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124: Doctor or Brand? Amanda Thebe on the Midi Health Model
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In this episode, Laurel and Sarah talk with menopause educator and advocate Amanda Thebe about Midi Health, its public messaging, and what happens when menopause care becomes a venture-backed business model. Amanda shares how she first noticed Midi when a physician moved from a major hospital to join the telemedicine platform, and why she initially saw it as a promising solution to a real problem, women being dismissed, under-treated, and unable to access knowledgeable care. Over time, she describes getting “amber flags” from Midi’s marketing, especially the way hormone therapy was framed as a near-universal fix with benefits that outpaced the evidence, a pattern she contrasts with other companies she feels communicate more responsibly.
The conversation digs into the incentives created by venture capital funding and what it can do to a company’s priorities, shifting from careful medical decision-making to selling more, retaining customers longer, and expanding into profitable add-ons. They discuss Midi’s move into wellness-style offerings and unproven products, including rapamycin framed for longevity, compounded and non-evidence-based creams, and the broader drift of menopause platforms into weight loss and longevity medicine to keep people buying beyond the menopause transition. They also unpack why influential clinician-brands can develop intensely loyal followings that resist criticism, and what it signals when platforms partner with high-profile figures like Mary Claire Haver. Throughout, Amanda emphasizes that the real need is ethical, evidence-based care that doesn’t put profit before patients, and she offers practical advice for what a solid menopause appointment looks like, how to prepare, where to look for reputable resources, and how to block the noise.
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RESOURCES
Instagram: Amanda Thebe
Website: amandathebe.com
LinkedIn: Amanda Thebe
Movement Logic: Doctor vs Brand IG post
Amanda Thebe: Midi Health IG post
Instagram: Dr. Pauline Maki
Instagram: Professor Susan Davis
The Menopause Society: Provider directory and resources
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Course Promotion
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Laurel Biebersdorf, strength and conditioning coach. And I'm Dr. Sarah Court, physical therapist. With over 30 years of combined experience in fitness, movement, and physical therapy, we believe in strong opinions loosely held. Which means we're not here to hype outdated movement concepts.
00:00:15
Speaker
or to gatekeep or fearmonger strength training for women. For too long, women have been sidelined in strength training. Oh, you mean handed pink dumbbells and told to sculpt? Whatever that means, we're here to change that with tools, evidence, and ideas that center women's needs and voices. Let's dive in.
00:00:46
Speaker
Welcome to the Movement Logic Podcast. I'm Sarah Court and together with Laurel, we have a great interview for you today. We got to speak with someone we've been fangirling over for a long, long time.
00:00:58
Speaker
Before we get to it, just a quick reminder that our Barbell mini course is available to you for free. All we want in exchange is your email address. And we don't send you lots of dumb emails. We send you really good, useful, practical information, as well as updates on things that we're up to, new courses, when things go on sale, stuff like that. The Barbell Mini Course is designed to be used with barbells, but you can use dumbbells as well, if that's what you have. And it's a really good introduction to lifting weights, how to figure out what you should be lifting, how to do the three main lifts, our deadlift, squat, and bench press, and just lots of really good, useful lifting information that you need in your life. So you can sign it for that at the link in our show notes.
Amanda Thebe's Introduction and MidiHealth Discussion
00:01:46
Speaker
So today, Laura and I got to speak with Amanda Thebe. Amanda is a fitness and women's health expert. She's the author of the Amazon bestselling book, Menopocalypse, How I Learned to Thrive During Menopause and How You Can Too. With nearly 30 years of experience in the fitness industry, Amanda is a highly regarded expert on women's fitness and health.
00:02:09
Speaker
She is the co-founder and chief wellness and branding officer at Naya Health, a complete healthcare care solution for menopausal women in Canada that launched in late 2023. She is Canada's first menopause workplace educator.
00:02:23
Speaker
Through menopause advocacy and education, Amanda provides on-site or virtual presentations in the work place to improve productivity, retention, and attendance for female employees. She helps companies to normalize the conversation around menopause and provide support, which impacts 100% of their female employees.
00:02:40
Speaker
She's married with two boys and lives in Toronto, Ontario. And Amanda is an affiliated member of the Canadian and North American Menopause Society. So we really hope you enjoy this episode. We had a fantastic time talking with her.
00:02:59
Speaker
Amanda, thank you so much for joining us today. We are thrilled to get you on the pod. We have been Instagram fans of yours for a long time. So it only feels right that we finally get to talk to you in person. So thank you so much for spending some time with us this morning.
00:03:15
Speaker
Oh my God, I'm totally fangirling you both too, because i think we both have like ah a very similar, all three of us have a very similar philosophy and message that we want to get across. So I'm super happy to be here.
00:03:26
Speaker
Fantastic. We wanted to talk to you today about the company Midi Health. And we wanted to talk about it with you after you did this amazing Instagram post about them.
00:03:39
Speaker
where you are on a slide carousel ranting, as you say, and you're sharing a couple of videos from an MD and then talking about how MidiHealth is selling some really shady stuff. So when did you first become aware of MidiHealth and what were they promoting or selling at the time?
00:04:00
Speaker
You know, I've been talking about menopause now for eight to 10 years. I did my book about four years ago. I feel like I'm sort of known in the menopause space. And I have a pretty sizable community. I have a like a private Facebook group. And so I sort of don't miss very much that's happening purely because it's a smallish world and, you know, everything gets sent my way. And one of the first times I heard about Midi was through a doctor called Dr. Heather Hirsch. And she announced that she was leaving Brigham Women Hospital in Boston. And that's where i had my firstborn. So I know it well. And then she was moving to do a private practice, well, telemedicine with MIDI. And I was like, Oh, what is this?
00:04:42
Speaker
I was really curious. And it was really one of the first telemedicine options I saw out there for women. And i was like, oh, this could be one of the solutions we need. Because we know that access to care, access to medical care specifically, I should say, was is and was lacking even more so then. And so...
00:05:05
Speaker
For all that I'm not a huge fan of private health care, you know, I personally use it myself because i financially can and can't get a doctor in Toronto. That's a whole other segment. But I know that it was an option for some women. And if it meant that they didn't get sort of pushed back from their own doctor, you know, for their GPs, primary um care providers, then this was ah another genuine option. And then I thought, oh, this come on the marketplace, I suppose. Yeah.
00:05:32
Speaker
yeah So then what was your first signal that something wasn't quite right? Was it in that initial encounter or was it later as you watched them evolve as a company? Yeah, and it was later as I watched them evolve. I knew nothing about their model of care read because I'd never actually, I wasn't living in the States at the time when I hadn't like accessed it myself personally.
00:05:54
Speaker
But what I did start to get a few like amber flags, not quite red flags, was they had a blog and they were talking about things and they were talking about hormone therapy. And it became very clear to me, the CEO, I think it's Joanne or Joanna Strober, did a lot of talking points and she was sort of and putting menopause hormone therapy or HRT as they called it then as the holy grail as like the panacea as the magic pill that everybody should have and using marketing points that weren't sticking to the evidence things like it can help prevent premature death it can help with Alzheimer's et etc it was like linking things in a very vague way but enough to spark that you know need in a woman or one missing out on something
00:06:42
Speaker
And so that was actually not the model of care, but the actual messaging that was going out there. And it was something that was happening across the board, and they were just part of the problem, I thought.
Concerns with MidiHealth's Model
00:06:52
Speaker
Other than companies came on the marketplace, like Genev, for example, that was another company that came on.
00:06:58
Speaker
And I then thought, I'm going to spend some time looking at them. And I saw like stark differences. I saw Genev coming out with a model of care that was like, we will spend time with you, we will do your insurance and we will give you a menopause certified provider and we'll spend time with you and then they weren't making these false promises and if ever anything wasn't quite right I could reach out to them and their medical director Rebecca would come back and go no this is what we know and I just felt like I just didn't you know when you just get that ache you get I got the ache the ache was big and it then just got more icky
00:07:36
Speaker
so So would you say that GenEV and MidiHealth are kind of foils of each other, that you feel like GenEV is doing it the right way and MidiHealth is not? Yeah, I feel like they're two sides of the same coin. Interesting. And then there's ah there's lots of other players out there. And, you know, while i'm I'm trying not to like shit all over them completely, because I do know some women go to these companies like Midi and get the hormones they want, right? But we know now in this current marketplace, you can get anything you want.
00:08:06
Speaker
You can get anything you want. I actually tried the other day to try and get a GLP one and that I would pay for out of pocket and lied. I'm a slim woman. I don't need GLP ones.
00:08:19
Speaker
And I got it. I got it within five minutes. you wow There's a way for everyone to get anything they want now. And that's sort of what I started seeing. Women were like, oh, well, I just needed hormones. So I just went there and got them. And it was like, okay, well, what about the menopause is known as that like as symptoms of exclusion.
00:08:40
Speaker
The whole point is when you go and see a medical provider, they're supposed to do a, is it your thyroid? Is it something else with your heart? Is it something we should be looking at outside menopause? It doesn't happen. We know that doesn't happen. But the idea that you you go to someone and they just give you hormones without really looking at contraindications, without really looking at full medical profiles, all of those things to me was like, well, this isn't actual access to care. This is access to medication. right That's what but it looked like to me. And to your point, you could just completely, as you did, fully lie online. You can say whatever you want. There's nobody check there' was nobody checking that you, in fact, needed to lose weight, right? there's Because there's no way because there's no person looking at you or, you know, taking measurements in person kind of thing.
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, I know. And it does worry me a little bit. But on the flip side of that, I also have women in my community going, I'm so desperate. I'm fighting my doctor every single time I go.
00:09:40
Speaker
He doesn't believe this. He doesn't believe that. I mean, I try and do as much as I can from an advocate standpoint. I consider myself a menopause educator and advocate to say, these are the things you need to prep through your doctor's appointment. This is how you can make it successful. These are the menopause guidelines. Go in and you drive the conversation. But it's really hard. And when you're feeling like crap, how many times have you been to the doctor and just cried and went, oh, what's wrong with me? and And I think that what companies like this have done is they filled in ah like a needed gap to access to care. But when you start to then take money, and this is the bit I want to get to as well. This is the meat and bones of like my why I was I got pissed off the other day.
00:10:24
Speaker
It's because when you start to take money in, it's not access to care. It's access to what? Access to products, as access to things that aren't evidence-based. Yes, it actually is that because it has to be that when you're servicing a high-interest loan.
00:10:40
Speaker
And that's what these companies, this company, Mitty, did. What do you mean by servicing a high interest loan? What does that mean? It's so interesting because obviously I'm not a financial person, but I'm very much in that sphere because of friends and actual husband. So I understand this world fairly well.
00:10:58
Speaker
So, Midi recently made an announcement and they were really happy about this. They were on Series D venture capital investment. zeroi Series D means that they've already asked friends and family for money. They've already done angel investing, which is people who put money into the company that don't really want a return. They've done siri other series and A, B, C, and D. And now series D, the last lot of money that they got invested into the company was for $100 million. dollars And it gave the company a valuation of $1 billion. dollars And I think we need to let that sink in because that tells us so much.
00:11:41
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And despite people like Tamsin Fidel saying, I was there at the beginning, and I'm so happy to have invested in this company, and Joanne Straubach, I hope I'm getting her name right, she's Joanne Joanna, Jo, Jo, Straubach saying, we're the unicorn in this, we're doing this, we're making... i I don't think it's a good thing. I actually don't think that what they're showing is that women, the the the the narrative that they're saying is women have needed care for all this time and we need this money to give them access to care.
00:12:15
Speaker
And I think that's a false equivalency. don't think that's true. Gotcha. And then when you say it's valued at $1 billion, but the investment was, sorry, $100 million? Yeah. So million they so right I think they've had 250 million investment today. So when you say a high interest loan, you mean like they're kind of on the hook now. They've got to perform financially.
00:12:37
Speaker
So their incentives are to just make as much money as possible now. Right. Yeah, so when you get venture capital investment, I have no problem with people wanting to grow businesses, right? But you just need to know the underbelly of these things, right? So when you have venture capital companies making investments in any organization, that's not a donation. That's not them going, oh wow, we think you're great. we We would love you to do well. Off you go and just keep doing what you're doing.
00:13:07
Speaker
you They're actually looking for very, very fast levels of return and not even just like the the s slow burn. And they're not looking for low returns. It's not like 10 times the valuation. They're looking for midi to be valued at 10 billion, 50 billion. They want 10 times their money back. It's a fact, right? And there's always an exit plan. So the company when the company take in the venture capital money, they know they're going to sell it eventually or try and make this money back.
00:13:37
Speaker
So when you know that there's an incentive to have this high level of the return, that means the the The original ethical, potentially ethical model that they started with a level of care from a medical standpoint, it has to move out of that model. But the way they frame it is, well, isn't it great that they want to give us all this money so we can actually help women? But what ends up taking place is that we're actually going to sacrifice helping women to be able to give these investors 10 times a return on their initial investment. Is that right?
00:14:11
Speaker
It has to be. There's no other way to look at this. and And something's got to give, right? And so, you know, there's only so much money to be made in hormones. There's only so many women going through menopause and there's only and menopause only sort of lasts for so long. most people Most people, when they're on hormones, tend not to stay on them forever, even though people say you can stay on them long term. The statistics show that
Influencers and Ethical Considerations in Menopause Care
00:14:34
Speaker
that isn't. So they can't base their model on we're going to keep these people on hormones. So when you've got like a a finite time frame, if you say five to 10 years, you've got an infinite return on investment that you've got to fund. You need to find a way to keep those women long term. And so you know what you do?
00:14:56
Speaker
You turn um low-cost evidence-based medicine into high-yield return wellness products yeah and messaging like longevity. Yeah. Speaking of which, MIDI presents itself like a medical clinic, but it also sells wellness and other you know unproven supplements like rapamycin, which is a supposed, you know quote-unquote, longevity supplement that Rapamycin has FDA approval as an immunosuppressant to prevent organ transplant rejection in humans, but it has only been established to extend lifespan and delay age-related diseases in yeast, worms, flies, and mice.
00:15:39
Speaker
I might have some yeast in my vagina. Well, that rapamycin is going to keep it keep it there as long as you... I don't think you actually want it there, but anyway. but So what does this tell you about the company, that they're that they're happy to take evidence in yeast, worms, flies, and mice and apply it to humans?
00:15:56
Speaker
Well, it's like taking... maybe emerging evidence and using like our theories and using them as actual evidence, right? And and it's like, there's so many supplements do that. You both talk about this all the time.
00:16:12
Speaker
Like we know that we can hook people in to the idea of living longer, healthier, by upselling them like some type of magic potion. And, you know, we've seen this in so many different ways. And whereas we know as coaches that that the shit that works costs, I could do this for free. I could literally help somebody outside of their genetic makeup, help them be as healthy as they can be.
00:16:41
Speaker
for the rest of their lives, like just buy everything they own for free. and and And yet that can't be the way that a company with VC funding of $250 million dollars in total can operate. It just can't. And so we both saw, and this is sort of the thing that made me do my little rant the other day, like Dr. Spencer Nadolsky, love him. He's been ah like a long-term Instagram friend who I've never met, like about five years. We have a lot of we say I know I think we're all in the same club. but we have you have your You're like you're our long-term Instagram friend that we've never met in person now, but now we can say we havet have met you. well Well, hopefully we'll meet in real life one day. That will be nice. We have a group called Quack Watch on Instagram and we share things. Really, I...
00:17:30
Speaker
I just go to those for their expertise because obviously it's not my area. And I'm like, I need somebody who's trustworthy. And I really do find that Spencer's got a very good way of like talking about things. But when it comes to GLP one things, he is the expert. And so the fact that Midi now are going into the menopause and weight loss as a joint model, it has to be that way for them because that's a really good way for them to get added returns on their investment right and and the compounded nature of that as well means that most women can't claim that on their insurance they have to pay out of pocket it ends up being expensive and so yeah like I I just think that but the thing that
00:18:13
Speaker
you know, boiled my piss the other day, which is a typical saying of mine, was that they then announced that Dr. Mary Claire Hiver, who was, I suppose, a medfluencer or whatever she is now, because I don't view her as a medical doctor. She's just not my person. Never has been, never will be. But she's been imp employed as an age well director for me, too.
00:18:40
Speaker
Head aging boss lady. Yeah. So much to unpack there. First all, what the fuck is that? What the fuck is that? Yeah, it's a completely invented title. Yeah. let's actually Let's actually zoom out a little bit, kind of look at this ah from a broader lens. So we see that, you know, your Instagram posts sort of oriented us very well around Midi Health. We'll link that in the show notes for listeners. That the company...
00:19:08
Speaker
you write in the post, like it it had it didn't lie in the past. You know, maybe some of the things that they said in the past were truthful and helpful. That doesn't mean they aren't lying now.
00:19:19
Speaker
And we kind of see that happening too with the evolution of Mary Claire Haver, and other doctors who are a part of the quote, menoposse, who started off doing what their followers called helpful, honest work. And then many of their followers soured on them when they realized like, man, these doctors, all they're trying to do now is take my money by selling me stuff that, you know, some of their followers are wise to don't have any evidence behind them.
00:19:49
Speaker
but they persist in having, you know, millions of followers, a lot of them anyway. What what do you see or how do you see midi health impacting the menopause space?
00:20:01
Speaker
Specifically, in this in this, like, what I'm trying to say is, how do you how do you see MidiHealth, Marie Claire Haver, doctors in the menopause? Like, what is what is the connection between these people, this company, ultimately? Like, what is the hiring, for example, of Marie Claire hael Haver signal to you?
00:20:23
Speaker
their real pick that scab and see what's underneath because like it doesn't feel like just a meeting of minds does it it doesn't feel like just this like idea that we're all in the same we're all in the same boat we all want to help women and I honestly do believe that you know what happens is you you nailed it the other day with your post about doctors becoming brands it's exactly that right like I actually for I never been able to follow Mary Claire Haver from the get-go for actual personal reasons that um I can't really share but it was to do with cyber bullying of a very good friend before and then I also lived in Texas right near at Galveston and was following her Galveston diet and was like look that's nasty That's nasty. And I was like, so I'm going to keep an eye on her and then met her in person, solidified my viewpoint. I'm a nothing to her. I'm like an ant underneath an elephant as far as she's concerned. But regardless, my own viewpoint is that I don't believe she's a good a good person. i don't believe she's a good player in the menopause space. Mm-hmm.
00:21:34
Speaker
She wanted to be the person that helped women. And what happened is she did that. She spoke to women when nobody else was listening. me Obviously, others the space were talking about it. But she spoke about it from an air of authority. And when a doctor comes on, similar to Dr. Louise Newsome in the UK, and somebody who has ignored you in the medical environment outside for years...
00:22:01
Speaker
suddenly someone's saying things and you recognize yourself and you feel heard for the first time, then you're going start building up a loyal fan base. And I get that. And I don't think the honest should be on any of the women who follow them. I think that it's so easy for these people to come on and say, I know the answer that nobody else can tell you. i actually have read the data. I know you don't have time. i am able to provide you with the solutions that nobody else will. Yeah.
00:22:30
Speaker
and And those that appeal to authority, i hate the idea that fallacy that costs their doctors, we have to listen to them. We're allowed to challenge them and we should, right? And then when you start to get famous and popular and then you can, you know, realize you can monetize that. I'm not against people making money, but when it comes in and and in unethical ways,
00:22:56
Speaker
Then I have a real problem with that because when you're selling with weighted vests and turmeric and whatever other supplements that she's selling, then I i like i want to push back on that because...
00:23:13
Speaker
There's so many other ways of doing it. And if people want to buy them, fine. I'm not trying to like i'm not trying to diminish any woman's experience or tell them they've wasted their money. But what I am saying is this is really sophisticated manipulation.
00:23:28
Speaker
Really sophisticated manipulation. And we do not need all of the bells and whistles that they're selling. In fact, in the big scope of everything of menopause, this is what they're selling you. And that's what they want you to buy. And this is the stuff that will help you. And this is stuff that's free. This is the stuff that, you know, it's difficult. It's hard to stick with.
00:23:49
Speaker
But it doesn't, it's not going to make them any money. Right. And so I'm pretty jaded. Obviously, you can tell this. And it's because I come from a, like a health and wellness coaching background. And I know the things that work. And and I also, I'm okay to change my mind. Right. I was a ah ah big follower of Stacey Sims back in the day because nobody else was talking about human physiology in women.
00:24:13
Speaker
Until I like started looking into it more myself, I just was like, oh, actually, it really isn't very robust at all. There's menopause throws a spanner in the works and it's really shitty trying to exercise and lose weight and do all of the things. And it's really big hurdles to jump over. But the actual science, the best science,
00:24:37
Speaker
stands, stands really solidly. And so it was like, i feel like i keep having these huge letdowns and disappointments. yeah and and And I just think women ah deserve the truth. But when you're on social media, just a few minutes every day as women are, they're going to sell those miracle hair, have a sin, I have to have a weighted vest.
00:24:57
Speaker
And 20 fucking people have just walked by my house wearing them. So people are listening, right? Yeah, they're listening. Yeah. It reminds me of... yeah it It reminds me of the stories I hear from my seven-year-old daughter when she comes home from elementary school about, you know, the kids that don't have friends or maybe, you know, are bullied here and there and like how easy it would be for somebody to, you know, be friends with somebody who doesn't have a lot of friends, right? And then suddenly start, you know, taking their lunch money, right? Like Mary Claire Haver,
00:25:27
Speaker
is talking to us. No one's been talking to us in the past, talking about our problems, offering us solutions. I want to be your friend, but I also want to take all your money.
00:25:38
Speaker
So I'm going to make you think I'm helping you by selling you shit that doesn't actually do anything for your menopause symptoms. And it's going to cost you a lot of money. And it's going to be really easy for me to, you know, make a lot of money off of you. I mean, it it is really ah an incredibly sophisticated age old manipulation technique that we should be familiar with by now, but it's hard to spot it.
00:26:01
Speaker
i believe Because because we're in this we're in this new era of like menopause awareness, right? As you said, there's there's a gap and it's being filled, right? By these grifters. And we need to take a second. Like 10 years from now, we'll be smarter. But right now,
00:26:17
Speaker
we're pretty stupid about it and we're letting it happen a lot. And when I say we, I mean just women at large. It's cyclical. We see this playbook. It is the wellness wankery playbook. Like it's gone on since a snake oil salesman of like Midwest America, right? Like, like I've got it. Nobody else knows it. And, and, and you, you're reaching out to really vulnerable women that I like personally look back at my own menopause. Like, and that was like, fuck.
00:26:44
Speaker
can't do the math because I'm menopausal. But like 10 years ago whatever, I started going through perimenopause and I'm in menopause now. and And I was like, didn't recognize myself. i was hurting. i had depression. I hated myself. I hated people. i just wanted to find Amanda again. And I would have done anything.
00:27:05
Speaker
anything to feel better. And when you take a vulnerable set of women and you know they've potentially got higher disposable income because we're in our midlife, you know, the middle class is thriving type thing. And so you've got that. And then, you know, their their mates are all doing it. And you so you've got the peer pressure. I feel like it's a really easy grift to get into because I think so. And I look at like the the sort of platform I've built and I know I could have made a ton of money on this. I've had so many opportunities. But from an ethical standpoint, it just makes me balk, right? I actually when you don't know how these people sleep at night.
00:27:47
Speaker
yeah Were you also not a bully in elementary school? also Anyone's lunch money, Laurel. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think it does kind of come down to ethics at the end of the day. And like, are you, i know it's not so simple, but sometimes it is, right? Are you a good person?
00:28:03
Speaker
Are you generally pretty honest? Or are you morally flexible? Yeah. I mean, one of the things that Laurel and I both see a lot, I mean, I'm sure you get this as well. I get offers every single day in my email inbox to partner with, to ah promote some sort of, i I get the GLP ones now. I'm like, I'm not even a fucking medical doctor, but you know, I get the supplements and the turmeric and the sleep aid and all that kind of stuff. And to your point, it would be so easy. The movement, we could be fricking rich, Laurel and I, if we decided to just start promoting the way that, you know, a lot of other influencers who are sort of following in the steps of these bigger six, you know, quote unquote success,
00:28:42
Speaker
wellness grifter models like Mary Claire Haver and Vonda Wright and, you know, all the rest of them. um I really, i just have to go back and say, thank you so much for saying the phrase wellness wankery, because I think that's going to be my new absolute favorite. And I'm going to start saying it because it is wellness wankery.
00:29:01
Speaker
and And, you know, lael Laurel said something that I sort of want to like go back to as well. And it was like, You know, it's that it's a model that's well played out. It's not new. These people do this on rinse and repeat and menopause will come and go and something else will come. We called that the menopause people would move into longevity. if They had to have something else. right But I actually don't know that Everyone does see that because it's so sophisticated and so easy to sort of get caught up in it. Yeah. yeah Right. we've We've all been caught up in something or other. And, you know, we we ultimately find people that we we trust. You may never have met them, but we trust them. And so if that person then says, look, it works for me.
00:29:49
Speaker
I really, truly believe in it. Then chances are people are going to buy into it. Yeah. and But it's no different to your best mate from school, Facebook Messenger, and you say, I haven't seen you in ages. Would you like to get a coffee? You can really sell an Arbonne. Right, yeah. its i mean And I just think that, like, the... um the the onus can't be on the the person who buys into it but what happens and I wonder what you think about this is when I look at these people and there's like a a system that happens it almost becomes cult-like like it almost becomes like evangelical in the in the following because if you call somebody out even in an ethical way like I have
00:30:32
Speaker
I don't care for the person, Mary Claire Hever, but I also don't wish her any ill. I'm like, I've got no feelings on her. I just know she's not my person. But but the people that will literally die on a hill for her, I'm like, wow, that's a thing. Like in the social media era, they will believe without question what these role models say to them. Yeah. Well, I think there's there's a big component of...
00:30:57
Speaker
what has happened in this country with people who voted for Trump, where, you know, no matter how much other people might tell you, here's the mounds of evidence of, you know, bad, illegal, criminal, unethical things that he's done.
00:31:15
Speaker
They don't want to believe that they ever picked, made a bad choice, right? They don't want to believe in themselves that they picked the wrong guy.
Influencer Criticism and Ethical Responsibilities
00:31:23
Speaker
So it's very common to double down in the face of any kind of adversity towards that person that you have idolized. And I think that's a big part of what's going on here. Mary Claire Haver or Vonda Wright or whichever of them kind of stepped in as almost like a savior when nobody else was helping them, when their own doctors were like, I don't know what you're talking about, like to your point and and actually helped them.
00:31:46
Speaker
And it's it's sort of like Like in that evangelical way where the it's it's the sort of born again ones that are often the most noisy, right? So it's it's the sort of people who have been helped once by this person are now no longer willing to believe or not capable of of changing their mind about it. Because then it suggests something about what they used to believe about this person, that they made a mistake.
00:32:10
Speaker
Right. And so I think that's why we see so much pushback in the face of criticism. I mean, Laurel and I, at this point, it's sort of like a bingo card where you're like, oh, somebody called us mean girls. Oh, somebody called us a bully. Oh, somebody said we're jealous. Like the answers are very standard that we get when we get pushback from people who criticize our you know standpoint where we're trying to provide evidence to say like, hey, maybe these people in the mental posse are not actually on your side.
00:32:35
Speaker
you know Right. And I think that there's nothing wrong with this whole women should support women argument, which is such bullshit. Like you can, you can, women can be grifters too. And actually like, you know, all of these women that are taking advantage of women are just misogynistic as well. Like they're, they're, they're actually perpetuating the problem. And that's where I feel like the sort of MIDI model comes in. I think it maybe started off as something that people really want, they, they really wanted to help women. But it now has become such a juggernaut that they've medicalized them. Sorry, they've moved away from a medical model to profiteering from the the wellness space and then introducing predatory.
00:33:20
Speaker
sort of like marketing tactics to to get people to buy in. And so I'm seeing um ads all over the place now. and And I don't say I'm not interested because I want to see them all over like Facebook usually because that's where all of us – like middle-aged women hang out really right and um and it can be like for example I saw Vonda Wright the other day and she was saying these are the five things that made my skin awesome and this is why I look so brilliant and this is why I'm gorgeous etc and then it literally was a CTA call to action for midi and their estrogen first group oh no no sorry that was alloy and then she did another one for midi so well whatever they're all the same to me that But, you know, you've got them selling things like arousal cream. It used to be called screen cream, which is a non-evidence-based compounded cream. And I think I'm going to just check now. It retails for $68.
00:34:15
Speaker
And it's supposed to sort of give you your oomph back in the bedroom. And I'm just like, you're selling unproven cream. like products to women yeah and and you're not trying to help them because if you were there would be a a stance where you would say to the board of directors we've got to draw the line somewhere we know we need to fit pay you back but we can't do it this way we can't sell glp um oral drops because we know actual factually that they don't work right so we're gonna have to lie to you to get your money
00:34:47
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they have to lay and lie to you. Yeah. To your point. So they have, i was, i was going on Mitty's website and I mean, just from a website design,
00:34:59
Speaker
standpoint, it's a bit confusing to try to find whatever you're trying to find. It's not it's not hard to buy anything, but it's hard to sort of, now I found it a little hard to navigate. But anyway, they have this, what they call custom RX, right? RX stands for prescription, obviously, where they are selling what they call, quote, science-backed prescription solutions.
00:35:18
Speaker
And that includes, as you mentioned, the things like this estrial cream for your face, which is not science backed at all, but you can buy it directly from Meaty with no prescription, right? Even though they're saying it's a custom prescription, you don't need a prescription. So it's very, they're using a lot of medical language, I think, to make it seem more, more you know, evidence-based. It's $149 three-month supply.
00:35:39
Speaker
supply you know, and this is going to your point, like there's, there's these huge gaps between what media is saying, like the GLP one drops that we know don't work, the Estriol cream for your face that has no you know supportive evidence. And actually the cream on your face potentially could be dangerously increasing your systemic estrogen. We don't know, but everyone's like, Oh, but she looks better. So I'm going to slap it on my face. But we see these huge gaps between what what's shown to be proven in, in science and in data and what they're,
00:36:10
Speaker
saying are we Can we assume that that is just to you know for their bottom line to pay back their investors? i mean has to Why else would they be doing it, right? How can it not be about the money? How can it not be about the money? Because because that's all... Like, if this company was really... Maybe maybe they are doing this, so maybe I'm speaking out of turn. Are they investing a billion dollars into research where it is lacking, where there are gaps? Are they?
00:36:43
Speaker
Because that would be something that would actually... be put them up a notch in my book, I would be like, you know what, i take it all back. You're actually making this money because you want to further women's health science because the current administration has literally thrown that away. Remember we had that big White House, Joe Biden, Joe Biden, he did that big um investment and people like Pauline Mackey were in it and it was amazing. And then that just disappeared with this administration. And so I'm just like, if you're not doing that, then...
00:37:14
Speaker
then that's fine, be open and and honest about it. And I don't think this like this honestly doesn't come from a point of jealousy for me. This literally comes from an ah optical standpoint. And I'm like, I've seen in 10 years, I've just literally seen this massive shift. No women were getting any help at all.
00:37:33
Speaker
There was no hormone therapy being prescribed. Women were struggling and it wasn't fair and they were suffering and they didn't need to. And then the conversation started and women kept feeling a little bit like empowered and I loved it. And there was grassroots movements and especially in the UK, I'm pretty well connected there. don't if you've noticed I'm British, but there's a bunch of my friends there and they were doing campaigns to parliament to get education for doctors within the workplace, within schools. And it worked. We've started it here in Canada and in the US. And so there was momentum that was really heartwarming and fulfilling. And then um and then like it was like, but all women should be on hormone therapy. And so I started to see this pendulum shift. And was like, well, that's not true. We know that's not true. More women should have the opportunity to talk about it.
00:38:25
Speaker
More women probably should be on it than are if the if the percentage is low, 5% 6% of the population, whatever.
Hormone Therapy and Menopause Myths
00:38:32
Speaker
But like, it doesn't mean that all women should on it or can be on it. And so having this middle ground conversation with women, it doesn't make you like famous. It doesn't give you lots of clicks. It doesn't grow your account to millions of followers. But when you have someone that says, oh, they've been lying to you the whole time. actually, hormone therapy will make you live longer. And it's going to stop cardiovascular disease, and you won't get Alzheimer's. And I'm just like, what the hell? Where did that come from? And I'm looking through all of the guidelines, and I'm reaching out to all of the experts, they're like, no, it's not true. It's not true. We don't have the voice or the platform to be able to counteract that. We don't have the don't have the money.
00:39:17
Speaker
yeah You don't have the venture capitalist money. So speaking of which, yeah, the pendulum, right, the exaggerations that happen. What are some other claims that you think are especially prone to that type of exaggeration in the menopause space?
00:39:32
Speaker
Oh, well, I think that ah that that's some of the main ones is that, you know, the ah there was a long time for a long time, Dr. Louise Newsome, I don't follow her anymore. Maybe she blocked me. I don't know, would say all women should be on hormone therapy because it's essentially going to make us live forever. And that data isn't there.
00:39:52
Speaker
Right. The data isn't there to say that it reduces our lifespan. It can reduce the impact of all cause mortality. But as soon as you come off it, that sort of stops. We do know that it helps with bone health. We do know that it helps with vasomotor symptoms. Mm We do know that women that have high incidences of this or motor symptoms, actually hot flashes and your night sweats and stuff, might have a higher risk of Alzheimer's. But that works just very much emerging. Dr. Paulie Mackey is your goat for that. like she's one of the She's the one that does the research on that. That's her area of expertise. And she says equivocally equivocally that Alzheimer's
00:40:32
Speaker
If every woman who went through menopause got Alzheimer's, because that's another thing, then every woman wouldn't live till 81. And if we look at the numbers of women to treat who take MHT, menopause hormone therapy, it would be one in 2004 women.
00:40:50
Speaker
So only one woman would reduce her risk. And so when you have the the people that are running the data saying this, and then you've got the the big voices in the social space saying, oh, that's not true. You really, you can reduce your risk by 30%. That's not what the data is saying. And and it's...
00:41:08
Speaker
Why should we expect women on the ground to go, oh, well, let me just go to PubMed and try and look through that. It's difficult. I find that difficult. I'll read through things and go, have got that right? Did I actually understand that properly?
00:41:22
Speaker
I have the privilege of being able to ask these people directly. And so that's what I feel like my my job is. but For me, hormone therapy is something that should be discussed to see if you're a candidate, but there are absolute contraindications and there are people that don't do well on it. Actually, that was me. It made me basically have suicidal ideology. It was the worst period of my life. Wow.
00:41:46
Speaker
and um And there's some women that don't need it, don't want to go on it, right? So they're not going to die young. So that's one of the the things I try and find the middle ground on. I think other non-hormonal medications get vilified when they shouldn't.
00:42:02
Speaker
You know, if a woman goes to the doctor and he gives her antidepressants for her depression, is that wrong? In my mind, if they've gone through this exclusionary diagnosis and they found out that she potentially can't have hormone therapy, then antidepressants are going to be the thing that are going to help her along with the other protocols.
00:42:23
Speaker
We start thinking in black and whites and we start using catchphrases to replace like critical thinking where we're like, oh, she just got prescribed head meds instead of the hormone therapy that she needs. And that's what's constantly happening, right? We're always being psychologized by these doctors. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down, right? The outrage button gets hit in our head.
00:42:42
Speaker
And we stop thinking through like, the the fact that this is all individual, right? It is. And when you've got someone like Peter Oteo saying the biggest travesty in women's health was the 2002 WHI study, what he's basically saying then is that every woman should have the opportunity to be on it. It's still a pharmaceutical drug. And I think people need to remember that you're not just replacing your hormones. And so it has impacts on all of the body and you may or may not do well on it. And if you don't do well on it, does that mean you failed? Because that's how it feels. If you're a breast cancer or a cancer survivor that has an absolute contraindication, does that mean you're less of a person? Well, it's how it's framed. And then when you add in the longevity conversation, you could live forever, but you've just been recovering from cancer, Sarah. Yeah. Like how does that land? Right. Right. It lands very poorly, yeah I'll tell you that much. It's so disgusting. yeah And I'm not a doctor and I see that and I'm like, what are these doctors thinking? What are they doing? Yeah. Like, it's terrible.
00:43:47
Speaker
Sorry. Could you, you mentioned a doctor and you said they're the goat. Could you repeat their name? yeah and Well, she's a professor and a doctor. um Her name is Pauline Mackey. Yeah. I share her stuff all the time. She is so impeccable with her science communication. Yeah. She makes complex subjects around research in me in the menopause space very easily understandable. We should link her page in the show notes. She's a well wealth. know She's just gone on to social media. I had the privilege. I used to have a podcast of getting her on the podcast nice and then meeting her last year. And she came up to me and um this is me he's not self-aggrandizing, but she said, Amanda, I love you so much. of my favorite person on Instagram. And I was like, oh my God, but you're Pauline Mackey. Yeah.
00:44:33
Speaker
What she recognized was a knowledge translation and communication that they didn't have access to. And I was like, get on social media. She didn't have a massive following, but she's on it now. yeah And when she hears these sound bites, like there's ah ah an Australian and social media influencer, and I don't know her ah background, I've got to be honest, but she's doing some Alzheimer's research and her name is Louise Nicola.
00:44:59
Speaker
She was on e a podcast recently with and Stephen Bartlett, the diary of a CEO, another problem. And she said, we know that hormone therapy can reduce the risk of Alzheimer's by 30%.
00:45:14
Speaker
And it's all linked to hot flashes. And so Pauline does a video and goes, no, it's my research. Thank you. Let me tell you about it. And it's with testosterone. We've got people saying that testosterone is a missing piece of the puzzle, brain health, muscle health, you name it. i and And then we have researchers like Dr. Susan Davis, who is an osteoarthritic professor. Again, this is her 30 year window of research. And she said, no,
00:45:43
Speaker
No, we cannot. read I had a hypothesis 30 years ago, and I've spent 30 years trying to reproduce it, and I can't say that it does anything other than potentially, not definitely, increasing in low libido in women.
00:45:57
Speaker
yeah And then I think Kelly Casperson is a big proponent of testosterone, saying it can do all of these things, quoting this preliminary finding that's 30 years old. And Dr. Susan is like, no, you can't do that. But you can. You can if you want people to listen to you and you want to create fear or the idea of missing out.
00:46:18
Speaker
Yeah. you Yeah.
Misleading Menopause Narratives
00:46:20
Speaker
Just real quick, that Luisa Nicola sat down with Kelly Kasperson and they were having a conversation on someone's podcast. And that's where the viral claim that menopause eats your brain came from was this post between those two. Did you see, did you happen to see that post that was just all over the internet several months ago where, well, One of them, I think I might be getting this wrong, but I i believe it was both of them on the same show.
00:46:44
Speaker
One of them said that menopause eats your brain. And therefore, it was probably Luis Nicola, at least because therefore you need to be on menopause. Hormone therapy to to preserve your brain to make it so that it doesn't get eaten.
00:46:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's crazy. Yes, I did a post on it and I quoted Pauline Mackey in that. okay And the idea that like, how is that helpful to women? When you say something like that, what is the reason for you saying that? Louise Nicola has a creatine supplement. Maybe it's for that because I know she talks about creatine a lot. It might be that. I don't know. a Follow the money is what I said. Creatine, yeah. Maybe it was creatine.
00:47:23
Speaker
But that to me is such an unethical way to talk to women and so disrespectful to our intellect as well. Like it's just, that's not okay. And I think as well, like if you look at the the sciences, we know we know that the brain changes shape and structure through the perimenopause, through as it shuts down those reproductive pathways and then it sort of does a rebound, regrowth in the three to five windows post-menopause. so there's adaptations that naturally happen. When you speak to anyone that's sort of an expert in this field, which I have, they said that happens across your lifespan.
00:48:00
Speaker
If any of us have children, we know that when we're pregnancy, we might as well just be like just sucking our thumb the whole time. We can't do anything. We can't make any decisions. Our brain changes as well then. And so, yeah, you might struggle with brain fog. You might become forgetful. You might struggle with things like depression and anxiety. And then suddenly they all start in the brain, but they typically sort of resolve themselves in the post-menopausal years.
00:48:25
Speaker
And then if they don't, go and see a doctor. Make sure it's nothing else. And I just think that that's a responsible message to women. Why would you possibly say the brain eats itself? yes It's so disgraceful. Yeah, it really. Disgraceful is the perfect word for it. It is. And it's it's also, if your goal is science communication, what's scientific about saying menopause eats your brain?
00:48:52
Speaker
Right. Like nothing at all. So that can't be the goal of that statement. Right. That's when we have to say, OK, what is and and look at things with this critical eye. and And to your point, you know, people like you, people like what we're doing, there's lots of people on the Internet that are that are working to push back. But that shouldn't be the onus of of doing that work shouldn't be on the general population.
00:49:13
Speaker
Right. and You know, my feeling is that the onus is on the individual to behave ethically and responsibility. It's really funny because I remember, I've just remembered it just takes me a while to recall things, but I remember both of them fought back and one of them, Louise Nicola said, all I was saying is that we lose some of our gray matter and that's all it is. And, and, and I was just trying to dumb it down into ways that people understood. So first all, they think we're stupid. And then Kelly Casperson sits in her car and says, I don't know why you've all got your knickers in a twist. You need to calm down. And, you know, we're only trying to, like, relay the information to you in ways that people can understand. That's why puts her estrogen, vaginal estrogen on her face.
00:49:56
Speaker
By the way, just a little message. Your vagina's not your face. It's not. Just in case you didn't know, you've got two different sets of lips. Don't use the same products on Well, it's also, I mean, to get a little scientific for the and for a moment, the epithelial cells, your skin cells are very different than the, like the line, the inside of your mouth is more similar to the inside of your vagina than your face. So...
00:50:22
Speaker
ah you know, I could come out with a new product. and I'm like, no no, no, don't put it on your face. Put it on the inside of your mouth. And then it's going to push out and make your skin, right? You know, I mean, there's any kind of bullshit I could make up. yeah Estrogen toothpaste. Hey. was going clean. That's it.
00:50:38
Speaker
Estrogen toothpaste for gum disease. You heard it here first, people. do not copy I'm copywriting
Ethical Responsibilities and Systemic Changes
00:50:43
Speaker
that idea right now. The three of us are going to be fucking billionaires. Estrogen mascara. Hey. makes your eyelashes longer. Estrogen deodorant. It makes you not smell.
00:50:53
Speaker
I mean, you could fucking put it in anything at this point. Yeah. So, you know, on this topic, what, what responsibility, I mean, think we've answered it sort of, but like, what responsibility do you feel that influencers and clinicians have when they, they partner with or promote these sort of menopause platforms? Yeah. But I think the ones that join up with them know what they're doing.
00:51:12
Speaker
They do. Yeah. right You look at Alloy Telemedicine, and I don't know what their services are like, but I do know that they sell a whole ton of products and they have medical directors on there that are very vocal in the social media space. And I just i look at them and go, why do how are you feeling okay about this?
00:51:31
Speaker
putting evidence-based information out there you're talking about you know people of color they're experiencing menopause or breast cancer survivors they're experiencing menopause while also promoting a company that has non-evidence-based solutions and so they know what they're doing and there are so many really good doctors out there that are towing the line and that are being more vocal and i love it yeah And and that you don't have to personally attack people to um get your message across. But it's really important that I don't want this to be my job any more than you do. But I think it's really important if you know something to be accurate and you want to put the information out there, you can. And it's not being a mean girl. It's actually just reassuring people and telling them what the science and the data is showing. and And just sort of like to sort of add to that as well, like,
00:52:23
Speaker
Women are still saying, but I still can't get help. And let's see, she's the only person answering the questions that I want. We have a huge medical problem. We do, right? And, and, but this isn't the answer.
00:52:35
Speaker
yeah i just Sorry, I just don't believe it is. I think the answer is an ethical model of care that doesn't put profit before customers. hmm. that doesn't put their return on investment loan payments before medical ethics. And I think we need more doctors trained. We need GPs and primary caregivers to be our first point of contact because menopause isn't that complicated for most people so that the menopause experts can have the complex cases, right? It shouldn't have to be a paid-for service. It should be within our insurance brackets or in Canada under our our universal healthcare. Yeah, about that. I live out there, but they're not there yet.
00:53:16
Speaker
You're mentioning a lot of the structural changes that would need to take place probably for a lot of us and in the United States for that to be a reality for most of us. And i wholly agree. And it seems like an insurmountable thing to overcome, but I think we need to continuously push for it. And i wanted to you know, extend the the the question about, you know, good menopause care now to a patient's individual experience. Like what does good menopause care look like when you're in the, in the
Access and Affordability of Menopause Care
00:53:47
Speaker
doctor's office? When you get a chance to be heard. Yeah. Cause I think statistically 15 minutes is the appointment time. i think it depends where you are, but like as an average, so you get eight minutes of talking time because you want to get spoken to as well. And so to me at at the ideal appointment is that before the appointment that happens, you're already prepared. Hmm.
00:54:08
Speaker
I'm working on a menopause app. It's an educational app that has a how to prepare for your doctor's appointment. And I did it with a doctor. I was like, if somebody came to you, what would make their appointment successful? What would it be? She's like, monitor their symptoms, like frequency, intensity. Give me ah a snapshot of what that looks like. Tell me other medications you're on. Tell me life's quality of life issues. Just get a snapshot and say, you know, last week I had 40 hot flashes and I didn't sleep for five nights. And my joints ache five hours out of the day. Like go in with actual tangible information. Yeah.
00:54:43
Speaker
Data, yeah. Data, data, potato, but potato. And then and then actually say, I would like to have a conversation about menopause hormone therapy. And this is the medical guidelines because they're available to clients.
00:54:56
Speaker
You can take them in, highlight the bit that applies to you. And if the doctor says you're actually not a candidate because of these valid reasons, they say, well, what are my other options? Right.
00:55:07
Speaker
Right. And then be prepared to say to the doctor, if you can't help me, I need a referral. Right. And so that would be the ideal conversation. But knowing that a lot of doctors aren't comfortable treating menopause, it can be very challenging. But on the flip side of it, the menopause, the crowd of doctors that are online, almost all of them have private clinics or concierge services or subscription based medical models that come to about five thousand dollars a year.
00:55:37
Speaker
and I think a single visit with Mary Claire Haver is four figures. oh Yeah. Right, Sarah? Yes. Although I think also she no longer sees, i I'm going to show my bias about her. I don't think that's enough money for her anymore because she's not doing it. You can go see one of her specialists yeah at her clinic. You don't see her directly. You don't see her. figures Yes. not b And to see the specialist, I think it's like $1,500 or something crazy like that. like you know it's It's moving towards the Peter Atiyah model of longevity of 150 grand a year. They're all merging into that space. And so if we're really talking about access to care,
00:56:14
Speaker
but That's 2% or 3% of the people that can afford that. Real access to care are the women that used to live near in me in Texas in the suburbs that couldn't even get a bus to go to their doctor yeah or didn't have a doctor and had to go to Planned Parenthood. But that closed down. Real access to care is women of color, indigenous folk, people on low income, low education.
00:56:34
Speaker
That's the, and these people, they're not on Instagram watching to Mary Claire Haver going, oh yeah, I'll go to her clinic. It just drives me crazy that when you look at the whole social determinants of health, menopause is a privileged medicine at the moment. Yeah, it is.
Future Trends and Reliable Resources
00:56:49
Speaker
And and ah what um something i'm I'm picking up on a lot from this conversation, which hadn't occurred to me yet, is this trend toward, okay, menopause therapy becomes longevity therapy, right? So we've got to extend the lifespan of our product offers. So once you're past the tough period in that transition to menopause, now we're going to sell you, right? We're going pivot and we're going sell you on longevity, quote unquote, medicine. And so, yeah, let's watch that space because I think yeah that is a trend we are definitely seeing already and it's probably just going to get worse.
00:57:28
Speaker
That's exactly it. You've nailed it. And it's because they can't lose the customers. They have to watch the hook. And the hook is that. blue hook like that yeah Just put different bait on it. Right. Yeah. Keep keep fishing for those big fish. Right.
00:57:42
Speaker
Yeah. So if you could, if there's one thing that you could say directly to, to women who are trying to navigate their menopause in this like increasingly noisy menopause marketplace,
00:57:55
Speaker
world, what what would you want them to know? Like what's the sort of bottom line for women trying to figure out what kind of menopause care they need, I would say? It's hard that one, isn't it? So definitely, I think go to reliable sources and that actually starts at the menopause societies, right? They have good resources. So go to the menopause societies and they do have consumer-based downloads, which make it easier to read. If you want to find a menopause doctor, the menopause.org, which is the the menopause society's website, has a list of all of their menopause certified providers, which is a good place to start. and But there's, ah I mean, I don't think all of the telemedicine companies are bad, but I think that, like, ask around, ask your friends. I mean, I know people that go to Midian have had really good care, but I've also had a lot of women telling me that they don't have very good care. They get sold and stuff. The upsell is something you don't need. Menopause, hormones are very cheap.
00:58:55
Speaker
um They should be covered by your insurance if you have insurance and they should be covered by Medicare, Medicaid, because these are generic drugs. And that's why they don't make a lot of money, you see, because they're generic. Yeah. And so just try and get those reputable sources and then just fill your knowledge bucket as well. Like actually find out, like if you're a candidate, if you've got other health issues, like if you have had cancer, speak to your oncologist, just say, what type of conversation should I be having with my doctor about going through menopause?
00:59:27
Speaker
Right. And there are so many options for women. There's not a single woman should suffer because there is a ton of information out there. And then block all of the noise out. Like literally go onto social media and block, block, block, block block because it hurts you. Yeah.
00:59:46
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, one of the things that we've discovered is that every time we push back against a grifter, they block us. So it's sort of like they're doing our job for us. We don't have to block them because they just don't like us. So they immediately block us.
00:59:57
Speaker
The preemptive thing. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Well, I don't want to take up too much of your time. And I think, Laurel, you have to get going pretty
Conclusion: Navigating Menopause Information
01:00:04
Speaker
soon anyway. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Where can people find you, Amanda?
01:00:08
Speaker
and I have a website, amandafeeb.com. It's just my name. and But I'm most active on LinkedIn because I do a lot of workplace talks and on so on social media, on Instagram. It's just put my name and it's easy to find. I've never met anyone active on LinkedIn. So this is fun thing. I don't want to be. And i have to really...
01:00:28
Speaker
dumbed down my like model my husband's on there and he's like you can't say that word go in and edit it you can't say that word I'm like okay bring a little Instagram to LinkedIn but I go on there to watch companies like me I want to see and they're very active on there because they're active in the investors okay interesting all right all right well we'll make sure we have links to all of those in our show notes yes It was really great chat. I love that. um I mean, I think all we're doing is sharing like the reality of where we are. Like it's a multi-billion dollar industry now. It's not just a place for menopause care. And I think if women know that, then they can have that skeptical lens on and hopefully it'll help them make better choices. Yeah.
01:01:13
Speaker
Thank you so much.
01:01:20
Speaker
All right, everyone, we really hope you enjoyed that episode. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe if you are listening on Apple Podcasts. We also now are on YouTube, so you can head over there, our page channel.
01:01:36
Speaker
I think it's called a channel. Our channel is called The Movement Logic. So you can also access not only all of our podcast episodes, but other content that we will be posting on our YouTube page. Of course, if that barbell mini course sounds interesting to you, if you're feeling inspired now to get strong, go ahead and sign up at the link in show notes and we will send you that course.
01:01:59
Speaker
You can always follow us on Instagram as well at The Movement Logic and we will see you in two weeks.