Transcript
Speaker: This episode of No Sadietes is sponsored by Full Pool Wines, a Seattle -based wine seller who recently released their first book, 36 Bottles of Wine. The ethos of the book, a highly curated look at wine categories that provide exceptional value right now, should be familiar to full pool readers. But there's loads of fresh content, and since it's not trying to sell any wine through the book, there's a bit more of a sass factor.
Speaker: And there's food! Lots of it! Fullpool's unique writing styles apply to recipes like leftover Thanksgiving turkey, schmaltz -a -ball soup, and pregnancy nachos. This book can be purchased through Sasquatch Books. Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Fuck! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! Morris runs right by him and sticks in and slots it in for a roll! Fantastic for George Morris!
Speaker: Here's Morris! Morris! Think of an ant! What do tigers dream of? They take a little tiger's hand. The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle. And the hills, the greenest green in Seattle.
Speaker: like a beautiful child growing up free and wide. Welcome to another episode of No Sarietes. I am Jeremiah O 'Shan. I am at Sounders headquarters with Adrian Hanauer. Welcome to the show. I feel like this is at least an annual tradition at this point.
Speaker: Yeah, we probably should do it more often, but I am always evading you. Yeah, yeah, seriously. You had all these terms that I had to agree to do. Exactly. To do this interview. But anyway, I wanted to congratulate you. I know it wasn't a win, but you guys did hit 50 points on Wednesday, which means that you have now hit 50 points in eight of nine seasons and nine of 11 overall, which I'm pretty sure nine of 11 is a record for MLS.
Speaker: Eight of nine, apparently, one other team, the Red Bulls, apparently, have done that too. Cool, thank you. I have not been congratulated for 50 points yet, so that's a first, yeah. Felt like a little bit of a hollow victory. It did. But, you know, hopefully we're close to securing playoff position or a playoff spot and that's the one, that's the streak I'd like to keep alive, so.
Speaker: You know, the Sounders have been amazingly consistent throughout their MLS existence. You've obviously had some high highs, but the lows ultimately, you know, whether there's been struggles during the season, but ultimately the lows have been pretty high, all things considered.
Speaker: But at the same time, it does seem like there's this medium ground that the Sounders have been right around the third or fourth best team every year. And the consistency is amazing. But I know when you guys came into the league, there was this sense of we're going to rewrite what it means to be an MLS team. I don't know if that was literally the message that you put out there. But as more and more teams have come into MLS with that kind of same ethos,
Speaker: It does sometimes feel like, where are the sounders in the hierarchy? And I guess from your perspective, where do you see yourself and where do you want the sounders to be in terms of, you know, when you have LAFC and Atlanta United and now InterMiami coming and talking about signing David Silva?
Speaker: Yep. Yeah. Look, we we've been pretty consistent in saying that we always want to be able to challenge for championships. You know, obviously, step one is is having a team that can make the playoffs. You know, beyond that, we'd like to be a team that puts ourselves into position to host as many as many playoff games as possible.
Speaker: And then, you know, ultimately we want to win championships. But I would, you know, I like, I'm kind of a slow and steady guy. Like, I like consistency over a yo -yo. I think that if you make the playoffs, especially in our league, in our system, if you make the playoffs and you can host one or two playoff games,
Speaker: you're going to win some trophies. And I do think that sometimes to, you know,
Speaker: The Yo -Yo, the Yo -Yo team has its costs as well because usually, in our league, it's still a league of having quality all the way through the roster. There are resources beyond just what you do with your designated players, how you spend your TAM over a broader range of players, how you fill in towards the bottom of the roster, your academy.
Speaker: It all ladders up to collecting points throughout the year and positioning yourself to win championships. So I guess to address overall hierarchy, I don't really think about it in those terms. Atlanta's gonna do what they're gonna do. LAFC's gonna do what they're gonna do. Miami's gonna do...
Speaker: But I do want to be a team that can fight for a championship every year. And look, I've said this. If it gets to the point where I'm an owner that can't put the sounders in a position to fight for championships, then I'm going to find
Speaker: group an owner a set of owners some way for us to do that because
Speaker: You know, you and I have talked about this. This is a passion of mine. This is my community. I want this to be fun and meaningful and important for our community. And I get it that winning is a piece of that. And so, you know, that's what I'm committed to.
Speaker: You know, and I think that there is this, maybe it's a minority, and maybe it's even a small minority, but there is a group of people, I think, that look at the, you know, 2013 when you guys signed Clint Dempsey, when you bring in Oba Femi Martins, and it was this sense of, we're gonna compete with dollar for dollar almost, with every team in MLS. Is that something that you,
Speaker: Aspire to at this point or is that even would you even say that's an import? Like is that something you allow yourself to even get wrapped up in is like competing on a dollar -for -dollar basis No, absolutely not because I mean personally I think that's stupid. I mean I I This is a business. I mean it just it is people may not want to realize that or believe it but I
Speaker: It is something that I want sustainable for generations in this community. I want the league to grow and being stupid with the way you spend money is just not something that is in my DNA.
Speaker: I admire more an organization that can spend smarter, be ahead of the curve in a lot of areas. And I think we've done that from day one. Our investment in sports science early on continues to pay dividends for us.
Speaker: you know, once Garth got here, really his focus on the academy is beginning to pay dividends for us. And, you know, that is the way, now there are gonna be times when you need to make an investment and, you know, again, whether it's in players or some other piece to the puzzle that makes us, you know, a top team that can compete.
Speaker: So, you know, really again, I don't worry about what other teams are doing. I just want us to be successful and being able to challenge for championships. And do you feel like you're in a place right now where you are doing that then?
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I think we have a very good team right now. It's been a rough year. I'll be the first to admit. The middle of the season, some of the player absences with national team duty, which is another conversation we can have.
Speaker: but it's been challenging, but I do think this team can win a championship. Like any other team in the league, it's going to take some luck. Look, not to read too much into it, but
Speaker: When LAFC is missing Carlos Vela, they're a different team. If the Galaxy are missing Zlatan, they're a different team. And you can pretty much go down the list of teams in our league and if they're missing a top player, you know, whether it's Joseph Martinez in Atlanta or
Speaker: It's hard to win in our league, so we need our players healthy and on the field for the most important games coming up here.
Speaker: in the season so you brought it up and as we'll get into this a little bit national team duty I feel like this year has made a much bigger impact on the Sounders despite what I think can be fairly said as best efforts to avoid that situation whether it was building the roster in a way that would be resistant to that kind of thing but also just
Speaker: the number of national team players that are on this team that weren't necessarily national team players when they came here and the number of weeks that they've been required to be gone, like we had this Colorado game, which was obviously somewhat unavoidable, but what can the league do and what are you hoping that can be done in the future to eliminate this kind of conflict?
Speaker: Yeah. So I will you know I'll put my hand up and take some blame for this because I sit on the competition committee. I think the fancy name now is our product strategy committee but and rolls off the tongue.
Speaker: We are responsible for working with the league on scheduling. I don't think we spend enough time on schedule.
Speaker: I think that's something that needs to change. This is a massive issue for us, and I think one that's solvable. The pieces to the puzzle that we can look at are
Speaker: Number one, obviously the length of the season creates a number of extra, well, either limits or expands the number of windows. Number two, you know, our league,
Speaker: in its evolution could not justify playing midweek games from a revenue standpoint. And I think that's evolving a little bit to the point where midweek games are not as taboo as they were 10 or 12 or 15 years ago. So obviously being able to have more midweek games is helpful.
Speaker: A third, you know, thing is that we just have to prioritize to some degree. We have Open Cup, Champions League, Leagues Cup now, which has the potential to be a really big and meaningful tournament.
Speaker: in North America. Again, a little bit clunky to start out with, but I'm a believer that it has massive potential. The TV viewership would
Speaker: reinforce that opinion. And it could be a super cool interleague opportunity for us as it expands. So that's another issue or variable. Another one that we've been talking about recently here within the sounders is
Speaker: You know, at a minimum, if you have those three, if you if you're going to decide to play three games in a week in order to free up some of those international windows, you know, is it worth us looking at sort of a Friday, Wednesday, Sunday schedule, which gives the players an extra day of rest means that in that midweek fixture,
Speaker: You are going to be able to play your first team, maybe do a little bit of rotating, but it's not basically requiring a whole different squad, making sure that the travel is minimized during those three game weeks.
Speaker: And all of that, you know, if we do a bunch of that, right, potentially it opens up those international fixture dates and gets us off of them once and for all. I don't think it's going to happen overnight, but I do think that our
Speaker: product strategy committee has the capacity to solve this issue for the most part. To your point, if you have a game snowed out and there may be instances where you're forced to, but I think we really do have to get to a place where we're not playing on.
Speaker: international dates? Well it just strikes me as you know the reason I've always thought that the reason that the big leagues in Europe don't play on international weeks it's not just because of this kind of high -minded oh what would be wrong to compete it's that well you're missing half your roster is it practical to play these games and it seems like MLS is getting to that point you know obviously you guys had 10 players called up and that wasn't even everyone that theoretically could have been called up into this window
Speaker: And it just seems like it's becoming a competition issue where, you know, if teams are having to sign two or three players on emergency contracts, maybe that's not the... It's bad. Look, it's bad all the way around. It's bad for competition. It's bad for our fans, you know, and that's, you know, that's sort of got to be the heart of it is, you know, do our fans want to watch
Speaker: a game where, you know, look, sometimes from the technical standpoint, I can say, you know, hey, I like seeing some of these young players get an opportunity. But if I'm a fan paying money for a season ticket or spending my energy watching on TV or following, you know, I want to see the players that are going to give my team the best chance to win.
Speaker: So, you know, along those lines, the fan experience part of it, you know, you've talked to me about how one of your nightmares is every time you go into the stadium, you're always kind of worried that it's never going to fill in. Like, you can have NPCs. And we did kind of have a situation like that on Sunday where there
Speaker: It seemed like there were just more empty seats than we're used to seeing. And this kind of gets back to the idea that maybe some of the, you know, we're 11 years in, there's this turnover in who the fan base is, I would imagine. You know, fans that were single and had unlimited free time no longer have that, you know, 11 years on most likely.
Speaker: What kind of challenges does that face and how does, how do the sounders, you know, and maybe this is just anecdotal, maybe there's nothing to it, but how do the sounders, how aware are you or how concerned are you of that kind of thing going on and what can the sounders do to kind of combat that?
Speaker: Yeah, so as I've told you, I'm paranoid about a lot of things related to the Sounders and continuing to fill the stadium and provide an amazing game day experience, a team on the field that can win, and a team and an organization that fans are proud of from a community standpoint.
Speaker: And all of those things go into it. There are headwinds in professional sports, like everybody has tough businesses and you have to continually innovate.
Speaker: and get better and execute better. The season ticket in general in sports is evolving and becoming more and more challenging as the availability of tickets on the secondary market becomes more ubiquitous.
Speaker: easier as traffic increases, as parking gets more expensive, as security gets more burdensome, as the experience on TV gets better and better, you know, getting people out to games
Speaker: 12, 15, you know, thankfully it's not 81 times a year that we're, you know, that we're trying to do it. But even, you know, 17, 18, 19 times a year is a challenge. So we need to evolve organizationally and as an industry.
Speaker: how we look at season ticket membership, how we create more value in the ticket, how we give people more incentive to come to games, how we make our fans
Speaker: feel like they're part of something bigger. And we did just send out a press release. This is a minor thing, but being able to donate tickets that are unused to the Ray Foundation, we'll go find families that would not otherwise get to come to a game, bring them to the game.
Speaker: It's not going to change the trajectory of season tickets dramatically, but it's the kind of thing that we've had feedback from fans saying, this is really cool. This makes me feel better about not being able to use my tickets on occasion.
Speaker: being able to help fans either exchange tickets or find value on the secondary market for those season tickets. So that's, you know, from a season ticket standpoint, those are the kinds of things we need to continue to do.
Speaker: There is huge opportunity that I do not believe we are maximizing today on group tickets. I think that I can look at our numbers and know that there is huge opportunity for us in group tickets. So that's something that we will continue to build on and try to execute in a more effective way.
Speaker: And that has, and I'm sort of giving you sort of a peek behind the curtain, you know, that has a knock -on effect. If we can fill in a lot of group inventory, reduce supply,
Speaker: That now has a knock -on effect on fans who might want to sell their tickets on the secondary market. From an atmosphere standpoint, we both know that when the stadium is packed and tight and intimate, it leads to a better atmosphere, which hopefully converts into more wins and points, and a better experience.
Speaker: So, you know, I could probably go on for an hour on the kinds of things we think about on a daily basis here. You know, there's a whole marketing department here thinking about, you know,
Speaker: we ask our season ticket holders if they don't continue why they're leaving us. And the number one response is schedule. We need to dig a little deeper on that, but when I hear, again, this is me, Adrian, being sort of paranoid, and when I hear schedule, what I hear is,
Speaker: We don't love you enough to prioritize it in our lives to the point to which we are willing to sacrifice anything to get to the games. And so, you know, as our marketing team thinks about how to retain our membership and grow it,
Speaker: A piece of the puzzle is how do we make our fans love us more? And that, you know, again, that has lots of different pieces to it. Connection to our players. Are we doing right by our community? Are we making or are we taking away friction from coming to the games? Again, you know, over the years, we've
Speaker: I wouldn't say by any fault of ours necessarily at times we've increased friction whether it's parking issues or security or which is to some degree the world we live in today but are there things we can continue to do through technologies and quite frankly more
Speaker: one -to -one relationships that just make it more inviting for our guests. So all of that is one very small piece of what we think about and how we intend to continue to drive this over the coming years. I'll add that we
Speaker: You know, we are super excited about the prospects of the world, certainly the World Cup coming to North America. Potentially if we, if we, um, if we're so lucky as to be a host for, for some games here, um,
Speaker: what that can do for the soccer ecosystem. Again, I continue to be super bullish, but it's not gonna be a hockey stick up to the right. It's a lot of hard work, and there are gonna be some ups and some downs, but we just need to keep the trend headed in the right direction.
Speaker: I wasn't necessarily planning on talking about this, but you mentioned the World Cup in 2026. There was a lot that came out when the bid kind of opened and the US won that. Has there been any updates along those lines?
Speaker: Where Seattle stands in that? Yeah, look, we do not know where Seattle stands in the eyes of FIFA and U .S. Soccer. We assume that we're in good standing. Maya Mendoza -Extram, our general counsel who is a rock star and knows the political
Speaker: on civic landscape here really well is kind of helping lead the charge. We're in continual contact with the mayor who is a massive advocate and has committed to doing what she can to help
Speaker: grease the skids and make sure that we have the best possible chance of hosting games. We have been thinking a lot about how the Rave Foundation fits in and legacy, what we can provide to the community coming out the other end of the World Cup.
Speaker: So there is a lot going on behind the scenes, but ultimately it's going to come down to FIFA and US soccer choosing the winning cities. So I don't think this is necessarily a deciding issue, but I'm sure people will kill me if I don't ask. How big of a deal is not having grass at CenturyLink Field in that ultimate process, or is there so many other things that
Speaker: If you have to put in temporary grass, it's a non -issue. There are a bunch of other grass stadiums that are going to end up with World Cup games. By the way, I should have mentioned that our partnership with
Speaker: Vulcan, the estate of Paul Allen, by virtue of their new CEO, a guy named Chris McGowan. The relationship hasn't been better, hasn't been this good for a long time. And again, I really credit Chris McGowan.
Speaker: who is a, honestly, he'll probably yell at me if he hears this, but he's really a soccer guy. He's a massive, yeah. Yeah, exactly. He's been a great partner, super transparent about what's going on at the stadium, has started to reconnect,
Speaker: some of the fabric of the Sounders, Seahawks original partnership and relationship. And I think that will also pay dividends moving forward. And so is there I mean, is there anything that fans are going to notice as far as that partnership goes or is this mostly like a business centric?
Speaker: I think there are things that fans will notice. Nothing to really report today, but that's not true. I will report today that we are in communication about some of the opportunities to brand the sounders at
Speaker: centuryling field and make it feel a little bit more like a sounders stadium on sounders days and you know have it feel like an NFL stadium on on on NFL days you know that's been an area where we have
Speaker: prodded like are there some opportunities for some permanent fixtures can we honor some of our history maybe our season ticket base maybe 2016 championship you know where are there opportunities to to really make our fans feel like it's their home during Sounders games. And so it sounds like CenturyLink Field is
Speaker: It feels like a long -term home at this point for you. It's moving more in that direction than I know at various times throughout the years we've talked about the possibility of something else. Yeah, look, we've got a bunch of years left on Elise. I'm super open to the prospect of a stadium someday.
Speaker: It's going to be complicated. It's going to be super expensive. And the location would have to be spectacular. Obviously, a stadium in the suburbs is probably not in the cards for us.
Speaker: You saw the announcement in Chicago. That didn't work out so well, being in the suburbs. And our area, the Puget Sound region, is different. I get it. But still, I don't see us leaving downtown Seattle. Fair enough.
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Speaker: So one other area that I'll give you an opportunity to break some news if you feel like it. So you've teased the possibility of a new training facility. Where are we in that? And how important is that piece in terms of kind of keeping up with the Joneses?
Speaker: Yeah, so. Yeah, that's right. So we are, we're making progress. I actually had a three hour meeting yesterday and we were presented, we've been working on a feasibility study, looked at
Speaker: six or seven different sites, including Starfire. And of those six or seven, one or two probably unrealistic. So, you know, sort of four, maybe five different locations for a training facility. Obviously it's Starfire, you know, it's our incumbent,
Speaker: We've had a great relationship there. It's a great location. We love it. But as you and I have discussed, this is a 30 to $60 million decision. And we want to make sure we get it right. I'd rather take a little bit longer and make sure. It's not only that amount of capital.
Speaker: 30 to 100 year decision as to where we end up. So we're looking at a variety of criteria. How many fields do we end up with? What's the geography? How proximate is it for our players, for our staff, for our fans, for the media, for our youth system?
Speaker: What are the revenue opportunities? You know, one facility might have a lot of sponsorship revenue opportunity and another doesn't, and that, you know, if you're amortizing
Speaker: a million dollars over 30 or 40 or 50 years, that's a big difference in what will make most sense. Which facility has potential for expansion, which one doesn't? Weather, even in this area, there are some microclimates, so we want to make sure that
Speaker: We're not snowed out for four months out of the year. Is there any commercial development opportunity on a particular site? Is there signage available to a main highway or thoroughfare?
Speaker: So we have a super sophisticated and intentional grading system and we've sort of created 10 criteria and try and make a good decision.
Speaker: So, we're making progress, you know, I don't think we're going to have a big announcement in the next few weeks, it may not even be a few months. This is probably, you know, look, even if we started today, it's a couple years down the line, you know, so it's realistically probably
Speaker: three years until we open something. Even if it's at Starfire, there's gonna be a permitting process and a decent length of construction. And how big of a piece is that, do you think, from a recruitment standpoint and from a competitive standpoint?
Speaker: Yeah, right. Sorry, I didn't address that. It's big. It is. We have yet to lose a player who's come in and
Speaker: you know and said wow these facilities aren't aren't good enough but you know at some point it it it could happen this is an area again this is another one where you know it's a like I mentioned it's a 30 to 100 year multi -generational sort of decision and
Speaker: We have to be looking 20, 30, 40 years down the line when hopefully this league is a top league in the world and hopefully our development system is developing players that either stay on our team because they're so good for our fans and our brand and winning championships
Speaker: or we're selling them for 15, 20, 30, $40 million, at which point a 30 or 40 or $50 million investment in this facility will have made a lot of sense. How do you feel about the Academy and the defiance in terms of what kind of fruit they've born in this first, you know, call it five years of really being in the state that it's in?
Speaker: Look, I am super enthusiastic. I think Garth, Mark Nichols, the coaches, I think they've done an absolutely tremendous job. I think that we're in the
Speaker: Maybe I won't say the first inning, but we're in the second inning of this now. That sounds bad. We're in the 12th minute, 14th minute of a 90 minute game. I don't want to use a baseball analogy. But, you know,
Speaker: to see Danny Alfonso, to see Shannon come on, get some minutes. Sam, even stories like Henry Wingo ending up in Norway.
Speaker: They're all building blocks. They're all small, small wins in a long -term battle, a long -term war.
Speaker: We there are some Very good young players in our in our system who haven't you know, you haven't quite hit a defiance yet whether it's double air or On hell Martinez
Speaker: I think I got that. Yeah. That's what I don't know. Yeah. Center back. There's some very good young players coming through. You know, you ask about Defiance. Obviously, we'd like to win more with that team. You know, the one thing I guess I'm proud of, though, is that we
Speaker: You know, and this is where I think we've been good organizationally, is we committed to something and we've followed through and said, look, this team is going to be about developing players. And it's tough on our fans. I get it. It's tough on the psyche, I would think, of some of the players. And organizationally, we're used to winning.
Speaker: But ultimately, it has to be about developing players. And so to sort of not panic and go out and sign a bunch of 28 to 32 -year -old veterans who are going to help us collect points, but ultimately won't
Speaker: help for the first team long term. So we'll just keep hammering away at that and hopefully next season collect more points. And I know Gar thought that maybe this year would be better. And I guess we hope next year will be better than this year. And is there any updates on the stadium there?
Speaker: That is definitely real -time process ongoing with all the different constituents, stakeholders, trying to figure out how to make the economics work. So again, nothing to announce, but that is like,
Speaker: Literally, I think there are conversations going on today, sort of sort of trying to move that move that along is 2021 still possibility.
Speaker: Uh, I, I think so. I'm like, I'm always at this point in my life, I'm 53 now I've seen how, how fast two years goes by. Um, so yes, but I think that 2022 is a much more realistic timeframe.
Speaker: And so kind of related to that, you bought into, you formally bought into the, to Rain FC this last off season. Um, is, does that, have you seen any, they've obviously had some great attendance numbers. They have, uh, you know, seen a lot of improvements in, in terms of like their, I think aware people's awareness of them. Um, what's your experience been with like with Rain FC?
Speaker: Well, I'd be lying if I said that my involvement has led to a significantly increased role or focus.
Speaker: as we were joking about here, like, you know, I've got my hands more than full with the sounders. And so I'm, you know, anytime the team can pick up points is getting a good crowd. I'm super excited and proud.
Speaker: And I, you know, I want so badly for Rain FC to thrive. It's, you know, it is a tough slog. Bill and Teresa Predmore again are really the ones who have
Speaker: done the heavy lifting for all these years, put their blood, sweat and tears into it. And, you know, super thankful that our community should be really thankful to them for that. On a at a macro level, I am I am.
Speaker: I am definitely committed to trying to find a path for NWSL to be successful and for women's soccer, women's sports to grow and become a
Speaker: sustainable, sustainable business. It's about time. But it's tough and complicated like everything and it's going to take more than me and my family. And it's going to take
Speaker: fans, sponsors, media, owners, stadium operators, everybody possible to be in the same boat row in the same direction for it to be successful.
Speaker: So I wanted to end this interview on maybe a less upbeat note, but I feel like I have you here. It's probably a good thing to get into. I want to talk a little bit about this whole Iron Front controversy that's been going on. And first of all,
Speaker: What have you heard as far as what happened last night with the meeting between the league and supporters, and where do you kind of feel like the sounders are at this point with that whole situation? Yeah. So look, I will start by saying you kind of teased it with a less upbeat subject.
Speaker: I don't look at it that way. This is our country. This is important. It's complicated. It's controversial. It's difficult. But I think it's brought a lot of good as well. And so again, all that saying, look,
Speaker: It was easier before this popped up, but that doesn't mean it was better. And so for ECS, the supporters groups overall, to have brought attention to this issue, to this particular symbol, I think it's been instructive for me.
Speaker: I've learned it has reminded me a little bit of my roots. We've talked about this. I'm a Jewish guy whose family escaped the Nazis. So it has reminded me that staying silent isn't the answer.
Speaker: isn't what's going to make our country a better place. So again, I'm almost thankful for this to have come out again as a
Speaker: as an owner of an MLS team, for sure it has complicated my existence. But, you know, I signed up for this and as a young, well, youngish... I guess on relative, right? Yeah, relative to...
Speaker: but as a youngish progressive leader in our community, in our sport, you know, it's incumbent to me to be, you know, to some degree the tip of the spear. So as far as last night, you know, look, I've
Speaker: spoken personally to the league people who were in those meetings. And, you know, look, they're good people. I know them. They're my friends. I know how much they care about these issues as well. And I think
Speaker: they were encouraged by the tone, the content, the thoughtfulness of the conversations and that they are committed to continuing that dialogue and trying
Speaker: to find some solution. I don't know what that ultimately ends up being, but I know that they are open -minded and want to include experts from around the world in human rights and
Speaker: social justice and so I'm excited about that. That was the, is that, did I answer sort of? I think you answered the question as far as it goes. Yeah and you know to reiterate I guess the values, I mean there is zero question in my mind whether
Speaker: the values are aligned, the tactics, there may be misalignment in the tactics to be used, but it's also
Speaker: Again, you and I discussed, it's brought me closer to this issue and I, without going into too much detail yet, lining up some meetings with people who understand this space and can help me think through, are there things we can do to change
Speaker: the dialogue, the narrative to move the needle on
Speaker: what the ultimate goal is here, which is to rid ourselves of the scourge of racist and fascist and homophobic intolerance.
Speaker: So, you know, are there things that we can do, you know, actually? Like, what can we do to move the needle? And I get that the iron front flag is a symbol of that. But I'm equally, if not more interested in what can we do in terms of policy? What can we do in terms of elections?
Speaker: Who should we be raising money for? What are the organizations that can really help make our community, our country a better, more civil, more high -functioning, inclusive place? Would you say it's fair to say that your thinking on this has evolved during the few months that it's been kind of an active issue?
Speaker: For sure. My values haven't changed, but my thinking has evolved and my level of wanting to become involved and active has changed.
Speaker: Obviously on this specific issue comes down to the the use of the actual flag And the league has not made a it sounds like they've expressed an openness to Revisiting the the language in the fan code of conduct it sounds like there's gonna be a call on Tuesday where they kind of determine what the how they're gonna Want the current fan code of conduct enforced that said what ultimately what?
Speaker: powers do MLS have if the sounders just were to say we're not going to, we're going to create our own set of rules here.
Speaker: You know, look, we are, we're a franchise, um, uh, within major league soccer. So I, I guess I hate to think of like, I know that I know what they can do for me talking out about, um, CBA negotiations, um, or tampering on a trade.
Speaker: I'd hate to know what the ramifications were for going against major sort of philosophical policies of the league. I hope it doesn't
Speaker: get there, and I know the level of discourse and dialogue that the league is willing to engage in, so I don't anticipate that, and again, I'd rather not speculate about how that might unfold. So it's not like, no one's coming to you and said, if you don't do this, then X is gonna happen.
Speaker: They have not. OK. Fair enough. So I guess one thing I'll close on as far as this goes is, and I don't want to put myself in too much of an advocacy point of view on this, but I'm just kind of curious if the idea that the Iron Front flag is representative of an idea and is kind of representative of countering a narrative about Antifa in general
Speaker: And if those things have really entered into this conversation or if it's more like the optics of it to a wider audience or maybe like what I guess what is what's the driving aspect of this controversy from your perspective like from a league perspective what's driving this particular ban what's driving the you know the rules against political speech if that makes sense.
Speaker: Well, if I understood your question, I'm going to answer some question. I'm not sure if I'm answering your question. I didn't phrase it as well as I wanted to, so I'm going to let you roll with that. And if I need to clarify the question, I will. And I'll ramble, as I always do, Jeremiah. I think that on the surface, in a vacuum, this concept of trying to have our stadiums be free of politics,
Speaker: sounds really, to me, sort of, it makes sense. Now, you know, I'm also perfectly aware that that just isn't reality. That there is politics in our buildings, in our sport, in all sports, in almost everything we do.
Speaker: And so then it becomes this issue of how do we define what is politics, what isn't politics,
Speaker: where we draw lines, what was politics, might all of a sudden be considered something different. I mean, we talk a lot about politics versus human rights, and I think that it's safe to say that the fan code of conduct
Speaker: arbitrarily chose certain symbols and not other symbols and that that is an area that is an opportunity for refinement if not out flat out changing.
Speaker: So, and then you have to layer in where we are as a league in terms of values, because I do believe wholeheartedly in the values of our league, and I know all of the owners in our league, and I know...
Speaker: I'm not going to suggest that I know the soul of every one of our owners, but I'm confident. I know where they stand in terms of racism, fascism, homophobia. So I guess the symbol has become the flashpoint on this issue.
Speaker: But it could have been a different symbol. It could have been a different phrase that isn't a symbol that comes up in signage in the stadium. And again, I'll sort of end with the fact that, again, our
Speaker: To me, developing the fan code of conduct should have been, and I think the league admitted it, should have been, could have been a much more collaborative and holistic effort. Because we are, we are, you've heard me say it a million times, we're stewards of these franchises for our communities,
Speaker: Our fans are our business, and we need to always be doing right by our fans and listening to them. It doesn't mean that we're always going to agree.
Speaker: But at a minimum, we always need to listen and collaborate and communicate in a really effective way. And again, this whole process has brought that to light as well. Look, we just need to do a better job of communicating at the local level with our supporters groups, alliance council, fans in general.
Speaker: and at the league level as well. Well, great. I think that's probably a good place to end this. I really appreciate the time you've taken. You've obviously been very generous with your time. And yeah, this was informative and I hope it was good for you. I love it, Jeremiah. I really appreciate it.
Speaker: something's less comfortable to talk about than others. Um, we didn't talk very much about soccer. We didn't get to you as much. I know too much other stuff going on. You couldn't have given me a Jordan Morris or Jordan Morris. You're the one that wanted to be sign them, right? That's very true.
Speaker: We all wanted to re -sign Jordan. So no, super happy about how he's performing. And yeah, let's go collect some points and finish second and host some playoff games. Absolutely. It sounds like a good plan to me. Thanks for listening. This is No Study Yet This, and we'll be back later.
Speaker: Green Douglas spur where the water's cut through. Down to wild mountains and canyons she flew. Canadian northwest to the ocean so blue. It's Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Your power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll On, Columbia Roll On.
Speaker: We love you. Let's win another one!
