buy ah whatever they need. But then the NGO is going to, like it's a money drain, there's no yeah income.
00:11:45
Speaker
so and And a lot of NGOs, they are so dependent on institutes that fund them. So when ah whenever an institute decides like, hey, no more funding, then whatever happens next is like, okay, we don't have money, we have to shut down the NGO.
00:12:01
Speaker
that's That's crazy. that's not the That doesn't work. Many of them spend more money raising money than they do helping people. Oh yeah, I heard about that. so Some
Innovative Solutions and AI Development
00:12:11
Speaker
of the more famous company well companies that take money from people that die, like if you put it in your, what do you call it?
00:12:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, you say you die, I want to gift it to those companies that will do something good for the world. They take like 70% just to operate the company. I'm like, You're employing people to to then what?
00:12:34
Speaker
Yeah. To help other people, but it's not going where it's supposed to go. That's wild. it's It's wild, yeah. And then I want to add another story that I heard from someone else that I interviewed on my podcast is that now the whole new thing is around carbon credits, helping climate change, monetizing on... on ah getting as much carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere into the ground, into the soil.
00:12:59
Speaker
There's something to say that it's a good initiative if we can monetize on that. But then there was like a campaign where they said, okay, most people in Africa, not most, but a big portion of people in Africa, and I might be saying some mistakes, but I'll try and do my best.
00:13:15
Speaker
Most people in Africa use just normal wood to cook. They make a fire and they put stones and they put the pot on it and that emits greenhouse gases, whatever. it is They did some calculations like, oh, it's massive.
00:13:29
Speaker
So they said, you know what? we're going to get with Companies are going to buy carbon credits and with those carbon credits, we're going to buy ah metal stoves that we're going to gift to those communities in Africa so they don't have to use as much wood to cook because a metal stove is more efficient energetically.
00:13:53
Speaker
Again, kind of makes sense, sounds like a good plan. well So they did the campaign, they spent so much money on on getting that into Africa. Next thing happens, All the people start selling that metal stove just to get more money. They're like, I have enough wood here. Why would I have to use this stove?
00:14:12
Speaker
Well, thank you for giving this stove, but I'm selling it as metal waste and and making some extra money. So never it never works to come in like, hey, here's something for you for free in a way.
00:14:24
Speaker
The only way to help people get out of poverty is to help them make money. That's it. What do you think is like the core reason for that? Is there like, because if you go through live, you you also sometimes help a help a friend. It's natural to just sometimes give for free, right?
00:14:40
Speaker
You invite a friend for dinner, you help people in such way, but then why doesn't it work on a bigger scale? what where Where do i have to differentiate? We treat it like an emergency. All right. So if you break your leg, you're you're you're having an emergency. You need immediate care.
00:15:00
Speaker
Poverty is not an immediate care issue. Sometimes they need to eat right now. Right. But... It's a endemic, it's complex problem.
00:15:16
Speaker
And the only way you get out of poverty is it takes years of work to help people change how they think. And then they need access and knowledge.
00:15:30
Speaker
So they need access. So so let's let's take this for example. Let's say, um and A lady named Sally is in Africa. It's not an African name, but let's say Sally is, um she has two little kids and she's going to cook on the stove and her boyfriend comes and goes, right? He goes to work or he he tries.
00:15:54
Speaker
Sally has no way to make and any money. She has no access to make money. Who's going to pay Sally anything when she works or when she lives, you know, these two little kids.
00:16:06
Speaker
So if you were to provide a a system where she can learn, she can make beads and now she needs access to take those beads and necklaces and everything she likes making, she enjoys it um She needs access. She needs channels where she can sell those beads without leaving her kids behind.
00:16:26
Speaker
She needs to know how to market those things. And then she could sell those things all around the world, potentially. We live in a world now where you could do that. And so we're working on ah an ai tool that does exactly that right now.
00:16:39
Speaker
Wow, that's incredible. And it should be ready for the public in the next three months. We're getting pretty close to having it done. We're going to start A-B testing it here pretty soon.
00:16:51
Speaker
But the whole objective is to enable somebody like Sally in Nigeria or Liberia or the Congo or in the Azores to you know discover things that they like to do that can make money and then how they can how they can do it for money and then get them access to the channels to distribute those goods, materials, services, whatever it is. That's amazing.
00:17:21
Speaker
That's brilliant. it It's been my brainchild for a while is is how do we help people get out of poverty? And then with AI being where it's at, it was finally like, let's build this thing because the the things that keep people out are in poverty is access and knowledge. Mm-hmm.
00:17:40
Speaker
Right. I love this because it reminds me of there's, I don't know if you've heard of the initiative called Project Drawdown, because obviously I'm coming from the angle, okay, you're coming from the angle, we need to look at the social aspect of solving big world problems.
00:17:59
Speaker
And I'm looking at from the environment perspective. And both are equally valuable. Maybe the social is more important, but they all interconnect, right? And this reminds me of an initiative initiative called Project Drawdown, which is like, okay, how are we actually going to solve this climate riddle?
00:18:16
Speaker
Because um it's kind of getting a mess, looking at wildfires everywhere, droughts, then all of a sudden too much rain. Like it's real. Some people are still questioning that, but just travel around and and look at some places in in and difficult climatological situations. is like It's serious because what are how can we do socially good things if you can't live in in an in a healthy environment?
00:18:42
Speaker
That becomes obsolete. So at the same time, we have to do both. But there's the initiative project Drawdown. They made like a ah list 100 things that we should be focusing on to reverse climate change pretty much. And I think ah funny enough, one of the high things is like we have to recycle refrigerators, refrigerators, because ah refrigerators are used as a chemical, they put them on the landfill and then that gas gets emitted.
00:19:12
Speaker
This is a funny example, but I think the highest is to empower young men women in in whatever you call it, underdeveloped regions, because if you can empower under ah if you can empower women in most of the underdeveloped regions, the women are the decision makers. Like in Africa, they they make the decision. So if you can empower them to to become a business owner, like you said, and they will teach their their daughters how to do that as well, then lot of the problems will be solved because
00:19:48
Speaker
that the faster those countries can can be empowered to to education, to get access to all those things that we have and in the Western world, the faster they will realize, okay, we have to be respectful of our environment and align with nature. And maybe they already have that in their history, but they they don't have the means to do something with it. So found very interesting that you're just bringing exactly that up. That's having a huge impact on the environment. I don't know if you ever thought about it, but but it is.
00:20:18
Speaker
it It is. And, you know, when we we started working with public housing authorities because I was looking for like, who's the biggest slumlord in America? And it turns out to be the American government is the biggest slumlord in America. they have over 197,000 units.
00:20:33
Speaker
ninety seven thousand units And you think about the impact of 897,000 apartments um and housing units, and we create an ecosystem.
00:20:45
Speaker
and So when we take over, we tear down these old buildings and we build new buildings made out of steel, made made with solar power and batteries, far more efficient, far more efficient.
00:20:58
Speaker
um But if somebody is living in poverty, they don't care about solar, they don't care about the environment. They may want to care about it, but they're not doing it. And the way you get them to care about stuff like that is by helping them get out of the, I can't eat today unless I do this thing, right? And get them to a place where they can think about other things besides feeding their family.
00:21:22
Speaker
um And so to me, the biggest issue in the world right now is poverty. And if you can get people out of poverty, then you can then you can address climate. Then you can address um a lot of the social issues. You can address a lot of the the political issues.
Private Sector's Role in Addressing Global Issues
00:21:41
Speaker
Because people get out of poverty, they start seeking knowledge. They have access to knowledge. They start understanding issues better. And they stop listening to... um you know, whatever crackpots on the news trying to get clicks.
00:21:56
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That's very interesting. I think it's also fascinating that, yeah, you can solve poverty, but the good thing that I'm focusing on in with my work is that if we can reverse climate change by things that actually work, not just some policies. And again, this's this is like Novel approach, stuff that actually works. Yeah. It's great. It's interesting. like you you you you have the Your podcast is called The Disruptive Capitalist. I love that name.
00:22:25
Speaker
But I also believe like if we want to wait for the government to solve the world problems, and think like Uncle Ben is going to do it for us or or like we we're all like, oh, the next politician is going to do some great stuff.
00:22:38
Speaker
It doesn't work. Like we have to step up and take our own responsibility. And the best way to do that is to start a business. Like if I i want to have an impact on our environment, And I went through my own journey and I tried a lot of different things and i found out, okay, if I'm serious about it, I have to start building a business, making money, helping people ah to do the same. Like I designed gardens for clients. I'm teaching other people how to start.
00:23:03
Speaker
their gardening business, I coach people in that realm. Now I'm having an impact and a ripple effect and and I'm doing it in the way that I believe is true and works. I also grew up on a farm.
00:23:15
Speaker
My brother is a farmer. We're changing it to become regenerative, starting to help other farmers to do the same, even getting to work in in Haiti where collaborating with someone, we're starting to collaborate. So it's all like this is, and it's the only way to do that is to have a business. if i start an NGO, or I can't do all what I'm doing. that it It doesn't work. or or So i'm I'm very excited to meet meet someone like mine that's so much aligned in that vision. you know
00:23:45
Speaker
um When you make money improving the environment, Like you just know people will copy you, which is great. You want to be copied, right? Like I want to be copied. I want a lot of people to copy me. Yeah.
00:24:00
Speaker
Cause it, it will take thousands or millions of us doing these things to really, you know, that many pebbles and in the ocean will, will make a difference. Yeah. um You know, in in this endeavor, we found solar guys who learned how to install solar for free on people's homes.
00:24:18
Speaker
And then they monetize the tax credits in America and then for investors. And so they split profits with investors and with the the cities themselves. So now the city's making money having these guys come in and install solar power on houses.
00:24:34
Speaker
And then the people who live in the houses, their electric bill just went away or mostly went away. And then you have investors who get money. And so it just ends up being this great thing. And we're reducing the the need on the power grid. And, you know, we're increasing the amount of solar and battery and everything else.
00:24:53
Speaker
And, you know, there's an argument to be made that batteries are pretty bad for the environment. And... um I get that. Still to be on the, yeah, discovered. But yeah, still the more you can get on solar.
00:25:05
Speaker
And and then I love these kinds of business ideas because you're focusing on creating value, helping people, making your investors happy. Because still that's what why our investors there. They want to make money. That's why you're an investor. It's like there's nothing to be ashamed of.
00:25:20
Speaker
That's what you want to do. So we have to align with that as well. But then as a side note, we're actually solving climate change, just like, hey, on the side, we're actually ah making things better. And this this is the only way we're actually going to solve it is by doing things better. Because just for goodwill or because governments are going to, um and like like, say this is the the regulation, now you have to do it in such way, that's that's doomed to fail. And that's where I see there's a ah really...
00:25:49
Speaker
a paradigm shift like either we're going to do good for the environment and it's going to become a very miserable life for us. We're going to have to pay more taxes. We can't fly planes. we Like government is going to regulate what we're doing. And this is actually happening in in Europe.
00:26:07
Speaker
Or we have to keep being very um bad for the environment. We have to extract. And maybe that's what's happening in America at the moment. Like there's ah this paradigm. It's either be very disruptive or not disruptive because yeah that's your post podcast, but either we are very extractive to the planet and we have a luxurious life or we have to become like a slave of mother nature yeah and we can't have a good life. Like we have to now pay for all the debt we have created. No, we can actually bring those together and this creates real change. All the rest is is is not sustainable.
00:26:47
Speaker
And for some reason, a lot of the non-sustainable things have been what caught everybody's attention. And that's what where all the money went, or a lot of the money went. and And then when it didn't work, people got frustrated.
00:27:02
Speaker
And, you know, it's like, well, we didn't use the money the way that we should have used the money. Yes. Yeah. And then you get in another paradigm where people say, oh, it's just all a fad and climate change is not real. They were just trying to steal our money and there's something to say for it, but like it's, it's not, it's like, you still have to have your own opinion and and look outside and yeah talk to people in other countries. Like how.
00:27:32
Speaker
Yeah. Even if you don't believe in climate change, Or you believe in it, but you don't believe it's caused by man, regardless having clean air, clean water, clean earth.
00:27:44
Speaker
Like it does that, we need to do that. Right. We need to do that. And, um, You know, there's been plenty of cases where places like Los Angeles, Salt Lake City, where the mountains keep all the the pollution right there in the center.
00:28:00
Speaker
You know, they've cleaned up. Both those cities have cleaned up a lot. Los Angeles still struggles a bit, but Salt Lake City is very clean now compared to where it was 20 years ago. And people breathe a lot easier. There's less cancer.
00:28:13
Speaker
um People are healthier. And so, like, I think we all want to be healthy and live healthy lives. We can do that. We can do that in a way that makes money and we can do that in a way that improves lives. so like to me, that's the perfect business. It improves lives and it makes money.
00:28:32
Speaker
And the government, like you said earlier, will never solve this problem. This podcast is brought to you by the Garden of Your Dreams Masterclass. Are you struggling with finding the right tools and tricks for your garden?
00:28:43
Speaker
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00:28:57
Speaker
They can't. And we shouldn't expect it for them. there The government is there to to regulate, to guide and to make sure that everything is in order and and make sure the streets operate well and the the power, the the infrastructure.
00:29:13
Speaker
Like this is it. We can't expect more. We have to do it ourselves. like It's never been like that actually. no There's no government that said, oh no, we are in charge of um agriculture or we are in charge of real estate. they They've tried it, but like you said, now and they tried it to do it in in the US, who is already a very capitalistic country.
00:29:34
Speaker
They tried to do housing, affordable housing. And now you said you have close to 900,000 pretty much slums slums in America. So that's a clear proof that that doesn't work. it's ah Yeah, they've had, public housing has had that housing for 50, 60 years.
00:29:53
Speaker
And it's mostly slums. So clearly government housing is not the answer. But ironically, like it never hits the news, I think, because people don't care about black people or they don't care about poor people.
00:30:05
Speaker
I don't know. But it should be in the news. two hundred and in the U.S., 267,000 units failed a housing inspection last year. and people live in those things.
00:30:16
Speaker
Jesus. Yeah. and then it And so we're we're trying to change that. And fortunately, whether you hate the Trump administration or love them, fortunately, they've been very receptive of, yeah, we can't be doing this anymore. It's been like this for 50 years. It needs to get fixed.
00:30:35
Speaker
And so, um yeah so far. get businesses has to solve that problem. right Right. That's what you do. I'm curious more like what is the approach in in your business specifically in real estate? what What kind of projects do you focus on and how do you go about it?
00:30:55
Speaker
Yeah. So right now we have a three pronged approach, um which sets us apart from any other developer that I've ever met. um And so specifically with a public
Mixed-Income Communities and Supportive Services
00:31:05
Speaker
housing authority. So let's say there's a public housing authority in Las Vegas, Nevada, and they have 4,000 units.
00:31:14
Speaker
And so what we do is we engage with that public housing authority. We talk to them about what we do. um We talk about what properties they have, and we work out a contract,
00:31:26
Speaker
to typically take an existing facility that has humans living in there. The public housing authority will move those people out. We will tear down the facility. We'll rebuild a new facility.
00:31:38
Speaker
But with the new facility, we have childcare facility on site. Mm-hmm. We have an education center on site. We have a business center on site.
00:31:49
Speaker
And then we have staff on site. So we have a nonprofit, Halo Hope Foundation, that provides as an umbrella nonprofit. We grab other nonprofits, bring them in, help them help them get funded.
00:32:01
Speaker
And then that takes our AI tool or will be taking our AI tool. We've just been doing this all on paper um before and now. But it'll take the AI tool that's come out of our years of work of doing this and work with the people on their own personal plan to become whatever it is that they really want to become. But the target is to get somebody from zero dollars in income to fifty thousand dollars a year in income in two years.
00:32:28
Speaker
And it's possible. um It takes a lot of work, but it's possible. And so. the These people in these these homes, now it's new facility, it's mixed income. So there's regular people, market rate people, and then there's ah public housing people who are poor, all in the same for same buildings, the same community.
00:32:49
Speaker
And then there's onsite staff, coaches, mentors, and then childcare that helps them overcome their three generations of being in poverty or 10 generations of poverty, get out of that mindset and learn how to make money and then learn what to do with money and then learn about credit and how to keep their credit and savings and all these things that American schools don't teach because American schools are more focused on trapezoids and triangles than they are about how to be a good human or be a good parent. Same in Europe.
00:33:26
Speaker
until yeah Wow. That's super, super interesting because now you're not just coming in and like, okay, we have a housing problem and that needs to be solved. People can't live in slums.
00:33:38
Speaker
we're gonna solve that, but at the same time, we're gonna we're going to solve a much deeper rooted problem, which is poverty, which is mindset, which is like having guidance, getting people um inspired, empowered and doing that and actually integrating that in the real estate planning and and the construction of it. that's That's brilliant. So I'm also curious, is there an aspect of of green green green infrastructures? how How do you design those spaces?
00:34:08
Speaker
yeah Is there room for that as well? Yes, it's part of our equation. So every facility has solar and battery. And then we've been working with a mesh network internet provider who every router also comes with a little blade server for AI and that helps process AI in there. So now we're taking strain off of data centers and we're building it inside our own facility. So our own facility becomes a data center, data hub.
00:34:39
Speaker
um We've been talking to a group out of Germany that turns um your boiler room where you have your your heating and turns that into a data farm and takes the heat from the data farm and uses that to heat the facility. Oh, I love that.
00:34:59
Speaker
I've seen a greenhouse like that, a Bitcoin mining yeah generator heating a ah greenhouse in winter. Yeah, isn't that crazy? Exactly. Brilliant ideas. Um, and we've just, you know, we've, we've partnered with a ah venture capital firm called Ivy stone capital. They focus on, um, impact investing.
00:35:24
Speaker
And so they have a green plastics. They've got, uh, a company that they invested in that, um, has a microbe that, that actually eats plastic and turns it into, um,
00:35:37
Speaker
you know, natural elements that can then be consumed by the earth health ah healthily. Like we're we're really focused on that ecosystem because when you have, if you can control the community, the homes, you have a bunch of people in there. You have, like, this is how we change, right?
00:35:55
Speaker
When we design the community in a way that that matters for the earth, that matters for the human, the social aspect, um money, all that stuff gets brought in And these are the communities of the future. This is how this should work.
00:36:10
Speaker
um But it's it's got to be done in a way that makes money because if not, we're just going to keep getting the same thing we get, which is crap. Yeah, I agree. Very smart.
00:36:21
Speaker
And then what do you find the when it comes down to the planning side of like how arranging what, like breaking down what was before and then building something new and different and unique?
00:36:33
Speaker
What is the biggest challenge in in that process going through the planning approvals and and actually designing The government. The government's the biggest problem. you know You know, they're- Because it's unfamiliar or there's no laws or they're like, why don't you build more housing and not a business center in an affordable community? Or what what are the roadblocks?
00:36:57
Speaker
There's so many different rules and there's so many different chiefs. So for example, we're working to get this program approved by the housing and urban development, Department of Housing and Urban Development HUD.
00:37:10
Speaker
And for us to get the program approved officially as a pilot program, it's got to go through... three different verticals inside of HUD to be approved by three different deputy assistant secretaries of HUD.
00:37:26
Speaker
So you you end up going through like 20 different people who all have to approve this thing. And if one of them's like, ah, you know, I don't like line two of paragraph three on a page 746 your application,
00:37:43
Speaker
I'm just going to deny it, you know, or this is nice. I'm going to go get coffee. alllan You know, it's just like getting through all the hoops and the red tape to be able to do something that actually matters. This is why it takes people years and years and years to get anything through. And by time they do get it through, it's been so watered down that it's no longer effective.
00:38:07
Speaker
I'm just curious, do you think, maybe a controversial question, but do you think that the Dodge administration with Elon
Capitalism, Bureaucracy, and Reform
00:38:16
Speaker
Musk coming in and and cleaning up the house, do you see or feel that that already has an impact there or is planning departments way too far down the line?
00:38:24
Speaker
like There's a lot of skepticism, but ah making it was things efficient and making sure that like pretty much the whole process of decisions for the government, that could be an AI system that scans your old document and tells you, yeah, this is good, bad, wrong, no.
00:38:41
Speaker
You upload it and you get immediate feedback, you change it, you you you could get an approval. Technically today we could get approvals within minutes with the technology that we have.
00:38:53
Speaker
so Yeah. So when you see any change in that happening, sorry. yeah Yeah. So they they are trying, the Trump administration is trying to cut, cut, cut, cut. cut The problem is, is when you cut, it hurts. It hurts. Yeah.
00:39:08
Speaker
And there's a lot of people who hate Trump because he came in and cut a lot. Doge cut a lot. Elon Musk cut a lot. Elon Musk's theory is cut until things break.
00:39:22
Speaker
And then figure out what broke and then fix that one thing. If it didn't break and you cut it, then you didn't need it. And so a lot of people lost their jobs, thousands of people lost their jobs and that created created a lot of hate.
00:39:36
Speaker
But the answer is, it's like, you're if you ask an organization that's spent 50 years building itself bigger and bigger and bigger and finding reasons to grow, and then you're trying to say, well, you need to cut back It just doesn't go well, especially in the government where they can just sit around and not do anything for another two years. And then the next administration will come in and they'll make everybody happy and they'll hire a bazillion positions that don't need to be hired to do a bunch of things that don't need to get done.
00:40:07
Speaker
the And the more the more people that are in there justifying their position, the less likely you are to get anything done.
00:40:18
Speaker
And so it just becomes mess. And so when I worked at USAID, I loved it. I loved it. The the part of USAID I worked at was very, very small, incredibly effective and efficient.
00:40:29
Speaker
The rest of USAID was just this gigantic monolith of ah people, most of whom were trying to do a good thing. And, you know, it my opinion, my personal opinion, having worked in the government and outside the government,
00:40:44
Speaker
Private sector does it way faster, way more efficient, way more flexible, um and it's repeatable over and over and over again. So if the government would partner with people like us, we could save them trillions of dollars.
00:41:02
Speaker
But they won't or they will, but it'll be on a limited basis because there's 500 different checks and 500 different people have to approve things. And some of those people want don't want to change anything because it risks their job. I agree.
00:41:20
Speaker
i think free market and capitalism is still the best operating system that has been around. Maybe there's better and probably capitalism is not perfect either.
00:41:33
Speaker
it's not. It's still the best we have. Let's work with it and and and fix the flaws because like there's no point to... to getting too deep into regulations and blocking companies. like I've talked to many entrepreneurs, the government is the biggest block in in their growth, which is they can't grow, they can't ah employ more people. That's the reality. like They want to grow, they they know they have a good product, they know they can ah help Yeah.
00:42:04
Speaker
Something to make lives better. But then if the government stands in the way it's, it's, yeah, it's a pity. It's like that needs to be fixed. So it it needs to be fixed. And lot of those laws were made to protect consumers, but they were made 50 years ago. And the reason it was, you know, ah made, made sense 50 years ago, but now it doesn't make sense anymore.
00:42:27
Speaker
But you can't change it because then you need, you know, 1500 page legal document to go through Congress and the Senate and or wherever else, depending on your country. It just becomes so difficult to change archaic laws.
00:42:41
Speaker
um And then when they do try and change archaic laws, there's so much, you know, they're trying to remove protections. They're trying to remove protections from nineteen fifty s era, whatever they don't apply, like let them remove them.
00:42:57
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And then if we move beyond the challenges that we unfortunately can't change ourselves that much, we can talk about it, we can stand up and and we can support people that are making a difference.
00:43:11
Speaker
But beyond those challenges that are, it's hard to change them from today to the tomorrow, what ah other challenges do you encounter it in getting to that intended result of of making affordable housing that is also helping people to become better and businesses.
00:43:29
Speaker
The biggest challenge in affordable housing right now is the cost to develop. And so um outside of the government, the cost, just the sure cost. And so for us, we get subsidized by the government, which makes it worth it, totally worth it. Investors can get a great return.
00:43:46
Speaker
And we can do the buildings and the government just has to issue some bonds or grants and take reduce the cost for us, which is fantastic. But outside of those government contracts, trying to build affordable apartments, ah affordable housing is is a challenge. So we need, there's a lot of new technology, a lot of modular builders, a lot of new things on the market. There's almost too many um It's not been proven at scale. You can build homes that are efficient, effective, environmentally friendly for less money than a regular stick built houses.
00:44:25
Speaker
um I've seen some people do it on a small scale, but they just haven't been able to scale. um And part of the reason they can't scale is because at least in the U S there's no national builders code.
00:44:38
Speaker
So every single municipality, every city, can make you have to jump through different hoops to be able to build your modular building. And that just has made it super frustrating for modular builders um when they have, you know, you got to pass every single person's inspection.
00:45:00
Speaker
You can't just pass one inspection. Oh yeah, that makes sense. And have you thought of like incorporating different income streams, like you already mentioned business centers. do Do you think there's opportunities to add something in those businesses that already generate additional income?
00:45:18
Speaker
Yes. Maybe buildings that people go to work, there's free space that can be used for other things. Like, well, what do you see in that? Because I'm, I'm, I'm a big opponent and in, in, creating diversified real estate, like I'm helping developers to create that.
00:45:32
Speaker
yeah we we like, like an ecosystem, we think like, okay, what other needs are there beyond the housing? Is there, room for for spaces, even for weddings, for like, do you see things in- in Yeah.
00:45:46
Speaker
So each one of these facilities that we're building typically is a mixed use facility also. So we have some retail on site, which also gives people who live there an opportunity to start their own little company, a restaurant or whatever in the buildings that they live in.
00:46:02
Speaker
This only works in cities. It doesn't really work in small towns. And then um we will monetize the data from the the software system, the AI tools, not to harm anybody, but to enable them, enable the system to be self-sufficient and grow. We want it to be free, like Facebook or you know Instagram is free.
00:46:27
Speaker
ah We want the system to be free to people, um but vendors and others will will have to pay um We're also looking at, you know, just this whole person concept, um, and scoring that whole person based off of a lot of different things or education, um, you know, how much time they spend reading, how much time they spend, um,
00:46:51
Speaker
learning how much time they spend working on job skills, how much, you know, their savings habits and and so forth. They get a real full halo score of a full circle of a human versus just the typical credit score that we have here in the States that can be incredibly frustrating and it is particularly harmful for people in poverty who can't seem to get out of a 400 credit score 500 credit score, which means they can never get good debt.
00:47:19
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. Very interesting. So are you, is that like your main occupation in in a regular day or are you occupied with with other development and investment projects?
00:47:32
Speaker
So right now we're mainly, so we kind of have three different arms to the company. ah The real estate piece is the biggest piece. There's lots of moving parts. The AI tool stuff is in development. We're about 60, almost 70%
00:47:49
Speaker
um with all that development. um And I'm not a techie guy. I just see a vision of a future and and have a lot of experience working with people in poverty and helping them get
Call to Action and Closing Thoughts
00:48:02
Speaker
out.
00:48:02
Speaker
And so it's um taking that brainchild putting it into reality is what they're doing. and So that those three things collectively and engaging with political leaders, state level, local level, and then federal level um leaders, that takes up most of my time.
00:48:21
Speaker
Yeah, nice. Very interesting. so But you're very and dedicated to the affordable housing projects and and doing that well. If I can help 10 million people get out of poverty, I will die a very happy man.
00:48:35
Speaker
So housing, healthcare, education, you know jobs, skills, and everything else, like that's it. Yeah, that's amazing. I'm curious from your perspective, you obviously have a lot of years of experience in business.
00:48:54
Speaker
What is like motivated to you the most and what's your biggest driver to keep going in in times where it's difficult? Because this is a podcast about doing good for helping people and and doing great in business. And from my own experience, I know like mindset and determination, dedication then and doing things frequently this is the secret to to success so how do you hold yourself accountable how do you stay on top of things i i'm curious to to learn from you it's it's been a challenge you know trying to make money and impact at the same time is hard and we started out and we did really well and then we we messed up because you know earth projects where we got to focus on impact or
00:49:40
Speaker
We just thought we can do it for less money and it costs a lot more money and you know the project kind of went off the rails. So we've learned a lot over dozens of real estate impact projects.
00:49:52
Speaker
Our system's pretty nailed down. We're introducing the AI system, which is more complexity. So we're glad we got the the real estate piece knocked out. We know how to make money on the real estate piece for our investors.
00:50:06
Speaker
ah Nonprofit piece is all sorted. It's really that new element that we're bringing in. I am so passionate about this cause that, and I have been for years and years and years, there's, I won't say no challenge, but there's there's been tons of challenges and I'm not going to quit.
00:50:28
Speaker
um we We will succeed. We will help millions. I know that. And it just... If I don't do it, nobody else is going to do it. So I have to do it. At least that's how I view it.
00:50:39
Speaker
The government's not going to do it. It's going to require people like you, Matthew, myself, others who are so stinking dedicated to improving the world that that we do it. We have to.
00:50:54
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think it only takes a handful of crazy people that are dedicated enough to make a change that actually make the change. So I think you're on the right track and I really appreciate your work.
00:51:07
Speaker
um Is there anything else you still want to share with the audience that could serve as a motivation or or ah can people that can support people to doing the same of what you're doing?
00:51:20
Speaker
You know, we every one of us, if you're listening to the podcast, you have money. um And the thing that I want people to consider is how do you spend your money? How do you spend your time?
00:51:32
Speaker
Those precious resources. Your family is the most important thing ever. um If you have extra money that you can invest, then you should spend that money or invest that money in a way that your family would be proud of.
00:51:45
Speaker
that would that would lead a legacy. Now and imagine instead of just investing in stock market or just to get a return, what if you can invest in a way that makes a return but also helps other families get out of poverty or helps clean the environment?
00:52:02
Speaker
or helps, you know, do a thing that you really care about. We've watched the generations before us spend their lives chasing dollars and they became machines like Blackstone, Blackrock, where they don't care about humans anymore. They only care about money.
00:52:19
Speaker
And we can be better than that. We can care about more than just money. We can care about the earth. We can care about humanity. We can care about a lot of different things. entrepreneurship, creativity, creation, innovation.
00:52:32
Speaker
You know, the thing is is if you're in a position where you have excess funds and you can invest, then you think about who you are, the type of person you are the things you care about, and then find a way to invest that money in a way that helps ah that makes money and fulfills the cause that you believe in.
00:52:50
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. Very inspiring. And it's exactly true. It's probably not the easy road, but that's what you have to do if you really want to make a change.
00:53:00
Speaker
And yeah, I want to thank you for coming on the show. It's been very inspiring. I've seen a a lot of new ideas popping up in my head of of having impact socially and combining that with having an impact on the environment. So I'm I'm curious to stay connected with you and and start working on some yeah projects and make our hands dirty. Yeah.
00:53:22
Speaker
Maybe even a literal sense. Why not? Why not? And yeah, so and how can people reach out to you if if ah maybe people that want to contribute or investors are listening like, hey, I want to want to help out. How can they best ah get to you?
00:53:37
Speaker
Yeah, best way is just reach out to me on LinkedIn, Samuel Sells, Disruptive Capitalist. You can also send me an email, sam at impactgrowthcap.com. And um yeah, I love talking with people. i love sharing our vision.
00:53:53
Speaker
This will work in other countries. It's not just an American solution. It's a global solution. um And, you know, I'm i'm happy to to partner or work with other people.
00:54:06
Speaker
ah There are not enough of us doing this. There needs to be thousands, if not millions of us doing this, and we will change the world for sure. Nice, I agree. On that note, Sam, thank you very much for coming on the soap show. I really appreciate it and I hope to have you on again.
00:54:23
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much, Matthew.