Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
95 Hannah Schofield | Literary Agent
563 Plays3 years ago
Literary agent and winner of the RNA's Agent of the Year 2022, Hannah Schofield is on the podcast this week, telling us all about her work with romantic writers, what she thinks the next big trends will be in publishing and not getting bogged down by amazing seven figure deal announcements.
Signing up to the Patreon will give you access to the Discord server, where you'll be able to interact directly with Jamie as well as many of the previous agents, authors and editors who have been on the show. You'll also be able to see who the upcoming guests are and put forward questions for Jamie to ask them.
Get a whole month with WriteMentor's Hub for free using the coupon code 'Write&Wrong'.
The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes
Jamie, Melissa and Noami talk about the best and the worst writing tropes!
Click here to find all of our guests' books as well as the desert island library over at bookshop.org.
Click on this referral link to get 30% off your first three months with Zencastr.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Partnership Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode is brought to you in partnership with WriteMentor.
00:00:03
Speaker
If you're a children's writer, you've probably heard of WriteMentor, and if not, do I have a treat for you.
00:00:07
Speaker
WriteMentor is a group of authors and friends who've built a supportive system for fellow storytellers from picture books up to young adult that delivers mentoring programs, courses and conferences and much, much more.
00:00:17
Speaker
WriteMentor has a range of services, but if you stick around until the end of the episode, you can find out how to get an entire month of their premium subscription, the WriteMentor Hub, for free.
00:00:26
Speaker
So I will see you at the end.
00:00:28
Speaker
Now, let's get back to the episode.
00:00:29
Speaker
So our podcast is called Right and Wrong.
00:00:31
Speaker
Are these your notes?
00:00:33
Speaker
These are your notes about what we're going to say.
00:00:36
Speaker
Anything.
00:00:36
Speaker
It's a short answer.
00:00:38
Speaker
So how many novels did you not finish?
00:00:41
Speaker
Oh my God, so many.
00:00:43
Speaker
It was perfect.
Secret to Getting Published Revealed
00:00:44
Speaker
What are you talking about?
00:00:45
Speaker
This is not a good one.
00:00:46
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question.
00:00:49
Speaker
I love it.
00:00:49
Speaker
This is it, guys.
00:00:51
Speaker
The big secret to getting published is you have to write a good book.
00:00:55
Speaker
I'm a pretty ancestor.
00:00:56
Speaker
I'm a pretty ancestor.
Interview with Hannah Schofield
00:00:59
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast.
00:01:02
Speaker
We are continuing the team up with the RNA as I am delighted to welcome back to the podcast one of this year's nominees for Agent of the Year, Hannah Schofield.
00:01:12
Speaker
Hi Hannah, welcome back.
00:01:13
Speaker
Hannah Schofield Hi, thank you so much for having me again.
00:01:16
Speaker
I'm delighted to be here under such exciting circumstances.
00:01:20
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:01:21
Speaker
Congratulations on being nominated as Agent of the Year 2022.
00:01:25
Speaker
It must be a great feeling.
00:01:27
Speaker
Hi guys, Jamie from The Future here.
00:01:29
Speaker
We actually recorded this before it was announced who the winners were and Hannah did end up winning the RNA's Agent of the Year 2022.
00:01:36
Speaker
So huge congratulations to her.
00:01:37
Speaker
Yes, it was such an enormous surprise because I only sold my first book less than three years ago and I'd always thought...
00:01:48
Speaker
I would love to win the RNA agent of the year one day in the future.
00:01:53
Speaker
And then so I got a letter, well, an email saying I would have been nominated and I was so over the moon excited.
00:01:59
Speaker
And then a week later I got another email that said, you've been shortlisted.
00:02:04
Speaker
And I just couldn't believe it.
00:02:06
Speaker
This is, yeah, a real career highlight.
00:02:08
Speaker
I'm so excited.
00:02:10
Speaker
Oh, that's amazing.
00:02:11
Speaker
And I'm glad.
00:02:13
Speaker
Have you worked with the RNA sort of throughout your career?
00:02:17
Speaker
Yes, I have.
00:02:18
Speaker
I've done, well, I did their in-person conference for the first time this summer, which was really exciting.
00:02:23
Speaker
And I actually got to meet some of my authors in person there for the first time, which was great.
00:02:29
Speaker
But previous to that, I'd done several of their online one-to-ones with aspiring authors or up-and-coming authors.
00:02:38
Speaker
So I've been sort of involved with RNA for a while.
00:02:43
Speaker
And my colleague, the very wonderful Amanda Preston,
00:02:46
Speaker
Also one agent of the year, I think four years ago.
00:02:50
Speaker
So she's always been very connected to the RNA.
00:02:54
Speaker
And luckily I've been able to be as well.
00:02:56
Speaker
Amazing.
00:02:57
Speaker
I mean, it must be even more sort of validating and amazing being sort of tied in with the network already.
00:03:05
Speaker
Yes, definitely.
00:03:07
Speaker
I mean, the RNA are full of absolutely amazing people and amazing writers.
00:03:13
Speaker
And being able to meet them in person this summer was so wonderful.
00:03:18
Speaker
and then shortly afterwards to have been put forward for this award, I just felt utterly bowled over.
00:03:25
Speaker
It was really, yeah, amazing.
00:03:27
Speaker
And I'm so glad that such a prestigious trade body has, has, has recognized my love for and championing of romantic fiction.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yes.
00:03:37
Speaker
Yeah.
Hannah's Book Preferences
00:03:38
Speaker
More power to romantic fiction.
00:03:41
Speaker
now of course you've already been on the podcast so anyone listening if you want to hear more about hannah's start in publishing and her journey to becoming an agent as well as a sort of in-depth look at submissions and things like that skip back a few episodes you can find that but let's just do a quick uh a quick recap you are part of the team over at
00:04:02
Speaker
LBA books.
00:04:03
Speaker
Yes.
00:04:04
Speaker
And your list is adult fiction, but it's fairly eclectic within adult fiction.
00:04:12
Speaker
It's very eclectic.
00:04:14
Speaker
It's adult fiction with some adult nonfiction and some young adult fiction.
00:04:20
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:20
Speaker
So it's a real mix.
00:04:21
Speaker
And someone the other day asked me to sort of define my list in a few words.
00:04:27
Speaker
And the only defining fact I think is things that I like
00:04:32
Speaker
Oh, excellent.
00:04:33
Speaker
Very helpful.
00:04:34
Speaker
It's difficult to pitch.
00:04:35
Speaker
I think in general, I love, I love stories about people and relationships and love, of course.
00:04:43
Speaker
And that always cuts through, regardless of the genre.
00:04:49
Speaker
So a very broad strokes example is the two most recent book deals that I announced.
00:04:55
Speaker
One of them
00:04:56
Speaker
was a young adult fantasy romance.
00:04:58
Speaker
And the other was a serious nonfiction history of disability in Britain.
00:05:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:05
Speaker
They're completely different.
00:05:07
Speaker
And they are, but they both really tap into human stories and what it's like to be a person.
00:05:15
Speaker
And those are the sorts of things that really catch
00:05:18
Speaker
to me.
00:05:19
Speaker
I just need that emotional investment, regardless of genre, regardless of fiction or nonfiction.
00:05:24
Speaker
That's really what I'm looking for to feel something.
00:05:27
Speaker
Yes.
00:05:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:29
Speaker
I guess then it might be easier in some ways to, to ask.
00:05:33
Speaker
I mean, that was actually very helpful and it does, even though those, you described those two book, recent book signings and they sound very far away.
00:05:41
Speaker
But then when you put it in the context of what I'm looking for, something that is relatable sort of human experience, I
00:05:51
Speaker
So I guess, would it be easier to ask, what don't you represent?
00:05:56
Speaker
Maybe, actually, yes.
00:05:57
Speaker
I think that is easier because I don't represent literary fiction.
00:06:03
Speaker
If you want to win the Brooker Prize, more power to you.
00:06:06
Speaker
That's not the sort of books that I gravitate towards.
00:06:10
Speaker
And I also do most genres of commercial fiction, but I don't really do sci-fi or military thriller fiction.
00:06:21
Speaker
or sort of action-adventure style books.
00:06:23
Speaker
Like I do do some thriller, but it tends to be sort of more psychological rather than adventure.
00:06:31
Speaker
But otherwise, I always describe myself as rather genre agnostic.
00:06:37
Speaker
And I like to be surprised.
00:06:39
Speaker
So I try not to say never to anything.
00:06:44
Speaker
I thought I would never do any fantasy.
00:06:45
Speaker
And then I read some fantasy and I was like, this is amazing.
00:06:48
Speaker
I must do it.
00:06:49
Speaker
So yeah, I just love to be surprised and engaged regardless of the sort of fiction or nonfiction that is.
00:06:59
Speaker
Okay, amazing.
00:07:00
Speaker
You do young adult, but you don't go younger?
00:07:04
Speaker
No, I've done some for co-agenting opportunities, i.e.
00:07:09
Speaker
I have sold the UK rights for an American agent, but I'm not currently looking for anything younger than YA for my primary list.
00:07:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:19
Speaker
So YA and up.
00:07:20
Speaker
And I mean, speaking of international agents, that sounded weirdly like a sort of James Bond kind of thing.
00:07:28
Speaker
Speaking of international publishing, we recently had the Frankfurt Book
Insights from the Frankfurt Book Fair
00:07:34
Speaker
Fair.
00:07:34
Speaker
It was not long ago.
00:07:36
Speaker
Did you attend?
00:07:38
Speaker
I didn't actually.
00:07:40
Speaker
I have been in the past and it was an incredibly overwhelming experience.
00:07:45
Speaker
Some good, some bad.
00:07:49
Speaker
But no, I didn't attend this year.
00:07:51
Speaker
So I'm currently checking in.
00:07:53
Speaker
with my translation rights partners to see how they got on at the fair and what deals might be forthcoming after all their meetings.
00:08:02
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to ask, obviously it's maybe one of the biggest international sort of publishing events in the calendar.
00:08:10
Speaker
I imagine it's one of the best also opportunities to sort of learn about foreign markets and what is selling across the world in many ways.
00:08:19
Speaker
Yeah, totally.
00:08:21
Speaker
So as you might remember from the previous podcast, my first full-time job in publishing was for a scouting agency who work for foreign publishers as a consultant to find the best books in English to get them to buy a translation.
00:08:37
Speaker
So when I attended the Frankfurt Book Fair, I was there for a scouting capacity.
00:08:43
Speaker
And that taught me so much about
00:08:46
Speaker
what foreign publishers look for, what they value, what they get excited about, how to get them excited about projects.
00:08:53
Speaker
And I always bring those learnings into when I'm thinking about signing an author or when I'm going out with a new submission, I always, always think about, okay, what's the foreign potential for this?
00:09:05
Speaker
How would I pitch it internationally?
00:09:07
Speaker
Could I see Germany, France, Italy, et cetera, getting excited about this?
00:09:12
Speaker
Like I always factor that in to,
00:09:15
Speaker
my thinking when I'm, when I'm planning submissions or signing authors.
00:09:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:21
Speaker
And I mean, let's take those countries used as an example.
00:09:25
Speaker
Um, are there sort of, is it the same big genres that dominate the charts there as it is in the UK or is it wildly different?
00:09:34
Speaker
Um, I wouldn't say it's wildly different, but every territory is different and have different, um,
00:09:41
Speaker
I guess, values and focuses based on their market.
00:09:48
Speaker
I also grew up in Luxembourg.
00:09:50
Speaker
So I grew up around people from lots of different nationalities.
00:09:53
Speaker
So I always think I got a slight insider track into, you know, what might make a French reader tick.
00:09:59
Speaker
I mean, you know, perhaps.
00:10:02
Speaker
I like to think that anyway.
00:10:05
Speaker
But yeah, so it's really important to keep on top of international trends as well as national trends, because
00:10:11
Speaker
Yes, sometimes they
Publishing Trends and Market Insights
00:10:13
Speaker
are the same.
00:10:13
Speaker
I mean, Richard Osman obviously is doing amazing things all over the planet.
00:10:19
Speaker
But some things work really well in Britain and not elsewhere.
00:10:22
Speaker
And some things work really well elsewhere and not in Britain.
00:10:25
Speaker
Lucinda Riley, for example, was a huge bestseller in the Netherlands and Germany, I think long before she got married.
00:10:33
Speaker
hit the charts in the UK just because their market was sort of ahead of us for that sort of fiction.
00:10:38
Speaker
So yeah.
00:10:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:41
Speaker
And of course, lots of book deals and announcements come out in and around Frankfurt.
00:10:50
Speaker
We chatted about this on email briefly, specifically when the huge seven figure deals come out.
00:11:00
Speaker
And you've been thinking about that a lot.
00:11:02
Speaker
You mentioned that.
00:11:03
Speaker
Yes, because I too had an exciting Frankfurt announcement that was coming out, which was the fantasy romance.
00:11:12
Speaker
And I was super excited for that to be announced.
00:11:15
Speaker
But I still got in my head the previous week when I was seeing all of these other massive deals being like thinking, oh, no, I'm like, why aren't I doing those deals?
00:11:27
Speaker
Why isn't my office on those deals?
00:11:29
Speaker
And I think if you're an agent or if you're
00:11:32
Speaker
an author, it's a really tough time of year because it feels like in zero sum game in which all of these huge deals and huge authors announcements come out and you think, well, what about me?
00:11:44
Speaker
What about my books?
00:11:47
Speaker
And that is tough, but it's also an illusion.
00:11:51
Speaker
A lot of those deals have been done months before and kept the news back to announce at the most buzzy time of year.
00:11:59
Speaker
So I think that's worth remembering.
00:12:01
Speaker
It's not just that, for example, if you're on submission to publishers at the moment, it's not that publishers aren't reading your books because they're too busy buying these other giant books.
00:12:12
Speaker
That's probably not the case.
00:12:13
Speaker
They probably bought that giant book six months ago and just didn't announce it till now.
00:12:19
Speaker
But it is a time of year which I think comparison culture can get really intense.
00:12:25
Speaker
So I had to really take a step back and be like, okay,
00:12:29
Speaker
I know everything's fine.
00:12:30
Speaker
I'm just in my head about this.
00:12:32
Speaker
It's all an illusion.
00:12:34
Speaker
But it is tough.
00:12:34
Speaker
And I think particularly for nervous writers, nervous agents, it can be a quite confronting experience to be faced with so much success that isn't yours.
00:12:46
Speaker
Yes.
00:12:47
Speaker
But it's not a zero-sum game.
00:12:48
Speaker
It is not a zero-sum game.
00:12:51
Speaker
I mean, the other thing to remember, and this is especially for authors, is that you don't hear about all of the authors and agents who the publishers aren't signing.
00:13:03
Speaker
And you rarely see a headline that'll read, author signs, five figure deal, which is much more common than six or seven figure.
00:13:12
Speaker
Definitely.
00:13:14
Speaker
And I think obviously, you know, that makes sense from an early marketing perspective that a publisher wants to be more excited about something they've paid more money for so that they can make their money back, essentially.
00:13:26
Speaker
But also that they're always the outliers.
00:13:30
Speaker
Sometimes books don't even get like a bookseller announcement.
00:13:33
Speaker
They'll be announced on Twitter or
00:13:35
Speaker
on another social platform.
00:13:37
Speaker
But that doesn't mean they're not going to do well.
00:13:39
Speaker
So it's all smoke and mirrors, kind of.
00:13:45
Speaker
Kind of.
00:13:45
Speaker
There's more to the puzzle, I think, than just big deals mean big success.
00:13:52
Speaker
Sometimes they do, but sometimes smaller deals mean big success as well.
00:13:56
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:13:57
Speaker
And Amara, in thinking the announcement you're talking about is Bea Fitzgerald's... It is....girl goddess queen.
00:14:04
Speaker
Yes.
00:14:05
Speaker
Which feeds really nicely into my next question, because I have heard that there's... And I'm always interested to see what the trends are, what's becoming popular and things like that.
00:14:16
Speaker
And I've heard a lot of buzz about romanticism.
00:14:21
Speaker
as the next big thing and obviously um girl goddess queen falls perfectly into that category do you think that that is something that is going to be very popular in the next sort of year or so i think so i mean it's always been very popular certainly in the last few years anyway when i've been aware of it in um independent publishing like self-publishing um and i think because it has so much success in that sphere publishers
00:14:49
Speaker
are taking notice.
00:14:51
Speaker
And obviously the rise of book talk has been hugely influential in this, where readers sort of congregate and get excited about all their favorite ships in romanticcy.
00:15:02
Speaker
So I think it's one of those things which has been really reader led in a very exciting way because TikTok is a
00:15:10
Speaker
peer-to-peer recommendations in a way that I feel that the industry hasn't seen on that scale for a long time.
00:15:17
Speaker
So that's really cool, in my opinion.
00:15:21
Speaker
And if publishers are taking notice, fantastic.
00:15:24
Speaker
Give those readers more to digest, I say.
00:15:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:28
Speaker
And obviously TikTok as well is like, it's almost like a way to tap into an entire generation.
00:15:34
Speaker
Yes.
00:15:34
Speaker
Which is, as an advertising opportunity, you know, an incredible thing to have.
00:15:39
Speaker
Very valuable.
00:15:39
Speaker
Definitely.
00:15:41
Speaker
Other than romanticy, the next big thing, are there any other sort of genres or trends that you could see on the rise in the next year or so?
00:15:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:53
Speaker
I've been thinking about this.
00:15:54
Speaker
It's not the first time I've been asked actually.
00:15:57
Speaker
I kind of get like, I don't know, I stress out about the trends question because how, how can I predict the trends?
00:16:04
Speaker
I wish I could, I wish I knew exactly what was going to sell.
00:16:08
Speaker
But I think things that we've been seeing a lot of doing really well cutting through in terms of book deals is Cozy Crime.
00:16:16
Speaker
Again, the Richard Osman effect, but there's been some other really cool Cozy Crime things coming through.
00:16:22
Speaker
I think rom-com still doing really well, but at the moment we're looking for rom-com plus, I would say.
00:16:29
Speaker
Um, so I was talking to an editor the other day who'd acquired a heist rom-com, which I think is fantastic where it hits all the beats of a rom-com, but it's also got that other kind of genre spin on it.
00:16:41
Speaker
And I think in a market that's moving towards saturation as everything does when it gets popular, um, having that extra something is, is really helpful to stand out from the crowd.
00:16:53
Speaker
Uh, so that would probably be my,
00:16:56
Speaker
like romanticy, cozy crime, rom-com plus.
00:16:59
Speaker
That's what I'm looking for.
00:17:01
Speaker
Or that's what people are looking for.
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:04
Speaker
Rom-com with a side of this.
00:17:06
Speaker
Rom-com set in this thing.
00:17:08
Speaker
Okay, okay.
00:17:10
Speaker
That's really interesting.
00:17:11
Speaker
And great for romance as a genre to have things like romanticy becoming very big and also rom-com plus becoming like a big thing.
00:17:21
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:17:22
Speaker
And I think for romance...
00:17:25
Speaker
I think it's really exciting that there is so much diversity within the genre, that there are loads of ways to write love stories.
00:17:34
Speaker
There are loads of ways to write romantic fiction, whether that's historical or contemporary or straight or queer.
00:17:41
Speaker
And I love that it has so much opportunity within that genre to do lots of different things.
00:17:48
Speaker
So
00:17:49
Speaker
I think people mashing up genres, whether that's fantasy romance or heist romance, that's really exciting.
00:17:57
Speaker
Heist romance.
00:17:58
Speaker
Maybe that's going to be the next thing.
00:18:00
Speaker
I mean, I love books about con women.
00:18:03
Speaker
I love books about con women.
00:18:04
Speaker
And mostly I've read books about con women in thriller, like in thriller and suspense.
00:18:10
Speaker
And so if that were combined with rom-com, another of my favorite genres, maybe that would be my favorite mashup for who knows.
00:18:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:18
Speaker
Heist is forever tainted for me as a genre after I saw the Rick and Morty episode about heists.
00:18:23
Speaker
And now I can never take heists seriously again.
00:18:27
Speaker
I don't think I will because I love a heist.
00:18:30
Speaker
I have to keep that pure.
00:18:32
Speaker
I mean, I still love, you know, something like Ocean's Eleven.
00:18:35
Speaker
I still love a classic, a classic heist.
00:18:38
Speaker
Let's get back on track.
00:18:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:41
Speaker
So beyond those sort of popular genres, trends that are maybe coming into fashion, it's very hard to keep up with trends though, because especially with the rate of publishing, by the time you have tried to see a trend, write a trend, get an agent, agent has put that to the publisher, that trend might not be a thing anymore.
00:19:00
Speaker
Exactly.
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:01
Speaker
So I think I do caution against, I caution against two things.
00:19:06
Speaker
Number one, writing for trends, because by the time your book comes out, that trend might be over or people are like, oh, I'm so bored of that trend now.
00:19:15
Speaker
And thing number two is cautioning against not thinking about trends at all.
00:19:21
Speaker
I think particularly for commercial fiction, you have to have an eye on the market because
00:19:26
Speaker
If you don't fit into a category for commercial fiction, it's very, very difficult to find a publisher because there's not like a designated space for you at the moment.
00:19:37
Speaker
That's not to say there wouldn't be in the future.
00:19:40
Speaker
So, you know, write what you love, keep on your passion project, but also think about if you want to have writing as a career,
00:19:49
Speaker
what the market is
Genre Trends and Writing Advice
00:19:51
Speaker
looking for.
00:19:51
Speaker
The market dictates.
00:19:53
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:19:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:55
Speaker
And I think that's the same with all kind of creative outlets and disciplines.
00:20:00
Speaker
If you look at television, if you look at movies, if you look at video games, it's the key to success often is something sort of familiar, recognizable, yet different.
00:20:12
Speaker
Yes, definitely.
00:20:13
Speaker
So a spin on an established trope or an established classic
00:20:18
Speaker
or a new way of looking at a story structure that people already like.
00:20:25
Speaker
I think that is often the way to have that great success and have that cut through is give people something which is familiar enough that they sort of feel comfortable in the world that you're building different enough that it stands out as, as your project, as your book itself.
00:20:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:46
Speaker
As, as someone who's a very big fantasy reader, I find that a lot when I try and get people who are not big fantasy readers into fantasy, I'll read a page of seeming nonsense, but I understand the sort of the tropes and the meta of how fantasy is constructed and written.
00:21:04
Speaker
And I read a lot of hard fantasy as well.
00:21:06
Speaker
So I understand rule structures and things.
00:21:09
Speaker
Whereas someone who's not experienced in fantasy will open it and just see
00:21:12
Speaker
page of, it's like, well, half the words here are gobbledygook.
00:21:15
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, but you'll find out what that is later on and it'll all make sense.
00:21:19
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:21:21
Speaker
And I think that's one of the greatly fun things about reading, particularly if you are specifically in one genre or one fandom, is that there are all these kind of inside jokes and inside information that
00:21:34
Speaker
that the more you're immersed, the more you understand.
00:21:37
Speaker
Like that's really cool.
00:21:38
Speaker
And then also if you're a creator, the more you understand, the more you can riff off those established tropes to create something new.
00:21:47
Speaker
Yeah, I have some of my friends are very into board games and it's a weird comparison, but they do when they get a new board game or they'll learn a new board game and they'll sit down and because their knowledge of board games is so extensive.
00:21:59
Speaker
They'll sit down with this, open it up, read the rules and go, okay, so that's like Monopoly crossed with Catan.
00:22:06
Speaker
So that's that rule system from that.
00:22:07
Speaker
Then they'll just chuck the rules away and be like, okay, I understand.
00:22:10
Speaker
Because they're all formed around this, this like pre-established understanding that you have these kind of rules of the genre as it were.
00:22:18
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:22:19
Speaker
And one project that I've been working on, which I won't say too much about yet, but is, is doing exactly that.
00:22:27
Speaker
It's taking established tropes of the genre and playing with them in a really fun way.
00:22:34
Speaker
So I think it will appeal to both genre fans and also maybe people who wouldn't say that they were a fan of that particular genre.
00:22:42
Speaker
But it's like a gateway drug, if you want to give the metaphor.
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's like something that's opening a door to a new reader.
00:22:52
Speaker
Yes, yes.
00:22:53
Speaker
Very much like, I think Game of Thrones acted that way to a lot of people and getting them into fantasy.
00:23:00
Speaker
And for me, it was YA fantasy that got me into reading Game of Thrones, in fact.
00:23:05
Speaker
Oh, interesting.
00:23:05
Speaker
I had read a few YA fantasies and been really excited about them.
00:23:10
Speaker
And then I sort of plucked out the courage after that to try something more epic, which...
00:23:17
Speaker
It's not something that's kind of my core genre, my core reading, but it was, yeah, from starting somewhere, which felt more accessible because I already read YA.
00:23:28
Speaker
So YA fantasy, I could recognize sort of YA conventions within the fantasy world and then moving on, moving on to fantasy from there.
00:23:36
Speaker
That really does seem like a gateway drug, though.
00:23:38
Speaker
Why fantasy into Game of Thrones is like a hard drug.
00:23:42
Speaker
Yes.
00:23:44
Speaker
I didn't finish the book series.
00:23:45
Speaker
I did finish the TV series, much to my distress, I guess.
00:23:50
Speaker
Well, yeah, it was good until the end.
00:23:53
Speaker
Quite.
00:23:54
Speaker
Really, really, yes.
00:23:56
Speaker
Before we talk too long about Game of Thrones and fantasy, which I could talk about all day, let's talk about all of the writers out there, whether they're looking at trends, whether they have something that's currently on trend and they really want to get it out.
Key to a Standout Submission
00:24:11
Speaker
Lots of people are submitting to agents right now, and I'm sure you know this.
00:24:14
Speaker
I don't need to tell you this.
00:24:15
Speaker
You probably get a million submissions a day.
00:24:18
Speaker
What do you think authors can do to really make their submissions stand out?
00:24:23
Speaker
Great question, because it is hard.
00:24:27
Speaker
I think it's worth being honest about the fact that it is hard.
00:24:30
Speaker
And there's lots of people who are searching for representation.
00:24:33
Speaker
So you're in a big pile.
00:24:39
Speaker
I think two things.
00:24:40
Speaker
One, well, I think many things, but the two main things I would say here is good writing always cuts through.
00:24:46
Speaker
Even like you can tell, even if I'm feeling a bit tired, if I'm feeling a bit hungry, if I read a submission where it's got that aha moment, that will make me sit up straight and notice.
00:24:59
Speaker
And the second thing is getting me there.
00:25:01
Speaker
So making sure I want to turn to your pages immediately,
00:25:06
Speaker
i.e.
00:25:07
Speaker
having a really strong query letter and particularly the two things that I, again, two things, that seems to be my thing today.
00:25:17
Speaker
The two things that stick out to me tend to be really great comparison titles.
00:25:22
Speaker
So perhaps something that I've talked about
00:25:25
Speaker
being one of my favorite books or an x meets y which is like quite unusual which makes me intrigued um and a very strong one-line pitch i know everyone hears about this all the time but it's true because publishers say to me unless you can pitch it in a sentence i can't buy it because i can't get it past my sales team
00:25:47
Speaker
So that's what I'm thinking about.
00:25:49
Speaker
So I'm thinking about that when looking at submissions to me, could I pitch this in a sentence?
00:25:55
Speaker
If not, what would I need to change about the project in order to pitch it in a sentence?
00:26:01
Speaker
So if the author has done some of that thinking and pitching for me, I'm already going to be more excited because I think, ah, I could sell this.
00:26:11
Speaker
And that at the core is what
00:26:14
Speaker
agents are looking for.
00:26:15
Speaker
Yes, I definitely look for projects that I'm going to fall in love with the voice and be really excited about the story.
00:26:22
Speaker
But also I need to have projects that I'm going to be able to sell.
00:26:27
Speaker
That's my job to sell your books.
00:26:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:30
Speaker
So strong comparison titles, a very good sort of one-line pitch, almost you want as close to market ready pitch as it can be, right?
00:26:42
Speaker
Because presumably, I mean, if you look at it through the lens of
00:26:46
Speaker
An agent could in theory take on any client.
00:26:51
Speaker
It's just about the amount of work it would potentially take to get that to a market ready point.
00:26:57
Speaker
I'm ignoring any kind of creative objections from the client here.
00:27:03
Speaker
Well, I guess that's kind of my job too.
00:27:05
Speaker
Not to ignore all of the things.
00:27:08
Speaker
Compromise.
00:27:09
Speaker
But compromise, exactly.
00:27:12
Speaker
I think it's much easier to quote unquote fix the plot of something than it is the essential hook of the story or the writing.
00:27:24
Speaker
So if I find something where I think, okay, there's a real kernel of something awesome here and the writing's really strong,
00:27:31
Speaker
but I'm not quite convinced by the story structure yet, that would be a conversation I'd have with the author.
00:27:37
Speaker
And I've done that before where I've written back on something that I've called in the full manuscript and said, listen, I think this, this, and this is fantastic.
00:27:46
Speaker
I love your writing, but I think we would need to do this editorial shift before I feel confident about selling it.
00:27:54
Speaker
What do you think?
00:27:56
Speaker
And, you know, a writer is well within their rights at that point to say that doesn't align with my vision.
00:28:02
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:28:03
Speaker
Goodbye.
00:28:04
Speaker
But also that's an opportunity if they want to collaborate.
00:28:08
Speaker
And I'm very collaborative with my authors.
00:28:11
Speaker
I love editing.
00:28:12
Speaker
I find it extremely fun.
00:28:13
Speaker
And it's something I'm always kind of hoping to get into the weeds with them.
00:28:21
Speaker
to be able to build something together that is market ready.
00:28:24
Speaker
I don't expect people to send me something that's like perfect as it is straight to a box.
00:28:31
Speaker
Great if they do, but that's what I expect.
00:28:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:35
Speaker
So it's a sort of, it's easier to redecorate than to be changing the foundations of the building.
00:28:44
Speaker
That's probably a good way of putting it.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:47
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:28:48
Speaker
And the way that that kind of manifests within the submission package is that the sort of the one line pitch, the synopsis, and obviously the, you know, the writing itself comes into it, the voice in that.
00:29:00
Speaker
But the reason the one line pitch and the synopsis are important is because it shows you what the foundations are, what the kind of concept is that you're working with.
00:29:08
Speaker
Exactly.
00:29:09
Speaker
And I know writers get quite stressed about synopses, like how do you fit your whole book into just a couple of pages?
00:29:17
Speaker
But what I'm looking for there is essentially, does this person understand story structure within the genre that they're writing?
00:29:26
Speaker
And if they do, great.
00:29:28
Speaker
And if I don't think they do, can I fix it or not?
00:29:31
Speaker
That's what I'm looking for in a synopsis.
00:29:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:35
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:29:36
Speaker
And here's a trickier question.
00:29:38
Speaker
Can you remember, and this is going to be super subjective, of course, as most things are in this kind of area, but can you remember, uh, what was maybe the best or maybe most striking submission that you've ever had?
00:29:51
Speaker
Ooh.
00:29:53
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:29:54
Speaker
That's a really difficult question.
00:29:57
Speaker
I've signed most of my clients from the slush pile as it were.
00:30:01
Speaker
Um, so all of those, um,
00:30:03
Speaker
really cut through i suppose okay one example that stood out to me personally um was a book which is now called definitely fine by amy lavelle who was the first client that i ever signed um in collaboration with my colleague and the main character was called hannah um and there were just a few sort of weird coincidences about this hannah and me that i was like okay i
00:30:31
Speaker
I'm intrigued by this.
00:30:32
Speaker
Let me have a look.
00:30:33
Speaker
And I absolutely fell for this book.
00:30:36
Speaker
And that was the reason that Amy Lavelle became my first official client.
00:30:42
Speaker
But that was something that stood out immediately.
00:30:47
Speaker
Weird coincidence here.
00:30:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:49
Speaker
But it was weird, but that was fine.
00:30:52
Speaker
It wasn't like, oh, this author has done something quite creepy for me specifically.
00:30:56
Speaker
It wasn't that kind of query.
00:30:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:59
Speaker
So what you're saying is don't submit something where they've written you as the main character.
00:31:03
Speaker
Please do not.
00:31:05
Speaker
I had one person who had written a book and they were like, oh, the literary agent in it is called Hannah.
00:31:10
Speaker
And I was like, oh, thanks.
00:31:12
Speaker
Why though?
00:31:16
Speaker
That is unusual.
00:31:17
Speaker
Also unusual to write a book that involves literary agents, I think.
00:31:20
Speaker
Yes, indeed.
00:31:21
Speaker
Yeah, I recently read, well, not that recently, actually.
00:31:25
Speaker
But one of the books I read in the summer was the new Emily Henry book lovers, which I love Emily Henry.
00:31:33
Speaker
I'm a huge fan.
00:31:34
Speaker
But I found it so stressful to have the main character be a literary agent.
00:31:39
Speaker
I just couldn't escape into the world.
00:31:41
Speaker
I was like, I don't want this.
00:31:44
Speaker
I want something else, not my own job.
00:31:47
Speaker
Was it an accurate portrayal as well?
00:31:49
Speaker
No.
00:31:50
Speaker
And I have many thoughts about that too.
00:31:53
Speaker
Or at least not accurate to my experience.
00:31:56
Speaker
Okay, okay, okay.
00:31:58
Speaker
Well, before we get on to the final question, which you've already answered, but we'll check in there and see what's going on.
00:32:03
Speaker
It is November 2022.
00:32:05
Speaker
You are open to submissions.
00:32:09
Speaker
I'm not currently but I will be probably in a month's time.
00:32:12
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:14
Speaker
That's just because of my own timekeeping.
00:32:17
Speaker
I had to because I hate it when I don't have time to reply to people.
00:32:22
Speaker
So I just needed to close down for a few weeks.
00:32:25
Speaker
I will be back soon.
00:32:26
Speaker
by the end of the year for sure so december january we're looking at for opening okay and your list is i mean as we've discussed eclectic um a wide range of things um but i have followed you on twitter long enough to know that you are someone who who often likes to chase a very specific thing are there any uh stories or characters or settings that you're really um hunting down at the moment oh um
00:32:56
Speaker
Honestly, I'm really in the mood for a great thriller or suspense novel.
Interest in Diverse Thrillers
00:33:02
Speaker
I've got a really robust camp of romantic fiction authors in my stable, to make a metaphor again.
00:33:12
Speaker
But I haven't found a thriller in a long time that I've been super excited about.
00:33:17
Speaker
So, you know, if you've got anti-heroines with a righteous cause, send them to me.
00:33:23
Speaker
I want to read them.
00:33:27
Speaker
And what else?
00:33:28
Speaker
I think also I'd love to find something.
00:33:31
Speaker
in the historical space.
00:33:33
Speaker
I haven't worked on one in a while.
00:33:35
Speaker
And that's one of my loves as well, because the setting can be so rich.
00:33:40
Speaker
I was talking to an editor the other day who had just acquired a historical novel set in Italy.
00:33:46
Speaker
And I thought that was really fun because so many historical fiction I have read has been set in Britain or in America.
00:33:54
Speaker
And I love to find something that is outside of
00:33:58
Speaker
those places and to teach me more about history across the world.
00:34:02
Speaker
Oh, very cool.
00:34:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:03
Speaker
Well, that's useful.
00:34:04
Speaker
I think for people submitting, hopefully they'll, some people might jump up at that and think, Oh, now I can wait for Hannah's subs to open and then send that over to her.
00:34:12
Speaker
Yes.
00:34:13
Speaker
I love con women.
00:34:16
Speaker
Love con women.
00:34:16
Speaker
That's it.
00:34:18
Speaker
And that brings us to
00:34:20
Speaker
what would be the final question, but you have already said what you would take to the desert island.
00:34:25
Speaker
And that is the tenant of wildfowl hall.
00:34:29
Speaker
Yes.
00:34:31
Speaker
Is that still the book that you would take?
00:34:33
Speaker
I think so.
00:34:35
Speaker
And if I remember rightly, my alternate was eligible by Curtis Sittenfeld.
00:34:39
Speaker
Yes, suggested by your husband.
00:34:41
Speaker
Suggested by my husband.
00:34:43
Speaker
Indeed.
00:34:43
Speaker
Well, those two books remain the two books that I have read the most.
00:34:47
Speaker
I haven't reread Tenant this year, but I have reread Eligible this year.
00:34:52
Speaker
So I think that still feels right.
00:34:55
Speaker
Okay, great.
00:34:56
Speaker
It's nice that you have stuck with those.
00:34:58
Speaker
Honestly, my one would change probably every week, maybe every day.
00:35:03
Speaker
I have lots of favourites.
00:35:04
Speaker
I do have lots of favourite books, but I think those two have stood the test of time.
00:35:10
Speaker
Okay, yeah.
00:35:10
Speaker
Well, I mean, yeah, they are classics in many ways.
00:35:13
Speaker
Well, thanks for coming back on and chatting about everything that's going on with you.
00:35:18
Speaker
Congratulations and good luck with the Agent of the Year nomination.
00:35:21
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:35:22
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:35:23
Speaker
And I really appreciate you inviting me back.
00:35:25
Speaker
It's been wonderful.
00:35:26
Speaker
Thank
Closing and Social Media Handles
00:35:27
Speaker
you.
00:35:27
Speaker
Oh, it's always a pleasure having you.
00:35:28
Speaker
And for anyone listening, if you want to keep up with what Hannah is doing, you can follow her on Twitter at Han Schofield.
00:35:35
Speaker
That's H-A-N-N Schofield.
00:35:38
Speaker
Check out more about the agency and submissions and how that all works at the LBA website.
00:35:44
Speaker
And if you are going to submit, make sure that the submissions are open for whichever agent is and that you follow all of the guidelines.
00:35:51
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss an episode of this podcast, you can follow us on Twitter at RightAndWrongUK or on Instagram and TikTok at RightAndWrongPodcast.
00:35:58
Speaker
Thanks again to Hannah and thanks to everyone listening.
00:36:01
Speaker
We'll catch you in the next episode.
00:36:05
Speaker
Thanks for hanging around to the end.
00:36:06
Speaker
Now, let me tell you about Write Mentors Hub.
00:36:09
Speaker
A subscription to Write Mentors Hub gives you access to an online community where children's writers at any stage of their writing and publishing journeys can interact, share advice, offer support, develop craft, and advance their careers.
00:36:19
Speaker
From craft talks to TikTok strategies, a shoulder to cry on while querying agents, or marketing advice for your soon-to-be-published debut, there's something for everyone.
00:36:27
Speaker
Every day is a writing day for hub members with an ever-growing range of initiatives like critique groups, workshops, pitching events, writing sprints, Q&As and many, many more.
00:36:35
Speaker
The hub is constantly expanding so go and check out the WriteMentor website for the full and up-to-date list of member-only benefits.
00:36:41
Speaker
You can get your first month completely free if you enter the coupon code RIGHTANDWRONG at the online checkout.
00:36:47
Speaker
That's W-R-I-T-E, the and symbol, W-R-O-N-G, at checkout for your first month free.
00:36:53
Speaker
So go join the Hub, Write Mentor's supportive community of storytellers, because writing can be lonely, but it doesn't need to be.