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Ep. 20: Alexander Saverys - Environmental Impact and Decarbonization in Maritime Innovation
47 Plays4 months ago
“The human being has shown that we can solve big environmental problems. And one of the drivers on the CO2 and decarbonization is I truly believe that human innovation, human energy to solve issues can lead to good solutions.”
Are the high seas the key to solving our planet’s environmental crisis?
As the world searches for sustainable solutions to combat climate change, few industries face the same challenges—and opportunities—as maritime shipping. The shipping sector has long been a cornerstone of global commerce, but its environmental impact is undeniable. What if the ships that connect the world could also lead the charge toward a greener, cleaner future?
Explore the transformative potential of hydrogen and ammonia as alternative fuels, the regulatory hurdles shaping the industry, and the groundbreaking innovations that could redefine maritime shipping. From cutting-edge technology to ambitious sustainability goals, learn about these bold ideas that could change the way we move goods across the globe.
Our guest, Alexander Saverys, CEO of CMB Tech, brings a unique perspective to this critical issue. With a family legacy in shipbuilding dating back to 1829, Alexander merges deep tradition with forward-thinking innovation. Under his leadership, CMB Tech is driving the decarbonization of shipping operations, positioning the company—and the industry—as leaders in the fight against climate change.
Alexander Saverys: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-saverys-586bb942/
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Transcript
Introduction to CMB Tech's Decarbonization Strategy
00:00:00
Speaker
We need to turn away from diesel to hydrogen and ammonia. You can't power ships with batteries, at least not for all your energy needs. So hydrogen and ammonia are two very important molecules, in our view, for the next three decades to decarbonize our business. Over the last 10 years we've developed a technology to power our ships with hydrogen and ammonia.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Regenerative Design Podcast. I'm your host Mathieu Mahes and in this show I interview the leading authorities in the world of regenerative practices. People who do good and do well. Are you a person that cares about your environment and our planet? Are you a person that wants to leave the planet to our children to be something that we can be truly proud of?
00:00:47
Speaker
something to enjoy for many generations to come. But are you also a person that believes we can do all of this and do good in business? Well, I have really good news for you. You're here listening to the podcast that is all about making our planet a better place and making your business more successful. Enjoy the show.
Alexander Savaris on Maritime Decarbonization
00:01:13
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Regenerative Design Podcast. Today we have a very special guest. His name is Alexander Savaris. He is the CEO of CMB Tech, a global company that has a diversified, that is working in the maritime business with a diversified services ranging from designing ships to building ships, to operating ships on a global scale. um He's been getting a lot of attention lately because he is actually on a mission to decarbonize the transportation system, more specifically the Maritim, the sea shipping um industry. So I'm very excited to to talk about that today. Alexander, welcome
CMB Tech's Strategic Shift from Coal
00:01:59
Speaker
to the show. How are you doing today? ah Very well. Thank you very much for having me, Mathieu. Yeah, it's it's an honor to have you on the show. We're here in your headquarters. It's ah a home game for you. So to start off, I really want to understand more, like, where did all of this begin? Was it for you as a child or already clear that you're going to work in this industry? You obviously have a long, or your family has a long history in the married team industry. I researched it, and it dates back to 1829.
00:02:28
Speaker
your grant grant grandfather was already building ships so that's that's beautiful to see that you have such a long heritage but for you personally was it always clear that you're gonna get into this industry? No it was not clear um that we were destined to work in the industry but I think it grows into you when you hear your ah your parents your uncles ah talk about the business logically you take interest ah you see what is happening and it's a fascinating industry it's very diverse it's very international um So ah very early on I was attracted to it and I actually started outside of the family group first with a small container shipping company and then joined the company ah when I was 35 years old.
00:03:10
Speaker
Well, that's interesting. And you started also with buildings, ships that were used to ah support the offshore wind mills and those ships were already running on hydrogen. Can you talk a bit more about how that was developed? and Well, no no, I didn't start with that. I started my career with the idea of moving goods from the road to the sea.
00:03:35
Speaker
So, decarbonization, I would say, at that point was limiting the CO2 emissions per tons transported per mile. ah That is what we did between 2004 and 2014. In 2014, as a group, um we were looking at what our strategy should be for the next decades.
Drivers of Sustainable Maritime Solutions
00:03:53
Speaker
yeah And we defined clearly that there were two things we needed to do. one we could not depend solely on the transportation of coal. Back in 2014, a big chunk of our turnover was transporting coal. And we said, look, if we are only going to depend on that kind of transportation, we will run the risk of having a stranded business because if the coal transportation goes down and you have ships that can only transport coal, obviously your company will have an issue. So ah diversifying away from coal
00:04:23
Speaker
was ah one key strategic pillar that we identified back in 2014. The second is we clearly believed and still believe that offering a green product to our customer, so a ship that emits less CO2, will eventually be something that all our customers will want. And so we decided to look into what kind of low carbon solutions for the maritime industry were available and how we could implement it.
00:04:53
Speaker
you are referring to the offshore wind industry that only came later in our history, that only came in 2020, when based on the initial pioneering projects we did in 2016, 17 and 18, we managed to design a ship that was indeed running on hydrogen to support the offshore wind parks.
00:05:12
Speaker
So even before you started with the hydrogen, we can talk about it more. It was already very important for you to work on ways to reduce the impact or the the general emissions of transportation system on a global scale, right? So yeahp that's where everything started.
00:05:31
Speaker
Yeah, and and the reasons are ah pretty simple. There's business reasons. um First and foremost, regulation is becoming more and more stringent in our industry. That is a process that started, let's say, in 2005-2006. Emissions were starting to become regulated, first on sulfur.
Human Capacity to Address Environmental Issues
00:05:50
Speaker
Then our noxious and then on co2 and obviously we are operating in a world which is regulated So we need to comply if you don't comply you have to pay heavy penalties So that's the first business reason for wanting to decarbonize ah second ah Business reason is that public opinion you and me? ah Want to have sustainable goods yeah and goods that are also sustainably transported. Yeah So public opinion and hence politics are also putting a lot of pressure not only on us but also on my customers to offer a green product. and There's of course a private reason which is apart from the business that I believe that indeed ah investing in sustainable assets, ah making sure that the planets that we inherited from our parents when we give it back to our children is a better planet. That's a private driver that I have.
00:06:41
Speaker
But private drivers are nice. If you can't make money with it, exactly you will never be able to be successful. So there are very clear business reasons why we are investing in de-competization. Yeah, I think that's a very important aspect that is part of the podcast showing like, okay, you want to do something good for the environment. You can do it from an ethical standpoint and it's great, but it's going to be difficult to turn it into a business. So it's important to have both aspects And I think that's what true sustainability is. ah right so But talk about a bit more about your personal reasons. like Is it something that you grew up with, thinking like, okay, we have this planet and we have to protect it? Did you see some evidences when you were younger? or'm i'm ah I'm a child of the the ozone layer that was being depleted. Back in the 80s, when I was at school, oh yeah ah you know we were bombarded with the negative news about the ozone layer. and
00:07:35
Speaker
you know, what's a big impact it had on the South Pole, the North Pole, on our health, and we solved that problem. I think the human being has shown that we can solve big environmental problems. oh yeah And um
Developing Countries and Sustainable Growth
00:07:50
Speaker
you know one of the drivers on the CO2 and the decarbonization is I truly believe that human innovation,
00:07:57
Speaker
and you know human energy ah to solve issues can lead to good solutions. oh yeah And we are in the midst of this process now. The task that we have upon us is, I would say, 1,000 times bigger than the hole in the ozone layer back in the 80s. But I do believe that we also have a thousand times more tools at our disposal. And why do you think it's thousand times more? Is it because of all the climatological? Well, I mean, yeah look look when I was born, there were 4 billion people on the planet. Today, there's 8 billion people on the planet.
00:08:31
Speaker
in During my lifetime, the total amount of CO2 emissions have skyrocketed ah for good reason. It has created prosperity. exactly Thanks to fossil fuels, a lot of people have come out of poverty. exactly and From a percentage point of view, there's never been as few poor people today. There's still a lot of poor people in absolute terms, but in terms of percentage of people living on this planet,
00:08:55
Speaker
The issue, of course, is if we continue down this path, we will have catastrophic consequences. ah So the task is much, much bigger, I would say, because we are many more people on this planet, because we have emitted so much more CO2 than back in the 80s and the 70s when we were looking at the ozone layer issue. yep But as I just said, I also think that we have tools at our disposal that are much more powerful yeah than what they used to be 40 years ago.
00:09:21
Speaker
I think that looking into that, it's important to also look at developing countries that are going through or they are finalizing their industrial revolution. And there's ways that we could say like, hey, they should stop using coal and they should stop doing that. But I think it has to go through the same evolution. They're just doing it faster. So I think it's important to look at where we come from in the standpoint of using the fossil fuels to create prosperity and then now move away from it. It's a process that kind of seems inevitable or what's your take on on that when it comes down to the developing countries that are... Well, I think first and there's a couple of things I don't agree with. um I don't agree that we should tell developing nations that they cannot develop and they cannot use fossil
Renewable Energy Projects in Namibia
00:10:11
Speaker
fuels. Quite frankly, ah who are we to tell them we did it ourselves? Yes, exactly. Secondly, I don't agree that they are going through the same industrial revolution as we did. I think they are skipping phases. It's a faster process. Of course. I mean, look, ah simple things like telephone cables not needed anymore no because there's ah there's wireless communication possible.
00:10:34
Speaker
ah Things like having all electrical cables everywhere in a country. Is that needed? No. You can decentralize your energy production. You can store your energy thanks to renewable processes, batteries and all the new technologies that are there. I think in a way developing nations have the advantage of having technology at hand that will make their economic growth much more efficient and of course much less carbon intensive.
00:10:58
Speaker
But this being said, I don't think we can tell them they cannot use oil or coal or gas, ah all these fossil fuels. I think what we need to do is partner up with developing nations and see how we can decarbonize our industry by using products that they have, know how that they have.
00:11:17
Speaker
and at the same time transfer the know-how we have to accelerate their economic growth. And that's exactly what we are trying to do at a small scale ah in Namibia and Africa, ah where we want to produce the molecules of the future and at the same time accelerate the economic growth in that country. Nice. Can you talk a bit more about that project? Look, we're a shipping company. We operate 200 ships. We need to turn away from diesel to hydrogen and ammonia. You can't power ships with batteries, at least not for all your energy needs. So hydrogen and ammonia are two very important molecules, in our view, for the next three decades to decarbonize our business.
00:11:59
Speaker
Over the last 10 years, we've developed a technology to power our ships with hydrogen and ammonia. We use combustion engine technology, so very old technologies like diesel engines, petrol engines, but instead of burning diesel, we burn hydrogen or ammonia. and Hydrogen for small ships when the range is short and we can refuel frequently. Hydrogen has many advantages. It's carbon free, but it takes a little space, so we need to refuel frequently. And when we need to sail for longer distances, then we go to ammonia. Ammonia has a disadvantage that it's a toxic product. But in a ship which is a very professional environment, we are used to to handling toxic products. Our crew is trained for that. So that is not a problem. And then we can sail much longer distances. And ammonia in that sense is also sustainable because you can, with renewable energy, you can take it from the atmosphere and use it as ah as a fuel. is that So how do you produce hydrogen?
00:12:49
Speaker
You basically take water, desalinated seawater for instance, yeah clean electricity. You combine both in what we call an electrolyzer and you cut the water molecule into hydrogen and oxygen. And then that is truly sustainable ah energy that you can use.
00:13:06
Speaker
Ammonia, you do exactly the same, but you will combine your hydrogen molecule with nitrogen from the air. What we breathe 78% is nitrogen. So with an air separator, it's very easy to take nitrogen out. You combine these two molecules, you make NH3, which is ammonia. If you burn ammonia, you don't emit any CO2. No, because it was previously just in the atmosphere and re like it's cycling, right? It's seawater, sunlight, wind and nitrogen from the air. no That's basically what you use to make a green ammonia. Now, the technology is there.
00:13:39
Speaker
We also know how to make these molecules, but the biggest bottleneck we have in our industry is nobody is really producing these molecules yet. Why? Because of the classical cash 22, people that want to produce it say, I don't have any demand. People that have the technology that burns it say, where are the molecules? So we're running around in circles. So that's why we decided as a company to select one area in the world.
00:14:04
Speaker
where there's abundant renewable energy and Namibia is one of these countries. There's a lot of sunlight, a lot of wind. Access to water, so desalinated sea water. We're a shipping company so we wanted to have access to the sea so that we could trade in and out so our ships could come and collect these molecules for their own usage or to export the molecules.
Regulatory Challenges: Europe vs Africa
00:14:24
Speaker
um And that's why we got into Namibia, basically to break this chicken or the egg discussion yeah of we have the technology, we have the ships that can be green, but we don't have the fuels. And it's an important harbor in the world ah trade, Namibia? No, and my Namibian friends will not like ah to hear this, but I think they know. Walvis Bay, which is the the really the only big commercial port in Namibia is a small port. But this being said, it's very well located. yes So even though it's relatively small today, and and you know mind you, it is a very well-developed port, but it's it's of course much smaller than Antwerp or Rotterdam. But it has a fantastic potential to develop um not only into a container hub, a commodities trading hub, but also into a hub where ships will come
00:15:12
Speaker
to basically refuel green molecules. Yeah, I think that's a great way of looking at it. And Africa is developing fast. So I think yeah there's a lot of potential and in that sense. is How is the development of that? Is it like you're starting from scratch? You're working with engineers? it's like Or is all the technology readily available and just putting it in place? No, I mean, it's it's an end-to-end story. you You still need to develop the technology ah to develop the ships on hydrogen and ammonia, to develop the electrolyzers to produce hydrogen, ah to develop the ammonia factory. So that technology needs to be developed both in Africa and also here in ah in Europe. ye You need to, um of course, secure a regulatory framework. This is all new. This is where solar panels and batteries were 40 years ago.
00:15:59
Speaker
So, this is kind of ground zero. You need you need to rewrite a lot of regulations and and and ah basically, with in in dialogue with politicians, try to figure out a framework. um And then, of course, you have the added disadvantage in Africa that these countries don't have money to support these projects. They need to find money elsewhere from the European Union, from the United States or elsewhere.
00:16:24
Speaker
um But what they do have is a very clear vision and a lot of positive energy, a new generation of politicians and entrepreneurs there that ah indeed want to create ah added value. And I think the lack of money is compensated by a vision, a drive, and a lot of positive belief that this indeed can happen.
00:16:45
Speaker
Wow, that's amazing to to hear that because I feel like sometimes in in Europe we get stuck into legislations and things are moving slow. Is that something that sometimes frustrates you or is it just part of but of the game? It's both. It frustrates me tremendously, but unfortunately it's part of the game. um I think every country in Europe realizes that if you continue down this path,
00:17:09
Speaker
We will stop creating prosperity in in this area of the world because it is tremendously difficult to start a new factory. I mean, these processes take 10, 15 years, um and and we need to basically turn a switch. Now, with this being said, we need to respect ah certain rules, of course. This cannot be the Wild West, but I think um you know we've we've We've come in a situation where it has become nearly impossible to start any new big projects in many European countries, and I think that's to our detriment. Whereas in Africa, ah you have also rules and regulations
00:17:47
Speaker
ah But they are, in my view, much more pragmatic. Of course, you will say they need investment, which is true. ah But they don't just take an investment at any price, any costs, and any project. They also have their own rules. But they are much more pragmatic ah looking towards the future. And don't forget, it's the only continent where we will see population growth.
00:18:08
Speaker
We are on demographic decline, oh bar immigration. Africa will add 1 billion people in the next three decades.
Biochar and Sustainable Agriculture
00:18:15
Speaker
ah So we need to create ah on that continent prosperity in order to integrate all the new young people that will come into the economy.
00:18:24
Speaker
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00:18:47
Speaker
It's interesting because I think it was Elon Musk who said like the biggest problem in the next 50 years is not going to be overpopulation. In contrary, the depopulation that we will have too little people on the planet and that can have a big impact. So I think that's fascinating to look at it from that standpoint.
00:19:06
Speaker
But now, getting more into the way the systems work today, looking at the big impact we have on climate change. like it'ss It's becoming stronger and stronger every year. We've just seen Valencia flooded in in flash floods. They didn't have rain for 11 months. All of a sudden, they get so much water. and The whole town was flooded. It's it's become like mainstream news. Brazil was on fire a couple of months ago.
00:19:35
Speaker
Do you think that we are still moving way too slow? And is it something that frustrates you as well? Like looking like, OK, we have this massive problem racing towards us. We should be taking more action. Is that something that bothers you?
00:19:52
Speaker
and Okay, I'm not a politician. I'm an entrepreneur. So ah I think, yes, as a citizen of the world, we're not moving fast enough. But instead of complaining, let's just get on with it no and and and move ahead. um And I do see a lot of companies that have this realization, ah definitely here in Europe, but I think Asia is following suit as well. We just mentioned Africa. and They see this as a big opportunity. For the next four years, we'll see what happens in the United States. and thats Of course, ah the new president elect has been very vocal of of not wanting to go down that route. I think the end results might be more balanced than and what people think because there's the states in the United States that have quite a lot of power as well. You see what's happening in California. You see what's happening on the East Coast. ah So I don't think it will totally go away. But clearly from a a federal United States policy, we might see four slow years in the energy transition.
00:20:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's interesting that Trump is going like we're going to continue the the fossil fuels. But at the same time, he's actually getting a lot of interest in regenerative farming. So that's my my next question, beyond decarbonization.
00:21:07
Speaker
We also have to do regeneration. Where do you see the biggest opportunities and challenges in going beyond the decarbonization and sequestering more carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere so that we can mitigate the climate change? Again, this is not my specialty.
00:21:23
Speaker
ah But we follow it very closely, and capturing carbon through sustainable agriculture, through projects like Biochar and and and other projects that are around. yeahp I think it will be an essential part of the mix of taking CO2 out of the atmosphere or making sure that there's no more CO2 going into the atmosphere.
00:21:42
Speaker
um As a company, we have invested in certain projects and we might accelerate these investments. But again, this is not our core business. So we would be more off takers of these projects or supporting these projects than really ah building a business model around it. But will it be part of the mix? Definitely.
Investment in Low-Carbon Ships
00:22:00
Speaker
I think it's interesting, let's talk a bit more about biochar because I think there's a lot of potential looking at there's a a lot of green waste on the planet that can be used to create biochar and one of the site's products is energy, it's heat. Do you have any knowledge that this is going to be integrated in in your business to create sustainable energy?
00:22:24
Speaker
Well, we've we've had discussions with people that want to produce biochar um and as a side project ah product, ah the energy can be used to produce, for instance, hydrogen because hydrogen is a very energy intensive production process. um So, yes, I mean, we will we will look at these projects and I think it can definitely ah complement what we do in terms of decarbonization.
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah, because we talked about it and before our interview, your brother is also working in regenerative farming in Peru and they're also looking into ah biochar. Is it something you discuss with your brother or how does that go? Sure, I discuss it a lot with my brother and I discuss it with many people that are involved in in these kind of projects. um I think it is not directly linked to the the business of transportation by ship, no but as we emit CO2,
00:23:13
Speaker
And we're looking at ways of capturing our CO2. This is definitely an avenue we will explore. Yeah, I think it's interesting, to the business model now is OK. How can we produce energy neutral or CO2 neutral energy, right, with the hydrogen, solar, all the installations? And then if we can add systems that also do regeneration, I think we're getting into a really interesting mix because I think when we use the right technologies, it can go very fast, the regeneration process.
00:23:46
Speaker
because we've been declining very fast. But I think in the upside, we can regenerate very fast. So now back to the business here, CMB tech. So how do you navigate quite literally navigate? How do you navigate between operating a successful business and going as far as you can in innovating and going like going ahead and in in the industry? Very simple.
00:24:14
Speaker
In order to invest in innovation, you need to make money. And ah clearly, and we have stated this many times, the money we are making by transporting fossil fuels or transporting other goods, yep we are in an accelerated way reinvesting it into low carbon solutions. ah So you will see nearly all of the ships that CMB Tech has on order, so new ships that will to be delivered this year, next year in 26, 27.
00:24:42
Speaker
ah will have low carbon technology on board. That is what we're trying to do. Now, in the end, that model only holds if the new products we put on the market can also make money. And this is where we are still in a kind of ah yeah uncertain situation because there's only a very small portion of my customers that is willing to pay to be green. The vast majority does not does not want to pay extra to be green. So I need to hope and of course I need to work very hard to increase that share of customers that are willing to pay to be low carbon
00:25:20
Speaker
in order for our business model to be sustainable in the long run because we need money, we need to make money to continue to invest in innovation. um And I think this is probably the biggest challenge we're going to have in the next 5 to 10 years. But this being said, we're very hopeful and very positive.
00:25:37
Speaker
Because of the last five years, we've really seen a total shift of mindset, whereas nobody was willing to pay for it. We have now some people that are willing to pay for it, and we see that it's accelerating.
Funding Green Projects with Fossil Fuel Profits
00:25:48
Speaker
And at the same time, we're also making our low carbon solutions cheaper. So it's coming from both sides. ah More interest on the one side, and we need to continuously work to bringing the cost down. In the end, if we are at diesel parity, as we say,
00:26:03
Speaker
If a diesel ship costs as much as a green ship, everybody will go for the green ship. We're not there yet, but working very hard to get there. And then the political pressure is there as well with the green deal. Europe is taking the route. Sure. But I think as a private company, you should never make the mistake of basing your business model on subsidies.
00:26:21
Speaker
That's very dangerous because you have a change in politics and then suddenly the subsidies are gone. ah You lose the momentum. So I think um I always say that the biggest subsidy the government can give us is making sure regulations are clear exactly and leave us the entrepreneurs alone within your regulatory framework. That is the biggest subsidy.
00:26:42
Speaker
If on top of that, you can have some mechanisms like contracts for difference. I don't know if you know that concept. It's basically to cover the gap between a green fuel and a fossil fuel. Today there's a gap. In pricing. Indeed. And governments can step in to cover that price differential.
00:27:00
Speaker
and basically pay the producer of the fuel the difference for a certain period of time and then it goes down. It's a little bit what they have done to develop the offshore winds in the North Sea. These mechanisms are definitely supportive, but as I say, we can't count only on subsidies to green the planet. We will need technology, we'll need entrepreneurs, and we'll need willing customers.
00:27:23
Speaker
I agree. So is that also part why the recent re-acquisition of Euronav in and your company was such an important step forward or were you so committed at taking back control? Euronav was part of our family company until 2004 and then we spun it off on the stock exchange. The reason we stepped back into Euronav and we fought very hard to regain control of that company.
00:27:50
Speaker
is that we we saw a large listed company, both in New York and in Brussels. And when you're a listed company, you can have access to capital markets in a much easier way than if you're a private company. And we saw a company that was potentially going to make a lot of money, and it turned out to be true. Because of the cyclicality of the markets, tanker markets were down at one point, but after a period of time, ah they go up and and and they did that. So we said, well, if we can use that platform,
00:28:20
Speaker
to raise money for our decarbonization projects on the one hand. But at the same time, make money by transporting oil in an accelerated way, reinvest that money into low carbon solutions. We could have the best of both worlds.
00:28:36
Speaker
And that's exactly what we did this year on the 15th of March. Basically, we concluded a long process ah of turning Uranav into CMB tech, turning a pure play tanker owner into a diversified future proof maritime group, which is CMB tech.
00:28:55
Speaker
I think it's interesting that we can actually, we could look at fossil fuels as like the demon of climate change and it is a problem but we can also use it as a solution and and speed up the the regeneration process. I think that... Use carbon to decarbonize. It's quite contradictory but... it's not It is not. I think the biggest gains one can make to decarbonize the economy is to tackle the sectors that are emitting most CO2, invest in these companies to accelerate the reduction in CO2. Of course, you need to invest in startups and scale-ups and innovation and and green companies. But the biggest gains are in the companies that are emit the most. And on top of it,
00:29:38
Speaker
Most of these companies today are profitable. So you can use these profits to reinvest in green
Operational Efficiency and Team Delegation
00:29:43
Speaker
solutions. And by the way, this is not only you're an FCMB tech story. There's many different stories of coal mines, coal groups that turn into offshore wind energy groups. you know Companies that were making diesel engines that are making batteries today. So it's not a contradiction. No, I think I agree. I hope i even heard ah a statement somebody saying back to the developing countries.
00:30:05
Speaker
like they should burn through their fossil fuels faster so they can go through a way faster industrial revolution than we it took us 200 years to be where we are now and like you said the developing countries have it's different they have innovation so they should go through it even faster I think nobody has the right to tell them like okay you should stop burning fossil fuels because it's only going to limit the amount of innovation that they can make to to speed up the process and then to to go away from from carbon so I think that's a very important take to look at
00:30:39
Speaker
Now, I'm curious, because you're running quite a big company that is working on on a variety of of projects, how do you ah this how do you delegate your own day? What are you mostly working on from a day-to-day basis? is it Is it different every day, or are you you're looking at all of the the parts of the of the company? Of course it's different every day, but I have a fantastic team, so we work very well together.
00:31:06
Speaker
And I'm just trying to make sure that all the projects that we initiate, so um that they find sufficient financing, that we find the customers, that it's operationally ah working well, um but I can count on fantastic teams supporting me.
Challenges in Hydrogen and Ammonia Supply
00:31:20
Speaker
I think that's interesting. So now also looking at the next 10 years, what do you think will be the biggest challenges and what are the opportunities that are going to come from tackling those challenges? It's very easy. For us, it's access to the fuel. I don't see technology as being a challenge anymore. Of course, we need to fine tune it. We need to make it cheaper. We need to scale it up.
00:31:42
Speaker
ah But technology is there. It is just getting access to the fuel. That is going to be the most important one. So we need to produce hydrogen and ammonia at a large scale because it's not only shipping that needs to decarbonize with these molecules. There's a lot of other industrial sectors that will need these molecules. For instance, agriculture as well. ah You cannot electrify everything.
00:32:04
Speaker
What we can electrify, connect to the grid or go to battery, we should do it. That's the easiest and most efficient way of doing it. But there are certain sectors like long haul road transportation for trucks, like shipping, like steel production, like the cement industry.
00:32:21
Speaker
where you don't have ready-made solutions based on electricity. Airplanes. Airplanes, indeed. That's even more complex than than shipping. So there you will need a large amount of green molecules. And in my book, that's ah hydrogen or hydrogen-based, which is then normally ah ammonia.
00:32:38
Speaker
I think Rolls Royce is working on a hydrogen engine for airplanes. You might be familiar with that. ah So it's interesting to see it's working in different industries. So do you stay connected or how do you stay connected in all the updates that are happening globally?
Financial and Regulatory Challenges in Hydrogen Market
00:32:55
Speaker
But again, we have a great team that is ah you know has the finger on the pulse following everything which is happening. ah Logically, when you are in the hydrogen economy, people come and see you. Of course, we see other people. It's a very vibrant ah ecosystem.
00:33:12
Speaker
But it's an ecosystem which is suffering financially. um Because let's be clear, there's been a hydrogen hype two, three years ago. A lot of these companies have gone bankrupt, have fallen down again. So this is not a nice line of growth. it's ah It's up and down. And it's sometimes very tough. Why is that you think that? Is it too and enthusiastic? or No, I think it's just a process. ah This is a radical change. The energy transition that we have today is is very radical. And so it's logical that you know things don't change overnight. Don't forget in the past, and referring to our industry only, but I think you can make the ah analogy to other sectors. When we change technology,
00:33:58
Speaker
Usually, nearly in all the cases, it meant the technology was better and cheaper. Now, this time round, you are asking an industry like mine to shift to something which is worse, much more complicated as a technology, and much more expensive. So there's a lot of resistance. And so the way you can solve this is, of course, to make it more efficient, to make it better, and to make it cheaper, but that takes time, or through regulation.
00:34:28
Speaker
but it's always much more difficult to impose new technologies through regulation than bottom up because it's just a better thing to use. How do you think that if we could balance like the impact, the fossil fuels, and if if we could put a price on what the fossil fuels have an impact on our environment and how it's, for example, having an an impact on insurance companies that have to deal with a lot of the the damage that's being done by ah natural catastrophic events. Like if we could put a price on that, it would become way more evident to use the green technologies because it's becoming very, very expensive to rebuild all of these communities. Do you see a way to solve that? No, through taxes.
00:35:17
Speaker
But again, I'm telling you, there's a lot of reluctance on taxes. and There's a lot of resistance. People don't like to pay taxes. So it's always going to be more difficult to impose technology through taxes than if the technology is better and cheaper. But again, we've seen it with a lot of recent technological innovations. I mentioned solar panels and batteries. They have gone through the same cycle. And look at you know how much it costs now, solar panels and batteries.
Encouraging Youth in Sustainable Business
00:35:44
Speaker
They've become very, very cheap.
00:35:46
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting. Well, I think we have a ah great conversation going on here, but I have to be respectful of your time. To finalize it, I would like a message that you talk to young people that are looking to get started in an industry or have a positive impact on the environment and ah build a business around it. What is your single most important advice for them to to get started?
00:36:14
Speaker
Just do it. ah Come and join us. I think it's ah it's a fascinating world we live in. A transition world is understanding what happened in the past, what is happening today, and looking forward on how we can change ah the future, but with very concrete examples. I think any young person that wants to start, go to a company ah that is doing things, not only talking about it.
00:36:39
Speaker
And I think definitely at CMB Tech, that's what we're trying to do and we don't do everything right, ah but we must be doing something right because I think a lot of people ah come and want to work for us and I'm very delighted and honored that they want to do that. So they're more than welcome.
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's amazing. And thank you for sharing your time and sharing your expertise. I think it's a great example of how we can do something that is good for the environment, even though it's like in one of the most difficult industries, one of the most polluting industries. You're in the forefront of changing that. So congratulations on that. And thank you very much for coming on the show, Alexander Stavries. Thank you. Thank you, Matthew. Thank you very much.