Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Anne Bujold
194 Plays6 years ago
Anne Bujold combines metalsmithing and blacksmithing techniques with alternative materials such as felt, ribbon, and plastics.
In her sculpture, animals are agents examining the spaces between definitions, that fertile ground where new forms emerge.
Bujold is currently the Artist-In-Residence for the Metals Department at the Appalachian Center for Craft in Smithville, TN. She received her MFA from the Craft and Material Studies Department at Virginia Commonwealth University (2018) and BFA from Oregon College of Art and Craft (2008).
Previously based in Portland, Oregon, she operated Riveted Rabbit Studio, a custom metal fabrication business.
Bujold has taught at Virginia Commonwealth University (VA), Oregon College of Art and Craft (OR), The Multnomah Art Center (OR), The Donkey Mill Art Center (HI), The Appalachian Center for Craft (TN), and Arrowmont School of Arts and Crafts (TN).
https://annebujold.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host, Anne Valente. Editor and producer, Peter Bauer.
Introducing Anne Bujold
00:00:16
Speaker
You're listening to something rather than nothing podcast and this week we have Anne Bujold. And we got an artist statement from Anne which really gives a lot of her background and
00:00:29
Speaker
It'll introduce you to her blacksmithing technique and how she does her art. She combines metalsmithing and blacksmithing techniques with alternative materials such as felt ribbon, plastics. And in her sculpture, animals are agents examining the spaces between definitions that fertile ground where new forms emerge.
Blacksmithing in Contemporary Art
00:00:54
Speaker
Bajold is currently the artist in residence for the metals department
00:00:57
Speaker
at the Appalachian Center for Craft in Smithville, Tennessee. She received her MFA from the Craft and Material Studies Department at Virginia Commonwealth University and a BFA from the Oregon College of Art and Craft. Previously based in Portland, Oregon, she operated Riveted Rabbit Studio, a custom metal fabrication business. Zold has taught at Virginia Commonwealth University, the Oregon College of Arts and Crafts,
00:01:28
Speaker
the Multnomah Arts Center, the Donkey Mill Arts Center, the Appalachian Center for Craft, and the Eremont School of Arts and Crafts. We really want to welcome Anne Bajol to something rather than nothing podcast.
Craft vs. Fine Art Debate
00:01:55
Speaker
Ian, a lot of folks don't think they might have an idea in their head about what blacksmithing is. I don't know, like some fire and create things out of that. I think it's going to be helpful for us to have a good working definition about just kind of like a quick history and in your work as a blacksmith. All right.
00:02:19
Speaker
Well, I think it kind of gets broken down, you know, the distinction between maybe fine art and craft. And I come from more of a craft tradition, but I would call it contemporary craft, where we're combining craft process with contemporary thinking about how to make the work. So sort of a hybrid there.
Bujold's Blacksmithing Journey
00:02:39
Speaker
My background is in small metals. So that's like jewelry and hollow and small sculpture. So we would call that metalsmithing.
00:02:47
Speaker
And that's what I was studying at Oregon College of Art and Craft. So we work primarily in non-ferrous metals so those are metals other than steel so copper brass bronze sterling silver. I got introduced to blacksmithing between my second and third year. I had the opportunity I got some scholarships two scholarships to go to a school in Maine called Haystack School of Craft and one to go to a place in North Carolina called Penland School of Craft.
00:03:15
Speaker
And that's where I was introduced to contemporary blacksmithing. So a lot of people will first, their response is going to be blacksmith, you make horseshoes, right? Those are farriers. So they're a little bit different. And then a lot of people are familiar now with blacksmithing through forged in fire.
00:03:35
Speaker
the reality show. Yeah. So a lot of people associate blacksmithing with knife making weapon making things like that. But I'm part of a smaller community of people who are looking at utilizing these processes and techniques for contemporary applications.
Techniques and Innovation in Blacksmithing
00:03:54
Speaker
So looking at I mean I would say blacksmithing fundamentally is a process is moving mass
00:04:03
Speaker
moving the mass of steel through the application of heat and pressure. So fire and hammers or hydraulic presses or other kinds of methods. And so there's a lot there's a kind of rich contemporary field that exists a little bit separately I think from some other contemporary craft movement and also separately from fine art. We can get into why that is a little bit because I have a lot of thoughts on the topic. But so using steel sculpturally
00:04:32
Speaker
in a different way that it's different than just cutting and welding, which we'd call fabrication. Right. So is this now you kind of I don't know if it's the best way to put it, but came to it a little bit later and kind of in your art process and development. I'm going to stop there and go back to the beginning and ask you a question we ask of guests.
Formative Influences on Bujold
00:05:01
Speaker
What were you like as a young human? Were you an artist when you were younger? Did you have an interest in anything that you're working on right now going back all the way then?
00:05:14
Speaker
I think we're all artists when we're younger. And I definitely was like a very creative kid, a very bookish kid. My mom is a science fiction and fantasy writer, so just a little bit unusual for a kid growing up in a small town in Ohio in the 80s.
00:05:32
Speaker
But so reading was super important in my family and books have always been like a really important part of my life. So sort of very internally imaginative. And I think it was kind of in my adolescence high school years that I kind of probably started to believe that I wasn't good enough
00:05:57
Speaker
at making art to continue to pursue it even though I enjoyed it. I think that happens to a lot of people. And I got more academically tracked in high school and moved in that direction. So it took me quite a while to come to the idea that I could pursue art as an adult and that I could pursue it as a career path. I initially went to college in St. Paul Minnesota and then moved to Portland in 1999. I was at Portland State University.
00:06:27
Speaker
I had studied a lot of women's studies, sociology, political science, which kind of all comes into my work today, the way that I think about the world, I think is very much formed by that education. But I didn't start at OCAC until I was 24. So it kind of took me a while to get to art.
Impact of Science Fiction on Art
00:06:44
Speaker
Yeah. Well, what about you mentioned your mom as as as a writer, and I just want to focus in on that for a moment. Did that
00:06:56
Speaker
Did that feel intimidating or did that feel freeing? Because you mentioned a kind of an imaginative atmosphere, which from the outside I would assume might be there. What was your relationship with the fact that your mom was a writer, was an artist in that regard? How did that impact you?
00:07:18
Speaker
I mean, I think that that's changed a lot. Like my perception of that. I mean, one thing about writing is that it's something that happens when nobody's around. So, you know, it's not something I observed or really understood as a kid or, you know, um, cause it would only happen when we went outside. Oh, sure. Sure. Right. And then, um, I think, you know,
00:07:42
Speaker
I definitely had the sense that it set us apart or set me apart from my peers as a kid, living in a small post-industrial, mid-80s town where most folks are working at Whirlpool or there are a couple other
00:08:02
Speaker
factories that still existed at that point. So being a writer was definitely outside the norm. Being interested in intellectual pursuits wasn't necessarily a way to be popular. I think it's much, much cooler to be a geek nowadays than it was.
00:08:19
Speaker
You know we were like going our family vacations were going to science fiction conventions across the southeast you know in the like mid late 80s early 90s. So I understood that that was different. And so I think that that you know yeah it was hard to navigate in some ways. I mean at this point as an adult I have an enormous amount of respect for my mom for her perseverance in that path of like.
00:08:49
Speaker
You know, there's not a lot of other housewives from Marion, Ohio, who ended up making careers as science fiction writers. You know, what she did was really unique. And I have a lot of respect for the fact that she pursued that and was able to make that happen. It doesn't. I love the Bujold family vacation, the science. It's an intimate experience for you. But from the outside, I'm saying, wow.
00:09:18
Speaker
Yeah. So that would have been up my alley to have seen Rocky Horror Picture Show when I was like 12 years old, I think was different than what my friends were experiencing on their family vacations. I guarantee that. And I'm sure you're the better for it.
Artistic Inspirations and Influences
00:09:35
Speaker
What type of forms of art attract you both in the sense of you creating
00:09:46
Speaker
forms of art or dabbling or what have you and what are you attracted to as a Whether you be a consumer or viewer of art. So what what what styles of art pull you in? Well, I mean I look at a lot of sculpture I mean
00:10:05
Speaker
I'd say music is hugely important and fiction is hugely important, but those are a little bit less direct. I mean, I appreciate painting and sculpture. There's definitely specific artists that have been more influential. Lee Bonacou is someone I've looked at a lot. I really like her work, Louise Bourgeois.
00:10:28
Speaker
She's an amazing sculptor and did most of the best work in the last 30 years of her life after she was 60, and she makes incredible work, and I love the way that she talks about it. The fact that she was drawing from a very personal experience, which in a lot of ways is...
00:10:47
Speaker
look down on, I think, I think there's a lot of ideas about personal narrative that are seen as not serious, especially when that comes from a female perspective. You know, I look at a lot of contemporary metal work, but also just contemporary sculpture. I'm always up for finding new things. You know, I like everything, you know, everything from
00:11:09
Speaker
gallery museum art to street art, and one of the moments that was really pivotal for me in the decision to pursue art was as cliche as this might be, going to Burning Man in 2002. I'd never experienced anything like that, which was a community of people coming together
00:11:30
Speaker
in a creative experience that wasn't driven by commercial interests. It was just people coming together to make art. And to me, it deconstructed the hierarchy between artist and normal person, or like some people are artists and some people
Burning Man Experience
00:11:47
Speaker
aren't. I think that division is really false. And that experience really helped me understand that. And I think
00:11:55
Speaker
Just as far as you mentioned Burning Man, which I haven't been to, but just the dynamic that you talked about of creation may be kind of separate from the market. It sounds to me that that must have been quite an event or potentially transformative event for you that you just saw so much creation and it wasn't tied necessarily to, is this going to sell or who's the buyer type of thing?
00:12:25
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, at that point, I think it was about 30,000 people. And, you know, I remember a very specific moment of being there really early on and in the week and just
00:12:38
Speaker
looking around. I mean, I grew up in a town of 30,000 people. And so to be like, wow, 30,000 people came out here to build a city in the service of art, and then they're going to burn it to the ground. And like, that's very powerful. That's not something that we do. We try to preserve art. We, you know, there's right. Museum culture is all about the preservation of artifact and this idea that that you just create an experience and
00:13:06
Speaker
And then, you know, it can never be exactly recreated, right? Every year it's going to be different because every year you're starting over. Um, that, that was really profound for me. Well, so in connected to that, I mean, uh, in describing, you know, kind of like creating something and then it's eliminated and, uh, you know, uh, burned, did you,
00:13:33
Speaker
either at that time or have you ever asked yourself is like, why do you, why do you create anything? Why do you create? Why do I create personally? Yeah. I mean, for me, I think that it's, it's become a way for me to try to understand the world. Um, especially going through like the graduate school process and developing sort of more of a research based,
00:14:02
Speaker
perspective, like it's a way for me to explore ideas through material and the creation of objects that helps me
00:14:11
Speaker
understand the relationships between things in new ways. And that comes from both the idea and the fact that I come from a craft-based education. So thinking a lot about material meaning, material history, process history, which connects to the blacksmithing quite a bit. And one of the things that's happened for me in the last few years is coming around to the understanding
Gender and Inclusivity in Blacksmithing
00:14:38
Speaker
Like there was, I felt like there was something in blacksmithing that was always sort of missing for me or something that I wasn't connecting to that I didn't understand. And I, my theory, my working theory is that, you know, as a medium of material, it has, I mean, it's been the purview of men.
00:14:59
Speaker
for almost its entire history, not that there haven't been maybe some women involved along the way. And I do wonder if there are more women historically than we're aware of, but, you know, you don't have women coming into contemporary blacksmithing until a little bit later and not that many of them now, there are quite a bit, quite a few more. And so I wonder about how having a predominantly masculine
00:15:24
Speaker
perspective and aesthetic has shaped the way that that material is used and, yeah. Well, and I want to get into that because, you know, personally, as far as with kind of
00:15:42
Speaker
just kind of a recent perspective I've had of looking at past history. And maybe it's the stories of artists, particularly women artists or persons of color, where there's these stories that I think sometimes we randomly happen upon that have occurred, these stories, these histories, these contributions that were made that I always feel a little bit cheated that I find out about them so late. I study science,
00:16:11
Speaker
and just learning about the contributions of women in science and that their names were not papers, but they were the ones who made the discovery or, you know, a wife of a famous scientist that we know was the one who did the work, you know, situations like that. And it sounds like you're grappling, you know, in working within that question. The, one of the projects that I know you've,
00:16:39
Speaker
moved in to help create and organize is a group called Society for Inclusive Blacksness. And from what I've seen, it's, well, I'm not going to describe your group and what you create. Could you tell us about why this group was formed in the mission of your work?
00:17:02
Speaker
Sure. So the project started as a small conversation really between a couple of folks, Lisa Gertson, who's a Seattle based blacksmith and Rachel David, who's based in New Orleans. And through a series of events, we sort of ended up in each other's orbits quite a bit a few years ago, even though we're geographically living in very different places. And
00:17:27
Speaker
We just wanted to do something where we could bring women, non-binary identifying folks, people of color, people who are outside the larger demographic of blacksmithing together because we understand that we're having a different experience. And so how that manifested was that we ended up
00:17:53
Speaker
through us. We wanted to have like a larger sort of more open event or conference but we ended up applying for some grants and getting space at a place called the Cascadia Center for Arts and Crafts which is up in government camp on Mount Hood.
00:18:07
Speaker
And we invited about a dozen folks out from across the country and we got a grant to build a sculptural bench. So that project that was sort of the building portion of the project. And then the other point was to have a series of conversations about what people's experiences were and to try to figure out like how we could
00:18:31
Speaker
start to do work to change things or what was that, what would that even look like? And so we were up there for about three and a half days and we built the bench and did that and out of that has started this project, which is still really new in a lot of ways and very small, but our goal is to change the idea of who can be a blacksmith by
00:18:59
Speaker
you know representation which is really important like seeing people who don't fit the stereotype of the you know the big bearded big bearded burly guy because blacksmithing a lot of people think it's about strength and power and that is part of it but it's also that's not the entirety of it. It's been a very interesting journey. We have
00:19:25
Speaker
had a lot of support and have faced a lot of pushback. So it's been really interesting but I think it's really important. Right now our current project that we're working on it's not quite ready to go online yet but our goal is to develop a scholarship fund because we feel like the most direct way
00:19:46
Speaker
to help change the field is by getting people access to education. So providing scholarships to minority folks whether that's you know whatever that encompasses.
00:19:58
Speaker
because it's really important. And one of the things that, you know, coming back to that, what I was saying earlier is I feel like blacksmithing has been sort of relegated to the sidelines in a lot of ways. And I don't think it should be because it's a process. It's just as interesting as ceramics or painting or, you know, photography or whatever. But
00:20:17
Speaker
I think my perception is that there's a very narrow demographic of practitioners and that by widening the participant base will get broader, like a broader spectrum of ideas or ways of thinking about the material and new ways of working with it and that that in and of itself will help to kind of
00:20:40
Speaker
expand what blacksmithing is in a way that I think is going to be really valuable. So you know we're all everyone in the project you know works full time if not more than has various obligations. So it's a real challenge for us to be able to move that forward. But but we're working on that and it's really exciting. And it's really helped us build a community you know and connect to other
00:21:07
Speaker
women's miss other, other minority Smith's in a really great way. Yeah. Thank you for that. I, I, I, I picked up on your point that I think is very relevant in many areas of where they can be a medium or an activity that's dominated, um, you know, in a particular way.
00:21:27
Speaker
Uh, and I'm always excited by the openness in possible for like just really new radical, if, if, if it comes about, but just approaches or techniques or outcomes that, um, are going to kind of like add vitality to, you know, to, to the art or to the craft. I see the work that you're doing there tied to.
Teaching and Artistic Practice
00:21:51
Speaker
very much an opening towards creativity and I think that's inherently good. We're talking with Anne Bajold and she was just speaking about the Society for Inclusive Blacksmiths. And Anne, I work with teachers for the last 20 years. I'm a labor union rep, represent teachers and support staff in the K-12 schools.
00:22:19
Speaker
I've worked as a professor at the University of Rhode Island, and teachers in general have had an enormous impact on my development and my intellectual development. When I talk to artists, I become really interested when they're practicing artists, but they're also teaching the art that they're doing. I was wondering if you could take a little bit of time to talk about your experience in teaching
00:22:47
Speaker
art and blacksmithing and basically just how that's impacted you as the artist.
00:22:59
Speaker
I think my interest in teaching came a little bit later. And, you know, it's driven by several different things, of course. One is that my department head from Oregon College of Art and Craft, Christine Clark, was an amazing educator. She's a fantastic artist. But the way that she taught is really inspiring.
00:23:23
Speaker
it made me want to be like her. Because just the way that she both pushed and supported people was really admirable. And then there's sort of a consideration about the economics of being an artist. And a lot of artists I've seen who seem to be able to be successful, part of it has to do with diversifying your means of supporting yourself. So having a combination of
00:23:51
Speaker
Teaching and art making and maybe some production work and you know being able to mix up what you're doing to keep yourself afloat Seems like a really good idea. And again, you know, I come from a craft tradition so our craft perspective at least and being able to You know, I didn't buy any textbooks really when I went to OCAC everything I learned I learned through direct demonstration and people showing me and
00:24:19
Speaker
And I feel a bit of an obligation to continue to share these processes and techniques with other folks so that you know in this craft you know this very hands-on way of making it's not theoretical it's very direct and I feel a responsibility to to share the information that I've learned in my experience with other people. The one of the one of the.
00:24:48
Speaker
things that I had a note about was something that I almost forgot as far as a connection on the podcast with Christopher St. John, who was a previous guest in sculptor and watercolor and artist. And recalling now that you
00:25:11
Speaker
You're going to be in a joint exhibit or you've had one or it's going to be coming up soon? No, it's coming up. It's going to be in May at the Dalles Arts Center in the Dalles, Oregon. And there are several other artists involved as well. And so Christopher and I were connected by the executive director of the Dalles Arts Center, Scott Stevenson.
00:25:30
Speaker
and I think the other artists, so we all work with animal themes and so that's our connection.
Art as Human Expression
00:25:38
Speaker
So yeah, that's gonna be coming up in May of this year. That's wonderful. I very much look forward to that. And I know we talked a bit before and I mentioned there's some big questions too and knowing you for the time that I have, I know you're,
00:26:00
Speaker
can willingly handle them. One of the bigger questions I have is, what is art? Yeah, well, sure. I mean, I think art is any expression of human creativity.
00:26:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't know that it's any more or less than that. And that can be any kind of action or, you know, aesthetic experience or way of looking at the world, I think.
00:26:40
Speaker
You know, I think at this point in contemporary art, art is a very fluid concept. I went through this with my introduction to art students in the fall. And, you know, they want to start with like, it's a, it's a sculpture of a person. And like, when we go through, like, what is art now? There's all, you know, so many different ways that people are finding to express themselves through new technologies and performance and all kinds of radical
00:27:06
Speaker
ways of thinking about things. So yeah, I think that's my short answer, you know, just the expression of the human experience. One of the things I've wondered, and I haven't had the opportunity to ask you yet, is what is the accessibility to blacksmithing? And part of me, for a rough analogy, one of the ways that, you know, I grew up in the city
00:27:34
Speaker
And, uh, you know, for me, access to sports was, you know, was a question in, I think it was a big economic issue. Right. So like, you know, I played basketball and if there wasn't a basketball hoop around, you only need one basketball. Somebody needs to have a basketball. And if there wasn't a basketball hoop, you shot it at the, you know, you shot it at the street sign, whatever you did. Um, you know, baseball could be more resource intensive. You need other people.
00:28:01
Speaker
hockey was prohibitive, you know, economically for many folks, wasn't part of the culture where I grew up. Within blacksmithing, you're going to need some resources and some access to what you need, the equipment.
00:28:23
Speaker
What is that world like as far as access in contact with that, and how does somebody who's interested in blacksmith navigate that?
00:28:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely much more difficult than a lot of forms of art, right? And that's part of why when I went to graduate school, one of my interests was developing ways to work in other materials or with other processes that didn't require that kind of space or that kind of equipment necessarily, which has helped to lead me in some interesting directions.
00:28:56
Speaker
Um, I think that's part of why blacksmiths have a lot of community because you know, to really set up a whole shop on your own is pretty challenging, but there's a lot of ways to share resources that are really fantastic. You know, clearly like.
00:29:12
Speaker
That's not a cheap hobby. It's not a cheap interest to get into. So there's regional groups that are really great. The Pacific Northwest has the Northwest Blacksmith Association, which is like the most fantastic group of people. They're really just awesome. And they have a space up at the Calitz County Fairgrounds up in Longview. And so
00:29:36
Speaker
They have a building that they rent long-term, and they have monthly events in the mentoring center, which is equipped with anvils and power hammer, and there'll be demonstrations. They have open forge time in the afternoon, so members can come. You pay, I think, like 10 bucks. You get to watch a demonstration, and then you can hang out and work, and there's people around who have all kinds of experience. You can ask questions. We do a lot of sharing
00:30:01
Speaker
You know, people sell each other tools and, you know, as a community, I think blacksmiths are incredibly generous. It's part of the reason I care so much about what happens with it is like you have to have. There's like you have to be a particularly driven kind of stubborn person, I think.
00:30:25
Speaker
of just the nature of the material, the nature of the work. And again, what I do isn't exclusively blacksmithing. I incorporate some blacksmithing processes into what I do, and I work in a lot of different ways. But I definitely feel like I'm part of that community, and it's a really unique and wonderful community.
00:30:46
Speaker
There's a lot of really incredibly smart people who work very hard, and it's a really fantastic thing to be a part of, and I feel really fortunate.
Animal Imagery in Art
00:30:56
Speaker
I was wondering if you could tell the listeners about what you create as art pieces.
00:31:09
Speaker
You know, I'll be displaying some images around promotion of this episode and have done so. Um, and you mentioned the primacy or the, there was a connection with the Christopher St. John that, uh, the, in the other artists out in the, in the Dalles regarding animals. Um, could you talk a little bit about, you know, the subjects that you, the pieces that you create, what, what they look like, what they represent, what you, what you're doing with that? Mm-hmm.
00:31:39
Speaker
So at this at this point you know so I've been doing this for about 16 years now so I'll just kind of speak to where I am. You know I'm really interested in animal imagery for reasons that I don't necessarily fully understand despite having you know gone to graduate school and thought thinking about it quite extensively.
00:32:01
Speaker
You know, one of the things that came up in my research that I think is really fascinating is that when you go back to the beginning of visual culture, you go back to cave painting with some of the earliest forms of art making and it's humans representing animal forms. And so I feel like there's a connection to something that's just
00:32:21
Speaker
maybe innate in us with a desire to, I don't, to, what, what compels us. I mean, there's so much art about animals. What compels us to want to represent animals in all these different ways through sculpture, through painting. I feel like it may have to do with a desire to connect to animals in a way that we're not actually capable of doing.
00:32:47
Speaker
because there is a separation between us and them. So in the last couple of years I got specifically very interested in I'm interested in boundaries. Like that I would say that's the foundation of my interest and like
00:33:06
Speaker
the dissection of dichotomies. So the human and the animal, you know, it was in graduate school again that I came across Derrida's idea about, you know, why do we call all animals animal? You know, an alligator couldn't be more different from a zebra. Why are they all animals? They are all in the same category that is, you know, we're separate from them. But look how diverse this category of creatures is. Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, right?
00:33:36
Speaker
Right. And comes back to some ideas that I have about, I mean, I'm terrified about what's going on right now, especially environmentally. I see us careening towards an inevitable disaster if we're not already past the point of being able to reconcile that as we are. And I think that
00:34:04
Speaker
especially in Western culture and American culture, we don't see ourselves as part of a larger system. We see ourselves as distinct from our neighbors to the South. We see ourselves as distinct from, somehow separate from the natural systems that we live in. It doesn't make any sense to me.
00:34:27
Speaker
I got really interested in ideas about animals that are crossing those boundaries. I did a lot of research about coyotes because they're really good at that.
00:34:40
Speaker
Coyotes were initially sort of their original habitat was the American West and it was European settlers coming in and eradicating the wolf populations that allowed the coyotes to thrive and spread, you know, and they're incredibly adaptable. And so they live in everywhere from rural environments. I hear them, you know, outside my cabin at night sometimes here in rural Tennessee, but there's also coyotes in Manhattan. So to me, they're like these incredible agents of
00:35:09
Speaker
being able to sort of pierce those divisions between the urban and the rural, you know, ideas of like separating nature and culture. I think that they're a really interesting animal to look at and so starting to break down. So I was looking at raccoons and coyotes and, you know, gotten into crows lately, sort of birds. Yeah, animals that are navigating
00:35:34
Speaker
these spaces in between. There was a phrase I came across in an essay called Edgelands, which I took the title of my thesis exhibition from by a woman, a British woman named Marianne Schode. She talks a lot about interstitial spaces. So, you know, I think a lot of artists are interested in those ideas, like the liminal space, the space between. There's a Portland novelist writer named Lydia Uchnovich, who talks a lot about
00:36:02
Speaker
I love her. Oh, she's the best, right? I love her. Yeah. And it was, you know, her Ted talk about, um, you know, Oh, help me out here. Um, I haven't seen the Ted talk. I invited her to podcast. Lydia, if you're out there, people are calling for you. Um, yeah. So she, oh my gosh. I'm totally blanking for a second, but you know, she's talking about misfits.
00:36:28
Speaker
There we go. And so, you know, you know, it's these questions about inside, outside and, you know, the edges inform the center. Mainstream culture pulls from the underground. But then, like, what's in between the edges? And like, that's an idea that's really fascinating to me. Like, like, what's what's in between the in between? And I think the animals have become a really great vehicle for exploring that question.
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah, I could not connect to what you're saying, uh, more in, even in, in your explanation of it, you know, it has me thinking. Um, and I, and I like how you've laid out just like that, that kind of border idea, you know, I, I've studied the, I think when I've looked at boundaries and blurring, um, and there's a lot of it and it's a very fertile ground to investigate. Um, when I first looked at, I think it was like,
00:37:23
Speaker
geographical borders, right? Is this Mexico? Is this Texas? How do you know where you are? Do you feel uncomfortable that you don't feel properly situated and know what's expected of you? And I find that area fascinating. And it sounds to me with
00:37:40
Speaker
the way you describe animals and particularly those, you know, what is wild maybe, right? With the coyote and, uh, you know, in an urban setting, it's like, is this wild or is this controlled by humans in urban? It's probably, probably not either, particularly, um, in, in, in Manhattan. So, uh, yeah, I think it's very, um, very, uh, fertile ground. I've been a vegan for,
00:38:06
Speaker
more than half my life. So last year was kind of interesting. I looked up one day at the calendar and I've been, I'm 47, been vegan for 25 years. And I was like, wow, more than half my life I've, I've been a vegan, but that's only one relationship, one very particular way of relating to animals by me not eating them. There's a whole host of components as far as like, you know, I do question myself as far as, you know,
Material Choices and Philosophical Exploration
00:38:34
Speaker
And how do I include animals? Am I sensitive to them out in the wild? And there's so much to explore in your reference to Derrida. And of course, you know, this kind of large reference of animals, right? They're in this animal category. And of course, we're animals. So where does that leave you? Right. So I appreciate you laying out that. So would you say, I mean, as far as what
00:39:03
Speaker
you know, right now with the pieces that you're creating, you're exploring maybe this boundary and the presentation of animals with this in mind.
00:39:15
Speaker
I mean, I think there's a lot of, it ends up sort of layering. So there's an interest in the ideas of the dichotomy of gender, which of course we understand gender is not dichotomous, it's a spectrum. And so for me, that plays out in my material use, where I'm both using this very hard industrial material that is typically seen as the purview of men, using steel.
00:39:42
Speaker
and then trying to bring in these other softer materials, fiber materials. I'm also very interested in, I kind of laid out the idea that blacksmithing is historically a male pursuit. And then how does that counter with the history of fiber arts, which is historically, although not exclusively, but at least currently seen as a female pursuit, even though that's not necessarily true. But there's a lot of things like that, right?
00:40:10
Speaker
There's like cultures where weaving is maybe the purview of men. Whatever. But so I'm interested in how if I kind of come in the layering and combination of these things can I start to understand it differently or is there you know what comes out of that exploration. So there's sort of a material base you know there's a fundamental interest in metalsmithing metals processes like there's my own technical interest but wanting to combine these materials
00:40:40
Speaker
looking at animals, animal imagery, philosophy around that, the idea of the Anthropocene that we're living in this moment, geological time, where now us as a collective species are influencing geology in a way that's never happened before with the accumulation of carbon in the atmosphere, all the other accumulation of plastics in the ocean, all these different ways that we're changing the world that we live in.
00:41:08
Speaker
at a very rapid rate. So bringing in these different kinds of materials to try to think about those ideas. I have some compulsion of continually like having these animals that are sort of coming out of the wall or sort of messing with the boundary of the gallery space. I don't even know where, you know, I mean it seems pretty direct but I don't know exactly where that comes from.
00:41:34
Speaker
I saw that and it was a striking image, I think, might have been on your site where the animals coming out of the wall. And it has this huge impact and it's beautiful and that's so much energy just by the presentation of what you're doing there. Is that something you've been, as far as display in creation, is that something you've been doing more lately?
00:42:04
Speaker
Yeah, right now I've been working on a series that started with a show I did that was at Afro Gallery in Portland in August of last year. And I'm continuing to work with these with birds right now. And that's kind of my focus working towards the next show. But yeah, I don't know. I just seem to
00:42:25
Speaker
I keep coming back to it. And, you know, I mean, it makes a lot of sense really with the ideas that I'm thinking about, although I don't know why that keeps coming up exactly the way that it does. It might reveal itself eventually. As you know, there's a question behind the show of something rather than nothing about
00:42:50
Speaker
And I've talked a couple times about why I ask it. I think it's related to creativity or like the ultimate nature of, you know, why we're doing things. I've been exploring the question with artists and thinkers and also like for myself exploring it through science and cosmology and philosophy and of course back to art with this project.
00:43:19
Speaker
And I know in talking to you, you have the answer to the question, why there is something rather than nothing. I'm relying on you. So why is there something rather than nothing? I have an answer. All right. And the answer is fine. Right. There's no, I don't think there is.
00:43:36
Speaker
I like the idea that as humans, as conscious beings, we're an opportunity for the universe to experience itself. I think that that's a really interesting idea.
00:43:54
Speaker
you know why are we sentient. Why do we exist the way that we do. You know I don't I clearly I'm not the one with the answer to that question but there's something rather than nothing. That's a really interesting idea to me and it's it's part of what actually to come back to why I teach why I think teaching is so important because I think it's so valuable to help to help people learn how to manifest their ideas in physical space.
00:44:22
Speaker
and to see that they can have that kind of influence on their reality. And I connect that back to the idea of social change. And that if you see that you're able to take raw material and transform it into an expression of an idea that previously only existed in your head, that it gives you the opportunity to understand that you can influence
00:44:46
Speaker
reality in other ways and to me that connects back to can we influence the world in which we live and how can we do that and You know clearly we live in a consumer culture and we're very much taught that culture is something that we consume But that's never been the case historically Culture is the product of human expression, right? What like that's what we were talking about earlier. What is art? So I
00:45:11
Speaker
Connecting people back to the idea that we can participate in our reality and we don't have to just accept what's given to us, I think is really, really important. So the something that we make out of the nothing, I don't know, just the production of the raw material of itself is something, but then taking that and making objects that express ideas to me is very important.
00:45:40
Speaker
Yeah, I want to thank you deeply for that answer. It's always an act of courage and as usual, and particularly with a lot of our conversation, I've learned a lot through the answers. I think the
00:46:00
Speaker
What I enjoy a lot about is that it opens up other questions. I've been influenced by the Danish philosopher, Sorin Kierkegaard, who said, my job as a philosopher is not to answer any question whatsoever, it's just to ask more questions. And I like that dynamic, right? Where you can try to answer your questions and you do give answers, but they open up more questions for exploration.
00:46:27
Speaker
We've been talking with Anne Bujold, and as part of what the podcast does, I'm very much a proponent of not only people connecting with this particular episode and your answers and perspective, but I want people to participate and connect in whatever way you can lay out for them in your art, whether it's displays of art or
00:46:56
Speaker
forms where you put that out and including the Society of Inclusive Blacksmiths. Can you lay out for the listeners kind of ways to contact your work, see your work, interact with you in a way that's comfortable with you or some details around the exhibition here in Oregon that's upcoming regarding animals?
00:47:21
Speaker
Sure.
Community and Future Projects
00:47:22
Speaker
I mean, I'll mention this, although this is only going to be timely for a little while, but one of the things that I'm really excited about that's coming up is I'm going to be a participant in the Austin forging competition, which is held annually in Austin, Texas.
00:47:37
Speaker
It's put on by the Austin Metal Authority and in conjunction with Community First Village which is a project. It's a tiny home community east just a little bit outside of Austin. And it's a project to help transitioning homeless folks. They have a really amazing facility I visited down there in November and that's coming up March 7th. So
00:48:02
Speaker
What they do is they bring eight teams of blacksmiths to compete. It's a four hour timed competition. There's.
00:48:09
Speaker
You know, a bunch of rules and stipulations. There's no power tools. Everything's got to be done by hand. So it's a really cool thing that they do to help bring attention to the community there and the project that they're doing. So they have a blacksmith shop on site as well as a woodworking shop and a screen printing shop. So they're finding ways for people in that community to connect with making
00:48:33
Speaker
in ways to both, for economic reasons, to have people have sources of income, as well as outlets for creativity. So that's a really amazing project that those guys have been doing. And it's a really exciting event. And that's going to be March 7th in Austin, Texas.
00:48:50
Speaker
That's going to be super cool. And then, you know, I teach, I have a three-day blacksmithing workshop coming up at the Appalachian Center for Craft in May, and I update my teaching on my website, which is my name, ambujold.com. So I'm out and about teaching where I have the opportunity to do so.
00:49:12
Speaker
that we're going to have that exhibition at the Dallas Art Center in May of this year. And I'm also going to be part of a group show that's going to be at the Columbia River Center for the Arts in Hood River, Oregon in November. And that's what I have. That's all I have lined up coming up for now. And I'm on Instagram, you know,
00:49:33
Speaker
Facebook, all those things. And the Society of Inclusive Blacksmiths, you can find the website is inclusive blacksmiths.com and that scholarship project we're working on and hopefully we'll be launching in a significant way in the next few months. Oh, thank you so much for all that. Um, I can say that it's been, or you can hear the train in the background. That's one of the things we've had two trains go by. I'm near the train tracks, which, um, uh,
00:50:02
Speaker
is it's a sound that's very centering for me. I don't know why. But I just want to thank you for your time. And it's been an absolute pleasure to get to know you and to gosh, just to learn about your thinking behind your art and experiencing the art that you do itself. Again, I've learned so much and I'm actually going to pick up
00:50:30
Speaker
on some of the points of listening to this again, and to kind of explore a lot of things that you said. But I just want to deeply thank you for your time and for your advocacy work and efforts and the art that you give us. It's much appreciated. Thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks, Anne. And have a great day. All right.
00:50:59
Speaker
You are listening to something rather than nothing.