Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
When Presence Replaces Hustle with Mike Chang
254 Plays11 days ago
Fitness icon turned spiritual teacher, Mike Chang joins Scott Schwenk for an unfiltered, wide-ranging conversation on the pursuit of true freedom. From being the star of the largest fitness channel in YouTube history to a psychedelic journey that radically altered his sense of self and launched a pivot away from the golden handcuffs (and hamster wheel) of a highly profitable business, Mike reveals what happens when you stop chasing profits and start listening to the soul. A story of breakdowns and breakthroughs. And the power of learning to take a profound experience and ground it into new integrated ways of moving through life that benefit the many. This episode dives into the behind-the-scenes work of transformation—from shame and identity to stillness and play – and what happens when care and compassion compel new ways of moving through life.
Mike Chang – Catalyst, Conscious Living Champion, Entrepreneur
Mike Chang is a globally recognized fitness and life transformation expert, known for creating deep healing and providing guidance and support for those seeking to make big life alternating decisions. After building Sixpackshortcuts, one of the most successful fitness platforms in YouTube history, Mike shifted his focus inward, exploring how to alter his state of consciousness to obtain happiness, fulfillment, inner peace.
Mike created a training system called Flow60 that combined ancient techniques for enhancing energy and altering the mind with a fitness approach resulting in one of the most simple and practical training systems that exist today for a state of complete health and inner fulfillment.
Today with over 6 millions people around the world following Mike Chang’s exercises and teachings, his training system is proven to be an highly effective approach for guiding people into emotional resilience, deep release and expanded states of presence and inner peace.
Scott’s teachings, courses and private mentoring guide leaders, seekers and creatives to explore their deepest selves in service of thriving on all levels of being, both individually and relationally.
Host and creator of the podcast The Choice To Grow, Scott is known for his hugely popular courses and workshops with OneCommune.com, Younity.com, Wanderlust Festivals, and Unplug Meditation, Scott has been catalyzing the inner evolution of others for decades: helping them to grow, transform obstacles into opportunities, and find Love within.
Apprenticeships in leadership development, meditation and philosophy training, shadow work/shadow resolution and spiritual awakening are all part of Scott’s development into the thought-leader that he is today. He continues to refine his offerings studying and practicing with key innovators at the leading edges of human development.
Scott’s teachings support the entire person to not only progressively recognize, stabilize and embody our inextricable oneness with the source of creation (Waking Up), but also to resolve the wounds of the past (Cleaning Up), continually expand our capacities for wider and more inclusive perspectives on any moment (Growing Up) and creatively and joyfully participate and collaborate with all of life as a loving thriving human being (Showing Up).
You can receive a free guided meditation and explore Scott’s courses, workshops, retreats, training and master coaching at https://scottschwenk.com and can find him on Instagram @thescottschwenk.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to The Choice to Grow Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to The Choice to Grow. I'm Scott Schwenk. Through these dialogues, we'll explore fresh perspectives and discover practical tools for navigating a thriving life that adds value wherever we are.
00:00:14
Speaker
I'll introduce you to innovators and creators from across our world who embody what it means to cultivate growing as a way of life. Let's prepare together.
00:00:24
Speaker
Take a deep breath in.
00:00:28
Speaker
Hold breath briefly as you soften your shoulders and soften the soles of your feet and palms of your hands. Then exhale like you're releasing tension and setting down a heavy burden from every cell.
00:00:41
Speaker
Ah. Now let's dive in.
Mike Chang's Journey from Fitness to Consciousness
00:00:48
Speaker
Welcome back everybody to The Choice to Grow. I've got a ah new friend and a special guest here, Mike Chang. Mike Chang, some of you know him in a particular way, but you may not know him as deeply as I'm curious about.
00:01:02
Speaker
Mike Chang is known as a globally recognized fitness and life transformation expert. And he's particularly known for creating deep healing and providing guidance and support for those seeking to make big life alternating decisions.
00:01:17
Speaker
After building up Six Pack Shortcuts, one of the most successful fitness platforms in YouTube history, Mike shifted his focus inward, exploring how to alter his state of consciousness to obtain lasting happiness, fulfillment, and inner peace.
00:01:33
Speaker
Mike has created a training system that he calls Flow 60, and this combines ancient techniques for enhancing energy and altering the mind with a fitness approach resulting in one of the most simple and practical training systems that exist today for a state of complete health and inner fulfillment.
00:01:51
Speaker
So today with over 6 million people around the world following Mike Chang's exercises and teachings, his training system has been proven again and again to be a highly effective approach for guiding people into emotional resilience, deep release and expanded states of presence and inner peace.
00:02:07
Speaker
So just from that, I bet you can imagine why I was excited to have him dialogue about the choice to grow. So with without any further ado, Mike, welcome to The Choice to Grow.
00:02:20
Speaker
Thank you so much, Scott. i'm I'm excited about the conversation getting into. think it's going to be a good one. When you hear that title of the show, what does it evoke for you
Conscious Choice vs. Inevitable Growth
00:02:32
Speaker
today? Like sitting here in this moment, the choice to grow?
00:02:37
Speaker
Well, so, you know, today when I hear that, when I hear that title, two folds, I think in one, in one perspective, I would say, um we get to, we have the power to choose.
00:02:52
Speaker
We can either choose to grow or we can choose to remain the same. But it's a it's a conscious choice. It's something that we have to be conscious of, be aware of, and actually commit to.
00:03:09
Speaker
Now, that's on that's a one perspective. Now, on the other perspective, that I would say the the phrase itself um is almost like saying, you know, a choice to breathe.
00:03:28
Speaker
And it's like, well, either either you're going to breathe or, yeah you know, you're you're committing suicide, you can say. So there's almost like no choice, right? There's no choice. You're just, you are going to breathe.
00:03:41
Speaker
It doesn't matter. You are going to breathe, you know. And and i say that for this phrase because Um, whether or not a person chooses to grow wouldn't actually matter.
00:03:53
Speaker
And this is what the second perspective, because growth doesn't just happen by choice. Growth happens by action. And if a person chooses to grow and no action follows, then, and it doesn't matter versus it' a mind game.
00:04:10
Speaker
Yeah. Versus a person just, uh, say, I choose to grow. and then they don't and or they say uh they don't say i choose to grow they i don't care about growing but i'm going to help you build this thing and i'm going to take on this task and we're going to support these people and fast forward three years later whether or not they chose to grow or not they grew so that's the second perspective you know so so that's when i hear that title those are the two perspectives that come up and i think it really just depends on where somebody is you know, where somebody's at, how they would, you know, how they would interpret that phrase with that, with that title.
Symbol of Life Force and Growth
00:04:46
Speaker
As I be with what you what you're looking at what you're saying, if it feels like two forces And actually actually, it's evoking the the symbol of awakened consciousness and harmony physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, which is the two snakes twining up the up the staff, which is the symbol for the medical community, kind of ironic. yeah um But it's actually the symbol of one of those snakes is the physical life force that's beating the heart and breathing the breath.
00:05:16
Speaker
um The other one is understood to be sleeping, coiled three and a half times in a subtle energy center in the base of the spine or at the base of the pelvic floor.
00:05:27
Speaker
and when that begins to stir and move in a healthy way in a person, there's no choice but to go along and choose to participate with the transformation and the changes or suffer.
00:05:41
Speaker
And so when I listen to you about these two perspectives, it's like, okay, life actually grows. When I look outside the window, when I look at the plant next to me, everything is growing.
00:05:54
Speaker
things that stop growing entropy kicks in and the universal course codes of creation start tearing it apart back into source energy so like everything is growing until it isn't and then there's the the the game we play called am i going to choose to participate with that am i going to ride the horse or i'm going to be dragged behind it yes it's uh it's like this this too shall pass or everything changes.
00:06:26
Speaker
ah Nothing remains the same, right? Everything is flowing. Everything is changing and we can call it growth, which people have this association to, you know, to improving or we can call it change.
00:06:41
Speaker
My growth is just one perspective of looking at it.
Balancing Consciousness and Ego
00:06:44
Speaker
Change kind of just covers the other end, which is right. I'm changing and things are not what I would like it to be.
00:06:52
Speaker
but it is still happens. and we We can't do anything about it. Things will change. That's just the nature of life. And I think what about what about your experience?
00:07:03
Speaker
Okay, so we've got the change piece and participating in it. And sometimes it's coming from like, the ego really hustling to change to get more goodies or avoid suffering. But then there's like, so we've got change on the one side, and then we've got the change less.
00:07:19
Speaker
What is your orientation around that which does not change and how that is leveraged in participating skillfully with change and the choice to grow?
00:07:31
Speaker
Well, I think when we return back to the place that doesn't change, we can say it's pure consciousness, we can say it's awareness, and that doesn't change. But the ego changes, the ego evolves.
00:07:44
Speaker
And depending on how much of it is active at the moment, You know, that's how we experience life. and So I think it's important to to recognize it. And it's not to say that we're going to operate without ego because, you know, then you'll know how it's like to be in oneness.
00:08:01
Speaker
And in that state, you also don't recognize that you're in oneness. Well, I don't know. That may be the first blush experience of it, but I actually am blessed to know a number of late stage practitioners and the pervading experience.
00:08:19
Speaker
And I'm still working in progress with my own taste of it is as the stages of ego development beyond, you know, what, where people settle out usually after high school, if you continue to grow, one is actually able to reflect on that consciousness.
00:08:38
Speaker
So there's a turning point there, it doesn't happen for people, some people are just their ego is having spiritual experiences, and they're getting high on their breathwork or getting high in their meditation, or, you know, whatever their group work plant medicine,
00:08:51
Speaker
But then there's a turning point that seems to happen. I'm seeing it a few of my my clients as well, where they become consciously aware. may be for flashes at first.
00:09:04
Speaker
And then it starts to get a little deeper. Well, I think it's, it's necessary. It's necessary when, when a person needs to change or, you know, they desire to change.
00:09:19
Speaker
But it's, but it's not necessary after they make they make changes that are needed. That's who knows what what is determined needed.
00:09:30
Speaker
And that's the tricky part, right? You can never be done with it. But let's say ah person decides that I need to make these changes, you know, these habits and that these choices are not good. I'm creating harm in my life ah because these people are telling me things are falling apart, right? And my health is declining.
00:09:47
Speaker
I think I've got the message. And for those that didn't, you know the message would come around a little harder next time. So then the person goes, okay, I need to make a change. let me be aware of ah what's happening, what my thoughts are, habits.
00:09:59
Speaker
And then they go and work hard, make the changes. And then now fast forward, whatever length of time, This is where it gets tricky because this person has gotten really used to analyzing their thoughts, being conscious of their thoughts, conscious of their feelings, conscious of their actions, conscious of how people are reacting to them and conscious of their inner state, et cetera.
Obstacles in Over-Consciousness
00:10:22
Speaker
And they've gotten so used to it, it's almost like automatic. I'm always coming um' always kind of conscious of these things. Well, if you're always conscious of these things, then that means you're always aware of yourself.
00:10:36
Speaker
if you're always aware of yourself, then you can't get yourself out of the way. And so then therefore yourself is kind of always in the way of everything you do.
00:10:50
Speaker
and And that doesn't allow a person to fully express, fully be, because there's always a sense of self there because they got so good at the becoming aware of it.
00:11:04
Speaker
You see, so it's like they needed to in order to make change. But at some point, they need to let that go. And they need to return back to unconsciousness.
00:11:15
Speaker
And not enough people in our in our and our market, in this topic, ah talk about the need to go unconscious.
00:11:27
Speaker
Everybody's always about conscious, conscious, conscious. And what happens is now you have a whole bunch of people that are conscious and conscious, and they can't seem to make things happen the way they want.
00:11:38
Speaker
And they're wondering why. And they don't realize that they are actually in the way. They may have signs of it, but they don't realize that what they need to do is directly um contradicting what they got really good at doing, which is to become aware of themselves, their thoughts, their actions, their feelings, their habits.
00:12:02
Speaker
ah the way they treat people and their perspective and all of that. Now, so what you're saying, I just want to check in just to bring the listeners along. So you're, you're a little bit using terminology in, in, um, in fresh ways.
00:12:15
Speaker
And one of the ways you're using being conscious is not necessarily being fully embodied in, in awakening. You're talking about becoming a really good as ah as an ego at certain things and becoming conscious of what I'm good at, who I am,
00:12:31
Speaker
where I go, what my things are. I'm conscious of all of this. Yeah. Right. But that's only, but we're pointing at, we're pointing at is like, it's a pinprick.
00:12:43
Speaker
of what there is to be aware of. And so when you're saying unconscious, you're not talking about going to sleep or passing out. You're actually talking about going into the big world of what I don't know that I don't know and waking up to it as the larger not that frame of what I am.
00:12:59
Speaker
no, not that. um As in ah ah focusing on everything outside of myself,
00:13:08
Speaker
everything outside of myself, there's me, right? There's you, who are you? Then we say this story. Right. But then everything outside of myself, like I focus on you, I focus on your words yeah and then your feelings. And what do you want?
00:13:21
Speaker
That's not me. Right. That's you. Now i' focus on that, uh, that picture behind you. Now let's focus on this project we're going to talk about, but all of this stuff is outside of me. You see, has nothing to do with me.
00:13:33
Speaker
It's, it's you, it's this picture, it's this project, it's this, it's the audience. It's all outside of me. So to be unconscious is to say I'm unconscious of myself now.
00:13:44
Speaker
Now, again, to a certain degree, it won't be 100 percent because without sense of self is oneness. Right. There's no so there's no more separation. I can't tell the difference between me, you, a tree and a cup.
00:13:56
Speaker
Right. It's all the same oneness because there's no separation. That means there's no me, you know, viewing something else. It's just all the same because there's no me.
00:14:07
Speaker
So so It's not about you know not having ego at all. you know We're going to have an ego. It's fine. But I think you know most people are always thinking about themselves constantly.
00:14:19
Speaker
In Buddhism, they call it self-cherishing, the yeah poison of self-cherishing. What they know, what they don't know, what they're good at, still them. It's like, if you're good at it, why do you need to be aware that you're good at it?
00:14:32
Speaker
For what?
00:14:35
Speaker
well I think this is where we start to talk about um you know like learning to, say, do a certain set of of movements. I know you've studied Qigong.
00:14:47
Speaker
Doing a certain set of, and I have not in this life, doing learning the full set of movements and putting it together, i need to pay attention in a certain way for a while while I'm learning the movements and learning how to relax into the movements. And then at a certain point, it becomes something I can do without so much ego in the matter.
Self-Awareness and Action Balance
00:15:06
Speaker
but there is a noticer. There is a noticer. You know, my experience is that, um and everyone's experience is so unique, is that the recognition of the awareness you and I share right now, Mike, does not erase the Scottness for me or the Mike-ness.
00:15:23
Speaker
So there's the taste of the thing that is a larger me that's not personal to me. There's the taste of that perfume in our dialogue, in any dialogue, while being able to be aware of, oh, ah the mouth is dry, I'm going to have a sip of water.
00:15:44
Speaker
It doesn't go away. There's awareness of cup, but there's also an awareness of,
00:15:52
Speaker
I'm embedded in an ecosystem that is timeless and boundless and infinite. And when I believe the myth that I'm separate, I suffer and create suffering unnecessarily.
00:16:05
Speaker
and i And I try to achieve to get some sort of a feeling when there's a recognition that there's an entirely lively ecosystem of awareness in all directions. And I get curious about participating. It's a totally different movement.
00:16:19
Speaker
Like, i don't know, I'm just getting visions of you doing your Qigong practice by yourself right now. of that Yeah, there's no the act of that. creates awareness of self or intensifies awareness of self.
00:16:32
Speaker
It intensifies the idea of me. Now, if there's a need, then we then we do it. But that's what I mean. Most of the time, there's no need. Let's say a person's already, you know, they already made the changes and and, you know, they're healthier, their relationships are better.
00:16:49
Speaker
They're, you know, they're moving towards their purpose. And they don't realize you know the conversation we're talking about. So then they will say, I'm aware of this, I'm aware of that, I'm aware of this.
00:17:02
Speaker
And so what happens is they continuously keep their sense of self here in front of them, just constantly aware of themselves and aware of how great their life is or great their thoughts are or how how great universe is.
00:17:18
Speaker
i the the universe is that their universe of their the life that they have and the constant aware of themselves sits that in itself isn't bad you can say right but it opens up the next thing which is judgment And when they start to judge things as I like, I don't like, I disagree, I agree, you know, prefer preferences.
00:17:47
Speaker
Then from there, if they judge something as dislike, then the next thing is an emotion. Now they're going to be frustrated, upset, stressed, or vice versa.
00:17:59
Speaker
And as we know, now somebody who's caught up in this constant emotions, well, they're not going to be able to be centered and everything. Uh, just taking on that rollercoaster ride. yeah So if they can, if they can let go of needing to think about themselves, then they can get themselves out of the way and they can go after what they want.
00:18:24
Speaker
So if a person, uh, most people want things, so then go after it and go do it. Whatever actions plans. Let's say a person doesn't want anything, right? They don't want anything.
00:18:35
Speaker
Great. Well, then then you're just going to be present. But being present doesn't mean thinking about myself. Being present means being present with this physical place, right? Being present in the moment or being present with a vision that's in their mind.
00:18:53
Speaker
that that can like You can be present with that. You can just stay in that vision. You can be present in another dimension. Sure. But there's no need to constantly focus on themselves experiencing that thing because the act of doing so gets themselves
Letting Go of Constant Self-Improvement
00:19:10
Speaker
in the way. Or we can say that is the cause of resistance.
00:19:14
Speaker
That is the root of all resistance, the sense of self. And when a person recognizes, you know, then they'll start to move towards letting this go.
00:19:26
Speaker
But the thing that I find, Scott, is that There's not enough people out there that is focusing on this yet. They will, but not yet. Like when I go on internet now, I see a lot of people shaking and tapping, but I've been spreading that message for years now. Now I see people and they're doing them like, great, you know, good. Let's, let's get it out. That that was, that was my, that was my goal because it's so easy it's really, really effective. And it's like really simple, you know, it's like anybody can do it, but not even people knew.
00:19:54
Speaker
how to do it and what and the purpose of it. So a lot of people didn't besides, you know, hardcore Qigong practitioners or or certain martial artists. And now it's becoming more popular in this subject about not thinking about themselves or um letting go of needing to improve ourself all the time.
00:20:16
Speaker
That is going to be known I don't know, maybe well, that's based on a basic, either known or hidden ah deficit, like a really, most of us didn't grow up with enlightened parents, I say this all the time. And so most of us grew up with either an avoidant or in it or an insecure attachment pattern where there's this deficit. So I'm constantly constantly until I know better, using everything in my life to either prove i i am enough or prove that I'm not enough.
00:20:47
Speaker
which is again, the self cherishing over and over and over again. I've seen like you, there's certain things I've been doing offering to the world for a long time, like I started giving training people in breath work 20 some odd years ago, when hardly anybody even knew about it.
00:21:04
Speaker
And over a number of years, I saw people doing the breathing, like physically doing the breathing, physically having symptoms, emotions you know emotions were flowing, but then going back to their same behaviors.
00:21:21
Speaker
Like they were having a prana high and then they start grasping for the high and coming to the class for the high, but no self-examination, no like, wait a minute, how do I integrate this into the way I'm showing up in my life? Like I had to really let go in the middle of that breath work, but am I recognizing how to let go in the middle of a conversation where somebody doesn't agree with me?
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's just ah it just like the the stages or the phases, right? you know And then that person may just be getting high off of breath for a few years before one day they decide to go a little deeper.
00:21:57
Speaker
Who knows what that's gonna be? I'm thinking about, I've got this image in my mind of one of your Instagram posts. I don't know how far back it was. I look at the timestamp, but you were you and I believe it was your wife were leading people through ice bath.
00:22:12
Speaker
And there's this older woman um who was who was about to get in the water. And just there's a way in which you're holding her hands and looking her in the eyes. and then your wife's touch holding her hands as she's getting in and your hands on her shoulders, just not pushing, but just there guiding her head to under the water and up and then holding her where she comes out. And I'm like, that encapsulates everything that lights me up about how transformation works well with a facilitator.
00:22:41
Speaker
There's attunement, there's compassion, their support without force. And then this person was able to confront that sense of self, temporarily release it enough to have a new experience that transformed your entire life.
00:23:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was from our, uh, our retreat in Bali just, uh, this past May. Yeah. It was, uh, that was her first time. and That, that, that actual, um, that, that was her actual first time, but she was, I think it was her maybe fourth attempt or fifth attempt. She went from not even touching the ice to then just stepping in and stepping out. And then that one was the dunk, you know, so that was the first time she went completely immersed, but it took her these little steps.
00:23:35
Speaker
Yeah. And, and you weren't shouting at her going, Oh my God, get over yourself, get
Ice Bath Experience and Grounded Support
00:23:40
Speaker
in the water. Like none of that. it's there's yeah it's not aboutel It's just making sure that people people feel ready and that they just they have the support and and they need to the person supporting them needs to be grounded and calm.
00:23:57
Speaker
And this way they can they can mirror that energy. They can mirror, they can go, well, if you feel calm in this moment, I can just copy you and I can be calm as well because I'm freaking out, but I realize you're not freaking out. So gives me permission to to trust that it's safe right now as well you know because you're you're right here having the same experience as me.
00:24:20
Speaker
so So many of my friends who are Asian American have told me the story of how their parents demonstrated love by either giving them food or criticizing them.
00:24:32
Speaker
And then it took a really long time to learn how to, one, let go of money being a god, two, to actually be able to experience a softness and tenderness towards oneself and be able to like receive hugs, compliments, love, appreciation, and like this.
00:24:54
Speaker
What's been your journey in that department of healing ah from your particular upbringing? Oh, man. My friend used to joke around and say, know, you're Asian, not a B-sian. This is why need to get A's. You know, was older when was joking around because he was Asian.
00:25:16
Speaker
And so, yeah, growing ah growing up, i had I had some strong strong victimhood dialogue.
00:25:28
Speaker
You know, I was... I was so driven to prove to them, you know, who is them? I don't know. um But them, that I'm better, you know, had this, I had this story that I repeated for most of my life.
00:25:46
Speaker
and And I can say without even thinking about it because, you know, you just said this, like, hundreds and 1000 times, you know, it's like, I grew up in Houston, Texas, I was picked on, I was skinny and scared and and poor and parents didn't have any money, you know it's just, and then, know, my, my uncles and cousins, everybody was more well off. And my sister and I was a black sheep, you and that, and that story was like the fuel of, I'm going to show them that I'm better.
00:26:19
Speaker
And that fueled my, my entire life until I was 32 years old. And I worked my butt off. I mean, the reason that i was able to, you know, to get what I want in life was not because I was smarter than people, but because I could outwork them because of just pure will, you know?
00:26:39
Speaker
And, and then when I was 32 years old, I, I discovered that I wasn't the stories in my head. And that was a really big reality shattering moment in that my know, my whole entire life was created from from that one story that kind of fueled all the others, you know.
00:27:01
Speaker
And when i realized that I wasn't, you know, that was really big.
Transformative Psychedelic Journey
00:27:06
Speaker
and And then through a whole series of of ah different things in like six hours, you know, I accidentally woke up my kundalini energy.
00:27:19
Speaker
and Is this when you went through the mushroom journey you spoke about somewhere I saw? Yeah, yeah. Okay. i was in that heightened state for for like two weeks. Before you hit the heightened state in the actual journey, did you hit any place in the journey as you were kind of coming into it or whatnot where you were forced to surrender or suffer?
00:27:39
Speaker
So, i yes. And the way that ah way that bad intention came about, I was at this event and I was listening to this talk about the biggest issue that people run into. Like the fundamental thing was that they didn't feel that they were enough.
00:28:00
Speaker
People don't feel that they're enough. And when I heard that, I didn't think that that was my problem, but I thought that it was interesting because she said that that is like everybody's struggle, you know, every single person.
00:28:14
Speaker
So I said, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to hold on to that and kind of put that in back my mind. Okay, and mean like i'll I'll ponder on that. But then the second talk was a talk on authenticity by another person. and what he said was, you know if you're authentic, you don't care about how other people think of you.
00:28:35
Speaker
Because if you did, well, then you're not expressing what you want. You're expressing what others want to get something, some type of approval, acceptance. So when he said that,
00:28:46
Speaker
I immediately thought, well, yeah that's other people because I'm authentic. you know I'm a real person. and And then I started to yeah think about scenarios in my life.
00:28:58
Speaker
And then I identified, well, there's this time where you know where I did think about other people what they thought. And that is there's this time and there's that time. Before I know it, I realized, oh my God, care all the time.
00:29:11
Speaker
I'm not authentic at all. and And I was really upset by it. like it was it was really, it impacted me a lot because I actually believed that I was this really authentic person without realizing that I was not even close.
00:29:28
Speaker
And so after that moment, I told myself, um i'm I'm not okay with this. I'm not okay with being this fake person, which is the the word that I use for myself, fake person, I'm a fake person. No, no, no. I can't allow myself to be this way.
00:29:44
Speaker
From this moment, I'm going to stop caring about what other people think yeah of me. And that was the the surrender intention.
00:29:55
Speaker
And then from there, like you mentioned, you know like i shared and so before I experienced a mushroom journey, there was some MDMA involved as well. And then I was able to recognize recognize my ego, recognize the stories in my and my mind.
00:30:14
Speaker
And i spent six hours going through my entire life in every single milestone and seeing the stories that were created, you know the belief systems that were created.
00:30:26
Speaker
And during this time, i was heavily breathing. because as I as my reality was being shattered, and it was kind of scary. No, I was deep breathing. I just always remember people said to breathe when something you're being facilitated. Or was this all on your own? All all on my own.
00:30:44
Speaker
Okay, that's why I always talk always say is this was an accident. Yes. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't. I didn't know what I was doing. i didn't know why I was doing it. I only had one intention, which was to not care about what other people think of me.
00:31:00
Speaker
And from there, you know, because of the the psychedelics, I was able to shift my perspective. And then when I shared my grew up story to to some folks, I shared another version.
00:31:14
Speaker
And then I recognized as I was going through the other parts of my life that I actually shared a new version that that I never shared before. Huh. And what dawned to me is that that new version did not fit anything in my life.
00:31:30
Speaker
And that if I was to have shit have thought of my life in that new version, or if I have always you know saw my childhood in that new version, nothing in my life would have been the same.
00:31:43
Speaker
Because the whole entire drive of needing to prove working so hard, there will be no need. Everything is fine. But because i thought everything was not fine. So I worked my butt off through, through most of my life until from 14, when I started working to 32 and my life would have been different.
00:32:06
Speaker
And so that's when I realized that I would have been a different person just because of different stories in my head. So I said, wait, but that's kind of strange because I don't think I'm different right now, and I just had a new story, but I didn't change. I was looking down at myself, and i was like, I don't think I'm a different person.
00:32:24
Speaker
you know um My arm didn't change. I'm still here. So that means I can't, i who I am, can't be these stories. The stories are just like clothes. They're interchangeable. So I said, well, if I'm not the story, then what the heck are these stories in my head?
00:32:38
Speaker
What the heck is this voice? It's been there the whole time. I thought that was me. And if I'm not the voice, then what the heck am I? And that's when I had a whisper, you know, or a knowingness come through your soul.
00:32:51
Speaker
And that's when I said, oh, right. That makes sense. Because up until then, i did never I never even thought about soul. The idea i probably never rarely ever said that word.
00:33:03
Speaker
That's how that's how much I did not care about anything in that subject. And that's when I started to go through the rest of my rest of my life. One major milestone.
00:33:15
Speaker
at a time to see what other stories did I make up. And one by one, you know, there's a story about this, story about that.
00:33:26
Speaker
And as I was going through that, I remember, and I remember almost kind of being in a shock, you know, all very shocking for me. know, I didn't realize any of this.
00:33:40
Speaker
And that's when I started breathing really deeply, just in through nose, out through the mouth, just regular, didn't know what was doing, just breathing. And as I was breathing for a couple of minutes, I felt a weird sensation on the top of my head.
00:33:54
Speaker
So then I started to touch my head and it felt better to touch my head. And then the touching became light tapping, which then became hard tapping. And then eventually I was knocking on top of my head as I'm deep breathing and walking around, pacing around in this room.
00:34:09
Speaker
and speaking out loud to myself and to other people. But most people walked off and I was just speaking out loud to myself. Sometimes i would stretch because I felt like stretching.
00:34:20
Speaker
i didn't I was practicing on not caring. And I did this for six hours. And by the end of the six hours, everything changed.
00:34:31
Speaker
I had really bad injuries in my back. Prior to that, i I couldn't lay down or walk or move without pain. I'm always in pain. that The pain was gone. Disappeared. I mean, I couldn't get rid of it for nine months and it's gone in six hours.
00:34:45
Speaker
And I'm like really good at fixing my injuries because I'm a bodybuilder that throws weights around, you know, so you're always injuring yourself. And it was gone.
00:34:56
Speaker
my My mind, I, before that, I struggled to understand my managers because my mind was so loud. I couldn't understand in our meetings. We have them. They'll tell me about you this problem, and that problem.
00:35:10
Speaker
I couldn't connect the dots. It's like I just hear sounds, but there is no connection in my head. i mean, I was I was scared and very confused, and I just saw myself as being this dumb person.
00:35:25
Speaker
And I was thinking, when did this happen? Like, when did I become like this? I don't remember. You know, and I thought I was smart. I mean, built this company. We're we're doing like 1.5 million in revenue a month.
00:35:38
Speaker
And I don't know what the heck this person in front of me is telling me. What the heck is wrong with me? And I didn't tell anybody. I didn't tell anybody because I was thinking if I told somebody, what would they think of me? They lock me up. They lock they lock me up or they'll kick me out of this position. They go, Mike, you're not suitable to be the CEO of this company. And I go, you're right.
00:36:00
Speaker
Because I'm this, I was the CEO of the company. I'm running, yeah I'm running seven departments, you know? And so I didn't tell anybody, but this was happening. And, and I was just always stressed, always fighting with my girlfriend and just, but,
00:36:16
Speaker
You see, like as a, as an entrepreneur, I didn't think that there was a problem because. you know, if you can't, if you can't handle it, you know, if you can't handle stress and don't, don't go in business, right. Don't get out of there can't handle the heat. Don't be in the kitchen. Right. It's like, so fine.
00:36:33
Speaker
I chose this. Let me just let me just just try throwing more effort at it. I'm just going to effort more. Yeah, I'm just going to you know, i'm going to just man up more, you know, and all of this.
00:36:47
Speaker
My mind was so clear at the end of six hours. Let me tell you, like I was able to understand everything. Everything. There's no more fear, no more worries.
00:36:59
Speaker
My mind went silent. And my mind was so loud, I couldn't understand people. It went completely silent. And I felt so light in my body. I was literally about to levitate off the ground.
00:37:12
Speaker
Like my chest was floating up and my arms are floating up. And I'm walking around like um like I'm on helium, just like on a cloud. you know Like a person stuck in a static dance mode. but you know just Yes, yes.
00:37:23
Speaker
I've had this experience. I'm like, how am I? how am i am i i'm not Am I floating? I i think I'm floating. And I'm like, I'm a bodybuilder who's got a really heavy body and everything is always heavy and dense. This is not my body. My body never was light.
00:37:39
Speaker
What is what's going on? Yeah, I felt so good. So that made that's when I made two promises to myself. You know, the first promise is I'm never going to go back to how I was because it was like being in a dark hole in the ground, you know, chained up, blindfolded, just it was so bad.
00:37:59
Speaker
But I never knew was that bad because I i i never experienced feeling that good. So there's no reference. And once I felt that good, I'm never going back there. Forget that. you know This is what I've been looking for in my whole life. This is real happiness. Except I don't even know if this is called happiness because I don't even know what this is.
00:38:24
Speaker
Except the fact that it's happening. And i don't want to ever let it go.
Post-Transformation Commitment
00:38:31
Speaker
But what's the chances of me holding on to whatever this is when number one, I don't know what this is.
00:38:38
Speaker
Number two, I'm 32 years old. I've never experienced this. Nobody I know ever experienced this. And what's the chance of me just waking up the next morning and everything is back to normal.
00:38:52
Speaker
And I thought, because a lot of people have peak experiences that are big deal, but then it they don't have the infrastructure in their nervous system or their life to hold it. Right. So I felt logically as well. I go, yep. I think I'm goingnna wake up the next day.
00:39:08
Speaker
It's all to be gone. And it'll just be this great experience. And that's it. And I said, no, no, no, no. I'm going to do everything I can. to hold on to this. I don't care what it takes.
00:39:21
Speaker
I'm going to sacrifice because that's entrepreneur is all about sacrifice. you It's always trade off. And I said, you know, I'm going to trade off everything. I'm gonna sacrifice everything. My business, my car, my house, my clothes. I don't I don't need anything.
00:39:33
Speaker
If I can just hold on to this state this way, whatever this is, if I can just be this way. Did you sell everything? So So check this out.
00:39:45
Speaker
So then that night I'm telling my partners, my two partners, business partners, and they're like, oh, great. Yeah, that's, that's, that's nice. Mike, are you having this great experience? Mike's on mushrooms. Yeah, yeah. He's having a great time, right?
00:39:57
Speaker
That's what they're thinking. So then we go back to Austin and then I go, guys, you know, I'm going to, I'm going figure this out, you know, and that was my first promise. the second promise was I told him, i was like, I'm going to figure this out.
00:40:10
Speaker
And then I'm going what did teach everybody? I don't know what this is, but I'm going to figure it out. Trust me, whatever it takes, im figure it out. And then we're going to reach everybody because we got the largest channel on fitness on YouTube.
00:40:23
Speaker
Like we've got a strong reach. We're going to impact a lot of people. Like everybody wants this. I'm telling you, it's like, it's amazing. You know, just give me some time, you know, and I'm going to figure this out.
00:40:34
Speaker
And they looked at me and they were like, well, we can't, we can't do that. You know, like we're, we've got a fitness company, you know, we're in fitness, know, we can't do, whatever that, whatever that thing you're wanting to do, you know?
00:40:47
Speaker
And I said, yeah, we can. I go, we're the boss, we're the owners. We can do what the heck we want. You know, we started this in my freaking bedroom. We can do whatever we want. And they're like, no, look, you don't understand. Like Mike, we got salaries to pay, you know, like we can't just randomly try something, you know, just, we got, you know, we, we gotta, we gotta legitimate thing. Like we can't, we gotta stay in our lane, you know?
00:41:12
Speaker
So I looked at him. I said, you know, you're right. I totally understand. So that's fine. I'll do it myself. I'm out. And they were really surprised.
00:41:25
Speaker
They're like, wait, wait, wait. You should wait a little bit. You should think about this, you know sleep it over, and we'll talk after a little while. I said, no, no, no. No need to think about it. I'm clear.
00:41:36
Speaker
Very clear. Everything clear as ever. You know, don't worry, you know, we'll figure out my exit. We'll get my replacements, you know, but I'm out. um I'm going to figure this out. What did you feel in your body when it really sunk in that you had communicated that you're out and you knew you're out? What did you feel in your body?
00:41:55
Speaker
Nothing. Nothing. Not like a signal of like, oh, yeah, this feels like I did the right thing or i feel a little scared or just. Present. Nothing.
00:42:06
Speaker
Hmm.
00:42:10
Speaker
I was so the next day I'm talking to my girlfriend and and I was telling her you know how great I feel and you know and I told her how sorry I am for all those years of treating her just you know in that way i was like oh my god I'm sorry for this I'm sorry you know it's just Got a realization now. See everything.
00:42:38
Speaker
And then I mentioned to her about mushrooms. The moment I said the M word, she just stopped listening. Just what you did. And she was just not OK. It was just like that.
00:42:49
Speaker
And I was like, no, no, no, no. You don't understand. Like, I'm glad I did because I would have never had these realizations. And don't worry, I'm going to from now on, everything's going to be different. Like, I'm not gonna be doing. And she's like, no.
00:43:01
Speaker
i how could you how could you take these their drugs? I was like, no, you don't understand. like This is the best thing. and she wasn't yeah She wasn't really open to to to hear my my story.
00:43:16
Speaker
so Then i was just sitting there and I said, well, i'm um i'm not goingnna I'm not going to just stay away from that. I don't know what this is, but going to do whatever it takes to figure it out.
00:43:30
Speaker
She's like, well, you just you can't take that ever again. and I'm like, i I can't promise that because I don't even know what this is. I don't know what that have to do with it. I can't have any boundaries because I'm going to figure it out. I don't care if I go to the end of the earth. I'm going to figure this out.
00:43:46
Speaker
I just want to double click under that two major areas of your life where what other people thought of you used to be a really big deal showed up right after you had this transformation to see if you were really ready to let go of being organized by other people's opinions.
00:44:03
Speaker
I mean, those are two really big deal places in life for most of us. And that clarity sounds like it just kept refining itself rather than questioning itself. Right.
00:44:15
Speaker
So that conversation with her, I told her, and we're done. Yeah. And that was like a day or maybe two days after I told my partners we're done.
00:44:26
Speaker
Like I was, there was no hesitation. There was no, did I do the right thing? You just knew. It was, it was so clear. i remember I was, as she was, as she was talking and just complaining and I just sat there and watched her.
00:44:44
Speaker
And I suddenly realized how, why some people would just go into the mountains and just be by themselves and just live by themselves. And at that moment I was, imagined myself being there and just being in a mountain by myself and just live.
00:45:00
Speaker
And I would feel so happy. I didn't need anything you know that, that state, like nothing, nothing. yeah And I'll always remember, remember that, you know, because
00:45:13
Speaker
After two weeks, they the state dropped. It dropped probably at least 50% or so. My crown stayed open. It never closed.
00:45:26
Speaker
The rest of the channels, some closed up, some would open and close. They would alter. You know, I can feel it. But this never closed. Always open. Like I can just bring in my wearing suit just right up.
00:45:39
Speaker
And...
00:45:43
Speaker
And since that day, i started to dive into everything I get my hands on to figure out what really happened and and what was it, how did it work?
00:45:54
Speaker
And within and about a month and a half, two months, I'm looking around me and everybody around me is interested in consciousness, spiritual awakening, all this stuff. that was like It was like I entered into Harry Potter land.
00:46:10
Speaker
you know it was like i entered into this whole new world Because before that, I'm surrounded by just fitness people and entrepreneurs. Nobody talks about, you know you know, mystical stuff or, you know, planetary alignments. I mean, nobody talks about cacao ceremony. What the heck is that? You know, i mean, and suddenly I'm there, just everybody's just like they're saying a different language. It's like, and I was so fascinated because everything is done.
00:46:41
Speaker
I was just like this little kid, you know, at this at this candy store, you know, and just like curious. you know, I'm just sitting there having conversations with people and just learning and learning, just being so surprised. And, you I was just going all in. Everything was new.
00:46:54
Speaker
Oh, my God, everything. I mean, I had crystals. Like the last, the only time ever had experience of crystals was my mom giving me crystals when I was 16 years old and I moved out with my sister. We had our first apartment and the apartment was,
00:47:08
Speaker
She said it was really bad energy. She put crystals in the corners of my room, of the living room. And suddenly, everything was fine. I had no idea why, but I wasn't going to argue about it because suddenly I felt good and all the stuff that was happening stopped.
00:47:26
Speaker
That was my only experience 16 years ago and since that day. And then suddenly, you know I'm in this whole new world.
00:47:38
Speaker
How did this journey, this transformation or the first stage of it, because it sounds like there's multiple chapters, especially after the state dropped 50%, but how did it impact your capacities for empathy and compassion with others?
00:47:53
Speaker
Well, during those two weeks, my empathy was really, really high. I mean, it was so high i can I can see any picture, any room, and I know what the person's feeling.
00:48:04
Speaker
I know what they're thinking.
Integration of New Perspectives
00:48:06
Speaker
It flows out like words. any pig And it wasn't overwhelming. Nothing. Not at all. there There was no overwhelmness. Like there's no sense of it at all.
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah. Afterwards, when the state dropped down, I'm still, you know, much, much hundred times better than before.
00:48:28
Speaker
But realizing realizing where I was and how unconscious I was to everything. there was there was a lot of understanding, a lot of compassion.
00:48:41
Speaker
But you know the the truth was, though, I didn't know how to act. I didn't know how to be. Because i I wiped everything clean, you can say.
00:48:55
Speaker
And I was disconnected from programs, beliefs. I cleared ah law a lot of the emotions where There was like habits, all these things.
00:49:07
Speaker
I wasn't attached to things anymore. Not, I mean, let me rephrase that. There was still attachment, but there wasn't, um, I didn't know which belief systems were right and wrong, what things that were right and wrong.
00:49:22
Speaker
And so it was really difficult to operate. It was like, I'm, I'm an adult. with and with the adult experiences that I have for 32 years, but yet I couldn't trust any of the experiences because I questioned everything because i knew that I didn't know what was good for me and what wasn't.
00:49:41
Speaker
Because the last thing I want to do was to go back to create the same reality and and and outcome. But I didn't know how to create a new one. There was no guidance. There was no teacher. There nobody.
00:49:53
Speaker
So it was very was very strange. You know, it's it's it's like on the outside, somebody looks at me, you're like, it's that guy that built this successful YouTube channel and fitness so operation.
00:50:07
Speaker
And on the inside, I felt like this little kid that's just, you know, learning about life. And so I would, mean, the way that was in those years was very interesting.
00:50:21
Speaker
very, very different. i'm so I'm so different now than than the earlier days, because now I rebuilt the programs. The programs are running again, but before there were no programs, it's like they I wasn't attached to any of it. There was no um unconscious responses.
00:50:41
Speaker
I was aware of everything. And I trusted nothing of how I do things because I My choices is what created that life. And I didn't want any part of it.
00:50:53
Speaker
I wanted to create a new life. But what part do I take in? And what part do I let go? Like, what part do I keep and let go? You know, like, I don't know. And there was nobody to ask. And there's choices to be made at every moment.
00:51:07
Speaker
And so I just became like a sponge. you know I'm learning from anything and everything and just experimenting. Were there some key mentors that really were helpful and transformative through books or through in person with them?
00:51:23
Speaker
i I started to read. Before that, I didn't read.
00:51:31
Speaker
i didn't read. i really didn't. you know ah It was sixth grade when I read. And then started to read. the moment The reason I read is because I i ran into a man.
00:51:44
Speaker
i was at this party. This was maybe you know like a month after this experience. I'm at this party, and this guy comes up to me. He's like, hello. And I just say, oh, hi.
00:51:54
Speaker
It's good to meet you. He goes, And goes, hi, yeah. And then just said hello, and that was it. So I didn't think anything of it. I run to him later on that night, maybe around like 12 at midnight or 1 at this diner.
00:52:08
Speaker
And I see him again. ah i was at the diner. He comes up to me. He goes, hey, can we can I sit down? And go, sure. goes, with a couple of friends. And then he told me. He's like, so um ah Mike, right? I was like, yeah.
00:52:19
Speaker
goes, so ah two weeks ago, I didn't know who you were. However, my angels told me about you and said that I need to help you. so So I'm here and ah whatever you need, you know you have access to to to all my resources and and just whatever need to help you out.
00:52:40
Speaker
So I said, okay, okay all right. like I've been hardcore studying for a month, so there is no freaking out. There's nothing is strange now. right like What happened to me a month ago?
00:52:52
Speaker
Nothing is strange now. you know You must have liked his energy enough because I mean, I get hit up. I'm sure you do way more than I do. I get emails, unsolicited emails every day about people wanting to help me out.
00:53:04
Speaker
But it's really, they're looking to help themselves out. They're looking to get on my payroll. Well, he said that and I said, okay. So I sat there and I thought and I go, okay, well, I have some questions. He goes, yeah, sure. What do you what do you got? And I go,
00:53:23
Speaker
um what happened when we die, after we die? and And what is enlightenment, really? And also, ah how do we astral project? And I just started a firing.
00:53:35
Speaker
What's the purpose of life? Yeah, just rapid fire. And he's like, uh-huh, uh-huh. I see him writing something. And he's just like saying that like a therapist, uh-huh, yeah, yeah. He writes something else.
00:53:47
Speaker
And then so then fire off maybe like eight questions. He goes, okay. And to see him writing, And then he hands me this receipt. He just wrote on the receipt and there are 16 books and he goes, so this book is going to talk about enlightenment. you know, it's really good. And and this book talks about astral projection and that he's the one he, he introduced me to,
00:54:11
Speaker
Journeys Out of the Body, Robert Monroe, you know, and yeah and Destiny on the Body as well. And he's the one that told me to get the Paramahansa's book, you know, Autobiography of a Yogi.
00:54:22
Speaker
Such a good book. Freedom with this other yogi guy. And just Four Agreements, you know, and Toltec, the Toltec something. and And so it's just...
00:54:37
Speaker
a lot of books and I said okay and I just went on Amazon the next day and I ordered all of them and he gave me his number and he goes hey if you if you need anything just call me I said okay so then the next day he sends me a message and he goes hey uh mind if I swing by you know I said sure so then his friend drops him off and he comes to my house and no intention like I didn't know what we're gonna do it just yeah sure you know I'm remember I'm like a sponge like If you know things, come, come, let's talk, you know.
00:55:07
Speaker
And so he came by and he talked to me and he he talked to me for nine hours straight. And it was mostly him talking.
00:55:19
Speaker
Like i I've talked maybe an hour at the most. It was just him downloading me on everything. Everything that I had questions on and pretty much most things that I had no questions on because I was too new to even ask.
00:55:32
Speaker
I don't even know. That's, you know. Just telling me everything, telling me his story, his background. And let me tell you that one conversation lasted.
00:55:44
Speaker
It gave me so much insights that I used it for the next three and a half years. There were things that wasn't applicable. He would just, he's like, okay, so in the future, when this happens, here's what you need to do. And I remember like a year and a half later, two years later, three years later, I would refer back to that conversation.
00:56:01
Speaker
And I remember he told me that that's what I need to do. because there was no reference. Like, you know something interesting happens. i have no idea. um searching on the internet, but I remember the conversation. He pointed this out.
00:56:13
Speaker
And so it gave me some guidance. And I was so grateful. I didn't realize how important that conversation was that night. But over the years, I started to realize it.
00:56:25
Speaker
And even until today, you know, he's still still a good friend of mine. And now when I talk to people, I don't know what my conversation is going to impact them on and I don't care. I just know that there might be a chance that it's the thing that's going to help them out or it just might be a little seed to sprout later on. Who knows?
00:56:47
Speaker
I don't care. i just know I'm going to, I'm going to just broadcast and just share to whoever wants to hear or who I feel needs to hear. And I'm just going to, with all my energy,
00:57:00
Speaker
Don't hold back anything. I'm just going to say whatever I feel is authentic or whatever I think they need or what they're telling, what they're asking. Because who never, we don't know what our conversation is going to do.
00:57:12
Speaker
And I had a handful of these. That one was really, really impactful. But I had a handful that just changed everything. What have you learned from that point on when you started sharing stuff? What have you learned? I know I've learned so much as a teacher and a facilitator through just a lot of experience, some easy, some hard.
00:57:31
Speaker
What have you had to learn about how you teach, how you share, how you frame things, and how you're how your ego is involved or not in the teaching process?
00:57:42
Speaker
Like example being for me, i remember early on in the first kind of 10 years, like really exacting a lot more force than was ever useful or necessary. And it got a lot to happen with people, but it was expensive to me. So I had to learn the lesson of like, do less, like,
00:58:02
Speaker
learn to energetically um draw them out without giving them all the answers and spoon feeding. i had an early mentor who was the one who actually trained me to train people in breath work.
00:58:13
Speaker
And he would say, spoon feed people too much, Scott. You try and give them everything. I didn't see that that was my need to fit in. still showing up in different ways, trying to to give them everything, go over time, give them extra time, give them books, give them this.
00:58:29
Speaker
And i had to learn, wow, I'm not giving them the space to develop their muscles. What kind of lessons have you had to learn as a teacher around that kind of thing? So I had different types of you know, do it this way, do it that way. You know, one of them was like what you mentioned, right? Just give them space and don't do too much.
00:58:49
Speaker
And then the other one is just give them everything you got. And then i I came to realize, I don't feel like there's a a right a right way or wrong way.
00:59:02
Speaker
You know, it's it's like some people need this and some people don't. Some people Give me everything. Go above and beyond. And I will receive everything and execute like you don't even know.
00:59:16
Speaker
And then some people would just be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. i got to run. and And you're like, you know, you canceled your meetings to just help this person. We never know. So personally for me, now I just, I do what what I feel is right at the moment. I don't i don't have any structure on it.
00:59:37
Speaker
I really don't. If if i feel like just broadcasting and just going above and beyond and as I'm also present with what's happening, because, you know, there's there's what I think is right and to do at this moment.
00:59:51
Speaker
But at this moment, I'm also observing what's happening on the other side as well. And so the combination of the two, you know, if I'm energized and I'm ready to go in and and share and then I can see that it's not received, it doesn't want to be received and therefore is turning into force.
01:00:08
Speaker
and I notice it, well, then I'm going to draw it back because and don't want to force this person. But on the other hand, if, uh, if I'm doing that and the other end is receiving it great.
01:00:19
Speaker
Or if somebody goes, give it to me, give it to me. I'm so beat. I'm just, I'm just so tired. Then I'm just going to give them what I got, but it may not be that much because I don't got any more.
01:00:31
Speaker
Yeah. and So I don't, uh, I don't operate off of any, any this is this way or that way i just i just do what i uh what flows in the moment you know i'm just i'm just present i have a natural there's a natural tendency you know my natural tendency is like the way we are now like we're in person we'll just be like this know yeah if i'm if i talk to my wife we talk like this don't even change my tone we just talk like this so that's just kind of natural But if i if I see the other person and and it's it's like rubbing them wrong way, you know then i then I would tailor back.
01:01:10
Speaker
But if everything is fine, I'm just going to you know just just go on a flow and just do what feels good. I imagine a big learning curve for many people could be, and maybe has been for you, um having children.
Parenting and Acceptance
01:01:22
Speaker
you have You have kids, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's a whole other thing. Like their capacity is whatever it is in a given moment. And like mom and dad might want them to experience or feel or do some sort of a way, but like the, the empathy goes, Oh, he's tapped out.
01:01:39
Speaker
He's tapped out. I can't, I can't get him to do more. And if I try, it's going to create, you know, trauma for him. Yes. You know, the, a big lesson that I, that I'm learning all the time, I'm always having to be reminded.
01:01:53
Speaker
Uh, is accepting them for where they're at, accepting them at where at the stage that they're at. I have intentions, but i also I also need to see this is where he's at and just let him be there. you know Let him be there.
01:02:12
Speaker
But then at the same time, there's that question of, well, when do you know to just let it be? And when do you know you need to step in? and Because ah ah another friend of mine ah told me ah told me this line.
01:02:23
Speaker
it's like one of those things. it's another Random conversation. we can We talked for about like 30 minutes. And this one line out of the whole conversation stood out for the last five years already.
01:02:35
Speaker
and And it is, have the strength to have the strength to change what needs to be changed. Have the strength to accept what needs to be accepted.
01:02:48
Speaker
And have the wisdom to know the difference. And And I remember listening and it wasn't exactly the way that I was fully operating because I thought, you know, just accept, accept, accept, accept people who they are, accept myself, accept everything, be present with everything.
01:03:06
Speaker
But what he said was not that. What he said was basically, if you need a force, force.
01:03:14
Speaker
And you need to accept, accept. It sounds like it comes from the the serenity prayer, God grant me the strength. they God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
01:03:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that's the that's very similar. Maybe it was that, and over the years, the words changed a little bit.
01:03:42
Speaker
but Yeah, yeah. But the essence is like that. But that discernment piece, like discerning, you know, like, is this my unprocessed ego having an agenda?
01:03:53
Speaker
Or is this actually the best way forward for everyone involved in that? And how do I know? What is my way of knowing that? Is it just a thought I have? Is it a somatic sensation through my body? How do I know what I know when I feel it's true and right and good?
01:04:09
Speaker
I don't even question it.
01:04:12
Speaker
Well, that's when I think knowing is knowing, you just know. But I'm thinking, you know, because I'm thinking of the listeners, right? People are ah so, such a spectrum of development and there's people listening, they're like, wow, I want to know the way these guys are talking about knowing.
01:04:27
Speaker
I'm not sure I recognize the difference between my thoughts, my ordinary thoughts and that way of just knowing something, just full being, I just know. Well, a person can do this.
01:04:38
Speaker
Let's say they they don't question themselves. Don't question yourself. just Just go and say what you want to say. Do what you want to And now two things will happen.
01:04:50
Speaker
Either A, you did the right things or you did it in the best way and everything is fine. People are happy. The outcomes are great. B, people are not happy.
01:05:01
Speaker
The outcomes are not great. They told you, God, leave me. you were just ah You really hurt me my feelings and what you said. Okay, so then okay so then if a person comes back or there's a very obvious outcome that the situation is not good, then it's very clear.
01:05:21
Speaker
Change. Change that thing. Don't do it in that way. Now, and vice versa, if there's no clear response, you know, reaction coming from others or or coming from the the deal, then everything is fine.
01:05:36
Speaker
But Always be confident in what you do. Don't ever second guess yourself. Because this is what tell my students. I go, you know, there are people who are really smart. They know the answer to everything, but they're unconfident.
01:05:53
Speaker
And so they're they they don't they don't trust themselves. i mean, they're so smart. They know they are accurate in everything, but they don't trust themselves. They don't have any belief. And so when they share things, when they communicate things,
01:06:07
Speaker
It's with a sense of doubt. And but they're right now on the other hand, there are people who are wrong, who don't know the thing, and they also communicate with doubt and and lack of trust.
01:06:24
Speaker
Now, there's also the opposite. Somebody who knows that knows the correct things and say it with confidence. or people that don't know the right things.
01:06:35
Speaker
They know the wrong things and they say the wrong things with confidence and self-trust. Yeah. so So I said, so in this case, if you practice, you can either know the right things and be unconfident or or you can.
01:06:54
Speaker
um so I told him, so here's what you need to do. Practice just being confident and let go of doubting yourself. And even if you say the wrong things, say it with confidence, say it with full self-trust.
01:07:10
Speaker
And then when you figured out that it was wrong, great, make a change. And next time, say it with full confidence and say it with full self-trust. And if it was wrong, great, make a change.
01:07:22
Speaker
And next time, say it with full confidence, say it with
Confidence and Self-Trust in Expression
01:07:26
Speaker
self-belief. And then what happens is Whether or not you know the right or wrong answers doesn't matter, but you will always be confident in your expression and who you are.
01:07:36
Speaker
Reminds me about, have you heard of Jefferson Fisher? He's been making the rounds. He's got a book out. It's called the next conversation. He's from a long lineage of trial lawyers and judges who know that their business is not the law, their business is communication.
01:07:49
Speaker
He's in his thirties. He's really good at, it and he says, whenever you say something, says a lot of good things, say it with confidence, say it with control and say it to connect. And that's the piece that I find that some people are missing. it kind of reminds me of, um to a degree, the compassion we were talking about. Cho Gyum Trungpa, who was one of the first Tibetan monks who fleed the the Chinese regime and then made it eventually to the States and founded Naropa University and Shambhala meditation and like this.
01:08:18
Speaker
And he would say, you know, there's a lot of people out there who have um some degree of wisdom. He says, but I say this, unless you've suffered enough, I don't trust your wisdom because it has no compassion in it.
01:08:32
Speaker
I either, there's no ability to really connect, to cross a bridge with people, that compassion piece from having gone through suffering and understanding that the life for most people is suffering.
01:08:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think, um,
01:08:51
Speaker
it's true. But when i when when I express, I just i just let it be. i just I just say whatever whatever is there at the moment. there's yeah and And maybe and maybe i i did too much, but I didn't do enough.
01:09:12
Speaker
If it's the case, I'm gonna find out. Maybe I find out right away, or maybe I find out late. But that's the cool thing is you're open to the feedback loop. You know, you're not just like, I know best and everybody else can go F off if they don't like what I say. You're like, you're paying attention for the feedback from life.
01:09:30
Speaker
I'm okay with doing a crappy job. It's what I'm okay with. Honestly, i I don't care. You know, I'm okay with doing a crappy job. What's a big deal? Who cares? All right. So I'm going to say what I want to say.
01:09:41
Speaker
And if I do a crappy job, I do a crappy job. Good. You go tell me, Hey, Mike, you did a crappy job. Oh, great. What can I improve on this, this, this, this. Great, thanks. And next time I'm going deliver, make some changes and then not care if I do a crappy job. And who knows? Maybe I do a crappy job or a good job.
01:09:57
Speaker
Who cares? Well, tell me if I'm following it because it doesn't sound, it sounds to me like when you say you're open to the feedback, I hear that you actually do care. It's just when you say I don't care, it sounds like what I'm hearing is back from that mushroom journey is that you're not letting it contract your sense of self if you've messed up.
01:10:16
Speaker
Like you care to do, to grow. It's obvious. I wouldn don't think we'd be having this conversation and you wouldn't be listening to feedback after the fact you care to grow, but you're not making it, you're not letting what people think, or even if you mess up and you know it, you're not letting it um crush you or tell you who you are.
01:10:34
Speaker
Am I following?
01:10:37
Speaker
So growth is going to happen either way. Like that you can't stop it. Yeah. And so I don't focus on growing. there's there's To me, there's no need because that's like that's like me focusing on um living.
01:10:54
Speaker
Like, no, going focus on eating. going to focus on sleeping and moving. and you know And by default, I'm going to live. you know yeah And so I don't focus on it. I focus on the moment and I focus on people, what they want, what they need, how can I serve them?
01:11:11
Speaker
And part of serving them is listening to them, hearing what they're saying, hearing what they need. and then And I'm trying to serve them. So they go, Mike, can you serve me in this way? Yeah.
01:11:22
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. But that's very different than people pleasing because if your inner knowing is like, No, I actually can't serve you in that way. That doesn't feel productive, or I'm just absolutely not available for that kind of and engagement. and i And that's it. and Yeah. Yeah.
01:11:36
Speaker
So there's this openness that also has clarity about boundaries. Yeah. Yeah. If for the listeners, I want to dive into some specifics, because it's going to leave a lot of questions.
01:11:49
Speaker
So here's something that i that I figured out over years.
01:11:56
Speaker
So then that means there's still a sense of self there.
01:12:00
Speaker
But how do we how do we make a plan but not be attached to the plan? right How do we go and share authentically but still listen and care? So we have different layers of mind.
01:12:13
Speaker
you know There's different, or you can say, the level of our ego adjusts. And what I realized is that when our conscious mind is loud, when we are um having a strong voice inside, that's about ourself.
01:12:30
Speaker
you I am this, I am that, I want this. When that is happening, this dialogue in our mind is loud. That means our ego is big at the moment, especially when we're focused on ourself.
01:12:41
Speaker
The more focus on ourself, the bigger the ego. So then when we calm that voice and we silence the voice, so if I listen to my mind,
01:12:51
Speaker
no sound. But I can still be aware of myself. There's just not a dialogue of I this, me that. But I'm aware of myself.
01:13:02
Speaker
So then ego is still present. But once I'm not having a dialogue in my mind, ego is already lower. So if I do get upset about something, the intensity of the emotion is lower.
01:13:17
Speaker
If I do get attached to something, the attachment level is lower, but it's still there because I'm still aware of myself. So then now I take the next thing. I don't, I let go of being aware of myself.
01:13:31
Speaker
So then what am I aware of? Well, Take a pick, you know, this tree, this person, this project, something else out of myself. And then now the ego shrinks down even more, but it's still there because I can still tell the difference between me and everything else.
01:13:49
Speaker
So there's still ego, but it's lower. So now when I make plans they don't happen or when I do a crappy job, the attachment or the upsetness is less in intensity.
01:14:04
Speaker
And so I found that for me, I i just, I stay often in that that last place, second to last, I bounce around.
01:14:15
Speaker
And sometimes I'll shoot up and then I notice a dialogue in my head and I'm thinking about myself. And then once I notice that, the second thing I notice almost immediately is emotions, strong emotions come through.
01:14:30
Speaker
And then when this happens, they go, oh, right. Let it go. And then I bring my attention back to the presence and it drops down to the level two. And then, you know i can, I can shake around a little bit, clear some, clear some energy from the body.
01:14:42
Speaker
The mind clears a little bit. I'm back. No big deal. and So it happens, but it's not, it's not, uh, it's not very, it's not very often because I spent so many years practicing and unconsciously practicing because it's almost contradicting. If you're wanting to practice the act of wanting, therefore, prevent you from doing this. Yeah.
01:15:04
Speaker
So it's a it's a you know, it's like this delicate, delicate shift. And, you know, the way I found this out, because before I thought it was all about thoughts, I thought it's just about clear thoughts, clear thoughts, and then everything is great.
01:15:19
Speaker
And then I realized that it wasn't thoughts. It was more. And the way that I realized this was before my first ah child, my wife was eight months pregnant and we were in my bedroom.
01:15:34
Speaker
This was in or our bedroom and we're in Bali and she was sitting on the ground and and we were talking about something and then she looks up at me she goes, Mike, so, um, what are we going to Like, know, baby's coming and she's, we're eight months old. She's huge. You know, she looks up, she's like, baby's coming.
01:15:53
Speaker
And We're running low on savings. What are we going to do? And I told her, I was like, well, you know, no problem. You know, I'll go ahead and film the programs and we'll build a website and then we'll, know, we'll do this. We'll do that.
01:16:07
Speaker
know, because I'm good at sharing those things. She looks up at me. She goes, well, but you've been saying this for the last three and a half years. When you going to do it? And my finger came up and my mouth opened. I was about to go and just defend myself. Oh, no, no, no Here's why.
01:16:25
Speaker
I was about to, but I didn't. I just had my finger up and I looked at her and I realized that there was no need to defend myself.
01:16:36
Speaker
I realized this is what I was about to do. i'm about but to defend myself and there was no need. she She was just telling me the truth. She was in no type of like attacking. She was in this almost very neutral, almost like vulnerable because she's like so pregnant. like, wow.
01:16:52
Speaker
and i was like wow She's saying the truth. So then I put my finger down, closed my mouth. I just looked at her for a moment. And then I said, okay, I'm going to do it. And then I walked out of the room.
01:17:04
Speaker
And I remember clearly it was about almost nine o'clock at night and I got to work. And i worked till 2 a.m. m that night. And then I went to bed and then I woke up the next morning and I worked.
01:17:17
Speaker
And worked all the till night and I worked every day like that. um feeling such a burst of joy and love in my chest.
01:17:29
Speaker
That's service. That is service. I just and and then here's the test. Right. So my son is born.
01:17:41
Speaker
My sister is not doing well. She was diagnosed with stage four cervical cancer, yeah like maybe couple of months before then. So then My son is about two weeks old.
01:17:56
Speaker
And i get a call from her friend that says, Annie's passed. She's gone. Can you come to the U.S. to go to the funeral, wrap up a lot of stuff?
01:18:11
Speaker
And I'm here. And I've got my wife that needs me because she's just two weeks in. and And then there's my sister just passed. And I'm full blown working every day.
01:18:24
Speaker
Yeah. and And so I had to be really, had to be really truthful and to myself. And I said, and I and looked at and I asked myself this question, where am i What would, what would happen if I didn't go there?
01:18:41
Speaker
Can I, how could I help? How can I serve this situation? What's the most important? And I realized the most important, well, she's gone already. So. the funeral and stuff, all this stuff, is that is that as important as her life? Or is that almost just, it's just like, to me, it was like almost just details. Like life is the most important, not the clothes, not the ceremonies. Like to me, it was life.
01:19:09
Speaker
And the other one was life. What would happen if I'm not there, you know, for my wife and son? yeah So, I told her friends, i was like i I can't come.
01:19:20
Speaker
I'll do what I can from here. So then I was just the person that was, you know, just helping everybody with their emotions and just talking it through and making decisions while I'm there serving my wife and son.
01:19:32
Speaker
and And between all of that, just working. So now fast forward six months from the day that I told her I'm going to start working. I looked down one night and i realized I got so much work done in the last six months.
01:19:47
Speaker
regardless of having a newborn son, sister past, she's only a year and a half older than me. And I got so much done. And I remember scratching my head and going, how did I become so productive? How could I have done so much?
01:20:03
Speaker
Am I doing a new strategy? Did i learn something?
Realization of Selflessness and Anxiety
01:20:06
Speaker
And I realized, nope, nothing's changed. i haven't dived into anything. And then I remember looking at my calendar and my calendar was full, meetings and all this stuff.
01:20:15
Speaker
And I remember that six months prior, I didn't want to work off of a calendar. I didn't want to have this thing control me. And now I don't seem to care.
01:20:27
Speaker
I just, I just do it because it's needed. Yeah. And I said, okay, well, that's the only thing that was different. Then I thought, well, that means I haven't really been thinking about what I want.
01:20:39
Speaker
Because every time when I think about what I want, it's living this you know, cafe life with my laptop and just floating around, you know, Bali lifestyle. That's what I want. And here I go six months in.
01:20:51
Speaker
I haven't thought about what I want. I've been just, just focusing on working, just doing what I needed to do to support my family and my sister. And so I said, okay, so I haven't been thinking about what I want.
01:21:03
Speaker
I haven't really been thinking about my desire or me. Oh, right. Then that means I've been acting selflessly. Right. That's what all the teachings about being selfless was.
01:21:18
Speaker
It wasn't just helping people, helping people. It was not thinking about me. Right. Then that's the, you know, let go of the ego because ego is self.
01:21:30
Speaker
And said, oh my God, I get it now. And the moment that I got it, guess what? Anxiety kicked in.
01:21:38
Speaker
And I said, oh, and then I stopped. I went back to work and then slowly it was like tinkering there. And because what happened right when I realized that I was, you know, you know, was doing this and accomplishing this, the sense of me came right back and the moment it came right back.
01:22:02
Speaker
So did the anxiety. So then since that day, that was now over three years ago, that was like the last major milestone, the biggest shift in my consciousness and state, you can say.
01:22:20
Speaker
And since that day, now I've gotten a lot better at staying in that state because there are times where I just i fall out of it and I go, okay, how can I get back in? and I can't stay in it for really long and then trying to be aware on whether or not I'm in it takes me out because I can't be aware of myself.
01:22:37
Speaker
So then now I've gotten much better and my output and what I'm able to do has has just been beyond what I could imagine.
Importance of Personal Desires
01:22:50
Speaker
Well, this leads in perfectly to to beginning to wrap up here and with the question I ask every guest, and it's based on this quote that I've loved for so long from Shinryo Suzuki Roshi, the Zen master who opened the San Francisco Zen Center in the 1960s.
01:23:05
Speaker
And he did suffer a lot growing up and had a tremendous compassion and a tremendous fierce clarity. And he would say, death is certain, but time is not.
01:23:18
Speaker
What is the most important thing?
01:23:25
Speaker
so is the question like what is the most important thing for me what i think is most however you hear it ah this is zen remember right a sound of one hand clapping ah yeah exactly
01:23:43
Speaker
you know what i think is the most important is doing what doing what we want for me doing what i want for you or anybody else doing what they want That's what I think is the most important.
01:23:58
Speaker
If somebody wants changes, great, better change. But I think when we do what we want, then the act of doing so changes us. It's not just the getting what we want part. It's the act of pursuing what we want.
01:24:16
Speaker
Because then that means there's a lot of things that happen. If I go after to what I want, then that means automatically it's I, don't I'm not afraid of the resistance or or failure or what people think because if I was, I can't go after to what I want.
01:24:32
Speaker
What happens somebody else doesn't want that? I don't know. And automatically, those things are not there. If I go after what I want, then that means I accept my desire.
01:24:43
Speaker
That means because it's what I want. If I don't go after what I want, then how can I accept who I am? And then I would have to say, well, you know I would question it and go, well, am Am I supposed to want this or am I not?
01:24:56
Speaker
And I can't accept who why I am. And by default, you know, ah I stay stuck in my my sense of self. Yeah. So that's ah that's what I think is the most important. I think it allows a person to be free.
01:25:12
Speaker
And when a person is free. That level of of joy. the ability for them to accomplish their purpose, what they really were here to do, because everybody has programs innate in them.
01:25:27
Speaker
There were experiences that led up to this moment when they want X. And therefore, if we don't go after what we want, then we are saying that all of those things that happened before was not supposed to happen.
01:25:40
Speaker
Because right now i and my desire is this. And if I don't go after what I want, I'm saying that I shouldn't have this desire. If I shouldn't have this desire, then that means all of those things that happen and the way I am and all that should not have happened because if it was supposed to happen, then my desire is valid at this moment.
01:25:59
Speaker
And if my desire was to eat this cake, but I don't want to eat this cake because I know it's not good, then the final desire is don't eat this cake. That means I have a craving, but what I want is to stop eating it.
01:26:13
Speaker
So I still do what I want. Stop.
Conclusion and Gratitude
01:26:17
Speaker
Right. So it's not like it's just go do random things. No, there is a clear intention that a person wants and they should execute it always to the best of their, of their ability.
01:26:29
Speaker
Thank you. And thank you for this juicy dialogue. It's fun being with you. I'm sure we could talk for hours and hours and hours and and even hang out and not talk for hours and hours and hours and have a great time. That would even be fun too.
01:26:41
Speaker
So thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for everything you've lived, the stuff we don't even know about that you've gone through that brought you to this moment. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much, Scott, for allowing this conversation. I really enjoyed it. Yes. Very, very, um, really good questions, very thoughtful ones. And, and I'm i'm happy that you're here.
01:27:04
Speaker
spreading wisdom, spreading knowledge to the world. ah that's great to It's great to meet individuals like yourself. So everybody, we're gonna come back to the beginning and take a few moments to just to be together in quiet and silence. And for some of you that might feel like new or like, what am I supposed to experience?
01:27:19
Speaker
There's no
Closing Reflections and Future Episodes
01:27:20
Speaker
right experience. Just to actually let the mind settle by letting the exhale slow down, soften the soles of the feet and the palms of the hands like you're opening imaginary fists with your mind.
01:27:31
Speaker
And we'll just be together for a few moments here at the end, noticing whatever you notice, reflecting however you reflect.
01:27:47
Speaker
Loving the episode? Click to follow, like, and share it as widely as possible. Want to go deeper with the choice to grow? Explore the show notes. You'll find links there for going deeper with our guests, as well as how to work with me in the work of waking up, growing up, cleaning up, and showing up.
01:28:08
Speaker
Thanks for listening. Can't wait to join you in the next episode.