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E253: Billy Mansfield, Jr. and The Man In The White Van
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In the 1970s and 80s, the quiet towns of Weeki Wachee, Florida, and Watsonville, California, became the unlikely settings for a horrifying series of crimes. The story begins with Billy Mansfield, Jr., a convicted serial killer currently serving multiple life sentences, whose crimes shocked the nation. But Billy wasn’t alone; his father, William Mansfield Sr., a convicted child molester, and brother, Gary Mansfield, were also deeply entangled in the family’s dark history. The crimes discussed in this episode raise chilling questions about the full extent of their horrific actions as we explore the twisted family dynamics and shocking discoveries. This episode concludes with an exclusive interview with Warren Skeels, the director of the upcoming film The Man In The White Van, based upon Mansfield, Jr’s crimes and premiering December 13th, 2024.
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Transcript
Fascination with Psychology Experiments
00:00:00
Speaker
In college, I minored in psychology. I've always been fascinated by human behavior and what drives us to take certain actions. My attention was wrapped when learning about Milgram's shock experiment, about Zimbardo's Stanford prison experiment, and about Asch's conformity experiment, among others.
Nature vs. Nurture Debate
00:00:21
Speaker
I could spend hours thinking and talking about nature versus nurture and to what extent we are who we are because we were born that way and biologically predisposed to certain traits or whether our environment is what truly shapes us or to what degree it's both.
Focus on Intergenerational Crime
00:00:41
Speaker
Our episode this week will be a bit different in that I'm not going to talk about one crime, but several all perpetrated by members of one family. We'll talk about psychology and intergenerational crime. We'll talk about the justice system. And we'll talk about the victims of unthinkable crime after unthinkable crime. This episode covers the crimes of Billy Mansfield Jr.
Introduction to 'Coffee and Cases'
00:01:45
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases, where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement.
00:02:01
Speaker
so justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because, as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive.
Discussion on 'The Man in the White Van' Movie
00:02:18
Speaker
So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:02:23
Speaker
Prior to a few months ago, I had not heard of Billy Mansfield Jr. However, a representative from Relativity Media reached out concerning a movie that will actually be released this week, tomorrow in fact, called The Man in the White Van starring Madison Wolf, Sean Astin, Ali Larter, and so many other talented actors.
00:02:45
Speaker
For the film, director Warren Skiles, who, fun fact, also directed Siesta Key on MTV, heard a story from a survivor that stuck with him so much so that he knew he had to tell the story. And in doing so, he wanted to focus on the victims.
Trigger Warning: Graphic Content
00:03:02
Speaker
So after I tell you about the crimes, listeners, I'll include the interview I did with Skiles in which he talks about the story behind the film, as well as his ultimate message.
00:03:15
Speaker
Now, getting into the cases themselves, I'll tell you that I struggled a lot with where to start and how to tell this story because the public didn't learn information, obviously chronologically. In keeping with that, I decided that I'm going to start with the crime that coincides with much of the information being made public about Billy Mansfield Jr. and his family, and then weave back and forth between past and present.
00:03:45
Speaker
Before I begin, I must give a strong warning to listeners of this episode because it covers topics like abuse, molestation of children, rape, murder, and dismemberment.
Renee Sailing's Last Night
00:04:00
Speaker
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
00:04:04
Speaker
The air in the Watsonville, California tavern called the Wooden Nickel II hung thick with the scent of stale beer and anticipation on December 6th, 1980. 29-year-old Renee Sailing, a mother of three, laughed easily with those around her, her presence a bright spark in the dimly lit
The Abduction and Murder of Renee Sailing
00:04:25
Speaker
room. She was beautiful, a striking figure easily noticed even in the crowded space. Little did she know,
00:04:33
Speaker
This would be her last carefree night. The shadows of the bar held a perpetrator. It was a man who turned his attention on Renee. Later, she was seen leaving with this man. At some point after Renee walked outside, though, according to Season 8, Episode 9 of the docuseries,
00:04:55
Speaker
world's most evil killers found on Amazon. This man walked up to what was referred to as an acquaintance and told him that he could take a look at the girl he had outside in his car, but not to, quote, let her go, keep her locked up, end quote. The episode in this docu-series said that the acquaintance did go out to the car, but that he couldn't understand what Renee was saying from inside the car.
Capture of Billy and Gary Mansfield
00:05:22
Speaker
And so,
00:05:24
Speaker
He had returned to the bar. The next morning on December 7th, 1980, Renee Sailing's body was discovered in a drainage ditch in Watsonville along Buena Vista Road. Her blouse had been torn and her pants were pulled down around her ankles. Despite the appearance that she had been the victim of sexual assault, the medical examiner was unable to determine if she had been. What was obvious was the cause of death.
00:05:53
Speaker
strangulation, since a nylon rope was bound so tightly around her neck that it was no longer visible in some places because it was so embedded in her skin. Police rather quickly were able to determine that the man from the bar, the one Renee was last to seen with, was Billy Mansfield Jr. and that he was living with his brother Gary at the local KOA campground.
00:06:19
Speaker
I don't know about you, but I distinctly remember seeing signs for KOA campgrounds along the interstate. I remember the bright yellow background and the structure in red and black on it. This KOA campground was only a few miles from where Renee's body was discovered. However, by the time police arrived at the campground, the Mansfield brothers had already fled.
00:06:45
Speaker
Law enforcement issued an all-points bulletin to be on the lookout for the pair and provided a physical description. Luckily, on December 10, just a few days later, an officer in Winnemucca, Nevada, a town of only about 8,000 people, pulled a van over. In that van were two men who fit the descriptions the officer had just read about.
00:07:09
Speaker
Despite the two who were Billy Mansfield Jr. and his brother Gary giving the officer false names initially, he arrested them. And once their identities were discovered, they were extradited to California. Billy to face murder charges in Renee Sailing's case and his brother Gary with accessory to murder charges after the fact and helping Billy to flee.
00:07:35
Speaker
Billy Mansfield Jr.'s trial was set for mid-1981 with Gary's to follow. But before that trial could begin, some discoveries were to come to light that I'll tell you about in just a moment. For the time being, back to the trial, it's important that I tell you the primary evidence linking Billy to Renee Sailing was a fiber from his pants that was found on her body. The rest was circumstantial.
Billy Mansfield Jr.'s Background
00:08:05
Speaker
Consequently, the jury in that trial deadlocked at 9-3, resulting in a mistrial. The sources do not specify who testified in this first trial, beyond mentioning that the prosecution's case relied heavily on that circumstantial evidence. This first trial did not allow the introduction of evidence about the discoveries that, again, I'll tell you about in just a moment.
00:08:31
Speaker
Before I get to those discoveries, I want to go way back to Billy Mansfield Jr.'s childhood. You'll see why as I get further into the details. Now, speaking of details, there are so many inconsistencies in the sources about Billy Mansfield Jr.'s life, and I don't understand why. But I'll mention those as we have our discussion.
00:08:57
Speaker
Billy Mansfield Jr., born in 1956 in Grand Rapids, Michigan, was the oldest of his siblings, though the exact number of siblings is one of those details for which there is no consistency. Somewhere between four and six, it seems, mostly boys and one girl who died as a toddler. His home life was horrific because his father, William Mansfield Sr., was horrific.
00:09:26
Speaker
I want to tell you about the father because this will set the stage for talking about intergenerational crime, or the tendency for children to exhibit similar criminal behavior to their parents. Research shows that it's the strongest family risk factor for children becoming offenders.
00:09:45
Speaker
Though I do want to clarify that violence and crime, in my opinion, are still choices. The theory of intergenerational crime is not meant here to excuse any of the crimes that we will discuss in this episode. Billy Mansfield Sr. had a long criminal history, beginning with an attempted rape charge in Michigan in 1946. He was 21 and the girl was only 13.
00:10:14
Speaker
Sadly, at trial, Billy Mansfield Sr. was acquitted because the jury didn't believe the young girl. He was later convicted of armed robbery and sentenced to five to 20 years, but paroled after only four. Just a few years after his release for the armed robbery charge, William Mansfield Sr. was again imprisoned, not just for violating parole,
00:10:40
Speaker
but also due to a new rape charge in Nevada. He clearly didn't have any reverence for the law of the land, nor for people, and his violent and abusive nature wasn't just directed at strangers, but also at members of his own family.
00:10:57
Speaker
He reportedly encouraged his sons to be physically violent toward one another, and depending on which source you read, neighbors recall seeing him chase his children down the street, either threatening them with a 2x4 or with a gun.
00:11:12
Speaker
Eldest son Billy Jr. struggled in school and waffled between being bullied and doing the bullying. He also had, even as a young teen, faced several criminal charges. At age 14, Billy Jr. was charged with the molestation of a 14-year-old girl as she was coming home from school. All he received as punishment was a stern talking to.
00:11:38
Speaker
Then, at age 15, he was charged with petty larceny. You can see now his crimes nearly mirror those of William Mansfield Sr.'s. And I feel like the justice system failed all of us when none of the charges leveled at either of them were taken seriously. Then, at age 15 and a sophomore in high school, Billy Jr. dropped out of school, altered his birth certificate, and joined the army.
00:12:09
Speaker
He was barely in the army a year when he was less than honorably discharged. Some sources say it was because they discovered the truth about the falsified birth certificate and others that it was due to the alcohol addiction he developed in the military. He returned home to his family and started one of his own.
00:12:29
Speaker
Billy Jr. married a woman named Phyllis. At this point, I believe I read he was 17 and she was 16. The two had a child together prior to their marriage, and Phyllis gave birth to their second child after the couple married.
00:12:46
Speaker
Their marriage was, as she would later reveal, turbulent and abusive. And during the marriage, Billy Jr. was suspected for a slew of crimes, mostly sexual assault cases. For example, in 1974 in Michigan, he was charged with kidnapping and sexually assaulting two women. Again, sadly, and that's a word I feel I will use a lot in this episode, when it went to trial, he was acquitted.
00:13:14
Speaker
because the jury refused to believe that one man could have held two women captive simultaneously. It was around this time also that William Mansfield Sr. was set to be released concerning his rape charge.
00:13:29
Speaker
After William Mansfield Sr.'s release, he moved, along with his wife Virginia and their children, to Wiki Wachi, Florida, now called Spring Hill, Florida, in 1974. And not only did the violence perpetrated by multiple members of the Mansfield family continue, it escalated, though the public didn't know it at the time.
00:13:51
Speaker
With the past charges against both Billy Jr. and his father, William Sr., in Michigan, this move was one both wanted to make. The reason was clear. Go to a place where people didn't know them. What is unclear during this period is how much time Billy Jr. spent in Florida versus Michigan. Because we know he spent time in both, as you'll hear about shortly. He was causing chaos everywhere he went.
00:14:20
Speaker
In 1976, he was charged with drunken disorderly conduct for which he made bail. But as he was leaving the jail, he was again arrested for the rape of a 16-year-old girl. He pled guilty and served only six months.
00:14:37
Speaker
Then in 1978, two years later, he was charged with the rape of two teenagers held at knife point. Even though he faced an extensive sentence for this crime, while he was incarcerated, Billy Junior's cellmate confessed to him about the murder of of an 11-year-old girl. So in exchange for testifying about his cellmate's confession, Billy Junior was released after only one year, which was time served.
00:15:05
Speaker
During that time when Billy Jr. was incarcerated for his crimes from 1978 to 1979, his first wife Phyllis took the opportunity when he was away to file for divorce and to go back to her hometown of Grand Rapids. When Billy Jr. was released in February 1980, he went back to live with his parents in Wiki Wachi, Florida.
00:15:30
Speaker
On June 19th, 1980, 18-year-old Pamela Sherrill went to the police station, terrified to file a report. She had been walking down the road when a man forced her into his van, took her to his trailer, began beating her and attempted to rape her. In the attack, she was able to grab a knife and using it to threaten her captor to escape.
00:15:56
Speaker
She ran straight to the police to file the report, but when the police got to the trailer, a trailer that belonged to Billy Mansfield Jr., he was long gone. He had only been out of prison for about four months.
00:16:12
Speaker
And just a few weeks later, having been able to evade authorities in the meantime, Billy Jr. and his brother Gary decided to leave Florida and go to California, which is where we began our episode. But the brothers moved in late summer and Billy Jr. was arrested in Santa Cruz, California on November 23rd, 1980 because of that Florida warrant for his crimes against Pamela Sherrill.
Discovery of Victims on Mansfield Property
00:16:38
Speaker
However, sadly, again, he posted bail, and only two weeks later, Renee Sailing was killed. And I haven't even told you about the discoveries that were made that couldn't be brought up in trial.
00:16:56
Speaker
During the time of Billy Mansfield Jr.'s last arrest before Sailing's murder, his father, William Mansfield Sr., was also arrested again. This time, he was indicted on 40 charges of sexual crimes against children between the ages of 3 and 15. One was only 9 months old when the abuse began, according to the Tampa Bay Times.
00:17:22
Speaker
Ultimately, William Mansfield Sr. pled no contest to four of the charges and was sentenced to 30 years in prison in 1980, not nearly long enough in my opinion. But just like with Billy Jr., William Mansfield Sr. was released for good behavior after only 10 years.
00:17:45
Speaker
We are talking about perpetual reoffenders here. I know some may disagree with me, but with that level of recidivism, where you get out and reoffend, get out and reoffend, at some point you've got to say, no more, you are serving your full sentence.
00:18:06
Speaker
During this 10-year time period with William Sr. in prison and Billy and Gary awaiting trial for the murder of Renee Sailing in California, according to my sources, several anonymous tips came in that there had been other crimes that took place on the Mansfield family property in Wiki Wachi, Florida, and that should police search the premises.
00:18:29
Speaker
they would find the body of a girl who had been missing for a year, 21-year-old Sandra Graham, who disappeared from Tampa, Florida in April 1980, a time period two months after Billy Mansfield Jr.'s release and two months before the abduction and attempted rape of Pamela Sherrill.
00:18:50
Speaker
This girl that the tips mentioned, Sandra Jean Graham, was a 21-year-old woman from Tampa, Florida, who vanished in April 1980. And I'm intentional about not saying the specific date because different newspaper accounts have different dates, though the most common date is April 17th. She was last seen in a bar called Pan's Liquor Lounge near where Billy Mansfield Jr. lived at the time.
00:19:15
Speaker
She had been playing pool and enjoying drinks, her laughter echoing in the dimly lit space. Little did she know that this night of casual fun would be her last.
00:19:27
Speaker
As the night wore on, she engaged in conversation with a man described as having, quote, piercing eyes, end quote. This detail, seemingly innocuous at the time, would later become a chilling clue in the unfolding mystery. She left her purse, glasses, and cigarettes at the bar as she walked outside with a man she had just met, a poignant reminder of a life abruptly interrupted. Then she disappeared.
00:19:55
Speaker
The search for Sandra Graham began, but like so many missing person cases we've covered on the show, it quickly grew cold. The weeks turned into months and still no sign of her. According to an article by Anastasia Dawson for the Tampa Bay Times, quote, the publicity from the Renee Sailing case led an anonymous tipster to call Hernando authorities and asked him to search Manfield Junior's home for Sandra Graham, end quote.
00:20:23
Speaker
The Mansfield property, where the whole family resided, a sprawling junkyard surrounding the family's home in Spring Hill, became the focus of a massive search in March 1981. For law enforcement tasked with the search, the atmosphere was heavy with a sense of foreboding of what they would uncover. Neighbors referred to the property as the House of Horrors, a name that spoke volumes about the dark secrets it held that were soon revealed.
00:20:52
Speaker
Hernando County law enforcement took the anonymous tips seriously and began digging on the Mansfield family property on March 16th, 1981. And searching the property was no small feat. This was five or six acres of densely wooded land that held several trailers, abandoned vehicles, and well, junk. In fact, some sources literally referred to the property as a junkyard.
00:21:20
Speaker
However, after only one day of searching on March 17th, 1981, they uncovered human remains. The remains, though, were not those of Sandra Graham. They were, however, from a white woman in her twenties, found curled in the fetal position and wrapped in a blanket. She had a fractured skull and both her wrists and her neck had been bound with wire.
00:21:47
Speaker
Law enforcement were unable to identify her, so she became Jane Doe, number one. Police were still looking for Graham's remains. A little over a week later, on March 25, 1981, a second set of remains were discovered buried beneath the home's water pipes. Law enforcement were able to use dental records to identify this victim as 15-year-old Elaine Zeigler.
00:22:15
Speaker
Fifteen-year-old Elaine Louise Ziegler from Parkman, Ohio had been on vacation to ring in the New Year with her mother, Betty, and her stepfather, Blaine Chalker, at a KOA campground near Brooksville, Florida. The family trip took a dark turn on New Year's Eve, 1975, when Elaine vanished.
00:22:36
Speaker
Elaine was last seen going to the campground showers around 10.30 p.m. When she failed to return, her parents filed a missing persons report. Law enforcement investigating the case interviewed several witnesses, one who said they saw a girl matching Elaine's description who was seen riding a motorcycle, and another who said they saw a girl of her description talking to a man who looked to be in his 20s. The man had been near the shower area, and they had seen Elaine get into his light blue 1966 Ford Fair Lane.
00:23:12
Speaker
As for a description, the man had a beard and quote, piercing eyes and quote, and the car had a Florida license plate. These conflicting accounts added to the confusion and the growing fear surrounding Elaine's disappearance. Her parents remained at the campground for another six weeks to aid in the search before eventually returning to Ohio without their daughter.
00:23:38
Speaker
Convinced that she would not have run away of her own volition, someone must have taken her. But who? And where? Only now did Elaine Ziegler's family have those answers. Based on her date of disappearance in 1975, Elaine was the first known victim.
00:24:01
Speaker
But remember, these remains were not those of Sandra Graham from the anonymous letter. So the search continued. On April 3rd, a third body was found. This one too was not Sandra Graham. And just like the first body found without any DNA matches, she became Jane Doe number two.
00:24:26
Speaker
Fast forward another four days to April 7, 1981. Law enforcement found a fourth skeleton on the property. This one was a match for Sandra Graham. The tipster had been right.
00:24:40
Speaker
In all, after five weeks of searching the property, that search ended. I can only assume because, number one, they discover the remains of the one linked by the tipster letter, and number two, because of the cost of the search itself. In further attempts at identification, the skulls of the two Jane Does were sent to Colorado State University for molds to be made as facial reconstruction. Based on the decomposition, both were believed to have likely gone missing around 1979.
00:25:13
Speaker
But as they were being uncovered at the time when Mansfield Jr. was in jail in California awaiting trial for the murder of Renee Sailing, none of those four bodies found on the property could be brought up in that trial. Recall that the first trial with only the pant hair as concrete evidence had ended in a mistrial.
00:25:37
Speaker
After that conclusion, the prosecution decided to try Billy Jr. again. This time, with more evidence coming from a seemingly unlikely source, Billy's brother, Gary. Remember that Gary was initially charged as an accessory in Sailing's murder.
00:25:56
Speaker
for allegedly helping Billy flee the scene. However, Gary struck a deal with prosecutors agreeing to testify against his brother Billy in exchange for immunity from prosecution. This immunity was contingent upon his brother Billy's conviction in California.
00:26:16
Speaker
I'll add here also that following the first trial, Billy attempted and succeeded at a prison escape, climbing to a rooftop and jumping a fence. However, after he and another inmate were seen running down the road in their orange jumpsuits, the police were notified and he was recaptured within 12 hours. Now it was Florida's turn to indict Billy on four murder charges in January, 1982.
00:26:46
Speaker
In Billy Junior's second trial, he was found guilty and sentenced to 25 years to life on April 6th, 1982 for Sailing's murder.
Legal Outcomes and Plea Deals
00:27:06
Speaker
Unlike the 25 years to life he received for that murder, when Billy Jr. faced charges for the four murders in Florida, he faced the death penalty. If prosecution didn't go for the death penalty, the charge would, again, be life.
00:27:22
Speaker
which would mean the possibility of parole in 25 years. And with Billy Jr. only being 26 when he was charged with these crimes, and it was easy to picture him older because of all the crimes I've mentioned, that would mean that he would only be in his early 50s when eligible for parole. For that reason, they decided to go for the death penalty because they didn't want to chance that.
00:27:48
Speaker
Rather than gamble with a jury and the potential fate of the death penalty, though, Billy Mansfield Jr. pled guilty to all four murders and received the punishment of a life sentence for each. Now, what I do not for the life of me understand is why these life sentences now for five murders were set to run concurrently.
00:28:14
Speaker
at the same time, meaning he was eligible for parole after only 25 years. Unlike previous times, at his first attempt at parole, Billy was denied and has been each time he has gone before the parole board, the last time being in 2022.
00:28:36
Speaker
Before you go feeling like justice was served, even in some small way, I feel like I need to add here, however, that the horrors these women faced in their last moments on the Mansfield family property weren't only by Billy Mansfield Jr.
00:28:53
Speaker
According to an article in the Tampa Bay Times by Anastasia Dawson, quote, court documents said the women were all sexually assaulted by both Mansfield Jr., his younger brother Gary, and their father, William Mansfield Sr. It was Mansfield Jr., though, who would eventually kill the women and often dismember them, court records said, end quote.
00:29:21
Speaker
But that isn't the end of the story. According to Jimmy Brown, a former deputy state attorney interviewed for the Amazon series World's Most Evil Killers, Season 8, Episode 9 on Billy Mansfield Jr. After Billy Jr. sentencing in 1982 for the Florida crimes, he approached the prosecutors with a deal.
00:29:43
Speaker
If his father could be released and he be given immunity in each state he was prepared to mention, he told law enforcement that he would give details about other crimes and that families of approximately 80 victims would have closure. And the thought that the 80 victim number could even be a possibility shows the extent of the horrors to which law enforcement believed Billy Mansfield Jr. was capable.
00:30:11
Speaker
He and Gary were known to frequent KOA campgrounds across the country. And, listeners, let me remind you that in the late 70s, early 80s, there were over 900 KOA campgrounds across the United States. How many unsolved missing person cases or murders took place in or around those campgrounds in the years when the Mansfield's were not in prison?
00:30:38
Speaker
Additionally, with Billy Jr. in prison for the murders, his brother Gary Mansfield's arrest record continued to grow, mostly with drug charges. In late October 2020, local law enforcement in Spring Hills, Florida showed up at the Mansfield property to arrest Gary Mansfield on drug charges.
00:30:57
Speaker
According to Melanie Michael for Fox 5 San Diego, as Gary was being put into the police car, he began yelling loudly that he wanted immunity for the drug charges because he could give them information.
00:31:11
Speaker
There are bodies buried all over the property," he yelled. An article from Inside Edition published November 2nd, 2020 provided the following statement from the Hernando County Sheriff's Office, quote, detectives located items on a nearby property that were deemed to be suspicious. These items are separate and apart from the narcotics investigation and have been sent for laboratory testing, end quote.
00:31:40
Speaker
With time, how many more crimes may come to light, or truths reveal themselves? It is the knowledge that Billy Mansfield Jr. would often, according to court documents, present abducted and bound girls to his brother and father, and that all three would do horrifying things. That has led Billy Mansfield Jr.'s son, also named Billy, to wonder if his uncle played more of a role in the crimes than initially believed.
00:32:12
Speaker
In an interview with Billy Mansfield Jr.'s son by reporter Aaron Mesmer for FOX 13 News, quote, I want to find out if they found anything and how old it is, he said, adding, if Gary Mansfield did tell authorities about more remains, he wants to know why it took so long. Why didn't he give these people their family members back 40 years ago if he knew them bodies were there? End quote.
00:32:37
Speaker
While I understand Billy Mansfield Jr. son's desire to level the blame elsewhere, to me, these were crimes perpetuated by all of the individuals involved.
Victim Identification Through DNA
00:32:51
Speaker
Even more recently, on July 20, 2022, the Tampa Bay Times reported that one of the Jane Does was identified as Teresa Fillingham. She was a week away from turning 17 when she had been reported missing by her sister on May 16, 1980. She was last seen in the Tampa area.
00:33:13
Speaker
According to her sister, Margaret Johns, she knew something was terribly wrong after Teresa failed to show up for a job interview. You see, Teresa had recently moved to Florida from a foster home in Washington state to live with her sister and start fresh. Finding a job had been part of that plan. According to the world's most evil killers episode, since Teresa had a history of running away,
00:33:38
Speaker
Law enforcement initially believed she had done so again, and her case quickly went cold. Decades later, the development of advanced DNA technology offered a new hope for identifying the unknown victims found on the Mansfield property. In 2020, investigators finally developed a DNA profile from the remains that were later identified as chorises, which had been sent to numerous labs over the years.
00:34:03
Speaker
The sample was sent to the University of North Texas seeking a match in national databases, but the search yielded no results in 2020. They tried again in 2022 using Parabon Nano Labs Snapshot DNA Phenotyping Service. This technology predicts the victim's ancestry, skin color, freckling, eye color, face shape, hair color, giving investigators new leads.
00:34:30
Speaker
The DNA profile generated by Parabon led investigators to Teresa's sister, Margaret Johns. A DNA sample from Johns confirmed the identity of her sister's remains. As you can imagine, the news brought a mixture of emotions for Johns and her family.
00:34:46
Speaker
According to a July 25, 2022 article in the New York Post, Johns expressed a sense of peace knowing her sister hadn't simply run away, but also sadness that many members of her family had died never knowing what had happened to Teresa. But her story, like those of the other women found on the Mansfield property, is a stark reminder of the importance of continuing to seek justice for victims even after decades have passed.
00:35:14
Speaker
Then in September 2022, law enforcement got another confession from Billy Mansfield Jr. concerning a case for which they had long suspected his involvement and had been interviewing him about for years. The case of Carol Barrett. Carol Ann Barrett, an 18 year old high school senior from Zanesville, Ohio, was excited to celebrate her upcoming graduation with friends on a spring break trip to Daytona Beach, Florida in March 1980.
00:35:44
Speaker
According to Robin Raven's article for investigation discovery, on March 23, while staying at the Treasure Island Motel, a man forced his way into their room. He robbed them at gunpoint and then abducted Carol. The man first attempted to take one of Carol's friends, but Carol asked him to take her instead.
00:36:06
Speaker
After interviewing Carroll's friends, Daytona Beach police and Jacksonville Sheriff's Office detectives were able to develop a sketch of the suspect. According to Ariel Edie for Fox 35 Orlando, after the confession, police now know the man, Billy Mansfield Jr. drove Carroll over 100 miles north to Jacksonville and murdered her, leaving her body on the side of an Interstate 95.
00:36:33
Speaker
A passerby discovered her body the next day, March 24, 1980. An autopsy determined that her death was a homicide. Although initially the cause of death was unclear, according to Patricia Bolona for News Journal Online, the medical examiner later determined that she had been shot in the back of the head with a small caliber gun.
00:36:55
Speaker
Despite the creation of a police sketch and a thorough investigation, the case eventually went cold, leaving Carroll's family without answers for decades. The case was reopened in 2017 by the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office cold case unit. It was then, in 2020, Billy Mansfield Jr., who would have been 24 years old at the time of the murder, became a suspect. Over the next two years, investigators conducted multiple interviews with Mansfield.
00:37:25
Speaker
In September 2022, he finally confessed to Barrett's kidnapping and murder, admitting that he was the man depicted in the 1980 police sketch.
The Cultural Impact of Mansfield Crimes
00:37:35
Speaker
According to investigation discovery, however, as Mansfield is already serving five life sentences, the Fourth Judicial Circuit's state attorney's office made the decision not to prosecute him for Carol Barrett's murder.
00:37:52
Speaker
Carol's niece, Claire Gilligan, who was only three years old when her aunt was murdered, remembers Carol fondly, recalling stories about how she saved Gilligan's life when she nearly drowned in a pool as a child. According to that same Robin Raven Investigation Discovery article, Claire Gilligan said of her aunt, quote, she jumped in and pulled me out and gave me CPR until the ambulance came. She was a hero multiple times over, end quote.
00:38:22
Speaker
With the case finally solved, Gilligan hopes Carol will be remembered as quote, a loving daughter, sister, friend, someone that you could trust and go to and feel comfortable end quote. The resolution of this decades old case brings a measure of closure to Carol's family, allowing them to remember her not as a victim, but as the loving and heroic person she was in life.
00:38:48
Speaker
Even if no more bodies are located on the Mansfield property, the horrors of the acts we know of still remain, as does the terror this family created. It's that fear, the act of hunting women, the historical disbelief of victims, particularly women, the contrast of perceived safety in the darkness that surrounds us, that Director Warren Skeels hopes to capture,
00:39:13
Speaker
in his film, The Man in the White Van, which is focused on one woman's experience with Billy Mansfield Jr. and is loosely based on the other victims. In a director's biography published in filmfreeway dot.com, Skills notes, quote, when I first learned of the story of Annie and her confrontation with the dark entity she referred to as the man in the white van, I was flooded with memories from my own youth and dumbfounded by the cultural landscape, partially culpable for her not being heard.
00:39:45
Speaker
I connected with her in so many ways. Her childhood recalled the nostalgia of my own as a carefree latchkey kid in Florida. We both shared an interaction with a mysterious vehicle that followed us home from school. But now, as a parent of a 13-year-old girl, the fact that this escalated to tragic proportions for so many daughters absolutely terrifies me.
Film Production and Storytelling
00:40:08
Speaker
As modern parents, we are surrounded by media that constantly reminds us of the terrors that await us outside our front door. But in the 1970s, there was far less salacious fear-mongering in the news. Before the phrase serial killer was coined by an FBI investigator, big cities and television were perceived as the only places where bad things happened. It was simply a different time when evil-minded men could move about in the shadows, undetected by modern technology.
00:40:38
Speaker
and unbeknownst to their victims." end quote Here is director Warren Skeels talking with me about the inspiration for the film, his message, and his craft. The Man in the White Van will be in theaters tomorrow, Friday, December 13, 2024.
00:40:59
Speaker
First of all, thank you for agreeing to this interview. I just wanted to say that I loved the artistry in the film. I think that's something that may be as unexpected in a true crime ah thriller, but your close up camera shots, the angles, the choice to use juxtaposition quite often. Why was it important to include that intellectual artistic component in the film? ah First off, thank you so much for having me, Alison. I'm really excited to chat with you about this. um And I love the fact that you did pick up on the artistry in it. the That was sort of one of the the key ingredients that I really, just as a, you know, as my first directorial scripted feature,
00:41:54
Speaker
um you know, I kind of wanted to make my mark and say what I thought, you know, what I wanted film to be. And so, you know, with ah you know some of my inspirations in terms of suspense, I'm a huge Alfred Hitchcock fan, um you know, Stanley Kubrick and, you know, contemporary like ah Mike Flanagan is just, you know, a god in this realm, so to speak. um So when you say artistry, bringing together artists to work on it. And Gareth Paul Cox, the cinematographer, is a longtime collaborator and a very gifted cinematographer. ah We have a shorthand and I knew that we would be a little under duress as an indie film. So but and i I wanted to make sure that that was a staple of the of expression. So, you know, onboarded Gareth. And then ah we brought on Tiger Curran to handle the costumes. And she just did a absolute exquisite job.
00:42:48
Speaker
um And then Lauren Spalding, I think, is kind of a a personal hero to me because she took such a small budget on the production design side of things. And together with her art director, Kirk, just did a phenomenal job with, I mean, just they were relentless as far as trying to make every environment as um enriched with the texture of the time period. And that was sort of the essence of what I wanted to do was really bring the audience in and develop them with the time period because I felt like as a contemporary, you know, as a contemporary parent or a contemporary audience to go back in that time period and understand the mentality of like the parents and the disbelief and not really, not really
00:43:39
Speaker
getting what was actually happening in this small rural town, that that darkness sort of seeping in and infecting that that area, if you will. I felt in order to get that, we had to like make sure that everybody could be brought back and um sort of live and in that time period and ultimately you know root for Annie you know on her journey in dealing with this you know this terrifying stalker.
00:44:08
Speaker
Well, I think everyone who was involved in this film did a phenomenal job. um I'm so glad that you mentioned all of those who contributed to it because it it it really is. um When I've spoken with other directors before, it's one of those I work in education and they say it takes a village and I know that that filmmaking is exactly the same.
00:44:27
Speaker
yeah Michael Keaton, I know he's kind of quoted as saying that filmmaking is the ultimate team sport and he's not wrong. that's I think I even have him on my website that you know I kind of treat it that way as well because it really is. you know And as a director, you have an idea and a vision for what you want to create. And that's really just kind of the kickoff point, right? Because you have all these other artists and hopefully you know you've you ah you've gone to great lengths to bring on really talented people who are going to be additive to what's happening and they're taking your idea and and and infusing it with theirs and making an idea that's even better when you when you cobble on you know all the different artists involved and the talent and actors and the crew and you know the idea is that you're creating something so much more than just one person's idea or mine.
00:45:15
Speaker
ah Right. What initially drew you to this story or served as inspiration for the film? So I actually was having a I was working on a completely different project about a serial shooter in 2005, 2006 in Arizona known as the serial shooter.
00:45:37
Speaker
And I was having, uh, which is still a project in development, uh, for as a docu-series. And I was talking with a producer, a friend of mine, he was a partner on Siesta Key and he's just kind of said casually, Oh, if you, you know, if you like serial killer stuff, you should talk to my wife. And so I turned to her and she, you know, kind of.
00:46:00
Speaker
ah you know kind of shrugged her her shoulders and um told her story. And ah you know I was like immediately sort of enraptured by it because it was from her POV as a survivor. And it was a serial killer story, but it it wasn't about the serial killer. It wasn't about the MO of the serial killer. And I immediately started seeing, kind of connecting the dots and seeing how this could work.
00:46:24
Speaker
without being a story about a detective tracking down their guy or a journalist, you know, trying to find their story and find the killer. But this was really about one girl's experience, um you know, isolated and ah in a time in which, you know, nobody really sort of so thought this thing was happening. You know, they we look back now and they kind of call it the golden age of serial killers because we were unprepared and and and had It's sort of a disbelief that something this evil could be could happen. And so I really sort of took that POV and ran with it. And, you know, when Sharon Cobb, my writing partner on it, and and I got together on it, we really just wanted to maintain that POV throughout the film. So
Film Themes: Victim Belief and Historical Context
00:47:15
Speaker
if Annie's experience is that she cannot see the serial killer's face, then the audience shouldn't either. They wanted, you know, that
00:47:24
Speaker
that rooting for her and and be rooted with her on her journey. Well, and that fits with what I've seen stated about the film as well, that it's not about the killer, it's about the victims. Correct. And and so with that not showing his face, it always being in the shadow, but we see the faces of the victims. I feel like you you stay true to that.
00:47:49
Speaker
Thank you. Look, this is material that's based on a true story, it's based on real events, and it's also an untold story, but also a story that's still developing. I have a feeling you want to talk about the true crime aspect of this in a little bit. Absolutely, yeah.
00:48:07
Speaker
<unk> details because you know When we I reached out to the detectives, the cold case detectives on the case, not knowing where things stood, I was really dealing with it more from someone's experience in 1975 Florida. and um Side note,
00:48:24
Speaker
She, after her experience with him surviving, she never um saw, real knew his face, or she's seen his face in some capacity. um But nothing really happened at the time. And then it wasn't until seven years later she was going to college.
00:48:42
Speaker
And she saw a newspaper stand and saw the man being you know having been arrested for you know these four four victims in Florida and and another in California, and it just kind of shivered down her spine. Wow. That she had gotten away from this person who she didn't know ultimately how what who they were or what they were really all about, just that you know she had been kind of hunted by them.
00:49:08
Speaker
In thinking about the film itself and in speaking with this woman about her experience, is your do you feel like your message in the film or the theme of it, is it more experiential so you want the audience to feel that kind of culture of fear? I know Stranger Danger happens in the late 70s to feel that, or is it also combined with the importance of listening to and believing victims. What do you see as your message? I think a lot ah the bigger part of the message is really believing victims.
00:49:45
Speaker
um and you know, ah ultimately this is a ah piece of entertainment. This is, and finding the balance between it being a thriller that, you know, audiences can go and enjoy and have a good time. And, you know, hopefully, you know, they leave the theater having, you know, their their hearts raced a little bit. and um But at the same time, um I think if they leave the theater and there is a sense of, you know, we need to believe victims no matter what, no matter you know what is said. And and that it was a different period of time. but And I think we do. I think we do as contemporary parents. And I think that was actually one of the difficult things, I think, for Sean and Allie in approaching their characters as contemporary parents. oh But having to go back 50 years into a mindset in rural Florida where
00:50:37
Speaker
There just wasn't any thought of something like this happening where they lived and breathed. um you know They were a well-to-do family. and um you know, the admittedly the town, ah you know, there's like ah a single deputy, maybe an assistant, you know, deputy there. Admittedly, they, you know, in speaking with them later, yeah said that like, their, their biggest fear or their biggest issue was, you know, getting the town drunk home on a Friday night.
00:51:07
Speaker
ah Right. It wasn't a place in a time where where evil, they felt like evil was lurking. things Bad things happened in the big cities, not where they lived. And, you know, coupled with, you know, there's a little bit of a girl who cried wolf stories. She was by nature the real life you know survivor was a little bit of a storyteller and she fibbed a lot and told tall tales. And so yeah you mix that with sort of a false pride and security and and the safety of of their world and you just sort of get a ah disaster and waiting. Right. Now, a couple of other questions before we get into the the true crime aspect of the film.
00:51:53
Speaker
Obviously there's also that focus in the film on expectations of femininity and gender roles. Why did you feel like that was important to include in the film as well?
00:52:06
Speaker
I think it was a huge part of that particular time period. you know the Her sister who is a, in real life, you know was more feminine than you know Annie was and you know the real life Annie was more of a tomboy and rode horses and kind of juxtaposition of the horses against the man. That was actually a ah a an underlying theme of the mechanical and industry of you know, this, the future as like of this man in a van, this, this, this vehicle, uh, you know, juxtaposed against Annie and her horse, you know, this money like animal nature component. So that was, that was sort of a theme that we did, um, want to kind of fuse the into the script. But, you know, going back to what you're saying, um, you know, like the having her, you know, she's, it was a coming of age story and and just talking with her, you know, the real life Annie.
00:52:59
Speaker
That's kind of where she was. She was really on this precipice of becoming a young lady. And she was sort of wanting to get there in her own place, in her own time. And her sister was, you know, wanted to kind of rush her along and get her there and kind of be a part of, you know, being a young woman. And and that bothered, you know, her to a certain degree.
00:53:18
Speaker
But at the same time, it didn't mean that she didn't like boys and that she wasn't interested in boys. And she had a lot of you know people around her. She was ah actually a cheerleader in real life. And the the girl on her cheerleading team or whatever was ah you know the more experienced girl, if you will. And she kind of remembers you know that all being just really overwhelming. and you know, she just sort of wanted to get there in her own place and time. And I feel like that was something that um I wanted to honor in the film because it's just sort of a beautiful thing when somebody is kind of true to themselves and not trying to rush something along, you know, like like that.
00:53:58
Speaker
And I felt like you take that and juxtapose that against ah you know this dark force that is you know following and then stalking and then hunting her down to and to you know basically rip that from her is it's just terrifying.
00:54:17
Speaker
How did you work with actors like Madison Wolf to really portray that psychological impact of being stalked? Again, I appreciated what you did in the film of, you know, even when she's in her home, which we think of as the the center of safety, he's right outside the window. But how did you work with her to portray that psychological act aspect of it?
00:54:47
Speaker
ah Madison is a very detailed actress and she is really game to jump into kind of the natural given circumstances. And I think that's, I think what really separates her as an actress is her ability to get into the mindset of ah the character. And there's certain things that we did with, you know, camera and angles, but in just in terms of performance,
00:55:08
Speaker
you know we we You know, we just really worked on, you know, we got together in advance and sat down and and and kind of went through the script and found you know what was happening in different moments and really the intention of the scene itself and, you know, kind of her state of being as as a character. and And so, you know, there really wasn't a lot of You know, that's what you love about an actress like Madison because she'll just bring the goods and then you can just sort of make some minor adjustments on the day. yeah So she's, I mean, she's just a joy to work
Blending True Crime with Art
00:55:41
Speaker
with. Getting into the true crime aspect. Obviously this is based on Billy Mansfield Jr. There were some aspects of the film that are true to the story. I noticed it was set in the town of the Mansfield family home.
00:56:00
Speaker
And again, we have the association of that property as a ah house of horrors. You used some of the real life aspects in terms of we know that the Mansfield family, it was generational crime. Billy Mansfield Jr. following in the footsteps in many ways of his father. And you have the one scene where there's again a ah faceless man and he makes a comment. He says, you did good son. And so you get those real life aspects, but I think we should we have some artistic liberties and shifting the timeline of the events. yeah So how do you balance the need for dramatic storytelling with the responsibility involved in
00:56:48
Speaker
telling a story that's based on real life events. What unique challenges does that present? I mean, it it presents a lot of unique challenges, you know, just in general, because you are trying to tell a story with authenticity. You're not trying to. You don't want to change events and make people think that something different happened than than it really did. ah You want to be, you know, it's true to the true aspect of it that you that you need. And then ah And then being able to take some creative freedoms to, you know, to tell ah a story that is meant for entertainment consumption, right? This isn't a documentary. It's not an autobiography. You know, it's a movie. um So what I, yeah the the true crime component of it is
00:57:34
Speaker
that, you know, Annie's story is, it's 80% one woman's account, and then it's ah probably about 20% of another victim's account, and they've been kind of married together to create the fictional character of Annie. In addition to that, you know, we have, there are, I think, five victims that are served to represent the five known victims of Billy Mansfield that he's been incarcerated for.
00:58:01
Speaker
ah and I will say, as a side story, we Sharon and I had identified in doing our research a a victim in 1980 during spring break that had been taken from a hotel in Daytona Beach, Florida, and her body was eventually she was found with a gunshot wound to the head abandoned off of a Jacksonville highway near the airport. And when we're looking at it, looking at the time period, we really just kind of tracked that as something we felt very highly that
00:58:36
Speaker
though Billy Mansfield had never been, you know, ah arrested for that ah or had, you know admitted to that crime, we just felt that it was highly likely that he was responsible for that. It just sort of fit the time period in the of of everything else and kind of his M.O. of what he had done. So we actually paid tribute, that victim's name is Carol Ann Barrett, and we paid tribute to her um with a character we called the Swimmer and ah in our story, and and it's the victim at the motel. And
00:59:12
Speaker
just this past year um in March, ah Billy Mansfield admitted to a Jacksonville detective that he indeed was responsible for the death of Caroline Barrett. Yes. So we were, it was sort of, um it was sort of one of those moments where, you know, you just kind of feel like, I don't know how to describe it. You're, you are both,
00:59:40
Speaker
sort of elated that like you're like, yes, we we knew it. Right. But at the same time, it's also deeply sad because that's the first moment that there is closure for a family. And Caroline Barrett was such an amazing human being. She was in the hotel room with with seven other spring breakers, all friends that came down from Ohio. And you know Mansfield had actually tried to take another girl And the other girl had just broken the tears and was sobbing. And Carol Ann Barrett, the kind of woman, young woman that she was, 18, stood up and said, take me instead. Take me. And not knowing what that result would be. And so he did. And she stood up for her friend and ultimately you know paid the heaviest price one can for that.
01:00:27
Speaker
um her I've spoken since then with her niece who shared a story with how Caroline Barrett had saved her from a drowning incident when she was really young. So it just sounds like you know Carol was sort of an angel in this world, um and certainly you know her life was taken too soon. Right. But neither of her parents, you know her parents had already passed away by the time you know this closure is you know has been found. Now, it sounds like you have done your due diligence in terms of speaking with other victims of Billy Mansfield Jr., of speaking with family members. You mentioned that you had spoken with detectives. what How much research did you put into, I guess, the background of film, even though you know it is for entertainment purposes, like you said, in a future film?
01:01:24
Speaker
That is a great question because you know Sharon and I knew that our POV was really from Annie and her story. So we weren't overly concerned with the serial killer story because we weren't telling his story, right? right We were telling telling his story when it related to time to Annie, except you know except for some cutaways to build tension with the other victims.
01:01:49
Speaker
And it really, and I'd reached out to detectives and, you know, we had done mostly just, you know, newspaper and archival research to, you know, to, to find out more about the, the known victims. And it wasn't until after we, I kind of got strung along a little bit of like, yeah, let's, we want to meet, there are some developments, let's talk, but you know, give us a month. Right. And then eventually we just, we are were in production and, and when we got out of production, we finished cutting the film.
01:02:18
Speaker
I got a call from the cold case detective, a volunteer actually, and said, hey, do you got time to come meet with us? I was like, no great timing, guys. but I'll come sit with you. and And they were like, I mean, we can talk for a few minutes, but you know we they're kind of cagey about things, as as they probably should be. right We sat down at IHOP in Brooksville, in Hernando County, and we ended up spending about three hours there.
01:02:44
Speaker
and what they sort of unpacked to me about what was happening, uh, really sort of ended up for me, you know, being a door that got opened that I was not going to easily close. Um,
Plans for a Docu-Series
01:03:01
Speaker
and it's now put me on the path of developing a docu-series, uh, based on, you know, the Mansfield family. Really? Yes. And, you know,
01:03:14
Speaker
one of the kind of One of the pieces that I found when I really started doing research is you know it's not just Billy Mansfield, right? And you know his father, Bill Mansfield Sr., sort of the root of evil in that family was you know a man who had been arrested and you know prosecuted, incarcerated in Michigan for you know crimes against horrific crimes against young girls and boys and left Michigan and came to Florida to Wiki Wachi in what appears to be sort of like to kind of start anew, right? And when he started anew, like he just began again and eventually, you know, he was arrested for over 40 crimes of sexual you know assault and battery against minors. And he went to prison. He was supposed to go to prison for 30 years and he served 10.
01:04:11
Speaker
He was you know sort of allowed to live out the last 12, 14 years of his life as a you know a grandfather and eventually a great grandfather. And you know I think that to me is sort of an injustice to all of his victims, ah certainly. and then Absolutely. And then he had five sons and a daughter.
01:04:35
Speaker
the you know that Each of those sons have all have criminal backgrounds. um Two have passed away from from drugs, some kind of new drug usage. and But Billy and Gary seem to sort of be the the the kind of leaders, I guess, of the will of of ah the sort of evil things that have happened in that family. He was arrested in California with Billy for the murder of Renee Sailing.
01:05:04
Speaker
by And he played, he pled state's evidence against his brother brother and was sort of released of, of all charges related to that. But he very much was, ah ah you know, there's, there is evidence that I've seen that he is very much involved in, in that, that slang. Well, and you know, even with the, one of his I guess it was his most recent arrest when he tells law enforcement about all the other bodies that are buried on the property. Yeah. you know and That was sort of like, is he just saying that to to try to throw from more you know ah smoke towards Billy? um Because he knows deep down somehow he's there's something. I don't know what it is. And we've been kind of looking for that that line of white as he feels like he's sort of safe from all of all of that.
01:05:57
Speaker
but um you know I don't know that he is. you know What I do know from you know talking with law enforcement is that you know there is a distinct possibility of a lot more potential victims and crimes all ah yeah from here to California. Are you hoping, even with the release of the man in the white van, that we bring public attention back to that case?
01:06:27
Speaker
in itself because, I mean, obviously we're talking about Billy Mansfield as we're talking about your film. Right. and ah Yes. and the And the question, that would be the answer. Yes. Because, you know, I know in talking with her in Nando County, they're a small county. They don't have a lot of funds. I think that they would, you know, they would, you know, I know George Lloyd Grant, he's working cold cases down there. You know, the one thing he sort of passed along in this whole process to me and he said, look, when you're talking about the film,
01:06:56
Speaker
If you can tell people. to register with Ancestry dot dot.com with their DNA. It's it's the single-handedly, it's the the fastest way that we're able to track you know victims to a bloodline and identify who they are. um And they were actually able to, they had four victims in WikiWatch Florida in 1980 that they found on the property, in 1981 eventually they found on the property. And of those four, two were immediately identified
01:07:27
Speaker
One was Eileen Ziegler, which was a 15-year-old girl on kind of a Christmas break, who disappeared on New Year's Eve, 1975. The other was ah Sandra Dream Graham, who went missing from a Tampa bar, and and they were actually looking for her, and she was kind of missing person's report. So when there when they looking at the property, they were searching for her body, and they found they found three others before they found her.
Challenges and Advances in Investigation
01:07:54
Speaker
And because of that, they stopped digging because ah two of the bodies were a Jane Doe and a Mary Doe. They did not identify them at the time. And they didn't continue digging because it's just so expensive and they didn't have any reason to dig because there wasn't anybody else they were looking for, if that makes sense. And so they sort of have cause and reason to to continue digging up as, you know,
01:08:20
Speaker
property, right? So it wasn't until two years ago, and this was one of the things that they told me when we were meeting, they were like, you know the next six months, we're going to have an answer for one of those bodies of the property. And one of the and six months later, they did. it was And they called a woman in Boca Raton, a woman named Margaret Johns, and they asked her if she had ever had a family member go missing.
01:08:46
Speaker
And because they attract her from you know ah forensic anthropology and the work of Dr. Erin Kimberly at USF, who's just um im a rock star and in the society industry. And she said, yeah. She said, 1980, my 16-year-old sister Teresa went missing from, you know we were living in Tampa out of a hotel at the time, and she went for a job interview, and I never saw her again.
01:09:09
Speaker
um And as it turns out, she had gone to the Tampa police to file a missing persons report, but they asked her if she had ever run away. And she said that she had run away and, you know, ended up with their, their father, I guess they were divorced, um, the parents and the police at the time just said, okay, well, we're, then we can't, you know, we can't file a missing persons report if she's like a known, like runaway or right.
01:09:35
Speaker
So all those things have changed since then, which is, it's just sort of, you know, the, it's a different time. and And, and it was really sad because she was, because they didn't have a missing person's report, because nobody was looking for Teresa filling him. When they found her body in Tampa, nobody was looking for her and she remained unidentified for almost 50 years.
01:09:58
Speaker
Uh, there is still a Mary Doe on the property that is unidentified. And my, my hope is, you know, in working on this docu series and working with law enforcement and, um, you know, the powers that be that, you know, they'll, there'll be enough attention sort of, you know, kind of brought to this to not only identify her and find closure for her family, but, uh, also.
Public Awareness and Collaboration
01:10:22
Speaker
I think we're going to uncover you know other victims elsewhere you know and and be able to find closure hopefully for their for them as well. Well, I appreciate what you're doing because I know coming from the the true crime podcast world and working directly with families, any outside help to bring attention to these cases is so, so important um because you know families have limited power, they have limited reach.
01:10:52
Speaker
And just having someone be a voice alongside them is so, so important. Absolutely. And, you know, and I should say that, you know, we dedicate the film at the very end to Nick Beck, the National Center Exploited and Missing Children. And, you know, I've also been recently working with ah Project Cold Case in Jacksonville and, you know, interviewed Ryan Bachman, who was part of the work to you know figure out and and and pick up the pieces for the, you know, the Carol Barrett story, which you know, eventually went over to JSO, the Jackson Sheriff's office who eventually went out and talked a few different times with Billy Mansfield. And eventually he confessed to that crime. So they do a phenomenal work. It's pretty thankless and, um, and much needed. So there, I feel like they're the ones doing the real work out there. Well, one final question, Warren, and this is a big one. So in terms of the impact that you or the legacy that you hope to leave,
01:11:52
Speaker
What kind of legacy do you want to have? I know you've had lots of different projects of a variety of medium. You've done docu-series, television series, this feature film. What kind of legacy do you hope to leave as a director? Well, it's a great question. And I i think ultimately, you know as a director, I just want to tell stories that mean something, ultimately.
01:12:22
Speaker
you know I think there's a lot of product out there. you know They talk about content in general, and and that usually has like you know less of a shelf life. So you know I hope that I'm able to create you know art that is something that can you know transcend time, hopefully, and and has a shelf life to it. And it it means something and resonates with people.
01:12:47
Speaker
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01:13:17
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.