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Ep. 12: Celine Vadam – Wellness in Hospitality Design
38 Plays6 months ago
What if the spaces we inhabit could do more than just house us—what if they could heal us? Imagine walking into a hotel, not just to rest, but to rejuvenate—with every detail designed to enhance your well-being. Would you book a room in a place that promises to make you leave healthier and more fulfilled than when you arrived?
Many of us seek wellness, longevity, and a deeper connection to our surroundings. But what if there was a set of principles that could guide us toward a healthier, more balanced life, while also transforming how we interact with our environments?
We explore the intersection of hospitality, wellness, and sustainability, and how hotels are transforming into sanctuaries for the body, mind, and spirit. These spaces are not only enhancing the guest experience but also contributing to the well-being of local communities and the environment.
Celine Vadam is a public speaker, Founder and CEO of WE (i) think, a consulting firm specialized in the hospitality industry. She is a close friend and colleague of our previous guest, Sam Erik, and both members of the ‘Hospitality Thinktank’. She has worked with luxury brands like Four Seasons, serves as an expert at Blue Zones Retreat, and co-founded the Hospitality of the Future Think Tank. Céline brings a wealth of experience not only in hotel development but also in creating wellness experiences that impact both the guests and the environment. On top of that, she’s a health coach, yoga teacher, and breathwork facilitator.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/celine-vadam/?originalSubdomain=pt
WE(i) think: https://wei-think.com/
Hospitality ThinkTank: https://hospitalitythinktank.com/
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Dive into the Twelve Laws of Nature and unlock the secrets of harmonizing with our planet at https://www.12lawsofnature.com/.
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Transcript
Creating Wellness Concepts for Hotels
00:00:00
Speaker
The simple answer is um I create wellness concepts for hotels and that goes from the early stages of a hotel project or from the the physical and commercial concept of the hotel all the way to creating a experiences and content and retreat. Tourism, when set up and implemented properly, can be a really good tool for change and improvement in destinations.
Celine's Journey in Tourism and Hospitality
00:01:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Regenerative Design Podcast. Today we have an amazing guest. Her name is Celine Vadam and Celine is a public speaker. She's also the founder and CEO of We, I think. It's ah um um ah an amazing consulting firm that is specialized in the hospitality industry focusing on sustainability and wellness.
00:01:33
Speaker
And she just finished an amazing project with the world's very known luxury company Four Seasons that most people probably know. She's also a hospitality expert at Blue Zone's retreat. She's a board member of hotel Hotels of Tomorrow. She's also the co-founder of Hospitality of the Future Think Tank. And on top of that, she's also a health coach, a yoga teacher and a breathwork facilitator and I really want to start out with saying like a big shout out to so Celine because you are the perfect guest. You're showing the world that you can do something that has a good cause for the world and you're also doing really good in business. So Celine welcome to the show. How are you doing today?
00:02:17
Speaker
Thank you so much Mathieu for having me and I am. I'm doing well, thank you. Yeah, nice. So I want to start out with maybe a rather unconventional question but when you go to a dinner party and everybody is talking and it's like cozy and all of a sudden the room goes silent and somebody looks to you and they say, hey Selene, so what do you actually do ah for a living? How do you answer that question?
00:02:44
Speaker
I say that i in general it depends on the crowd. I would say like ah because some might not understand what I do, but in general like the simple answer is I create wellness concepts for hotels.
00:03:01
Speaker
And that goes from the early stages of our hotel projects, from the the physical and commercial concept of the hotel, all the way to creating experiences and content and retreats.
00:03:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's amazing. So yeah, that is quite well explained because you're your resume is resume is quite impressive, all the things you've already achieved. So tell me, where where did all this start? Were you like born in a hotel or or how did all of this happen?
00:03:35
Speaker
It started because I was really, I've always thought that tourism can be when when set up and implemented properly, can be a really good um tool for change and for like improvement in destinations, um because the tourism brings um brings capital, brings skills. It also has like a really wide, it touches a wide range of businesses in a destination. So I was always being very interested in how you can use tourism for good and to bring
00:04:16
Speaker
um good things into destination and also a way to share the local culture, the local heritage and beauty and really be like a tool for so communication also between between people and getting to know like ah um something something different and different people. That was really when where my my passion for the tourism started. And from there I started, I did my MBA and then I went to, I started working for a consulting firm in London doing a tourism development project, but also hospitality projects. But that's how I saw that in the tourism industry,
00:05:12
Speaker
Hotels are like a mini city and involves so many people, so many different skill sets. um It touches also a lot of people, but both from like employees, guests, and all the all the different professions that collaborate with the hotel. So they have a really big impact on their locations.
00:05:36
Speaker
And then when you start going into like brand levels or you can have an even wider i impact. And I really like the hotel environment. So i I've never worked in a hotel actually, but I've worked with so many hotels from development stages to pre-openings to operations, re ah ah operations renovations,
00:06:02
Speaker
um I talk to so many people and at all level and in all departments of the properties. And yeah, and I was lucky to like make my way. And my last job for a
Integrating Wellness into Hotels
00:06:17
Speaker
company was with Four Seasons. So I was working there in the development team covering the new hotel projects across Europe, Middle East and Africa. And actually I'm super excited to see like a one of my latest projects there that opened in a few weeks ago, the first seasons of Mallorca and Spain. and And then I set up my own company four years ago, ah continuing to work with hospitality and on the development side of hospitality. So the early stages of the project, um like studying the market, the feasibility study, working with the
00:07:01
Speaker
designers on the, like bringing the commercial concepts so they can have something to support their design and not just designing something and say, okay, let's, this looks pretty, but how can that work operationally? Are people going to come and, you know, like all these kinds of things that, um,
00:07:22
Speaker
that ah are really important actually and should be coming first and not second after the design ah and um and then like on a personal level I've always been interested in health and wellness and lifestyle so I like in parallel I was um studying a lot these things and doing my um like energy healing certification, yoga teacher, health coach, breath work. And also with Four Seasons, I was working on the global wellness strategy for the brand. So I was really, I was working on the FNB, like healthy FNB strategy. So I worked with all the chefs and FNB directors and nutritionist dieticians. So I have a sweet spot for
00:08:14
Speaker
FNB. And I work with all the spas and also like designers how to improve the experience to make it wellness throughout the property and not just at the spa. And, and that's how I created my company we think so it started by doing mostly development projects, but slowly because I i was also um like having so much content that I wanted to, to share. I started by, I started, um, working as a way on creating ah ah experiences for operating hotels and creating content and retreats. So that's how we, I started to work with blue zones yeah and, um, I became the.
00:09:05
Speaker
Well, I'm still the the Blue Zones ah brus retreat person. So I created a ah retreat program for Blue Zones based on their their principle longevity principles and then um like collaborat finding hotels to kind of collaborate and host the retreats and delivering the retreats. So I delivered the first two retreats in Costa Rica and in Mexico in June.
00:09:33
Speaker
And the next ones are in Japan and in the US in October, November. And we have like more to come on the pipeline. So that's very exciting. So that's really mixing everything, like even from your health ah background to business expert hospitality or bringing it all together in your work. I love that. And I love the fact that where, why did you start this is because I, and I agree with you that hospitality, ah even restaurants are doing it now. It's more about hotels.
00:10:03
Speaker
Specifically that they can be really an example to the world of like, okay How can we create something where people from overseas or from ah further away? Come to experience something and how can we help to develop the community have a positive impact on the environment? so I think hotels have a can have a ah big responsibility and it totally adds up to the experience that I would love to talk to you more about because I feel like there's a bit of link of the COVID crisis. I don't know if it was a coincidence, but I think the hospitality industry had a big, yeah was struggling because of COVID. And then now it's like, okay, how do we want to differentiate ourselves from an Airbnb? And I think most of this has to
Impact of Environment on Hotel Experience
00:10:50
Speaker
do with the experiences. like can Can you talk a bit more about that? Sure. he so
00:10:57
Speaker
COVID impacting impacted the hospitality industry, not just for like a not just from the guest perspective, but also the employee's perspective. um And now it's more important than ever to yeah work on the experience, and the experience not just for the guests, but also the experience for the employees. you like how like A lot of people after COVID didn't want it to work in the hospitality business anymore because the hours are long, you have shifts, it's very impactful on your on your health. um The salaries are not always great. So like the hospitality industry has to really do something and be creative and make sure that um
00:11:48
Speaker
that they can deliver a good working experience to the employees and that's also translating to the guest experience because a big part of what makes a hotel successful is not just the design and you know like the infrastructures and the services it's also the employees and that's something that especially coming from Four Seasons It was something very important there, you know, like the the golden rule the golden rule, treat people have how you want we would like to be treated and um making sure that the experience is really ah is is really animated by the employees. And and um and yeah, like, and and so in and in terms of experience, I think that now it's a kind of a word that goes, you know, like,
00:12:45
Speaker
you know you can It's kind of overused sometimes. like um But I think that for me, like ensuring a good experience means making sure that the the guest is leaving the property um like happier and healthier and more relaxed. and in a better state, that's when it came. So I like from a one less perspective, and I think a chance who wants to really be into the one less space, like, like truly, meaningfully be in the one less space, I think that should be the objective. Yeah, I see. I agree with that. And how much do you think that the environment has an impact on this experience?
00:13:36
Speaker
Well, the environment kind of creates the container for the experience. so like ah i think And especially, you know like there are so many studies showing the how all our senses are actually um triggered and very reactive to different stimulus. So like um smell is important and its it's like the smell is linked to memories, the same as the the noises or like the music that you can put or the the colors and how the colors impact people's mood and like the the physical touch and the material you you're using. So there are so many ways to create
00:14:25
Speaker
an intimate relationship with guests through designing an environment that um like touches on all these different senses that put together we make the guests you know like remember and like every time best smell um andest they they remember of being in this really nice ah room and sharing like a nice time with their family. or you know like All these senses are associated to to memories. And then
Challenges in Wellness Integration
00:15:01
Speaker
once you're able to really create memories with the guest, then it's really like a win for you because that's the ah best PR and the best thing that
00:15:14
Speaker
and the best way for guests to remember your hotel forever. Yeah, I agree, like the whole four senses or even maybe a fifth sense that is also triggered. um So yeah, that's that's really cool. Now, what do you see from your experience? What do you see as the biggest challenges that new developments in the hotel industry are are facing? what What do you think is like the top three?
00:15:43
Speaker
Well, first is a lack of originality. Like there's a lot of copy pasting, especially in the wellness field, you know, like because, because something works somewhere, you just like do it. And you look, when you look at spazza, they all have the basic things, you know, like sonaha, mam, takruzi. And so it's getting a bit boring, um especially as there's so much out there to really create,
00:16:12
Speaker
first to create things that are very unique and also to really connect with the local local wisdom, local culture. And by digging a little bit more onto the local you know local lifestyle and local um like wellness treasures, you can really create something like very yeah very very unique and different than everybody what everybody's doing. So I think, yeah, the lack of originality is a big one. um
00:16:51
Speaker
Then maybe like a like um misconception of what wellness is and like a lack of definition, you know, like the range of wellness is so wide that you can go from something very light and, you know, like just having this power with pampering services, all the way to being like very hardcore medical and tracking and testing and all that stuff. But there's so much in between.
00:17:26
Speaker
and and there and and And so like ah sometimes like a lot of time like a investors or like developers, they don't know what they're doing ah from the wellness perspective. So they just put a bunch of things together and I yeah like ice baths are cool. So let's just put an ice bath. And this is yeah, this is very trendy. Let's put that, but they don't really know how to put like a holistic experience that will be transformative and that will be really like effective together. And so that's that's how, well, that's where I come in, I guess, to really like help do that and really have something. And also, you know, like ah there's this, um this idea that all these medical clinics are big money makers. So everyone wants to do like a,
00:18:24
Speaker
clinic library or shower wellness clinic. And, but it's really, it's really not true. And there's also, cause there's a lot of, um a lot of things to take into consideration when going into that space. Like it's clean. These are clinics. They are not hotels and there are clinics with beds and not hotels with, um,
00:18:48
Speaker
like testing rooms. So the fact that this is their that their concept starts as a clinic, you have a lot of things involved that you don't have normally no child, the, the doctors, the all the liabilities, the the the type of people you this type of stuff you need to have. like There are so many things to take into consideration and that's not for everyone. So being clear on like having a strong concept that will also last the taste of of time and that will still be relevant and that's very also like ah authentic is important. so And that's goal that's actually the second step from you know like being like all all the same.
00:19:38
Speaker
like lack of creativity, so that would be like having like a strong concept. And and then the third point I would say, I still link to that, but um like making sure that you that's you're building the the ah a place that is right for what you want to do, where you are,
00:20:05
Speaker
um for taking into account also what you want to a achieve. um What are your values and your vision? you know like ah um If you're into sustainability and you like how can you integrate and translate all the values that you want into your your project and not going much. Sometimes developers got a bit
00:20:36
Speaker
um scared or dole so they try to go too quick. And instead of first having a strong concept, they start thinking, what brand can I bring in? ah What can I do to have the to have that brand or, but it's not necessarily relevant for that specific location or like, what's the best use of these um of this location?
00:21:07
Speaker
Yeah, nice.
Adapting Hotel Design to Future Needs
00:21:08
Speaker
And then how do you navigate through all of that? Like you're there from the beginning phase, then you have the investors that want probably the fastest return. Probably they also have vision, but how do you juggle all the different stakeholders in such projects? In general, I try what I involved as soon as possible.
00:21:33
Speaker
and and the And it's actually saving time and money for ah investors because instead of having to redo the design like 50 times with different scenarios, well, you've saving money on designer costs because you come already with an idea of what you want and what makes sense for this location. So then like they can draw from there instead of drawing for Okay, we have that much space. What can we put on that much space? Would you take it from what would be like a good viable and interesting project for this land? So it's a lot of talking and education.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah, so you're like directing people into bringing more reality in it as well. Then also how do you overcome like we're living in a world where things are changing super fast?
00:22:31
Speaker
And I think that still people that dare to think long term is still very important. But at the same time, do you see there is a need to be like flexible in the design and the use into um how we're going to experience hotels in five, 10, 20 years, like leaving some flexibility in the development or is that difficult to do?
00:22:56
Speaker
Well, from a wellness perspective, the basics for like to live a like healthy and long life are quite universal and quite simple. Now you need to move every day to sleep well, to eat well, and to socialize. So I guess when you start from these principles, you can't go wrong by, um you know, creating spaces that makes people walk, you know, like in a nice setup.
00:23:26
Speaker
um like maybe you have an elevator but if your staircase is super cool has like some art exhibition or something you would you would invite people to use those stairs instead of the elevator nice so like creating places to socialize creating like a sleep environment that's really like a really restorative and really encourages like a good nice tip. So if you start by that, then the rest I think is more like it can be changed and it doesn't cost too much to change it. If you need to change the color of the walls or if you there's a new, I don't know, machine that's really cool that you want to change for for the latest version. So then it's more like um
00:24:17
Speaker
adapting like that. But there there was a time like a where in terms of development, the things that matter was the room size. Like what's my the square meters of my rooms? What are the competitors doing? Oh, the competitors have 24 square meters rooms.
00:24:37
Speaker
um So I need to have at least 24 square meters or do maybe 26 to have a competitive advantage. But really, guests don't really look at that when they book somewhere. They look at the the the gym to make sure they can continue their workout in a nice environment. like no one's want No one wants to um exercise in the basement with no windows and like ah two machines that are dated from the 60s.
00:25:08
Speaker
So like having already like playing, I think it's the important part is really the space planning. um And like one thing in London, for example, um the luxury market initially in London didn't have a swimming pool. But then it became a big thing. And kind of like, a you know, like part of being ah luxury hotel to have a swimming pool. So now like in the past, I don't know, i like five years, you' you've seen like with new entrants coming in the market who put already a swimming pool, you've seen a lot of planning applications in existing like London landmark hotels to create like a swimming pool in the basement, for example, um or sometimes in ah
00:26:00
Speaker
in the in the rooftop. So like to add that space that wasn't really part of the luxury of the ring before. And that are now like a kind of, ah you know, like an important tick box for any luxury hotel. So, so yeah, there are things that will ah that will change and there are things that will ah there's probably going to be like something we we've never heard about
Applying Blue Zones Principles in Hospitality
00:26:27
Speaker
yet. And like in 10 years, iss it's gonna be the must-have in all hotels. But it hasn't been invented yet, so we never know. But at least, um yeah, like planning spaces for fostering these like four important health killers is a good start.
00:26:50
Speaker
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00:27:15
Speaker
yeah I think it's it makes your business or your hotel way more long-term and future-proof if you can start from the human experience, the health experience, the environment, everything around it. There's no way in the world that this will change in the next 100 years, I would say. like Everybody still would like to go Experience something outside have some very healthy foods do like things that improve your health It's already a trend like more and more I would say in the last 50 years people are becoming more conscious about their health So it's it's not going to stop it will only increase so I think it's a great approach to start from from that
00:27:58
Speaker
Now, also part of the blue zones of the world, like, okay, we have the blue zones retreat, but generally what the blue zones are is that they have certain things that kind of happens everywhere in the world. Can you help us and and refresh our minds what like the key things are for for blue zones?
00:28:20
Speaker
Yeah, so blue zones are clusters in the world where there's a high concentration of centenarians. And the five original blue zones were found in Okinawa in Japan, on the island of Ikaria in Greece, the island of Sardinia in Italy, the Nikoya Peninsula in Costa Rica, and Loma Linda, which is a an area in California and in the US.
00:28:49
Speaker
And from the study of these areas, there are like nine principles that been found. So even though they were scattered around the world, they had different um geographical realities and different um like different activities that they were doing and things like that, different cultural and cultural differences. They all like have these principles in common and they are um they are moving naturally every day. So they don't go to the they don't necessarily go to the gym, but they are active throughout the day. They go to they have a a sense of belonging
00:29:34
Speaker
So belonging to their community, belonging to a certain faith. they So this is just the social aspect. um They put their loved ones first, so they have these intergenerational families, or they make sure that they allocate time to spend with their friends and their families. They have a sense of purpose, so when they wake up in the morning,
00:30:01
Speaker
um the They have a reason to get up in the morning that's driving that' driving them. They downshift. So in our two today's world, when it's always go, go, go, you need to be productive. um They know that you can't be productive if you, you can't you can drink from an empty cup. So you need to find time to really like chill and slow down.
00:30:31
Speaker
um There's one principle around eating wisely. and and that's um you know like that's they they They are mainly plant-based and they eat a lot of vegetables and fruits and beans.
00:30:52
Speaker
There's the principle of the 80% rule. So they eat, they they don't eat until they're full and can't eat anymore. So they have like, you know, like more um like more like not restricted, but they are more, they they are more mindful. They have a more mindful way of eating. So they know when, okay, they had enough instead of overeating. yeah um There's the wine at five. So it's not just about the wine, but it's also about this idea of gathering with friends and family at the end of the day to unwind.
00:31:38
Speaker
And then there's a missing one. Oh yeah, I think the right outlook. So this is this is about um yeah like having the the the right outlook to do so things that are the the things that you want to do to do throughout your day.
00:32:04
Speaker
Oh, like having a plan. Oh, sorry. no Yeah. And having the right tribe. So having that, the ah like be having like a support system, you know, a strong support system of people who are there for you, who you don't need to have like 500, it's better to have like two really good friends you can count on than two million spot awards. Yeah, that's definitely true. Yeah.
00:32:34
Speaker
And so all these principles both in your work with the BlueZone retreats and then with the other consulting work that you do, you try and integrate that or is that ah is that a guiding principle and in the designing of the hotel or designing in a sense of putting everything together? Yeah, I would say so because in the well for the BlueZone retreats for sure, because the BlueZone retreats content has been built upon these principles. And the idea with the retreat is to give like a different um to give like a half coaching style approach to these principles. And you really like during the retreat to make people think about each principles and how they can
00:33:22
Speaker
implement them into their lives, how it means to them. um And it's funny because some of the principles are, well, these principles are really simple. But when you start to take the time to really focus on each of them, you can see that some triggers, certain emotions or certain um things, you know, like downshifting, for example, um follow for a lot of people, it's linked to, oh, but if I downshift, um I'm not productive anymore. And I'm like, people are gonna just say, I'm lazy. or So there's a lot of um of things that can be associated with principles like that, ah that are, you know, parent simple, but when you really start digging into them,
00:34:11
Speaker
can be more um powerful that they can look like. yeah And then in the projects I do, yeah, it's um like the the the good thing about the thing I like about the Blue Zones principle is that they are they are effective, they are really effective. So they are strong enough to really be meaningful and impactful but at the same time they are very simple and can take different shapes and forms so you can really implement them in different um and different perspective and and and I think it's very good to be used as like a base you know like this is the
00:34:56
Speaker
minimum, like the base structure that you need to put in place. And then from there, you can expand and maybe, um I don't know, the owner really is really into Ayurveda and he wants to create some specific Ayurveda team around the hotel and everything will be around the Ayurveda. So then you can build on the the basic principles um and and do something that's really relevant for the location, the market, the owner's vision, um what would be also something unique in in in this place.
00:35:38
Speaker
Yeah, I see that does make a lot of sense. Because yeah, you have the, it and this reminds me of a quote that I came across a couple of years ago. It's like a lot of things in life are simple, but they're not easy. So it's like, yeah, it's clear the principles, but then how to implement something else. So how do you actually in in the this, let's say in in the design process of a whole hotel, both the architecture and the surrounding, how do you make sure that in this whole process that can take several years before completing that you keep your vision aligned because in in the reality often what happens is like the budget is decreasing or there's been extra costs and by the time you get to the the landscape or the environment a lot of like cuts have to be made. Is that something that you have come across or is there ways to overcome that?
00:36:36
Speaker
um I think there are ways to overcome that because the these principles are not things that necessarily like big investment, you know, like moving naturally, it can be creating walking trails or, um you know, like having some if you don't have the space on property to create working trails, having like a like a map for people to do to do some work. so So I think there's always a way around. And the way to maintain the vision is to really have like a strong concept at the beginning, making sure like what are your non-negotiable, what you're trying to achieve. And then if you need to go with a material that is a bit cheaper than what we had in mind
00:37:26
Speaker
at the beginning, um it's fine because it doesn't impact the essence and the vision of the of the of the overall overall concept. So a strong concept from beginning is important and then finding a way to do that and also like work with but best case scenarios, medium and and worst case scenarios to like mitigate that. or And then not not having the the design concept lead the way. I think the commercial concept should lead the way for the design and not the other way around because that's where you compromise on the experience.
Importance of Strong Design Concepts in Hotels
00:38:06
Speaker
Oh yeah, that's right. Interesting. The design need to serve the commercial concept and not the commercial concept needs to be adapted to
00:38:16
Speaker
whatever is being designed. like that's a like That's the formula for problems. exhaust its to ninety s in service of like It's creating this container for this concept to work. Yeah, I agree. Even in my work, I always like I spent at least 30% of my project on analyzing, understanding the client. What do you want to achieve? What's the vision? Are you sure about your vision? Like before I start designing, I really need to know everything. I tell also the people that I'm teaching ah how to design their own garden. You have to think like Sherlock Holmes, like also and understand your environment, walk your neighborhood, talk to people, like gather as much information before even touching a pen on on the paper.
00:39:04
Speaker
I think that that is linked to that as well. So is it a challenge from your perspective working with designers, architects, even landscape architects that often they want to like put their ID out there or yeah is is that something that is hard to take care of? No, I don't think it's hard and it's funny because The last few projects I've done, um I actually or ah actually came from architects. So they were working with some owner who wanted to do a wellness wellness concept. And they asked me to come in to do this initial initial concept. And then we were working together on the on the design and me like giving some input on what would be like
00:39:56
Speaker
like useful for the experience or you know, some i ideas and and it actually I guess it it made their job easier because instead of starting from a blank page, they have ah they had at least some guidelines um that that that we could work work or work with.
00:40:16
Speaker
So it wasn't it's not about ah creating some strict proxies that they need to fit in, but it's more like giving them some um some guidelines um that at the end kind of, yeah, to that's what we're doing as well.
00:40:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's your your role in this whole process is actually key because what you're doing is you're you're both looking at the reality of the financial aspect. You understand what the investors want, but then you're also there to say like, okay, this is kind of a trend, but it may not last. We have to focus on the health, the wellness, the experience of the people. And from all of that gathering, you give that to the designers and or you you already put it into a concept so then for the designer it becomes easier to work with all the information that you've already done because oftentimes for architects and yeah even again landscape architects it's sometimes hard to work with investors immediately because
00:41:22
Speaker
they have a certain vision, but they have no clue about the reality of of the project, the numbers, all these things. So yeah, I think it's it's really important and that's part of the success of your business, I think. who Yeah, it's like coordinating a bit everybody's opinion and everybody's idea and seeing what's best for the project. yeah And then also having that sense of of being more agile, meaning like
00:41:54
Speaker
Okay, we have a concept, we're going to build it, but maybe as we start building the surrounding in four years, we might still adapt to the planting or still make some changes to to even still improve the the project. Is that something that you you have experience with, like along the development itself, still like adapting to the to the needs that are are there at the moment?
00:42:20
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you always have to, you know, like readjust along the way. And so, um so yeah, like that's, that's also it. I think it serves those skills, you know, like when you do hotel operations, it's to what point do you continue?
00:42:38
Speaker
with something, you know, like, um you know, analyzing what something is working, but also analyzing what something is not working. And when it's time to, to change and like why it's not working, sometimes it's just a small detail that make that the thing doesn't work. Sometimes it's, and then sometimes it doesn't even have anything to do with the design. Like sometimes it's just like an operational issue um or so like a communication or marketing.
00:43:08
Speaker
um And sometimes, yeah, it it requires a bit ah bit more. like ah You see it, especially, I think, with F&B concepts, where you have a restaurant concept that, again, in the F and&B world, there's a lot of copy-pasting, too. And thinking that um like that's the thing I saw a lot with sushi restaurants, because sushi restaurants work, like now we think they work everywhere. and um And so like you have these restaurants that are completely not aligned with the rest of the story story of the hotel, and they don't work. And ah and then after a while, the you know like the the concept needs to be changed. You have something that's more in line with um if the the property.
00:44:03
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I see. Now that's interesting too. thank you yeah You want to do certain things but it doesn't always work and then how are you going to adapt and still make it work along the line, right? That's why again, you know its it's important to have like a strong concept and vision at the beginning because then you can avoid these kind of things. you know like Sometimes you go to a chest, there are really they're really pretty but they ah they seem something is off because nothing works together and it's like going in the building with like things that are completely separate and yeah and it doesn't work so that because you had like one person in charge of the FNB, one person in charge of the spa, one person in charge of the rooms, one person you in charge of the
00:44:58
Speaker
like the common areas and then like they had different, they just put it together and it seems like a patchwork of things put together instead of a really like smooth and integrated offer.
00:45:15
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. it For the like the holistic experience, it's it's it' super important to put everything together. And then yeah before we start wrapping up, I would still like to talk about the sustainability aspect of the hotel industry and how like we started with this, like how hotels can be an example for other people and how visitors can actually learn something about the environment, for example. like how How do you see this that this is important for the future? like When you build a new hotel, what do you do with all the surrounding? And and how does that impact the the experience of the visitors along the line?
00:45:53
Speaker
I think there are so many ways to work with the surroundings, the landscaping, and treating the landscaping not just as something there to be pretty, but something there. like That can be such a cool educational tool as well. you know like There are so many um medicine plants, or like fruit trees, or vegetable trees. like plants or that you can use that look pretty and then that that can also like provide food or provide herbs to make some infusions in the evening or like be used for spa treatments or you can really use the landscaping to you have the landscaping coming into the experience and being really like an integrated part of it and not just like a nice to have
00:46:53
Speaker
garden. No, not like just ticking the box. We have some green at the end of and then put a bunch of plants in. I agree. I think it's a huge opportunity and again for the, and I talked about it with our dear friend Sam Eric, like how can hotels of the future differentiate themselves to the ones that already exist? And then it's really about, okay, you How do you enter even a hotel? You always enter through the landscape, usually when it's and it's more on on the countryside. So that that first experience is very important, I think. And then on top of that, like imagine going to a hotel and learning about gardening, taking some ideas home, or learning about permaculture, and having like, this is value creation. If if a hotel can um create that,
00:47:43
Speaker
they will tell it to friends and family and like, hey, I went to a hotel, but ah I didn't just like swim in the pool, I learned about gardening and and and about sustainability, even the whole water system of the hotel that is completely reusing the water, they explained it or some parts of it you can see and visit. I think that in that sense, the hotel in the street can or is becoming an example to the world. yeah And I think it can also help with seasonality because the nature is changing all the time through the seasons. So it gives guests the opportunity to see the hotel through different season and it will be completely different in the summer than in autumn, than in winter and spring. So it can also like be used to increase loyalty and returning guests because we love their
00:48:38
Speaker
spring experience, but they've heard that during autumn, it's completely different, the colors are different, the the vegetables are different, the complete ah atmosphere is different, so it's also like a, I think it can also be used to really create these returning guests coming to see the hotel throughout the different seasons.
00:49:06
Speaker
Yeah, i didn't even talk um I didn't even think about that. That's genius. It can be a really good way of attracting people to come back. Because oftentimes people go just once to a hotel. But if already in the whole explanation is like, oh, we're doing our cherry harvest in July next year, people will be like, maybe I want to go and see that. Or ah all these things can be really triggering to have reoccurring clients Yeah, nice. Well, Celine, I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you very much for all your valuable information. This is ah another great addition to the list of people we've had. We've had farmers on, we had other architects and the other people even in the hospitality business and you added a new complete angle of how you are creating a better world for the future. So yeah, thank you for doing that and thank you for ah being on the show here.
00:50:02
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. and yeah I enjoyed our conversation too and I hope that your listeners will enjoy it too. Yes, thank you.