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Hot Pursuit: A True Crime Podcast Collaboration (Part 1)
2.5k Plays4 months ago
Welcome to Hot Pursuit, a summer true-crime collaboration, where we dive deep into the world of true crime. We’ve gathered many incredible true-crime podcasters to bring you a multi-part series that’s all about the heat of the chase. We'll explore cases where justice was relentlessly pursued, delve into crimes that occurred during the scorching summer months, and highlight cold cases that desperately need some heating up. From heart-pounding pursuits to stories of perseverance and determination, this collaborative effort aims to shed light on cases that have captivated the public’s imagination and those that need your attention now more than ever.
In episode 1 you’ll hear from the following podcasters (in order); if you enjoy listening, please check out their podcasts by clicking their link below:
Fresh Hell https://freshhellpodcast.com/
The Trail Went Cold https://www.trailwentcold.com/
Suffer the Little Children https://linktr.ee/stlcpod
Music City 911 https://musiccity911.com/
Already Gone https://www.instagram.com/alreadygonepod/
Sirens: A Southern True Crime Podcast Https://bit.ly/TheSirensNetwork
Www.thesirenspodcast.com
Everything Scary https://linktr.ee/everythingscary
Private Dicks https://linktr.ee/privatedicks
In episode 2 you’ll hear from the following podcasters (in order); if you enjoy listening, please check out their podcasts by clicking their link below:
The Dark Oak Podcast The Dark Oak | Podcast on Spotify
thedarkoak.com
Key to the Case https://linktr.ee/keytothecase
True Crime Creepers https://linktr.ee/TrueCrimeCreepers
Vintage Homicide https://linktr.ee/vintagehomicidepodcast
Excuse Me, That’s Illegal www.linktr.ee/excusemethatsillegal.pod
Beyond the Rainbow https://beyondtherainbowpodcast.com
Murder and Mimosas https://linktr.ee/murder.mimosas.pod?utm_source=linktree_admin_share
Coffee and Cases https://linktr.ee/coffeeandcases
Method and Madness Method & Madness Podcast (methodandmadnesspodcast.com)
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Hot Pursuit
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to Hot Pursuit, a summer true crime collaboration where we dive deep into the world of true crime. I'm your host Kristin from True Crime Creepers, my co-host Allison from Coffee and Cases, and I are bringing you something extra special. We've gathered many incredible true crime podcasters to bring you a multi-part series that's all about the heat of the chase. We'll explore cases where justice was relentlessly pursued, delve into crimes that occurred during the scorching summer months, and highlight cold cases that desperately need some heating up. From heart-pounding pursuits to stories of perseverance and determination, this collaborative effort aims to shed light on cases that have captivated the public's imagination
00:00:58
Speaker
and those that need your attention now more than ever. Each of these stories reminds us of the enduring quest for justice, no matter the season or the circumstances. So let's dive into these incredible tales of hot pursuit.
Fresh Hell Podcast and Austrian Case
00:01:16
Speaker
Kicking off our series, we have Annie and Johanna from Fresh Hell podcast. Each week they take their listeners on a historical journey through dark cases and through tales of the macabre in the hot pursuit of truth. Hi, I'm Annie from the United States. And I'm Johanna from Austria and this is Fresh Hell Podcast hosted by two friends who have never met in real life. Fresh Hell is the podcast for you if you enjoy murder, mystery, and the macabre throughout history. We mostly cover old-timey cases, the paranormal, some cryptozoology, and of course some more light-hearted palette cleanser episodes sprinkled in every now and then.
00:01:56
Speaker
We were so thrilled to be asked to participate in this hot pursuit collaboration about crimes that took place in the summertime and so today we're diving into a tragic and very disturbing case from Austria. It's the story of Anna Augustine, a young maid who faced unimaginable abuse and we covered this case more in depth in episode 141.
Tragic Murder of Anna Augustine
00:02:19
Speaker
So this is a condensed version. This is a very upsetting crime. I remember when you told me about this and I still think about this one every now and then. This is one that sort of gets lodged in the back of your brain for good. Anna Augustine was born around 1920 in Manastuffe in Boerngland, Austria. Boerngland is an area that became Austria's ninth and final state in 1921 and it was primarily agricultural and many families lived in poverty.
00:02:49
Speaker
Very often the children of those impoverished families would be sent away to work as maids or farmhands in other places. In 1934, while around 14 years old, Anna took a job as a maid for a wealthy couple, Josefina and Edmund Luna. So she started working young, which was common back then. She was probably proud to be considered a grown-up and be able to help support the family with her additional income. And at first, everything seemed fine. Anna wrote letters home expressing her excitement about her new life. The lunar children liked her, and she was seen as kind and hardworking. But soon, things took a dark turn. Neighbors began noticing changes in Anna.
00:03:32
Speaker
she grew thinner and more withdrawn always accompanied by yosefina who had a reputation for being stern what nobody knew was behind the closed doors of the lunar household ana was subjected to severe abuse She was frequently beaten with various objects, starved and sometimes only fed potato peels and even had her hair forcibly cut off by Josefina. Anna was forced to sleep in a cold stone cellar and wash with cold water. Her condition deteriorated rapidly. Unfortunately, no one raised concerns as Anna was just a young maid and the loonas were considered a respectable household. By July of 1935, Anna had disappeared. Josefina claimed she sent Anna back to her family because she was lazy and immoral.
00:04:21
Speaker
But of course, Anna hadn't returned to her family. The truth was extremely sinister, and it would all be uncovered by mid-July. On July 17, 1935, Edmund Lunar reported Josefina missing and revealed that their maid, Anna, who was dead. Edmund told the police that Josefina had been acting strangely and had left home on July 15. When she didn't return, he found her passport and letters indicating Anna's death. The letters informed him that Anna Augustine was dead, but Josefina didn't explain what had happened to the girl. Edmund then climbed up the stairs to the attic.
00:05:06
Speaker
where the maid's room was located. On his way up, he could already smell a horrible scent of decay. When he entered the room, he found Anna's emaciated body on her cot. She must have been dead for quite some time already. The body looked almost mummified, and maggots were crawling all over the young girl's face. Edmund left the house in horror and immediately went to his lawyer who convinced his client to go to the police. When the police entered the maid's room, they were absolutely horrified about what they found. Anna Augustine must have been dead for at least one week already. Fluid had leaked out of her body onto the cot. The police had to cut the body off the bed to even be able to transport her.
00:05:53
Speaker
The terrible extent of Anna's injuries came to light during the examination. Her body showed many large bruises and burns. Her tongue was burned probably with a hot iron poker, as were her genitals. She was extremely underweight, showing only a very low percentage of body fat. Even though it was not clear which of the injuries was the lethal one in the end, it was still glaringly obvious that this was not a natural death. When questioned about his wife, Edmund described Josefina as someone who had no friends or family who liked her, a sentiment shared by neighbors.
00:06:26
Speaker
The police quickly suspected her to be responsible for Anna's death. They also dug into her background and found a troubling history. heosina was born in eighteen ninety three and had a troubled childhood her father was an alcoholic male man who died young and her mother remarried and had ten more children of which only six survived At 16, Josefina left home, working various jobs, often returning drunk. One of her roommates later remembered that one time she came home, lay down on the kitchen floor, and yelled, I'm the Mona Lisa, over and over again. Friends from that time would later describe her as sensual. Someone who loved to gloat, lies a lot, and was an imposter.
00:07:15
Speaker
That's actually a direct quote from a newspaper article from the Neues Wiener Schonal from 20th of September 1936 by the way. So to me she sounds like these kind of people who always want to be more than they are. And the sensual part, well that was called for she had a couple of relationships or affairs. She had a history of instability from a very early age. In 1913 she was involved with a man named Egon Tobner who died in WWI. Josefina manipulated Egon's mother into supporting her financially, moving in with her and treating her poorly until the woman's death, under mysterious circumstances in 1926. Josefina was if he of a suspected, but never charged. She met Edmund Luna in 1916, married him in 1918 and continued her manipulative ways. They had two children and moved into a mansion in Fuada Barul by Mödling.
00:08:10
Speaker
That's just right outside of Vienna down north. And Anna hadn't been the only maid she had treated badly. Josefina did have a history of cruel treatments of maids leading to multiple abuse cases before Anna's death. The investigators uncovered all this and were absolutely certain they needed to find and charge Josefina Luna. The police launched a manhunt. She was found only one day later on the 18th of July. An acquainted couple had recognized her walking around in the 23rd District. and they asked her to come and have lunch in a nearby restaurant. While the woman was distracting Josefina, the man went and called the police. When authorities arrived, Josefina looked very pale and only asked to be taken without causing a big sensation. She didn't resist her arrest and followed the police quietly.
00:09:00
Speaker
When asked about her whereabouts during the last three days, she stated that she had been wandering around aimlessly. All in all, she behaved rather confused and claimed she couldn't remember a lot of things, like when she was asked her age, she replied, very, very old. She was 43, by the way, so. She was arrested and brought to trial. Josefina claimed that she was in a innocent, that Anna had suffered from a verr rare autoimmune disease that had ultimately caused her death. But that was of course not true. The trial revealed the full extent of Josefina's cruelty as witnesses testified about the severe abuse Anna endured.
00:09:40
Speaker
Josefina's defense tried to paint Anna as problematic, but the evidence was overwhelming. The trial ended on 7th October 1936. Josefina Luna was found guilty of murder and sentenced to death by hanging. When the verdict was announced, Josefina didn't show the tiniest sign of an emotion. She didn't even bat an eye. Justice was served, and Anna Augustine's tragic death is a stark reminder of the hidden horrors that can happen behind closed doors. Her story underscores the importance of vigilance and compassion in protecting the vulnerable. If you found this story compelling and are interested in learning about more historical crime cases, please subscribe to Fresh Hell Podcast on your podcast app. And remember, if you're going through hell, keep going. Tchuss. Bye.
Disappearance of Mitchell Weiser and Bonita Biquit
00:10:31
Speaker
Up next, welcome Robin Warder from the Trail Went Cold podcast, whose quest for justice brings even the coldest cases back to life. Hello, everyone. This is Robin Warder, host of the True Crime podcast, The Trail Went Cold. If you haven't heard of my show, it's a weekly podcast which releases a new episode every Wednesday about a different cold case or unsolved mystery. The trail went cold has been around for eight and a half years now and we've covered over 400 unsolved murders and disappearances but one missing person's case I have always been intrigued by and have yet to cover is the disappearance of a teenage couple named Mitchell Weiser and Bonita Biquit which took place over a half century ago during the summer of 1973.
00:11:16
Speaker
I'm sure there are some aspects of the story which might seem surprising by today's standards, but you have to remember that the world was a much different place 51 years ago. Mitchell Wiser was 16 years old at the time, while his girlfriend Bonita Bikwit, who went by the name Bonnie, was 15. They both hailed from Brooklyn, New York, and were considered to be very popular and intelligent teenagers who attended an alternative school for gifted, high achieving students. They each had summer jobs, as Mitchell was employed as a photography assistant at Chelsea Photographers in Coney Island, while Bonnie traveled nearly 100 miles to the hamlet of Narrowsburg, located in the Catskills region of Sullivan County, where she found employment as a mother's helper at Camp Wellmet.
00:12:04
Speaker
The couple made plans to attend an outdoor rock music festival called Summer Jam at Watkins Glen, which would feature performances from such iconic groups as The Band, The Allman Brothers Band, and The Grateful Dead. The concert was scheduled to take place on July the 28th, and the plan was for Mitchell to meet Bonnie at Camp Wellmet, where they would proceed to hitchhike the 155 mile distance from Narrowsburg to Watkins Glen. Yeah, I know that these days, it is universally recognized that hitchhiking is a very dangerous form of travel, but it was much more common during the 1970s, even for teenagers like Mitchell and Bonnie. On July the 26th, Mitchell traveled by bus from New York City to Camp Wellmet and learned that Bonnie had just quit her job.
00:12:49
Speaker
She apparently had issues with the family she was babysitting for, and had asked for time off to attend Summer Jam, but when they refused to comply with her requests, Bonnie decided to quit, and said she would return after the festival to collect her clothing and final paycheck. The following day, Mitchell and Bonnie set out on their trip together, and a truck driver would later recall giving them a brief ride from the camp to Narrowsburg before they went their separate ways. The following day, Summer Jam took place at the Watkins Glen Grand Prix Raceway, but while around 150,000 tickets had been sold in advance, a lot more people showed up there than expected, and many of them essentially got to experience a free concert. There was so much chaos, that a massive traffic jam took place in the area, with many of the attendees just abandoning their vehicles on the road, and walking the rest of the way to the event.
00:13:42
Speaker
In total, it's estimated that 600,000 people attended Summer Jam, and the event wound up being featured in the Guinness Book of World Records as having the largest audience to ever attend a music festival, as it even beat out Woodstock. However, to this day, it's still not clear if Mitchell and Bonnie were among those 600,000 people. While Mitchell's family knew of his plans to attend Summer Jam, they assumed he was going to travel there via bus rather than hitchhiking. By contrast, Bonnie's family was completely unaware of her plans to attend the festival, and realized something was amiss on July the 30th, when they received a phone call informing them that Bonnie had left camp well met 3 days earlier and failed to return, even though she still needed to collect her clothing and final paycheck. That same day, Mitchell had a driver's lesson which he did not show up for, and he never returned to his job at Chelsea Photographers, even though he also left behind an uncached paycheck.
00:14:43
Speaker
Now, if there's one common trait you'll find in missing persons cases from the 1970s involving teenagers, it's that it was often very difficult for their families to convince the police to take their disappearances seriously or launch an investigation unless there was strong evidence of foul play. Otherwise, law enforcement's standard response was to simply write off missing teens as runaways. Not surprisingly, the same thing happened here when Mitchell and Bonnie's families attempted to report them missing to the Sullivan County Sheriff's Office because even though they were technically last confirmed to be alive in Sullivan County, no one could be certain if they managed to hitchhike out of the area. It turned out that Mitchell and Bonnie had secretly exchanged wedding rings that summer, so the police pretty much believed that they had gone off and eloped together or possibly even joined a commune or a cult.
00:15:35
Speaker
Since there wasn't much of an investigation, both teens' families published ads in a number of different newspapers urging Mitchell and Bonnie to call home if they were alive, and they also circulated thousands of missing persons flyers with a couple's photographs. For many years, there was virtually no evidence to work with, and even though there were reported sightings of the two missing teens throughout the US, none of them ever panned out. In 1987, Mitch's father, Sidney Weiser, would receive a collect phone call from a woman identifying herself as Bonnie. Sidney told the operator he would accept the charges, but after he was connected to the caller, she abruptly hung up and never called back.
00:16:17
Speaker
The case would fade into obscurity, but returned to the spotlight in the year 2000, when the New York Daily News ran an article about Mitchell and Bonnie's disappearances, and their story was also featured on an episode of the TV series, Missing Persons. A 51-year-old Rhode Island resident named Alan Smith just happened to watch the episode, and after recognizing the couple's photographs, he soon came forward to the authorities with a surprising story. Smith claimed that during the summer of 1973, he attempted to hitchhike to summer jam at Watkins Glen, but the crowds there were so large that he never got anywhere near the event. When Smith attempted to hitchhike out of the area, he was picked up by an orange Volkswagen bus with Pennsylvania license plates.
00:17:03
Speaker
It was being driven by an unidentified man who had a teenage couple as passengers, and when Smith saw Mitchell and Bonnie's photographs on the missing persons episode, he became convinced it was them. While Smith said that the couple never shared their names, the girl apparently spoke about having worked at a summer camp. And when Smith described the couple's clothing, it seemed consistent with what Mitchell and Bonnie were last seen wearing. Since it was very hot at the time, the bus eventually came to a stop so that everyone could go swimming in the 444 mile long Susquehanna River. However, shortly after the teenage girl entered the water, she found herself in trouble so the teenage boy jumped in and attempted to save her. But it wasn't long before they were both swept away down the river by the current and disappeared, and this was the last time Smith ever saw them.
00:17:57
Speaker
Since Smith claimed he was under the influence of marijuana at the time and did not want to deal with law enforcement, he never attempted to report this incident to anyone. But he said that before they went their separate ways, the Volkswagen bus driver assured him that he would go to the nearest gas station to call the police. Well, needless to say, after all these years, no record could be found of any phone calls that were made to report the drowning of two teenagers in the Susquehanna River in New York State in July of 1973. And as far as I know, no unidentified John or Jane Does washed up in the area during this time period.
00:18:35
Speaker
Smith said that he did not recall the name of the driver, so he was never tracked down and questioned, and since he was unable to identify the specific stretch of river where Mitchell and Bonnie supposedly drowned, and no bodies were ever found, there was technically no corroborating evidence to support Smith's story. In spite of this, one of the detectives who heard Smith's story believed his account was credible, though opinions from the victim's loved ones were divided. While Bonnie's mother and sister were inclined to believe the drowning story, Mitch's family remained skeptical and wondered why Smith, who was an athletic Navy veteran, never made any attempt to jump into the river to save the drowning couple. But it's missed offense. Some of his friends recalled him talking about this drowning incident right after he returned from summer jam in 1973, so it did not appear that he suddenly decided to fabricate this story after watching the missing persons episode on TV 27 years later.
00:19:33
Speaker
Regardless of whether or not Smith's account is true, it at least helped bring some new attention to this case. Sadly, both Mitchell and Bonnie's parents are now deceased, but their surviving siblings and friends are still searching for answers about what happened to them. Last summer, to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the couple's disappearance, an article was published about their story in Rolling Stone, and it has also been featured on a number of true crime podcasts, including The Vanished. Since five decades have passed and no concrete evidence has ever been found to indicate that Mitchell and Bonnie are still alive, I think we can discount the possibility that this 16 year old and 15 year old managed to run away and successfully start a new life together, as I'm sure they would have resurfaced or contacted someone by now.
00:20:21
Speaker
It seems very likely that something happened to the couple during their trip to Watkins Glen. But did they drown just like Alan Smith said? Or did they cross pass with the wrong person and become victims of foul play? In recent years, the authorities have investigated a few leads which involve Mitchell and Bonnie possibly being murdered, but have yet to find anything conclusive. Unless the remains turn up some day, we may never know the full truth about what happened. But if you happen to have any information about the disappearances of Mitchell Weiser and Bonita Biquit,
00:20:53
Speaker
please contact the Sullivan County Sheriff's Office at 845-794-7100. That's 845-794-7100. Anyway, thank you so much for joining us for this special summer collaboration episode. And if you would like to check out The Trail Went Cold and listen to a lot more episodes about unsolved cold cases, please visit the website trailwentcold.com. That's trailwentcold.com. Have a great summer, everyone.
00:21:26
Speaker
Lane from Suffer the Little Children is here next. She aims to heat things up in the cases of lives cut short, all while giving voices back to victims and their families.
Murder of Nikoda Kelly
00:21:36
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Suffer the Little Children is the podcast giving voices back to the victims of child abuse murder and their families. I'm your host, Lane, and today I'll tell you an abridged version of a story I initially covered in 2020 in episode 33. This is the story of a happy, playful 10-year-old boy named Nikoda Kelly, who had a megawatt smile and a talent for baseball. Unfortunately, it's also the story of Nikoda's murder.
00:22:05
Speaker
In 2008, 22-year-old Hayley Kelly found what she thought was the man of her dreams on a dating website. Miguel Nchama was charismatic, handsome, and sweet. On May 25, 2010, Nikoda Blake Kelly was born weighing 7 pounds, 10 ounces. At the time, Hayley also had a three-and-a-half-year-old daughter. It wasn't until Nikoda was almost two years old that Hayley discovered the man she loved was not who he said he was. Miguel Nchama was one of five names her son's father used over the years. He was born in Nigeria on March 11, 1983, with the name Ajike Ibei, although it seems he had it legally changed to Anthony Dabaya at some point. According to a criminal complaint filed in August 2011, Anthony was charged with fraud, misuse of visa permits, misuse of social security number, and fraud with identification documents.
00:23:00
Speaker
he was ordered to be held in custody. He was not a citizen of the United States, and he possessed identification documents in the names of three other people. Authorities believed he was a citizen of Nigeria. Despite finding out that she was dating a con man, Haley still loved him, at least until he became more and more controlling, and she finally became fed up and broke up with him. After their breakup, Anthony talked down to her and insulted her, picking on her looks and her weight. In 2012, Anthony pleaded guilty to social security fraud, identity theft, and misusing documents to stay in the country and was sentenced to 34 months in federal prison. Near the end of his sentence, a judge ordered him deported, but, according to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Nigeria refused to take him back.
00:23:49
Speaker
The United States Supreme Court has ruled the government cannot imprison someone indefinitely who is in the country illegally in cases when it is unlikely that they will obtain the documents needed for deportation. Because Anthony could not secure proper travel documents from Nigeria, ICE officers released him in October 2014 on order of supervision. At this point, Anthony was free to walk the streets. His son, Nakoda, was four and a half years old. Nikota always seemed to have a smile on his face, even though he didn't have the easiest life. On top of having problems breathing while he slept, necessitating surgery in 2014, Nikota was also diagnosed with several other conditions throughout the years, including severe ADHD, sensory processing disorder, pervasive developmental disorder, a mild learning disability, and a speech impediment. He was, at least at one point, on medication for some of his conditions.
00:24:46
Speaker
According to statistics, children with mood, behavior, or learning difficulties are at a higher risk of parental abuse than neurotypical children. For about a year, Haley didn't hear from Anthony at all. When he did get in touch with her, he demanded a DNA test to prove Nikota's paternity. Then, in October 2016, Anthony took Haley to court for visitation with Nikota. At first, Nikota was excited to start seeing his dad. After Dakota's first overnight visit with his father on New Year's Day of 2017, Haley filed her first abuse allegation with Indiana's Department of Child Services, or DCS, saying Anthony gave Dakota a double dose of his ADHD medication. Anthony claimed it was a mistake, saying he thought he was supposed to give Dakota both pills at once instead of one each day of the visit. That that allegation was determined to be unsubstantiated.
00:25:41
Speaker
The following month, Haley filed a second DCS complaint, saying Dakota had suffered bruises after Anthony dragged him down the stairs. In November of that year, Haley complained that Anthony hit Dakota so hard in the face that her son fell backward over a couch landing on his back. In June 2018, she reported to DCS that Dakota was present when Anthony threatened to beat her after she confronted him about abusing Dakota. A month later, Haley filed a court motion asking for Nakota's visits with his father to be supervised, but the court ordered them to meet with a mediator instead. Haley ended up signing a mediation agreement that neither would withhold parenting time if they suspected abuse or other issues and that they would let the court deal with it instead. Why did she sign that agreement?
00:26:29
Speaker
Haley's lawyer told her they didn't have enough evidence to convince the judge to change the visitation agreement because DCS unsubstantiated all of her complaints. Nakoda even told a DCS caseworker himself that he didn't want to go with his abusive father anymore, saying Anthony hit him, smacked him, yelled in his face, and didn't feed him enough. At one point, Haley refused to send Dakota with Anthony, but the police showed up at her home in Wabash, Indiana, and threatened to arrest her if she didn't allow her son to go with his father. Out of options, Haley relented. She was doing everything she could to stop Dakota's unsupervised visits with Anthony, but no one listened to her. On July 14, 2020, 10-year-old Dakota made an alarming statement to Haley.
00:27:16
Speaker
Dakota was afraid to spend the weekend with Anthony because he knew his dad would be angry with him for hanging up when Dakota didn't want to speak to him. Haley immediately told a DCS caseworker that after being informed that he would be spending the weekend at his father's apartment in Indianapolis, Dakota replied, Oh, I'm dead. Don't expect me to come home. When asked for clarification, Dakota told his mother, My dad is going to kill me. DCS took no action to prevent the upcoming weekend visit, although they did open a case. Haley had no choice but to allow it, fearing she would be jailed if she didn't. She wouldn't be much help to Nikoda or his older sister behind bars. A judge had ordered that Nikoda's weekend visitations would begin at 6 p.m. on Fridays, but Nikoda's final Little League baseball game of the season was scheduled for the evening of Friday, July 17.
00:28:08
Speaker
It meant a lot to Nikoda to be there, so despite Anthony's demands that she meet him for the custody transfer at 6pm, Hailey brought Nikoda to his father after the game was over. Anthony was furious that she was late and told Hailey he would never cooperate with her again. The following day, at 7.36pm on Saturday, July 18, 2020, Nikoda spoke with his mom on the phone for the last time, telling Hailey he had just eaten a couple of Lunchables and was watching YouTube. They went back and forth, as they always did, about who loved who more, and Haley told her son that she would see him tomorrow. About two hours later, Anthony's cousin in Texas called 911 and said he had received a text message and then a call from Anthony Dabaya. Anthony and this cousin hadn't spoken for nearly 20 years until they reconnected about a month before. The cousin told the dispatcher that Anthony, who was weeping, screamed over and over, I just killed my son.
00:29:07
Speaker
Anthony asked for the cousin's address, but the cousin refused to give it to him. This apparently upset Anthony and the cousin hung up and immediately called 911. Just after 10 PM, Indianapolis police went to the apartment complex to perform a welfare check. Anthony's vehicle, a white Jeep Patriot, was parked in the parking lot. Officers knocked on the door of apartment E and heard someone moving around inside, but they received no answer. feeling there was no reason to force entry, police left. On Sunday morning, July 19, police received another report from a friend of Anthony's. The friend said Anthony called him that morning and confessed that he had used a plastic bag to suffocate Dakota to death, then took his son to the bathroom to make sure he was dead before dumping the body in an undisclosed location.
00:29:58
Speaker
When police arrived at the address again at around 11.45 a.m., Anthony's vehicle was no longer parked in the lot. This time, because of the second report, authorities were taking the situation seriously enough to deem it necessary to enter the apartment, which they did after obtaining a key from building management. Inside, they found neither Anthony nor Nikoda. There was a small amount of blood in the apartment's entrance. In the bathroom, police found a large amount of blood splattered on the walls, floor, and ceiling. There was hair and brain matter on the bathroom floor. Based on the evidence inside the apartment, authorities immediately believed Dakota was dead.
00:30:40
Speaker
IMPD Homicide Detectives, Child Abuse Detectives, the Indianapolis Marion County Forensic Services Agency, and the Marion County Coroner were summoned to the crime scene at Anthony Dabaya's apartment. Investigators obtained surveillance video in which they saw Anthony Dabaya making numerous trips from his apartment to his vehicle, placing items into the back of the vehicle with each trip. During one trip, he was seen placing a bag inside the complex's communal dumpster. Between 2.27 a.m. and 8.30 a.m. on July 19, 2020, Anthony's vehicle was seen leaving the parking lot and returning several times. Also on July 19, Haley contacted the DCS caseworker again after she received a text message from Anthony at 2.01 p.m., reading, Sometimes I hear voices. My son is in heaven. Haley refused to believe at the time that Nikoda was dead.
00:31:35
Speaker
Even though she feared Anthony would abuse their son, she never thought he would kill Dakota. She reported the text message to DCS, who forwarded it to Indianapolis detectives. Investigators traced Anthony's cell phone location and ascertained that he was driving through Illinois toward the Missouri border. The same afternoon, Anthony was located and detained when the Missouri State Highway Patrol spotted him traveling alone in his white Jeep Patriot. IMPD detectives traveled to Missouri, but Anthony refused to give them a statement and was arrested. Police found blood in the back of his vehicle. Anthony was charged with murder in the presumed death of his 10-year-old son, Nikoda. The Marion County Prosecutor's Office said a conviction in this case would result in either life without parole or the death penalty. Anthony was booked into the Marion County Jail, for where he was held without bond.
00:32:30
Speaker
Over the next three years, Anthony's trial was scheduled and rescheduled over a dozen times. At long last, at a change of plea hearing in September 2023, Anthony changed his plea from not guilty to guilty but mentally ill. Thanks to a plea agreement he struck with the prosecution, Anthony admitted in court to killing his own son. At his sentencing hearing in October, Anthony was sentenced to 52 years in prison. Anthony Dabaya, now 41 years old, is currently serving his sentence at the Wabash Valley Correctional Facility in Carlisle, Indiana. His earliest possible release date is August 1, 2059. Disclosing the location of Dakota's remains was not stipulated in the plea agreement, and Anthony has never revealed that information. As of this recording, Dakota has not been located.
00:33:24
Speaker
Now, as I like to do at the end of all of my episodes, I want to tell you about who Nikoda was. Nikoda Blake Kelly was a happy, playful boy with an utterly charming smile, curly black hair, with gorgeous brown eyes, and glasses. He played baseball for the Wabash Little League, and he also enjoyed bowling, football, and wrestling. He loved the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for most of his life. He also loved video games. One friend from church said about Nikoda, He had a smile you cannot forget. He was always dressed like a little gentleman. He was ornery and kept me on my toes. I loved his spunky yet sometimes bashful personality." Nikoda's grandparents, Debbie and Phil, said Nikoda loved Marvel superheroes and eating at McDonald's. Nikoda and his older sister adored each other and enjoyed playing and spending time with each other. Nikoda was, according to Haley, Mama's boy.
00:34:21
Speaker
Whenever she was sick, he refused to leave her side. Haley lovingly described Nikota as a protector who stood up to bullies despite his small stature. He loved reading but wasn't terribly fond of math, and he was sensitive to race issues, telling people his black and white cat named King was biracial like he was. Haley said Nikota also loved to cuddle. My sources for this story were the Indy Channel, Wish TV, Crime Watch 8, the Indy Star, Fox 59, Facebook, the Indiana Department of Correction website, Indiana's My Case Portal, 13WTHR, and the Chronicle Tribune. To learn more about Dakota and to hear the stories of other children murdered by their parents, guardians, or caretakers, check out Suffer the Little Children wherever you listen to podcasts.
Police Pursuit of Anthony and Savannah Graziano
00:35:13
Speaker
Coming at you now is 911 dispatcher Brandon from Music City 911, who is known for his unyielding commitment to bringing justice to light. On his show, he explores real 911 calls and crimes from the perspective of a dispatcher himself. Most crimes are reported on novel one, especially in the hotter months of summer. pot pursuits, they can have it at any time, all with their own twists and turns. But with this incident, the twists and turns are not something usual during a police pursuit.
00:35:50
Speaker
sure if dis much Michelle speaking, how may I help you? I'm calling from store 200 at the pilot travel center. Hey, I just called a little while ago and reported, you know, the Amber alert that was on for yesterday. with a little girl um and her dad. What's the address you called for? The address is 5725, Highway 58. One second. Okay, I see your call. What's going on? I'm sorry? I see your call. What's going on? I think it's the girl and I think it's the dad. They're going towards Barbourstow right now. I have a picture of the little girl that was in the front. She came in and got two sodas from me and a number eight and a guest came to me and told me
00:36:35
Speaker
It's the same, uh, Nissan frontier and everything they faked. Like they were going down south on the three 95 and they turned around and you can see him going in front of our cameras. And he he said, he, uh, um, ended up going, uh, East 58 towards Barstow. I'm going to have to back up a bit on this one since it started a pretty good ways before this call came in almost two years ago in September of 2022, 45 year old Anthony Graziano. was about a month into a separation that was leading to divorce with his wife, Tracy Martinez, who was also 45 years old during the separation. They were living apart from each other on September 26, a little after 7.30 AM police could report if shots fired at the Cypress elementary school that is situated between Long Beach and Anaheim, just south of Los Angeles and California.
00:37:34
Speaker
After arriving at the scene, they discovered Tracy Martinez shot several times. She was still alive, but barely hanging on before being transported to a hospital. She told police she knew who shot her, her husband, Anthony Graziano. After arriving at the hospital, doctors did everything they could, but Tracy died from those multiple gunshots. back at the scene of the shooting. Police started questioning those who were there and find out that not only did Anthony shoot Tracy, he likely shot at a van that had a man and a child inside. Keep in mind that this was right in the middle of the time to drop off kids at the school. So there were people everywhere. This could have been a lot worse than it was.
00:38:24
Speaker
After looking around for more evidence and asking more people for info, they found some. One parent had cell phone video of the suspect's vehicle, a white 2017 Nissan Frontier pickup truck with a toolbox and a black rack in the back. Another video was picked up from a security camera and what was on that was pretty shocking. And the back seat of the truck was a teenage girl. That girl was tracing Anthony's daughter. 15 year old Savannah Graziano. She had witnessed her mother being killed believing Savannah was abducted and in a very dangerous situation. Police immediately issued an Amber alert. Anthony was described as either a male white or male Hispanic around five foot, four inches tall and weighing around 150 pounds. He was considered armed and dangerous.
00:39:20
Speaker
Savannah was described an alert as being five foot two with brown hair and eyes. The tag on the suspect vehicle was also listed as California tag four three zero five G is in George two. The alert was put out by California highway patrol and a number of counties, including San Bernardino, Kern, Riverside, and Los Angeles. The suspect was on the run and everyone was looking for him, but especially they were looking for Savannah. The 911 call we just heard was the siding police needed. They got his location and the direction he was heading, probably out further in the desert towards Barstow. But one peculiar thing stuck out when police arrived to talk with the caller.
00:40:09
Speaker
They watched the security camera videos from inside the store. Savannah was casually walking around inside alone and walked to the counter and paid for two sodas. She didn't at all look distressed. Just a few minutes after the 911 came in, police spot a white Nissan Frontier running at a high rate of speed on highway 58, then exited to get onto interstate 15. Hey sir, are you approaching line one? I'm sorry, can I? Are you approaching the Lenwood exit? Yeah, that's a firm. Yeah, there's a white pickup truck, probably doing 100 miles an hour east. Yeah, that's the one I'm trying to catch up to. It's a Nissan Frontier. Hey, Kimmy, step it up. and He's going to be about a half mile from here. Sam, on number three lane, straddling number four, still trying to catch up to it. Coming up on OCD.
00:41:06
Speaker
and speeds are over 113. And Sam, what if I could get a CHP in it, maybe as a charger to keep up to them. I copy. They were advised. and They didn't give me their locations on where they were. When officers finally catch up to the white Nissan Frontier, something is put out on the radio. No dispatcher likes hearing. Shots fired. Shots fired. I copy. Shots fired. Taking rounds. Shots fired. Shots fired. I copy. Taking rounds. Still northbound, number one. Watch out, watch out, watch out. K-9, are you okay? I gotta check on K-9. He's off in the desert. Advisor status. Number one lane, still northbound. Correction, southbound. K-9-5, shots fired. Go for it. Give me an airship and some additional units. Still southbound, number one lane. Shots were being taken from inside the truck at pursuing deputies.
00:42:04
Speaker
And they were very accurate for the speed that was being driven. I've watched dozens of videos of suspect shooting at pursuing officers and their rounds very rarely find their mark. This time more than one police vehicle was hit both of them several times. One of the officers inside taking shrapnel from one of the bullets. California Highway Patrol and San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department both had helicopters up and were requested to where the pursuit was happening. It took a little bit for them to get there, but did manage to get overhead and keep the truck in sight. The pursuit continues with the CHP helicopter overhead. The next clip is pretty hectic and difficult to hear, being that they have to monitor more than one radio channel at a time.
00:42:52
Speaker
but the aren eighteen even before was they shot with a rifle hand and So we're looking at that white truck, white truck, right here. Right shoulder, passing the car carrier. Okay, you got it? You guys want us to try to set it on the freeway? 15 south over by 11. Just slow down here. I'm going to concentrate on his shoulder again. And just be careful, keep your head down.
00:43:32
Speaker
We'll wait for him to see if he's permitted to help us. Do you need the binos, Jeremy? Let them know I'm ICS volume. talks If he can, let them know I'm recording. Bridgeville, 882. the decision gave me for excuse Richville, 18-2, we're overhead. We have the camera on the suspect. that We're recording audio and live. We're recording audio video. video. We're recording audio and video. We're recording audio and video. We're recording audio and video. We're recording audio and video. We're recording audio and video. We're recording audio and video. shoulder. Shoulder for this. Okay. Oh we yeah. Here, uh, Dale passing down. Tension is already at a crazy level. A pursuit of a father suspected of killing his wife, traveling with a possible abducted teen at speeds over 110 miles an hour. Shots being fired at the police and hitting their mark.
00:44:45
Speaker
But the next bit of info relayed from both the ground units and the helicopter is both crucial and confusing. trailing over the overpass a halfm mile north of north suspect vehicle south down passing northwaterter now
00:45:02
Speaker
H82, number one lane crossing over North Stoddard. Kingfall 24, suspect vehicles in the number one lane, south dock 15, just fired a shot out the passenger window. And we're getting go shooted and he's still fire and actively firing out of the driver side window. Officers on the ground pursuing the white truck reported that shots were being fired out of the passenger window with an air unit directly overhead advising that there were more shots coming from the driver's side. Unless this five foot four inch tall suspect has the longest arms ever. I would believe it would be nearly impossible for him to be firing shots out of the passenger side window at police cars.
00:45:45
Speaker
while they were traveling behind him, let alone do so with any accuracy while he was driving ah shots were being fired. A citizen in a vehicle captured some of the rounds being popped off on his dash cam.
00:46:15
Speaker
After the entire incident was over, the driver of the vehicle with a dash cam was interviewed by police asking what he saw. I flipped the video and then that's that's when I caught the back end of it. And then I didn't expect a gun to pop out shooting at me or at the cops, but he was and look like it kind of looked like he was aiming at me. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. What part of the car did you see the gun come out of? The passenger pat right up passenger side right here. Right off the side, leaning out, just open fire. and Was it the driver or was it someone else in the car? It must've been someone else. Cause someone was still driving the truck. Confirmed by deputies on the ground and this person that shots were being fired from the passenger side. Just seconds after those, the air unit reports shots being fired out of the driver's side.
00:47:11
Speaker
Authorities are still investigating this bit and haven't put out anything official on it yet, but it seems that 15 year old Savannah may have been helping her dad shoot at police. That would explain how the shots being fired were hitting their targets so easily. As I said before, pretty difficult to hit a moving police car from a vehicle going over a hundred miles an hour while driving. The pursuit continues, approaching the main street exit of Interstate 15, approaching Victorville, California. Can you just be advised the traffic stomach's a dead stop up here? There's going to be way too much backdrop for us to engage if he does end up exiting and making contact with you guys.
00:47:53
Speaker
to the desert
00:47:59
Speaker
He's making a U-turn. He's using on-ramp to exit, no wrong way. Hey, you guys, he's going to lose control here as he goes up that embankment that we have units on Fair Valley. He's stalling out right there. He's doing 40, dude. a are
00:48:34
Speaker
We don't know how to open door. You know, you're clear. You need to go up and It takes some cover. It takes some cover. We have zero cap top on the south family. Take your cover. What about those shots of fired. Shots are fired. He's continuing to shoot at the deputy. He's rolled out. Oh, I don't know You know, she is out. She's out on the pass. She just saw it. Does anyone else have eyes in the vehicle to see if we have any other passengers? Oh no. You guys watch for cross freeway traffic. Watch your crossfire guys.
00:49:24
Speaker
The white truck stopped just past the main street exit and then started going the wrong way up the entrance ramp. When Anthony saw police awaiting him there, he tried to go up a steep dirt and grass embankment to get around the police. The truck lost traction and he didn't make it all the way up the hill. He went backwards, back down towards the interstate where more shots were fired from inside the truck. Officers returned fire. In the middle of all that the 15 year old passenger gets out of the truck while officers there didn't have body worn cameras. At least one officer was wearing what's called a belt recorder, which is an audio recorder that's attached to his belt. Audio from the massive shootout was captured starting just before Savannah got out of the truck.
00:50:25
Speaker
passenger get out passenger get out get out get out get out
00:50:41
Speaker
and me a got
00:50:55
Speaker
She's okay. He's in the car ah with all that was going on. It was difficult to tell what was happening. The officer was calling Savannah over to him, trying to get her out of the main area where the shots were being fired, which is coming from different sides of the truck, both on the entrance ramp and from the interstate. She's seen from video from the helicopter getting out of the vehicle, wearing tactical gear and a helmet, walking a few feet from the truck, then laying down. She then gets up again and starts walking towards the officer where she then falls to the ground. She had been shot.
00:51:35
Speaker
Early in the investigation, it wasn't certain if her dad had shot her or if it was the police. Recently, police have said that she was struck from one of their own guns. What's still under investigation is if she was caught by one or more poorly aimed bullets or if she was directly fired upon because it looked as if she was advancing towards the officers. At this point, all the firing had ceased and officers approached the truck as well as Savannah. Anthony Graziano was declared deceased at the scene, having been shot multiple times. Savannah was rushed to a local hospital where she also later passed. As I've said before, even though this all happened over a year and a half ago, the entire incident is still under investigation.
00:52:28
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this clip of Music City 911. If you'd like to hear more of this, it's a portion of the episode called High Speed Pursuits. Listen to that, or any other of Music City 911's more than 200 episodes. For Music City 911, I'm Brandon, and y'all have a good one.
Unsolved Murder of Allie Brueger
00:52:52
Speaker
Welcome Nina from Already Gone podcast, whose fiery determination makes her a force to be reckoned with in the world of true crime.
00:53:02
Speaker
It's a sunny Saturday afternoon. You hear a commotion in your yard. Then you hear gunfire. And you look out the front door to see a woman covered in blood. You run to her and she's dying right in front of you. This isn't a creepy Halloween tale. This is the true story of the murder of Allie Brueger.
00:53:27
Speaker
Alexandra Brueger, the only child of Franz and Nicky Brueger, was born November 9, 1984. As an adult, Allie stood only 4 foot 9 inches tall, and she weighed less than 100 pounds. Her parents said she was small in stature but mighty in presence. She was a graduate of Holly High School, where she was the editor of the school paper and graduated with honors. In the summer of 2016, 31-year-old Allie was working on her master's degree in creative writing, and she was employed as a nurse at a hospital in Novi, Michigan. Some would say that writing was her love and nursing was her job.
00:54:10
Speaker
An avid runner, Ali regularly went out for 10-mile runs, and she followed the same route on Fish Lake Road in Rose Township. Well, she ran that nearly every day for weeks. One sunny Saturday in July of 2016, someone decided to take aim at her with a shotgun. They fired four shots. Ali, mortally wounded, collapsed on the lawn in front of a house. The homeowner called 911 for help, and then he rendered first aid. He was trying to stop the bleeding and trying to comfort her, but Ali didn't survive. Who would want to kill Ali Bruger and why? Investigators scoured the scene, and reports say they found four shotgun casings near her body. While four shots were fired, only one hit its mark and it was enough to kill Ali Bruger.
00:55:07
Speaker
Sadly, there isn't a lot of evidence or clues for investigators to follow. There were reports of a vehicle scene in the area, a white or light-colored sedan racing up Fish Lake Road around the time of the shooting. Without much in the way of motive, police had to look at the people closest to her. They turned their attention to her parents and her boyfriend. And listeners, I feel terrible for her parents. Their only child is gunned down in broad daylight and they are investigated. Could they be responsible for her murder?
00:55:42
Speaker
In time, investigators were able to clear Ali's parents. They are no longer considered suspects in the case. And this leaves many people looking at Ali's boyfriend, a guy she met while working at the hospital in Novi, Weston, Sutherland. Sutherland, an army veteran who served as a combat medic, he says he was at home, asleep, by himself with his phone turned off at the time Ali was murdered. And I'm wondering, was Wes still her boyfriend? This is up for debate, because while he and Allie had lived together for about two years, Allie moved back home in the spring of 2016 and was residing with her parents at the time of the murder.
00:56:28
Speaker
Early in the investigation, police focused on Ali's father, Franz Bruger, a Vietnam veteran, and West Sutherland, her former boyfriend. Each man was issued a polygraph. Multiple news agencies reported that West Sutherland failed a polygraph related to Ali's murder. And if you're wondering what led to the breakup between Wes and Allie, the answer depends on who you ask. Wes has said that Allie was in a hurry to get married while he was not. He wanted to finish nursing school. Allie's friends say that she moved out after finding Wes's profile on a dating website.
00:57:07
Speaker
And whatever the reason for the breakup, the relationship appeared to be over by July of 2016. In fact, the relationship was so over that Ali's mother said her daughter had planned to visit to Florida in August of 2016, Ali was going to visit a guy that she'd dated previously. Sounds to me like Ali had already moved on. So who shot Allie Bruger in broad daylight on July 30th of 2016? Was this a random killing? Could Allie have been involved in a road rage incident? Or was she tracked down by someone that she knew? It's been four long years and we are still looking for answers. Allie Bruger left behind her parents, many close friends, and her beloved dog, Zeus.
00:58:03
Speaker
There are multiple rewards available in this case. If you have information about the murder of Allie Bruger, you can leave an anonymous tip with Crimestoppers of Michigan at 1-800-773-2587 or contact the Michigan State Police. I'm Nina Instead, host of the Already Gone podcast.
Mystery of Daniel Furr's Murder
00:58:31
Speaker
Next on our roster, we have the hosts from Sirens, a southern true crime podcast, who bring a blazing intensity to every story they cover.
00:58:42
Speaker
she I'm Raven Rollins, and this is my Southern True Crime podcast where I discuss cases from my former hometown. Ada, Oklahoma paints itself as an average community, but its history of murder and corruption runs deeper than any story is ever told. You'll hear plenty of special guests, including authors and experts in their fields, who visit with me on each episode, as well as other cases in the Southern states. With notorious and unknown cases alike, every victim sees the light on my show. This is Sirens, a true crime podcast.
00:59:17
Speaker
A life might end, but sometimes their case lives forever. Charlie Donnelly, the girl who was taken. In 1995, the movie Seven with Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman was released. Top charting songs that year were Gangsta's Paradise by Coolio, Waterfalls by TLC, as well as Kiss from a Rose. On April 19, 1995, Timothy McVeigh set off a bomb at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people, including eight federal marshals and 19 children. 680 others are wounded. For more information on that case, please check out our three-part miniseries, Up in Smoke, where we discuss the bombing in detail as well as the events leading up to it, like the siege at Waco. 1995 was a historical year with white Broncos and even more tragedy. But before the year begins, we travel back to my hometown of Ada, Oklahoma, where 15-year-old Daniel Furr leaves home for the last time. Join me as I discuss this case with my co-host, Professor Mandy McNeely, as well as Daniel's mother and sister, Gayle and Chelsea. I am Chelsea. I am Daniel's ah little sister and um we were seven years apart.
01:00:41
Speaker
um I was eight years old and my brother um was killed. It wasn't until after I graduated high school um and pursued criminal justice that um I started digging into my brother's case myself and really started investigating and looking at at um his case. Even though I was really young, When Daniel was killed, um I still remember him as being the pesti older brother like chasing us around the house and with a purse strap and you know trying to attack us and being the honoree big brother. And so he was the typical big brother picking on us little kids. So I'm Gail Whitson. I'm Daniel's mother. I had Daniel when I was a senior in high school. Oh, you were a baby. I was a baby. Being a grant, Daniel kind of grew up together. huh
01:01:37
Speaker
Daniel was a very fun, young kid. Never gave me any trouble ah until about a year before his death. That's when he started like hanging with the wrong crowd to get with the wrong people. And the at that point, I had become a single mother and I had three other children. So I was a single mom of ah four kids. And it was difficult. It was difficult times. and Like I said, be Daniel kind of grew up together. He loved animals. he had a ah
01:02:09
Speaker
newspaper out. And when he'd go to his newspaper out, when he'd come back, he'd have like 10 dogs following him. I was like, look at all these dogs coming from here. I petted them and they followed me on. So then he'd have to go back around and and take every dog back home. We did adopt one and named it Bo. Yes, he had one. Stinky old Stinky old dog.
01:02:34
Speaker
But he loves Bo, and Bo loved him. Yeah, there's a little creek just of probably about 10 blocks from our house. And he'd go down there with his little boy scout camping thing, and he'd catch crawdads and cook them. Did he eat them? Yes. Oh. but He liked to be outside. He liked voice counts. He liked to do outdoor stuff camping. In 1994, Daniel began hanging out with a bad crowd. He often disappears for days or weeks on end and informs his mother, Gayle, that he has joined a gang called Cripps Eightball. He will not disclose member names to Gayle other than M.H. whom Daniel is supposedly selling drugs for at the time, and one other member. Daniel tends to get into a lot of trouble around this time, and in November of 1994, he enters Willowview Juvenile Center. Daniel begins receiving death threats, telling Gale that, quote, they showed up with a message that if he talked, he would be killed, end quote. Daniel's stay in Willowview is 30 days long. Once he went up to to the placement where he was you know supposed to go, he said, if there were 30 days, he started telling me. you know He said, I just wanted to see if I could do it. And they said they took him to a place and told him he had to steal a car. And then he had to run down what they called the gauntlet, where you run down and they beat you.
01:03:56
Speaker
Oh my gosh. And he goes, I did it. But after he came to a senses and was in treatment for a while, he said, this is scary. They've came to my window and told me if I said anything that, because I placed him up in Oklahoma City. And that's where he supposedly got jumped to the gang. And he was 14. That was right before he turned 15. He said they actually came to the window of his room and through the window told him. And that was just days after. In June of 1995, a childhood friend of Daniel, we'll call the fourth scout, tells me that he spoke with Daniel around this time. He says that Daniel told him that he thought he had made a group of guys very upset with him and they were making threats, but he wasn't too worried about it. The friend states that Daniel was actually in really good spirits and told him that he was happy and had been doing well. We jumped to July 6th, 1995. Daniel was seen by Gail that morning. He was also seen at his grandmother's house that day. This is the day that Daniel and his father Harvey get into a fight. Daniel leaves Harvey's house and this is the last time Harvey sees him alive. So my dad was out of town or out of state.
01:05:12
Speaker
While he was gone, Daniel was to stay with my mom. Daniel had broken the house and stolen some items from my dad. Upset my dad that he had broken in and stolen something from him. He did confront Daniel about it and they had gotten into an argument and so then my dad left. um And the bad thing about that is that's something my dad had always had to live with. he He hated that that was the last thing he said to his son. The words got heated or whatever. A few days later, you know, he loses Daniel and you can't ever take that back. And so I know throughout the years after that, ah my dad dad battled a lot of depression and and blamed himself. So that really, really was hard.
01:05:56
Speaker
I went through his room and I found some money, i about $85. I was stashed in his mattress. The day that he left, we'll put it that way, I confronted him and then I finally said, I got it. And if you will tell me where you got this. You know, I will give it right back. He said, just give my money, Mom. We got a big fight. So the last time I ever talked to my son, too, it was a big fight. And he walked down the street and away. And that was my last words with him, too. So I lived with a lot of regret on that, too.
01:06:32
Speaker
A witness states that Anthony Taylor and his crew showed up at a friend's house and invited them to a party at the quarry later that night. According to authorities, it is believed that this night, July 7, 1995, is the night Daniel is murdered, either late that night or early into the 8th at this party. From statements to police, we gather that there could have been around a dozen possible witnesses to Daniel's murder that night, all underage kids he went to school with or, quote, gang members. However, on July 8th, a girl we'll call M.C. says that
01:07:12
Speaker
L.M., who was Anthony Taylor's girlfriend at the time, told her that she saw Daniel around 5.30 p.m. on the 8th. She does not say where, and I do not have an interview with the police from her. On July 11th, 1995, at 5.55 p.m., a 911 call came into the Ada Police dispatch from Pastor Bill Galbraith. Bill at the time was the pastor for the First Presbyterian Church in Ada and the scout troop leader for Troop 9. He informed dispatch that several Boy Scouts from his troop, which was also Daniel's troop, had reported to him that they had found a body at the west side of the old brick plant, or quarry, just east of the church near the rock cliffs. Daniel was 5'10 and around 150 pounds. So reports of the body being six feet tall, weighing 160 pounds with long black hair and no facial hair. Age is approximated at 25 years old. And at the bottom, other descriptors are recorded, with height being 5'4", or 64 inches, and weight is noted at 92.5 pounds, along with the age of 15 and the race of white. It also says his hair is brown. These two descriptors are both on the same report, one at the top, one at the bottom.
01:08:36
Speaker
I think this is the important part for everybody to realize why we had so much doubt. I got an autopsy before the sheriff did. I had one in hand. I had somebody waiting up there at BME's office for it. And it said 5'4". That's what I started questioning. And I saw a picture of the body and the hair went along the shoulder to the end. And I said, just explain this long black hair to me. It seems that the body was found in the active decay stage, near the end of decomposition, with only advanced decay or skeletonization remaining, which would take around a month, even in the heat. So the ME did not note what stages the maggots were in, nor their shape, size, or color. Maggots can be present at any stage, but these factors can tell us how long they have been present. Since these things were not recorded, we cannot use them for etymology purposes. I questioned the medical examiner on that but because I had took homicide investigation courses, just got out of them, and I said, you put the day of death the day you found the body. He said, how how else are we going to know? I said, the gestation of the maggots. And he said, we don't do that. For a homicide investigation, you need to know the time of death. I had questions. I had valid questions. And they would just tell me I was in denial.
01:09:59
Speaker
With all of this information, our team believes the body could have been dead for at least two weeks to a month. With no blood present at the scene other than one small leaf, and it's a suspected stabbing, we believe that there's a good chance that the body was killed somewhere else and then placed at this scene. This would also explain why, if the body was older than two weeks, no one found it in this spot prior. As we know that the scouts regularly meet at the church every Tuesday and played around this spot each week, yet did not witness the body there in previous weeks. In August of 1996, Gail speaks with Daniel's dentist, Dr. Clark. Dr. Clark didn't believe that they could have matched ID with the records that he provided. He stated that an X-ray had not been done of Daniel's teeth since 1991 when Daniel was 11 years old.
01:10:55
Speaker
he said he would have lost teeth and new ones would have grown in. So it would be unlikely that an ID could be made from them. Those X-rays from 1991 were the ones sent to the medical examiner's odontologist and used in the comparison and eventual ID of the body as Daniel. um Clearly the X-rays that were sent from Daniel's dentist was done when Daniel was 11 years old. There's a huge gap in between those times. We do have the official reports for that comparison. It's very light, and we agree. It seems unlikely a match could have been made from them. July of 2006. Daniel's family does a news story about possible exhumation of the body to test it to find out if it really was Daniel. The em ME stated after it aired that they had a tissue sample from the body. The family is told they will need to obtain a court order for the samples. In January of 2007, the family calls the Texas lab to see how the testing is coming along. They are told then that they never received the samples from the medical examiner's office for comparison. So I called the MA's office. And asked them, and they said, it's too decomposed. I said, I don't care. It belongs to me now. I have a court order. Will you please send it to my lab? And they can determine how decomposed it is. And they said, no, you'll have to get another court order. And I was just, ah every time they did that to me, it knocked the breath out of me. They just kept knocking me off my feet.
01:12:32
Speaker
Family requested another court order to release the sample to the lap anyway. While they are waiting on this second court order and six months later, joke lover finds samples from blood from the body in the basement of the courthouse in Ada labeled as Daniel Fur. It is sealed in an evidence bag with a sample of DNA, a leaf with blood, and hair samples. The DNA and hair are sent to the lab and tested against Gail. That sample was confirmed to be Daniel's DNA. But where is the chain of custody for these samples? Why were they stored in the courthouse basement instead of the medical examiner's office or an official evidence locker? How did they have these samples after the medical examiner themselves stated that their samples were not viable and had no other samples?
01:13:24
Speaker
Was the body found at the quarry misidentified due to an overwhelmed system in the months after the Oklahoma City bombing? Why did the medical examiner report one physical finding of the body only to change it later? Why has the autopsy report been left pending for 28 years? To hear our full episode on Daniel's case, find the Sirens podcast streaming wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find Daniel's case in our new true crime book, Sends of the South, a true crime case collection to advocate for anywhere you get your books online. Don't let Daniel be forgotten. Don't let his case grow colder.
Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders and Gene Leroy Hart
01:14:13
Speaker
Get ready for everything scary podcast whose stories of anything under the umbrella of fear are as captivating and humorous as they are well-researched. Hey, how's it going? Good. How are you? Good. ah So here's the deal. We're going to record a super short episode because we were so honored to have been asked to participate with a bunch of other podcasts. Nice. We're all going to share about a 15 minute story. And ah that way different listeners can listen to different pods. And if you like the pod that you listen to, then
01:14:44
Speaker
jump on in. What kind of podcast? Are you wrestling or it's all true crime? It's definitely all true crime. I can't ask. It's not wrestling. There's no dumb questions. If the look at your face implies there may be one or two. And I have to apologize beforehand because brevity, not where I shine. We understandably can't exceed 15 minutes because everybody's got to get a chance. Oh, right. And this is a huge case that I'm doing. So I will be covering it in depth on our pod at some time in the near future because it's fresh on my brain now. But because I am also going to be leaving out a bunch of important details, we're just going to get like the kind of shell of the case so that you understand. Cole's notes. I don't know if that's a reference that Americans get. Cliff notes, probably.
01:15:29
Speaker
And so today we're going to be covering, telling the case of the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders. This takes place just outside of Tulsa, Oklahoma. And I just, I have to say super quickly, Hanson's from Tulsa, ok Oklahoma. I'm going to leave it at that because I only have 15 minutes, but I had to say it. And I love Hanson. a So the theme that we're supposed to go with is like summer crimes. This is a camp crime that takes place at the beginning of ah summer. It was actually June 12th, 1977, 100 to 150 Girl Scouts ah loaded onto the buses and they were headed to Camp Scott, which was about two miles south of Locust Grove, Oklahoma and Mays County.
01:16:11
Speaker
The camp had been open for 49 years, and one of the little girls that was headed to camp was eight-year-old Lori Farmer. Her parents were Sherry and Beau, and they said that it really kicked in how nervous they were to send their oldest child to camp when they watched her load onto the Greyhound bus. Like all the reality just kind of. Yes. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, yeah. No, come on, come on, come on. But she's also eight. She's still a baby. She is a baby. Yeah. But I mean, the 70s I'm sure was a different time. Like we look back on just the 80s and we think about like latchkey kids and stuff and we're like, what the fuck were these parents thinking? I had a patient yesterday, Matt. yeah This is hand to God. yeah Her brother accidentally shot her with a shotgun when she was 11 and he was 12.
01:16:57
Speaker
ah Uh-huh. Anyways, we only have 15 minutes, so let that sit with you. I mean, our American listeners will be like, okay, what do you have a nice Tuesday story? That's nothing. So, you know, Sherry would say that she was worrying the entire time that the bus was on the road that they were going to get into a wreck. So, like, by the time that the enough time had passed and they hadn't heard anything about a bus getting into a wreck, she was like, all right, great. Breathe to sigh of relief. And then just was like, Laurie's going to have an amazing time. All right.
01:17:27
Speaker
Another little girl was 10-year-old Denise Milner. ah Denise did not want to go to camp at all. I hear you, Denise. She was really excited to go at the beginning, but two of her friends were also planning on going, and then they kind of canceled last minute. And so she was going alone. And she was like, I don't want to do this. But her mom was like, OK, listen, go get a feel for it. Meet your cabin mates. And then like if you're so adamant that you don't want to come home, Oh, it's a trap, kids. They calling you breaking up. Yeah, they're like, yeah I want to come home. They're like measuring your bedroom for an elliptical. Yeah. but Sadly, though, that night when all these little kids did arrive to the camp, it was a thunderstorm. And Denise did write her mom like a lengthy letter and saying, I want to come home. And then she signed it, your loving daughter, Denise. oh
01:18:20
Speaker
Then there was Michelle Goussé, who was nine years old. Her parents had put her on the bus that day and were confident they were fine because they had actually sent her the year before and she was she loved it. She had a great time. So when the Girl Scouts arrived at the camp, it was raining and everyone was getting their room assignments. And Michelle, Denise and Laurie were assigned to tent seven. And it's kind of confusing because there is eight tents that go around. But the first tent, which is going to be on the left hand side. it's So it's kind of like a rainbow shape. Okay. So the first tent is the counselor's tent and it doesn't count as a number. Okay. But there are eight tents. So it's like, you read it in different areas and it's either says eight or seven. So they're the same thing. All of the other tents had four occupants except for number seven or eight. And there was another little girl that was actually supposed to be in this tent, but by the time everybody got organized, it was pouring. And so everybody, the counselors and everybody were just like, okay, just sleep in there tonight. just work And then in the morning, we'll get it all sorted out. Did you go to camp? Are you a camper? I went to, um, what's it called up there? Just in Bradford. It was Scanlon. I went to Scanlon Creek when I was in grade seven. What is that? Oh, you what is that place? It's a camp. It's a camp. Yeah. And then I went to Arts Camp. I went to Arts Camp in grade eight, which was so much fun. I saw like weed probably.
01:19:37
Speaker
Except for, I had a crush on a dude and then the last day it was like a dance and he asked my friend Laura to go with him instead of me. So it's fine. You're like, I don't know which way this is going. Hey, what's up? I'm Lynn. Hi, I'm Lynn. How's it going? to so um So the way, like I said, it was a rainbow type um shape that the tents were in. But so you would think like with the one, the counselors tent and then the tent number seven or eight, they're directly parallel to each other. But the shower unit is in between those things. So technically, the only tent that wasn't able to be seen by the counselors was tent number eight. Shit, I don't like that you said that. No. And it's also the youngest campers. Lori Farmer was actually the youngest child that was there at the camp at eight years old. She was turning nine relatively soon. Wow. Yeah. So they had an eight year old, a nine year old and a 10 year old completely out of view of anybody that is above.
01:20:40
Speaker
16 yeah, I was just gonna say like and then the counselors they didn't like because some of the camps I went to the counselors were the highest level of Yeah, count like kids they didn't have a camp like high high up, but she was in like um Like a brick and mortar kind of yeah, of course she had a shower yeah And it's still there to this day It's just abandoned and like I watched a YouTube video of them go through it and they were like videotaping like the kitchen and everything creepy as hell. Oh man. So counselors did a head check at 10 p.m. and then they too went to bed at about 1 30. Camp counselor Carla will hit.
01:21:20
Speaker
was awoken by giggles coming from tent number six, and she and another counselor, Dee Elder, went to check on the kids and tell them to go to sleep. As Carla was headed back to tent one, she heard what she described as a low guttural growl. Woof. Somewhere between a foghorn and a bullfrog, she said. Oh, like a... So she shined her light into the woods and it stopped. And then she went to walk away and it started again. So she shone her light in there again and it stopped again. And so at this point, she was just convinced that it was some type of an animal. Carla awoke next day at 6 a.m. and went to have a shower. As she walked the main path, she noticed a few sleeping bags that were crumpled up at the base of a tree.
01:22:05
Speaker
As she got closer, she realized that there was a child laying in one of the ah sleeping bags and getting closer, she realized that the child's eyes were open and vacant and she was no longer alive. Counselors began checking all of the tents and when they got to ah seven or eight, they discovered no children and no sleeping bags on the beds. Camp director Barbara Day would first call the authorities and then in an extremely strange move, would call the camp's insurance company before calling the parents. She actually called her insurance company and attorney before contacting the parents.
01:22:40
Speaker
I mean, you never know how you're going to react. No, I'm certain you can say that you should not react like that. I'm going to go out on a limb and say, I don't think I would do that. um It's so the correct order, correct me if I'm wrong would be police. parents Parents. Attorney. Some sort of boss. Some way down, like, days later, you're calling your attorney. Like, let's get this fucking figured out right now and then we'll deal with the legalities of it later. Yes, yes. So a bunch of evidence was left behind. Bloody footprints would be left on the wooden base of the girl's tent. A large flashlight that had a black plastic like a garbage bag taped over the light. And then they had just poked a pinhole in it so that they could have like a little bit of light.
01:23:25
Speaker
The inside of the flashlight had also been stuffed with newspaper because you remember those old, humongous flashlights that the battery would like rattle around. So whoever did this wanted that noise being muffled. Yeah. All three girls had been banned and sexually assaulted in one way or another. And a nearby home robbery would show that a crowbar, a rope and tape had been taken from the home and they were believed to be the exact same items that were used in the murders. And those exact items would be found along the fence line of the camp. if When I do go into this deeper, I will give you a bunch of details, but now for brevity's sake, it was not the owner of the shed who was ah robbed. He had nothing to do with it. He was quite a suspect for quite some time, but he was eliminated.
01:24:11
Speaker
A squirrel hunter would come across a cave that was located... Come on! Just say you're a loser. Okay, a loser who would come across a cave that was close to Camp Scotch. I'm a big game squirrel hunter. I'll show them. It looked as though someone had been living there. They found a pair of broken glasses in a beige case, torn masking tape that would later match the tear pattern exactly on the one that was on the flashlight. And two pictures of pretty women. These photos were taken by a prison photographer, Louis Lindsay, who was a prison guard where Jean. OK, so I'm going to tell you who our suspect is.
01:24:52
Speaker
um His name is going to be Gene. hard foing yeah ah I was like, I didn't know what sort of garment his name would sound like. I thought it was Dan with denim, but then I went, Gene, it's got to be. You figured it out. So Gene Leroy Hart, he was a fugitive that was on the run. He had broken out of a prison in 1973. So he had been on the run for four years at this point in time.
01:25:24
Speaker
And he had been sent to jail in 1966 for rapes of two pregnant women at the same time. He also beat them up and put tape covering their mouth and nose and eyes. So he kind of just left them for dead. Wow. He covered them with, you know, brush. And then he went away. These women, of course, survived. And they would also say that when he was raping them, he, too, would let out a low guttural noise, much like the one that oh cancer hurt the murders. So he would be paroled for that crime in 1969. Two pregnant women, three years. Pearl. Yep. Get out of here. What are you doing in here, Gene? He was then put back in jail because of robberies and he was given like something absurd, like 800 years or something. He's like, pregnant women rape. Yeah. Three years and not a day more. But robberies. Did you buy the O. Henry? I don't think you did.
01:26:21
Speaker
Well, that's the OJ robbery thing, right? Oh, Fojay was jaywalking. He was going to go. Yeah, fair enough. His next sentence was going to be fair enough. I like the way you think so positively because I just think that they value robbery more than women. ah But who am I? So then he was able to break out 1973 and this was his second breakout. And an inmate that had broken out with him said that they would carry flashlights when they were committing crimes and they would tape garbage bags covering the lights and would make small pin pricks in the bag so that they could use the tiny little bit of light when they were committing their crimes. This convict would also say that Gene would steal glasses because he had really shitty eyesight. And he was just hoping that one of these days he would steal his perfect prescription. Oh, my God.
01:27:08
Speaker
Maybe wait till you find your perfect pair and then start stealing. Like, I know it's like a chicken in the egg, and hey you but like, you know, one of you can't find them. Fucking idiot. So like I was saying, in that cave, they found these pictures that were taken by the you know prison guard slash photographer. And those particular pictures were ones that Gene himself had actually, what is it called when you make the photo? Oh, commissioned? No. like he directed. No, when you go to like a photo place and they take portrait, take a forward photo, photograph you. Oh, my God. I want to kill you right now. Subject developed, developed. So he had developed those photos. Also in the cave, they would find the rest of the newspaper that went hand in hand with the one that had been shoved in the flashlight. And it was also written on the cave walls. The killer was here. Bye bye, fools. Seventy seven six, seventeen.
01:28:03
Speaker
What an idiot. is Yeah. So ah like I mentioned before, we will be doing a way deeper dive on this case, but there's so much more. um They finally were able to arrest Jean. He was found at a friend's home and taken into custody during his preliminary hearing. Jean would be acquitted of his crimes. Oh. Wow. He was a native to the area and by native I mean it in every, he was like ah indigenous. Yeah. And he, he was very respected in the area and he had so many family and friends and supporters that they were actually rallying out front of the courthouse.
01:28:40
Speaker
for No shit. But luckily, he still had all those bajillion years that he had to serve for stealing an O. Henry. Oh, yeah. So they were like, hey, well, you're fucking you broke out. Like, you can't just go back. So go to jail. And um lucky for everyone, two months after his preliminary hearing, Gene would drop dead in the work yard as he ah had an apparent heart attack. He was 35. Oh, nice. But in demon years, I think it's a lot more. Yeah, it's like dogs. It's like seven years. to the, I don't know. In 2019, they would test the DNA that was located and it would cost tens of thousands of dollars that the sheriff's department did not have, but people in the community would rally and they came up with the money. And there was two DNA samples, but they only had partial profiles. One was a hair follicle and the other was semen that was left on one of the little girl's sleeping bags.
01:29:35
Speaker
They were only able to say that it did not rule Gene LeRoy Hart out, but anyone else that was on the list of suspects was able to be ruled out with those partial profiles. Who who rallied his his supporters? to No, no, no. Well, it's 2019, too. So we're talking. 22 years later. Right. OK. And like, I don't and understand, like his friends and family. Yeah, whatever. But you can't kill three babies. like No. So um that is the extremely condensed version. Wow. And I will be posting.
01:30:12
Speaker
letters that all three girls wrote to send home to their parents on their first night of camp. Devastatingly, the parents would not receive the letters until after their children had passed. I will also post a picture of the tent set up so that you guys can understand. And our Instagram is at everything scary pod. And thanks for listening. Hope to hear from you again. We really, guys, come join us. We're a lot of fun. We're kind of cool. I mean, some people said say they have said it before. There's been a guy. Ice cream said it. OK. okay OK, bye. by
01:30:48
Speaker
Rounding out our lineup is Private Dicks, a group of podcasters known for their ability to turn up the humorous heat on unsolved mysteries.
Preview of El Chupacabra Discussion
01:30:59
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Richard here from Private Dicks podcast. Thanks for getting us in on this summertime collab. We're excited to do it. What you're getting today is a preview for an upcoming episode of Private Dicks, which will be airing on July 31st on our feed. It's about El Chupacabra, the Puerto Rican goat sucker or the Texan goat sucker. So if you like comedy, you like solving mysteries, if you like having a new guest on the episodes, each and every single episode, and if you can handle it a little bit of swearing, then this podcast is for you. I bleeped out the swears in this one for the people who do not like the swears. so
01:31:44
Speaker
I'm thinking about you. I love you guys. Okay. So if you do have time and you want to listen to something new, something a little different, please just give us a chance and go subscribe to our feed, download a bunch of episodes, and hopefully we're your cup of tea. Thanks for listening. Here's a little preview of El Chupacabra.
01:32:14
Speaker
ex-wife am i right Is that because you captured her and used her as a prop in a horror movie? yeah real blood sucker ah Yeah, I didn't think, I thought I knew what El Chupacabra was when I first started reading on this, but like, what I thought was it was a Mexican cryptid that ate goats. Chupacabra starts in Puerto Rico, but there's been reports of Chupacabra in Mexico, Chile, Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Florida, Texas. There's even one sighting in China. yeah like He's made his way over to Asia.
01:32:46
Speaker
All right, let's, this episode is hard to do because it's like so, but okay, let's start with the name. Chupacabra literally means goat sucker in Spanish. So like Chupar means suck and Cabra means goat. So it's literally goat sucker. That's fun, right? Goat sucker rocks as an insult. It is pretty good as an insult. Look at this Chupacabra.
01:33:12
Speaker
They don't actually like eat goats. What you said, they're vampiric, so they like suck the blood out of goats and other livestock. Goats just, I don't know, for some reason seem to be their favorite meal from all these reports that are out there, but they've also known to suck the blood of cats, sheep, rabbits, dogs, chickens, ducks, hogs. Hogsucker.
01:33:33
Speaker
Hogsucker might have been better than goatsucker. You're probably right. Do you think this thing ever goes after roosters?
Chupacabra Descriptions and Origins
01:33:46
Speaker
but i say chicken Anyways, honestly, like, man, I had to look up this chupacabra for hours because it's so all over the place and the Internet doesn't have that all that much. Like, yes, it has lots, but it's all over the place. So I was like, you know what? I'm going to read a book on this. on someone who like did some work on some Chupacabra action. And it's a book called Tracking the Chupacabra by Benjamin Radford from 2011. And it was good. I enjoyed it a lot because he's a huge skeptic. So he just went to go. He like you researched the Chupacabra for five years, rolling down leads like all over South America, like all over the world, really, and just to like debunk them. like I love that. like All you're doing, dude, is just ruining these people's prize pieces. Yeah, exactly. I can find that hilarious. This guy's walking around kicking sand castles over. This is what he's doing. Yeah. Because there's so much like, it like, what is he going to do? Like try to make himself happy somehow else? Like, no, that's yeah that's so much more difficult. Everyone knows that. Like way easier to just like bring other people down to your level. I love this dude.
01:34:48
Speaker
Yeah, it was fun to read. But I did even read that book, you find out how laughable the whole chupacabra thing is, because it's so vastly the same and so vastly different at the same time. It's crazy. It is the newest of all the cryptids, which I found that was interesting. Like it started 1995, really. So it's internet age. It's like first thing that's like grown from the internet. But like the Chupacabra, no one really even has a full blown description for it. Like there's so many different descriptions. So wait, hold on one second. You're telling me that they haven't come up with any other cryptid since 1995. It was just the first one from the internet age, like from 95. The newest like Slender Man's not really a cryptid. He's really a monster. Like, like you can't really think of anything that's been created past. Like what? Like a, like an animal that lives out in the bush that we haven't seen. Hmm. What was it? That Montauk monster thing that was going around? Like, I don't know. It had to be like 10, 15 years ago or something. I know what you're talking about, but I'm pretty sure that's an oldie. It's not older than the Chupacabra. I'm looking it up right now because I know what you're talking about. 2000 years later. Oh, no, that's from 2008.
01:35:50
Speaker
One of the things I found really interesting about the whole sucking of blood is that in the first wave in Puerto Rico, and not so much once it moved to different parts of the world, something we found when we were looking at it over coffee, was that a lot of these neck puncture wounds when followed with different instruments in an autopsy after the fact, the puncture wounds always went to the brain. yeah So whatever it was that was going into the neck, the assumption was they were long enough where they were also puncturing the brains, like they they was always directed. They would follow these puncture wounds and they were always directed.
01:36:28
Speaker
so it's just weird that's the first account of the first hundred in port in Puerto Rico but then it changes but okay let's i will talk about the autopsies later like no one's ever actually done an autopsy on it and if they have Benjamin Radford did a terrible job because that's all he wanted was to go he wanted to find one honestly but like If you know he never found anybody who actually did ever did an autopsy on one of these things, they just say it sucked ah dry blood. And we'll talk about that later. But like, I love this guy. But the chupacabra even in early times was described like 10 different ways. And then now it's like describe, like, okay, here's the fun ways. This is how this been described. Okay, been described been described by people who've actually said they've found a dead chupacabra too. So let's let's keep that in mind. This thing's been caught or at least a carcass has been found of a chupacabra. Allegedly. Allegedly. So here's the thing, the way this has been described. Brayskinned, but also hairy. Could have scales like some sort of lizard. Chupa sometimes changes color like a chameleon. Also saw it was three feet tall or five feet tall or four feet tall. It has a huge nose or it doesn't have a nose at all. Just two nostrils. It walked like a monkey or a kangaroo or a dog or- I don't appreciate this because this does sound like some of the dates I've been on.
01:37:41
Speaker
Oh, this one's going to sound like your current wife. I'm just kidding. Wow. OK. Take that, Misty. It says that spikes run down its back or it has feathers running down its back or it's a mixture of spikes and feathers running down its back. It's got long limbs with giant claws or like short limbs with giant claws or like their toes are webbed or like they're not webbed. but like they have webbed arms so they kind of glide like a flying squirrel but also not that because they could have wings sometimes they're bat wings but like sometimes they're just like straight up feathered wings whatever wings you want they usually have its mouth has two giant protruding fangs that's the only thing that's usually the same in anything
01:38:31
Speaker
eyes were in the front of its face or the side of its face or near the mouth on the base of its face lids eyelids sometimes sometimes not eyes were blood red sometimes also sometimes orange yellow sometimes not even a weird color at all they're just normal colors sometimes this is another thing you said earlier sometimes there's even a description of the creature that it has like basic language skills So like, I'm not gonna tell you every encounter for a chupacabra, because there's been so many, but I'm gonna tell you this one. Apparently, there was a witness who locked eyes with the creature and said, if you're a chupacabra, you're a pretty sorry excuse for a creature. But it was in Spanish, because it was Mexico when this happened. And then the chupacabra turned to her and replied, pendejo. So they swears at people, okay? ah Not even the funniest one. Hey, what does that mean? It means asshole, I think, pendejo.
01:39:25
Speaker
Pretty sure. Pendejo. Anyways, that's not even the funniest one. ah One account, Chupacabra said that ah some farmers like, you know what, AIDS comes from Chupacabras because they fuck the cows. You know what I mean? They fuck my cows. And then that's how AIDS came about. Makes sense to me. wasn't us what It wasn't I didn't fuck the cow. This is another one. For no reason should any of you smell my dick right now.
01:39:52
Speaker
There's another story, and this is reported in a newspaper, that the chebaca ah adopted a ah Chewbacca the chpacabra it's you facabra abducted a little girl, tattooed a series of letters and numbers on her forearm, dropped the little girl off and then escaped. I don't know. i don't know It's got a tattoo gun now, too. Never captured that one. Like I said, the only thing that's the same in any of these, like as they go, like some of them are similar, but they just keep going all over the map. It gets crazy. The only thing that's similar is the big long teeth. They are saying big, long, sharp canines. Yeah, I just ah I just did a Google image search. It's been a while since I've seen a Chupacabra depiction. And I will say um across the board, there is a zero sense of consistency in Yeah, it's crazy, right? The consistency is only, if there's one thing that's consistent, is that all of the reports of anything that was bipedal with no tail, things looked at as being a kangaroo or quite possibly a monkey or something, those sightings were all in and around Puerto Rico, where where it seems, and what is the city where it started? It starts with an M, I forget now. We looked at it. Mount Chupacabra?
01:41:05
Speaker
ah method Yeah, like that would be good. as boca Yeah, okay. So this place, anything in and around there, it's similar and in what the descriptions was. And everything we saw suggested that once it left from that part of the world, this is where it became more of like a dog like thing, you know. Yeah, for sure. And that's that's kind of what's fun about this is that it like, it's so confusing and it still captured people's imagination for a long
Chupacabra Types and Initial Attacks
01:41:33
Speaker
time. It's still around today. But what I did find out is there's two different kinds of chupacabra and that's what you're trying to say right now. So there's the original chupacabra, which they call the Puerto Rican chupacabra.
01:41:42
Speaker
And then there's the chupacabra that it turned into, which they're calling the Texan chupacabra. Similar in a lot of ways, but different in a lot of different ways as well. So let's just go from the beginning and then we'll work our way into like how this moved around. So like you said, start in Puerto Rico. A lot of accounts first place the attacks of the chupacabra in a small town of Mocha, Puerto Rico, 1975. During the months of February and March of that year, some unknown beasts had attacked and killed some animals around various farms over a hundred in one night at some point. I just watched Private Dicks and I think RJ is the finest. What? Come on!
01:42:24
Speaker
And that wraps up the first segment of our series, Hot Pursuit. We hope these stories have not only captivated you, but also inspired you to think more deeply about each case. Justice is a pursuit that never truly ends, and sometimes it needs a little help from the public to keep that fire burning. A huge thank you to all the podcasters who contributed to this collaborative effort. Your passion and dedication to uncovering the truth and telling these important stories is what makes the true crime community so powerful. Remember, you can always find more information on these cases in our show notes. Make sure you subscribe to the podcasters you enjoy so you never miss a new episode.
01:43:03
Speaker
And if you have any tips or information about the cases discussed, don't hesitate to reach out to the appropriate authorities. Together, we can help bring justice to those who need it most. In the hot pursuit of the truth, we're all in this together.